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♪♪ -Do you know what our state comptroller does?

Don't worry, not many do, but it's a government watchdog that roots out corruption and fraud, and the office in New Jersey was almost just stripped of its power.

We'll get into that and more in just a minute.

Hi everyone, I'm Joanna Gagis, and this is Reporters Roundtable, the show where we round up a panel of journalists to talk about the latest week of New Jersey news.

For our panel today, we've got our very own Colleen O'Dea, senior writer and projects editor for NJ Spotlight News, Daniel Han, reporter for Politico NJ, and Charlie Stile, political colonist with The Record and USA Today Network.

Welcome to the show, panel.

So a bill started moving through the legislature that would have taken the teeth away from the New Jersey office of the state comptroller, which is run right now by Kevin Walsh.

It would have instead given it to the SCI.

That's the State Commission of Investigation.

Colleen, I'm going to start with you.

The bill was just pulled by Senate President Nick Scutari.

What's happening here?

-You know, I think it was pretty clear after the hearing on the bill on Monday when there was kind of controversy and chaos broke out.

Senator Jim Beach, who is the chairman of the committee, just--I mean, we see this often in Trenton, but kind of not to this extent.

He allowed the supporters of the bill lots and lots of time to talk.

Senator Andy Kim, our U.S.

senator, one of our two U.S.

senators from New Jersey, got there early, signed up early, needed to get out to catch a train to Washington for votes.

He was called last, as was Walsh and State Attorney General Matt Plattken, and they were stopped at three minutes of testimony.

There was a lot of outrage.

There was a back-and-forth shouting between Kim and Beach and some others.

After that, some Democrats, including Vin Gopal, publicly said they would not support the bill.

They think there were problems with it.

There was this public outcry.

And, frankly, I think that Senator Scutari saw that this was going to be a hard sell for his delegation.

So he pulled it.

So you just teed up a clip that we're going to show you just to really get a sense, because it's hard to really imagine.

You say it was heated, but it's hard to imagine just how this exchange went unless you saw it yourself.

Let's take a quick look at that exchange between Senator Jim Beach and United States Senator Andy Kim.

People of New Jersey are sick and tired of this.

They feel this way.

That's three minutes, so please conclude.

Sir, I have been here for five and a half hours.

I am missing votes at the Capitol.

So what?

So is everyone else.

Give me 30 seconds.

Why do you think you're special?

No, you're not.

What happened was you gave Mr.

Keller special privileges here.

He came at my request.

Yes.

You didn't.

Oh, okay, I see.

Okay.

So there is someone that is special.

I would just note for The Record, that's a textbook First Amendment violation of viewpoint discrimination which the Attorney General's Office will be taking up.

OK, so at its face we see these two senators kind of going at it, but there's a lot of politics at play here, right?

Just looking at the office, Kevin Walsh has been a pretty effective comptroller.

He's recovered $530 million for New Jersey just in four years alone, but he's also gone after some Democratic heavy hitters, including George Norcross down in Camden County, as well as a union leader with ties to Scutari.

So Daniel, I just want to ask, just in terms of this bill, this isn't the first time that we've seen Senate President Nick Scutari try to push through something that really kind of claws back oversight of government operations, right?

I think that what you saw with this bill is that the acting state comptroller, Kevin Walsh, has really been unafraid to investigate fraud, waste, and abuse, including in some of the highest echelons of democratic power in the state.

I mean, you had mentioned South Jersey power broker George Norcross.

There are a lot of Union County officials that were close to Scutari that the comptroller investigated.

And clearly, that hasn't gone well with a lot of powerful people in Trenton.

And to your question on Scutari transparency, I feel like there's been a broader movement within Trenton that has really scaled back transparency or government accountability.

I think of something like the Elections Transparency Act, which shortened the amount of time, which shortened the statute of limitations for when campaign finance violations can be investigated.

There was a lot of uproar, I believe, a year ago over the Open Public Records Act and legislation that a lot of people viewed as chipping away at access to government records.

So I think that the effort on the comptroller bill should be viewed within this broader effort within TREAD.

And so you've got to wonder now why there was a lot of pushback on the OPA bill as well.

Charlie, I'm going to give this question to you.

Despite political outcry, Scutari moved forward with that.

Do you think that there's enough pushback within his own party right now, maybe from you know, leaders like Gopal, maybe from the governor who said we're not going to we're not going to vote on this or sign it?

I do.

I think he tested the waters, made some phone calls and realized he didn't have the votes for it.

And I think for two reasons.

One, I think the backlash over Scutari, excuse me, over Senator Kim and that exchange was really kind of a bridge too far.

The optics of it were horrible.

I mean, the level of discourtesy was-- I've never seen anything like that.

I've seen state legislators go at each other, but they've always given deference to a sitting anybody that comes in from outside with status.

And they just, you know, took off the gloves.

I think it backfired.

I also think a lot of the senators are cringing at the idea of gutting a watchdog at a time when transparency and accountability are really at the forefront of the political dialogue and on the minds of voters.

Yeah, and it's something we hear criticism from Democrats a whole lot about when it comes to Washington, but then right here in New Jersey, we're seeing a lot of those clawbacks.

Let me ask you this, because -- go ahead.

If I could just jump in for a second.

No, I was just wanting to add to that point about Washington.

Daniel, I'll come back to you.

It's a very troubling point.

Charlie, go ahead.

No, I mean, it's weird that Democrats, ironically, were making a -- taking a step or proposing a step that was very much in line with what's -- Donald Trump's administration has been doing to watchdogs in his administration.

He's been shutting them down.

And this was shutting down a watchdog.

It was really unbelievable when you look at it in that context.

They said that they were going to give more teeth to the SCI, but we know that the SCI is fully controlled by the legislature.

And so it's not that kind of external watchdog.

Daniel, you had a thought.

Go ahead.

I was just going to say, I think the political climate we're in within the state is different now when the comptroller bill was being proposed versus when the Oprah bill was being proposed.

And what I mean by that is that after Oprah bill became law, you actually saw one of the bill's top sponsors, Assemblyman Joe Danielson, almost lose his primary against a really underfunded opponent who seemingly came out of nowhere.

And I think that in a world where there is no more county line, and I'm talking about the preferable ballot placements that used to exist for party-endorsed candidates, that doesn't exist anymore.

And I think lawmakers are more cognizant of that, that there could be more political repercussion to some of their proposals and votes.

And I think that the comptroller bill did attract a lot of opposition from a lot of important constituencies within the Democratic Party.

And then you have someone like Senator Andy Kim, who has really become ascendant in the party's progressive wing coming out against that.

I think that's - that created a lot of political troubles for a lot of lawmakers that just didn't see the tradeoff here.

NOOR: Well, it's interesting.

That's a good point you raise, because we might just be seeing the beginning of some of these political troubles, because Kim says he's going after any of these lawmakers who are not in support of more transparency, who he calls, I think, anti-transparency lawmakers.

He said Beach will be one of them.

But I'm curious, and I'll open this up to whoever's got thoughts.

Do you see him going after Scutari?

And I wonder if there could be the beginnings of some fracturing between Democrats in New Jersey.

I think Scutari is a heavy lift, right, because he is the president of the Senate right now.

But there certainly are some progressives in Union County that have been pushing back against the machine.

We saw one, in fact, as Daniel pointed out, right, some folks in the primary this year.

We had some interesting outcomes.

Union County was one of them.

Somebody beat a county, a party-endorsed candidate in the primary, so that's one of four that I can count, you know, more progressive candidates who are coming in.

Still, you know, even, we talk about the end of the party line and the end of that endorsement, but there's still a lot of money that the county parties have.

There's still a lot of organization that they have that, depending on which county you're in, can help.

So I think going after Scutari would be a tough one.

Going after Beach, who is now 79, and where there are also some progressives in Canning County who have been eager to defeat George Norcross-endorsed candidates, I think that's a lot easier of a lift.

All right, Colleen, we're going to stay with you.

We saw two major federal lawsuits decided this week.

The first one, a federal judge saying that Alina Habba's appointment as U.S.

District Attorney for the-excuse me, U.S.

Attorney for the District of New Jersey violated federal laws, federal rules.

She has now stepped aside.

Was that surprising to you?

I guess I would have thought that they would have continued to fight that in higher courts, but maybe they saw the writing on the wall, because, you know, we've seen this happen in New York.

We've seen issues in Virginia.

So maybe they saw the writing on the wall and figured, well, we'll finally give this one up.

So I mean, we're stepping up.

Do you anticipate another Trump appointment there, or do you think that this is going to be a more collaborative process in terms of who replaces her?

Oh, my goodness, no.

I would definitely see another Trump appointment there.

I can't imagine that they're going to -- the Trump administration is going to try to get along with our two senators, Annie Kim and Cory Booker.

President Trump says unless it's a Democrat, he'll never get it approved.

Really, what needs to happen is the person needs to go before the Senate, and that is controlled right now by the Republicans.

Daniel, in the other federal case, a judge ruled that the Trump administration ban on wind projects on federal land and waters was also, he called it capricious and arbitrary.

Could wind energy be back in New Jersey?

Will it be back in New Jersey?

Will it be back in New Jersey?

Cheryl is someone who has really focused a lot on renewables.

She's talked a lot about solar.

She's talked a lot about energy.

She hasn't quite leaned into offshore wind as much as incumbent Governor Phil Murphy.

But I think that if you take a look at the election results, you have someone like Republican Jack Ciattarelli, who is very vocal, very adamant on there being no offshore wind in New Jersey.

And I think Cheryl's a little bit more of an open book on that.

We haven't seen her completely rule that out.

But I don't think we should also expect something perhaps as aggressive or as proactive as the Murphy administration's approach to offshore wind.

Let's stay honest, Daniel, because you recently - go ahead, Charlie, you have something to add?

I was just going to add real quickly, it also comes down to the financing of these wind companies.

I mean, Orsted bailed out of this project because they really didn't have the resources to carry through.

So... After a billion-dollar tax credit.

Correct.

And so, I don't know.

I think it's a steep hill to climb.

And just to add on to Daniel's point, you know, Cittarelli obviously didn't come close in the election, but you saw just how many people signed on to his campaign because offshore wind and trying to block offshore wind was a huge issue, especially for residents along shore towns.

But I want to stay on the energy topic for a minute, because Governor Murphy has made this last-ditch effort, Daniel, to codify his energy master plan into law.

Just explain what's happening there, and do you think that's likely to happen in this lame duck?

I think that this is really one of the most ambitious priorities of the Murphy administration during the lame duck session.

And I think that if you look at the election results, because Democrats were able to win so convincingly, it has a better chance of getting done.

I don't think that is by any stretch something easy for them to get through the state legislature during this time frame.

The governor has really been adamant that the state have clean energy goals by 2035, and Governor-elect Mikey Sherrill has actually even committed to keeping some of those in place.

So I think that with a Democratic legislature and with the election results that we just saw, it becomes an easier lift, but not necessarily one that is guaranteed right now.

I mean, but he hasn't been able to push that through.

You really do see that coming through in the lame duck after all these years of not being able to codify that?

Well, I think that sometimes the lame duck session is when a lot of things get done that you would ordinarily not expect.

A lot of dealmaking, a lot of trading.

I mean, there is, you know, there is some scuttlebutt that perhaps the comptroller bill could be used to trade other pieces of legislation or nominations.

That bill obviously isn't happening anymore, but, you know, you can never really rule anything out.

Charlie, we've heard the governor say countless times he's running through the tape to the end of his term.

Anything that you see him trying to accomplish beyond the Energy Master Plan that he really didn't get to in this last eight years?

Well, there's always the state bank.

You know, that was the one he proposed at the outset.

Let's dust that one off.

That's a hard one to say.

I think the Energy Master Plan is a big one because that was part of his early, you know, part of his progressive array of policies that he was pushing through.

And I think Daniel's right.

I think the outcome of this election really was a mandate, or it could be interpreted as a mandate, or at least giving them permission to push this forward.

And I think it does have a good shot, because even if it gets enacted, it's still one of those policies that is down the road and other future legislatures in a moment of need or emergency can-or just out of other interests will just, you know, can push it aside or not fulfill it.

I mean, I've seen this for years.

Christie Whitman came in with a plan to preserve 100,000 acres in 10 years, and that never was achieved.

So- So it could happen.

But I think the politics of it worked for him.

All right, let's switch gears really quickly.

Colleen, did you have something to add before you show us your annual Christmas village?

Go ahead.

I was just going to say really quickly, you know, we met with the governor this week, and a couple of the bills that he said he would really like to see come to his desk are the school cell phone ban and three or four bills that would change some regulatory framework to make it easier to build affordable housing.

Yeah, thank you for that.

Great point.

Go ahead, Colleen, every year, true to tradition, we get to see your holiday, your Christmas village.

Show us what you've got this year and tell us about any new additions you have.

Yeah, so, you know, thanks.

I have to give great thanks to my two sons and their respective wife and fiance for helping put this together because there's no way I could do this myself.

My one son is a doctor.

I've been to 75 houses now.

I got some Christmas gifts last year.

There you can see there's a new hunting lodge.

There was a new sailors' pub there.

And we also have an optician's.

We now have a doctor's office, a hospital, an optician's.

So I think they're all cared for.

Any medical problems, you're good in the Christmas Village.

I also do want... I think you're going to need a new house soon to house all of this.

I wish I could have at least one more room because then we could spread it out and folks could see even, you know, the details of more of the buildings.

It's really a labor of love.

We just love doing this.

And I do want to point out we're coming close to it.

I'm not sure how well you can see it.

We do have a Gazette right there.

That's our hometown newspaper.

We also have a publishing company.

And we've got some newsies who stand on the corners hawking papers.

So, definitely-we may have lost the Star-Ledger in New Jersey, but here they are making a guest appearance.

But we definitely are still pro-newspapers in the Christmas Village.

Okay, rapid fire.

I'm going to give you each 30 seconds.

Colleen, favorite "Only in New Jersey" story for this year?

What was your favorite story that you covered or followed?

I think it was the AI-generated ad from Josh Gottheimer boxing President Trump in his failed primary campaign.

Man, that feels like ages ago.

Charlie, what do you got?

-Well, I enjoyed very much covering the Democratic primary for governor.

It was a great exchange of ideas, and it was fun to be out on the road.

But I got to say that last week, that exchange between Kim and Beach really takes the cake.

-Yeah, for sure.

Daniel, favorite story for this year?

-I'm going to go with something a little bit more lighthearted.

A Cranford Council candidate showing up to town committee meetings to break dance and oppose tax increases.

If you haven't seen the video, I recommend that you check it out.

It's a lot of fun.

Local politics can be fun.

What can I say?

-Yeah.

Local politics never lets you down.

Thank you so much, Colleen, Daniel, Charlie.

Appreciate all of you being with us this year and today.

That's all the time we've got for this week's Reporters Roundtable.

Thank you so much to our panel and to you for joining us.

You can follow me on Instagram @JoannaGagisNJ, and go ahead and scan that QR code right on your screen to see more episodes of Roundtable.

For all the crew here at Gateway Center in downtown Newark, I'm Joanna Gagis.

Thanks for being with us, and have a great weekend.

- Major funding for Reporters Roundtable is provided by RWJBarnabas Health.

Let's be healthy together.

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