- [Speaker] This is a production of WEDU PBS, Tampa, St. Petersburg, Sarasota.

- [Rob] Next on WEDU, Hillsborough county's elected state attorney sues governor DeSantis over limiting his freedom to speak.

The race between Charlie Crist and Nikki Fried for the Democratic nomination for governor is getting more bitter as we near election day.

A 16 year old in North Florida is denied the right to an abortion and our panel members will tell us which down ballot race they are watching most closely in Tuesday's elections.

All coming up right now on "Florida this Week".

(dramatic music) Welcome back this week our panelists are Rochelle Reback, is a retired criminal defense and civil rights lawyer and a Democrat.

Trimmel Gomes is a journalist and president of Gomes Media Strategies.

Adam Goodman is the Edward R. Murrow fellow at Tufts University, a political consultant and a Republican, and Mitch Perry is a political reporter for Spectrum Bay News 9.

Nice to see all of you.

Thank you for coming on the program.

On Thursday Hillsborough's elected state attorney Andrew Warren, who was suspended by the governor just over two weeks ago, sued the governor in federal court.

- [Reporter] In his order, removing Warren at the beginning of this month, governor DeSantis accused the state attorney of neglective duty and incompetence.

According to the governor, Warren was eroding the rule of law, encouraging lawlessness and usurping the role of the legislature.

In suspending him, the governor cited two statements, Warren had signed along with district attorneys from across the country, pledging to refrain from prosecuting people who seek or provide abortions.

The other statement, condemned laws that criminalize some transgender care.

So far, Florida has no such law on the books.

Warren said he has a right to take a public stand on issues and that the governor is interfering with the will of the voters and the First Amendment.

- I work for the people of Hillsborough county.

That's who I've always worked for.

The people who elected me because they shared my vision of criminal justice.

They trusted my judgment, and then they reelected me because they saw the results.

And let's talk about the results for a minute, Hillsborough county has the lowest crime rate of any county in the Tampa Bay Area, the lowest crime rate of any major county in Florida.

Our crime rate has gone down nearly 30% over the last five years.

I mean, these are the facts.

So when the governor is saying things about the job I did or didn't do, that's not what this is about.

This is about what I've said, not about the job that I did as state attorney.

- Adam, let's go to you first, is the governor infringing on Andrew Warren's free speech rights?

- Well, certainly, this governor is testing a lot of new limits across the board.

Yeah, you go back to the Disney case.

You see how that turned out for Walt Disney, when their numbers went... Catapulting from American Icon down to earth.

I think what you see here is gonna be a test of whether or not people feel when someone raises their hand and takes an oath of office to do something, and they don't do that or perceived not to do that or unwilling to do that.

What are the ramifications of that?

What is the recourse course of public has?

And in this case, it's gonna be more about reputation than it is about the law.

I think, at least short term, you see that Andrew Warren has not only lawyered up, he has PRd up.

He's gotten a lot of help around that piece of it, he knows that the court of public opinion, that will judge the narrative, and right now the narrative I have to say, Rob, is whether or not Andrew Warren, who were to uphold law and order is essentially salt on crime and law and order.

And because of that, is that enough of an offense to remove him from office?

I think that's a narrative that he's gonna have to fight and try to win because if not, he's gonna turn kind of momentary fame into infamy.

And I think of course his chances of prevailing in the state senate, much less the courts are not promising.

- Well, Andrew Warren says that crime is lower in Hillsborough county than the surrounding counties.

But Shelly, I wanna ask you, what specifically did Andrew Warren do?

Was it... - Not a thing.

Not a thing.

He's been suspended or removed from office for what he said, for talking about policies that he disagrees with governor DeSantis on.

He hasn't done anything.

No cases have been brought to his office by law enforcement seeking to prosecute a woman or a physician for an abortion related crime.

No cases...

There isn't even a law on the books to bring a case to his office on the issue of transgender medical care.

So he's done nothing.

This is strictly about...

This is political theater because he has spoken out and disagreed with policies of the governor and the Republican legislature.

And this is raw power on DeSantis's part.

- Trimmel, I wanna play a commercial that the governor is running and let's put it up right now.

The governor's running on a platform of freedom and this... Let's play this, and then I wanna get your comment about it.

- [Speaker] We make decisions based on facts, not fear, but some want to take it all away.

We cannot stop fighting.

This November, let's show the world.

Freedom is here to stay.

- So that is essentially the governor's campaign for reelection Trimmel.

And the governor says, "Look, I brought freedom from masks.

"I opened up the state and now I'm going after attorneys "like Andrew Warren, "who is not following what I would like him to do."

But on the other side, you've got people that say, "Look, the governor is interfering with the teaching "of history.

"He's interfering with what teachers "can say to their classrooms.

"He's interfering with a woman's right to choose."

This issue of freedom, how does it look to you there in Tallahassee?

- It's a good campaign ad and it speaks to his base.

That he is offering freedom, like you know, throughout the COVID pandemic, that he refused to lock down the state and allowed people to move around.

But that freedom has limits.

As we're seeing in Mr. Warren's case, if you cross the governor, he tries to take your freedom.

And with his case ongoing, legal experts expect Warren to prevail on the First Amendment standpoint, because as mentioned earlier, he... And Warren has claimed it's only he made a pledge and that's protected speech.

There are no cases before him.

So he was basically just expressing his opinion.

And what we're seeing here with the governor is like if you express an opinion against the governor's will, and he does not like the decent.

- Mitch, the governor looks to have a favorable...

I'm sorry.

Andrew Warren looks to have a favorable judge in the federal courts in Tallahassee where he's filed the lawsuit.

But then people say, when you get to the Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta, it doesn't look so good for Andrew Warren.

But as Trimmel just said, this issue of free speech may work at least on the first court level.

- Yeah.

Who can predict that?

Obviously it was better for Andrew Warren seemingly to go to the courts, a federal courts, than through the Republican led state senate.

This is an explosive story.

And I saw, thinking about this, I was at the press conference 15 days ago when this happened and it was pretty stunning.

And look, there are these progressive DA state attorneys around the country that have gotten a lot of attention for maybe being as Adam would say, soft on crime.

We're talking about the DA in San Francisco, Boudin, who was thrown out of office, Gascon in Los Angeles, who almost was, Alvin Bragg in New York.

Andrew Warren is he really.... Is he in that category?

I don't believe he is, but he's the closest one in Florida.

So governor DeSantis can make a statement.

I think the governor likes to get kind, almost like nationalized or federalize, a lot of events that are going on in other states that he wants to bring home here.

It works for him.

He's been very successful.

Again, Adam mentioned Disney, and governor DeSantis has done things that no other Republican governor has done and been "winning on these".

Has he gone too far on this one?

Wait to watch and see how it plays out.

Andrew Warren is being, I think really effective in making a lot of...

Being on communications, being on cable news every day, making his fight to the public.

And I think if he doesn't prevail in the courts, he may just come back and run again in 2024.

- All right, Adam, I gotta ask you, does the governor deserve the freedom moniker if he's taking away Andrew Warren's free speech as Andrew Warren claims, if he's taking away Disney's free speech as Disney claims, does the governor deserve the freedom moniker?

- Well, of course, that's your interpretation of it, that he's taking away their freedom.

Let's comment on the ad.

I'm an ad maker, I can't help it, right?

It's television.

When he talks about freedom , and I think about the recent ad from the governor of California, Gavin Newsom, who was basic... His message to anyone who will listen is, "Look what they're doing in Florida.

"They're depriving you of your freedom, come to California."

Well, the numbers say, it isn't working.

For the first time in history, there's been an out migration of people from California.

Last year, over 300,000 people moved into the state of Florida.

They feel something, Rob.

They understand something that is beyond all the rhetoric, which is freedom means the ability to have opportunities in Florida that you can't have in most other places, perceptionally, at least in the country.

And they're voicing that opinion, not in political polls, they're voicing that with their feet and moving into this state.

So I think this is a winner, frankly, for the governor overall, because of the Florida story, which is the biggest story I think, of the 2022 campaign season in Florida itself.

- Yeah.

All right.

Shelly, let me give you the last word on this question of freedom.

- Yeah, because I've got two things I wanna point out.

Number one, just yesterday in Tallahassee, governor DeSantis was struck down on his stop woke law in so far as it purported to restrict the speech of private businesses as to what they could talk to their own employees about with regard to race and gender, diversity, equity and inclusion.

His law stop woke as it applied to business was struck down on First Amendment grounds.

So I think that Andrew is on very strong ground going into his litigation and claiming a violation of his First Amendment rights.

That's number one.

Legally, I think he's on strong ground.

Number two, lost in this discussion is the voters.

The voters of Hillsborough county who elected Andrew Warren, 370,000 of them elected Andrew Warren.

That's almost twice as many voters as the voters who voted for DeSantis in his election.

370 for Andrew Warren, when he was reelected and 235,000 for DeSantis in his last election in Hillsborough county.

All of those voters have been disenfranchised.

They chose Andrew Warren who was very transparent about his position on these issues and his policies.

And they chose him, they elected him, and now the governor is come in and big footed and say, "No, your vote doesn't count."

And I think that's deplorable.

- Okay, we're gonna talk more about Andrew Warren and this whole question of governor DeSantis and freedom in the coming weeks.

So we're gonna go onto our next story.

Primary election day, is this coming Tuesday with the marquee race on the Democratic side, the race for governor between former governor, Charlie Crist and agriculture commissioner, Nikki Fried.

- [Reporter] In the last few weeks, Fried's ads have attacked Crist for decisions and stances he took when he was in office as a Republican.

Fried and her supporters have been pounding Crist for being anti-abortion and for positions he took as governor, attorney general and while in the state legislature.

- Wanna know the difference between me and Charlie Crist?

Is not just that I'm pro-choice and he's pro-life.

Look at our records on criminal justice.

While I was a public defender, fighting to keep innocent Floridians out of jails like this, he was passing mandatory minimums during the racist war on drugs.

People are still in jail today because of it.

- [Reporter] Crist is firing back, attacking Fried for previously supporting Republicans.

- [Speaker] Early Crist campaigned for Barack Obama, Nikki Fried campaigned for Florida Republicans.

When Crist was working to elect pro-choice Democratic women, Fried was calling for Hillary Clinton to be arrested and was close pals with accused sex trafficker, Matt Gaetz.

- So Mitch, those are pretty tough ads.

Is Fried going to gain any traction by attacking Crist on issues like abortion or mandatory minimums?

- Well, I think it was a very effective ad that you showed there.

It is part of Charlie's record.

And on abortion rights itself, she has definitely been really pushing, I think anybody who watches these ads sees that.

Whether it makes a difference, well, look, there was this University of North Florida poll this week, some calling an outlier that actually has her leading, whether that's true or not, there is a feeling of perception that she's gaining on Charlie Crist, who has basically been the favorite throughout the whole campaign cycle.

And now that you're really appealing to primary voters, Charlie's GOP past is there.

I mean, it's a legitimate thing to look at.

And on abortion rights, which again, since Roe V Wade came down it's a huge issue, right?

Obviously, and it makes so, so much sense for her to use that as a cajole against him.

And we just have to see, I really think this is gonna be a close race on Tuesday night, in a way that we haven't seen a two person Democratic primary in two decades, when Bill McBride beat Janet Reno, and it took a week to decide that.

- Yeah.

All right.

So Trimmel, what do you think?

Charlie Crist has been out of the statewide spotlight for a while, do you think those Fried ads are effective?

- I think it's gaining traction and it's working.

And you're seeing when you're watching Twitter, the criticism from fellow Democrats against Nikki Fried for bringing up those issues, folks complain in the threads about the infighting, hoping that they would both settle down and cool the temperatures to work together.

So when you see that back and forth online, you're seeing that how it is gaining traction for former governor, Charlie Crist.

His past will be there.

It will always be there to haunt him.

And it's on him to show the people, Democrats, that he is no longer Republican.

And that's something that's working for Fried, and being able to call that out at every turn.

- Shelly, do you think that with the importance of women voters this year and the abortion issue being in the background to all the races, of both the August primary and the general election, that Fried's ads might be effective?

- Well, they might be.

It is going to be a Roevember in November.

We are looking forward to that.

But I also wanna point out that at the same time, there's been a lot of press about the fact that Nikki Fried is losing some progressives, because she's been taking GOP PAC money and she's been taking dark money for her campaign.

And some of the progressive clubs around the state have actually unendorsed her because of that information that's come out.

And also for being soft on big ag, on big agriculture.

- [Rob] Big sugar.

- Big sugar in particular, yeah.

Because the local citizens in the places where sugar is burned, are primarily minority, low income people, and she hasn't done enough for them according to reports out of the Palm Beach Post, for example.

And so I think that she has some things that voters are concerned about as well.

- And she's taking money from Florida Power & Light too.

- Right.

That's right.

- All right.

So Adam, you have done TV ads, really good ads for years, do you think that that Fried ads is gonna help her?

- Actually, I think both ads were very effective, but I think that the die was cast.

Charlie's Achilles's heel was always gonna be, he wasn't always a Democrat and that was gonna come back to haunt him.

But he started with a big base, especially in the Southeast, the UNF poll you cited, no offense to the UNF, but they called it wrong in the presidential in 16, the gubernatorial in 18 and the presidential in 20.

So I think it's an outlier.

Most of the polls are showing that Charlie is likely to win, the problem for both though, the problem for both of them, is what is their winning message in the fall?

In the primary, I understand it, 'cause abortion and guns is pretty much near at the top of the chart for Democrats in the primary.

What do they have as a message against the seating governor that is and Andrew Warren fighting for his reputation.

That is where they're struggling and some of the bitterness, I think you now see in the primary, psychologically, I think was created by the festering idea that they hear all the time.

It almost doesn't matter which one is gonna win because the governor is headed for reelection.

- All right.

Well, state courts in North Florida are blocking a 16 year old from having an abortion.

- [Reporter] A state appellate court this week upheld a lower court decision that a parentless 16 year old girl in the Florida Panhandle was not sufficiently mature to end her pregnancy.

The girl had sought a waiver from the state law requiring that minors first get parental consent for an abortion.

The teen only known as Jane Doe had told the lower court that she wasn't ready to have a baby, that she didn't have a job, and the father was unable to assist her.

She was pursuing a GED and living with a relative.

The teen also told the lower court that her appointed guardian was fine with her decision to have an abortion.

But the juvenile court judge in Pensacola found that the teen did not adequately articulate her request, forcing the teen to take additional time to appeal.

At the time of the lower court ruling, the teenager was already 10 weeks pregnant and a new Florida law prohibits abortions after 15 weeks.

- Shelly, what does it mean for the judge to say the 16 year old is too immature to have an abortion?

- No one knows.

Apparently the judge felt that she was mature enough to bear and potentially raise a child, which is outrageous.

This has to stop.

Floridians like most the majority of people around the country want and deserve the right to make their own reproductive health decisions themselves, with their physicians and with their family and with their spiritual advisors and without political interference.

I do have a lot of questions about this particular case though, because in this judicial bypass procedure, according to the report from the decision of the appeals court, she had a legal guardian who said she was fine with this teen's decision.

And if she had a legal guardian, generally they are empowered with the authority to make medical decisions for the wards of the state that the guardian is for.

So I don't even understand why this particular case was in court.

And maybe we would know more about that, if the teen had been given a lawyer.

She had not been given a lawyer for, again, reasons we don't understand.

Here in Hillsborough county, for example, if a teen goes to the court and seeks permission to receive abortion services, she's given a bypass lawyer and they're trained to take up these issues with the court.

So part of the problem here, is that the courts are not really equipped to be making these decisions.

And particularly in this Escambia county case, where there was no lawyer to flesh out these issues for her.

Also, what did the judge mean?

The lower court judge mean when she said she could come back to the court again, and reraise this issue, because she was 10 weeks pregnant when she went before the court, which means that by the time the appeal was done, it's possible that she would've exceeded the 15 week abortion ban.

And then if she even was able to receive an abortion, it would have to be a surgical abortion, which is so much more dangerous than a chemical abortion, which she could have received when she was 10 weeks pregnant.

- Mitch.

- Yeah, the clock is ticking on this, because I believe now she's 11 weeks pregnant right now.

And as you mentioned, Shelly, there's the 15 week law now in place.

So this could be a situation where she has to go out of state to get an abortion, because I think that we're gonna continue to follow the story, and it's a real one.

We all heard the story about the young girl in Ohio.

And I think this is our own example of it here in Florida, and it's happening in real time.

- And Adam, I've heard conservatives say, what should happen is that this girl, even though she's 16, she ought to carry the baby to birth rather, and then give the baby up for adoption.

- Well, you're going right into the great divide on abortion, right?

And hold your views on that, and everyone has very decided opinions about pro-life versus pro-choice.

This is a difficult case.

You really feel for everyone involved, including the judge up in the Panhandle, who showed according to the penal code, great compassion and understanding and trying to deliver a verdict that was fair and just, that is built on law.

That parental consent and or notification is in play in 36 states in the country.

So if anything, Rob, I think if anything comes out of this, it may be for us and other states to kind of review those laws to make sure they still hold master in today's world versus when they were first passed, but that's the majority of America, that passed those laws, and that's why this case is frankly, no surprise.

- And what do you do if there are no parents around?

That's a big question.

Well, there are lots of important races on the ballot this Tuesday, some involve candidates for school board.

There are some other statewide races to be decided.

There are important congressional primaries, county commission races, and local referenda.

So I've asked our panel members to discuss a race or issue that perhaps is not drawn enough attention.

It's difficult because our signal here at WEDU, which reaches 16 counties.

But Trimmel, let's start with you, tell us about a race or an issue that's going on, that's important that we haven't talked about.

- Well, there are so many.

But one thing that I will throw out there that I always like, you know, it always shines off a light in my head is seeing law enforcement being used in the backdrop of political rhetoric, whether it's by the governor or others at press conferences.

You're seeing decorated law enforcement officers being flanked and supported by highly charged speech.

And it always brings a concern for those diverse community that they're in charge of protecting.

How do other segments of the population feel about seeing those who are supposed to protect all being used and being behind very charged speech?

So that's something that's always there.

And I hope to see that these law enforcement agencies take a step back and really assess how things look on the front end from individuals when they stand behind these press conferences- - It's happening more and more.

Adam, tell us about a race or an issue, especially on the ballot on Tuesday.

- Congressional district 15, where in the primary, Republican primary, Laurel Lee is facing off against four combatants, primarily two, Kelli Stargel, former legislator and current legislator and Jackie Toledo.

All very qualified, but this is where I think resume counts.

Laurel Lee is a former prosecutor, former judge, secretary of state.

She has DeSantis supremity, also having served as secretary of state under the governor.

To me, she reminds me a little bit, I'm not trying to project her future, of Nikki Haley.

Nikki Haley from South Carolina, the former governor, who was the ambassador of the United Nations under Donald Trump, who has a very clearly charted her own path, but was somewhat the blessing of the Trump supporters out there.

I think that Laurel Lee is that kind of potentially elected leader here, who is gonna have the support of governor DeSantis, at the same time she very much, as she always has, is gonna chart her own way, her own path on behalf of the people she represents.

- All right, Mitch, your other race.

- Yeah.

Education is on the ballot, like it never has been before this August.

We know governor DeSantis has endorsed over two dozen candidates and financially supporting some of them.

In turn, the Florida Democratic party is now endorsed some of their candidates.

And here in Hillsborough county, there's gonna be two races where DeSantis has one candidate and the FDP has another.

And bigger than that, two big property tax referendums in Pasco county, in Hillsborough county for the schools that would provide more money for salaries for teachers and other events.

- All right.

And Shelly.

- Well, I wanna bounce off what Trimmel said.

Yesterday governor DeSantis had a press conference in Broward county decrying voter fraud, giving an opportunity to Pegan Tanachi to tout his election police force.

And he was flanked by a flanks of law enforcement officers like Trimmel alluded to.

Make no mistake, this was a voter suppression event.

This was intended to send a message to diverse and minority communities, to be scared about casting your vote.

Because those people who tried to vote, many of them, and even Jeff Brandis, former state senator, Jeff Brandis, tweeted about this earlier today, many of them had tried to find out if they were eligible to vote.

They were told they were eligible to vote.

Some of them tried to find out if they had completely paid their fines and fees, which the state makes impossible to research.

And so I think it's important to note that this was a voter suppression event.

Also, it was in the five counties that are Democratically controlled counties, with Democratic voter majorities, and at least in so far as Hillsborough is concerned, a Democratic supervisor of elections, who I hope we wrap in bubble wrap right now, because I believe the governor was sending a message that he can come for you too.

- All right.

Well, thank you all for a great conversation.

Thanks for being part of the program.

And thank you for joining us.

Send us your comments at ftwwedu.org.

You can view this and pass shows online at wedu.org.

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And "Florida this Week" is now available as a podcast.

Next election is this Tuesday, August 23rd.

Don't forget to vote.

And from all of us here at WEDU have a great weekend.

(dramatic music) - [Speaker] "Florida this Week", is a production of WEDU, who is solely responsible for its content.