- [Announcer] This is a production of WEDU PBS, Tampa, St. Petersburg, Sarasota.

Florida This Week is made possible in part by support from the Tampa Bay Times.

- [Rob] Coming up next, the nation is on edge as the country prepares for the inauguration of president Joe Biden.

The house votes to impeach president Trump with Florida Republicans standing by their leader.

And the fallout continues from that assault on the US Capitol.

Our guests are Congresswoman Kathy Castor, Stanley Gray who worked on the white house security detail under two of Republican presidents and Democrat Sean Shaw on a special edition of Florida This Week.

(upbeat music) Welcome back, with the inauguration just days away, the US House of Representatives voted this week to impeach president Trump.

Ten Republicans joined with the Democratic majority to impeach him on a single charge, incitement to insurrection.

It came just one week after the assault on the US Capitol when a large mob forced their way inside the Seat of American democracy.

As new video emerged of the invasion, it became clearer than ever that the militant Trump supporters were bent on more than protest, chemical spray, battering rams, zip ties, military gear, and even a gallows complete with the noose were all used by the crowd.

One protester's truck was filled with rifles, pistols, stun guns, and Molotov cocktails.

There were threatening chance aimed at both the speaker of the house and the vice-president.

(Crowd chanting) At least five people died in the wake of the riot, and more were injured.

Some members of Congress want an investigation to see if the mob had inside help.

In response to the violence, the house quickly moved to impeach with Florida's delegation split along party lines.

- I rise today to urge the impeachment of Donald Trump because the attack on the Capitol and the Congress was the single most depraved betrayal of the US constitution ever committed by a president.

The traitorous incitement of an insurrection demands not just impeachment, but removal from office immediately.

- The left in America has incited far more political violence than the right.

For months, our cities burned, police stations burned, our businesses were shattered and they said nothing or they cheer-led for it and they fund raised for it and they allowed it to happen in the greatest country in the world.

Now, some have cited, some have cited the metaphor that the president lit the flame.

Well, they lit actual flames, actual fires.

- The historic vote to impeach president Trump for a second time must now be followed by a trial in the US Senate.

And the timing of when the trial will start is still unclear.

Now, just a few days before the inauguration at least 20,000 National Guard troops have been sent to Washington, DC to protect against further possible right-wing attacks during the transition of power.

Democrat Kathy Castor represents the 14th district of Florida in the US House.

She voted yes to impeaching the president on Wednesday as well as his previous impeachment in 2019.

And she joins us now.

Representative Castor, thank you for coming on Florida This Week.

Great to see you.

- Great to see you Rob.

- What do you think the true aim was for those who broke into the US Capitol last week was?

- It was clear.

It was to overthrow the free and fair election of Joe Biden, to interrupt the certification of the electoral college votes that have been sent across the country from each state in our presidential election.

It was a betrayal that I never thought I would witness as an American and as a member of Congress representing the Tampa Bay area like this depraved betrayal of the oath of office and of our constitution.

- Were you yourself in any danger on that Wednesday?

- Fortunately, I had decided that I was not going to be there at the opening of the electoral college.

We knew it was going to be a long day probably into the early morning hours of Thursday.

So I had decided I would wait and go over later to witness the certification of Joe Biden's election.

- There are some members of the Democratic delegation in Congress of Washington have raised the issue.

They think that some of the plotters, some of the people that were attempting to take over the Capitol were taken on tours the day prior, on January 5th.

Do you think that's true and what should happen to members of Congress who took these people on a so-called reconnaissance mission?

- If that is true, those members need to be expelled from Congress and held accountable to the fullest extent of the law.

What has happened since the COVID pandemic is that the Congress has been locked down.

There are no tours, there are no visitors.

If you have some visitor on business, you have to meet them at the door and escort them in.

So some of my colleagues have noted that the day before the violent attack on the Capitol, they saw some folks having tours that you would not expect.

They didn't realize what was happening at the time, but investigations are very sophisticated now.

There are cell phone data, there are cameras, and we will find out if there are traitors in our midst.

- Were panic buttons removed from some of the Congress members' offices?

- I read that but we haven't gotten the details on that.

And it hasn't been a focus of conversation among colleagues.

- There's a resolution, House resolution 25 by a Congressman Cori Bush of Missouri and 47 co-sponsors charging that the Republicans who voted to overturn the results of the presidential election violated the 14th amendment to the constitution.

Are you signed onto that?

Do you agree with it?

And what should happen to those members who voted to overturn the results?

- I'm not signed on to that resolution yet, but what really surprised me, Rob, was after the deadly attack on the Capitol where five people lost their lives, including a Capitol police officer that the GOP members, a vast majority of them continue to object to the election.

It was the 'big lie' that Donald Trump won the election and not Joe Biden that fueled this insurrection and deadly attack at a time when Donald Trump has taken the various threads of domestic terrorists, the Proud Boys, white supremacists, white nationalists.

He's knitted them together.

He incited them to come and violently attack the Capitol.

And what makes this particularly egregious in our democratic Republic is that he did it on the day that we're counting the votes of the free and fair election, the transfer power, what is supposed to be a peaceful transfer of power, and try to interrupt that certification to the point where he threatened his own vice president, Mike Pence.

And you heard many of the terrorists coming into the Capitol saying, "Hang Mike Pence, hang Mike Pence.

Where's Nancy Pelosi?"

They carried weapons and tear gas and ties.

So we may have, we may have missed even more violent and deadly insurrection.

Thank goodness.

- You voted to impeach the president this Wednesday.

Did the president commit sedition?

And to those people who back what the president called for, have they committed sedition as well?

And I'm thinking of members of Congress who were backing the president.

- Clearly, the president committed sedition.

This was an un-American attack on our peaceful transfer of power.

It violated his oath of office, it violated our constitution and he needs to be accountable for that.

The most direct way to hold him accountable is to impeach him and remove him from office.

I know time is short before Joe Biden takes the oath but he is a danger to this country.

I believe Donald Trump is deranged.

I mean, look, ever since election day this has been his sole focus, trying to overturn the free and fair election, bullying elections officials across the country has taken his eye off the fact that thousands of Americans are losing their lives every day to COVID-19.

We have a chaotic vaccine rollout, we had an incursion by the Russians into the cyber hardware of the government agencies.

And he hasn't said one thing about it.

So he needs to be held accountable to the full extent of law.

And I think impeachment or removal from office and eventual invocation of the 14th amendment, the third section that says you can never hold office again.

And I'm very interested in acting to ensure he doesn't get post-presidential perks like a pension and an office, things like that.

They're not appropriate for a traitor to the United States of America.

- But to those members of Congress who support the president, continue to support him and say he should not be removed.

Are they also helping in that sedition?

- There are gradations there.

Some I believe, will hold some true culpability as seditious traitors.

There are others where there is a speech and debate clause on the floor of the house.

But certainly they have responsibility for this violent insurrection.

They should be ashamed of promoting the 'big lie'.

Some of them are scared of the the domestic terrorist who are in their social media feeds who fuel the fire.

We also have a media landscape that also fuels this distrust of government and it fueled the 'big lie'.

I mean, look here in the Tampa Bay area, we used to have two strong independent newspapers where people receive their news in addition to evening news and programs like yours.

Now, we have one paper that prints only two days a week.

We have a Fox News channel who promoted the 'big lie' and online platforms that also bear responsibility for the violent content on their platforms.

- Well, I think that is the issue.

How do you stop the 'big lie'?

The New York Times Sunday magazine this past Sunday had a big piece by a Jason Stanley who warned that the 'big lie' is gonna persist, the lie that the election was stolen.

So, how do people who know the true results and could see that there was no vast 50 state conspiracy, or even four state conspiracy?

How do you fight back against that 'big lie'?

- First and foremost, it's up to all American citizens to stand up for what is right.

Being a citizen in America comes with a lot of important rights but it also comes with responsibilities.

And we each have a responsibility to push back against this lie that Donald Trump somehow won the election.

But we're also gonna have to take, we're gonna have to ensure that law enforcement and the justice department prosecutes the perpetrators to the full extent of the law.

I don't think there's any substitute for folks out there watching folks be arrested, prosecuted.

They understand they are sentenced to prison.

They receive that there is accountability, that there is accountability for Donald Trump and there's accountability for members of Congress and other elected officials who fueled the 'big lie'.

And then we're going to have to address these online platforms.

I'm one that believes that section 230 does need to be reformed substantially.

It is not right that the online platforms can, for example, post content on sex trafficking or illegal firearm sales, or opioid sales.

We're gonna have to reign in the illegal activity that we find online.

But again, it's up to every one of us to stand up for the truth.

- FBI director, Christopher Wray, said on Thursday that there's dangerous chatter online about the next few days, leading up to the inauguration.

How concerned are you that there may be additional violence between now and inauguration day?

- I'm very concerned, not just between now and inauguration day but from this point forward.

If you remember after nine 11, we all came together to fight foreign terrorism.

We now need to do the same when it comes to these domestic terrorist organizations and the justice department needs to be rebuilt.

The Home Department, Homeland Security does as well.

And we need to have hearings out in the open that explain to people what is happening.

And we're going to have to ensure that our law enforcement agencies are all working together to tackle this widespread problem.

- Well, Congresswoman Cathy Castor.

Thank you.

I'm so glad you're safe.

Thanks for coming on Florida This Week.

- Well, thanks Rob and.

Thanks to everyone out there who expressed concern for me, my professional staff on that unbelievable day will go down in history.

But I think America is strong and resilient and the union does survive and we move on.

(upbeat music) - Attorney Sean Shaw founded the nonprofit group, People Over Profits in 2019 to help fight against corporate influence and for the rights of everyday people.

He's a former state legislator from Tampa and made history in 2018 as the Florida Democratic Party's first African American nominee for attorney general.

Sean Shaw, welcome back to Florida This Week.

- Thanks Rob.

Thanks for having me.

- I looked up the numbers, right after George Floyd was killed in the summer, in early June, June 1st.

A day after the Floyd killing there was a big demonstration in Washington, DC, and 289 people were arrested at that demonstration.

On January 6th after the attempted invasion of the US Capitol, 52 people were arrested.

What are your thoughts on the different handling of let's say the BLM protests and the riot at the Capitol?

- I usually don't like to speak for all black people but I can certainly tell you that almost every black person in America was thinking the same thing when they saw the Capitol insurrection, Capitol riots.

It was a totally different response to protests, I don't even wanna label what happened at the Capitol protest it was a riot and it was insurrection.

But police kind of partying, letting people in, no tear gas, really nothing, it was just, there were two different responses and it really, I think, showed pretty plainly two different types of responses to two different types of people.

And it was unfortunate, but that is what I'm sure every black person in America when they looked at that was thinking the same thing.

- To be fair too, some officers did fight back and got injured.

One got killed and several others died.

- I mean, I'll ask, I asked a lot of my friends.

Do you think a black person would have made it to Mitch McConnell's office and sat in his chair and put his feet up and taken his lector?

- Yeah, we heard a soundbite from Congressman Matt Gaetz, the Republican from North Florida at the top of the show.

And he suggested that the BLM protests were just as dangerous as what we saw at the US Capitol on January 6th.

If Gaetz were here, what would you say to him?

- He can suggest all he wants.

Doesn't mean it's true.

An officer was killed in the line of duty.

There were people literally killed and that's just the facts of what happened.

What the actual event was, are two totally different things.

That was an insurrection.

That was an attempt by a mob to storm the Capitol to stop the constitutional duty of Congress to certify the election.

BLM protests were to protest the death of black people in the custody of police, primarily George Floyd at the time.

Those two purposes are very different and it's important that we keep that context and we make sure we talk about that.

The attempt to try to have this false equivalence between riots for Black Lives Matter and riots in the Capitol is a false equivalence.

What happened in the Capitol was not a protest.

It was an insurrectionist riot.

What the protests were, which were largely peaceful.

There were some incidents of violence.

The protest of Black Lives Matter were largely peaceful protests against police brutality.

And to try to equivocate what we saw at the Capitol, that was an attempted insurrection against the United States of America, not even close.

- One of the cries of the protestors and of many Republicans is they say the election was stolen and they point usually to four cities they point to Atlanta, they point to Philadelphia, they point to Detroit and perhaps Milwaukee.

when you hear people complaining and claiming falsely that the election was stolen and pointing to those cities, how do you hear that?

- So, first of all, there's been 60 lawsuits about this.

None of them has found any fraud.

Trump appointees have dismissed the cases.

Trump's own attorney general has said there was no fraud.

Trump's own people have said there was no fraud.

And so, I guess the only fraud that happened was in black cities and it was only for the presidential race.

So the senate races were fine.

It was just the presidential race just in those urban areas.

I mean, come on, man.

We need to get over this, this is Trump was able to whip up his people into this frenzy and that's why he got impeached because he's the one that lit the the torch but there's no fraud.

We, I mean, the Georgia Secretary of State, the Georgia Governor, they said there was no fraud, so what are we doing here?

- How concerned are you that over the next four years under president Biden we're gonna see more of this kind of violence?

- I'm very concerned.

I have to take people at their word.

And you've seen messages you've seen on Parler before it was shut down, you've seen on these social media sites, and people have said it.

They intend to not only on January 17th or whenever that date is that they're gonna, the Capitols around the country are gonna be attacked or something protested, whatever they say and certainly the inauguration, you've seen the increased police presence, but once we're done with the inauguration, I don't think all of a sudden these people are gonna magically say, "Okay, it's over, Joe Biden's president, let's go on."

I think they're gonna continue because they're gonna continue to believe that the election was stolen, they're gonna continue to want to pray at the altar of Trump and they're gonna continue to make trouble.

And yeah, I'm very worried about it.

This is a problem because you're not gonna turn this around.

This can't be turned around.

It is what it is at this point, people believe this.

- We just have about 45 seconds left.

The Democrats selected a new leader this week, Manny Diaz.

A lot of Republicans have left the Republican Party.

They're looking for a new party.

How easy do you think it would be for Democrats to attract those disaffected Republicans?

- I don't think it's as easy as some would have us believe.

Something that I think is a failure of the Democratic Party here in Florida is just messaging and lack thereof.

Our message is nothing but what's been thrust upon us.

So we're the defund the police party, we're socialists.

So we're this, we're that.

And Republicans aren't coming to a party that's been labeled like that.

We need our own message about what we intend to do, how we intend to change people's lives, how we intend to, you know, economic prosperity in this state, how we intend to help with that and the positive things we intend to do.

And you may be able to attract some disaffected Republicans but the lack of a message on the Democratic part, coupled with the attacks from Republicans means that we're not as an attractive alternate as some people would think.

- Sean Shaw, thanks for coming back on Florida This Week.

Good to see you.

- Happy to be here, Rob.

Thanks.

(upbeat music) - Stanley Gray is a businessman with a long history with the Republican Party.

He's active in reestablishing a Tampa Hillsborough County branch of the Urban League.

He's also a Marine and has served to protect presidents Reagan and Bush.

Stanley Gray, thanks for joining us.

Welcome back.

- Well, thank you for the invitation, sir.

- Reports are that these folks that invaded the Capitol got within 90 feet of getting vice president Pence.

You worked on security up there in Washington.

How do you think that happened?

I hate to make a generalized statement that I can't prove but I believe that there's an inside job, I really do.

How difficult it is for you to even go to the floor of either chamber and then for people to get in the buildings and then on the floor, there's something wrong here.

Something's definitely wrong.

- Some of the people that were arrested were ex military.

Does the military have any ability to recall people into the service in court martial them?

- Yeah, you can.

As long as you're receiving a retirement you can be brought back on active duty on the UCMJ.

And you can be charged under the UCMJ.

- Stanley, right now you're an independent.

But I take it that you're a conservative too.

So where do conservatives that don't buy into the white nationalism, the Confederate flags, the illegal takeover of the Capitol, or attempted to take over.

People chanting that they want Pence, threatening to perhaps harm elected officials.

I mean, there's reports that some of these people wanted to assassinate elected officials.

Where does somebody go who has conservative values but doesn't agree with what happened on January, 6th.

- Well, I can only speak to my friends and all of us are independent.

My close friends, all of us are independent.

And the ones who aren't, we don't speak to them.

And it's not because they support Trump, it's the values that they adhere to which makes me not trust them.

- Is the Republican Party, is the Republican party a viable party now?

Or what do you think the future of the Republican Party is?

- That remains to be seen.

Right now the Republican Party.

Trump is one of hate and white supremacists.

And if you notice the other day when Trump gave his apology speech, he didn't say anything about the white supremacists.

You know, he didn't do anything about that.

That's his base.

That's where he can get riled up.

- What do you think of the people that are standing by and defending the president right now?

147 members of Congress have stood by him voted not to impeach him.

And what do you make of the people that are standing by him?

- You can't legislate this but they are moral cowards, pure plain simple, moral cowards.

We may think it's okay for the president to play an active part in an act of insurrection and he should not be held accountable.

They're moral cowards.

- Well, Stanley Gray, thank you for coming on Florida This Week.

It's always great to have you on the program.

- Thank you very much.

Be well, everybody.

(upbeat music) - Thanks for watching Florida This Week.

Your comments are always welcome.

Please write us at ftw@wedu.org and continue the conversation on Facebook.

You can watch this and past shows online at wedu.org.

You can also listen to the program Monday at 11:00 a.m. on WMNF 88.5 FM.

Be sure to download the PBS app so you can watch this and your other favorite PBS programs on your cell phone.

Please join us next Friday night at 8:30 and Sunday afternoon at 12:30.

And from all of us here at WEDU.

Be safe and have a happy Martin Luther King day weekend.

(upbeat music) - [Announcer] Florida This Week, it's a production of WEDU, who is solely responsible for its content.

(upbeat music)