>> CAN A BUSINESS DISCRIMINATE IF ITS PRODUCT IS SPEECH?.

WE'RE HELPING UKRAINE; WHAT ABOUT HAITI?

AND A CENTRAL NEW YORK INSTITUTION IS CLOSING ITS DOORS.

STAY TUNED, IVORY TOWER IS NEXT.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

ON THE PANEL TONIGHT WE HAVE TARA ROSS FROM ONONDAGA COMMUNITY COLLEGE, ANIRBAN ACHARYA FROM LEMOYNE COLLEGE, NINA MOORE FROM COLGATE UNIVERSITY AND LUKE PERRY FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

FREE EXPRESSION VERSUS PUBLIC ACCOMMODATION LAW WAS ON THE SUPREME COURT DOCKET THIS WEEK, BUT THE BATTLE IS OVER GAY RIGHTS.

A COLORADO WEBSITE DESIGNER SAYS THE STATE'S LAW FORBIDDING DISCRIMINATION WOULD FORCE HER TO BUILD WEDDING WEBSITES FOR GAY COUPLES.

SHE CLAIMS THAT WOULD COMPEL SPEECH WITH WHICH SHE DOESN'T AGREE.

THE COURT IS CONSIDERING WHETHER ARTISTIC OR EXPRESSIVE SERVICES GET FIRST AMENDMENT PROTECTION.

WHAT'S AT STAKE HERE?

>> WELL, I THINK ON THE SURFACE, AS YOU SUGGESTED IT, IT'S A CASE OF FREE SPEECH VERSUS GAY RIGHTS, BUT I THINK BECAUSE THE PLAINTIFFS CLAIM STEM FROM RELIGIOUS BELIEFS, IT REALLY IS A CASE IN WHICH RELIGION IS PITTED AGAINST GAY RIGHTS AND MORE SPECIFICALLY THE FIRST AMENDMENT VERSUS THE 14th AMENDMENT SO DAVE AND EVERYBODY ELSE ON THE PANEL, CAN I LAY MY CARDS ON THE TABLE AND SAY I AM A PENTECOSTAL CHRISTIAN.

I DRANK THE KOOL-AID, I DRANK IT EVERY MORNING SO I GET THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE SINCERELY HELD BELIEFS ABOUT GAY RIGHTS AND THEY DON'T NECESSARILY STEM FROM BIGOTRY, NOR, FOR THAT MATTER, FROM IGNORANCE, BUT RATHER THEIR INTERPRETATION OF THE BIBLE, THE TORAH, THE KORAN, WHATEVER.

SO I JUST WANTED TO PUT THAT OUT THERE.

HAVING SAID ALL THAT, I DO SEE A PROBLEM HERE PRECISELY BECAUSE THE SUPREME COURT HAS FRAMED THIS AS A FIRST AMENDMENT CASE.

BECAUSE IF WE SORT OF, YOU KNOW, MAP THIS ALL THE WAY OUT, THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY THAT ANYONE WHO OFFERS ARTISTIC SERVICES, COULD USE RELIGION OR ANY OTHER FIRST AMENDMENT FREEDOM, TO DENY SERVICES TO OTHER GROUPS, TO DENY SERVICES TO WOMEN WHO DON'T WEAR A HIJAB, AND OR DENY SERVICES AND THIS IS OUT THERE, TO LEFT HANDED PEOPLE BECAUSE THE OLD TESTAMENT CONDEMNED LEFT HANDED PEOPLE OR DENY SERVICES TO JEWS BECAUSE THEY ARE JEWS OR BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT JEWS.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE ARE A DEMOCRACY WHERE GOVERNMENT AND LAWS ARE RULED BY THE PEOPLE.

WE ARE NOT A THEOCRACY IN WHICH PEOPLE'S UNDERSTANDING OR INTERPRETATION OF WHO GOD IS RULES.

>> AND ANIRBAN, THIS IS ABOUT RELIGION, BUT IT'S ALSO ABOUT EXPRESSION, RIGHT?

AND THAT'S WHERE THE FIRST AMENDMENT-- WELL, IT COMES IN IN BOTH.

>> I AGREE WITH YOU.

THE PLAINTIFFS HAVE SAID THAT I AM WILLING TO DESIGN A WEBSITE FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE GAY.

I'M NOT WILLING TO DESIGN A WEDDING WEBSITE FOR A GAY COUPLE.

NOW THE DEFENDANTS, COLORADO STATE, SAY THAT IS THE WRONG WAY TO PUT IT BECAUSE THE PERSON IS NOT CHOOSING THE CONTENT, BUT THE PERSON IS CHOOSING THE IDENTITY OF A PERSON WHO THEY WILL BE PROVIDING THEIR SERVICES TO.

AND THAT IS A PROBLEM AND CAN POTENTIALLY OPEN UP THIS ISSUE WHERE ANYBODY WHO IS PROVIDING AN EXPRESSIVE SERVICE, CAN SAY IT'S MY FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT OF EXPRESSION THAT IS BEING VIOLATED FOR PROVIDING SERVICES TO ANY NUMBER OF PEOPLE: A PERSON GETTING A RAINBOW TATTOO, A TATTOO ARTIST CAN SAY I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT.

I THINK THAT'S THE MORE CHILLING EFFECT THAT CAN HAPPEN OUT OF THIS.

THE MAIN THING IS THAT WE ARE FREE TO CHOOSE A PERSON.

IF I'M A STAND ALONE PHOTOGRAPHER, I CAN CHOOSE WHO I WANT TO PHOTOGRAPH.

BUT IF I'M PUTTING MY SERVICES IN THE MARKETPLACE AND TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE MARKETPLACE, COLORADO LAW SAYS THAT YOU CANNOT SYSTEMATICALLY SHUT OUT A GROUP OF PEOPLE AND THIS IS WHAT I THINK WOULD BE IN CONTEST HERE.

>> THIS COULD CONCEIVABLY APPLY IN CASES OTHER THAN GAY RIGHTS.

I MEAN ALL SORTS OF LEFT HANDED PEOPLE AS YOU SAID.

>> LEFT HANDED PEOPLE.

IT COULD APPLY IN TERMS OF INTERRELIGIOUS RELATIONSHIPS WHERE, YOU KNOW, YOU HAPPEN TO BE HINDU AND YOU DON'T WANT TO, YOU KNOW, DO A WEBSITE FOR A MUSLIM.

THAT SORT OF THING, BECAUSE IT'S AN INTERRACIAL MARRIAGE.

CERTAINLY THIS COULD APPLY TO OTHERS.

BUT ONE OF THE THINGS I FOUND SORT OF COMPLICATING THIS WAS THE PLAINTIFF IN THIS IS ARGUING THAT, AS YOU CORRECTLY STATED, SHE IS WILLING TO PROVIDE THE WEBSITE.

IT'S IN THIS SPECIFIC CASE OF MARRIAGE.

AND THE OTHER COMPONENT OF THE COLORADO LAW IS, SHE CANNOT SAY ON HER WEBSITE THAT, IN ESSENCE, I WILL BE HAPPY DO A WEBSITE FOR YOU AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T DEAL WITH LGBTQ MARRIAGE; WHICH IS WHAT SHE WANTS, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY WANTS TO DO.

SO IN ESSENCE, SHE FEELS LIKE IF I'M MAKING IT CLEAR TO YOU THAT ANY OTHER TYPE OF WEBSITE, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH, BUT THIS VIOLATES MY RELIGIOUS VIEWS, MY RELIGIOUS FREEDOM AND I WON'T DO THAT.

HER ARGUMENT IS THAT PART OF THE COLORADO LAW GOES TOO FAR.

>> AND WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> BOY, YOU WOULD ASK THAT.

I WISH THERE WERE SOME WAY-- AND SHE HAS NOT PROPOSED IT-- AND THIS IS ONE OF THE ISSUES FOR THE COURT.

I WISH THERE WERE SOME WAY TO ADDRESS THAT ISSUE WITHOUT SORT OF OPENING UP A PANDORA'S BOX BECAUSE I DO THINK IF YOU PROVIDE THAT SORT OF EXEMPTION FOR HER, IT DOES OPEN A PANDORA'S BOX.

>> THE COURT IS PRETTY GOOD AT THREADING THE NEEDLES OUT OPENING PANDORA'S BOX.

I DON'T KNOW IF THIS COURT WILL BE LUKE.

>> IT IS A COMPELLING INTEREST TO PROTECT GAY AND LESBIAN PEOPLE FROM DISCRIMINATION, THEY HAVE BEEN DISCRIMINATED AGAINST THROUGHOUT HISTORY AND CIVILIZATION.

COLORADO STATE LAW IS JUSTIFIED.

I'M SENSITIVE TO PEOPLE FEELING LIKE THEY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING THAT FEELS LIKE THEY HAVE TO VIOLENT THEIR INDIVIDUAL CONFERENCE, YOUR POINT WAS WELL TAKEN, NINA.

BUT FOR ME, IN YOU MAY NOT DISAGREE WITH THAT.

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MY PERSONAL VIEWS AND HOW I COMMUNICATE THEM IN MY PERSONAL LIFE.

BUT WHEN I GO TO WORK, THERE IS ANOTHER REALM.

THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS, EVEN IF I HAVE THESE VIEWS THAT I CAN'T SAY BECAUSE OF NON-DISCRIMINATION PROTECTIONS.

I DON'T HAVE DISCRIMINATORY VIEWS BUT HAVE I NO PROBLEMS OF RESTRICTING PEOPLE FROM SAYING THOSE THINGS BECAUSE IT'S IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST TO DO SO.

>> I THINK PART OF THE PROBLEM, AS I THINK YOU WERE GETTING AT, LUKE, BEHIND US ARE THE POLITICS OF NOT RECOGNIZING NOT ONLY THAT THIS COUNTRY HAS DECIDED THAT THERE IS A DISCREET AND INSZ INSULAR MINORITY IN THE FORM OF GAYS WHO NEED SPECIAL PROTECTION.

I MEAN WE COULD SIT HERE AND GO THROUGH THE HISTORY.

I WONDER ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE CAKE BAKER BEFORE AND IN THIS CASE THE PERSON PUTTING TOGETHER THE WEBSITE, HAS CHOSEN THEIR RELIGION TO FOCUS SPECIFICALLY ON THESE GROUPS WHEN THERE ARE SO MANY OTHER THINGS THAT THEY COULD SAY.

THESE ARE THINGS THAT ARE SINFUL AND I DON'T WANT TO BE COMPLICIT IN PROMOTING IT IMRET SOMEHOW THEIR CHRISTIANITY, WHATEVER THE BELIEF IS, IS FOCUSED SPECIFICALLY ON GAYS.

THAT I DON'T GET.

>> AS WE WENT TO WORK AND HAD STUDENTS WHO WERE MARRIED TO SOMEONE OF THE SAME GENDER, I DON'T THINK ANY OF US WOULD THINK IT IS LEGALLY JUSTIFIED TO SAY I'M SORRY.

I CAN'T WORK WITH YOU.

>> HERE AGAIN, THE PERSON IS PROVIDING THAT SERVICE IN A MARKETPLACE.

THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT IN A MARKETPLACE.

I CAN BE A PRIVATE WEBSITE DESIGNER AND I CAN CHOOSE MY CLIENTS AND THERE IS IS ABSOLUTELY FINE.

BUT WHEN I'M TAKING ADVANTAGE OF A MARKETPLACE, I THINK DENYING, BASED ON THE IDENTITY OF A COUPLE OR PEOPLE, WOULD BE A PROBLEMATIC CHILLING EFFECT ACROSS THE BOARD.

AND THAT'S THE ISSUE.

>> THE IDEA OF PUBLIC ACCOMMODATION LAW THAT YOU CAN'T DISCRIMINATE AGAINST A PARTICULAR CLASS OF PEOPLE.

, HOWEVER CLASS IS DEFINED.

>> WELL, THERE IS THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS WHICH IS IN THE MASTERPIECE CASE.

THE COLORADO CIVIL RIGHTS COMMISSION THAT SORT OF CLEARED IT TO GO TO THE SUPREME COURT DID MAKE VERY DISPARAGING COMMENTS ABOUT THE BAKER'S RELIGION RELIGIOUS BELIEFS.

SO WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT THAT THERE IS AS WELL.

SO YOU HAVE TO ANTICIPATE THE COURT WILL, IN SOME WAY, PUSH BACK AGAINST THAT TENDENCY TO SORT OF MAKE RELIGIOUS PEOPLE INTO NUT CASES.

>> NUT CASES SEEMS A LITTLE STRONG, WOULDN'T YOU SAY?

>> HAVE YOU TO WATCH SOME OF THE STUFF, DAVE.

IT'S OUT THERE.

>> WITH ALL THE ATTENTION PAID TO UKRAINE, A HUMANITARIAN CATASTROPHE MUCH CLOSER TO HOME HAS GOTTEN VERY LITTLE ATTENTION.

HAITI IS IN FREE FALL • A HELLSCAPE OF GANG WARFARE, KIDNAPPING, MURDER AND ESSENTIALLY NO EFFECTIVE GOVERNMENT.

MILLIONS OF PEOPLE FACE HUNGER, A CHOLERA OUTBREAK HAS KILLED HUNDREDS.

THE PRESIDENT WAS GUNNED DOWN IN HIS OWN HOME MORE THAN A YEAR AGO, AND HAS NOT BEEN REPLACED.

THE PRIME MINISTER HAS ASKED FOR AN ARMED INTERNATIONAL FORCE TO INTERVENE.

SHOULD PRESIDENT BIDEN SEND IN THE MARINES?

YOU KNOW, WHENEVER THE UNITED STATES WANTS TO HELP HAITI, I SHUDDER AND OBSERVERS OF HAITIAN POLITICS SHUDDER AROUND THE WORLD.

IT IS ALMOST LIKE GIVING AN ARSONIST A POSITION AS A FIREFIGHTER.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF HAITI, WITHIN THE INTERSECTION OF FRENCH AND AMERICAN COLONIALISM, IMPERIALISM, NEW YORK STATE HAS A GREAT ARTICLE CALLED RANSOM THAT LOOKS AT THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF COLONIALISM AND RACISM AND SO ON AND ARIEL IS AN EXTREMELY UNPOPULAR PRESIDENT AND SO WAS THE PRESIDENT BEFORE.

AND THEY HAD APPROPRIATED AND PLUNDERED THE FUNDS THAT WAS EXTREMELY GENEROUSLY GIVEN BY VENEZUELA.

VENEZUELA GAVE A FUND TO PAY 60% OF THE OIL PRICE NOW AND THE REST THEY WOULD PAY IN 25 YEARS WITH 1% INTEREST AND THE REST OF THE $4 BILLION WERE SUPPOSED TO GO TO DEVELOPMENT INITIATIVES.

AND THEN U.S.

PROPPED UP THIS DICK DICTATOR AFTER DICTATOR AND THEY DIDN'T DO ANYTHING.

>> WHAT IF IT IS AN INTERNATIONAL FORCE.

>> AGAIN, THE INTERNATIONAL FORCE, WE SAW WHAT HAPPENED IN THE U.N.

THE U.N. BROUGHT IN COL CHOLERA AND THEN THEY RAPED AND BLUNDER PLUNDERED.

>> HAITI IS GOING TO HELL IN A HAND BASKET.

>> THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION.

WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS GET OUT OF OUR AMERICAN DRIVEN INTERNATIONAL HIGH HORSE AND ACTUALLY LISTEN TO WHAT THE HAITIAN CIVIL SOCIETY IS SAYING.

ESPECIALLY LOOK AT KIM IVIS WHO RUNS HAITIAN LIBERTY AND THEY'RE CONTINUOUSLY SAYING THAT THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN PUT FORWARD BY THE CLINTON AND THEN OBAMA AND THEN ARIEL ARI, THEY'RE EXTREMELY UNPOPULAR.

THEY'RE RUNNING A NEW KIND OF FORCE WITH SECRET POLICE.

THEY'RE KIDNAPPING AND MURDERING SO THAT'S THE HAITIAN GOVERNMENT THAT'S THE GANG HERE, RIGHT?

THE BEST WAY IS TO LISTEN TO THE HAITIAN PEOPLE AND GET AERIAL ARI OUT.

>> THERE IS A U.S. INTEREST, IS THERE NOT, LUKE, IN PREVENTING LARGE NUMBERS OF OF PEOPLE GETTING OUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S A HUMANITARIAN ISSUE.

BUT ALSO A LARGE NUMBER OF MIGRANTS ALL OF A SUDDEN SHOWING UP IN FLORIDA.

>> THAT IS AN ISSUE.

I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO BE SOLVED THROUGH MILITARY INTERVENTION, AS YOU POINTED OUT.

TO ME THE HUMANITARIAN CRISIS STANDS OUT.

AND YOU REFERENCED UKRAINE AND I THINK IT'S DIFFERENT.

THIS IS A WAR CIVIL WAR WHERE POLITICAL AND ECONOMIC ELITES HAVE ALIGNED WITH GANGS AND LITERALLY ARE KILLING PEOPLE IN THE STREET, RAPING GIRLS AND WOMEN.

AND SO THE HUMAN BEING IN ME WISHES THAT THERE WAS SOMETHING SIMPLE THAT COULD BE DONE TO STOP THAT BECAUSE I THINK IF YOU TALK TO PEOPLE THERE, THEY DON'T WANT THE VIOLENCE.

THEY DON'T WANT TO LIVE IN FEAR.

THEY WANT TO LEAVE AND THEY CAN'T LEAVE OR THEY WANT TO STAY AND BE SAFE.

AND THERE IS NO GOOD OPTIONS FOR HOW TO DO THAT.

I THINK IT HAS TO BE NEGOTIATION WITH THE ELITES THAT ARE INVOLVED TO GET SOME TYPE OF SELF DETERMINED POWER SHARING SYSTEM IN PLACE, BUT WHO CAN USHER THAT IN AND HOW THAT IS GOING TO TAKE SHAPE IS VERY UNCLEAR.

>> WELL, IN THE MEANTIME, I THINK WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT WE CAN NO LONGER EITHER POLICE THE ENTIRE WORLD, NOR, FOR THAT MATTER, SAVE THE ENTIRE WORLD.

NOT THAT WE EVER COULD.

WE ARE ALSO NO LONGER IN THE SORT OF SITUATION WHERE WE WERE ABLE TO RESTRUCTURE EUROPE IN THE WAKE OF WORLD WAR II; HOWEVER, HOWEVER, HOWEVER, HOWEVER.

WE GAVE AWAY BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN HUMANITARIAN AID AND I THINK THERE IS A CASE TO BE MADE HERE TO REALLOCATE THE FORM FORMULA FOR ALLOCATING HUMANITARIAN AID IN A WAY THAT WOULD BENEFIT HAITI GREATER THAN-- TO A GREATER EXTENT THAN IS HAPPENING NOW.

I'LL SAY THIS, ALSO.

I THINK THE CASE OF HAITI, MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE, JUSTIFIES MY -- HOW AM I GOING TO PUT IT-- MY DISPOSITION TOWARD PROGRESSIVES AND TO BE MORE FRANK.

IT SORT OF REVEALS THE HYPOCRISY OF PROGRESSIVES BECAUSE OF HOW THEY, THE HAITIANS WERE TREATED THE LAST FALL.

THE AMERICAN-- WHAT IS IT CALLED?

AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL HAS ISSUED A REPORT TALKING ABOUT THE BRUTAL TREATMENT, AND I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE HORSES, BUT THE BRUTAL TREATMENT OF THOSE ON THE BORDER AND THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION SO I THINK SOME OF THE REASON WHY WE HAVE NOT ELEVATED THIS TO MAKE THIS AN IMPORTANT ISSUE JUST AS IMPORTANT AS UKRAINE IS BECAUSE OF OUR DISREGARD FOR HAITI.

>> I ABSOLUTELY AGREE.

IN MANY WAYS, HAITI IS THE AFGHANISTAN IN OUR BACKYARD.

HAITI HAS BEEN-- EVERY TIME WE HAVE TRIED TO GO IN AND QUOTE UNQUOTE FIX HAITI, WE HAVE FAILED AND AMERICANS DO NOT LIKE TO ADMIT THAT WE FAIL.

WE DON'T LIKE TO ADMIT THAT OUR ASSISTANCE ONLY MADE THINGS WORSE.

AND SO THAT CERTAINLY MAKES US HESITANT TO GO IN.

I THINK ONE OF THE OTHER PROBLEMS IS, YOU TALK ABOUT PEOPLE WORKING ON THE GROUND AND ASK THE HAITIANS THEMSELVES.

THE AVERAGE HAITIAN WOULD PROBABLY TELL YOU NO, WE DON'T WANT THE GANGS.

NO, WE WANT A BETTER ALLOCATION OF WHATEVER HUMANITARIAN AID COMES IN.

BUT THEN YOU HAVE TO FIND SOMEONE STRONG ENOUGH THAT ALSO IS SADLY GOING TO HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF POWER TO STEP FORWARD AND BE IN CHARGE.

YOU KNOW, WHEN YOUR GANGS ARE SO BAD THAT THEY GO INTO THE PRESIDENT'S HOUSE AND BASICALLY MURDER HIM AND YOU CAN'T EVEN FIND SOMEONE TO REPLACE HIM, YOU'VE GOT A MAJOR INTERNAL STRUCTURE PROBLEM.

AND I DON'T-- I'M NOT SURE THAT CERTAINLY I RIGHT NOW CANNOT COME UP WITH A SOLUTION.

I'M NOT SURE THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT OR THE U.N. HAS OR CAN REALLY FIGURE OUT WHAT IS THE SOLUTION TO THAT BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO BOTH CLEAN OUT THE GANGS, ARREST AND IMPRISON AND GET THEM OUT OF HAITI THOSE GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS WHO ARE WORKING WITH THE GANGS.

AND THEN FIND SOMEONE WITHIN HAITI WHO IS STRONG ENOUGH TO STEP FORWARD AND CAN LEAD AND WON'T BE SUBJECT TO CORRUPTION.

>> SO ONE OF THE LIBERATION THEOLOGY, 67% VOTE AND AMERICA WEND AND COUPED HIM.

>> WE HAVE TO MOVE ON.

WE WILL BE HEARING MORE ABOUT HAITI CERTAINLY.

ONE OF THE OLDEST COLLEGES IN THE STATE AND A CENTRAL NEW YORK INSTITUTION, IS CLOSING.

CAZENOVIA COLLEGE ANNOUNCED THIS WEEK THAT IT WILL SHUT DOWN AFTER THE SPRING SEMESTER.

ENROLLMENT HAD BEEN DECLINING IN RECENT YEARS, AND THE COLLEGE COULD NOT MEET ITS FINANCIAL OBLIGATIONS.

THIS IS SAD NEWS FOR A LOT OF REASONS •THE IMPACT ON THE STUDENTS, FACULTY AND STAFF, AND THE COMMUNITY.

HIGHER ED IS HEADING INTO SOME TURBULENT WATERS.

A NUMBER OF PRIVATE SCHOOLS MAY BE IN JEOPARDY.

WHAT'S GOING ON?

WELL, THIS IS PART OF A NATIONWIDE PROBLEM.

AND IT HAS MANY FACTORS.

AND I'LL START WITH SAYING THAT THE PANDEMIC ONLY MADE WHAT WAS ALREADY A PROBLEM WORSE.

THERE IS INCREASED COMPETITION.

THERE ARE MORE SCHOOLS.

CERTAINLY THERE ARE MORE ONLINE SCHOOLS.

MOST COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES NOW HAVE PROGRAMS THAT ALLOW HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS TO TAKE COLLEGE COURSES.

AND YOU MIGHT THINK WELL, THE COLLEGE IS STILL GETTING THE MONEY.

BUT WHAT THAT DOESN'T DO IS PULL THOSE STUDENTS ON TO THE CAMPUS TO DO THE TYPE OF SPENDING THEY DO ON AN ACTUAL COLLEGE CAMPUS SO THAT'S HARMFUL.

YOU ALSO HAVE THE PRESSURE TO LOWER TUITION.

INCREASINGLY YOU HAVE A PUBLIC THAT SAYS I DON'T WANT TO SPEND 40, $50,000 A YEAR FOR MY CHILD'S EDUCATION AND THEN THEY COME OUT AND THEY END UP WITH A JOB AT WAL-MART, WHICH, YOU KNOW, HAD BEEN A PROBLEM FOR QUITE SOMETIME.

IT'S GETTING BETTER BUT HAS BEEN A PROBLEM.

SO THAT'S A PROBLEM.

THE STATES AND CERTAINLY MANY COUNTIES, ARE NOT PROVIDING ENOUGH FUNDING.

SO THOSE ARE JUST SOME OF THE PROBLEMS.

>> I'M SORRY, NINA, YOU WERE ABOUT TO MAKE A COMMENT.

>> I WASN'T, BUT I WILL.

I GUESS MY QUESTION, TARA IS WHY HAVE ALL OF THESE PROBLEMS CONVERGED SPECIFICALLY IN CAZENOVIA COLLEGE?

HERE IN UPSTATE, SOME OTHER UNIVERSITIES AND SMALL LIBERAL ARTS COLLEGES ARE FAIRING QUITE WELL.

I'M NOT GOING BRAG AND SAY WHICH IS ONE OF THOSE, BUT THE PANDEMIC HIT EVERYONE HARD.

THE FACT THAT YOU'VE GOT A SHRINKING COLLEGE AGE POPULATION HIT EVERYONE HARD.

THE FACT THAT THE BOND MARKET RAN INTO PROBLEMS HIT EVERYONE HARD.

SO WHY CAZENOVIA?

BUT MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE, THIS IS AN INSTITUTION THAT HAS BEEN STRONG FOR 200 YEARS.

SO WHY CAZENOVIA AND WHY NOW?

AND HAVE WE GIVEN SERIOUS THOUGHT TO THE FACT THAT THERE COULD BE SOME INTERNAL ISSUES THERE?

>> I WOULD ARGUE THAT WE HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THE INTERNAL ISSUES YET.

I'M HOPING THAT THAT WILL HAPPEN BECAUSE I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH YOU.

YOU DO NOT GET TO THIS POINT OVERNIGHT.

YOU DON'T EVEN GET TO THIS POINT OVER FIVE YEARS.

AND IT MAKES ONE WONDER WHO WAS ASLEEP AT THE WHEEL IN TERMS OF THE ACCOUNTING AT THE SCHOOL.

>> LUKE,-- CAZ AND OTHER PLACES ARE TUITION DRIVEN IN MANY WAYS.

THAT COULD BE AN ISSUE.

>> IT IS A FACTOR CAN CAZENOVIA COLLEGE.

TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, WHY ARE OTHER COLLEGES DIFFERENT PERHAPS LIKE SMALL IVIES?

I THINK IT'S PRESTIGE AND ENDOWMENT.

LOOK AT UTICA UNIVERSITY.

WE ARE ENROLLMENT DRIVEN.

WE ARE FACING A NUMBER OF CHALLENGES RELATED TO THE PANDEMIC AND LARGER TRENDS ABOUT LESS PEOPLE THAT ARE NOW TRADITIONAL AGE TO GO TO SCHOOL AND INSTITUTIONS HAVE TO ADAPT.

IT'S TOUGH.

I UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS A BUSINESS AND YOU HAVE TO BE SOLVENT TO FUNCTION BUT GENERAL EDUCATION GETS CUT, MAJORS GET CUT AND THE OVERALL QUALITY OF HIGHER EDUCATION, I THINK, IS BEING DIMINISHED SO YOU HAVE TO FIND A BALANCE TO MAKE SURE INSTITUTIONS STAY SOLVENT BUT AT THE SAME TIME I WORRY ABOUT THE FUTURE OF HIGHER EDUCATION.

>> ANIRBAN, THERE IS A QUESTION AS WELL.

MANY PEOPLE NOW, THERE IS LESS ENTHUSIASM FOR TRADITIONAL LIBERAL ARTS EDUCATION.

>> I SUPPOSE THAT IS THE CASE.

AND I THINK THE MAIN REASONS THIS ENDOWMENT GAME AND THIS MASSIVE KIND OF EXPONENTIAL INFLATION IN CHILDREN.

MORE AND MORE SO HERE IS MY SOUNDBITE THE U.S. EDUCATION SYSTEM KIND OF LOOKS LIKE CLASSROOM ATTACHED TO HEDGE FUNDS.

SO THE STUDENTS ARE CLEARLY NOT VERY CONFIDENT IN TAKING OUT THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF LOANS BASED ON FUTURE INCOME THAT THEY'RE NOT VERY SURE WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE AND THAT IS GOING TO HIT COLLEGES AROUND THE UNITED STATES.

>> SO SOME TOUGH TIMES AHEAD, NOT ONLY FOR CAZENOVIA BUT OTHER PLACES AS WELL.

WE DO HAVE TO MOVE TO OUR As AND Fs.

TARA.

>> THE RECENTLY ELECTED FAR RIGHT GOVERNMENT IN ISRAEL.

ALTHOUGH THEY HAVE ONLY BEEN IN POWER FOR A FEW MONTHS, THE CONSERVATIVE MEMBERS OF THIS GOVERNMENT HAVE ENFLAMED THE ANTI-PALESTINIAN SENTIMENT AND THEY'RE PROMISING TO BRING ORDER AND TO BE MORE OF A LANDLORD IN THE GAZA STRIP.

THIS IS ONLY GOING TO UNCREASE VIOLENCE.

>> ANIRBAN.

>> MY F TO THE QATAR INHUMANE TREATMENT OF MIGRANT WORKERS THAT HAVE MADE THE 2022 FOOTBALL WORKUP POSSIBLE.

THEY HAVE FAILED TO INVESTIGATE THE DEATH OF THOUSANDS OF MIGRANT WORKERS OVER THE PAST DECADE DESPITE EVIDENCE OF LINKS BETWEEN PREMATURE DEATHS AND UNSAFE WORKING CONDITIONS.

AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL NOTED IN A REPORT, AND I HOPE THIS REPORT EXPOSES AND KICKS OFF SOME ETHICAL ACTION AMONG THE ORGANIZERS AND FANS OF THE BEAUTIFUL GAME.

>> I'M GIVING AN F TO SAN FRANCISCO'S DECISION TO BACK PEDAL A PLAN TO ALLOW POLICE TO USE ROBOTS TO DEPLOY LETHAL FORCE IN MASS SHOOTER SITUATIONS.

IT'S NOT THAT I SUPPORT POLICE ROBOTS OR OPPOSE THEM FOR THAT MATTER.

IT'S JUST THAT GOVERNMENTAL POLICY SHOULD BE MADE ON THE BASIS OF REASON AND DELIBERATION, NOT EMOTION AND CATCH PHRASES LIKE MILITARIZED POLICING.

WHATEVER THAT MEANS.

>> LUKE.

>> TO THE NEW YORK TIMES OVER A PROFITABLE NEWSPAPER NOW INVOLVED IN A LABOR DISPUTE.

THEY SHOULD COMPROMISE WITH EMPLOYEES AND SETTLE THE CONTRACT.

>> LET'S GO TO THE As.

TARA.

>> MY A GOES TO 18-YEAR-OLD EXPWRAI LIN SMITH WHO YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN.

HE IS THE YOUNGEST AFRICAN-AMERICAN TO BE ELECTED MAYOR.

HE WAS ELECTED MAYOR OF EARL, ARKANSAS AND IS FOCUSING ON HOW TO MAKE HIS SMALL COMMUNITY BETTER BY BRINGING IN A NEW GROCERY STORE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

MAYOR SMITH.

ANIRBAN, YOUR A.

>> MY A GOES TO THE IRAN AND WOMEN AND ALLIES AROUND THE WORLD WHO LED PROTEST AGAINST THE MORALITY POLICE THAT KILLED MASA FOR NOT COVERING HER HEAD.

THE IRANIAN STATE SEEMS TO BE BACKING DOWN BUT THE WORLDWIDE STRUGGLE FOR KEEPING THE STATE OUT OF WOMEN'S FREEDOM TO CHOOSE CONTINUES.

>> THE POST STANDARD REPORTED EARLIER THIS WEEK AT ONONDAGA LAKE IS AT ITS CLEANEST IN 100 YEARS.

THERE WAS A TIME DURING THE 60s AND 70s WHEN TOXIC MERCURY, SEWAGE, BACTERIA AND OTHER HAZARDS POLLUTED THE LAKE.

NOW IT'S CLEAN ENOUGH THAT ONONDAGA COUNTY MIGHT OPEN A BEACH.

IT'S A REMARKABLE CASE OF TURNING A CESSPOOL INTO A COMMUNITY ASSET.

PERHAPS WE CAN DO THAT IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

>> LUKE, FOLLOW THAT.

>> MY A GOES TO MARQUIS SIDINGS BY THE YANKEES AND METS WHO CAN SPEND THE REST OF HIS CAREER HERE IN NEW YORK.

>> THANK YOU, SO OKAYED ONONDAGA LAKE, THAT IS A REMARKABLE CLEANUP STORY, NOT AS CLEAN AS IT COULD BE, OF COURSE BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE WITHIN THE LOCAL COMMUNITY AND THE GOVERNMENT AND, OF COURSE, THE SUPER FUND LAW, HAD QUITE A BIT TO DO WITH IT.

>> ABSOLUTELY DRIVEN BY CITIZEN EFFORT.

AND SO IT'S A SIGN OF WHAT MORE CAN HAPPEN.

>> IS IT SAFE TO SWIM?

>> WELL, THEY'RE THINKING-- >> ONE END.

>> EVENTUALLY.

>> ON THE NORTHERN END.

THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT TAKING A SWIM THERE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

FOR COMMENTS YOU CAN WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO VIEW THE SHOW AGAIN YOU CAN VIEW IT ONLINE AT WCNY.ORG.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FOR ALL OF US AT IVORY TOWER, HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.