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♪♪ ANNOUNCER: Connecting Marylanders to their government.

This is State Circle.

JEFF SALKIN: Welcome to State Circle.

Just ahead on our program this week, a new ecofriendly trend in funerals.

We'll find out what that entails.

And the Green Party has its nominee for governor.

We will hear his platform, but first this week, the love boat it was not, maybe the lobbying boat.

Governor Moore took a bipartisan group of federal lawmakers on a tour of the Key Bridge site.

On the agenda, shoring up congressional support for 100 percent Federal funding despite delays and escalating costs.

We spoke with Transportation Authority Executive Director, Bruce Gartner.

BRUCE GARTNER: Really the purpose of it was to to demonstrate the uh to those members of Congress, you know, a bipartisan group of of individuals uh, that we are moving this project forward.

Um been getting good cooperation from our federal partners, uh in this in this process as we've transitioned to a new procurement method and just so they could see the activity that is really going on out in the river.

JEFF: This wasn't just to spend a nice day near the Chesapeake Bay.

I mean, is there a concern that that the current 100 percent federal funding commitment um might need to be shored up?

GARTNER: Um, no.

There's no current concern that's changed.

Um, all our discussions over the past several months have been uh very positive with the federal government.

We've been talking about these uh key members of Congress coming out to see the site uh for for quite a while.

So just getting their schedules lined up to do that was uh, you know it happened to happen uh on a good day in in July.

JEFF: What's happening um beneath the the surface uh at this point?

Because in terms of the the tour boat, what could people actually see?

GARTNER: So right on the surface you see these very large cranes, the weeks 533 and 531 doing the pile driving for those large two, you know, up some of them are 230 feet feet long.

Um and those are going into the river down into the riverbed.

Um you know we have to get some significant depths in that that muddy Patapsco river bottom to uh get the strength of for the bridge that we are building.

JEFF: Where do we stand with contractors because the the prime contractor was was kind of shown the door.

There was a disagreement a few months ago.

GARTNER: Sure.

Well um, you know, just this week, we've advertised the the next procurement, uh, the an RFQ we've, uh, put out on the street for for teams to, uh, submit their qualifications on.

That's going to be a two-step process for the main span of the bridge.

So, uh that one takes a little while to procure because we've got to shortlist those teams and give them uh, more information for them to get um, prices together on.

Uh, but that's all the marine work, the main span, the peer protection.

Uh, so that's that's out within the contracting community right now.

So within 60 days, you know, getting that out there and we have several more contracts that are queuing up to go out on the street as well.

JEFF: What's the latest estimate of the total cost and what's the latest estimate on a on a completion date?

We know the governor would like to see this done before he leaves office.

GARTNER: Absolutely.

And that's what we are we are working towards that uh that 2030 date that we've previously advertised.

Uh we know that's aspirational given that the that little bit of time lag to get this next procurement out on this on the street, but um that we will see what we get back from the contracting community in terms of what they can deliver.

Uh in terms of the price, we are still in that $5 billion range and uh that is was evidenced to us by the independent cost estimates.

We had two different independent cost estimates as we entered into negotiations with the prior contractor.

Nothing has changed um in our minds on that cost.

Um, you know, we we plan for some escalations.

Obviously, a dynamic uh world uh supply chain market and oil costs impact things, but that's the range that we are sticking to right now.

JEFF: For people who haven't seen the uh the current design, I mean, it it it looks great and it looks a lot like the uh the new bridge in Detroit.

It's a cable stayed design.

Uh those are increasingly popular.

Uh tell us about that.

GARTNER: Sure.

Those cable stay bridges are really the most economical way to construct these large uh large bridge structures.

Um they have um uh a faster construction time compared to more complex bridge types.

So that is why you're seeing uh so many of them around the world.

Fortunately, they're also beautiful bridges.

JEFF: The the obvious difference between our bridge and the Detroit bridge is that um the the Detroit design has the the main span of almost 3,000 ft.

So the the main peers are pretty far apart.

Our design has the main peers a lot closer about 1,000 ft closer.

So closer to- GARTNER: 16- 1,700 feet, GARTNER: 16but yes.et, but yes.

JEFF: Okay.

So closer to the shipping channel, not a whole lot bigger than the previous key bridge.

Would it be possible to move them further out to minimize the the risk of a ship strike?

GARTNER: So uh, we looked at, Jeff I think we might have talked about that last time too, but um, we we looked at the design that we had and the room we had on either side of the bridge.

So, it's a lot about the geography um that you have leading up to your bridge and what you can do on your footprint.

So um in order to move the um the bridge quickly uh design within and construct within our existing footprint because we had those uh environmental approvals for that um this is where the the peers ended up at at a little over 1600 ft.

And uh that's where we have to add that peer protection.

And we also have very, much more significant ships going through uh the Patapsco River than they would uh um, in the Detroit Windsor area.

JEFF: And the the peer protection isn't nothing.

I mean, it's I think it's a billion dollars of of the uh the project cost.

Is there any environmental issue with that because it's it's you know, acres of concrete uh over the river.

GARTNER: Anytime you're working in the river, there are um environmental challenges to overcome, but we've received our permits for the um, for that bridge design.

So, uh we've proven to the um the federal agencies and the local agencies that we can do it in a responsible manner.

Um everything from uh you know I think there's videos that you that folks have seen um where we have bubble curtains right so when the pile driving and all that activity is going on creating vibration for the for the marine life in the river we've got a bubble curtain to to to soften that noise um in down in the river.

JEFF: Sounds interesting how does that work?

GARTNER: Uh it just you know breaks breaks up the um the uh it creates that barrier in the water by by injecting bubbles um into into the river so that the sound is is getting dissipated and and interfered with by the bubble curtain.

If you want a more technical answer, I'll get we can get you our chief engineer to come back on at another point, too.

JEFF: That's okay.

I I could picture like a giant aerator or something.

GARTNER: Yeah, we'll uh, we'll have to show, keybridgerebuild.com.

There's ev- there's uh there's videos of it in action.

keybridgerebuild.com is our website.

So, project updates.

um some really good videos out there to show the progress because it's the thing about this part of the Patapsco River.

Um there's not a lot of shorefront that uh people can can view the progress from.

Uh we have the staging area back on the Beth steel um side that Trade Point Atlantic site.

Um so, you know, we're trying to do as much as we can through social media uh and posting to that website so that the that the stakeholders and the communities can see the progress on the river.

JEFF: What's been the uh the traffic impact?

People who drive around Baltimore a lot are familiar with um longer lines at the the tunnels in in rush hour.

You collect tolls on the tunnels so you you can see, you know where the traffic has gone.

GARTNER: Yeah.

I mean the traffic impacts are severe.

There's no denying that.

We have done some uh some modifications uh to some existing uh facilities.

But when you're talking about two tunnels uh that are trying to accept all this traffic from the key bridge, that and the west side of the beltway um it is a challenge.

So we are seeing um the most significant delays are in that southbound direction in the morning and the northbound direction evening in both tunnels.

JEFF: And the hazmats which we've discussed before need to stay out of the tunnel.

So that that traffic all goes to the west side.

GARTNER: That's correct.

And we're seeing longer distance hazmats, you know, are likely potentially going farther than the the west side if they're if they don't need to go through the the uh the Washington and D.C.

uh and Baltimore area, but the west side is that alternative.

JEFF: Couple of questions about the Bay Bridge while we have you.

Uh number one would be safety.

I think it was the NTSB that after the Key Bridge uh collapse raised some concerns about the Bay Bridge.

Um is anything happening on that?

GARTNER: So there's two things that we've um reported back to the NTSB on.

One is um actual uh peer protection projects.

So we have a project that's uh moving forward in our capital program.

Um we have a a procurement out for uh about a $200 million um kind of phase one solution of that.

But we are also um designing um new you know and going through the environmental process for new crossings at the Bay Bridge location.

So two new facilities.

Um we expect the federal approval of that near the end of this year.

Um so we're doing both of those things and uh we also have reported to the NTSB that you know we have that gate system in place at the Bay Bridge.

Not many other facilities have that gate system in place.

So if we- if there is a reason that we need to quickly halt traffic, which we do for high wind situations unfortunately at the Bay Bridge, uh we have the capacity to do that.

JEFF: Bruce Gartner in charge of the Maryland Transportation Authority.

Sir we appreciate your time.

GARTNER: Thank you.

Appreciate having the opportunity Jeff.

♪♪ JEFF: Maryland's Green Party has chosen its nominee for governor this year.

Joining us is that candidate, Andy Ellis.

Sir thank you for your time.

Congratulations on the the nomination and tell us a little about how that that process works.

ELLIS: Yeah, sure.

Thank you for having me on, Jeff.

I'm excited.

We won the nomination of the Green Party yesterday.

As a non-principal or third party in the state of Maryland, we don't get to use the primaries that the two parties get to use.

So, we run our own nominating process.

Uh, and that has run for the last two weeks or so, mostly with online votes.

Every registered Green in the state of Maryland gets to vote.

We didn't have any opposition, but Greens don't believe that anybody should be nominated just for being on the ballot.

So, we had to run against none of the above.

Uh, and I'm happy to say we we soundly beat none of the above and we'll be moving on to the general election.

JEFF: Well tell us about yourself, your um your background, your qualifications to be governor of the state.

ELLIS: Yeah, sure.

So, um I grew up in Northern Virginia and then I moved to Frederick County uh for high school.

I was on the debate team at Governor Thomas Johnson High School.

Uh and then I went to St.

Mary's in Towson where I continued to do debate work for a while.

Uh then I spent about a decade traveling around the country teaching young people how to engage in debate, engage in civic engagement.

And in 2005 I came back here and I ran the Baltimore Urban Debate League middle school debate program.

We took 14 persistently dangerous schools ruled by No Child Left Behind uh and set up middle school debate programs in them.

Then in 2008, I coached at Towson University when they won their first national championship uh... at the college level.

Uh then I did about 15 years of corporate uh technology work uh until last year when I was when I was laid off in a round of layoffs.

In 2024 I was on the Baltimore City Charter Commission.

Uh and I've been an advocate for grassroots democracy um and social justice for about for about two decades at this point.

Uh, and I'm excited to be able to um take my case to the people of Maryland for why we need a new kind of system that puts politics in the hands of the people and not of the two parties we have right now.

JEFF: Well, tell us about your your platform, the Green Party platform, which I I guess are well aligned at this point.

ELLIS: So, the platform is justice, democracy, peace, and ecological wisdom.

Uh, and we think that that translates well into Maryland politics on a couple of key issues.

One of the things that we've been focusing on quite a bit is data centers this year.

We've been traveling around the state everywhere that people are fighting against data centers and trying to keep them out of their community in order to support those communities.

We've also been pushing for um what we call a Maryland model of multi-party democracy that would allow more people to be involved, more views to be represented, and more parties to be healthy in the state of Maryland.

Um you know, and and I think those are the big things that we're pushing right now.

I think the last thing I would say that's really important to us and given my background in debate is an investment in the civic infrastructure so that we can have better conversations with each other.

We can figure out what the solutions we need are.

We can figure out what the policies we are and we can break out of the two-party binary that is restricting all of us.

JEFF: Well, tell tell us more about that.

What sort of system do you have in mind?

Because of course uh in this age of of social media and all sorts of um streaming and and internet um venues, I mean there's plenty of discussion.

Maybe it's just gone in a thousand different directions.

ELLIS: I think it is.

And I think that one of the things that has to happen is the state has to make an investment in that kind of infrastructure if they want to see something change.

So there's a couple things that we call for.

One, we call for universal debate education at every public school from middle school to college in the state of Maryland.

It was beneficial for me.

It was beneficial for a lot of students in Baltimore.

And when I travel around the state, there's a lot of parents who would love it if their kids had access to that.

Two, we think that there is a kind of town hall that can go beyond the sort of pep rally town hall that we see right now all the time in which we, you know, sort of randomly sample voters just like they would for a poll, get them in front of their elected officials and allow them to have real dialogue.

This is based on a model that a couple of scholars have worked on and they have found that it is incredible at getting politicians to understand what their voters think and voters to understand what their politicians think.

And the third thing I think is that we believe that public television should be a key part of fostering that debate.

Not only do we believe uh that all candidates should be allowed on the stage for any debates that public television hosts, but we believe that like they do in other countries, third parties should have access in order to do political programming uh on public television.

We think the public television is a core part of civic dialogue and we think that investing, you know, we call for doubling the MPT budget um in our in our campaign and we think that that is a key part of making sure that people have the information they need and the formats they need in order to see uh what different opinions are.

JEFF: Well, we we appreciate the support of public television.

I don't think I can comment on uh on political debates.

So, let me pick up on data centers, which um the state was was gung-ho.

We're going to go out and get more data centers a couple of years ago.

Then it becomes clear that these things are driving up everybody's utility bills.

But in terms of of neighbors, I I'm not sure I understand um, why anybody might prefer to see another type of enterprise come in.

A factory, something that's going to have a lot of traffic, might have some degree of pollution.

Um, I mean, the downside on these things is they don't really employ that many people on an ongoing basis.

So, there's not a lot of traffic, you know.

ELLIS: So, I mean, I think the downside, there's a lot of downsides.

People are worried about the pollution.

I was in Adamstown at Carol Manor Elementary School and and Frederick County a couple of weeks ago where there's an elementary school that is going to be right next to a large data center campus.

Those folks are worried about the pollution from the diesel generators getting uh into their community and affecting the students.

JEFF: Oh, that's okay.

So, just to clarify, I mean, the diesels are only a fallback, right?

I mean, they're not running 24/7.

ELLIS: They're not running 24/7, but as the grid gets more and more strained and as climate change means we have more hot days and more cold winter storms, there's a lot of times that those things are going to be running and they get tested relatively frequently.

And if we don't build transmission in order to deal with the capacity, those things are going to run more and more and more.

So, I think it's a real concern when it's right next to an elementary school like it is in Adamstown.

Um, but it's not just that.

It's the noise.

Uh, it's the it's the, you know, it's the noise, it's the water pollution, it's a lot of things, but what I'm noticing as I go around the state, it is it's not just those things.

80 percent of people don't want data centers in their community.

And part of it is each of those environmental concerns, but part of it is that they don't trust their governments to be looking out for them.

And they worry that their county governments and the state governments are working with the corporations instead of the neighbors and the communities.

And I think that's the thing that unifies a lot of this is a fear that there's secrecy and a fear that those data centers are being helped by the politicians who are listening to the corporations and not the people.

JEFF: Let's come back to the future of the Green Party for for a minute.

Um, you know, the the big growth when you look at uh, who's registered with which political party in Maryland, the the fastest growing uh category of registration is unaffiliated.

So, I mean, it would seem that there's some level of dissatisfaction then with the main political parties and it might be an an area of growth.

How do you see that?

ELLIS: 100 percent.

So, I think that this year is a great opportunity to grow the Green Party as an advocate of unaffiliated voters.

[Crosstalk] JEFF: Those people can't register as member of the Green the Green Party, right?

There's no such thing.

ELLIS: They could they could register as members of the Green Party if they wanted to.

There's about 6,000 voters affiliated with the Green Party in the state of Maryland right now, but all it allows them to do is to participate in our internal primary process.

And so, we've been reaching out to unaffiliated voters um, everywhere we go.

You know, I spent most of the legislative session in the new government labor and elections committee in Annapolis advocating for multi-party democracy, advocating for independent voters to be included in the process, advocating for campaign finance reform.

And as we travel around the state and talk about the way that the two-party system is broken, a lot of people agree and are looking for something different.

And we think in this election that's a repeat of the 2022 election, there's a really good chance to send a signal that says we're tired of the two parties that exist as they are and we want to move towards something where independents and people who want more choices have those choices.

And I think a vote for us is a vote for that kind of change.

And I think a vote for Dan Cox or Wes Moore is a vote for more of the same two-party system that everybody knows isn't working.

JEFF: I think of the Greens, and maybe this is outdated, as being maybe a more progressive group than the than the average Democrat, but we're seeing the progressive wing of the Democratic party is is migrating towards this Democratic socialist group.

So, there's a little bit of divide there.

How how do you see that?

ELLIS: You know, I I think that we are more progressive and we agree with a lot of what the DSA folks have to say and we've collaborated with them a lot in the past and we collaborate with them during this race.

But one of the things that I think is most interesting is one of the groups of people who most who finds our campaign most appealing are like what I would call like center right independents who are tired of both parties, don't see themselves represented in Dan Cox's Republican party and don't embrace, you know, Wes Moore's sort of corporate uh Democratic party.

And I think those folks are coming to understand that they don't have to agree with us on everything, but they can agree with us on the important things like ending the corruption of the two-party system and making sure that we have a politics that is focused on voters, not national narratives, donors or party bosses.

JEFF: Let me ask you about the uh the spoiler effect uh question, where we've seen in the past a um a third party candidate might get a small percentage of the vote but it seems to be enough to shift the results of the election in sort of the the opposite direction that that they intended not an issue in this campaign but overall as somebody who would like to see third party growth is that a limiting factor?

ELLIS: So two things, one in this election the only people who are accusing us of being a spoiler are Dan Cox supporters.

Uh Dan Cox supporters keep telling us that a vote for us is functionally a vote for Wes Moore because they think that they are able to turn his 30-point loss in the 2022 election into a win by harnessing the anger at Moore.

I think that there's a whole lot of people who are angry at Wes Moore who have no stomach for a MAGA Republican like Dan Cox.

So we are getting in this election we are getting called spoiler but it's by Dan Cox supporters which I think is an interesting twist on things.

The second thing I would say is that power to spoil is the power to influence outcomes.

And so for a really long time, Greens have run away from that and said, "Oh, no, we don't do that.

We're just helping, you know, people have choices outside of the system."

We are doing that, but the ability to influence the outcome is what allows us to go to Annapolis after uh, before the campaign and after the campaign and try to get different outcomes from a legislature who might not be looking at it that way.

So, you know, if we think about if we think about some of the things we're running on, if we make a big impact on data centers this year, this election may not be close.

But if we get three, four, 5 percent, which would be the best that any third party campaign for governor has had since reconstruction, that sends a signal to Democrats in Annapolis that they can't ignore that side of the that side of the ledger if next election is closer.

So, uh, what I would say is like at the end of the day, we need to lean into our power to influence outcomes when we are on the ballot.

And some of that is threatening to spoil.

That threat to spoil is what moves the needle in a different direction and what changes outcomes from what they could have been.

JEFF: Our thanks to Mr.

Ellis.

Now, it could be the greenest goodbye.

A new local company is offering human composting as an eco-friendly burial alternative.

Nancy Yamada has the story.

TOM HARRIES: Instead of offering barrel cremation services, we transform bodies into soil.

NANCY YAMADA: It's happening inside the 37,000 sq.

ft.

warehouse in Elkridge.

Earth Funeral is the first human composting facility on the east coast.

HARRIES: We are um a fully natural process.

Um we're creating perfect conditions for microbes to break the body down at a molecular level.

Co-founder and CEO Tom Harries believes transforming human remains into soil will become a popular alternative to burial, which is limited by space, and cremation, which involves burning fossil fuels.

Inside these vessels, from start to finish, the process takes 30 days.

What you're going to see here is a layer of organic mulch, wood chip, and wildflower um that is naturally carbon dense.

Um and the body is nitrogen dense.

So, we're creating a perfect condition uh a ratio of carbon to nitrogen.

What we're then doing is optimizing temperature, moisture, and oxygen levels within the vessel.

And that creates perfect conditions for microbes to break the body down at a molecular level.

NANCY: Afterwards, families can receive up to 300 pounds of their loved ones soil to spread where they choose, divide among family and friends, or donate to conservation efforts.

DEL.

JESSICA FELDMARK: His remains are being put to good use um to you know to strengthen the environment and um... and I think it's really important that we have options like that closer to home.

NANCY: Delegate Jessica Feldmark was pleased that Earth Funeral chose to open up their facility in her district.

She's a believer after utilizing a similar human composting service on the West Coast after the death of her father last fall.

She said it was in line with his career as a scientist and efforts as an environmental actor.

DEL.

FELDMARK: I think he'd be very pleased with the the decision we made.

Um I think, you know, it's definitely in keeping with his goal of minimizing his carbon footprint um during his life and and also in his death.

You know, I think he'd be very pleased that it's now available closer to home.

Um that that access is increasing and that awareness and popularity is growing.

NANCY: Earth Funeral is committed to making the process as comforting as possible for loved ones.

There's a dedicated space to say their private goodbyes.

HARRIES: Families can write uh handwritten uh notes that accompany their loved ones through the process um or go into the vessel.

Um they can bring flowers.

Um we had a family many years ago uh who put a lasagna in the process.

Um, so anything that's biodegradable can go in the vessel.

Um, and it brings comfort and meaning to different families.

NANCY: In order to operate in Maryland, the legislature passed the Green Death Care Act, which set up guidelines for operating.

Right now, 14 other states allow human composting.

Harry's believes demand will only grow as more people learn about the eco-friendly alternative.

I'm Nancy Yamada for State Circle.

JEFF: And that is State Circle for this week.

Join us every week at this time for the latest on Maryland's political stage.

Remember, you can see our recent programs at video.mpt.tv and through the free PBS app.

We can also be found on social media @MPT News.

We're back Monday with Direct Connection and your chance to ask the experts.

That's Monday evening live at 7.

Now, for all of us at MPT, thanks for watching.

We'll see you back here Monday.

♪♪