- [Announcer] This is a production of PBS Charlotte.

(soft string music) This week on "Unspun," four more years.

President Trump takes his oath of office and lays out his plans for the second Trump administration.

Will it be more of what we've seen before?

Or is Trump 2.0 his chance to reset the agenda and reunite a nation divided?

Also the first wave of executive orders and presidential pardons.

Plus, we'll count down the top five things to do differently in a second term.

In today's America, welcome to the spin game.

Believe me, I know, I'm Pat McCrory.

When I was governor and mayor, I played the spin game.

I was played by the spin game.

But aren't we all done being spun?

Let's take the spin out of the world we're in here on "Unspun."

(dramatic music) Good evening, I'm Pat McCrory, and welcome to "Unspun," the show that tells you what politicians are thinking but not saying.

You know, while watching the president's inaugural address, I was also watching the inauguration crowd, trying to see who was standing up to cheer and who wasn't.

Because Inauguration Day is sort of like a giant game of musical chairs with a lot of people losing their seats.

- The Golden Age of America begins right now.

(audience applauds) - Yep, it starts with the inauguration ceremony itself.

Who gets invited and who doesn't?

And, this year, because the inauguration was moved indoors due to cold weather, there were a lot of fewer actual seats to begin with, leaving a lot of would-be VIPs literally out in the cold.

At the White House, the Democrats, all the way up to President Biden and Vice President Harris, also gave up their political seats on Inauguration Day.

That's how it works in Washington.

Inauguration Day for the winners is also moving day for the losers.

And there are no guarantees in musical chairs, not even for Republicans.

Just to look to see how different the second Trump White House looks compared to the first Trump White House.

There's a lot of new faces taking the places of former VPs, former staffers, or White House wannabes who hoped they'd have a job this time around but instead they had the chair yanked out from under them.

That's just how the game is played.

When the music stops, when the election is over, you either take a seat or you take a walk.

Joining us now to talk about the inauguration behind the scenes and the new Trump White House is former White House Correspondent Chuck Todd.

He's the Chief Political Analyst for NBC News and the former host of "Meet the Press," who also covered the president during the Obama years.

Chuck, welcome back to "Unspun."

It's great to have you on the show.

- Great to be here, Pat.

Good to see you.

- So behind the scenes with both your media friends and with your political friends inside the Beltway, is Trump 2.0 any different than Trump 1?

- Oh, I think it's a lot different in this respect.

Trump 1.0 doesn't feel lost.

He was a guy that felt a little bit lost in his first term.

The only person more surprised that he became president than most of the country was him, right?

So everything was new to him.

He was learning, and, frankly, he was surrounded by people who treated him like a teenager, that he didn't know what he was doing, and you had to protect him from himself.

Trump 2.0 doesn't have anybody that's playing the role of Mike Pence or Reince Priebus who were quietly trying to surround Trump with people who will keep him from doing, from following his id or his instinct.

That's, to me, the big difference between Trump 1 and Trump 2 is he's doing what he wants, and this time the staff doesn't stress about it.

- He seems to have a much younger staff, except for his chief of staff.

All his new cabinet appointments tend to be much younger, a different generation.

In fact, even two generations.

- Yeah.

- Do you think that means they'll not push back at him when they need to, or what will that relationship be?

- Well, I look at it this way, Pat.

It's how did these people attain power, right?

And you enact power by how you attain it.

And all of these younger folks attained it by essentially playing the patronage game.

Now, we don't call it patronage anymore, but when I say the patronage game, which means, "Hey, I'm on your team.

"I'll do whatever you ask me to do "if this is what gets me a job."

My point is this.

You have now an entire sort of generation of, certainly, Republicans who have now succeeded playing that game.

You have a whole other part of the party, and I throw people like yourself in there, who sort of moved their way up the ladder differently, and they're the ones that have been left out, right?

They're the ones that have been cut out.

And the question I have is, does this create, you know, do we sort of go backwards here, right?

Look, arguably all the way through FDR, this is the way government worked, right?

Which is the winning party handed out all the jobs.

- [Pat] Yeah.

- And if you weren't on the winning side, you lost your job.

And we had sort of moved into a different direction there, and now we're going there.

So I think that's the big difference.

And these are folks...

When you get your job via patronage, I think the oath matters less.

- Who is the opposition with the Democratic Party?

You've got Biden, Pelosi.

- That's a great question.

- Another older group that's basically phasing out.

- Right.

- Who is the voice of the Democratic Party?

- I don't think there is one yet.

I think Hakeem Jeffries is in the best position to be the de facto leader.

He's at least of a new generation.

I think Chuck Schumer, I think Democrats made a mistake keeping him around.

No, this isn't a personal shot at Chuck Schumer, but he's closer to 80 than he is... You know, he's sort of an aging out boomer.

And the Democrats do need a new group of leaders.

I think they're still looking for it.

This really is... Pat, in our lifetime, the last time the Democrats were this sort of leaderless was 1989.

You know, they had the Speaker of the House, Tom Foley, they had the Senate majority back then in George Mitchell, but nobody was really in charge.

And a couple years later, a governor from Arkansas showed up and took control of the party.

That's likely what's happening right now, is that basically we're in a, there's a contest going on to see who's going to become the leader of the party.

And we really won't know it, let's be honest, until '27, '28 when the presidential race begins.

- Well, another thing that's changed is the media, which you have a lot of expertise on.

During Trump's first term, Rush Limbaugh was the big star.

- Right, and now it's Joe Rogan.

- Joe Rogan.

How has the media changed, and how's that gonna change the covering of Donald Trump?

- Well, I think the issue is, it's less about the coverage of Donald.

There's never been more thorough coverage of Donald Trump if you know how to receive a wide variety of media outlets.

I've learned how to do that, I know you've learned how to do that, Pat.

But not a lot of people have.

So if you only consume sort of your political flavor of news, you know, if you're on one side of the aisle, you may not even know he pardoned the January 6th folks.

If you're on the other side of the aisle, you may not realize what he said about Russia, that he actually is getting tough on Russia when it comes to Ukraine.

So the point is that I think what's really changed is how people consume media.

And so there isn't gonna be one dominant, right?

The White House wants to choose its own media landscape, and they're gonna try, right?

And they're gonna talk to one sector of folks.

The question is gonna be, what is going to be the alternative media that captures, you know... As I always say, you know, if you're not red or blue, who governs for you?

And I don't know the answer to that right now.

And I think that, you know, trust me, I hear from these people, you hear from these people going, "Man, I just don't know where to go."

And, you know, this is why I've spent the last year learning a lot more about what's wrong with local news.

Because if we don't fix local news, national news doesn't have a chance at winning back credibility.

- So I was watching the three cable networks while Trump this week was giving a 35-minute press conference in the White House after signing a few more executive orders.

35 minutes off the cuff.

Fox played it, MSNBC and CNN didn't play it.

I didn't check the other types of cable networks.

Is this gonna change how... Cable network news gotta make some tough decisions here.

- Yeah, look, I think cable news is already dead.

It just doesn't know it yet, you know?

It's like talk radio.

Talk radio has been dead for 30 years, but there's still some people that get an audience, and there's still some money to be made.

Cable news is the same way.

I think we continue to believe cable news is sort of more front and center in people's lives, and it certainly clouds the perception of how the public perceives the media.

But, my goodness, you don't even have a million people watching CNN on any given moment.

Ditto with MS. And maybe a couple million on Fox.

I mean, this is literally 0.0001% of the country's getting their news this way.

But we act as if it's more of a, and it certainly can have an impact on how smaller outlets cover things, but I think less so than ever.

And, look, I think it's a huge mistake.

It all depends on what you are, right?

If you believe you're a news organization, then you should have carried the Trump press conference live.

If you believe you are a political arm of something, of a movement, well, then you're making a decision based on that.

I always said I'm stuck covering politics as it is 'cause that was my job at "Meet the Press."

Not politics as I wish it were.

And I do think all three cable channels only cover politics as they want it to be, not what's actually happening.

- All right, in the remaining minute we have here, some predictions, media predictions and political predictions.

One is, who's the first Trump leading person who works for him now or is gonna work for him who won't last?

- Oh, that's easy.

It's the first one that got confirmed, Marco Rubio.

Right, when you think about it, who's the most conventional?

I say this because they just don't share the same world view.

- The new Secretary of State.

- Right.

And we saw what happened with Rex Tillerson.

You know, do I think Rubio will not challenge him as much as Tillerson did at first?

I do.

But, you know, there's already MAGA skepticism of Rubio going in, right?

So, you know... And perhaps he will be able to, you know, suck up to him enough and it'll be okay.

- Well, with the Middle East and Ukraine, it's gonna be a tough job to hang on to if it doesn't go the way President Trump promised.

- He's gonna be the scapegoat, right?

It ain't gonna be Trump.

- All right, who's the unknown new person arising from the Democratic Party that we haven't heard of that is gonna be a new face of the Democratic Party?

- Oh, wow.

That is a much tougher thing.

Here's what I'll say.

I think there is going to be an election of a governor of a fairly large state that will not be a member of either the Democrats or the Republicans.

- [Pat] Wow.

- Could be Mike Duggan in Detroit.

You know, he's running as an independent in Michigan.

Maybe it's Mr. Morgan & Morgan, John Morgan in Florida, who's thinking about running as an independent.

I do believe, in an era of transactional politics, which is, when people ask me, what is the Trump era really about, right?

For the Republican Party, I think it's turning into a kleptocracy.

I've said this before and I think it's pretty obvious now.

But what it really means is voters are gonna say, "All right, character doesn't count?

Fine.

"Then it's transactional."

And I actually think the most effective way to navigate this, if you're a voter that is frustrated by the partisanship, is to go find independent leaders and independent media.

And I do think that's where we're headed.

- We're gonna follow up in a couple months on your predictions, especially about the new Secretary of State.

It's great having you back at "Unspun."

- Appreciate it, Pat.

- Thanks so much.

Next up, PBS Charlotte's Jeff Sonier takes "Unspun" on the street for more views on the new Trump White House.

- Yeah, it's like the old song says, meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

We're back here at Douglas Airport asking travelers what they think about President Trump's first few days.

- [John] That I will faithfully execute.

- That I will faithfully execute.

- [John] The office of President of the United States.

- The office of President of the United States.

- Well, I think it's just now time for each one of the individual players in his whole administration to get to work.

I went into the thing thinking that if he could accomplish half of what he said he wanted to accomplish through his term in office, that I'd be happy.

He's gonna do a bunch.

'Cause those executive orders here are really an excellent start.

- I guess I'm more looking forward to seeing some of the things that he said come true.

Because fuel is high, groceries are high, and the cost of living is very expensive right now for everybody.

- To defeat what was record inflation and rapidly bring down costs and prices.

- [Jeff] Is there anything you heard you didn't like?

- I didn't like the fact that he talked about the past and the past administration.

I thought we should move past that and go for more what's going on in the future and what he's gonna do versus what they didn't do.

- I want the best for the country at the end of the day.

I don't agree with all of his political choices, I don't agree with all of his personal choices, but I'd never want to hope that a presidential administration fails.

Because that's bad for the entire country.

You know, I'm aware that half the country hates him and half the country loves him.

But I don't think there's going to be as much pushback if he just takes a second and evaluates a plan to move forward as a country.

- Yeah, and what we're fighting is that even the doubters are willing to give President Trump the benefit of that doubt.

At least for now.

Pat?

- Thanks, Jeff.

So what do you think about the new boss who used to be the old boss?

Email us your thoughts on Trump's next four years to unspun@wtvi.org.

(dramatic music) Tonight on our "Unspun" Countdown.

The top five things one-term governors and presidents would do differently in a second term that they won't admit to the public.

Let's start out with number five.

Number five, clean house quickly from past administration.

You know, one mistake I made, I kept a lot of previous administration from the Perdue administration much longer than I should have.

You notice Trump, he's getting rid of the Biden people as quick as possible, probably within the next two weeks.

Number four, deal with the controversial issues during your brief honeymoon period.

Donald Trump is actually introducing some extremely controversial pardons.

He did it on his first day hoping after one week the public will forget.

Let's go to number three.

Limit exposure to opposition media.

You know, one thing politicians' ego always do.

They think they can convince the opposition media to become their friends.

Believe me, it never works.

Stick with the media that loves you, and I think that's what Trump's gonna do.

Number two, reduce the number of objectives.

Too many objectives that you set for your administration, you'll have too many failures.

Stick with one, two, or three.

Beyond that, forget it.

It won't work.

And, number one, don't hold back.

There's no third term in presidential politics.

(dramatic music) PBS Charlotte's Jeff Sonier joins me now for "Unspun" 1-on-1.

- So much to talk about this week.

- Just a tad.

- I got the questions.

You've gotta come up with the answers.

That's why we call it 1-on-1.

And I wanna start with all those executive orders that the president signed.

Not just what he signed but how he signed them.

Let's take a look at a clip, and then I've got some questions for you.

- [Moderator] The first item that President Trump is signing is the rescission of 78 Biden-era executive actions, executive orders, presidential memoranda, and others.

(crowd cheers) - [Moderator] Thank you, sir.

(crowd cheers) - Okay, so it's a photo op, obviously, but... - He breaks all the norms and rules.

- Exactly.

Now, that's my question.

- The pen itself.

- Yeah, is this just another photo op, or does having a crowd cheering behind you kind of change the public's perception of what you're signing, maybe gets you more support?

- It was a brilliant PR move.

It reminds me of Reagan giving speeches in front of the Statue of Liberty.

And you gotta remember the whole inauguration was moved inside, so he had to do something different.

So whoever came up with that idea ought to be applauded because it's appealing to the people who sat out in the cold weather just trying to get a seat into the arena in Washington, D.C.

But he broke all the rules.

All governors and mayors and and presidents have always signed things in the Oval Office.

And, you know, a few exceptions out at parks, federal parks and land and so forth.

I did some state park signing.

But in front of a crowd on Inauguration Day?

That's unheard of.

- I was watching the coverage on ABC live.

It was like almost 10 minutes worth of coverage of him signing executive orders.

No other president got that sort of coverage for their signing of the orders.

- Well, remember, the networks typically cover the parade in front of the White House on Pennsylvania Avenue.

They had nothing else to cover.

So they had a mini-parade.

They had made huge adjustments in a very short period of time.

And then he added to the mini-parade by having these signed.

And it meant that those 18 to 25,000 people who were inside saw something unique as opposed to sitting out in the cold weather watching what usually is a pretty boring speech in very cold weather.

- And how many governors were taking notes on how this works and how they were gonna try this the next time around?

- You know, they may try, but there's only one Trump.

Any politician, Republican or Democrat, who tries to repeat Trump will probably fail.

'Cause, you know, and his strength is his weakness.

And vice versa.

- I saw another photo op with them actually taking the portraits of generals off the wall in the Pentagon, generals who didn't agree with President Trump.

Again, another photo op?

Or are they just trying to change the public's perception and maybe sending a message to the public?

- Oh, they're sending a message, all right.

Although it's a little bit of hypocrisy.

It's a little bit of hypocrisy because the Republicans are against canceling people and taking pictures and statues down.

I am.

And therefore, if you do it to the Democrats or you do it to a general like the Democrats did it to some generals, we're kind of being hypocritical.

So it's gonna be interesting.

Did Trump make that decision or did someone underneath Trump make that decision?

And I think that's the one question I didn't get to Chuck Todd.

Is there someone else, especially with the controversial pardons, really who has Trump's ear to say, "The heck with it, I'm going for everything"?

Despite the controversy and despite J.D.

Vance even a week ago saying, "We're not gonna pardon everybody."

- Well, you brought up pardons.

Let me ask you.

You had to deal with pardons as a governor.

How much research is there before the pardon?

How much polling is there?

And what about timing?

How much goes into the timing of the pardon as well as who you're pardoning?

- I started the pardon process at the very beginning.

And I set a committee forth.

And if we didn't go through the process, no one would get a pardon.

I don't agree with Republicans or Democrat governors or presidents who do pardons on the last day.

I strongly disagree with that.

Whether it be Roy Cooper who did some controversial pardons commuting death sentences in North Carolina or Biden pardoning.

- His family.

- His family.

Or Trump during his first term pardoned some people on the last day.

So was Clinton and Obama.

Doing it the last day, I think, means it was political because you don't want anyone to cover it because the news will be covered up to cover up your controversial pardons.

- But then here comes Trump on the first day making maybe the most controversial pardons of all.

I mean, again, the calculated risk.

- As I say on the Top 5, maybe he thinks that'll be forgotten within 24 hours, that very controversial pardon.

But who knows?

He might invite them to the White House.

Again, I really think someone else has his ear to do these controversial things and to go, "Go for it now before it's too late."

- You know, I talked at the airport with some folks who were flying back from the inaugural, and all of them said there was no real sense of protestors anywhere.

We saw some on television.

But in the moment at the event, not much of a presence.

What happened to all the protestors that were there eight years ago and the protestors we saw all summer long?

Where is the protest movement now that a controversial president is back in office?

- Okay, Jeff, on one of our first "Unspun" shows last year, I told you this, all protests are paid for by somebody.

What it means is someone's cut off the check.

Someone's no longer paying for those protestors to be bused in to D.C. or into any other city.

Whether it be a conservative or liberal protest, left-wing or right-wing, someone is paying for it.

Someone's not writing the big checks to do it.

For what reason I don't know.

Who knows?

It might have been some of the people behind Trump during the swearing-in ceremony who was paying for it.

We might find out in a future book down the road.

(Jeff laughs) - You know, you talked about musical chairs earlier on Inauguration Day.

What's it like moving into the residence, moving into the office when you're the incoming president or governor?

- Well, moving in, I had never been in the Governor's Mansion before.

Never had been invited.

I had been mayor of Charlotte for a long time.

So moving in, I thought it'd be like the White House, you know, everything would be set up and the beds and everything.

I found out we had no mattresses.

So I had to call my brother-in-law who's in the trucking business to go pick up some mattresses from the Association of the Blind in Winston-Salem so Ann and I would have something to sleep on that night.

So it was a weird feeling.

I remember giving my brother Phil a big hug before we went and spent the first night because our life changed dramatically.

Plus you realize there's no privacy in the White House and there's no privacy in the Executive Mansion in Raleigh.

- Okay, flip side.

What's it like moving out on Inauguration Day?

- It's brutal.

Just like you moving out of any office that you used to have or moving out of the home that you have great memories of.

I left a day early out of the Executive Mansion with my chief of staff, Thomas Stith, and we just walked out the front door, walked two blocks to the Capitol.

I got in the car, and I drove to the Western residence for New Year's Night because Cooper was getting sworn in at midnight.

Wasn't really a part of that ceremony.

So the troopers, January 1st that morning, drove me and Ann back home and left us off at the curb with all these boxes.

And they said, "Enjoyed our time, Mr.

Governor."

- No helicopter ceremony flying over the State Capitol?

- None, no.

In fact, I was carrying boxes into our house in Charlotte.

It was a pretty rude awakening.

Back to the real world very quickly.

- See, even when you're the ex-governor, you can't find someone to help you move.

It's so tough.

- No, I'll tell you who's gonna... Kamala Harris is gonna...

I can't imagine what she's going through right now.

'Cause I don't think her security lasts for that long.

- [Jeff] Right.

- And the entourage that you have as a president and vice president is unbelievable.

And as a governor.

And then it ends just like that.

- Well, just like that our segment of "Unspun" 1-on-1 ends.

- I'm getting used to it.

- Yeah, you are.

Thanks again, governor.

(dramatic music) - Well, only once before in our history has a president been booted out of office and then won the White House again.

And that was Grover Cleveland back in 1893.

And it was Cleveland's wife who told the White House staff upon leaving the first time to take care of the furniture because, quote, "We will be back."

Well, now Donald Trump is back too.

Do-overs are very rare in politics.

Voters don't often give their defeated leaders a second chance.

And defeated leaders don't often get four years to reflect on what they'd do differently the second time around.

So how will President Trump use this rare opportunity?

What has he learned, and how has he changed from his first term in office?

And how has the country changed?

Does Trump have more of a mandate now after the last four years without Trump?

Well, we're about to find out.

But here's what we do know.

The race to replace President Trump starts now, and there's a long list of possible successors in both parties, the new VP and the former VP, senators and celebrities, some billionaires, current governors and cabinet members, maybe even members of Trump's own family that are all watching what happens next.

If Trump 2.0 is a success, Trump's endorsement may be all the next presidential candidate needs to win four years from now.

But if the public turns on Trump like they did four years ago, well, get ready for a real free-for-all.

So just like Mrs. Cleveland said, take care of the furniture and stay tuned.

That's the reality as I see it.

I hope you'll come back next week as we tell you what politicians are thinking but not saying right here on "Unspun."

Goodnight, folks.

(dramatic music) (dramatic music) - [Announcer] A production of PBS Charlotte.

(soft string music)