ATTORNEYS WHO ASSISTED THE FALSE ELECTORS.

PETITIONERS IN A LAWSUIT CHALLENGING WISCONSIN'S PRIVATE SCHOOL CHOICE PROGRAM AWAIT WORD FROM THE STATE SUPREME COURT WHETHER IT WILL TAKE THEIR CASE.

THEY WANT THE COURT TO END THE PROGRAM, ARGUING IT VIOLATES THE STATE CONSTITUTION, SAYING THE LEGISLATURE HAS CREATED A CANCER THAT'S KILLING PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

TONIGHT, WE HEAR BOTH SIDES OF THIS CASE, STARTING WITH A LAWYER WHO FILED THE SCHOOL CHOICE LAWSUIT, FREDERICK MELMS.

HE JOINS US FROM MINOCQUA.

THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> SO WHY ARE YOU ASKING THE SUPREME COURT TO TAKES THE AS AN ORIGINAL ACTION RATHER THAN TAKING YOUR LAWSUIT TO CIRCUIT COURT FIRST?

>> WELL, A NUMBER OF REASONS.

THE PRIMARY REASON WE'RE TAKING OUR PETITION DIRECTLY TO THE SUPREME COURT IS INEFFICIENCY.

ULTIMATELY, THIS CASE WINDS UP THERE ANYWAY.

IF WE START IN THE CIRCUIT COURT, WE WIN, WE LOSE, WE APPEAL, THE OTHER SIDE APPEALS, AND WE ARGUE BEFORE THE SUPREME COURT.

THIS SAVES THREE YEARS OF LITIGATION FOR EVERYONE.

A LOT OF WHAT WE ARE ARGUING HAS NOT BEEN DECIDED UPON BEFORE BY THE SUPREME COURT.

THESE ARE MATTERS OF FIRST IMPRESSION.

SO THEY ARE ALSO -- THEY'RE MOST APPROPRIATE COURT TO BE RULING ON OUR ISSUES AS WELL.

>> HOW DISAPPOINTED WERE YOU THAT THE EVERS ADMINISTRATION JOINED ROBIN VOS IN SAYING IT SHOULD, IN FACT, NOT START IN THE HIGH COURT?

>> UMM, YOU KNOW, WE WERE CERTAINLY DISAPPOINTED, BUT, YOU KNOW, THE EVERS ADMINISTRATION AND MISBLOOMEN IF HE WOULD HAVE THEIR OWN AGENDA THAT THEY NEED TO FULFILL.

>> SO YOUR LAWSUIT SAYS THAT SCHOOL VOUCHER PROGRAMS WERE, QUOTE, DESIGNED TO DESTRUCTIVELY DEFUND PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

BUT ISN'T THAT TRUE?

WEREN'T THEY DESIGNED AND STARTED IN THE EARLY KIND OF '90s IN MILWAUKEE TO OFFER PRIVATE SCHOOL CHOICE TO LOW INCOME STUDENTS AND THEIR FAMILIES?

>> SO THE PROGRAMS WE HAVE NOW ARE SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT THAN THAT MILWAUKEE PROGRAM, AND WHAT THEY DO IS, FOR EVERY STUDENT WHO TAKES A VOUCHER OUTSIDE OF MILWAUKEE, THE STATE DEDUCTS THE ENTIRE VALUE OF THAT VOUCHER, WHICH IS, FOR A HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT, ALMOST $13,000, FROM THEIR LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRICT STATE AID.

AND IN A LOT OF THESE DISTRICTS, THE STATE, THEY'RE ONLY GETTING ABOUT $2,000 PER STUDENT.

SO FOR EVERY VOUCHER STUDENT YOU LOSE TO A VOUCHER SCHOOL, YOU'RE LOSING, YOU KNOW, SIX OR SEVEN STUDENTS' WORTH OF STATE AID IN MANY DISTRICTS.

AND THEN YOU EITHER HAVE TO MAKE THAT UP THROUGH THE LOCAL TAX LEVY OR YOUR STUDENTS DON'T GET THE RESOURCE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE.

AND THIS HAS BEEN FELT PARTICULARLY HARD IN ONE OUT OF EVERY THREE DOLLARS OF THEIR LOCAL PROPERTY TAXES IS USED EFFECTIVELY JUST TO BACKFILL THE MONEY TAKEN IN STATE AID TO FUND THE VOUCHER PROGRAM FOR STUDENTS.

IT'S CLOSE TO $4 5 MILLION THAT THE TAXPAYERS ARE BEING ASKED TO PUT UP TO MAKE UP FOR THE AID REDUCTION FROM THE VOUCHER PROGRAM.

>> SO, IN FACT, IN THE LAST SCHOOL YEAR, THE PRIVATE SCHOOL CHOICE PROGRAM COSTS NEARLY 450 MILLION STATE DOLLARS.

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY THAT IS DOING TO THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM?

>> WELL, THAT'S MONEY BEING DIRECTLY REMOVED FROM THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

THAT'S MONEY THE PUB LIC SCHOOLS ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE.

THE STATE OPTIONS WHEN IT SHOWS HOW TO FUND THIS PROGRAM AND THEY CHOSE THE ONE THAT WAS MOST DESTRUCTIVE TO THE TRADITIONAL PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICTS, AND IT'S OUR CONTENTION THAT THIS AS INTENTIONAL AND IT WAS AN INTENTIONAL EFFORT TO DEFUND AND ULTIMATELY DAMAGE PUBLIC EDUCATION IN WISCONSIN.

>> YOU SAY THE PRIVATE VOUCHER SCHOOLS DON'T HAVE ADEQUATE OVERSIGHT OR EDUCATIONAL STANDARDS, WHICH THEIR ADVOCATES DISPUTE IN THEIR FILINGS, BUT WHY WOULD PARENTS THEN CHOOSE THESE SCHOOLS?

>> I MEAN, I THINK THERE'S SOME PRETTY SOLID MARKETING EFFORTS ON BEHALF OF THESE SCHOOLS TO SUGGEST THAT THEY ARE A BETTER CHOICE, AND WHILE THEY MAY BE A BETTER CHOICE FOR SOME STUDENTS, IT'S CERTAINLY NOT THE MAJORITY OF STUDENTS.

I THINK IF YOU LOOK TO THE MOST RECENT TESTING DATA WE SAW ACROSS THE STATE THAT VOUCHER STUDENTS SCORED SIGNIFICANTLY WORSE ON AVERAGE THAN PUBLIC SCHOOL STUDENTS.

SO IN MOST CASES, THESE ARE NOT QUALITY SCHOOLS, AND IF YOU LOOK BACK, YOU KNOW, THROUGHOUT THE HISTORY OF THIS PROGRAM, SOMETHING LIKE 40% OF THEM HAD CLOSED THEIR DOORS ALREADY.

ONLY A 30-YEAR OLD PROGRAM WITH A 40% FAILURE RATE AND THEN THEY LEAVE THESE KIDS STRANDED WHO THEN HAVE TO FIND A PUBLIC SCHOOL.

THIS HAS NOT BEEN A GOOD PROGRAM.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE, MR. MELMS, THANKS VERY MUCH, MR. MELMS, THANKS VERY MUCH,