CONNECTING MARYLANDERS TO THEIR GOVERNMENT THIS IS "STATE CIRCLE".

>> Jeff: WELCOME TO "STATE CIRCLE".

JUST AHEAD ON OUR PROGRAM THIS WEEK GOOD NEWS IN A NEW REPORT ON THE POST PANDEMIC RECOVERY OF MARYLAND STUDENTS.

AND VETERANS FACING ADDICTION TO GAMBLING.

FIRST TONIGHT, THE MARYLAND PRESCRIPTION DRUG AFFORDABILITY BOARD IS MOVING CLOSER TO CAPPING THE PRICES OF SOME DRUGS.

WE SPOKE WITH ONE OF THE LEADERS OF THE EFFORT, VINCENT DEMARCO THE PRESIDENT.

MARYLAND HEALTHCARE FOR ALL COALITION.

>> MARYLAND WAS THE FIRST STATE IN THE NATION TO ENACT THE PRESCRIPTION DRUG AFFORDABILITY BOARD, GIVING THE BOARD MAKING HIGH COST DRUGS MORE AFFORDABLE.

THERE WERE ROADBLOCKS PUT UP BY OUR FORMER GOVERNOR AND GOVERNOR MOORE COMMITTED TO THE BOARD AND GAVE THEM THE RESOURCES THEY NEED AND NOW ON APRIL 13TH A SET AN UPPER PAYMENT LIMIT ON WHAT STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS PAY FOR THE DRUG YARDIANS.

THAT WILL SAVE OVER $320,000 A YEAR FOR STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS.

AND WE BELIEVE THAT THIS COMING MONDAY, MAY 18TH, THEY WILL SET THE SAME UPPER PAYMENT LIMITS FOR STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS FOR OZEMPIC.

THAT WILL SAVE 5.8 MILLION A YEAR FOR STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS.

BIG PROGRESS.

>> Jeff: WHO ARE THE CUSTOMERS OF THESE INSURANCE PLANS?

I MEAN THIS IS NOT THE BIG STUFF MEDICARE, MEDICAID, THIS IS PEOPLE WHO WORK FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS?

>> YOU SHOULD THINK ABOUT IT AS THE STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS THEMSELVES.

EVERYTHING THEY SPEND MONEY ON PRESCRIPTION DRUGS WHICH INCLUDES EMPLOYEES, INCLUDES PRISONS, INCLUDES HOSPITALS STATE HOSPITALS AND IT INCLUDES SCHOOLS.

IT INCLUDES A LOT THAT STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS SPEND MONEY ON.

HOWARD COUNTY SCHOOLS SYSTEM STOPPED HAVING OZEMPIC AVAILABLE FOR WEIGHT LOSS BECAUSE IT WAS SO EXPENSIVE AND STEWART PITTMAN SAYS THEY SPENT TWICE AS MUCH ON THE COST OF DRUGS FOR EMPLOYEES THAN ON LIBRARIES.

STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS ARE BEING GOUGE SMED THIS WILL HELP PREVENT THAT.

IT WILL SAVE MONEY FOR STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS THEY ARE SPENDING ON DRUGS WHEN THEY SHOULDN'T BE HELPING TAXPAYERS.

>> Jeff: HOW DOES THIS BOARD DECIDE WHAT THE PRICE OUGHT TO BE?

IS IT NEGOTIATED IS IT DICTATED.

>> WE CANNOT REGULATE THE PRICE.

THE PRICE IS SET BY THE DRUG CORPORATIONS.

THE STATE CAN AFFECT WHAT WE PAY FOR IT.

AND THE AMOUNT THAT MARYLAND SET THE UPPER PAYMENT LIMIT FOR IS THE SAME AMOUNT THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT UNDER THE INFLATION REDUCTION ACT SET FOR MEDICARE CALLED THE MAXIMUM FAIR PRICE.

THIS IS A LAW PUT IN BY PRESIDENT BIDEN AND PRESIDENT TRUMP IS IMPLEMENTED IT'S BIPARTISAN AND IT SETS UPPER -- A NEGOTIATION AMOUNT FOR MEDICARE THAT SAVED MEDICARE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND NOW MARYLAND STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AREN'T GOING TO PAY ANYMORE.

>> Jeff: LET'S SAY THERE IS A DRUG WHERE THE LIST PRICE IS $100 AND THIS BOARD SAYS WE'RE ONLY PAYING $90.

CAN THE DRUG COMPANIES SAY WE'RE NOT SELLING IT?

>> WELL, THEY CAN SAY IT BUT THEY WON'T DO IT.

THEY WILL CONTINUE TO SELL THE DRUGS AND STILL MAKE A ON THE OF MONEY.

IN ADDITION OUR CONSUMER PROTECTION LAW SAYS IF YOU ADVERTISE SOMETHING AND THEN DON'T SELL IT THAT VIOLATES LAW AND THEY ADVERTISE THE DRUGS THERE IS NO WAY THEY WILL STOP SELLING THE DRUGS.

IN 2025, THANKS TO GOVERNOR MOORE, AND SENATORS AND OUR WONDERFUL SPEAKER, JOSS, THE LEGISLATURE PASSED THE BILL AND THE GOVERNOR SIGNED ONE YEAR AFTER THE BOARD SETS AN UPPER PAYMENT LIMIT FOR TWO DRUGS THEY CAN SET IT FOR EVERYBODY.

LET'S TAKE THE TWO DRUGS.

THEIR UPPER PAYMENT LIMITS WILL TAKE EFFECT JANUARY 1, 2027.

ONE YEAR LATER, ON JANUARY 1, 2028 THE BOARD CAN SET THAT UPPER PAYMENT LIMIT FOR ALL MEMBERS THAT WILL SAVE $16 MILLION A YEAR FOR MARYLANDERS AND OZEMPIC UP TO $164 MILLION A YEAR.

>> Jeff: A LEGAL CHALLENGE AT THAT POINT?

>> PROBABLY BUT THEY LOSE.

THERE HAVE BEEN TONS OF LEGAL CHALLENGES TO THE INFLATION ACT AND THEY'VE LOST.

COLORADO DO AN UPPER PAYMENT LAW AND THEY ARE IN A LAWSUIT.

WE SAY YOU CAN CHARGE WHATEVER YOU WANT WE'RE ONLY GOING TO PAY A REASONABLE AMOUNT.

>> Jeff: SO IN RESEARCHING FOR OUR INTERVIEW, I GOOGLED THE NAME OF THE BOARD THE MARYLAND PRESCRIPTION DRUG AFFORDABILITY BOARD.

AND THE FIRST HIT WAS AN ATTACK AD FROM THE PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY WHICH I'M SURE WARMS YOUR HEART.

AND THEIR LINE OF ATTACK WAS THAT MARYLAND HAS SPENT MILLIONS TO CREATE AND RUN THIS BOARD AND NOBODY HAS SAVED A PENNY.

>> FIRST OF ALL THE BOARD HAS ONLY SPENT MONEY IT COLLECTS FROM THE DRUG CORPORATIONS AND INSURERS THEY PUT AN ASSESSMENT ON THEM OF A THOUSAND DOLLARS A YEAR.

THAT IS HOW THEY ARE FUNDED.

SECONDLY, THEY ARE ACTING NOW AND THEY WILL SAVE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

AS I SAID THIS DIDN'T HAPPEN SOONER BECAUSE OUR FORMER GOVERNOR DELAYED THINGS, VETOED THE BILL TO PROVIDE THE ASSESSMENT.

UNDER GOVERNOR MOORE THIS BOARD IS ACTING.

IT IS NOW GOING TO SAVE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR MARYLANDERS AND REALLY WORK.

AND OTHER STATES ARE FOLLOWING OUR LEAD.

>> Jeff: DRUG COMPANIES ALSO POINT THE BLAME AT PHARMACY BENEFIT MANAGERS AND ANYBODY WHO HAS DEALT WITH A PHARMACY BENEFIT MANAGER DESPISES THEM.

IS IN ANYTHING TO THAT?

IS THAT WHERE THE BLAME LIES HAD?

>> WE SAY ALL WE WANT TO DO IS HELP MARYLANDERS.

THE UPPER PAYMENT LIMIT SETS A LIMIT ON WHAT MARYLANDERS PAY FOR HIGH COST DRUGS AND NOBODY CAN GOUGE THEM NOT THE DRUG CORPORATIONS NOT THE PBM'S THIS LAW IS PRO MARYLANDER AND THAT IS WHO IT HELPS.

ANOTHER ARGUMENT IS THEY NEED THE HIGH PRICES FOR RESEARCH AND IF THEY CAN'T GOUGE US THIS MUCH MONEY THEY CAN'T DO THE RESEARCH.

WE HAD A STUDY DONE IN 2022 THE DRUG CORPORATIONS SPENT $DO 0 BILLION MORE ON PROFITS AND THOSE ADS WE SEE ALL THE TIME THAN ON RESEARCH.

THE DRUGS CAN BE MADE AFFORDABLE AND MORE.

DRUGS DO NOT WORK IF PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD THEM.

WE NEED TO MAKE THE DRUGS MORE AFFORDABLE SO MORE PEOPLE CAN GET THEM.

>> Jeff: IS THAT THE ECONOMIC PROBLEM HERE?

IT DOES COST A FORTUNE TO COME UP WITH THE NEXT BLOCKBUSTER DRUG.

YOU HAVE TO CREATE, AND RESEARCH AND TEST I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TO FIND ONE THAT IS GOING TO HELP A LOT OF PEOPLE.

AND THEN YOU KNOW, THE INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS THEY GET A DOZEN YEARS TO CHARGE PEOPLE A FORTUNE TO MAKE BACK THAT INVESTMENT AND THEY WOULD ARGUE INVEST IN THE NEXT BLOCKBUSTER DRUG.

WE CAN CUT IT OFF, BUT WE CAN LIMIT HAD THEIR PROFITS BUT ARE WE THEN LIMITING THE CHANCES OF CURING CANCER A DECADE FROM NOW?

>> NOT AT ALL.

MUCH OF THE RESEARCH MONEY COMES FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THAT IS WHY SENATOR VAN HOLLEN PAULED THE WE PAID ACT IF YOUR DRUG RESEARCH WAS PAID FOR BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT YOU CANNOT CHARGE US TWICE.

AND TWO, AS I SAID THEY SPENT $20 BILLION PORE IN 2022 ON PROFITS AND ADVERTISING THAN ON RESEARCH.

THESE DRUGS CAN BE MADE MORE AFFORDABILITY AND THEY CAN HAVE PLENTY OF MONEY FOR RESEARCH.

WE HEAR STORIES FROM PEOPLE THAT JUST CANNOT GET THE DRUGS.

ONE GENTLEMAN TRIED TO GET THE DRUG AND COULDN'T AFFORD IT AND LEFT AND THE DRUG FOUND OUT THE GUY DIED BECAUSE HE COULD NOT PAY FOR THE DRUG.

THE DRUGS NEED TO BE MADE MORE AFFORDABLE AND WE PAY HIGHER THAN WE NEED TO INSURANCE PREMIUMS BECAUSE OF THE HIGH COST THAT INSURERS PAY FOR THESE DRUGS.

>> Jeff: IN ALL THE TIME YOU'VE SPENT ON THIS ISSUE, ANY ADVICE FOR THAT PERSON WHO IS FACING THE BILL FOR A DRUG THAT THEY NEED, BUT CANNOT AFFORD?

WE HAVE THIS PATCHWORK OF DIFFERENT THINGS, THE MARK CUBAN THINGS, COUPONS FROM VARIOUS ON-LINE PROVIDERS, IF YOU HAVE MEDICAID OR MEDICARE, I MEAN THERE IS A BUTCH OF WAYS TO GO.

WHAT DO YOU RECOMMEND?

>> IF A DRUG IS CAUSING YOU SERIOUS PROBLEMS LET THE PRESCRIPTION DRUG AFFORDABILITY BOARD KNOW.

THEY WANT TO KNOW WHAT DRUGS THEY SHOULD SET PAYMENT LIMITS FOR AND THEY HEAR FROM YOU IT WILL HELP THEM.

AND REACH OUT TO THE BOARD BECAUSE THEY CAN TELL YOU WHAT RESOURCES ARE OUT THERE NOW, ARE THERE COULD COUPONS AND OTHER W. P DAB.PDAB.MARYLAND.GOV AND YOU CAN CONTACT THEM.

LET THEM KNOW WITH WHAT HIGH COST DRUGS ARE HURTING YOU AND ASK THEM FOR THEIR HELP.

>> Jeff: IN THIS SYSTEM THERE IS A NEW IDEA FROM THE WHITE HOUSE WHERE FOR PEOPLE PAYING CASH THEY HAVE CERTAIN DRUGS AVAILABLE AT A DISCOUNT.

IS THAT HELPING ANYBODY?

>> THAT IS A TINY, TINY PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE WHO PURCHASE DRUGS.

A TINY PERCENTAGE AND IT'S A GLORIFIED COUPON.

WE THANK THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION FOR FULLY IMPLEMENTING THE INFLATION REDUCTION ACT WE WANT THEM TO KEEP DOING THAT.

THIS TERRIFIC LAW IS SAVING MEDICARE LOTS OF MONEY.

BUT THE OTHER THINGS ARE MOSTLY GIMMICKS AND WE KNOW THAT BECAUSE THE DRUG COMPANIES LOVE IT.

THE INFLATION REDUCTION ACT IS SERIOUS AND AS YOU SAID THEY ARE FILING LAWSUITS AGAINST IT.

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, LAWS LIKE THE INFLATION REDUCTION ACT AND THE PRESCRIPTION DRUG AFFORDABILITY BOARD WORK BECAUSE THEY DO WHAT OTHER NATIONS HAVE BEEN DOING WHICH IS SAYING YOU CAN CHARGE WHATEVER YOU WANT, WE ARE NOT GOING TO PAY THAT WE'RE GOING TO PAY A REASONABLE AMOUNT.

LET ME REFER TO ONE OF MY HEROS.

ELIJAH CUMMINGS HE WAS CHAIR OF THE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE HE BROUGHT BEFORE HIM A GROUP OF DRUG EXECUTIVES AND SAID TO ONE YOU RAISED YOUR PRICE 5,000% ON A DRUG AROUND FOR A LONGTIME AND PEOPLE NEED IT.

WHY DID YOU DO THAT?

AND YOU KNOW WHAT HE SAID?

HE SAID BECAUSE I CAN.

WELL, WE SAY TO THEM IN MARYLAND YOU NO LONGER CAN.

BECAUSE WE HAVE A PRESCRIPTION DRUG AFFORDABILITY BOARD WHICH WILL PROTECT MARYLANDER.

>> Jeff: VINCENT DEMARCO THE PRESIDENT OF THE HEALTHCARE FOR ALL COALITION, SIR, WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

WE LOVE "STATE CIRCLE".

>> Jeff: ONE OF THE SIDE EFFECTS OF THE AVAILABILITY OF GAMBLE SOMETHING MORE GAMBLING ADDICTION INCLUDING AMONG VETERANS.

AS NANCY YAMADA REPORTS.

[♪♪] >> I THINK IT WAS AROUND 2012 CAME BACK FROM A DEPLOYMENT.

AND THAT WAS WHEN MARYLAND FIRST STARTED GETTING CASINOS.

SO ARYLAND LIVE WAS OPEN.

I STARTED GOING TO MARYLAND LIVE AND STARTED OFF AS YOU KNOW I JUST WANTED TO CHECK IT OUT.

AND NEXT THING YOU KNOW I WAS THERE DAY.

>> AL MURRAY SAYS HE BEGAN GAMBLING AS A CHILD PLAYING CARDS TO MAKE MONEY TO HELP HIS MOTHER MAKE ENDS MEET.

BY THE TIME HE JOINED THE ARMY HE WAS HOOKED IN PLAYING HIS HAND IN CASINOS.

>> I WENT THROUGH MY 401K, TSP, ALL MY SAVINGS.

I WAS BORROWING MONEY FROM EVERYWHERE.

RUINED MY CREDIT.

>> THE PHOTOS HIDE HIS ROCK BOTTOM WHEN HE TRIED TO COMMIT SUICIDE.

>> ENDED UP LOSING FAMILY.

GOT A DIVORCE.

LOST, I USED TO OWN A HOUSE.

LOST MY HOUSE.

I HAD CARS.

SO EVERYTHING THAT I WORKED HARD TO GET LIKENEDDED UP JUST LOSING OVER GAMBLING.

>> AFTER REACHING OUT TO THE V.A.

MARYLAND HEALTHCARE SYSTEM IN BALTIMORE, HE DISCOVERED HE IS NOT ALONE.

VETERANS EXPERIENCE SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER RATES OF GAMBLING ADDICTION OFTEN DOUBLE OR TRIPLE THE GENERAL POPULATION.

FOR GOOD REASONS, AS SENIOR SOCIAL WORKER RICE THE MOST PRESSING QUESTIONS FOR VETERANS WITH A GAMBLING ADDICTION?

>> AM I DOING THIS FOR THE ESCAPE.

AM I DOING IT FOR EXCITEMENT.

AM I DOING IT FOR ECONOMIC REASONS.

>> OTHERS ARE DOING IT FOR THE ADRENALINE RUSH SIMILAR TO WHAT THEY EXPERIENCED IN COMBAT.

MURRAY IS LEARNING HOW TO KEEP THE ADDICTION AT BAY WITH MEDICATION AND INDIVIDUAL AND GROUP THERAPY WHERE HE IS LEARNING THE TOOLS AND TECHNIQUES TO COPE.

>> WHAT WORKS FOR AL WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT IT IS HIS DESIRE TO MAKE A CHANGE.

AND SO IN HONESTLY ASSESSING WHERE HE IS IN HIS RECOVERY PROCESS, AND CONTINUING TO WORK IN THERAPY TO ADDRESS IDENTIFY WHAT HIS GOALS ARE, HOW HIS GOALS MAYBE EVOLVING, THE IMPACT THAT GAMBLING MAY HAVE HAD ON HIS LIFE PREVIOUSLY.

AND THE CHANGES THAT HE WANTS TO MAKE AS A RESULT OF THAT.

>> AS WITH MOST ADDICTIONS RELAPSE IS COMMON.

>> DO YOU STILL GET THE URGE TO GAMBLE?

>> OH, EVERYDAY.

GOT TO RIDE THE WAVE.

IT'S GETTING USED TO SITTING IN THAT UNCOMFORTABLE FEELING THAT IS THE HARDEST PART.

BECAUSE AS I SAY, ONCE AN ADDICT ALWAYS AN ADDICT.

>> SETBACKS WILL NOT UNDERMINE THE PROGRESS HE HAS MADE.

I'M NANCY YAMADA FOR "STATE CIRCLE".

[♪♪] >> Jeff: NOW OUR NEWSMAKER IS THOMAS KANE A PROFESSOR AT THE HARVARD GRADUATE SCHOOL OF EDUCATION.

SIR, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

WE KNOW THE PANDEMIC WAS A DIFFICULT TIME FOR EDUCATION IN AMERICA.

THE KIDS UNABLE TO GO TO SCHOOL.

NOW OBVIOUSLY IT'S A FEW YEARS IN THE PAST WE HAVE MORE TIME AND DATA TO LOOK BACK AT WHAT HAPPENED.

AND YOU HAVE A NEW REPORT?

WHAT DOES IT SHOW?

>> .

>> JEFF, ONE OF THE STRIKING THINGS ABOUT THE DATA IS THAT IT IS CLEAR IN RETROSPECT THAT THE PROBLEMS WITH U.S.

EDUCATION STARTED BEFORE THE PANDEMIC.

SO THE PANDEMIC MAY HAVE BEEN THE MUDSLIDE, BUT THE STEADY EROSION STARTED IN THE SEVEN YEARS BEFORE THE PANDEMIC.

>> Jeff: STOP THERE.

WHAT WAS ERODING?

>> SO, A STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT.

ESPECIALLY READING ACHIEVEMENT.

THERE'S BEEN A STEADY DECLINE ACTUALLY THE DECLINE IN THE THREE YEARS BEFORE THE PANDEMIC AND IN THE TWO YEARS AFTER THE PANDEMIC, WERE JUST AS STEEP AS DURING THE PANDEMIC.

WHICH SHOULD MAKE IT CLEAR TO PEOPLE THAT THE PANDEMIC'S OVER, BUT THERE'S SOME MORE FUNDAMENTAL CHALLENGES WITH U.S.

EDUCATION THAT WE NEED TO BE WORKING ON.

>> Jeff: ALL RIGHT.

LET'S FOCUS ON THE PANDEMIC FOR A MINUTE.

AND YOU TALKED ABOUT THE RECOVERY BEING U SHAPED.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

>> SO BY U SHAPED, I MEAN, THAT ACHIEVEMENT ROSE FOR TWO GROUPS OF DISTRICTS.

THE HIGHEST INCOME DISTRICTS WHICH HAD LOTS OF FINANCIAL AND SOCIAL CAPITAL TO HELP THEM RECOVER.

BUT THEN THE LOWEST INCOME DISTRICTS, TOO.

WHICH RECEIVED A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF FEDERAL PANDEMIC RELIEF.

IT WAS THE DISTRICTS IN-BETWEEN THAT WERE LIKE 30-70% FREE OR REDUCED PRICE LUNCH THAT HAVE SEEN THE LEAST RECOVERY ON AVERAGE.

AND SO THAT'S BECAUSE, ACTUALLY, THEY DIDN'T RECEIVE MUCH FEDERAL MONEY.

THE FEDERAL MONEY WAS HEAVILY TARGETED TO THE HIGHEST POVERTY DISTRICTS.

AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE THEIR OWN DOLLARS FROM TO PAY FOR THE RECOVERY.

SO WE JUST URGE STATES TO BE AS THEY ALLOCATE THEIR SCHOOL IMPROVEMENT DOLLARS TO FOCUS ON THOSE DISTRICTS IN-BETWEEN THAT MAYBE STILL ARE FAR BEHIND WHERE THEY WERE IN 2019.

>> Jeff: IS THAT EVIDENCE OF A FORGOTTEN MIDDLE IN EDUCATION THAT WHETHER IT'S HIGH PERFORMING KIDS GETTING SPECIAL ATTENTION OR EXTRA RESOURCES FOR KIDS WHO ARE STRUGGLING, THE KIDS IN THE MIDDLE DON'T GET AS MUCH ATTENTION?

>> WELL, IN THIS CASE, IT HAD TO DO WITH WHEN CONGRESS DECIDED HOW THEY WERE GOING TO DISTRIBUTE THE $190 BILLION IN FEDERAL AID TO SCHOOLS.

THEY SAID WELL, GOSH, WHAT FORMULA CAN WE USE FOR DISTRIBUTING THAT AND THE ONE AVAILABLE WAS TITLE ONE WHICH IS A PROGRAM THAT HAS REALLY FOCUSED AT THE HIGHEST POVERTY SCHOOLS.

BUT IT'S LEAVING THOSE MODERATE INCOME DISTRICTS AND THE HIGH INCOME DISTRICTS OUT.

>> Jeff: DO YOU FEEL LIKE THE MONEY THAT WAS SPENT WAS EFFECTIVE?

WERE THERE CERTAIN STRATEGIES SAY, TUTORING THAT CLEARLY WORKED?

>> SO, JEFF, SO WE'VE SPENT MUCH OF THE LAST THREE YEARS OR SO TRYING TO MEASURE THE EFFICACY OF THE DIFFERENT PROGRAMS STATES AND DISTRICTS WERE IMPLEMENTING.

AND THERE WERE CLEARLY SOME THINGS THAT WORKED, ALTHOUGH NOT AS WELL AS THE PREPANDEMIC RESEARCH SUGGESTED THEY WOULD WORK.

TUTORING, HAD AN EFFECT.

SUMMER LEARNING PROGRAMS HAD AN EFFECT.

BUT WHEN DISTRICTS WERE SPENDING THE MONEY, THEY SPENT RELATIVELY LITTLE OF IT ON THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO THEY SPENT A LOT OF MONEY ON SALARY INCREASES AND INCREASING STAFF IN SCHOOLS.

RATHER THAN ON PROVIDING STUDENTS WITH EXTRA INSTRUCTIONAL TIME.

SO THE DOLLARS HAD AN EFFECT.

LIKE SO WE SEE THAT THE DOLLARS HAD ABOUT THE SAME EFFECT WE WOULD HAVE EXPECTED FROM A GENERAL REVENUE INCREASE.

BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT SORT OF WAS LIKE WAS A GENERAL REVENUE INCREASE RATHER THAN A TARGETED FOCUS ON ACADEMIC RECOVERY.

DISTRICTS ONLY HAD TO SPEND 20% OF THE FEDERAL RELIEF ON ACADEMIC RECOVERY.

SO THOSE DOLLARS DID SEEM TO HAVE AN EFFECT.

NOT ALL OF THE DOLLARS WERE SPENT THERE.

>> Jeff: WAS REMOTE LEARNING A LOSER?

AND WAS IT A LOSER FOR EVERYBODY?

>> THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT REMOTE LEARNING WAS A LOSER.

NO QUESTION AT ALL.

AND THOUGH WHAT WAS -- WHAT WE LEARN SECOND THAT THE COSTS WERE PARTICULARLY LARGE IN HIGH POVERTY DISTRICTS.

SO POOREST MAN USED TO SAY THAT SCHOOLS WERE THE BALANCE WHEEL OF THE SOCIAL MACHINERY AND WE SORT OF SAW THAT IN ACTION THAT ONCE SCHOOLS CLOSED DOWN THE FOLKS THAT LOST THE MOST GROUND WERE THE HIGHEST POVERTY COMMUNITIES BECAUSE THE ACCESS TO RESOURCES OUTSIDE OF SCHOOLS WAS THAT MUCH WEAKER.

AND THAT JUST MEANS THAT THE HIGH POVERTY DISTRICTS THAT STAYED CLOSED FOR A LONGTIME DURING THE PANDEMIC, JUST HAVE A LOT MORE GROUND TO MAKEUP.

>> Jeff: AND I GUESS, THAT WOULD CORRELATE WITH THE RACIAL PERSISTENT RACIAL PERFORMANCE GAPS.

HIGH MINORITY POPULATION IN DISTRICTS WITH FINANCIAL CHALLENGES?

>> SO, JEFF, THAT IS WHAT IS SO FRUSTRATING ABOUT THIS MOMENT.

IS THAT WE WERE ACTUALLY MAKING PROGRESS BETWEEN 1990 AND 2013.

THAT PEOPLE MANY OF YOUR LISTENERS ARE PROBABLY USED TO THINKING OF K-12 AS OH, IT'S A PERENNIAL QUAGMIRE AND IT'S NOT TRUE.

THE AVERAGE STUDENT IN THE U.S.

IMPROVED BY MORE THAN TWO GREAT EQUIVALENTS IN MATH IN FOURTH GRADE MATH AND 8TH GRADE MATH.

THEY HAD MATH SKILLS EQUIVALENT TO THE 6-AND-A-HALF GRADERS IN 1990.

SO THERE'S BEEN PROGRESS.

AND DURING THAT PERIOD RACIAL GAPS WERE NARROWING.

THEY WERE NARROWING.

BUT IT'S BEEN IN THE LAST SINCE 2013, THAT THAT PROGRESS THAT FIRST PLATEAUED AND BEGAN DECLINING.

WE THINK IT HAS TO DO WITH TWO THINGS HAPPENED AROUND THE SAME TIME.

ONE WAS WE LET UP ON TEST-BASED ACCOUNTABILITY.

WHERE AND A SECOND WAS THERE WAS A BIG INCREASE IN STUDENT SOCIAL MEDIA USE WHICH WE THINK PARTICULARLY AFFECTED READING SCORES.

AND SO, THE TEST BASE ACCOUNTABILITY WAS LIKE WE HAD A SMOKE ALARM SYSTEM THAT WAS SETUP TO WARN US ABOUT DECLINES IN ACHIEVEMENT AND WE TURNED IT OFF.

JUST ABOUT THE SAME TIME THAT THE PANDEMIC -- THAT THE SOCIAL MEDIA AND THEN THE PANDEMIC HIT.

SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE A DECADE INTO THIS WHAT WE'RE CALLING A LEARNING RECESSION, AND YET, WE'RE JUST NOW LIKE SIGNING THE ALARM THAT STUDENTS ARE LOSING GROUND AND WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING.

>> Jeff: OKAY TO PICK UP ON THAT, YOU ARE THINKING THERE IS A LEARNING RECESSION BUT IT GOES BACK A DECADE OR MORE.

AND WITHIN THAT RECESSION YOU ARE AN ECONOMIST BY TRAINING, WITHIN THAT RECESSION THERE WAS A DEPRESSION THAT HAPPENED DURING THE PANDEMIC AND THE KIDS ARE NOT BACK TO WHERE THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN AND WE'RE NOT SURE WHETHER TO BLAME THE PANDEMIC OR WHAT YOU SEE AS A LACK OF COMMITMENT TO TESTING A DECADE AGO?

>> YES.

SO THAT'S WHY I REFERRED TO IT AS THE MUDSLIDE THAT FOLLOWED SEVEN YEARS OF EROSION.

AND THE LOSSES HAVE CONTINUED IN READING ACTUALLY READING SCORES DECLINED FURTHER BETWEEN 22 AND 24.

SO AFTER THE PANDEMIC WAS WELL OVER, READING ACHIEVEMENT CONTINUED TO DECLINE.

AND IT'S ONLY STARTED TO -- WE SEE THE FIRST SIGN OF A TURNAROUND BETWEEN 24 AND 25 IN READING.

BUT THAT'S FOLLOWING YEARS.

>> Jeff: BEFORE WE GO, I'M SURE YOU CANNOT GET THROUGH A DAY WITHOUT BEING ASKED ABOUT ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE AND WHAT IT'S GOING TO MEAN.

SO WHAT IS IT ALL GOING TO MEAN?

A PLUS OR NEGATIVE FOR THE PROCESS OF EDUCATING YOUNG PEOPLE SO THEY GRADUATE HIGH SCHOOL WITH GOOD READING SKILLS AND GOOD MATH SKILLS?

>> SO, JEFF, THERE WILL BE A.I.

BASED TOOLS THAT WILL HELP STUDENTS LEARN.

AND THERE WILL BE A.I.

BASED DOWN.

AND THAT WHAT STATES AND SCHOOL DISTRICTS OUGHT TO BE DOING AND PARENTS OUGHT TO BE ASKING THEIR SCHOOL DISTRICTS IF THEY ARE DOING THIS, OUGHT TO BE TRACKING STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT GAINS FOR THOSE STUDENTS USING THESE TOOLS.

AND WE OUGHT TO BE STAYING ON TOP OF THIS AND MAKING SURE ONLY THE TOOLS WHERE WE HAVE EVIDENCE THAT IT'S IMPROVING STUDENTS' LEARNING THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT STAY IN CLASSROOMS AND IF THERE'S EVIDENCE THAT STUDENTS ALOSING GROUND WHEN THEY ARE USING THESE TOOLS WE SHOULD STOP.

I DON'T THINK WE NEED LIKE A BLANKET POLICY TAKE ALL THE SCREENS OUT OF THE SCHOOLS THAT WILL STIFLE INNOVATION AND SOME WILL BE THROWING THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATH WATER.

INSTEAD, WE OUGHT TO BE SAYING OKAY, WHO IS TRACKING WHETHER OUR STUDENTS ARE BENEFITING FROM THIS SOFTWARE?

BECAUSE IF SOMEBODY IN NOBODY IS TRACKING IT, BAD STUFF IS GOING TO SPREAD.

SO WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE SPREAD ONLY THE GOOD STUFF.

>> Jeff: OUR THANKS TO PROFESSOR THOMAS KANE OF HARVARD UNIVERSITY AND THAT IS "STATE CIRCLE" FOR THIS WEEK.

JOIN US EVERY WEEK AT THIS TIME FOR THE LATEST ON MARYLAND'S POLITICAL STAGE.

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FOR ALL OF US AT MPT THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

WE'LL SEE YOU BACK HERE MONDAY.

[♪♪]