THIS PROGRAM IS MADE BY MPT TO ENRICH THE DIVERSE COMMUNITIES THROUGHOUT OUR STATE AND IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE GENEROUS SUPPORT OF OUR MEMBERS.

THANK YOU.

[♪♪] CONNECTING MARYLANDERS TO THEIR GOVERNMENT, THIS IS "STATE CIRCLE".

>> Jeff: WELCOME TO "STATE CIRCLE".

IT WAS A RAPID FIRE SPECIALTY SETTLE OF SESSION OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY THIS WEEK TO APPROVE A BALLOT QUESTION FOR THE ELECTION.

IT WOULD MAKE IT EASIER TO DRAW A CONGRESSIONAL MAP UNFAVORABLE TO THE STATE'S ONLY REPUBLICAN RENT.

NANCY YAMADA HAS THE STORY.

>> WE ARE NOT PROPOSING A MAP.

WE ARE SIMPLY TRYING TO RESTORE THE INTERPRETATION OF THE CONSTITUTION TO WHERE IT HAS BEEN FOR DECADES AND DECADES.

NO MAP WE ARE ASKING THE VOTERS TO APPROVE THIS.

>> DELL DAVID MOON SPONSORED EYE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT DURING THE SPECIAL LEGISLATIVE SESSION URGING COLLEAGUE CANS TO RETURN REDISTRICTING STANDARDS TO WHAT WAS IN PLACE PRIOR TO 2022.

>> WE ARE NOT MAKING A DECISION AS TO WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS WE WANT TO BE READY TO HAVE OPTIONS TO MONITOR WHAT IS GOING ON AND TO BE ABLE TO RESPOND ACCORDINGLY.

>> WITH DEMOCRAT SUPER MAJORITIES THE ASSEMBLY PASSEDDED BILL IF APPROVED BY VOTERS WOULD CHANGE THE CRITERIA FOR REDISTRICTING FOR LEGISLATIVE DISTRICTS VERSUS FEDERAL DISTRICTS BEFORE THE VOTE.

>> HOW BROKE ARE WE?

WE ARE WASTING TAXPAYERS' MONEY TO BE HERE.

CAN WE BE HONEST ABOUT WHAT WE ARE DOING?

I WANT TO WIN.

>> FRUSTRATED REPUBLICANS PUSHED BACK ON DEMOCRATS WHO ARE MOTIVATED BY AN END GOAL.

[AUDIO INTERRUPTION].

>> WHAT WAS YOUR EXCUSE BACK THEN?

20 PLUS YEARS AGO IT WAS FOUR AND FOUR FOUR REPUBLICANS AND FOUR DEMOCRATS AND EVERY 10 YEARS YOU ARE ABLE TO SURGICALLY REMOVE ONE OF US.

>> WE SHOULD HAVE CAME HERE TO HELP PEOPLE MARYLAND IS NOT GOING TOO WELL.

I LIVE HERE, TOO.

>> DEMOCRATS CONTEND... >> IT IS NOT MY INTENT TO TAKE AWAY YOUR VOICE AND IT'S NOT YOUR INTENT TO TAKE AWAY OURS.

>> SENATE PRESIDENT BILL FERGUSON WHO REFUSED TO ADVANCE A CONGRESSIONAL REDISTRICTING BILL HE SAID HIS STANCE SHOULD FIT AFTER THE SUPREME COURT DECISION THAT GUTTED THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT.

>> I'M OPENINGS THINGS SHIFT IN NOVEMBER.

AT THE END OF THE DAY MARYLANDERS DESERVE OPTIONS HOW THEY EXIST WITHIN THE CHAOS DONALD TRUMP CREATED SMED.

>> THE HOPE IS THE POLICIES THAT ARE DISTASS ROUSE WILL WEIGH OUT IN THE NEXT ELECTION.

JUST IN CASE, WE HAVE TO PUT OURSELVES ON THE LEVEL PLAYING FIELD.

WE JUST WANT TO BE ABLE TO DETERMINE MUCH LIKE ALL THE STATES ARE DOING, HOW WE DRAW OUR MAPS.

>> DESPITE THE GOVERNOR SIGNING THE BILL, REPUBLICANS ARE TURNING TO THE COURTS TO STOP THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT FROM BEING ON THE BALLOT IN NOVEMBER.

I'M NANCY YAMADA FOR "STATE CIRCLE" [♪♪] >> Jeff: JOINING US NOW ARE DELEGATE KRIS FAIR THE HOUSE FLOOR LEADER DURING THE SPECIAL SESSION AND DELEGATE JESSE PIPPY THE MINORITY WHIP A REPUBLICAN MINORITY WHIP IN THE HOUSE OF DELEGATES.

GENTLEMEN THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

I WILL START BY ASKING WHAT WAS THE YOUR SINGLE BEST ARGUMENT THAT YOU FEEL THE OTHER SIDE DIDN'T LISTEN TO AT ALL?

START WITH DELEGATE FAIR?

>> YEAH AT THE END OF THE DAY, ONE OF THE MAJOR ARGUMENTS THAT CAME OUT OF OUR DEBATE AROUND THE IDEA THAT WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION IN THE STATE OF MARYLAND, NOT BECAUSE MARYLAND WANTS TO BE IN THIS CONVERSATION.

YOU HEARD COUNTLESS MEMBERS ON THE FLOOR SAY WE DON'T WANT TO BE HERE AND TALK ABOUT REDISTRICTING.

BUT WE WERE FORCED INTO THIS DISCUSSION BECAUSE A FEDERAL ADMINISTRATION IN AN UNPRESS DEPARTMENTED ACTION WENT INTO TEXAS AND TOLD TEXAS FIND ME MORE CONGRESSIONAL VOTES AND PROCEEDED TO GO TO STATE AFTER STATE SEEKING THE SAME.

WE DON'T GET TO ACT LIKE THAT ISN'T ACTUALLY HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.

AND MARYLAND CAN'T CONTROL WHAT TEXAS DOES AND KPTD'S CONTROL WHAT FLORIDA DOES.

MARYLAND CAN CONTROL WHAT MARYLAND DOES.

SO WE DIDN'T TAKE ACTION ON MAPS WE LOOKED AT THE REALITY ON THE GROUND AND WE NEED TO MAKE SURE OUR HOUSE IS IN ORDER TO RESPOND TO THIS RECOLLECT BUILDING BEHAVIOR FROM WASHINGTON.

>> Jeff: DELEGATE PIPPY WHAT WAS YOUR BEST ARGUMENT LOST ON THE OTHER SIDE.

>> LOOK, TWO WRONGS DO NOT MAKE A RIGHT.

WHAT WAS OCCURRING IN TEXAS WAS WRONG WE SAID IT ON THE RECORD AND PRESS CONFERENCES AND ON THE FLOOR AND IT WAS DISAPPOINTING THAT OUR COLLEAGUES HERE IN MARYLAND DECIDED TO DO THE SAME THING.

AND WE WERE HOPING THAT MARYLAND WOULD BE A LEADER ON THE ISSUE.

WE ARE HOPING MARYLAND WOULD NOT GO DOWN THE ROUTE OF GERRYMANDERING.

LIKE TEXAS IS DOING WHICH WE THINK IS ALSO WRONG.

SO IT WAS JUST DISAPPOINTING.

WE WERE HOPING THAT AGAIN WE COULD SHOW THE CITIZENS WE LEAD FROM THE FRONT AND WE WOULD ALWAYS DO THE RIGHT THING AND UNFORTUNATELY THAT IS NOT WHAT HAPPENED.

>> Jeff: THIS DEBATE IS SORT OF THE POSTER CHILD FOR HYPOCRISY IN POLITICS.

I'M NOT POINTING AT ANYBODY IN PARTICULAR HERE JUST THE IDEA THAT REPUBLICANS IN TEXAS ARE ON ONE SIDE, REPUBLICANS IN MARYLAND ARE ON THE OTHER SIDE.

VICE VERSA WITH THE DEMOCRATS.

TELL ME THIS THING WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN REVERSED IF MARYLAND WAS A RED STATE?

>> WELL, I WILL SAY TO BE HONEST HERE I DON'T KNOW HOW IT WOULD GO IF MARYLAND WAS A RED STATE THE INTERESTING THING YOU SAW ON THE FLOOR WAS THE MAJORITY PARTY GETTING UP OVER AND OVER AGAIN SAYING WE SUPPORT A NATIONAL BAN ON PARTISAN REDISTRICTING.

YOU HAVE A MAJORITY, A SUPER MAJORITY PARTY IN A STATE SAYING PLEASE, FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, FIX THIS PROBLEM.

PLEASE, CONGRESS, DO SOMETHING ACTUALLY ACT.

AND YOU DON'T HEAR THAT SO MUCH FROM OUR COLLEAGUES IN TEXAS I'LL SAY IN THE MAJORITY IN TEXAS WHERE THEY ARE SAYING HEY LET'S NOT DO PARTISAN REDISTRICTING ANYMORE LET'S GO WITH INDEPENDENT COMMISSIONS AND FIGURE OUT A WAY TO DECIDE BETWEEN ALL OF THE STATES BY LEAPING ON CONGRESS TO DO ITS JOB AND END THIS PARTISAN FIGHTING.

THAT IS UNIQUE IN MARYLAND AS WE WERE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION AND THAT WAS HAPPENING TIME AND TIME AGAIN, ENCOURAGING A NATIONAL SOLUTION TO THIS REALLY CRITICAL PROBLEM.

>> Jeff: DELEGATE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE FLEXIBILITY WITHIN PARTIES ON THIS MATTER?

>> NOW, LOOK, I THINK MY COLLEAGUES ACROSS THE AISLE IN MARYLAND ARE OBSESSED WITH WHAT IS GOING ON NATIONALLY INSTEAD OF FOCUSING ON MARYLAND.

THE ONLY THINGS I THOUGHT WAS DISINGENUOUS, DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN GERRYMANDERING REPUBLICANS OUT OF MARYLAND FOR DECADES.

BEFORE TEXAS WAS DOING IT.

NOW THEY ARE SAYING WE HAVE TO DO THIS IN RESPONSE TO TEXAS WHEN IN FACT, THEY HAVE BEEN DOING IT LONGER THAN TEXAS.

AND I FIND THAT DISAPPOINTING.

MARYLAND IS CERTAINLY ITS OWN UNIQUE STATE AND I WAS HOPING MARYLAND WOULD BE A LEADER INSTEAD OF BEING A FOLLOWER WHAT TEXAS IS DOING.

AND THAT IS WHAT OCCURRED.

>> Jeff: HERE IS A QUESTION ON THE IDEA THAT DELEGATE FAIR BROUGHT UP OF INDEPENDENT COMMISSION.

I WILL START WITH DELEGATE PIPPY ON THIS.

IS THERE SUCH THING AS AN INDEPENDENT COMMISSION?

SOMEBODY'S GOT TO APPOINT IT AND THAT SOMEBODY IS PROBABLY AN ELECTED OFFICIAL, A GOVERNOR, THE HOUSE LEADERSHIP, SENATE LEADERSHIP IS THIS LIKE A UNICORN OR DOES AN INDEPENDENT COMMISSION EXIST?

>> I WILL SAY THIS ONE DELEGATE FAIR HAD A BILL TO GIVE INTERESTS MORE OF A VOICE.

AND I SUPPORTED IT ONE OF A FEW REPUBLICANS THAT SUPPORTED IT.

THE OTHER THING IS GOVERNOR HOGAN PREVIOUSLY INTRODUCED A NONPARTISAN GROUP TO HAVE FAIR DISTRICTS.

WE HAD AN ENTIRE COMMISSION SETUP THAT WAS ORGANIZED AND LED BY BOTH DEMOCRATS, REPUBLICANS AND INDEPENDENTS TO DRAW FAIR MAPS AND THE DEMOCRAT SUPER MAJORITY THREW THAT OUT.

THERE HAS BEEN REPEATED ATTEMPTS TO HAVE FAIR MAPS DRAWN.

REPEATEDLY.

AS A MATTER OF FACT MY REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES VOTED TO HAVE SINGET DISTRICTS IN THE STATE.

WE WERE WILLING TO SACRIFICE SOME OF OUR SEATS TO MAKE THE DISTRICTS MORE FAIR.

MARYLAND IS UNIQUE IT HAS THREE AND TWO MEMBER DISTRICTS AND UNCONSTITUTIONAL SOMEONE HAS NOT CHALLENGED THAT.

BUT NONETHELESS, OUR PARTY THROUGH GOVERNOR HOGAN HAS INTRODUCED A FAIR DRAWING MAP PROCESS.

BUT IT WAS UNILATERALLY REJECTED BY THE DEMOCRAT PARTY.

AND SO THAT'S WHAT WE KEEP RUNNING INTO IS THAT, YOU KNOW, LOOK, I'VE SAID IT A MILLION TIMES WHAT'S HAPPENED IN TEXAS IS WRONG.

WHAT HAPPENED IN A COUPLE RED STATES WAS WRONG BUT THE DEMOCRATSTH MARYLAND ARE DOING IT MUCH WORSE AND HAVE BEEN DOING IT MUCH WORSE FOR DECADES.

>> Jeff: I WILL POINT OUT THAT ANY DISTRICT THAT KRIS FAIR WINS IS AUTOMATICALLY A FAIR DISTRICT IS IT NOT?

>> IF I COULD ONLY CHAIR THE COMMISSION IT COULD BE THE FAIR ELECTION REDISTRICTING COMMISSION.

TO YOUR POINT, IF ELECTED OFFICIALS ARE THEING THIS INDEPENDENT REDISTRICTING COMMISSION AS WE SAW IN THE 2021 DISCUSSION ABOUT THE LEGISLATIVE MAPS AS THE MINORITY WHIP POINTED OUT IT WAS APPOINTED BY THE GOVERNOR.

A REPUBLICAN SITTING GOVERNOR APPOINTED HIS CHOSEN MEMBERS TO REPRESENT HIM AND HIS INTERESTS AT THE THESE COMMISSION HEARINGS.

AND THEN THE LEGISLATURE FOLLOWING THE CONSTITUTION, APPOINTED ITS LEGISLATIVE REDISTRICTING COMMISSION WHICH IS ALSO CONSIDERED TO BE A BIPARTISAN REDISTRICTING COMPETITION THAT LOOKS AT THE REDISTRICTING MAPS AS WELL.

AND SO WE HAD TWO COMPETING INDEPENDENTLY APPOINTED BY ELECTED OFFICIALS MAPS.

AND THAT IS WHERE CONGRESS NEEDS TO STEP IN AND RESOLVE THIS QUESTION OF HOW DO WE COME UP WITH THE ANSWER OR HOW WE APPOINT THESE POSITIONS IN A FAIR AND NOT PARTISAN WAY THAT BOTH PARTIES FEEL THEY'VE LOST SOMETHING AND GAINED SOMETHING.

THE UP WITH THING WE DEEPLY AGREE WITH WE NEED TO DO BETTER AT OUR INDEPENDENTS AND MEETING PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE WHERE THEY ARE AT.

WE HAVE TO DO THIS IN A WAY THAT DOES NOT IN ANYWAY, GIVE RISE TO I AM PROPRIETY OR CONCERNS.

IT'S ALWAYS SOMETHING I'M EXCITED TO LOOK AT.

I CANNOT SPEAK ON BEHALF OF THE MA'AMTY BUT I'M ALWAYS HAPPY TO LOOK AT.

>> Jeff: AT OUR TAPING TIME WE KNOW ONE COURT CHALLENGE FILED THERE WERE TWO ISSUES WITHIN THAT CHALLENGE, ONE ALLEGING THAT THE BALLOT LANGUAGE IS MISLEADING.

AND THE OTHER WAS LOOKING AT THE IDEA THAT THE LEGISLATURE MAY HAVE MISSED A DEADLINE THAT ITSELF CREATED.

DELEGATE FAIR EITHER OF THOSE CARRY WATER?

>> SO, I WILL JUST SAY THAT IT'S INAPPROPRIATE PENDING LITIGATION IS ALWAYS IT WOULD BE INAPPROPRIATE FOR ME TO WEIGH-IN ON THE LEGISLATION.

>> Jeff: LET ME REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

IS THE BALLOT LANGUAGE ACCURATE?

>> I BELIEVE THE BALLOT LANGUAGE IS ACCURATE.

WHEN WE BROUGHT THE LEGISLATION FORWARD, WE ABSOLUTELY WORKED VERY HARD TO MAKE SURE A IT WAS PUBLIC AND OPEN PROCESS AND B. IT FOLLOWED THE NECESSARY PROCEDURES THAT WE NEED TO FOLLOW IN THE MARYLAND LEGISLATURE.

>> Jeff: DELEGATE PIPPY YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE COURT CHALLENGE ANY CHANCE?

>> WHAT IS INTERESTING IS THE PROCEDURAL ASPECT OF THAT CHALLENGE IS INTERESTING BECAUSE THEY ADDED A LATE AMENDMENT IN THE COMMITTEE THAT BASICALLY REMOVED THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S ROLE IN CHOOSING THE LANGUAGE.

AND SO I THINK IT BRINGS UP A QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER THE DATES COMPLY BECAUSE USUALLY THERE IS A 15-DAY COMMENT PERIOD THAT HAS BEEN REMOVED.

THERE WAS ALSO LEGISLATION PASSED LAST SESSION DEALING WITH THIS ISSUE.

LOOK, WE SAW IN VIRGINIA WHERE DEMOCRATS THE SECOND THEY GOT IN OFFICE THEY MOVED TO REMOVE HALF OF ALL THE REPUBLICANS THAT WERE CONGRESSMAN.

I THINK IN VIRGINIA IT WAS A 5-5 MAP.

THE DEMOCRATS GOT INTO OFFICE AND IMMEDIATELY DREW A 9-1 MAP TRIED TO RUSH IT THROUGH AND THE COURTS WERE LIKE YOU DID NOT FOLLOW THE PROCEDURE.

HERE MY COLLEAGUES ACROSS THE AISLE I SHOULD SAY FORTUNATELY FOR MY COLLEAGUES ACROSS THE AISLE THEY HAVE JUMPED THE GUN AND THAT WILL COST THEM IN COURT.

AND THERE COULD BE A SUCCESSFUL LEGAL CHALLENGE TO THIS MAP AND THE PROCEDURE.

BECAUSE ULTIMATELY THE CITIZENS SHOULD HAVE A RIGHT TO A FAIR PROCESS.

AND ANYTIME YOU STRIP AWAY THEIR VOICE AND STRIP AWAY THE COMMENT PERIOD AND RUSH THROUGH AMENDMENTS VIOLATING DATES THAT COULD RESULT IN A CHALLENGE.

>> Jeff: GENTLEMEN, DELEGATES PIPPY AND FAIR WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Jeff: FORMER U.S.

ATTORNEY EREK BARRON IS THE NEW HEAD OF THE MARYLAND ACCESS TO JUSTICE COMMISSION.

WE SPOKE WITH Mr.

BARON AND THE OUTGOING CHAIR WARD COE.

>> GENTLEMEN THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

Mr.

BARON, TELL US PLEASE ABOUT THIS COMMISSION.

>> WELL, THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

MARYLAND ACCESS TO JUSTICE COMMISSION, WAS ORIGINALLY ESTABLISHED BY THE MARYLAND JUDICIARY AND IT IS A NOW AN INDEPENDENT BODY WHOSE MISSION IS TO INCREASE THE FAIRNESS, EQUITY AND ACCESS TO COUNSEL PARTICULARLY IN CIVIL IN OUR CIVIL LEGAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

>> Jeff: Mr.

COE TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR TENURE AND PROGRESS THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN MADE.

>> I WAS CHAIR FOR ABOUT 11 YEARS AND I'M HAPPY TO HAND IT OVER TO EREK BARRON.

WE STARTED AS AN INDEPENDENT COMMISSION WITH VERY LITTLE FUNDING AND THE FIRST AND BEST THICK WE DID IS HIRE RENA TO BE OUR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR A REAL CIVIL JUSTICE VISIONARY AND SHE GOT US GOING.

AND WE HAVE FOUGHT FOR JUST WHAT ERIC SAID, EQUITY AND ACCESSIBILITY IN THE CIVIL JUSTICE SYSTEM WHERE YOU DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO COUNSEL IN CRITICAL HUMAN NEEDS CASES CAN BE JUST AS IMPORTANT IN THE OUTCOMES AND JUST AS DEVASTATING AS CRIMINAL CASES.

>> Jeff: IN CRIMINAL CASES WE THINK ABOUT PUBLIC DEFENDERS WHICH HAS BEEN RIGHT FOR DECADES NOW.

WHAT IS THE EQUIVALENT IN A CIVIL MATTER?

>> IT'S LEGAL AID BUREAU AND THE PUBLIC JUSTICE CENTER WE HAVE NEARLY 50 OF THEM IN MARYLAND.

AND THEY ARE GREAT.

THEY ARE STAFFED BY GREAT LAWYERS WHO REPRESENT THE POOR AND THE MINORITIES VERY VIGOROUSLY.

BUT EVEN IN THAT EFFORT ABOUT 20% OF LEGAL NEEDS OF THE POOR CAN BE HANDLED BY CIVIL LEGAL AID LAWYERS.

AND IF YOU ARE A POOR PERSON OR A MINORITY, FACING A CIVIL LEGAL PROBLEM SUCH AS EVICTION, OR DEBT COLLECTION YOUR OPPONENT IS GOING TO BE REPRESENTED BY A LAWYER AND A COMPLEX SYSTEM OF LAWS.

IF YOU HAVE TO FEND FOR YOURSELF, IT IS NOT A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD AND IT'S NOT WHAT WE PROMISED WHICH IS JUSTICE FOR ALL.

>> Jeff: Mr.

PAR RON WHAT WOULD BE OTHER EXAMPLES OF MATTERS WHERE THE SCALES OF JUSTICE MIGHT BE TILTED A BIT IF YOU DON'T HAVE COUNSEL?

>> SURE.

AND YOU TOUCHED ON IT EARLIER.

IF YOU ARE CHARGED WITH A CRIME YOU GET A LAWYER.

BUT IN OUR SYSTEM, IF YOU ARE LOSING YOUR HOME, IF YOU MIGHT LOSE YOUR CHILDREN, OR IF YOU MIGHT LOSE YOUR PAYCHECK, IN CIVIL COURT YOU ARE ALMOST ALWAYS ON YOUR OWN.

UNLESS YOU CAN AFFORD A LAWYER OR YOU FALL FAR ENOUGH BELOW THE POVERTY LINE AND YOU HAVE ACCESS TO A LEGAL AID ATTORNEY.

SO MOST OF US ARE ON OUR OWN.

AND YOU KNOW, NEARLY HALF OF MARYLANDERS CAN'T AFFORD AN ATTORNEY AT MARKET RATES.

SO WHEN THINGS ARE REALLY IMPORTANT TO A CONSTITUTIONAL LEVEL, HOUSING, CHILDREN, YOUR PAYCHECK FOR EXAMPLE, YOU ARE THAT GUARANTEED AN ATTORNEY.

AND WITHOUT AN ATTORNEY YOUR CHANCES OF SUCCESS IN THE COURT OF LAW ARE EXTREMELY LOW.

>> Jeff: DO OTHER STATES OTHER JURISDICTIONS HANDLE THIS DIFFERENTLY?

>> I THINK MOST HANDLE IT WITH A SIMILAR SYSTEM TO OURS.

OURS IS HAPPENS TO BE BETTER THAN BY FAR THE MAJORITY OF STATES.

PAUSE WE HAVE JUST OUTSTANDING LEGAL SERVICE PROVIDERS.

BUT IT'S STILL CAN ONLY MAKE A DENT IN THE JUSTICE THAT IS METED DOWN IN THE CIVIL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

ONE EXTRA POINT WHAT ERIC MENTIONED IS DEPORTATION DEFENSE.

DEPORTATION DEFENSE IS A CIVIL PROCEEDING AND EXTREMELY COMPLEX AREA THIS IS VERY TOPICAL WHERE YOU DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO HAVE THE GOVERNMENT PROVIDE YOU A LAWYER.

AND WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT THE EFFECTS OF DEPORTATION CAN BE, SUCH AS TO YOUR COUNTRY OF ORIGIN THAT YOU FLED FOR YOUR LIFE FROM IT'S THE KIND OF THING WE ARE NOT PROVIDING FOR JUSTICE IF WE LEAVE PEOPLE TO REPRESENT THEMSELVES.

>> Jeff: YOU KNOW, A SENATE MIGHT SUGGEST THAT THE BAR ASSOCIATION SUGGESTING WE NEED MORE MIGHT NEED MORE FUNDING FOR LAWYERS, MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT SELF-SERVING.

HAVE YOU HEARD THAT COMPLAINT?

HOW WOULD YOU RESPOND?

>> WANT TO TAKE THAT ONE, ERIC?

>> I HAVE HEARD THAT RESPONSE.

AND WE ALSO HAVE EFFORTS TO GET PRIVATE LAWYERS TO WORK AND PROVIDE PRO BONO SERVICES TO PEOPLE WHO NEED THEM.

THEY HAVE BEEN SOMEWHAT SUCCESSFUL.

BUT STILL THEY ARE NOT JUST NOT ENOUGH.

AND IF ITSELF SERVING TO SAY WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE MORE FUNDING FOR LEGAL AID SO THEY CAN REPRESENT MORE PEOPLE, I GUESS, PRIVATE LAWYERS COULD ACTUALLY INSTEAD PROVIDE FREE SERVICES.

>> Jeff: WELL, THAT IS WHERE I WAS GOING TO GO NEXT, THE IDEA OF PRO BONO OR FREE VOLUNTEER WORK DONE BY ATTORNEYS IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR I'M SURE THERE IS A TON OF THAT BEING DONE.

IS IT TRACKED?

IS IT ENCOURAGED?

>> IT IS ENCOURAGED.

IT'S ENCOURAGED BY THE JUDICIARY, IT'S ENCOURAGED BY THE STATE BAR ASSOCIATION AND LOCAL BAR ASSOCIATIONS.

THERE IS A MARYLAND PRO BONO RESOURCE CENTER AND LOTS OF MECHANISMS WHERE LAWYERS CAN AND DO PARTICIPATE AND VOLUNTEER THEIR SERVICES PRO BONO.

I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE WE STACK UP BUT I'M CONFIDENT IN SAYING THAT MARYLAND LAWYERS REALLY STEP UP TO THE PLATE.

IT'S JUST SIMPLY NOT ENOUGH FOR THE NEED THAT IS OUT THERE.

>> Jeff: WHAT ELSE MIGHT BE DONE TO MAKE OUR CIVIL JUSTICE SYSTEM MORE EQUITABLE, MORE FAIR, MORE EFFICIENT?

>> SO ONE THING IS PROJECT THAT THE ACCESS TO JUSTICE COMMISSION IS WORKING ON NOW, AND I THINK WE'LL CONTINUE TO WORK ON VIGOROUSLY AND ERIC'S DUTY WHICH IS INNOVATIONS IN LEGAL SERVICES.

THERE IS AN INNOVATIONS TO LEGAL SERVICES TASK FORCE WHICH IS LOOKING AT HAVING LAWYERS OR LEGAL PROFESSIONALS SOMEWHAT LIKE PHYSICIANS ASSISTANTS LIKE DOCTORS IN THE MEDICAL PROFESSION THEY ARE NOT LICENSED LAWYERS BUT TRAINED IN A WAY TO HANDLE SPECIAL, LEGAL ISSUES.

LIKE ADMINISTRATIVE LAW PROCEEDINGS WHERE GOVERNMENT BENEFITS ARE BEING TAKEN AWAY THAT SORT OF THING.

AND THAT COULD RELATIVELY LOWER COST EXPAND LEGAL SERVICES CONSIDERABLY.

>> Jeff: WELL, AS YOU SAY A TREND IN THE MEDICAL WORLD HAPPEN TO HAVE OCCASION TO SEE A PHYSICIAN'S ASSISTANT I SAW THE ASSISTANT TO THE PHYSICIAN'S ASSISTANT CAME IN.

I WANTED TO ASK ABOUT SMALL CLAIMS COURT EVERYBODY'S SEEN THESE COURTROOM SHOWS ON TV STARTING WITH THE PEOPLE'S COURT.

IS IT ANYMORE ACCESSIBLE AT THAT LEVEL TO SOMEBODY WITHOUT REPRESENTATION?

>> I THINK IT MAYBE ACCESSIBLE BECAUSE IT'S MORE ACCESSIBLE BECAUSE IT'S SIMPLER.

BUT IF YOU JUST STEP UP ONE RUNG TO DISTRICT COURT IN MARYLAND WHICH IS THE LOWEST COURT WE HAVE, REALLY SERIOUS CASES ARE HANDLED THERE.

AS A MATTER OF FACT ALMOST EXCLUSIVE JURISDICTION FOR EVICTION CASES AND THERE ARE 30 PAGES IN THE MARYLAND CODE THAT DESCRIBE LANDLORD-TENANT RELATIONS.

THERE IS A REASON IT TAKES THREE YEARS TO GET THROUGH LAW SCHOOL YOU HAVE TO MASTER THAT TO REPRESENT PEOPLE.

VERY DIFFICULT TO DO ON YOUR OWN.

>> Jeff: TALK ABOUT THE RACIAL DISPARITIES THAT COME INTO PLAY HERE AND ALSO PEOPLE MAYBE WITH LIMITED ENGLISH SKILLS?

>> SURE.

UNFORTUNATELY AS WITH A NUMBER OF AREAS OF SOCIETY, THERE ARE GAPS AND SIGNIFICANT RACIAL DISPARITIES AND ACCESS TO LEGAL SERVICES.

THE SAME WITH I WOULD SAY IN HEALTHCARE AND OTHER SECTORS.

SO WE SEE THAT DEFINITELY IN THE AREA AND THE ARENA WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

AND SO YOU KNOW, OUR GOAL IS TO MAKE IT ACCESSIBLE, EQUITABLE AND FAIR TO ALL SUCH THAT THERE ARE NO AREAS IF YOU NEED IT, PARTICULARLY IN A SERIOUS SITUATION OF HOUSING, OR FAMILY OR SOMETHING AFFECTING YOUR KITCHEN TABLE AND ECONOMICS, THAT YOU HAVE ACCESS TO LEGAL HELP, LEGAL ASSISTANCE SO YOU CAN HAVE A FAIR OPPORTUNITY FOR JUSTICE, CIVIL JUSTICE IN A COURT OF LAW.

AND THE THING IS THIS AFFECTS US ALL.

IF NOT DIRECTLY INDIRECTLY.

SO ONE OF THE THINGS I HOPE IN TAKING THE BATON FROM WARD IS TO REALLY BROADEN OUR STAKEHOLDERS WHO ARE INVOLVED IN THIS THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY, THE PHILANTHROPY COMMUNITY.

THOSE WHO ARE MOST AFFECTED, THE LEGAL PROFESSION HAS BEEN AND IS VERY MUCH INVOLVED IN THIS ISSUE.

BUT WE GOT TO BROADEN THE COALITION SO TO SPEAK.

>> Jeff: Mr.

BARON NOW IN PRIVATE PRACTICE, I IMAGINE?

>> YES.

IN PRIVATE PRACTICE.

ENJOYING THE PRACTICE OF LAW.

BUT, YOU KNOW, REMAIN FULLY COMMITTED TO THE COMMUNITY AND PUBLIC SERVICE AND THIS IS A HUGE OPPORTUNITY TO DO JUST THAT.

>> Jeff: EREK BARRON AND WARD COE GENTLEMEN WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Jeff: AND THAT IS "STATE CIRCLE" FOR THIS WEEK.

JOIN US EVERY WEEK AT THIS TIME FOR THE LATEST ON MARYLAND'S POLITICAL STAGE.

REMEMBER, YOU CAN SEE OUR RECENT PROGRAMS AT VIDEO.MPT.TV.

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WE'RE BACK MONDAY WITH "DIRECT CONNECTION" AND YOUR CHANCE TO ASK THE EXPERTS THAT IS MONDAY EVENING LIVE AT 7:00 P.M.

FOR ALL OF US AT MPT THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

WE'LL SEE YOU BACK HERE MONDAY.

[♪♪]