ANNOUNCER: TONIGHT ON SHOWCASE WITH BARBARA KELLAR, AMERICAN JAZZ PIANIST AND COMPOSER FRED HERSCH.

STAY TUNED.

SHOWCASE STARTS RIGHT NOW.

[MUSIC] KELLAR: HI.

WELCOME TO SHOWCASE.

WE HAVE A REALLY INTERESTING AND CHARISMATIC VISITOR TODAY, A SUPERSTAR MUSICIAN.

HE'S GOING TO TELL US ALL ABOUT FRED HERSCH, WHO IS A NATIVE CINCINNATIAN, LONG GONE TO NEW YORK WITH A RESUME LIKE THIS.

SO, FRED, TELL US ABOUT YOUR CHILDHOOD HERE AND THEN WHERE YOU'VE GONE IN LIFE.

HERSCH: YEAH.

BORN AND RAISED IN NORTH AVONDALE.

A PUBLIC SCHOOL KID.

A GRADUATE OF WALNUT HILLS 1973.

SO I'VE BEEN AWAY FROM NEW YORK FOR ABOUT 50 YEARS NOW.

MY MOM STILL LIVES HERE, 95 AND GOING STRONG.

AND I THINK THE MOST FORTUNATE THING HAPPENED TO ME WAS THERE WAS A PIANO IN THE HOUSE, AND SO AGE THREE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, I CRAWLED UP THERE AND PLAYED THE THEME TO SOME CARTOON SHOW.

AND MY MOTHER, WHOSE FATHER WAS A VIOLINIST, AND MY FATHER, WHOSE MOTHER WAS A PIANIST, JUST HAD A PIANO BECAUSE EVERY NICE HOME HAD A PIANO.

KELLAR: RIGHT.

HERSCH: AND I JUST WENT TO IT AND GOT LESSONS, INCLUDING AS AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOLER COMPOSITION AND THEORY, ALL KINDS OF GREAT PRIVATE INSTRUCTION.

AND IN THOSE DAYS, IT WAS SORT OF LIKE, IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE A CONCERT PIANIST, YOU'RE NOT SERIOUS.

BUT I ALWAYS LOVE TO IMPROVISE.

IT WAS MUCH MORE FUN.

I STARTED COMPOSING MUSIC IN SECOND OR THIRD GRADE.

AND WHEN I DISCOVERED JAZZ AS A LATE TEENAGER, IT WAS, LIKE, THE PERFECT THING FOR ME.

I MEAN, IMPROVISING WITH PEOPLE IN FRONT OF PEOPLE.

I LOVED THE NIGHTCLUBS IN CINCINNATI.

I DIDN'T GO TO WHAT PEOPLE NOW KNOW AS JAZZ SCHOOL, ALTHOUGH I'M A TRAINED MUSICIAN.

BUT I REALLY LEARNED A LOT ABOUT JAZZ JUST PLAYING WITH THE OLDER, WONDERFUL LOCAL MUSICIANS AT THAT TIME, ESPECIALLY THE SAXOPHONIST JIMMY MCGARY AND THE GUITAR PLAYER CAL COLLINS.

AND ALSO ANOTHER GUITAR PLAYER, KENNY POOLE.

THEY WERE GREAT TO ME.

THEY LET ME PLAY AND GAVE ME SOME TOUGH LOVE WHEN I NEEDED IT.

AND AFTER ABOUT A YEAR AFTER LEAVING HIGH SCHOOL, AFTER WORKING LOCALLY AS A PROFESSIONAL PLAYER, WHICH I GOT INTO PRETTY QUICKLY, I REALIZED I NEEDED TO KIND OF MAKE A MOVE.

SO I WENT TO BOSTON, TO THE NEW ENGLAND CONSERVATORY AND FINISHED MY DEGREE.

AND ONE WEEK LATER I WAS LIVING IN GREENWICH VILLAGE IN NEW YORK.

AND I'VE BEEN LIVING IN SOHO, DOWNTOWN NEW YORK, IN A LOFT FOR 45 YEARS.

KELLAR: SAME LOFT?

HERSCH: SAME LOFT, RENT STABILIZED AND CHEAP.

THEY'LL GET ME OUT OF THERE IN A BOX.

KELLAR: YEAH.

HERSCH: AND DURING THE '20S -- DURING MY 20S, I SERVED APPRENTICESHIPS WITH MANY OF THE JAZZ GIANTS: STAN GETZ AND ART FARMER AND MANY, MANY, MANY OTHERS.

AND WHEN I WAS 30, I BEGAN TO LEAD MY OWN GROUPS AND MAKE MY OWN RECORDINGS.

AND I'VE BEEN VERY LUCKY TO BE RECOGNIZED 17 TIMES GRAMMY NOMINATED, LOTS OF GUGGENHEIM FELLOWSHIP IN COMPOSITION.

YOU KNOW, IT'S BEEN VERY GRATIFYING TO GET THAT KIND OF RECOGNITION IN MY LIFE.

KELLAR: WOULD IT BE OKAY TO SAY IT'S MORE THAN LUCK?

HERSCH: WELL, YEAH, MAYBE.

MAYBE A LITTLE HARD WORK.

AND BUT THERE'S ALWAYS A LITTLE LUCK IN THINGS.

KELLAR: A LITTLE LUCK, A LOT OF TALENT.

HERSCH: YEAH, BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE A VISION.

AND I KNEW THAT I WANTED TO GO TO NEW YORK AND PLAY WITH THE GREATEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD AND MAKE A LIVING AT THIS.

AND I WAS VERY DETERMINED.

AND THE LAST, YOU KNOW, 40 YEARS I'VE BEEN CONSISTENTLY MAKING ALBUMS.

I JUST HAVE BEEN TOURING IN EUROPE.

I GO OVER THERE SEVERAL TIMES A YEAR AND HAVE A THREE WEEK A YEAR RESIDENCY AT THE GREATEST JAZZ CLUB IN THE WORLD IN NEW YORK, THE VILLAGE VANGUARD, WHICH HAS BEEN THERE 90 YEARS.

YES.

INCREDIBLE.

AND I CONSIDER MYSELF VERY LUCKY.

ON OTHER LEVELS, WHEN I WAS 30, I WAS ALSO DIAGNOSED WITH HIV, AND I HAD QUITE A CLOUD HANGING OVER ME FOR A LONG TIME.

BACK THEN IT WAS MUCH MORE OF A DEATH SENTENCE THAN IT IS NOW.

BUT I LOST A LOT OF FRIENDS AND MY WORLD CHANGED FOREVER.

AND DESPITE MANY PERIODS OF ILL HEALTH, INCLUDING A TWO MONTH COMA.

KELLAR: TWO MONTHS?

HERSCH: TWO MONTHS, YEAH, IN 2008.

YEAH, TWO MONTHS.

AND WHEN I GOT OUT, I WASN'T ABLE TO EAT.

I HAD TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY THE PIANO AGAIN AND WALK AND TALK AND SWALLOW.

SO, YEAH, I'VE HAD A LOT OF DRAMA OVER THE YEARS WITH MY HEALTH, BUT, YOU KNOW, I'LL BE 70 IN NOT TOO DISTANT FUTURE.

AND I HAVE THE ENERGY TO KEEP PLAYING AND WRITING AND STAY CREATIVE AND I'M VERY FORTUNATE.

KELLAR: YEAH.

I DON'T WANT TO DWELL ON SOMETHING HORRIBLE, BUT TWO MONTHS IN A COMA.

HERSCH: YOU SEE IN THE MOVIES, PEOPLE, THEY'RE LYING THERE AND THEIR HAIR IS PERFECT, AND THEY HAVE THIS LITTLE THING IN THEIR NOSE, A CANNULA, AND THEY WAKE UP AND THEY SAY HELLO.

IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT.

IT TAKES SOME NUMBER OF DAYS FOR YOUR BRAIN TO BEGIN TO KIND OF KNIT TOGETHER.

AND I HAD NO IDEA HOW LONG I'D BEEN OUT.

I THOUGHT I'D BEEN OUT FOR TEN DAYS.

KELLAR: OH MY GOSH.

HERSCH: AND MY ORGANS HAD SHUT DOWN.

AND THEY INDUCED THE COMA AND FIGURED THEY WOULD GET ME OUT IN ABOUT TEN DAYS.

KELLAR: AND IT LASTED TWO MONTHS.

HERSCH: YEAH, AND IT LASTED TWO MONTHS.

KELLAR: THEY INDUCED THE COMA.

WHY?

HERSCH: BECAUSE I HAD SO MANY INFECTIONS IN MY BODY AND MY KIDNEYS WERE SHUTTING DOWN, AND THEY HAD TO GET IN THERE.

AND UNFORTUNATELY, THEY PUT A BREATHING TUBE RIGHT HERE THAT PARALYZED MY RIGHT VOCAL CORD.

SO I HAD TO LEARN ALL KINDS OF SWALLOWING AND SPEECH THINGS.

BUT I'VE HAD -- I'VE BEEN VERY LUCKY WITH GREAT DOCTORS, MEDICAL CARE.

I HAVE A HUSBAND OF 22 YEARS WHO HAS SEEN ME THROUGH EVERYTHING, AND HE'S A TOTAL JOY.

SO I CONSIDER MYSELF A VERY FORTUNATE GUY.

KELLAR: YEAH.

HOW LONG DID IT TAKE YOU TO, FROM THE TIME YOU ACTUALLY WOKE UP UNTIL YOU WERE WHOLE AGAIN?

HERSCH: I WOULD SAY IT WAS A MATTER OF MONTHS, NOT DAYS.

KELLAR: BUT, YEAH, ON THAT SCORE, YOU WERE LUCKY.

HERSCH: YES.

AND ALSO, YOU KNOW, THE SCIENTIFIC ADVANCES IN THE LAST NUMBER OF YEARS HAVE BEEN VERY IMPORTANT.

KELLAR: HOW LONG DID IT TAKE YOU TO CATCH UP ON THE NEWS?

HERSCH: WELL, HOW I FOUND OUT THAT I WAS OUT FOR TWO MONTHS IS I WAS IN THE REHAB UNIT AFTER THE COMA.

KELLAR: AND WHERE WAS THIS, IN NEW YORK?

HERSCH: IN NEW YORK, UH-HUH.

AND I ASKED MY PARTNER, SCOTT.

I SAID, HE SAID, "WHAT DO YOU WANT TO WATCH?"

I SAID, "WELL, LET'S TURN ON WIMBLEDON," BECAUSE I'M A TENNIS NUT.

WELL, WIMBLEDON HAPPENS IN EARLY JULY, AND THIS WAS THE MIDDLE OF AUGUST.

KELLAR: OKAY.

HERSCH: AND THAT'S WHEN HE TOLD ME THAT -- KELLAR: THAT YOU MISSED IT.

HERSCH: THAT I MISSED IT, BUT, YOU KNOW, TRY NOT TO DWELL ON THESE THINGS.

I DON'T SHY FROM TALKING ABOUT THEM.

I HAVE A PRETTY INTENSE PRESENCE AS AN ACTIVIST.

PROBABLY THE FIRST JAZZ MUSICIAN TO COME OUT AS GAY AND HIV POSITIVE.

AND I WROTE A MEMOIR DETAILING MY WHOLE HISTORY ABOUT ALL THAT CALLED GOOD THINGS HAPPEN SLOWLY, WHICH IS ALSO HOW I FEEL MY CAREER HAS BEEN.

IT'S JUST BEEN A NICE, STEADY PROGRESSION.

BUT, YOU KNOW, PATIENCE IS SOMETHING THAT YOU LEARN AS YOU WELL KNOW.

KELLAR: YEAH.

SO YOU CAME BACK AND IT TOOK YOU A COUPLE OF MONTHS.

AND THEN WERE YOU ABLE TO GET RIGHT BACK TO YOUR CAREER, OR DID YOU HAVE TO START ALL OVER?

HERSCH: NO.

I PLAYED MY FIRST FULL WEEK GIG, I GOT OUT OF THE COMA IN -- OUT OF REHAB IN SEPTEMBER, AND I PLAYED MY FIRST FULL WEEK GIG IN JANUARY.

KELLAR: WOW.

HERSCH: SO, YEAH.

SO, I WOULD SAY, MAYBE IT'S A, YOU KNOW, RESILIENT ASHKENAZI JEWISH GENES OR SOMETHING THAT -- KELLAR: THAT'S IT.

HERSCH: THAT'S IT.

YOU KNOW?

THAT'S, WE'RE -- WE HANG ON.

RIGHT?

KELLAR: YEAH.

THAT'S AN AMAZING STORY.

WHEN YOU STARTED PLAYING AGAIN, WERE YOU PLAYING VIRTUALLY THE SAME KIND OF PLACES YOU WERE?

HERSCH: YEAH, I WAS PLAYING THE SAME KIND OF PLACES.

KELLAR: DID THEY SAY WELCOME BACK.

WAS THERE A SONG WELCOME BACK?

HERSCH: YEAH, THERE WAS.

I EXPERIENCED A LOT OF LOVE FROM THE JAZZ COMMUNITY, A LOT OF SUPPORT.

AND, YOU KNOW, FROM MY STUDENTS AND MY COLLEAGUES AND FROM EVERYWHERE.

AND, YOU KNOW, THESE LAST NUMBER OF YEARS, FOUR OR FIVE YEARS HAVE BEEN THE BEST OF MY CAREER.

KELLAR: SO YOU HAVE STUDENTS IN NEW YORK?

HERSCH: I HAVE STUDENTS, YES.

I'VE TAUGHT AT MANY SCHOOLS.

RIGHT NOW I JUST TEACH PRIVATELY FOR THE MOST PART.

KELLAR: BUT DIDN'T YOU TEACH AT JUILLIARD?

HERSCH: YES, I'VE TAUGHT AT TAUGHT AT JUILLIARD AND NEW ENGLAND CONSERVATORY, A BUNCH OF PLACES.

NOW I JUST TEACH AT HOME, YOU KNOW, AS I WANT.

KELLAR: YEAH.

AND YOU OBVIOUSLY PERFORM AT MOSTLY JAZZ VENUES, OR WHAT ARE -- HERSCH: CONCERT HALLS IN EUROPE, ALL CONCERT HALLS, JAZZ FESTIVALS, BIG JAZZ CLUBS OCCASIONALLY.

KELLAR: ARE YOU THE SOLE PERFORMER OR IS THERE A BACKUP?

HERSCH: WELL, I HAVE -- I PLAY OFTEN WITH A TRIO WITH PIANO, BASS AND DRUMS.

I DO A LOT OF SOLO CONCERTS.

I DO DUO COLLABORATIONS.

I'VE ALSO WRITTEN A LOT OF LARGER PIECES FOR VARIOUS KINDS OF ENSEMBLES, BUT I'D SAY SOLO, DUO AND TRIO ARE THE BASIC HUBS OF THE WHEEL.

KELLAR: YEAH.

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IS YOUR BEST EXPERIENCE, OTHER THAN REVIVING YOURSELF, BUT CAREER WISE?

HERSCH: OH, WOW.

THAT'S A -- THAT'S A PRETTY HARD THING TO, YOU KNOW, I COULD SAY, " WELL, IT WAS THE FIRST TIME I PLAYED AT CARNEGIE HALL."

KELLAR: OH, MY GOSH.

TELL US ABOUT PLAYING AT CARNEGIE HALL.

HERSCH: YEAH, WELL, CARNEGIE HALL IS, YOU KNOW, MUSIC HALL LOOKS NOT UNLIKE CARNEGIE HALL.

KELLAR: I'VE BEEN TO CARNEGIE HALL.

HERSCH: RIGHT.

AND THE STAGE IS GIGANTIC.

AND WHEN I WALKED OUT TO PLAY, I WAS REALLY THINKING OF MY GRANDFATHER, WHO I'M NAMED AFTER WHO WAS BORN IN BROOKLYN, PLAYED THE VIOLIN, SOLD FURNITURE, AND HOW PROUD HE WOULD HAVE BEEN TO SAY, "OH, MY GRANDSON PLAYED AT CARNEGIE HALL."

KELLAR: RIGHT.

HERSCH: AND THAT WALK FROM THE STAGE DOOR TO THE PIANO, IT FELT LIKE AN HOUR.

KELLAR: I BET, YEAH.

HERSCH: BUT TO ME, THE VILLAGE VANGUARD CLUB IS THE CARNEGIE HALL OF JAZZ CLUBS, AND PLAYING THERE AS OFTEN AS I DO IS REALLY SOMETHING I DON'T TAKE FOR GRANTED.

KELLAR: WHERE IS THE VILLAGE VANGUARD?

HERSCH: IT'S IN THE VILLAGE ON 7TH AVENUE IN GREENWICH VILLAGE.

BEEN THERE SINCE 1935, AND ALMOST EVERY GREAT JAZZ MUSICIAN IN HISTORY HAS PLAYED THERE.

KELLAR: THAT'S NOT WHERE WOODY ALLEN USED TO PLAY.

HERSCH: YEAH, WOODY ALLEN.

KELLAR: IS THAT WHERE HE USED TO PLAY?

HERSCH: YEAH, EVEN BARBRA STREISAND AND THE WEAVERS AND SO MANY -- JUDY HOLLIDAY AND THELONIOUS MONK AND SO MANY GREAT ARTISTS HAVE PLAYED, MILES DAVIS HAVE ALL PLAYED THERE.

KELLAR: WHEN YOU WERE -- YOUR FIRST TIME AT CARNEGIE HALL, WAS THAT A SOLO OR DID YOU HAVE A BACKUP?

HERSCH: I WAS PLAYING SOLO ON A MIXED PROGRAM WITH A BUNCH OF OTHER PEOPLE, BUT I WAS PLAYING SOLO PIANO.

YES.

AND THEN THERE'S ALSO A SMALLER HALL, A 500 SEAT HALL, AND I'VE PLAYED THERE A NUMBER OF TIMES.

JAZZ AT LINCOLN CENTER, PLACES LIKE THAT, WHICH ARE REALLY GREAT VENUES.

KELLAR: YEAH.

DID YOU GET THOSE VENUES FROM YOUR AGENT OR JUST FRIENDS?

HERSCH: YEAH, AGENT BASICALLY, YEAH, AGENT OR JUST THEY KIND OF DEVELOPED ORGANICALLY.

I'M LUCKY ALSO TO HAVE PEOPLE THAT SUPPORT MY CAREER, MANAGERS, AGENTS.

AND YOU KNOW, IT TAKES A VILLAGE SOMETIMES.

KELLAR: RIGHT.

A SOHO VILLAGE?

HERSCH: YES, A SOHO VILLAGE, YES.

KELLAR: WELL, YOU'RE, IT SOUNDS LIKE, ALTHOUGH YOUR ROOTS ARE IN CINCINNATI, YOU'RE A DEDICATED NEW YORKER.

HERSCH: I AM.

I AM A DEDICATED NEW YORKER.

IT DRIVES ME CRAZY.

WHEN I MOVED TO SOHO IN 1979, IT WAS BASICALLY ARTISTS AND LOFTS AND SOME GALLERIES AND A FEW RESTAURANTS AND BOUTIQUES.

AND NOW I LIVE IN THE CENTER OF THE BUSIEST SHOPPING BLOCK IN NEW YORK.

KELLAR: OH, NO.

AND IS THAT A GOOD OR BAD?

HERSCH: WELL, IT'S LIKE WALKING THROUGH TIMES SQUARE EVERY DAY.

KELLAR: OH, YEAH.

HERSCH: YOU SEE YOUNG GIRLS INSTAGRAMMING THEMSELVES.

BUT I'VE GOT A VERY CHEAP RENT, SO I'LL NEVER LEAVE.

KELLAR: BUT YOU DON'T HAVE THAT COWBOY.

HERSCH: NO, NO, I DON'T HAVE SPONGEBOB SQUAREPANTS ASSAULTING ME.

KELLAR: YES.

RIGHT.

HERSCH: BUT, YOU KNOW, I DO MISS THE NEW YORK OF THE LATE '70S WHEN IT WAS GRITTIER AND THERE WERE MORE CHARACTERS, AND THE GAY SCENE WAS MUCH MORE, I WOULD SAY, CREATIVE.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, AIDS OBVIOUSLY DID QUITE A NUMBER ON -- KELLAR: YEAH, EXACTLY.

HERSCH: -- THE CREATIVE PEOPLE IN NEW YORK, PARTICULARLY, DANCERS, WRITERS, ARTISTS OF ALL KINDS, JUST CUT SUCH A WIDE SWATH.

BUT BACK THEN, THERE WERE MORE CHARACTERS, I'D SAY.

KELLAR: I USED TO GO TO NEW YORK BEFORE COVID EVERY MONTH.

AND SO IN THOSE DAYS, I WENT TO ANYTHING AND EVERY KIND OF PLAY.

I SAW A LOT OF CHARLES BUSCH.

HERSCH: RIGHT, OKAY, SURE.

KELLAR: DOWN IN THE VILLAGE.

THEY WERE JUST GREAT.

REALLY FUNNY.

AND LOTS OF THEM WERE, LIKE I REMEMBER ONE.

THEY WERE IN WALK UPS AND UP THREE FLIGHTS OF STAIRS, AND THIS ONE YOU WENT IN AND THERE WAS A ROOM ABOUT THE SIZE OF OUR TWO CHAIRS, AND THERE WERE FOLDING CHAIRS, AND SO 6 OR 8 OF US SAT DOWN AND TO WAIT FOR THE SHOW TO START.

AND WHEN IT WAS TIME FOR THE SHOW, THEY ASKED US TO BRING OUR CHAIRS IN AND PUT THEM IN THE FRONT ROW, BECAUSE WE WERE SITTING IN THE FRONT ROW OF THE CHAIRS.

HERSCH: YEAH.

KELLAR: IT WAS A GREAT SHOW.

HERSCH: I KNOW.

THERE WAS JUST SORT OF THIS UNDERGROUND ENERGY AND SUBVERSIVENESS AND, YOU KNOW, NOW NEW YORK IS SO EXPENSIVE.

AND I COME BACK TO CINCINNATI TO SEE MY MOM, YOU KNOW, EVERY MONTH OR TWO.

AND, YOU KNOW, FOR A CITY IN THE MIDWEST, CINCINNATI HAS REALLY GOT A LOT GOING FOR IT.

AND NOT TO DISS ANY OTHER PARTICULAR CITIES, BUT, I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT OF CULTURE HERE.

THERE'S BEAUTIFUL PARKS, BEAUTIFUL HOMES, EVERYTHING IS 15 MINUTES FROM ANYWHERE.

YOU KNOW, IT'S A VERY LIVABLE CITY.

AND IT WAS A VERY GOOD PLACE TO GROW UP, YOU KNOW.

AND I HAD A GREAT EDUCATION AT WALNUT HILLS.

I MEAN, I LOOK BACK ON THAT AND SAID, "WOW, I HAD A LOT OF GREAT ADVANTAGES."

KELLAR: WELL, I THINK THERE'S A GOOD REASON THAT WALNUT HILLS GRADUATES ARE SO LOYAL.

HERSCH: YES.

KELLAR: I DON'T KNOW ANY OTHER HIGH SCHOOL THAT HAS-- HERSCH: PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOL.

KELLAR: PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOL THAT HAS THAT KIND OF LOYALTY TO THEIR HIGH SCHOOL ALMA MATER.

HERSCH: YEAH, I KNOW, THERE WAS A 50TH REUNION LAST SUMMER.

I WAS IN EUROPE ON TOUR, SO DIDN'T COME.

BUT I STAY IN TOUCH WITH A NUMBER OF MY CLASSMATES.

AND I THINK SOMETIME WHEN I COME BACK I'M GOING TO TRY TO GO OVER THERE AND GET A LOOK AROUND.

AND I KNOW THEY BUILT ALL KINDS OF NEW BUILDINGS AND ALL THESE THINGS SINCE I WAS THERE, AND I'D LOVE TO SEE IT.

KELLAR: YEAH.

WHEN YOU LEFT FOR NEW YORK, HOW'D YOUR MOM -- WAS YOUR DAD ALIVE AT THAT TIME?

HERSCH: YEAH, MY FATHER WAS ALIVE.

KELLAR: HOW DID THEY FEEL ABOUT YOUR -- THEIR BABY BOY GOING TO NEW YORK?

HERSCH: WELL, THEY WANTED ME TO GET A DEGREE, SO I DID GO TO BOSTON AND GRADUATE.

AND THAT WAS VERY GOOD.

I EXPERIENCED AN EAST COAST CITY.

IT WAS ALSO THE CITY WHERE I CAME OUT.

AND I CAME OUT TO MY PARENTS WHEN I WAS 19, WHICH WAS RATHER UNUSUAL FOR THOSE DAYS.

KELLAR: YEAH.

HERSCH: YOU KNOW, GROWING UP AS A GAY KID IN THE '60S AND '70S, THERE WERE NO ROLE MODELS TO LOOK AT, THERE WAS NO MOVIE STARS OR CONGRESS PEOPLE OR, YOU KNOW, ENTERTAINERS OR -- NO, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY WAS INVISIBLE.

AND SO YOU FELT ALONE.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I JUST I GUESS I WAS JUST AHEAD OF THE CURVE.

AND, YOU KNOW, I'VE ALWAYS BEEN PRETTY STEADFAST IN, YOU KNOW, DOING WHAT I BELIEVE.

THERE'S AN ELEANOR ROOSEVELT QUOTE I LOVE, WHICH SAYS DO WHAT YOU REALLY FEEL IS IN YOUR HEART WHEN YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO DO BECAUSE THEY'LL CRITICIZE YOU FOR IT ANYWAY.

KELLAR: YEAH, EXACTLY.

HERSCH: YOU KNOW, YOU MIGHT AS WELL -- KELLAR: BETTER BE CRITICIZED FOR SOMETHING YOU WANT TO DO THEN -- HERSCH: CORRECT.

CORRECT.

KELLAR: -- YOU DIDN'T WANT TO DO.

HERSCH: YEAH.

AND I BELIEVE IN, YOU KNOW, THE MORE PEOPLE THAT ARE OUT AND VISIBLE, THE EASIER IT IS FOR PEOPLE TO BE OUT AND VISIBLE.

KELLAR: YEAH.

SO YOU'VE WORKED WITH POETS?

HERSCH: YES.

POETRY IS SOMETHING THAT I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN DRAWN TO.

PROBABLY THE MOST NOTABLE COLLABORATION, WHICH WAS WITH A DECEASED POET.

BUT I DID A LARGE SCALE SETTING OF WALT WHITMAN'S LEAVES OF GRASS.

KELLAR: WOW.

HERSCH: FOR A COUPLE OF SINGERS AND AN ENSEMBLE.

THAT WAS A VERY IMPORTANT PROJECT FOR ME.

AND I THINK THOSE WORDS ARE TIMELESS AND TIMELY.

THERE'S A LIVING POET, MARY JO SALTER.

AND WE'VE COLLABORATED ON SONGS AND A SHOW TOGETHER.

AND I'M ALWAYS LOOKING FOR TEXT TO SET.

YOU KNOW, I'M ALWAYS LOOKING AT BOOKS OF POETRY AND SEEING WHAT I MIGHT BE ABLE TO BRING TO IT.

AND, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF POETRY IS VERY MUSICAL ON ITS OWN, AND PUTTING MUSIC TO IT CAN EVEN DIMINISH THE POEM.

SO THERE HAS TO BE, FOR ME, IT'S A VERY VISCERAL THING.

WHEN I SEE IT, I HEAR SOMETHING.

SO, YOU KNOW, THAT GUT THING JUST HAS TO HAPPEN.

KELLAR: YEAH.

WELL, YOU'VE HAD AN INCREDIBLE CAREER.

HERSCH: THANK YOU.

KELLAR: AND WE ARE LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE YOU HERE NOT ONLY TO TALK TO ME, BUT TO PLAY.

HERSCH: WOW.

OKAY.

KELLAR: I CALL THAT VERY, VERY LUCKY.

YOU'RE A WONDERFUL REPRESENTATIVE FOR YOUR CRAFT, AS THEY SAY.

HERSCH: THANK YOU.

KELLAR: WE WANT TO HEAR IF IT'S ALL TALK AND -- HERSCH: OKAY.

NO PROMISES.

I'LL DO MY BEST.

KELLAR: OKAY, GREAT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

HERSCH: THANK YOU, BARBARA.

[MUSIC] CAPTIONS: MAVERICK CAPTIONING CIN OH MAVERICKCAPTIONING.COM