>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made in 2017 when the independent film industry hit its peak just over 200 indie films found a theatrical release in the year 2017, and the future was looking bright for indie filmmakers.

But streaming had made things more complicated, and instead of seeing more growth, indie theatrical releases began to fall as a result.

Now maybe you're thinking, but I watched some indie films on Netflix, and it's true that Netflix and other services tried for a few years to grab indie films from the festival circuit, but according to Indie Wire that peaked in 2021, viewership for indie films on streaming fell from 30,000,000 in 2020.

Late 2020 into 2021 to 18 million just a few years later.

A year ago, a massive new study took aim at our viewing habits.

The study was called U.S.

Independent Film Audience and Landscape.

The former CEO of the Sundance Institute, Keri Putnam, led the study, and her conclusion was that 77 million Americans would be willing to pay for a streaming service dedicated to showcasing indie films and docs.

77 million, but only about 37 million Americans were currently getting indie films at home.

With that gap of 40 million possible customers, she told IndieWire.

Quote, people are looking for alternatives.

It doesn't mean they're dropping the mainstream ones, but there may be looking for niche choices.

Maybe they're looking for choices that meet their interests in other ways.

And so there's opportunity, end quote, two sort of Sodus natives, Devin Lawrence and Matthew Mourgides, will be presenting their second independent thriller film A week from tomorrow, November 11th at The Little.

We first talked to the pair on Connections nine years ago, when things were admittedly pretty different.

They have a lot of insight into our uniquely American viewing habits.

Devin is a writer on the go on the show Ghost Adventure, and they've got plenty to say about making TV or making streaming content or making films in 2025.

I should say that in our second half hour, we're going to talk about the upcoming Anomaly Film Festival in Rochester.

But first, I am joined by Devin Lawrence, writer and director for The Disinvited, among other titles.

Hey Devin, welcome back to the program.

>> Hey.

Pleasure to be here.

Thank you.

>> And Matthew Mourgides, producer of The Disinvited.

Hey, Matthew, thanks for being with us.

>> Of course.

Thanks for having us.

>> And Scott Pukos is with me, director of communications for the Little Theatre.

Hello, hello, hello.

>> Thanks for having me.

>> A week from tomorrow.

It's always fun for you, I know to have the filmmakers here tell people what's going on.

Tuesday, November 11th.

>> Yeah.

So we are having the filmmakers here.

We're showing their movie The Disinvited followed by a Q&A.

I always think that's such a awesome thing to have the filmmakers in person to talk about their film afterward.

especially when there's local ties.

There's ties here to Rochester.

I think people always love that.

>> Every time I see Scott and they've got a film this time of year, because sometimes we're talking anomaly, sometimes we're talking different showings of the little.

Scott knows how I feel about stabbing.

He knows I'm not a big fan of stabbing in movies, and he came in and he's like, this is more psychological.

Just so you know.

>> There may be some stabbing, but we can't say for certain without spoiling.

>> Gentle stabbing.

>> Gentle.

>> Gentle stabbing.

Thank you guys.

Gentle stabbing and gentle dismembering.

but more psychological for you as a thriller genre.

Is that right, Scott?

>> Yeah.

I thought this was a real a slow burn, that kind of.

You're like, oh, we have this unsettling feeling.

You're like, oh, man, something's something's going to happen.

>> Something is.

>> Bad here.

Something is going up and and it really develops characters more too, I think, which is kind of a thing with independent films where the focus is more on the characters too, and that kind of gives more of a payoff to at the end.

>> So we're going to talk more about the film in a moment here, but let me ask Devin and Matthew about some of the data that I was sharing off the top here would indicate that this is not an easy time for independent filmmakers.

and I know, you know, maybe that there is opportunity out there, but there's so much competition.

And Devin, let me just start with you.

What is it like as a, you know, in the in the indie circuit right now?

>> It's tricky.

all the stats, you know, you put out there and it's a moving target, right?

Every time you think you've cracked the code and you go back out there, you know, the game has changed.

So it's it's very difficult to project, you know, from when we made our first feature and how the state of things and how you built an indie film and took it to market versus now, and you think you have your game plan all set?

And, you know, lo and behold, like things have shifted and they're continually shifting.

So, you know, in one sense, you just always have to keep, you know, following your passion and your your instincts.

But a lot of it was and like you said you're saying our, you know, our film, it was supposed to be a straight horror film.

You know, we came out of our last movie, which was an experimental psychological thriller, and we were like, let's make a horror film, put it in the box, put it right on the shelf where they know it's supposed to go, and, you know, that's a little more easily, you know, sellable.

Marketable.

but the more we developed it, the more.

Yeah, we, you know, you put your more of yourself on the page and it becomes more layered, more interesting, more more depth than it goes in a different place.

and so, you know, from the beginning just, just to say we had an opportunity to get financing from a producer who just churns out horror films, low budget horror films, and it was the most cliche, like hour meeting, you know, he, he we pitched it to him.

He wanted it.

And then we got this meeting with him and he just like, well so what about talking?

Is there a lot of talking?

Because I really don't like talking.

And we just felt so gross and we were like, we're going to make this guy money, we're going to break.

And that's that's the the whole filmmaker thing.

And a lot of just, I mean, even from top down, you know, like these days, you know, I work, you know, on a network show and it's like you, the creatives are doing all the work and it's really hard to keep the drive and the passion when you know, there's just somebody up above you just, you know, feeding the stockholders, you know, just trying to, you know cut off the top and it's and it's hard.

So that's when we decided to, you know, make it ourselves.

You know, it was really Matthew's idea was just like, let's see what we can raise, pull together and make this movie, which then turned it into a genuine indie film.

>> And it's a psychological thriller.

And Matthew, I love this idea of someone telling you guys, you know, guys, look, you're close.

It's a little too smart for me.

I'm going to need less talking and more stabbing.

I mean, what what do you what do you do with that?

Matthew?

>> Well, I, I loved how when he told me it was, he added a little more than that to.

He wanted some leprechauns and.

>> That's.

We love.

He's like, hey, could you put could put a killer tooth fairy?

How can we fit, something in there?

Yeah.

Anyway.

>> And I was like, did this guy read the treatment of our thing?

I was like, there's nothing in this that says leprechauns or no talking.

And like, like you said in the beginning, it is a slow burn.

It's it's a lot of talking, a lot of character development.

In the beginning of the film.

So that's not something that we were like looking for at the time.

And Kevin was about to have a baby and I was just like, Devin, if we're going to do this, it's hell or high water.

We're going to make it happen no matter what.

Let's figure out a number.

Let's get that number.

We have a great connection of family and friends who we've made a bunch of material with for the last 16 years out here, and we took those Connections and we just built an amazing crew.

And everybody who wanted to do it actually, like like they wanted to do it.

There was no one there who was just doing it because they felt like they needed to.

We had a solid team of people who believed in it, and it really was just a true passion project from the very start.

>> Well, and then if you guys end up making a straight horror film, as you said, maybe it's a little easier for audiences to find it.

Maybe there's a challenge to to get seen.

And IndieWire says there is a real discovery problem.

Now, I want to quote from their piece here.

They write in a post, cable cord cutting era.

Consumers have a hard time finding the exact content they want.

They're stuck clicking through numerous apps and endlessly browsing thumbnails.

There's no centralized platform that has all viewing in one place.

End quote.

And you know what?

I emerged from Scott Pukos.

You know what?

I emerged from that piece thinking, we need TV guide back.

That's it.

We just need TV guide and we need everybody to get the same thing every week.

That tells you what you're viewing.

We're so fragmented.

And so for people to know, go ahead, guys.

I want to hear how how do we what do we.

>> Do with this?

Totally.

I totally agree.

And on one hand like you mentioned, there's no centralized source and there's multiple platforms.

And when we were going out for distribution, you know, and we, you know, won best film at this you know, major L.A.

festival.

And then we were out and we were getting offers from distributors.

And, you know, we're looking for the right place.

And so we were shopping around and then it came up like, oh, well, you know, what are they going to really do?

You know, there's a lot of these, these indie distributors that just take anything and just throw it literally tell you that we just throw spaghetti at the wall and sometimes things take off, you know, and that's it.

And so you're, you know, looking for the best opportunity.

And we came across more of those self-distribution platforms.

You know there's a there's a few of them out there, but there's so they're popping up.

There are all these startups that again, like you said, nobody knows to go to them unless they already know about them.

You know?

And it would really help, you know, you've criterion you've there's several other platforms that I can't remember the, the exact names of them, but that we were researching and what their deals were and what it really needs is just like one.

Yeah, you need one lighthouse for especially indie film that's there a centralized place, a hub versus there's a lot of startups that are trying to grab at it right now, and they're already so small to begin with that it's hard to get the notice.

And either way, you know, so I think that and then also what you're saying is, you know, the TV guide, the recommendations is the other shift that's happening right now is when we were doing a road show.

Right.

We're doing a road show with the film where we have a double feature in San Francisco.

Then we're coming to Rochester, then we're going down to Florida, and then we are going back to Los Angeles for our, you know, premiere there, which will trigger.

Then we have a week run in L.A.

and then our digital launch.

And so in we're doing these event screenings to drum up publicity.

That's a big thing for Indies right now that do get the theaters to get some.

It's not just like, you know, putting the movie in the theater.

You want to make it an event, you know?

So we have live music, we have people performing songs from the film and these which we have as a big component of it.

And obviously we're coming and doing the Q&A's to to create the buzz, you know, to get people talking, to get people to understand.

Because I think that's also a big thing about indie films is knowing the story behind the film.

And that's happening.

Then when we go to L.A., the big shift is instead of the traditional red carpet premiere, and this is our distributors idea, right?

Who's dark Dark Star Pictures?

They've been great, really good at like genre like interesting outside the box genre films and genre filmmakers like that.

And so their idea is not to do a traditional red carpet in L.A.

We're actually doing an, event influencer event because influencers are now the new, you know, like critics in a lot of ways of what people are like on the peer level, looking to them for the recommendations.

So instead of, again, the red carpet with celebrities, we are doing an event.

We're actually doing a wedding themed event screening in L.A.

for where we're inviting out the distributor invites all the influencers who have, you know, cinema movie followings to come out and to hopefully post and recommend the film.

>> Wow.

I mean, that is a lot of work to kind of find the audiences, but I mean, that's the reality.

That's why Kerry Putnam, the former CEO of Sundance, said that it was dispiriting to discover the enormous disadvantage facing niche streamers or indie filmmakers against major players.

So that's the that's the reality of the landscape.

Yeah.

Go ahead.

>> And I'd like to say one thing.

This was the first year where original stories beat out superhero movies.

So I do think we are in a good spot right now where we had sinners, we had and now just one battle after another, which I know they're all like bigger companies, like Warner Brothers doing it, but it is the first year where original stories have beat out superhero movies.

So I take hope in that at least.

>> and I think that also, like Matthew was just saying, those those films are horror tinged, except for battle after another, but they are horror tinged movies that are genre bending, which is what we call this the, you genre bending psychological thriller, you know, and, you know, those were, you know, some of our I think there is a shift, like you're saying, you know, the straight horror, people know what it is.

But there is there are big movies breaking through and they're great.

They're like gateway horror films that bring in a broader audience because they are deeper.

You know, weapons is more of a mystery.

You know, it's a character, you know, it's a character driven mystery with horror, just like barbarian was, you know, and like the movie fresh where you're, you're you're blending these rom com horror.

You know, thriller, psychological elements.

And so I think, you know, like you said, there is a very positive because those are indie, more indie tendencies, a positive kind of light in, in path forward right now.

>> Yeah.

And Scott, we've talked in the past about when you look at the next year of films and what's exciting to you, there's always the sequels, there's always the Marvel Universe and the DC universe.

I personally, there's nothing wrong.

I think if you dig that kind of stuff.

Or maybe there's new ways to tell those stories, that's fine.

But I personally take some heart hearing that original stories are kind of making a comeback.

What do you think, Scott?

>> Yeah, you love to see it because that's that's what we want more of.

And I think that just lends itself to more creativity.

That's why, of course, at the little we love indie films, but there's just this more creativity there.

It's not a lot of these big blockbusters.

And and, you know, not anything against them.

As I like this type of movie.

Sure, sure.

And that's all part of the film palette that a viewer gets.

But a lot of it is is same or similar, has a really a look that has lends itself to a lot of like special effects that don't look real great.

Some movies are using A.I., which I don't love at all.

so independent films really you you're more about characters and the writing and the creativity and using practical effects for the look of the film rather than any special effects.

>> Or anything.

Absolutely.

And and frankly, Scott, trusting your audience to be smart enough to kind of bend genres and roll with it and be interested in that and not go, wait a second, I thought I was here for a rom com, not a horror movie.

I thought this was a mystery, but this is I mean, audiences still want smart stuff.

There's we know that in a lot of different ways, in different kind of journalism and content that's out there.

So it's great to see it in films.

so let's, let's listen to a clip, by the way, I just want to say I'm not going to break any news here.

Scott.

Scott would prevent me from getting in trouble with this.

But I will say, what if Scott Pukos WXXI became a regional hub for all the content creators in our in our area?

I mean, like, we're already kind of going in that direction, right?

>> Yeah.

>> We should be.

>> Yeah.

>> Why shouldn't we be?

We should be.

>> We should be.

Yeah.

>> Okay.

I think there's some smart people working on some cool stuff, but I'm not going to break any news.

I'm just saying, if you're a content creator, I think you should be working with WXXI.

Okay, so now let's let's talk about the The Disinvited.

That's the film that that Devin and Matthew are going to be coming to Rochester a week from tomorrow to talk about you just heard them talk about their on a national tour with this film, and it pops into Rochester Tuesday, November 11th at 7 p.m.

at the little I want to listen to a clip here.

And should we do the first clip?

Megan Mack.

All right.

This one's this one.

is a clip called Playing Dress Up.

So Carl, one of the characters and his girlfriend are arguing about Carl's negativity and the movie they recently saw.

I want to listen to the clip, and then we'll talk to the guys about this.

>> I don't see the big deal.

Well, all I said is that Andrew Garfield looks like a child playing dress up, even in Spider-Man, when he's supposed to be dressing up, it feels like he's dressing up as someone playing dress up.

You know, it's like the kid on Halloween who's too old to go trick or treating.

But his parents are health nuts, and all that kid wants is that big kid cat, that king size Kit Kat.

>> But you said that during the movie, during an emotional scene, was it?

You have no emotional intelligence.

>> I just said what I was feeling.

Isn't that the definition of emotional intelligence?

>> No, it's not.

>> How can I get invested in a scene when I can't get past Andrew Garfield trying to act like an adult in order to appreciate the part that he's actually trying to play?

>> You're insane.

>> No, I'm just not a fan.

>> You're never a fan.

You're negative all of the time.

You ruin everything for me.

I was actually looking forward to that movie.

>> Well, at least I'm only negative about things.

Other things?

All you do is criticize me.

And who cares about movies or music that were not involved with that?

That we don't have anything to do with?

I mean, if we're a team, shouldn't we just align against the things that we dislike?

But isn't that the great thing about being a couple?

Shouldn't it be us against the world instead of us against each other?

>> I said stop, literally stop cars.

Are you serious?

I can't take out.

>> Okay, so that that's a little too close for some people listening.

Probably.

That's I mean, that's that's dark, but it's funny.

and I think the idea of actually commenting on a movie while it's happening is sinful and very, very wrong.

And I'm with Carl's girlfriend on this.

Guys, I want the I want you to know that she's right here.

You can't be just.

This isn't Mystery Science Theater.

>> The best part of this movie is that you have audience members who are siding with each character throughout the story.

Nobody is siding with Carl.

Carl side.

>> What?

Andrew Garfield.

but Carl.

>> But Carl's me.

I am Carl.

That's a that's a near verbatim conversation that I had with my wife.

Oh no.

Before my wife.

Oh no, >> She's.

But she's right.

guys, tell us a little bit more about the film here because, as Scott said, his view of it was a slow burn, kind of a psychological thriller.

Tell us more about The Disinvited.

>> so let me I'll throw out the the logline classically is basically when Carl decides to crash a wedding amongst old friends and older flames.

You know what begins as an earnest attempt to reconnect quickly spirals into paranoia, betrayal, and humiliation, turning a hopeful desert weekend into a surreal, violent nightmare where, of course, the wheels inevitably come off.

And so for me, my reference to me, it's always felt like this movie is if David Lynch tried to remake swingers.

>> Wow.

what a. great swingers is one of the great, great scripts ever.

>> That's so.

it's this where I believe that's where it's I think, I hope like this.

The scene you just heard is, you know, where it's very relatable.

It's like when once you watch it, you're like you, you feel on one side or the other and you're in the seat where it's relatable, it's funny, it's strange, it's weird, and it's it's thrilling where we have a lot of these moments where it's whether it's friendship or the relationship of these conversations, and it's a lot about, you know, someone being, you know, feeling left out, feeling rejected.

unrightfully.

So and kind of coming to grips with that.

And just in dealing with it and and so I, I think during that but there's always this something unsettling.

There's always is exactly something off.

And it's slowly it's these paths where this tone of unsettling tone amongst these relatable scenes and conversations it slowly kind of comes to a head.

>> I don't know what a murderous leprechaun would say to Carl's wife.

There, there, Matthew.

I mean, I feel like we're missing it.

>>, right?

I think we we made the right choice here.

>> Yes you did.

Oh my gosh, thank you for that.

I love the idea of David Lynch does swingers.

What an amazing description for a movie.

I mean, like swingers, one of the great all time scripts.

I love scripts, by the way, that are, that are paced in a way that allows you to to not only see character development, but also kind of challenges you as a person.

I mean, like you as a as a I think you can relate to the characters much better that way.

I'm a big fan, so Devin and Matthew cheers on on that scene there.

and let me, let me grab a phone call from Matt.

Different.

Matt, this is Matt in Pittsford who wants to talk about the creative process.

Hey, Matt, go ahead.

>> Hey, it's Matt from Pittsford.

I think me and Matthew went to school together, and I was just wondering, what's up, buddy?

>> What's up.

>> Man how you got so talented and handsome?

>> Oh no.

>> Funny story about Matt is that I met him in fifth grade, and we don't see each other a lot, but we stay, and we stay connected.

We did a film festival in Buffalo, and he showed up to support us, and he just messaged me.

Right now, I didn't even tell him I was going to be on the radio.

I didn't tell anyone.

He, he, he listens to you guys all the time and was just like, I'm hearing you on the radio and I'm calling in.

But he's very supportive friend.

And Matt, thanks so much.

He came to our last film ten years ago.

He came last year to the film festival and yeah, I appreciate your support throughout all these years.

>> The movie.

Yeah, the movie was the movie was great.

it was definitely thrilling.

scary.

Perfect time of year for it to come home to Rochester.

So I look forward to seeing you at the little.

>> Thanks, Matt.

>> Matt.

That's awesome.

And the guys are not even a plant call.

I love that just an old.

>> It's so funny.

>> Guys, before we let you go here, films like The Disinvited, you know, you're going to do everything you can to put it in front of people, but the the point that the former CEO of Sundance was making was that if you're if your name was different, if you had a, you know, a big hit beforehand, everything would be different, that the disadvantage that you face is really, really steep and it's getting steeper.

Is there any way around that in the future?

I mean, you guys are trying to hustle out of it and I respect that, of course.

But is there any way to level the playing field?

Guys?

>> It's tricky, but I mean, I think every time we do this, we do come up with a new blueprint for the next one of the next, you know indie film.

You you can't get away.

You do need a name, right?

Like, there needs to be a name.

And so when you're coming up with your budget, it's like, you gotta put 75% going into production.

You got to save that 25 to get at least that one name that is going to be like, you know, foreign sales can hang its hat on, and it's because it's you just have to do yourself that service and, and really going forward, it's and it's, it sucks, you know, because, you know, we we got the best actors, you know, that we, we could find and you know, a whole other we'll get into it in the Q&A we filmed a day and then we stopped production.

And we until we recast our lead actor for a month.

And we weren't going to go back until we found the perfect actor.

And we did.

And like any crush.

Sam Daly absolutely crushes it.

And like all of our actors are incredible across the board.

However, you know, you have to, you know, as indie film, you got to protect yourself with making sure you have that money bag for at least that one bankable name.

to, again, get you to flow above that with the distributors and with the with film festivals and with platforms.

>> Well, and Scott Pukos, in some ways, that's part of the Little's role, is making sure that your audience knows that.

Yeah, they'll they'll see Oppenheimer and they're going to see Barbie, but they're going to be able to see The Disinvited, and they're going to see a lot of stuff that would be off their radar.

Right?

>> Yeah.

And watching this stuff with a crowd makes it so much better.

That communal experience.

Like, I'm so excited to watch the The Disinvited with the crowd, like having a movie that just building suspense and tension.

it's just a lot better when you're with hundreds of people surrounding you.

>> Devin Lawrence and I would just like to say.

>> Yeah, go ahead.

>> One more thing is that it means a lot for us to come back to Rochester and show this film.

And when we were making this film, the whole, like, Kevin and I would always say, like, we want to go back to the little we want to show this film to Rochester before its release.

We want to to give our hometown a chance to see it before everyone else.

So this isn't just like like I know it's not like, like a normal thing to go to Rochester and show a movie, but this is our most exciting stop for Devin and I during this whole press tour.

It is Rochester and we are most excited about this and we're very proud to show it to our hometown.

>> And over the years we've come back, we've tried to make multiple films.

You know, back in Rochester, we've been to Rochester multiple times over the years for location scouts, casting.

We've done casting calls in Rochester to make to make films.

And, you know, and it's hard because, you know, any any movie is a minor miracle.

And, you know, things spiral out.

But we've been, you know, trying our hardest to to come back and make films in Rochester.

And we love to at least be able to bring them back.

And we have many there.

There are like ten people from Rochester involved in this movie, from musicians to producers to actors.

There are at least at least ten a dozen people from Rochester, Rochester area in this in this film.

>> You guys know better than I do, but you never know what's going to explode.

What lights it and what leads something to go from a winning contests, winning festivals, winning awards to mainstream.

But for now, I hope you enjoy the grind and I hope you enjoy your time back in Rochester next week.

Thank you for making time for our program today, guys.

>> Thank you.

>> So much.

>> Thank you for having us back.

>> Devin Lawrence Matthew Mourgides.

The film is The Disinvited.

You can see it at the little theater a week from tomorrow, Tuesday night, November 11th, 7 p.m., followed by the discussion with the filmmakers.

And you could hear just how much affection they have for their hometown, their home region.

They're coming back.

Scott Pukos.

Thanks.

That was a lot of fun.

>> Yeah, thanks for having me.

>> Have a great fall season at the little theater, the little.org for more information.

We're talking about anomaly on the other side of this break.

>> I'm Evan Dawson Tuesday on the next Connections.

My guest is Brett Schafer, a senior fellow with the American Enterprise Institute.

He's in Rochester as a guest of the local chapter of the World Affairs Council.

And he's talking about artificial intelligence in world security.

We're talking about A.I.

as it relates to the ability of nations to remain at peace or war.

We'll talk about it Tuesday.

>> Support for your public radio station comes from our members.

And from Two Point Capital Management, an investment firm working with clients to create custom portfolios of stocks and bonds.

Two point is dedicated to helping people manage financial risk in good times and bad more.

At two point Capital.com.

>> At NPR in this station, we're not beholden to anybody but you.

Public media is central to our democracy and our editorial integrity is non-negotiable.

This is NPR.

>> And this is WXXI News.

>> And this is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson Meg Murphy is co-founder of the Anomaly Film Festival.

Welcome back here.

>> Hi.

I'm back.

>> Hello.

>> Can't get rid of me.

>> Grab that microphone and get it as close as we can.

We want to hear you loud and clear.

I can't get rid of you.

I don't want to get rid.

>> Of you.

Yeah.

>> There you go.

Magnus Champlin.

Artist and organizer of the Anomaly Film Festival.

Magnus, welcome back to you.

>> Love to be here.

>> I don't ever want to get rid of you either.

>> Oh, my heart doubles.

>> That beard is always great, but.

Whoa.

>> It's getting epic.

>> Now it is.

If you're watching on YouTube, that might be the best beard we've had in 2025.

>> Yes.

>> That could.

>> Be it right there a win.

>> Put that on a business card.

And Adam Lubitow programmer for the Little Theatre and the Anomaly Film Festival.

Hello.

Welcome back here.

>> Always excited to be here.

>> So anomaly starts when Meg Murphy.

>> it starts November 5th.

>> I mean, like, that's like right now.

>> Wednesday.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, it's it's two days away.

>> mm-hmm.

Yeah.

No we're fine.

We're ready.

We're ready.

>> Running Wednesday through Saturday.

Sunday Monday Wednesday through Sunday.

I can't do any math.

>> Thank you guys.

>> Wednesday through Sunday the Anomaly Film Festival.

If you don't know what anomaly is the founder is going to tell you what's anomaly.

>> well, I'm a co-founder.

I'm one of the co-founders.

But what anomaly is, is we are a local genre film festival that shows the best in independent horror, sci fi, fantasy, action.

And my favorite, the indescribable.

>> The indescribable.

What's a film that's in the category of the indescribable?

>> Oh, absolutely.

By design, I had the answer ready because it's one of my favorites.

>> All right, Magnus, how do you describe do people go?

What's anomaly?

>> anomaly is the the films that don't get enough love from everything else.

It's the weird stuff that really deserves film, like screen time.

And I love that we get to, like, curate these amazing films that the community comes out and watches.

It's.

That's just the weird and awesome.

>> Okay, Adam, what's your description?

>> Yeah, we specialize in the strange and fantastical and occasionally spooky films.

we've got a lot of local films, but films from all around the world.

So it's an eclectic collection.

But there is something for everyone in the lineup.

>> It's always a really interesting week, Wednesday to Sunday, and it starts with what?

Here?

what are you kicking off with, guys?

>> we're kicking off our opening night film is called Dust Bunny.

which is the first feature from Bryan Fuller, who people might know.

He's known for television, like Pushing Daisies and the Hannibal TV series, but this is his first feature film.

dark fantasy about a little girl who has a monster under her bed and thinks it's eaten her family and hires a hit man to help her kill the demon that she thinks is under her bed.

>> My concern is you're about to.

We're about to find out that there is actually a demon under her bed.

>> I mean, it wouldn't be an anomaly film if there wasn't at least the chance of something monstrous in there.

But it's a really great film that I think is a lot of fun.

I've been describing it as Roald Dahl meets John Wick, has.

>> An amazing cast.

The cast is phenomenal.

>> Yeah, Mads Mikkelsen and Sigourney Weaver in there.

Yeah, it's it's just a ton of fun and I'm excited for people to see it.

>> You know, Adam, we just got done talking to the team behind the new film The Disinvited, which is showing at the little next Tuesday.

And that's in the site of the psychological horror genre.

But the guys were talking about how hard it is to get an audience.

So can you just can you all describe a little bit?

Anomaly is you know, covers obviously a wide range here, but how much is it mainstream versus I've never heard of this versus I probably haven't heard of this or I should have.

How do you see it.

>> Yeah, most of it is things people haven't heard of yet, especially since we're showing films that are still kind of on the festival circuit.

which means they haven't usually gotten distribution yet.

and so they don't really have, like, the marketing push of, like a big studio film behind them.

And so films play the festivals to build up that buzz and to get people aware.

So we're right at the, the very beginning of the on the ground floor with a lot of these films.

Dust Bunny is the biggest film we've ever shown at the festival.

That is one that does has distribution and is coming out in a month or two.

but the rest of them are independent and yeah, still figuring out their theatrical plans.

So it's.

Yeah, this is seeing films early before most people are aware of them.

>> Meg Murphy does it feel like a, like a secret handshake, like you're in with the in crowd because you get a chance to see these films here?

>> I would think more is like, you know, it's this, like, oh, my God, we all love films and we're our audience and also are the type of folk who want to be like, oh, my God, I saw this amazing thing.

And then you tell others, like, we like to be a connector, right?

So it's more of like, hey, do you like that idea of like, hey, I saw this ahead of time.

I saw this before you did.

But also you should see this.

It's part of the flow, you know, like, hey, we showed Skidamarink.

No one knew what Skidamarink was, and now you can say you saw it first and got to tell people about it.

Yeah.

That's it's a joy when you love films and you love people watching films.

>> Magnus, do you want to add to that?

>> Oh, my God, if you're one of those people that after a movie, you go out and talk for 30 minutes in the parking lot?

This is the this is the crowd.

We are so excited.

We have a lounge.

It should be.

every movie.

Yeah, exactly.

So we have a lounge at the little of the.

We sit down and we have a big whiteboard, ask questions on it.

This is the thing where movie lovers come to talk and bring more friends every year.

This is the one where you bond over.

You get to talk about some unique films that really get a chance to be shown on a big screen, versus your phone or your laptop or something else.

This is where you come to have a conversation about what do you think about X, Y, or Z, especially this lineup.

There's some great films this year, so.

>> I mean, not every film Congo?

Probably not.

I'm trying to think of what the.

>> Worst.

Amy.

Good gorilla.

That's a.

>> Great thing.

Oh yeah.

I could talk about Congo for different reasons.

>> It might be the worst movie I've ever seen.

Come on.

Are we going to argue about this?

>> Oh, no.

No, I both agree that it is a bad film.

But also, I can talk about it.

Okay.

>> So as bad as it is, you can still talk about.

Oh yeah, I was like, that is the worst set of costumes.

Like, I can't even believe.

But then if you go back and read Michael Crichton, you're like, oh, I get it.

He wasn't that good of a writer.

So I mean, it's a complicated thing.

>> Hot.

>> Yeah, yeah.

I mean, look, the late Michael Crichton, he's not here to defend himself.

Let's try to be kind here.

By the way, I want to tell all of you something.

I was thinking of you on Halloween evening when I was with a group of people, and there was like, well, what should we watch?

Should we watch clue?

Greatest movie of all time.

I do love a good option for Halloween.

Or should we watch a movie called Terrifier three?

>> Oh no.

Oh no.

>> Oh no.

And did they make you watch Terrifier three?

>> And I want you to know I don't like stabbing.

Okay?

So I'm like.

And so I asked somebody I asked somebody what is it bad like in the gore?

And they're like, no, it's not.

>> So what?

>> So I.

>> Googled it.

Oh no.

>> Guys, here's what I found out when I googled it in in France after people vomited in theaters, they banned it for anyone under 19.

And there's a warning.

>> Yeah.

It's important.

>> Throwing series are intense.

Yeah, yeah.

>> Who are these.

>> People trying to get you to watch?

>> Terrifying.

Somebody with.

>> A really good sense of humor.

>> Who wanted to trick me.

Oh my God, so I didn't.

>> Watch it.

I want you to know I didn't watch it, but I feel like I wouldn't have lasted three minutes.

>> Given what I know.

>> I'm not a huge I'm not a Terrifier guy, like, but I love a good film.

But yeah, your friends were being kind of mean to.

>> You.

That's the.

>> Most extreme of extremes in many ways.

Yeah.

>> Yeah, that's a stabby stabby one.

>> Yeah.

>> And so I looked up $2 million budget, $93 million worldwide gross.

And I'm like, this is what people love.

People love the really gross, sappy stuff, but they also love everything in between.

They love the smart stuff, the psychological.

So we talked about opening night with anomaly, but you guys want to take us through the schedule here and hit some play some of the hits here.

>> Oh yeah.

Adam oh well, you're.

>> The programmer.

So you.

>> Know.

>> You're all programing.

>> I'm gonna jump around.

I'm not going to go linearly.

Okay?

But film that I'm really excited about is one called I am Frank, which is the first stop motion animated film fully produced in Mexico.

it's a fantasy about creativity and ghosts and the nightmares that bring some joy to your life, I think, and make life worth living.

But it's just an incredible work of art.

Like the amount of craft.

I mean, any stop motion film is just mind boggling to me that they get created.

But this is just the imagination on screen in every frame of this is just truly stunning.

If you like Guillermo del Toro, it's very much got that vibe.

And he's been a big supporter of this film.

It has been kind of pushing it.

and it's just it's amazing.

>> That one's also fun because the head of it is Melvin the Devourer, a local thing that was literally filmed in this building right here.

So if you come in this, in this, in this WXXI, in this building right here, part of Melvin Devour, which opens for that one, was filmed here.

So a local filmmaker and people that were actually in it was walking around saying hi today.

So awesome.

Yeah.

>> I love hearing that story.

>> Literally in this building, were walking around with puppets and big giant ten foot tall trolls and stuff.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Anything you want to add on this film here, Meg?

>> Oh, it's just it's gorgeous.

Like this.

Simply it's gorgeous.

And it is one of our slightly safer films.

We can't guarantee complete safety, but, you know, it is.

>> Define safety.

>> Yeah, that's the thing.

probably no stabbing.

>> Okay.

Yeah.

So, like, the opposite of the Terrifier films.

>> Oh, yes.

100.

Percent.

>> All everything we are showing comparatively is slightly safer.

>> Okay.

>> Gotcha.

Okay.

All right.

So you're not going to be linear.

Take us through another choice here.

Go ahead.

>> I'll also pick a useful ghost film from Thailand about a man whose recently deceased wife he is surprised to discover has been reincarnated as a vacuum cleaner.

And, yeah, that is the basic premise, but it's it's a ghost story.

It's a romance.

It's got some satire about capitalism in there, and it is the Thailand's official selection for the Oscars this year, which, again, is a bold choice.

>> But I love it.

And it's.

>> An incredible film that, again, is about fully into that indescribable that we show that it's not one thing, but together is just amazing and unlike anything you've seen before.

>> I have to give something away here.

I have to tell you that producer Megan Mack claims that she loves Sundays for cleaning, and I'm like, come on.

That's like, no, it's like my.

So when when Megan Mack heard Adam say that someone gets reincarnated as a vacuum.

>> Cleaner, she.

>> She did this.

She did.

>> The heart sign.

>> Then this film is.

>> For you.

For you?

Oh, perfect.

>> I don't think you want to come back as a vacuum cleaner.

>> Come on.

>> No, but what's odd is this is one of two films we have where a human reincarnates or puts their spirit into an inanimate object, because on Saturday, we're showing by design.

And that's about a middle aged woman, played by Juliette Lewis, who has, like, she doesn't really like her life, but she kind of, like, gets intrigued by this beautiful chair.

So much so that she wills her spirit into the chair.

So now we have two movies.

One, her body who's just going through life and there's no change.

Her friends talk to her the same.

Her mom talks to the same.

You're like, oh, that was her life.

And then this life as a chair that this, guy Artis ends up with and he finds, sees the soul and loves the chair.

And you see her vision as the chair going, this is the life I want.

Because now I am seen and I am.

I am valued as a chair instead of a person.

>> Should be more valued as a chair, that person.

But the person the body is still going through the world.

>> Well, it's just a slumped over body, but it.

>> Has not changed.

>> Lifeless.

But people treat her.

>> The same.

>> Yeah, they just talk to her.

It is like nothing has changed.

>> Oh my.

Wow.

That's.

>> Yeah, it has some things to say which I identify with a lot.

>> About not feeling seen or appreciated.

>> Yeah.

Like there's a certain part of your life where that is like, gosh, what if I was just a really pretty chair?

>> Questions asked by.

>> Anomaly Film Festival.

>> Wow.

Okay and let me grab a phone call because we'll direct this one to Magnus here.

Skye and Irondequoit.

Go ahead.

Skye.

>> Hello.

first time caller, long time listener.

Magnus.

I was going to ask what film you're most looking forward to, but I hear that you all have answered that.

So my question is we're going into our seventh year.

What motivates you to keep doing this with anomaly also?

Hi, everybody.

I love you.

>> All right.

Awesome.

>> Skye.

Okay.

You can hit the.

>> First part.

>> The first part, actually, I'm looking forward to a mother of flies because we have this amazing family called the Addams Family that have been making films that if you do not follow the Addams Family and this adventure of this couple and a kids going world just making films, check it out.

But so that's my favorite one.

the reason I love doing anomaly is, you know, me and community stuff.

This is one of those things that it brings people together and makes positive ripples in the world.

My God having people show up and then bringing friends the next year, the next year, bringing more friends, having people come together.

It has been one of my most rewarding things to see.

Is nerds geeking out of film, and then bringing more people to geek out about it, and it's a bonding agent.

I never realized having this genre film festival being the one where, like, I'll be walking around, I have a hoodie on, and someone will suddenly yell at me.

One of the movies we watched the previous year is being like, oh, my God, like Skidamarink was like, oh, my God, that little telephone, you.

>> Know, like.

>> Yeah, yeah.

So yeah, yeah.

So I'm very excited about the community aspect and how it just pulls the best.

I'm always amazed people show up and how passionate they are to experience togetherness with this and talk about films.

Yeah, that's my thing.

The reason I love it.

>> Here.

>> That is not surprising to me.

Knowing Magnus over the years, I would say community is at the core of so much of what you do as an artist.

and I, I love that that is 100% genuine because.

>> I.

>> Love people.

>> It's great.

>> Because it's hard work.

What you guys are doing here.

and, you know, you could throw the towel in there, Meg, but you're still going here.

So what would you say to Skye?

>> it's just it brings me joy to bring other people's joy.

I love the fact that.

Listen, I love watching films alone.

I'm not knocking.

Like, listening at home alone, watching a film.

But there are something like, magical like, like alchemy of bringing people together in the same space.

And you're watching the same thing, and you're kind of having a similar experience, but you're also having different ones, and then you get to share how you experienced with someone else.

Like it's humans, humans being with humans, watching something humans made, that's that's magic.

>> mm-hmm.

>> Adam I mean, I can only build off of that because.

Yeah.

As, as a programmer, one of my joys is, yeah, finding a film that resonates with me and being like, oh, I just want to share this with people.

And one of my favorite things is during the festival is, you know, I've seen all the films, but still while they're playing, kind of sneaking into the theater or standing in the balcony and just seeing how people are reacting to the movies that we're showing, that just is the greatest feeling in the world.

>> Absolutely.

>> Dallas Dallas wants to know, are any of these movies for kids?

>> We look at Adam Adam.

What do you think?

>> the usually we try to squeeze in a family friendly film.

The I'm Frank Zelda is a family friendly film, but it is in Spanish.

So if you have a kid old enough to read subtitles, then they can handle it.

dust Bunny is probably early teens.

I would say 1213.

Age is appropriate for them, but I think that's that's kind of it this.

>> Year for family friendly stuff.

>> Because.

>> Like last.

>> Year we had flow and stuff.

We had we.

>> Had.

>> Last year we really lucked out with flow Latvian animated film that went on to win the Academy Award for Best Animated Feature.

>> How many total films are in the festival this year?

>> 13 feature films?

>> Yeah.

>> 13 films, 34 shorts.

Your next question?

>> Oh, yeah.

>> Yeah, we have two shorts.

segments this year.

We normally do like one short segment.

This year we're doing two because we have so many amazing shorts in there.

I love the shorts.

If you can make a movie that is just a little flavor of a film in a couple of minutes and hit it, there are some ones this year that have just phenomenal shorts this year, so I'm looking forward to it.

Friday and Saturday we have some.

>> Shorts Friday and Saturday where.

>> the Little Theatre going to be that way.

what Friday's showing is starts at three for the shorts program and Saturdays the strange and spooky on Saturday, shorts are at 11 on that one.

>> Okay.

>> I love the idea of shorts, by the way.

>> Too freaky and funny is on Friday, right?

That's the one.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah, yeah.

Spooky.

And.

Yeah.

Exactly.

>> Alliteration.

>> You love alliteration here too.

So continue on.

>> Now, part of what we talked about in the last half hour, I think, relates to this part of the conversation.

And I want to read an email from Charlie.

what we were talking about was some of the data on American consumer habits, 2017 indie films peaked.

So more than 200 indie films get a theatrical release.

There's obviously a lot more in festivals, and it looks really, really bright.

But then streaming is coming and streaming is coming and streaming erodes some of that.

Now.

There was hope that the netflixes of the world and and their ilk would grab those festival films and show them, and they do to some extent.

But that peaked in 2021.

And so now that's going down.

But when you survey Americans, a lot of people will say, yes, I've got multiple streaming services, but I feel like I can't find anything.

I feel like I'm really struggling.

And I joked last half hour like, well, we need TV guide back.

Like, look, look, the irony.

But we don't have a central hub.

So I want to read Charlie's email and just ask you all if you feel like you have the I mean, you guys are on the inside, you're running a festival, you're probably watching a lot more films than you are showing in the festival.

I assume by a lot.

>> So.

>> So Charlie says, my wife and I are the poster children for the frustration of streaming.

Just last night it took us 20 minutes to find a show.

Our friends told us to check out.

My wife fell asleep before it started.

We are overwhelmed by choices and we often give up.

We went three weeks this summer without turning the TV on.

In independent films, I go way back to the 80s with chocolate, housekeeping, Das Boot, My Life as a dog, The Big Lebowski, Life Is Beautiful and their ilk.

Yes, to a dedicated independent film network and channel.

Charlie says yes.

He wants an independent channel or service dedicated to the kinds of films that you guys do the work on.

So do you feel like that?

I mean, I think you guys are connected because of what you do, but are we more even fragmented in terms of our viewing habits?

Is it hard for us to have that shared experience?

Adam what do you think?

>> I would say, yeah.

I mean, streaming, there's just so much content at this point that there's there's no way to get like that centralized attention on a single thing, which I feel like I feel like streaming services kind of know this because, you know, when Netflix does put a movie out in theaters, like they make a lot of money usually, like right now the littlest showing Frankenstein and the crowds for that have been huge.

And I feel like that's because it's the one theater they have in theaters right now.

People are seeing it, they're interested in it, and then once they see it, they're talking about it and telling their friends, and it builds up that kind of attention.

That is lacking when, you know, there's just a hundred movies that release on various streaming services every week, and the next week another hundred more, and there's no way to to get that, that kind of attention and it to become sort of a cultural touchstone the way so many movies in the past have.

>> Yeah.

What do you think, Magnus?

>> that's I spent a bunch of time trying to find people that have my tastes that are film like critics of sorts on social media, Instagram.

There's plenty of people giving their take on stuff.

So a lot of times I'll spend some time to find a person who has kind of the same flavor as me to help cut my list down a bit.

but that's why hanging out and socializing and watching films with others, I've learned about more movies by listening to the crowd here, or the people come with anomaly.

So I'll be following them and I ask questions of friends now to get my list down, because the list of movies I want to watch are endless.

But and it's tough now, like I said, the social media now we have everyone has a 15 second clip of something in front of you, so it's hard to catch a person to watch a whole thing when you have this conveyor belt tossing stuff at you constantly.

so the world's a little different.

So I spend time listening to people I trust who love music like Adam Adam suggests a movie.

I he's up that list higher.

So there's people that are close friends are also social media folks that I really take some time to follow.

You know, movie reviewers, for lack of a better term.

We don't have them anymore.

So I try to find a trusted voice that I like.

Oh, I do like this person and keep track of it that way.

>> Mm.

Meg, what do you think?

>> I think that's the importance.

I think.

Of course, I'm self-important because I help with the festival, the importance of festivals.

Adam has put together an amazing mixtape, you know, and there's just so much music out there, but your friend would put together like, oh, this is why.

Like and the order and this is a whole experience.

I'm gifting you an experience.

Right.

So I feel like in many ways this is a gift of, listen, we've made the decisions.

We put together something that I think works together.

It flows.

You don't have to worry about deciding.

It's something like anomaly.

We made the decisions for you and I think you'll dig them.

And also, we'd love you for you to come.

We'd love for you to come.

But if you can't take a look at our schedule and pick out a couple things, because we spend a lot of time picking out the things that we think work the best, and we want to share the most.

So it takes a little pressure off.

You don't have to this weekend.

You don't have to worry about it.

We got you.

>> I love the idea of it is the mixtape for the genre film.

for the genre film genre?

Is it genre films?

>> Yeah.

>> Genre.

Genre films.

What genre is it?

Genre?

I get confused about that genre.

You did the very French.

That was very.

>> French, I tried, yeah, it was very good.

Very classy.

>> Side note kids these days will never appreciate how great mixtapes.

>> Could be.

>> You know, there's a lost art.

A lot of lost arts out there down to our last 90s.

So if you just popped in and you go, I've heard of anomaly.

I don't really know what it is.

Where does it happen, Meg?

>> It happens at the little theater and Thursday night at the Dryden.

>> Thursday night at the Dryden.

Otherwise at the little.

It starts on Wednesday, goes to Sunday.

As Magnus mentioned, you've got a couple of opportunities to see shorts.

Otherwise you've got 13 full length films.

and a chance to see the kinds of films that you know, there's going to be some name actors, of course, but a lot of the stuff is going to be new to you, and it's going to be stuff that you go, I'm so glad they grabbed this, because I had no idea this was even out there.

They work very, very hard at that.

What do you want to close with?

What do you want to leave with listeners about?

An anomaly here.

>> See, in movies with people that are new to you is such a magnificent, lovely experience.

It's like sacred.

Enjoy that.

Take that moment, be with people, watch stories.

>> Magnus the Popcorn's great at the little.

Come eat popcorn.

>> With us.

Yeah, well.

>> Trust the fat guy.

Yeah.

Popcorn's great.

The movie is phenomenal.

But yeah, popcorn also.

>> Helps.

>> Popcorn is great.

The popcorn has saved a lot.

Even when on the rare occasions when people don't like a movie at the little, they're like, well, the popcorn was good.

>> Yeah, exactly.

>> The best popcorn in the world.

What do you want to leave with people as they look at the schedule?

We haven't talked about all the films here.

Anything you want to squeeze in in the next 40s?

>> Oh, sure.

I'll fittingly, I'll end with it ends our closing night film.

thriller about a group of teens on a road trip who realize they are on an infinite highway with no exits and no way to get off or stop.

And it it starts off as kind of a horror thriller, but then it it shifts to something else as it goes on.

It's a little existential, and I think a really unique film and I think is just a fantastic way to close out this year's festival.

>> I immediately want to go watch the trailer for that.

>> It doesn't have a trailer, which is.

why we're trying.

>> To tell people about it.

Yeah, that's how new there's a. trailer for this.

Yeah.

>> Also probably no stabbing.

>> Yeah.

We also.

>> Like.

>> To let a filmmakers coming to to this thing.

There's filmmakers.

Yes.

Come.

>> So if you.

>> Want to see the schedule and see not only the films but the filmmakers and Q and A is there, where can people find the schedule?

>> Anomaly Film Festival.

>> Com Anomaly Film Festival full schedule starts on Wednesday.

Have the most fun guys, I really appreciate you coming in here.

Meg Murphy is the co-founder, not just the founder.

>> The co-founder.

>> Thank you.

Meg Magnus Champlin, thanks for coming in and talking to us about this.

Have a great week and Adam Lubitow same.

Enjoy some popcorn.

But it's mandated, right?

>> Yes, absolutely.

>> It's going to be a great week.

Anomaly this week from everyone at Connections.

Thank you for listening.

Thank you for watching.

And thanks for all the great recommendations from listeners on films with No Stabbing.

We will talk to you tomorrow on member supported public media.

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