-Doctor V -!is all I have ever known you by.

-I love that -that's kind of all you've -introduced yourself as to me.

-And you've stuck.

-You've stuck with it.

-So, what do you prefer to be -called?

-Doctor?

Yes.

-!First name doctor, last name V -isn't getting any arguments -for me -about what -she wants to be called.

-I mean, shit, she's -more than earned the title.

-I mean, -there's not that many of us.

-!There's not many women of color -who are non-medical doctors.

-!There's not many women of color -who are medical doctors.

-And I always say, if you know -that there's only 4.4% of us, -!if you know other Black doctors, -if you know how hard it is -to get to the level that I've -!gotten, if you know it, it's V. -If you don't, it's doctor V. -Doctor V holds -four degrees and a PhD, -and these days she spends her -!time in the corporate tech world -working to support people -from marginalized communities -!and help them obtain leadership -roles in the world of tech.

-She's also an author, -!a public speaker, and a mother.

-!So if you think this is a story -about a boss Black woman -!who is changing the tech world -!for Black women, one book, one -public speaking event, -one podcast at a time, -you'd be right.

-But what you might not know -is that beyond these -credentials, Dr. V is a felon -and a former stripper.

-In April of 2002, -she was charged with theft -and eventually -!went to prison for eight months.

-And that journey -led her to a life of hardship -and consequences that -still follow her today.

-But she owns her past.

-She embraces it -and she's even figured out -how to use it -as not only a springboard -toward a better life, but -a business model to land her -where she is -now helping other people -do the same.

-If you want -someone that is an incredible -salesperson, hire -a former stripper.

-She knows how to negotiate.

-!She knows how to sell into her, -total addressable market.

-She knows how to prospect.

-!She knows how to do discovery.

-!She knows how to close the sale.

-You heard?

-From Vermont Public, -this is Homegoings.

-I'm Myra Flynn.

-Today on the show, -a conversation with Dr. V., -former stripper, -convicted felon, -doctor, who doesn't hide -where she's come from.

-In fact, -she looks at some of the -!mistakes she's made in her past -as opportunities.

-!Together, we sit down and unpack -the joys and challenges -she's faced over the years, -venturing from a dancer -to detainee to doctor -in a seven year -span, and how, for her, -transparency about all of it -is a non-negotiable.

-We're a proud member of the -NPR network.

-Welcome home.

-What's the V stand for?

-My name is Vrnda.

-Brenda?

-Yes, it's a Hindu name, Wow.

-Doctor V, -what makes you a doctor?

-All the education I have, -my specialty area -is organizational leadership.

-My dissertation was on -the social support systems -that allow women in tech -to obtain and retain -senior leadership positions, -!and it was intentionally women -and not women of color, -or specifically Black women, -because it is a -a joint challenge.

-And the tech space is -!extremely white male dominated.

-Yeah.

-I, that is like Greek to me.

-So what do you do?

-But the Greek's had fun.

-!And also part of what makes you -so incredibly -interesting to me, -I mean, you just you, -you an interesting person.

-I mean, okay, let's start -from what I -perceive as the beginning of -kind of -the change moment to moment -that your life would become, -you know, the rapid change -that it would become.

-And, and catapult you -to where you are now.

-You were 28 years old.

-Yeah.

-And I think -a mom at this age?

-A mom of two.

-So let's start there.

-Were you alone?

-Were you partnered?

-What was going on?

Oh, gosh.

-!I mean, I like how Miley Cyrus -!says that I was young, not wild.

-But I was -I think -in the way -!a lot of younger women can be.

-I had my children, -I was lonely, -I was wanting love, -I was wanting perfection.

-I was wanting success, and -I wanted to give my children -what I didn't have.

-And I say this carefully -!because the choices that I made -were choices I made.

-Right.

-And it's not because of them -that I made these choices.

-!I made a lot of selfish choices.

-But I was working at a -at a, at a large company, -and I was -an executive assistant.

-Okay.

-And at that age I was -wearing expensive suits.

-They cost $50 which was like -a whole paycheck.

-Yeah, -that was expensive back then.

-Yes, yes.

-Express was a certain level -of of income for young folks.

-Right?

I remember that store.

-That's right and I can still -!remember this light blue suit, -!like, rayon, like nobody should -be wearing this suit.

-I feel like I know -this suit myself.

-Yeah.

-And I would go to work -every single day.

-And I worked in procurement.

-And there came a time when, -you know, -I actually got a rubber stamp -!for expense report processing.

-Oh, gosh.

-Like like physical signature?

-Okay.

-For what do you do -when you get a rubber stamp.

-You stamp things.

-So for expense report -processing.

-Yeah.

-And in lay terms, -!you were the person who approved -!when people were spending money.

-Yes.

Okay.

Got it.

-Or when people were saying -they were spending money -and not.

Got it.

-!And so as I went about my job, -I was the executive assistant -to the vice -president of procurment.

-I started -!really using the rubber stamp.

-And as I found out -that some people were using -or potentially, allegedly, -it has not been proven but, -!submitting expense reports that, -maybe weren't true.

-Instead -of being a whistleblower, -I became complicit.

-Whoa.

Back up.

-!I think maybe we call this show, -what happened next?

So.

-Okay, so.

So.

-Okay, so people were saying -that they were spending money -when they weren't, things -like that.

-So, like, for instance, -I'm like, -I bought a car, -but I didn't really.

-I just pocketed the money -kind of thing.

-I will say that's what I did.

-Okay.

-I will say that's what I did.

-And I will say that -if I noticed -!that anyone else was doing that, -I certainly didn't say -anything about it.

-Did you all have -an understanding -!between one another at work that -this was like -!something you were complicit in, -or did you just stamp -and move on?

-I stamped and moved on.

-I don't think in that power -dynamic -I would describe anything -as an understanding.

-Yeah, an executive assistant.

-!I had two children and it was my -first corporate job.

-Yeah.

So -I mean, I think -the question a lot of people -might be thinking right -now is like -!morally, what made you override, -like your, your good sense -!here, right in this situation?

-Like, why did you do it?

-I think morally for me, -my morals -revolved around -what would allow me -to make the best life -for my children.

-In this moment, -not consequences.

Not.

-!You know, I was on food stamps -when I had my son.

-I had -been, at that point -divorced from my Daughter's -father.

-He was my husband.

-I looked at my morality -and my decisions -for what would serve me -best in this moment.

-Probably -with a strong dose of ego -!that made it think that nothing -could touch me -and that I had to fight in -and claw for whatever I had.

-You know, looking back, -!well, I could have been really -set up to do great things.

-I could have moved from, -you know, the administrative -assistant pool into the -the ops pool.

-I could have done -!a lot of things, but I did it.

-!And even at that time I remember -thinking -!was only one other Black person -in this whole department.

Why -why are there more people.

-It's like Houston Texas -like come on.

-!So you were already distrustful -!of the environment you were in.

-So there was -kind of a sense of like, -!well y'all deserve what you get -anyway.

-A little bit.

-Yeah.

I'm hearing -that doesn't make it right.

-But it also makes it -true for me.

Yeah.

-And you know, -a lot of people.

-Right.

-So how did you get caught?

-So my boss went out of town -for some reason.

-And when he came back, -I said to him, -!you know, while you were gone, -things got really rough.

-I even looked at other jobs.

-And I guess them's -fightin words for your boss.

-Yeah.

No, -I mean, you were valued.

-Probably.

Yeah.

-I didn't know that.

-That was not something -you said to your boss.

-It was true.

-So I thought you said it.

-I love that like it's, -You uphold truth -to such a high standard -that, like, -you just are going to say it -no matter what.

-Okay, so.

-So he, no morals, -all truth.

-All truth, no morals.

-You know, -there is a standard there.

-There is a standard there.

-Yeah.

-But yeah I said that to him -and I -well I remember very clearly -the look -that came across his face -and it wasn't one of joy.

-To say the least.

-Yeah.

-And then I remember H.R., -The HR representative -coming over to the thing, -and I could see -because we had like, -this camera and I had to buzz -people in -and I remember thinking -that was weird.

-!And then I remember the next day -being called in -and terminated.

-Whoa.

Yeah, yeah.

-When I think back, -suspect, totally suspect.

-But I didn't have a chance to -!button up those expense reports.

-So it actually wasn't -until after I left, -charges were filed, and they -So they found this later.

-They found -they went through the expense -reports and found these.

-Okay, so what happened next?

-I got a call from a police -detective -!that said, do you want to talk?

-And I said, talk about what?

-And he said, -I think you know what, -I want to talk to you about.

-!And I said, no, I don't click.

-And I put my.

But you did.

-Oh, yeah.

-You knew they were.

Come in.

-It was coming for you.

-Yeah.

-Yeah.

-So I, -!I put my kids at the babysitter.

-While I was trying to decide -what to do because I -didn't have another job yet -!and I was trying to figure out -how to get money -for an attorney, because I -knew I needed that.

-Yeah.

And -simultaneously, -another event happened.

-I was dating my son's -father at the time, -and with the expense -report, money, like -I wasn't investing in college -for my kids.

-I can't be that honorable, -right?

-Right?

Right.

-But I was -!definitely taking a lot of trips -back and forth -to Hawaii, -where he was stationed.

-!And, on the last trip that I had -there.

-And I had gone -like three times back to back -!when I landed, I had a voicemail -the call that I heard -when I got off the plane was -him in a strip -club with a butt dial -and a voice -!recording of the large majority -of his visit with a stripper.

-So you.

-Oh, yeah.

-So.

Okay, this is not a -!good time for you in your life.

-It's not a good time.

-Yeah, I heard him say -I just had to come in.

-The lights were calling me.

-That's what -he said to the stripper.

-!I just kind of all the things, -you know, -there's things that get fuzzy -in your mind and details.

-This is so clear.

-And I remember -thinking in that moment, -I need to know -why these -lights were calling him.

-This is a journalism problem -!I think you and I both share of, -just like, instead of, -just being completely, like, -turned off -by the whole situation, -you're kind of turned -!on, like, you're kind of like, -I'd like to go -!see what these lights are about.

-I'm curious.

-You get curious -about the strip club.

-I get curious -about almost everything.

-And I got curious, -but not about him.

-And, like, -do you have a sex addiction -or have you been sleeping -with other women?

-No.

You want to go see -!what it is about the strip club?

-That is so -that is so intriguing.

-Yeah, it's obviously -a me problem.

-I mean, I'm in my 20s, right?

-I don't think we stop that -until one of my 51.

So 48.

-Okay, okay.

-But yeah, I wanted to know -why he couldnt stay away.

-Okay.

So, -!did the cops come in, swoop in -at this time at all?

-Or were they just, like, -laying back?

They never did.

-!They were just laying back and -!kind of just watching you maybe.

-Yeah, -!I don't think that I had fully -comprehended what was about -to happen in my life.

-All I knew is you couldn't -help yourself from coming in.

-!The lights were calling.

What?

-What does that mean?

-What is going.

-!What do they have that I don't?

-How can I aquire it?

-I just needed to know.

-So what happened next?

-I walked into a strip club.

-I picked the one.

-I only knew where one was -because I would pass it -like grocery store, -wherever I was going.

-But I walked in -!and I said I would like to come -in, and they said, well, -you can't come in unless -!you have a man with you, Yeah.

-You can't as a single, -!they don't allow single females -to go into strip clubs.

But -!single females like strippers.

-!So.

But single females are wives -coming in to catch their -husbands and that would be -bad for business.

-I am learning so much.

-Okay, okay.

Got it.

-And so I say, can -I speak to the manager?

Ooh.

-I have a problem -!with your business, sir.

Got it.

-I need to get in, -can you get me in?

-It wasnt even combative.

-!I was curious and I was awake, -it was late at night and -I had a babysitter.

-I was going to see whats -going on.

-Got it.

-The managers name that -night was Tommy.

-He was one of the straight- -shooting managers.

-He didnt take advantage -of anyone, -pretty decent guy.

-And I told him what -happened, I said look, -I heard my boyfriend at a -strip club on a recording, -I don't want to cause any -trouble but I need to know -!what it is that he was seeing.

-I have to know, this is so -painful for me.

-Can I please come in, Ill -sit in the back.

-I wont cause any problems, -I just need to know.

-And he said, yeah.

-Come on.

Nice.

-Yeah.

All right.

-And so at that moment, -!I went in and looked around and -it wasn't what I expected.

-What did you think -it would be like?

-I was really cute then, so I -!thought it was beautiful women.

-Okay.

-I thought it would be like, -perfect bodied women.

-Because at that time I was -like a 36 - 24 - 37.

-I was in incedible shape, the -standard of colonial beauty -for my race, surely these -women must be goddesses.

-I had just left.

-And I realized that -that's not what it was.

-That's -not what it was at all.

Yeah.

-So what did you -what did you see?

-I saw regular looking women, -!and I saw regular looking women -paying attention to men.

-!And what I didn't see and here, -there was no arguing.

-There was no expectations.

-!It was like movies, TV, music, -food and undivided attention.

-That's what I saw.

-What?

-What is the, -I mean, it sounds like -you recognized power.

-Yes.

So what is the power of -of stripping of strip clubs?

-I mean, because this is -!literally like ancient practice.

-Yeah.

-It has been around -a really long time.

-I think it's -been around a long time -because it delivers -what people need.

-And what is it people need?

-!People need to be listened to.

-People need undivided -attention at times.

-!People need to be told their the -!best thing the whole wide world.

-What does that attention -look like?

-Like, -!I think the things I think about -when I think about strip -!clubs is just like lap dances.

-Maybe like the choreographed, -like we're all coming out -as, like firemen -or cheerleaders, you know -Thats not a thing.

-Its not like it is -in the movies.

-!Because the movies make it so.

-But what's, what's that, -what's that secret sauce?

-What's that secret -attention about?

-!I think what makes strip clubs -so interesting -is that you have someone -that is going to talk to you -and listen to you -hang on your every word -like you're the smartest, -most interesting -human being theyve -ever seen -and everything you say -everything, -is brilliant, -thoughtful, -strong and facinating.

-Would you pay for it?

-Take all my money!

-I like that, -that is brilliant for you -to, like, pick that out.

-You could see it.

-Such a powerful tool.

-I could see it.

-I could see very clearly -that it wasn't about sex -as much as it was -about attention and focus -and no judgment.

-And all of these guys -that didn't have words -to talk to women, -including their wives -or girlfriends -or significant others, -suddenly they were being told -they didn't need those words.

-!Because whatever they said were -those words.

-!There wasn't any need to be cute -or clever or intelligent, -and you could just sit there -and say nothing, right?

-And they would just -hang on your silence.

-!It's it's it's, you know, it's -$20 for a three minute song.

-Can you think of -!another industry that has that -same upcharge -for so little effort, -on repeat?

-No.

Three minutes a song, -60 minutes in an hour.

-If you start doing that quick -math, it really adds up.

-And even more if you made -it feel special enough -!and everybody thinks like, oh, -if you go into the champagne -room, -all of this -stuff is happening.

-Sometimes they just want -feel like big men.

-And they just want to have -that table full of women -or just a table for them -with a big bottle of -!something that tastes terrible, -but they want it anyway.

-They just want to truly feel -like they are a king.

-And I -!don't think it makes them bad.

-I think it makes them human.

-Yeah.

You don't judge.

-You don't judge this need.

-Well, gosh.

-I mean, if we start judging -people's needs, -right?

-What makes your need -for validation different -than this person's -need for validation -!in whatever way that shows up?

-But I actually went -and I started as a waitress, -and I learned the system.

-Did you just walk in -and get a job?

-I just walked in, -put on a G-string and hopped -on the stage.

-Did you know how to dance?

-I had so many questions.

-So.

So you started as a -as a waitress, as a server.

-Okay.

-And I was being asked as -!a waitress to give lap dances.

-Oh, so people -were already interested.

-Yeah, but you couldn't, -give dances as a waitress.

-Okay.

-!But I would tip out the manager -really well so I could.

-So instead of charging $20 -for a dance, -I was like, I'm a waitress.

-Actually, our dancers are two -hundred.

-And so they paid 200.

Wow.

-So I was like, dancing.

-!And so after I started getting -asked to do a lot of them, -of course -the other professionals -got upset -because I didn't have to do -!like the stage set or anything.

-And it was like -this forbidden thing.

-!But what I was actually learning -is the fact that I could set -my own prices and my price -floor was mine to set.

-And that I had more power, -authority, priviledge and -autonomy than I had ever -had before in my life.

-!This wasn't rubber stamp days.

-I was not stamping an -expense report.

-Yeah, I was probably part -of someone else's -expense report.

-You are like rockin -it sounds like right now, -!but this undercurrent of what's -happening with the feds, -you know, with the police -is, is still strong, right?

-What happened next?

-Well, it was state, -not federal.

Federal would -would have been nice so -I could do laundry.

-What happened next is -I spent a lot of time -in the pretrial motions, -!so I spent a year on pretrial, -which meant -I had to go downtown weekly -and check in.

-!So even if I had a regular job, -I would never been able -to keep it going down -during business hours -every single week.

-And that was a -like a 45 minute drive.

Wow.

-And my pretrial officer -was like, oh, -!you only had a speeding ticket.

-This will be nothing like -!this is just going to drag on.

-So I originally paid -for an attorney.

-!I gave him a $10,000 retainer, -!which was gone in about a week.

-And but at this point, -you had that money -because of your dancing.

-So you'd figured out -how to protect yourself.

-Yeah, yeah, -!I'm going to get all the money.

-!Money gets people off of crimes -all the time.

Right?

-!But after the $10,000 in, like, -a couple weeks -went through, I mean, -!it was like, less than a month.

-!I couldn't afford that anymore.

-Okay.

And so I ended up -!I mean, just out of curiosity, -what grounds did you have to -plead?

Not guilty?

-Non.

Okay.

-I didn't want to go to jail.

-!I didn't want to go to prison.

-But I just mean, -you're so great at, -like, tapping into the truth.

-I mean, you know that you are -guilty, so I just wonder.

-So guilty.

-I wonder, like, -you know, that your money -is just going to be spent -needlessly.

-Or did you guys have a plan?

-Did you have a plan to lie?

-I didn't have a plan, -I was like 28 years -and stripping.

-I had no plan but -I thought that I could I, -I truly thought that -if you were wealthy, -!you didn't go to jail.

Oh, okay.

-I didn't know how.

-You just threw money at it.

-Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

-So when I couldn't pay -that attorney anymore, -you were like, -there goes that plan.

-!He told the court that I had not -been in contact with him -!and they should revoke my bail, -because I did get charged.

-Oh, gosh.

You got a charge.

-You got a charge?

-I got a case.

Yes.

-And so I, he told the courts -that I had been M.I.A.

-and so they revoked the bail.

-!So I was speeding to take my son -to football practice.

-Got it.

Speeding.

-I mean, speeding 67mph.

-In a 35.

Got it.

-Football practice.

-Yeah.

Me over.

-And then there was -a bench warrant.

-So in that moment, -I was like calling -someone to come get my kids.

-I was trying to call -the attorney -that I wasn't paying.

-So a bench warrant, -just some of this language, -!so like they caught you speeding -and then said they went -and scanned your plates -and they were like, -oh, there's like a warrant -out for you?

-Yeah, your going to jail.

-Wow.

And I was like, -my kids are in the car.

-They're like, -oh, you're going to jail.

-Wow.

They're like, -I'll give you one phone call.

-Yeah.

-The cop said that.

-He's like, so you can call -!someone to come get your kids.

-!Of course I called my attorny.

-He's like, didn't -I just say two calls?

-I was like, -!oh, I'll do that right now.

Wow.

-!So then I had to call someone, -to watch them.

-And I went to to jail.

-You know I think you know -I think a lot of Americans -believe that you're innocent -until proven guilty.

-I can tell you you're treated -like you're guilty -until proven innocent.

-You are detained.

-You cannot leave.

-You have not been -convicted of anything, -!but your freedom is taken away.

-!So I'm not big on the innocent -until proven guilty.

-You are guilty until -you prove yourself innocent.

-Especially especially -while Black in America.

-Yes, yes.

-!So?

So was that the entirety of -your stay was two days?

-!No.

Okay, so what happened next?

-I bonded out.

-We finally went to trial.

-I did a trial by judge, -!and this is goung to move quick -!because I dont remember much.

-Okay.

-!I remember that I was sentenced -!to two 10 year stacked sentences -which means I would have had -to do enough time -to get parole for ten years.

-And then -!I would start another ten years.

-Okay.

-!And get paroled for that and go -home, which would have been -a very long time.

-Yeah.

You're.

-!Your kids would have been full -adults.

-They would have.

-And someone said something -!about reading The Admonishments.

-!I do not know what this means.

-I just very much remember it.

-And I remember my, court -!appointed attorney coming over -very fast and saying, -they're going to offer you -three years and it's -going to be consecutive.

-So you'd only have to -do three years, -!and you'd probably be out in 8 -or 9 months.

Okay.

-And you have to take this.

-So three years, which is way -better than what 20?

-Yes okay.

-And so I took that deal.

-So you got to go home -to your babies -who are eight months older.

-Yes.

And how did they react -to you returning?

-Did they?

-Oh, yeah.

-You know, when I went -in, I was in, like, -the best shape of my life.

-I was getting ready to do -Hawaiian tropic.

-My daughter used to sit on -my lap and, -like, straddle -my lap and give me hugs.

-And she tried to do it, -!and her legs wouldn't fit over -!because I was a different size.

-Yeah.

And -they just missed me so much.

-And I wouldn't, I wouldn't, -the reunion -was not joyous for me -because it was a painful -reminder of how much they had -missed me.

-So there's not much -!I regret in life, but I regret -leaving them in my mom's care -and leaving them for that -amount of time.

-The rest of it?

-I'm good with.

-Yeah.

-!What was the movement to go from -stripper and -felon to doctor?

-Well, still former stripper, -still felon, -now doctor, I would say I hid -behind a man for ten years -who I did love for what I -understood of love.

-Because background checks -fall off around ten years.

-And you can't, you know, -you can't rent apartments, -cant rent houses.

-You can't get jobs.

-It's really challenging.

-And as our relationship -was coming to a close, -I was like, I think I'm -going to go back to school.

-I think I could do that.

-And I remember -begging him for the money -to go back to school, -because -I actually didn't understand -that I could have gotten -financial aid.

-I probably could have done it -a different way.

-But then we were married, -so it would have also -been his income.

But could I?

-Anyways, online school is -what was really a big change -!because I had tried to go back -to school once before, -and just going to the campus -and sitting in the classroom -like, wasn't my jam, right?

-But I'm a fast learner -and I'm a very fast reader, -and I'm a very fast typer.

-So if I could go to online -!school, I could get this done.

-!And I signed up just flourished.

-I was like, -oh, I know this, right?

-!You want me to write this paper?

-!You want me to pass this test?

-I can move at my own pace.

-Oh, I can do this.

-And so I just did, -well why not?

-Yeah.

-And then I just did that -for my bachelors.

-I did that for my master's.

-I did that for my MBA.

-And for my Doctorate.

-Wow.

-Let's talk about men.

-How many times -have you been married.

-Let me count.

-I think it's four.

-The reason I'm asking -!that is because I just noticed -when asking you about school, -you said, -as our relationship -was coming to a close, -I told him -!I wanted to go back to school, -and I was asking him -for the money to do that.

-Have you used men to get to -where you want to be in life, -period?

-Just you have I use men?

Yes.

-Yeah.

And any woman -who has gotten married -or stayed married or -dated someone that didn't -bring them joy -more than 90% of -the time has also used men.

-And any man that has stayed -with a woman -or cheated on a woman -because of what she provided -but didn't -leave, has also used women.

-We use each other.

-We use each other.

-Make no mistake about it.

-My hiding behind -a man is no different.

-And you can.

-It's okay if you disagree.

-!Your disagreement doesn't make -it any less true for me.

-Right.

-Is no different -!than a woman who went to college -to find a husband, -found a husband, had babies, -and then stayed married.

-!Right?

Right.

It's all a system.

-Yeah.

-Everybody's trying to gain.

-!You have a ring on your finger -right now, I do.

-Are you married?

-And are you using -your husband?

Yes.

-For what?

Love.

-Oh, stop.

-Fourth time's a charm?

-No, this is the first time -I've entered into a marriage -just because I loved.

-You know, -you had that moment, -you were talking about -!how people just want to be paid -!attention to, like, do you teach -the business of stripping -to women in tech now about -power and how to be powerful?

-Is there an overlap there?

-Well, this is sound -like a shameless plug.

-I actually have -extensive chapters -in my next book -that's coming out -that literally draws -the parallels of the entire -sales process to stripping.

-!If you want, I need to, wheres -the camera?

-This is important.

-If you want -someone that is an incredible -salesperson, hire -a former stripper.

-She knows how to negotiate.

-!She knows how to sell into her, -into her -total addressable market.

-She knows how to prospect.

-!She knows how to do discovery.

-!She knows how to close the sale.

-You heard?

-Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

-!Thanks so much for joining us.

-If you want to continue -!to be a part of the homegoings -family, stay in touch -at homegoings.co -and subscribe -to the homegoings podcast -wherever -you listen.

Take good care.