>> CATHY: CAN GOVERNOR WALZ BECOME THE STATE'S FIRST GOVERNOR TO SERVE THREE FULL TERMS?

WHO KNOWS?

BUT OUR PANEL OF FORMER LAWMAKERS WILL HAVE THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT, ALSO SOME THOUGHTS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT NEW GUN CONTROL MEASURES ARE POSSIBLE AND NEWS THAT LONG-SERVING STATE SENATOR ANN REST HAS ANNOUNCED SHE IS RETIRING AT THE END OF THE NEXT LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

LET'S DIVE RIGHT IN.

ON THE COUCH TONIGHT, DEMOCRAT AND FORMER MINNESOTA HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER RYAN WINKLER.

HE'S JOINED BY FELLOW DEMOCRAT AND FORMER STATE SENATOR JEFF HAYDEN.

REPUBLICANS TONIGHT ARE FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER KURT DAUDT AND FORMER STATE REPRESENTATIVE PAT GAROFALO.

SENATOR HAYDEN, GOVERNOR'S HAVING HIS CAMPAIGN KICKOFF TONIGHT, FRIDAY NIGHT, IN DOWNTOWN MINNEAPOLIS.

YEAH.

AND TONIGHT KSTP AND SURVEY U.S.A.

CAME OUT WITH A POLL THAT SHOWS THAT 47% OF MINNESOTANS APPROVE OF THE GOVERNOR'S JOB PERFORMANCE AND 47% DISAPPROVE.

BUT THAT'S THE LOWEST JOB APPROVAL NUMBERS HE'S AD IN ABOUT FOUR YEARS.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, THE GOVERNOR'S HAD KIND OF A TOUGH YEAR AND HE'S CERTAINLY HAD A TOUGH COUPLE OF MONTHS.

AND I DON'T KNOW WHEN THEY TOOK THE SURVEY.

BUT I THINK HE'S COMMITTED TO MAKING THE STATE BETTER.

BUT THIS ISSUE OF FRAUD AND SOME OF THESE OTHER ISSUES, I THINK ARE PROBABLY WEARING ON HIS JOB APPROVAL.

>> Cathy: I TALKED TO HIM THIS MORNING, SPEAKER DAUDT, AND WE'VE TALKED A LOT ABOUT FRAUD.

>> YEAH.

>> Cathy: AND HE SAID THERE WILL BE MORE CASES OF FRAUD TO COME OUT IN THE OPEN.

BUT HE SAYS EASES DOING ALL HE CAN TO TAMP THAT DOWN.

>> WELL, I THINK HIM SAYING HE'S DOING ALL HE CAN IS THE PROBLEM, RIGHT?

HE'S NOT AND HE HASN'T.

AND, REALLY, THERE'S BEEN ZERO OVERSIGHT OF THE FRAUD.

THERE'S BEEN MORE FRAUD UNDER THIS GOVERNOR THAN UNDER ANY OTHER GOVERNOR IN ANY OTHER STATE IN THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY.

THIS IS BEYOND AN EPIDEMIC.

AND I THINK TAXPAYERS CAN FIGURE OUT THAT WHEN YOU ANNOUNCE RE-ELECTION ON A TUESDAY, AND PUT OUT A PRESS RELEASE THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE TOUGH ON FRAUD ON WEDNESDAY, THAT THAT'S NOT REAL.

>> Eric: YOU KNOW, TO EXTEND THE LIFE OF A PRODUCT, ADVERTISERS WILL SAY, IT'S NEW AND IMPROVED.

AND I WONDER, DOES THAT FIT ANYWHERE INTO THE GOVERNOR'S PROJECTION FOR A CAMPAIGN?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I THINK POLL NUMBERS RIGHT NOW MAYBE EXPRESS SOME SKEPTICISM FROM VOTERS THAT THE GOVERNOR SHOULD RUN FOR A THIRD TERM, WE'VE SEEN SOME VARIATION, I THINK THAT TIM WALZ HAS THE ENERGY, DEDICATION, PASSION TO SHOW VOTERS WHAT WOULD BE DIFFERENT OR WHAT WOULD BE BETTER IN A THIRD TERM.

I THINK WE'RE JUST GETTING STARTED.

AND I THINK HE CERTAINLY HAS THE ABILITY TO CONVINCE MINNESOTANS THAT HE'S GOT THE ENERGY TO DO THE JOB AND REALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

>> Eric: YOU'RE RUNNING AGAINST SOMEBODY, YOU KNOW.

IF YOU'RE AN INCUMBENT -- >> ME?

>> Eric: IF YOU'RE A GOVERNOR LOOKING FOR A THIRD TERM, YOU'RE RUNNING AGAINST SOMEBODY.

AND DOES HE STACK UP BETTER WITH WHATEVER THE REPUBLICANS ARE PUTTING FORWARD AS A CANDIDATE OR CANDIDATES?

>> WELL, I MEAN, WHEN YOU'VE RUN AND YOU'VE BEEN IN OFFICE -- FIRST OF ALL, ERIC, CATHY, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON.

>> Eric: YOU'RE WELCOME.

>> THAT WHEN YOU'VE BEEN IN OFFICE FOR EIGHT YEARS, T'S REALLY TOUGH TO MAKE THE CASE THAT THE THINGS YOU HAVEN'T GOTTEN DONE REQUIRE ANOTHER FOUR YEARS.

>> Eric: WE'RE NOT DONE YET WAS PART OF THE VIDEO.

>> RIGHT.

BUT I THINK THE MOST LIKELY SITUATION WE'RE GOING TO SEE IS THAT TIM WALZ, HE'S GOING TO BE RUNNING AGAINST DONALD TRUMP.

THAT'S WHO HE'S GOING TO RUN AGAINST.

HE'S NOT GOING TO RUN AGAINST HIS REPUBLICAN OPPONENT.

ANY TIME WE HAVE STUFF LIKE FRAUD COMING UP OR THE $18 BILLION SURPLUS COMING UP OR OTHER ISSUES THAT WERE EXPOSED ON HIS CAMPAIGN FOR VICE PRESIDENT, HE'S GOING TO PIVOT BACK TO REMIND LEFT-LEANING VOTERS THAT IF YOU VOTE FOR A REPUBLICAN, YOU'RE VOTING FOR DONALD TRUMP.

AND THAT'S GOING TO BRING A VISCERAL REACTION.

NOW, THAT'S NOT GOING TO HELP BRING MINNESOTANS TOGETHER.

IT'S NOT GOING TO IMPROVE GOVERNANCE.

BUT IT VERY WELL MAY BE AN EFFECTIVE POLITICAL STRATEGY.

WE JUST DON'T KNOW.

>> Cathy: I WON DER WILL THERE BE ANY OTHER NEW NAMES TO SURFACE ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE OF THINGS TO RUN AGAINST TIM WALZ?

>> I WOULD THINK NOW THAT WE KNOW TIM WALZ IS RUNNING FOR A THIRD TERM, YOU LIKELY COULD SEE SOME ADDITIONAL PEOPLE COME FORWARD.

I THINK THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE WAITING TO FIND OUT, AM I RUNNING AGAINST TIM WALZ OR IS THIS RUMOR ABOUT AMY KLOBUCHAR TRUE?

RIGHT?

BECAUSE THOSE ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WORLDS.

SO I THINK IT'S ENTIRELY POSSIBLE.

>> AND FROM THE REPUBLICAN PERSPECTIVE, IF YOU LOOK AT THE U.S.

SENATE RACE RIGHT NOW, YOU'VE SEEN A RELUCTANT BY MANY PEOPLE TO RUN, BECAUSE THEY IKE THE IDEA OF POSSIBLY RUNNING AGAINST LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR PEGGY FLANAGAN.

THEY DO NOT LIKE THE IDEA OF RUNNING AGAINST CONGRESSWOMAN ANGIE CRAIG.

AND BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO LET THEIR POLITICAL FORTUNES HANG ON WHO'S GOING TO WIN A PRIMARY, THAT'S KEPT REPUBLICANS AWAY FROM IT.

NOW THAT WE KNOW THAT GOVERNOR WALZ IS GOING TO BE THE NOMINEE, NOW WE'RE GOING TO SEE HOW -- YOU KNOW, IT'S THE REPUBLICANS' TURN TO SEE WHO'S GOING TO RUN.

AND I THINK YOU'LL SEE OTHER NAMES COME FORWARD.

MY OPINION IS, RIGHT NOW, KRISTIN ROBBINS IS PROBABLY THE FRONTRUNNER, NOT FOR THE ENDORSEMENT, BUT PROBABLY IN A PRIMARY.

BUT VERY WELL COULD BE OTHER CANDIDATES WHO GET IN.

THAT'S THE THING ABOUT MINNESOTA POLITICS.

UNDERSTAND THIS, THAT NATIONWIDE, IN THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS, THERE'S ALWAYS ONE GOVERNOR'S RACE THAT GETS NATIONALIZED.

THAT HAS THE MOST ATTENTION, MOST MONEY.

AND YOU JUST DON'T HAVE VERY MANY COMPETITIVE STATES ANYMORE.

ASSUMING THAT GOVERNOR WALZ IS THE NOMINEE AND ASSUMING THAT REPUBLICANS PUT FORWARD A TIER ONE CANDIDATE, THE PREMIER GOVERNORSHIP RACE IN THE NATION IS GOING TO BE THE MINNESOTA GOVERNOR'S RACE.

>> Eric: SENATOR, YOU DO A LOT OF INGLING WITH LEGISLATORS, EVEN IN THE OFF SEASON.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> Eric: I'M WONDERING HOW EXCITED PEOPLE ARE FOR A SPECIAL SESSION IF THERE'S NO PREAGREEMENT, WORRIED ABOUT CAPITOL SAFETY, TAKING TIME AWAY FROM THEIR FAMILY FOR NO APPARENT REASON IF THEY CAN'T PASS SOMETHING?

>> YEAH, I DON'T THINK THAT THERE IS A GREAT INKLING TO GET INTO A SPECIAL SESSION, FIRST OF ALL, THEY DON'T HAVE THE FULL COMPLEMENT OF FOLKS, BECAUSE WE'RE STILL ROLLING ON WITH THESE SPECIAL ELECTIONS.

BUT WHAT I DO LIKE IS WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS THESE WORKGROUPS.

AND THEY CAN DO THAT.

SO WE JUST -- YOU JUST SHOWED ALL OF THE FOOTAGE OF THE GUN -- OR THE SCHOOL SHOOTING WORKGROUP.

I THINK THERE'S A CAPITOL SECURITY WORKGROUP.

SO I DO THINK THAT LEGISLATORS ARE READY TO COME TOGETHER TO START GETTING SOME WORK DONE.

AND THEN BE EADY IN FEBRUARY TO START FIGURING OUT WHAT THEY CAN AGREE UPON.

>> Eric: BUT THE GOVERNOR WANTS VERYBODY ON THE RECORD, I THINK IS WHAT HE SAID, WHETHER SOMETHING PASSES R NOT.

>> WELL, THAT'S ALWAYS THE ISSUE IN A LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

DO YOU WANT TO GO FOR THE BIG, YOU KNOW, THE BIG ACCOMPLISHMENT AND F IT FALLS SHORT, BLAME HE OTHER SIDE?

OR DO YOU WANT TO TRY TO ACCOMPLISH SOMETHING AND GO HOME WITH A SMALLER WIN?

USUALLY AT THE LEGISLATURE IT'S BETTER TO TAKE A REAL WIN THAN IT IS TO MAKE A POLITICAL POINT.

>> I STILL MAINTAIN THAT THERE'S NO CHANCE HE'S CALLING A SPECIAL SESSION.

AND THERE NEVER WAS.

I THINK HE'S ONLY TRYING TO GET THE MEDIA OFF OF THE FRAUD ISSUE.

WHICH HE'S MODERATELY DONE SUCCESSFULLY.

BUT PEOPLE AREN'T GOING TO FORGET ABOUT THE FRAUD.

AND THE REALITY IS, ON THE GUN CONTROL STUFF, THE VOTES AREN'T THERE.

AND THE REALITY IS, ON THE ISSUE, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO FIX.

IF THERE'S 44 MILLION ASSAULT-STYLE WEAPONS OUT THERE ALREADY IN THE COUNTRY, BANNING THE SALE OF NEW ONES DOESN'T GET THE OLD ONES.

AND, YOU KNOW, I MADE THE CASE A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO THAT THERE'S REALLY NO DIFFERENCE, OTHER THAN THE APPEARANCE BETWEEN AN ASSAULT-STYLE RIFLE AND 95% OF ALL FIREARMS SOLD, INCLUDING ALL FIREARMS USED FOR HUNTING.

>> THERE IS PROBABLY A LIMIT ABOUT WHAT CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS AND IN THE NEXT YEAR.

BUT IF THERE ISN'T A SUSTAINED EFFORT OVER A PERIOD OF FIVE YEARS OR TEN YEARS TO START TO CHANGE THE CULTURE AND THE EXPECTATIONS ABOUT WHAT KIND OF WEAPONS CAN BE FREELY BOUGHT AND SOLD, IN CITIES AND SMALL TOWNS ROUND THE STATE AND AROUND THE COUNTRY, WE'RE NEVER GOING TO PUT A LID ON THIS.

WE'RE NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO ADDRESS SAFETY.

SO IT HAS TO START SERIOUSLY SOMETIME, AND IF IT'S NOT GOING TO START NOW IN MINNESOTA, I DON'T KNOW WHEN IT EVER WOULD.

>> RYAN, YOU BRING UP THIS POINT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WE WERE TALKING BEFOREHAND, ALL OF US, ALL OF US ARE EXPERIENCED LEGISLATORS, YOU KNOW, ALL OF US HAVE BEEN HAPPY TO DROP OUR GLOVES AND ENGAGE IN THE RHETORICAL FIGHT.

YOU KNOW?

AND DO THOSE THINGS.

BUT THIS SEEMS LIKE PARTICULARLY DANGEROUS TIME RIGHT NOW.

NOT ONLY IN MINNESOTA BUT IN AMERICA.

AND I RECOGNIZE THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE LEADERS, THE PEOPLE WHO RIGHT NOW SHOULD BE SAYING, WE NEED TO TURN DOWN THE VOLUME AND CALM DOWN, AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL AND TO A CERTAIN DEGREE IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA, THEY'RE NOT DOING THAT.

AND LIKE WE CAN COMPLAIN ABOUT THAT, BUT THE IMPORTANT THING IS, ALL OF US NEED TO DO MORE JUST TO, AGAIN, WE CAN HAVE OUR DIFFERENCES, WE CAN FIGHT ABOUT STUFF, VERBALLY, VIOLENCE IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

AND WE REALLY REALLY NEED LEADERSHIP THAT'S CALMING PEOPLE DOWN.

THIS IS NOT -- THIS IS NOT SUSTAINABLE AND IT'S NOT GOOD.

REGARDLESS F THE POLICY DEBATES THAT ARE TAKING PLACE.

>> Cathy: YOU KNOW, BEFORE WE GO, WE SHOULD PROBABLY TALK ABOUT SENATOR REST DECIDING NOT TO RUN FOR RE-ELECTION.

SHE'S BEEN AROUND FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

>> SHE HAS.

>> Cathy: I'M SURE PROBABLY -- WELL, SHE WAS ON THE SSASSIN'S HIT LIST.

>> YES.

>> Cathy: THAT WOULD SCARE THE DAYLIGHTS OUT OF ANYBODY.

>> THEY WENT BY HER HOUSE.

SENATOR REST, I SERVED WITH HER A LOT, SHE WAS CERTAINLY A MENTOR ON A LOT OF ISSUES, AND SHE WAS QUICK TO TELL ME WHEN I WAS WRONG.

[ Laughter ] LIKE THAT'S THE DUMBEST THING I EVER HEARD OF IN MY LIFE, SHE PROBABLY TOLD ME THAT MORE THAN ONE TIME.

HOWEVER, SHE WAS POWERFUL, SHE WAS SMART, SHE WAS -- SHE IS A LEADER.

AND I THINK THAT -- I DO LIKE THE IDEA THAT SENATOR REST IS GOING OUT KIND OF ON HER OWN TERMS AND SHE CAN GET HER FLOWERS.

THAT HAPPENED FOR ME FROM MY PREDECESSOR, SENATOR BERGLIN AND OTHERS.

I THINK THAT THAT'S A REALLY NICE WAY FOR A PHENOMENAL LEGISLATIVE CAREER.

>> Eric: ONLY LEGISLATOR TO CHAIR THE TAX COMMITTEE IN BOTH CHAMBERS.

>> Cathy: THAT'S RIGHT.

>> INTERESTING.

>> THAT EXPERIENCE MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE AT CERTAIN POINTS, ESPECIALLY TO NEGOTIATING AT THE END OF SESSION.

>> Eric: THERE WILL BE SOME DOMINOES FALLING NOW IN YOUR DISTRICT.

>> IT TURNS OUT THE HOUSE DISTRICT I LIVE IN IS GOING TO BE OPEN.

>> THIRD TIME'S THE CHARM.

[ Laughter ] >> I THOUGHT IT WAS CHARMING EVERY TIME.

[ Laughter ] >> Eric: ARE YOU MAKING AN ANNOUNCEMENT TONIGHT?

>> NO, I'M NOT MAKING AN ANNOUNCEMENT TONIGHT.

>> Cathy: BUT YOU'RE LOOKING AT RUNNING?

>> ERIC, I'M CONSIDERING MOVING TO THE DISTRICT TO RUN AGAINST RYAN.

[ OVERLAPPING CONVERSATION ] >> IF YOU NEED A DOWN PAYMENT, LET ME KNOW.

>> RIGHT NOW MY WIFE IS WATCHING, HE JUST SAID WHAT?

>> Eric: REMEMBER NOW THAT DONALD TRUMP ONLY LOST MINNESOTA BY FOUR PERCENTAGE POINTS.

>> YEAH.

>> YEAH.

>> Eric: SO -- >> YEAH, I MEAN, GREP -- AGAIN, AT THE END OF THE DAY, THIS IS GOING TO BE COMPETING NARRATIVES.

>> YEAH.

>> GOING INTO NEXT YEAR.

ONE SIDE IS GOING TO WANT PEOPLE TO FOCUS ON DONALD TRUMP, THE OTHER SIDE IS GOING TO FOCUS ON WHAT HAS BEEN A DECAYING GOVERNANCE AND ACCOUNTABILITY.

>> Eric: THANKS FOR SHARING YOUR EXPERTISE.

>> Cathy: GOOD TO HAVE YOU ALL.