>> FEMA is not going to hesitate >> FEMA is not going to hesitate at all in this storm.

>> FEMA is not going to hesitate at all in this storm.

We are going to move fast, we at all in this storm.

We are going to move fast, we are going to move quick, and we We are going to move fast, we are going to move quick, and we are going to do whatever it are going to move quick, and we are going to do whatever it takes to help disaster victims.

are going to do whatever it takes to help disaster victims.

>> We will do everything in our takes to help disaster victims.

>> We will do everything in our power to help the people in the >> We will do everything in our power to help the people in the communities affected by this power to help the people in the communities affected by this storm.

communities affected by this storm.

They said everything was storm.

They said everything was under control.

They said everything was under control.

But then came the test.

under control.

But then came the test.

>> We're asking, is anybody out But then came the test.

>> We're asking, is anybody out there listening?

>> We're asking, is anybody out there listening?

Does anybody out there care?

there listening?

Does anybody out there care?

>> Who was in charge of that Does anybody out there care?

>> Who was in charge of that disaster?

>> Who was in charge of that disaster?

Was it Mike Brown, was it disaster?

Was it Mike Brown, was it Michael Chertoff, or was it the Was it Mike Brown, was it Michael Chertoff, or was it the president?

Michael Chertoff, or was it the president?

>> It's too doggoned late.

president?

>> It's too doggoned late.

Now get off your asses and let's >> It's too doggoned late.

Now get off your asses and let's do something, and let's fix the Now get off your asses and let's do something, and let's fix the biggest crisis in the history of do something, and let's fix the biggest crisis in the history of this country.

biggest crisis in the history of this country.

Frontline, this country.

Frontline, correspondent Martin Smith asks Frontline, correspondent Martin Smith asks what went wrong... correspondent Martin Smith asks what went wrong... >> Did you fail?

what went wrong... >> Did you fail?

>> No, I did not fail.

>> Did you fail?

>> No, I did not fail.

I'll make a great confession >> No, I did not fail.

I'll make a great confession here.

I'll make a great confession here.

You know what?

here.

You know what?

FEMA makes mistakes in every You know what?

FEMA makes mistakes in every disaster.

FEMA makes mistakes in every disaster.

>> NARRATOR: ...and whether disaster.

>> NARRATOR: ...and whether America will be prepared next >> NARRATOR: ...and whether America will be prepared next time disaster strikes.

>> Wow.

>> Wow.

Here comes a blast.

>> Wow.

Here comes a blast.

Jeez!

Here comes a blast.

Jeez!

It's getting really bad now.

Jeez!

It's getting really bad now.

We've got ferocious winds here.

It's getting really bad now.

We've got ferocious winds here.

We've got a big wall of water We've got ferocious winds here.

We've got a big wall of water coming right now.

We've got a big wall of water coming right now.

Storm surge.

coming right now.

Storm surge.

Here it comes.

Storm surge.

Here it comes.

It's in the house.

Here it comes.

It's in the house.

It's up to the top.

It's in the house.

It's up to the top.

I never thought I'd die this It's up to the top.

I never thought I'd die this way.

I never thought I'd die this way.

>> NARRATOR: Almost three months way.

>> NARRATOR: Almost three months after Katrina, there are still >> NARRATOR: Almost three months after Katrina, there are still questions.

after Katrina, there are still questions.

Why didn't New Orleans evacuate questions.

Why didn't New Orleans evacuate sooner?

Why didn't New Orleans evacuate sooner?

Why were so many people left sooner?

Why were so many people left behind?

Why were so many people left behind?

>> Okay, I'd better get off the behind?

>> Okay, I'd better get off the air, put this thing in a >> Okay, I'd better get off the air, put this thing in a watertight bag.

air, put this thing in a watertight bag.

Man, look at that stuff.

watertight bag.

Man, look at that stuff.

When's it supposed to stop?

Man, look at that stuff.

When's it supposed to stop?

>> NARRATOR: Where was the When's it supposed to stop?

>> NARRATOR: Where was the National Guard?

>> NARRATOR: Where was the National Guard?

Where was the Army?

National Guard?

Where was the Army?

>> Get out of here, guys.

Where was the Army?

>> Get out of here, guys.

>> NARRATOR: Where was FEMA?

>> Get out of here, guys.

>> NARRATOR: Where was FEMA?

>> I can't believe it.

>> NARRATOR: Where was FEMA?

>> I can't believe it.

>> NARRATOR: There are just as >> I can't believe it.

>> NARRATOR: There are just as many explanations for what went >> NARRATOR: There are just as many explanations for what went wrong.

many explanations for what went wrong.

Local and state officials failed wrong.

Local and state officials failed to plan.

Local and state officials failed to plan.

The U.S. military waited too to plan.

The U.S. military waited too long.

The U.S. military waited too long.

FEMA was poorly led.

long.

FEMA was poorly led.

The government was indifferent FEMA was poorly led.

The government was indifferent to victims who were mostly poor The government was indifferent to victims who were mostly poor and black.

to victims who were mostly poor and black.

>> What's up?

and black.

>> What's up?

>> How are you doing, man?

>> What's up?

>> How are you doing, man?

>> I had to leave out of my >> How are you doing, man?

>> I had to leave out of my house, man.

>> I had to leave out of my house, man.

I don't know whether that water house, man.

I don't know whether that water is coming over that levee or I don't know whether that water is coming over that levee or what.

is coming over that levee or what.

>> The last I heard, it's not.

what.

>> The last I heard, it's not.

>> Huh?

>> The last I heard, it's not.

>> Huh?

>> The storm missed us.

>> Huh?

>> The storm missed us.

>> Think I can get in there to >> The storm missed us.

>> Think I can get in there to get somewhere?

>> Think I can get in there to get somewhere?

>> I got no room.

get somewhere?

>> I got no room.

>> NARRATOR: In the first few >> I got no room.

>> NARRATOR: In the first few hours after Katrina hit, many >> NARRATOR: In the first few hours after Katrina hit, many believed that New Orleans had hours after Katrina hit, many believed that New Orleans had dodged a bullet.

believed that New Orleans had dodged a bullet.

At the headquarters of the dodged a bullet.

At the headquarters of the Louisiana National Guard, At the headquarters of the Louisiana National Guard, located in the Lower Ninth Ward, Louisiana National Guard, located in the Lower Ninth Ward, the soldiers were not yet aware located in the Lower Ninth Ward, the soldiers were not yet aware that the canal levees were the soldiers were not yet aware that the canal levees were giving way.

that the canal levees were giving way.

The Guard's commander was giving way.

The Guard's commander was monitoring the situation from The Guard's commander was monitoring the situation from Baton Rouge.

monitoring the situation from Baton Rouge.

>> I spoke to an airman at Baton Rouge.

>> I spoke to an airman at Jackson barracks, and I asked >> I spoke to an airman at Jackson barracks, and I asked him...

I asked him about the Jackson barracks, and I asked him...

I asked him about the water.

him...

I asked him about the water.

water.

water.

water.

And he told me that it rained water.

And he told me that it rained very little, and it was just... And he told me that it rained very little, and it was just... except for just a few puddles of very little, and it was just... except for just a few puddles of water in the parking lot, there except for just a few puddles of water in the parking lot, there just was no water.

water in the parking lot, there just was no water.

And then he hesitated a minute.

just was no water.

And then he hesitated a minute.

And he said, "Would you hold the And then he hesitated a minute.

And he said, "Would you hold the line a minute?

And he said, "Would you hold the line a minute?

I need to look at something."

line a minute?

I need to look at something."

I need to look at something."

I need to look at something."

I need to look at something."

And he came right back, and he I need to look at something."

And he came right back, and he said, "I don't know why, but And he came right back, and he said, "I don't know why, but there's probably a foot of water said, "I don't know why, but there's probably a foot of water on Claiborne Street."

there's probably a foot of water on Claiborne Street."

And then immediately he said, on Claiborne Street."

And then immediately he said, "Sir, there's two feet of water And then immediately he said, "Sir, there's two feet of water on Claiborne Street."

"Sir, there's two feet of water on Claiborne Street."

Very shortly he said, "Cars are on Claiborne Street."

Very shortly he said, "Cars are beginning to float out of the Very shortly he said, "Cars are beginning to float out of the parking lot.

beginning to float out of the parking lot.

There's a river of water moving parking lot.

There's a river of water moving into this area."

There's a river of water moving into this area."

>> NARRATOR: Trapped inside the into this area."

>> NARRATOR: Trapped inside the headquarters were around 300 >> NARRATOR: Trapped inside the headquarters were around 300 soldiers.

headquarters were around 300 soldiers.

They lost power.

soldiers.

They lost power.

Their backup generators flooded.

They lost power.

Their backup generators flooded.

Their communications center was Their backup generators flooded.

Their communications center was useless.

Their communications center was useless.

They lost 15 high-water trucks useless.

They lost 15 high-water trucks with mobile communications They lost 15 high-water trucks with mobile communications packages.

with mobile communications packages.

The Guard spent most of the next packages.

The Guard spent most of the next 24 hours saving itself.

The Guard spent most of the next 24 hours saving itself.

Across town the police 24 hours saving itself.

Across town the police headquarters was also under Across town the police headquarters was also under water.

headquarters was also under water.

Only three-quarters of the force water.

Only three-quarters of the force showed up for duty.

Only three-quarters of the force showed up for duty.

>> Police operator 16. showed up for duty.

>> Police operator 16.

Okay, ma'am, what is your >> Police operator 16.

Okay, ma'am, what is your location?

Okay, ma'am, what is your location? )

location? )

>> Okay, is he in the attic? )

>> Okay, is he in the attic?

>> NARRATOR: With most of the >> Okay, is he in the attic?

>> NARRATOR: With most of the city's switchboards flooded, >> NARRATOR: With most of the city's switchboards flooded, residents were lucky if they city's switchboards flooded, residents were lucky if they could make a 911 call.

residents were lucky if they could make a 911 call.

>> I got a handicapped girl.

could make a 911 call.

>> I got a handicapped girl.

The water is coming up.

>> I got a handicapped girl.

The water is coming up.

>> You said you are on the roof?

The water is coming up.

>> You said you are on the roof?

>> Lower Ninth Ward was in real >> You said you are on the roof?

>> Lower Ninth Ward was in real bad shape.

>> Lower Ninth Ward was in real bad shape.

The Fifth district was in real bad shape.

The Fifth district was in real bad shape.

The Fifth district was in real bad shape.

At 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning, bad shape.

At 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning, they were still calling for At 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning, they were still calling for help, I mean, and sobbing on the they were still calling for help, I mean, and sobbing on the air, saying, "Please come and help, I mean, and sobbing on the air, saying, "Please come and get me out."

air, saying, "Please come and get me out."

>> Smith: Did you have enough get me out."

>> Smith: Did you have enough boats?

>> Smith: Did you have enough boats?

>> No.

boats?

>> No.

>> No.

>> No.

>> No.

If anything haunts me about this >> No.

If anything haunts me about this whole situation, it's pulling If anything haunts me about this whole situation, it's pulling them back and saying, "Look, whole situation, it's pulling them back and saying, "Look, we've got to go back out at them back and saying, "Look, we've got to go back out at first light."

we've got to go back out at first light."

first light."

first light."

first light."

>> NARRATOR: For many, it was first light."

>> NARRATOR: For many, it was too late.

>> NARRATOR: For many, it was too late.

>> Smith: And the failure of too late.

>> Smith: And the failure of communications systems cost >> Smith: And the failure of communications systems cost lives in those first days.

communications systems cost lives in those first days.

Fair statement?

lives in those first days.

Fair statement?

Fair statement?

Fair statement?

Fair statement?

>> If any lives were lost Fair statement?

>> If any lives were lost because people were late to >> If any lives were lost because people were late to getting there, it's because the because people were late to getting there, it's because the people that couldn't call 911 getting there, it's because the people that couldn't call 911 and tell them where they were.

people that couldn't call 911 and tell them where they were.

and tell them where they were.

and tell them where they were.

and tell them where they were.

That's communications.

and tell them where they were.

That's communications.

They couldn't pick up their cell That's communications.

They couldn't pick up their cell phone.

They couldn't pick up their cell phone.

They couldn't pick up their phone.

They couldn't pick up their house phone and call anybody and They couldn't pick up their house phone and call anybody and say, "I'm trapped in an attic.

house phone and call anybody and say, "I'm trapped in an attic.

Come get me."

say, "I'm trapped in an attic.

Come get me."

Come get me."

Come get me."

Come get me."

>> Smith: Nor could a Swat team Come get me."

>> Smith: Nor could a Swat team that was in a forward position >> Smith: Nor could a Swat team that was in a forward position call for backup.

that was in a forward position call for backup.

>> That's correct.

call for backup.

>> That's correct.

Nor could a soldier that's out >> That's correct.

Nor could a soldier that's out in a boat in some cases call Nor could a soldier that's out in a boat in some cases call back and say, "I've got five in a boat in some cases call back and say, "I've got five people on a roof and my boat can back and say, "I've got five people on a roof and my boat can only handle four."

people on a roof and my boat can only handle four."

That kind of business.

only handle four."

That kind of business.

>> We've got hungry people, That kind of business.

>> We've got hungry people, we've got frustrated people, >> We've got hungry people, we've got frustrated people, we've got angry people.

we've got frustrated people, we've got angry people.

we've got angry people.

we've got angry people.

we've got angry people.

>> There's no food, no water!

we've got angry people.

>> There's no food, no water!

I mean, the bare necessities!

>> There's no food, no water!

I mean, the bare necessities!

>> We need help!

I mean, the bare necessities!

>> We need help!

New Orleans needs assistance.

>> We need help!

New Orleans needs assistance.

>> And we're asking, you know, New Orleans needs assistance.

>> And we're asking, you know, is anybody out there listening?

>> And we're asking, you know, is anybody out there listening?

Is anybody out there watching?

is anybody out there listening?

Is anybody out there watching?

Does anybody out there care?

Is anybody out there watching?

Does anybody out there care?

>> New Orleans is hot.

Does anybody out there care?

>> New Orleans is hot.

We can't take this.

>> New Orleans is hot.

We can't take this.

We've been out here for three We can't take this.

We've been out here for three days.

We've been out here for three days.

And we've been asking for help.

days.

And we've been asking for help.

>> Where the policemen at?

And we've been asking for help.

>> Where the policemen at?

Where the National Guard to >> Where the policemen at?

Where the National Guard to control all of this?

Where the National Guard to control all of this?

control all of this?

control all of this?

control all of this?

>> I'm swimming in it.

control all of this?

>> I'm swimming in it.

People trying to give me their >> I'm swimming in it.

People trying to give me their babies that are sick, and senior People trying to give me their babies that are sick, and senior citizens saying that they, you babies that are sick, and senior citizens saying that they, you know, they couldn't take it citizens saying that they, you know, they couldn't take it anymore.

know, they couldn't take it anymore.

anymore.

anymore.

anymore.

We need help.

anymore.

We need help.

We need troops.

We need help.

We need troops.

We need resources.

We need troops.

We need resources.

We need food.

We need resources.

We need food.

We need water.

We need food.

We need water.

>> We need a ship.

We need water.

>> We need a ship.

>> NARRATOR: But it was the >> We need a ship.

>> NARRATOR: But it was the mayor's responsibility to stock >> NARRATOR: But it was the mayor's responsibility to stock the shelters with enough food mayor's responsibility to stock the shelters with enough food and water and to mobilize city the shelters with enough food and water and to mobilize city and school buses for evacuation.

and water and to mobilize city and school buses for evacuation.

500 were flooded when the levees and school buses for evacuation.

500 were flooded when the levees broke.

500 were flooded when the levees broke.

>> Smith: Did you ever talk broke.

>> Smith: Did you ever talk about having buses on higher >> Smith: Did you ever talk about having buses on higher ground prior to the storm?

about having buses on higher ground prior to the storm?

>> No.

ground prior to the storm?

>> No.

Other than what we normally do, >> No.

Other than what we normally do, is to put our RTA buses, you Other than what we normally do, is to put our RTA buses, you know, at the location that has is to put our RTA buses, you know, at the location that has never flooded.

know, at the location that has never flooded.

>> Smith: But why not move buses never flooded.

>> Smith: But why not move buses to high ground?

>> Smith: But why not move buses to high ground?

>> We did not have the drivers.

to high ground?

>> We did not have the drivers.

We had the buses, but there were >> We did not have the drivers.

We had the buses, but there were no drivers.

We had the buses, but there were no drivers.

We had to scrounge around to no drivers.

We had to scrounge around to find enough buses.

We had to scrounge around to find enough buses.

>> Smith: And you had no find enough buses.

>> Smith: And you had no National Guardsmen to drive the >> Smith: And you had no National Guardsmen to drive the buses.

National Guardsmen to drive the buses.

>> The National Guard was not on buses.

>> The National Guard was not on the ground.

>> The National Guard was not on the ground.

>> Smith: There were National the ground.

>> Smith: There were National Guardsmen at Jackson Barracks.

>> Smith: There were National Guardsmen at Jackson Barracks.

>> At Jackson Barracks?

Guardsmen at Jackson Barracks.

>> At Jackson Barracks?

Jackson Barracks flooded.

>> At Jackson Barracks?

Jackson Barracks flooded.

>> NARRATOR: On day three of the Jackson Barracks flooded.

>> NARRATOR: On day three of the disaster, President Bush flew >> NARRATOR: On day three of the disaster, President Bush flew over the area.

disaster, President Bush flew over the area.

>> The National Guard has nearly over the area.

>> The National Guard has nearly 11,000 Guardsmen on state active >> The National Guard has nearly 11,000 Guardsmen on state active duty to assist governors and 11,000 Guardsmen on state active duty to assist governors and local officials with security duty to assist governors and local officials with security and disaster response efforts.

local officials with security and disaster response efforts.

FEMA's moving supplies and and disaster response efforts.

FEMA's moving supplies and equipment into the hardest hit FEMA's moving supplies and equipment into the hardest hit areas.

equipment into the hardest hit areas.

>> NARRATOR: What the president areas.

>> NARRATOR: What the president couldn't see was what was >> NARRATOR: What the president couldn't see was what was happening on the streets below.

couldn't see was what was happening on the streets below.

>> What did you say to the happening on the streets below.

>> What did you say to the President of the United States >> What did you say to the President of the United States and what did he say to you?

President of the United States and what did he say to you?

>> I basically told him we had and what did he say to you?

>> I basically told him we had an incredible crisis here, and >> I basically told him we had an incredible crisis here, and that his flying over in Air an incredible crisis here, and that his flying over in Air Force One does not do it that his flying over in Air Force One does not do it justice.

Force One does not do it justice.

>> How is a three-week-old justice.

>> How is a three-week-old infant going to be able to >> How is a three-week-old infant going to be able to survive out here with no milk, infant going to be able to survive out here with no milk, no water?

survive out here with no milk, no water?

>> I don't want to die like no water?

>> I don't want to die like this.

>> I don't want to die like this.

>> NARRATOR: On day four, Mayor this.

>> NARRATOR: On day four, Mayor Ray Nagin went on a local radio >> NARRATOR: On day four, Mayor Ray Nagin went on a local radio show.

Ray Nagin went on a local radio show.

>> I don't want to see anybody show.

>> I don't want to see anybody do any more goddamn press >> I don't want to see anybody do any more goddamn press conferences.

do any more goddamn press conferences.

Put a moratorium on press conferences.

Put a moratorium on press conferences.

Put a moratorium on press conferences.

Don't tell me 40,000 people are conferences.

Don't tell me 40,000 people are coming here.

Don't tell me 40,000 people are coming here.

They're not here.

coming here.

They're not here.

>> Smith: When I hear you on the They're not here.

>> Smith: When I hear you on the radio there on Thursday you seem >> Smith: When I hear you on the radio there on Thursday you seem a little unglued.

radio there on Thursday you seem a little unglued.

>> I was.

a little unglued.

>> I was.

I mean, you know, I was watching >> I was.

I mean, you know, I was watching all this suffering at the I mean, you know, I was watching all this suffering at the Superdome, and I was hearing the all this suffering at the Superdome, and I was hearing the president do a press conference.

Superdome, and I was hearing the president do a press conference.

I was hearing the governor do a president do a press conference.

I was hearing the governor do a press conference.

I was hearing the governor do a press conference.

And I was hearing all these press conference.

And I was hearing all these people doing press conference.

And I was hearing all these people doing press conference.

And what they were saying was people doing press conference.

And what they were saying was not reality.

And what they were saying was not reality.

>> Mr. President, thank you, not reality.

>> Mr. President, thank you, thank you, thank you.

>> Mr. President, thank you, thank you, thank you.

>> We are extremely pleased with thank you, thank you.

>> We are extremely pleased with the response of every element of >> We are extremely pleased with the response of every element of the federal government.

the response of every element of the federal government.

>> I just...

I said, "Uh-uh.

the federal government.

>> I just...

I said, "Uh-uh.

I've had enough of this."

>> I just...

I said, "Uh-uh.

I've had enough of this."

And then I called up behind it I've had enough of this."

And then I called up behind it and I said, "Look, here's what's And then I called up behind it and I said, "Look, here's what's really going on."

and I said, "Look, here's what's really going on."

And the rest is history.

really going on."

And the rest is history.

It's too doggoned late.

And the rest is history.

It's too doggoned late.

Now get off your asses and let's It's too doggoned late.

Now get off your asses and let's do something, and let's fix the Now get off your asses and let's do something, and let's fix the biggest goddamn crisis in the do something, and let's fix the biggest goddamn crisis in the history of this country.

biggest goddamn crisis in the history of this country.

>> NARRATOR: State and local history of this country.

>> NARRATOR: State and local officials were 80 miles away in >> NARRATOR: State and local officials were 80 miles away in the state capital, Baton Rouge.

officials were 80 miles away in the state capital, Baton Rouge.

>> Director Brown, I hope you the state capital, Baton Rouge.

>> Director Brown, I hope you will tell President Bush how >> Director Brown, I hope you will tell President Bush how much we appreciate it.

will tell President Bush how much we appreciate it.

These are the times that really much we appreciate it.

These are the times that really count.

These are the times that really count.

>> What I've seen here today is count.

>> What I've seen here today is a team that is very tight-knit, >> What I've seen here today is a team that is very tight-knit, working closely together, being a team that is very tight-knit, working closely together, being very professional, doing... and working closely together, being very professional, doing... and in my humble opinion, making the very professional, doing... and in my humble opinion, making the right calls.

in my humble opinion, making the right calls.

>> NARRATOR: In his first full- right calls.

>> NARRATOR: In his first full- length TV interview post- >> NARRATOR: In his first full- length TV interview post- Katrina, former FEMA director length TV interview post- Katrina, former FEMA director Frontline Katrina, former FEMA director Frontline that during the crisis he misled Frontline that during the crisis he misled the public to quell panic.

that during the crisis he misled the public to quell panic.

>> Well, because I'm not going the public to quell panic.

>> Well, because I'm not going to go on television and publicly >> Well, because I'm not going to go on television and publicly say that I think that the mayor to go on television and publicly say that I think that the mayor and the governor are not doing say that I think that the mayor and the governor are not doing their job and that they're and the governor are not doing their job and that they're not... they don't have the sense their job and that they're not... they don't have the sense of urgency.

not... they don't have the sense of urgency.

I'm not going to say that of urgency.

I'm not going to say that publicly.

I'm not going to say that publicly.

I don't think that's the proper publicly.

I don't think that's the proper thing to do.

I don't think that's the proper thing to do.

>> Smith: So, though you said thing to do.

>> Smith: So, though you said that, you didn't feel that way >> Smith: So, though you said that, you didn't feel that way at that time?

that, you didn't feel that way at that time?

>> Oh, absolutely not.

at that time?

>> Oh, absolutely not.

You know, I'm just not going to >> Oh, absolutely not.

You know, I'm just not going to go on public television and bash You know, I'm just not going to go on public television and bash in the middle of a disaster what go on public television and bash in the middle of a disaster what I think people should or should in the middle of a disaster what I think people should or should not be doing.

I think people should or should not be doing.

>> We need help!

not be doing.

>> We need help!

>> NARRATOR: Brown's assurances >> We need help!

>> NARRATOR: Brown's assurances weren't convincing.

>> NARRATOR: Brown's assurances weren't convincing.

>> We've haven't eaten in, like, weren't convincing.

>> We've haven't eaten in, like, five days.

>> We've haven't eaten in, like, five days.

>> NARRATOR: By day four, he five days.

>> NARRATOR: By day four, he appeared completely out of >> NARRATOR: By day four, he appeared completely out of touch.

appeared completely out of touch.

>> Where is the aid?

touch.

>> Where is the aid?

It's the question people keep >> Where is the aid?

It's the question people keep asking us on camera.

It's the question people keep asking us on camera.

>> Brian, it's an absolutely asking us on camera.

>> Brian, it's an absolutely fair question, and I've got to >> Brian, it's an absolutely fair question, and I've got to tell you, from the bottom of my fair question, and I've got to tell you, from the bottom of my heart, how sad I feel for those tell you, from the bottom of my heart, how sad I feel for those people.

heart, how sad I feel for those people.

The federal government just people.

The federal government just learned about those people The federal government just learned about those people today.

learned about those people today.

>> Smith: You say, "Brian, it's today.

>> Smith: You say, "Brian, it's an absolutely a fair question.

>> Smith: You say, "Brian, it's an absolutely a fair question.

The federal government just an absolutely a fair question.

The federal government just learned about those people The federal government just learned about those people today."

learned about those people today."

Now, you have subsequently said today."

Now, you have subsequently said that you had misspoken.

Now, you have subsequently said that you had misspoken.

>> Right.

that you had misspoken.

>> Right.

>> Smith: But you said it again >> Right.

>> Smith: But you said it again to Ted Koppel.

>> Smith: But you said it again to Ted Koppel.

>> Don't you guys watch to Ted Koppel.

>> Don't you guys watch television?

>> Don't you guys watch television?

Don't you guys listen to the television?

Don't you guys listen to the radio?

Don't you guys listen to the radio?

>> We've been so focused on radio?

>> We've been so focused on doing rescue.

>> We've been so focused on doing rescue.

And I'll take you one further.

doing rescue.

And I'll take you one further.

I think I actually said it to And I'll take you one further.

I think I actually said it to Soledad O'Brien.

I think I actually said it to Soledad O'Brien.

>> I don't understand how FEMA Soledad O'Brien.

>> I don't understand how FEMA cannot have this information.

>> I don't understand how FEMA cannot have this information.

>> Soledad, I learned about it cannot have this information.

>> Soledad, I learned about it listening to the news reports.

>> Soledad, I learned about it listening to the news reports.

>> Smith: So you said it three listening to the news reports.

>> Smith: So you said it three times.

>> Smith: So you said it three times.

>> I said it three times.

times.

>> I said it three times.

>> Smith: So how do you misspeak >> I said it three times.

>> Smith: So how do you misspeak three times?

>> Smith: So how do you misspeak three times?

I don't understand.

three times?

I don't understand.

I don't understand.

I don't understand.

I don't understand.

>> I understand why people can I don't understand.

>> I understand why people can now look at that tape and say, >> I understand why people can now look at that tape and say, "Brown's saying he just learned now look at that tape and say, "Brown's saying he just learned about that?

"Brown's saying he just learned about that?

He really must be an idiot."

about that?

He really must be an idiot."

And I simply misspoke.

He really must be an idiot."

And I simply misspoke.

And I simply misspoke.

And I simply misspoke.

And I simply misspoke.

I knew about it 24 hours before, And I simply misspoke.

I knew about it 24 hours before, and I should have said, "We just I knew about it 24 hours before, and I should have said, "We just learned about it 24 hours ago, and I should have said, "We just learned about it 24 hours ago, Brian."

learned about it 24 hours ago, Brian."

>> Smith: I just don't Brian."

>> Smith: I just don't understand how you would >> Smith: I just don't understand how you would misspeak three times about that understand how you would misspeak three times about that situation.

misspeak three times about that situation.

>> Well, I'll tell you what situation.

>> Well, I'll tell you what we'll do.

>> Well, I'll tell you what we'll do.

Next time there's a really big we'll do.

Next time there's a really big disaster, we'll put you in Next time there's a really big disaster, we'll put you in charge of it.

disaster, we'll put you in charge of it.

We'll not give you any sleep, charge of it.

We'll not give you any sleep, and we'll put you on this side We'll not give you any sleep, and we'll put you on this side of the chair, on this side of and we'll put you on this side of the chair, on this side of the camera.

of the chair, on this side of the camera.

And we'll pepper you with the camera.

And we'll pepper you with questions for a couple hours at And we'll pepper you with questions for a couple hours at a time and see how tired you questions for a couple hours at a time and see how tired you are.

a time and see how tired you are.

>> NARRATOR: Brown's counterpart are.

>> NARRATOR: Brown's counterpart in Baton Rouge was Governor >> NARRATOR: Brown's counterpart in Baton Rouge was Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco, a in Baton Rouge was Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco, a former schoolteacher and two- Kathleen Babineaux Blanco, a former schoolteacher and two- term lieutenant governor.

former schoolteacher and two- term lieutenant governor.

Her critics say she was term lieutenant governor.

Her critics say she was unprepared and made vague, Her critics say she was unprepared and made vague, confusing requests to unprepared and made vague, confusing requests to Washington.

confusing requests to Washington.

>> You know, I asked for help, Washington.

>> You know, I asked for help, whatever help you can give me.

>> You know, I asked for help, whatever help you can give me.

If somebody asks me for help, whatever help you can give me.

If somebody asks me for help, and I'll say, "Okay, well, I can If somebody asks me for help, and I'll say, "Okay, well, I can do this, this, this, and this.

and I'll say, "Okay, well, I can do this, this, this, and this.

What do you need?"

do this, this, this, and this.

What do you need?"

But nobody ever told me the What do you need?"

But nobody ever told me the kinds of things that they could But nobody ever told me the kinds of things that they could give me.

kinds of things that they could give me.

give me.

give me.

give me.

My first conversation with give me.

My first conversation with President Bush was asking for My first conversation with President Bush was asking for all federal firepower.

President Bush was asking for all federal firepower.

And I mean, I meant everything, all federal firepower.

And I mean, I meant everything, just send it.

And I mean, I meant everything, just send it.

Give me planes, give me boats, just send it.

Give me planes, give me boats, give me people.

Give me planes, give me boats, give me people.

give me people.

give me people.

give me people.

>> Smith: You've been criticized give me people.

>> Smith: You've been criticized for not asking for help in the >> Smith: You've been criticized for not asking for help in the right way, that you didn't for not asking for help in the right way, that you didn't understand the system.

right way, that you didn't understand the system.

>> When you say, "Help, help," understand the system.

>> When you say, "Help, help," just, you know... >> When you say, "Help, help," just, you know... >> Smith: Well, did you ask for just, you know... >> Smith: Well, did you ask for troops?

>> Smith: Well, did you ask for troops?

>> I wanted, you know, more troops?

>> I wanted, you know, more help.

>> I wanted, you know, more help.

I wanted whatever assets they help.

I wanted whatever assets they had.

I wanted whatever assets they had.

>> NARRATOR: Mayor Nagin was had.

>> NARRATOR: Mayor Nagin was asking the same questions of the >> NARRATOR: Mayor Nagin was asking the same questions of the governor.

asking the same questions of the governor.

>> Smith: What were you asking governor.

>> Smith: What were you asking for?

>> Smith: What were you asking for?

>> We need help.

for?

>> We need help.

We need troops.

>> We need help.

We need troops.

We need resources.

We need troops.

We need resources.

We need food.

We need resources.

We need food.

We need water.

We need food.

We need water.

You name it, we need it.

We need water.

You name it, we need it.

>> Smith: And what did she say You name it, we need it.

>> Smith: And what did she say to you?

>> Smith: And what did she say to you?

>> She said she was going to to you?

>> She said she was going to help.

>> She said she was going to help.

>> Smith: And then?

help.

>> Smith: And then?

>> Then time went on.

>> Smith: And then?

>> Then time went on.

>> With all due respect to them, >> Then time went on.

>> With all due respect to them, I think they were just truly >> With all due respect to them, I think they were just truly overwhelmed.

I think they were just truly overwhelmed.

>> Smith: Well, as I understand overwhelmed.

>> Smith: Well, as I understand it, when local officials are >> Smith: Well, as I understand it, when local officials are overwhelmed, that's why we have it, when local officials are overwhelmed, that's why we have FEMA.

overwhelmed, that's why we have FEMA.

>> That's correct.

FEMA.

>> That's correct.

But FEMA does that based upon >> That's correct.

But FEMA does that based upon the priorities of what the state But FEMA does that based upon the priorities of what the state establishes.

the priorities of what the state establishes.

Now, the state is still in establishes.

Now, the state is still in control.

Now, the state is still in control.

We don't come in and take over.

control.

We don't come in and take over.

We don't have the resources to We don't come in and take over.

We don't have the resources to take over.

We don't have the resources to take over.

>> NARRATOR: And Brown claims take over.

>> NARRATOR: And Brown claims that he couldn't really help >> NARRATOR: And Brown claims that he couldn't really help Louisiana because officials that he couldn't really help Louisiana because officials didn't tell him what they Louisiana because officials didn't tell him what they wanted.

didn't tell him what they wanted.

>> I talked to General wanted.

>> I talked to General Landerer... >> I talked to General Landerer... >> Smith: Landreneau.

Landerer... >> Smith: Landreneau.

>> Smith: Landreneau.

>> Smith: Landreneau.

>> Smith: Landreneau.

>> Landerneau, I'm sorry, the >> Smith: Landreneau.

>> Landerneau, I'm sorry, the adjutant general, about some of >> Landerneau, I'm sorry, the adjutant general, about some of the things, you know.

adjutant general, about some of the things, you know.

I actually went to him and said, the things, you know.

I actually went to him and said, "Help me help you.

I actually went to him and said, "Help me help you.

What do you need?"

"Help me help you.

What do you need?"

What do you need?"

What do you need?"

What do you need?"

And I remember being surprised What do you need?"

And I remember being surprised because he didn't have, like, a And I remember being surprised because he didn't have, like, a list of priorities or things because he didn't have, like, a list of priorities or things that he needed.

list of priorities or things that he needed.

>> NARRATOR: But General that he needed.

>> NARRATOR: But General Landreneau says Brown is wrong.

>> NARRATOR: But General Landreneau says Brown is wrong.

>> Smith: Are you saying that Landreneau says Brown is wrong.

>> Smith: Are you saying that he's making this up?

>> Smith: Are you saying that he's making this up?

>> I'm not going to, you know... he's making this up?

>> I'm not going to, you know...

I'm not going to comment on what >> I'm not going to, you know...

I'm not going to comment on what Mr. Brown said or didn't say.

I'm not going to comment on what Mr. Brown said or didn't say.

>> Smith: But he's making a Mr. Brown said or didn't say.

>> Smith: But he's making a charge about you.

>> Smith: But he's making a charge about you.

>> But I can assure you that we charge about you.

>> But I can assure you that we requested assistance from FEMA.

>> But I can assure you that we requested assistance from FEMA.

We've got documentation to show requested assistance from FEMA.

We've got documentation to show that.

We've got documentation to show that.

>> Narrator: After that that.

>> Narrator: After that interview, General Landreneau >> Narrator: After that interview, General Landreneau a 48-page interview, General Landreneau a 48-page document from FEMA.

a 48-page document from FEMA.

It shows hundreds of specific document from FEMA.

It shows hundreds of specific requests that FEMA had received It shows hundreds of specific requests that FEMA had received from the state for manpower, requests that FEMA had received from the state for manpower, equipment, and supplies.

from the state for manpower, equipment, and supplies.

Other Louisiana emergency equipment, and supplies.

Other Louisiana emergency managers say FEMA simply didn't Other Louisiana emergency managers say FEMA simply didn't deliver.

managers say FEMA simply didn't deliver.

deliver.

deliver.

deliver.

>> We were flabbergasted by some deliver.

>> We were flabbergasted by some statements made by high FEMA >> We were flabbergasted by some statements made by high FEMA officials, including statements made by high FEMA officials, including Undersecretary Brown, when he officials, including Undersecretary Brown, when he said that he did not come or Undersecretary Brown, when he said that he did not come or FEMA didn't come because the said that he did not come or FEMA didn't come because the locals didn't ask.

FEMA didn't come because the locals didn't ask.

locals didn't ask.

locals didn't ask.

locals didn't ask.

The locals did ask.

locals didn't ask.

The locals did ask.

>> Smith: You told FEMA that you The locals did ask.

>> Smith: You told FEMA that you needed help?

>> Smith: You told FEMA that you needed help?

>> We needed this, we needed... needed help?

>> We needed this, we needed... and not only help.

>> We needed this, we needed... and not only help.

We needed specifics.

and not only help.

We needed specifics.

>> Smith: And then you heard We needed specifics.

>> Smith: And then you heard Brown saying that you hadn't >> Smith: And then you heard Brown saying that you hadn't made those requests.

Brown saying that you hadn't made those requests.

>> That's correct.

made those requests.

>> That's correct.

>> Smith: What went through your >> That's correct.

>> Smith: What went through your mind?

>> Smith: What went through your mind?

>> It was, you know, anger.

mind?

>> It was, you know, anger.

It was betrayal.

>> It was, you know, anger.

It was betrayal.

It was... calamity was going to It was betrayal.

It was... calamity was going to be, you know, intensified, and It was... calamity was going to be, you know, intensified, and we were going to look at now be, you know, intensified, and we were going to look at now devastation squared.

>> Good morning.

>> Good morning.

Yesterday I saw the aftermath of >> Good morning.

Yesterday I saw the aftermath of one of the largest natural Yesterday I saw the aftermath of one of the largest natural disasters ever to strike one of the largest natural disasters ever to strike America.

disasters ever to strike America.

>> NARRATOR: In Washington, it America.

>> NARRATOR: In Washington, it took six days for the >> NARRATOR: In Washington, it took six days for the administration to acknowledge took six days for the administration to acknowledge the inadequacy of the federal administration to acknowledge the inadequacy of the federal response.

the inadequacy of the federal response.

>> Many of our citizens simply response.

>> Many of our citizens simply are not getting the help they >> Many of our citizens simply are not getting the help they need, especially in New Orleans.

are not getting the help they need, especially in New Orleans.

And that is unacceptable.

need, especially in New Orleans.

And that is unacceptable.

And that is unacceptable.

And that is unacceptable.

And that is unacceptable.

>> There was a period of days, And that is unacceptable.

>> There was a period of days, and we weren't sure who was >> There was a period of days, and we weren't sure who was directing the federal response, and we weren't sure who was directing the federal response, and were all the actions being directing the federal response, and were all the actions being taken.

and were all the actions being taken.

And the impression given in taken.

And the impression given in those four days is basically And the impression given in those four days is basically indelible, and it is injurious those four days is basically indelible, and it is injurious to the President.

indelible, and it is injurious to the President.

There's no question.

to the President.

There's no question.

There's no question.

There's no question.

There's no question.

>> NARRATOR: Everyone pointed There's no question.

>> NARRATOR: Everyone pointed fingers at everyone else.

>> NARRATOR: Everyone pointed fingers at everyone else.

No one came in for more fingers at everyone else.

No one came in for more criticism than FEMA director No one came in for more criticism than FEMA director Brown.

criticism than FEMA director Brown.

>> My only understanding is that Brown.

>> My only understanding is that someone didn't pull the trigger >> My only understanding is that someone didn't pull the trigger to get the resources there.

someone didn't pull the trigger to get the resources there.

to get the resources there.

to get the resources there.

to get the resources there.

And who was responsible for to get the resources there.

And who was responsible for pulling the trigger is And who was responsible for pulling the trigger is questionable, because I could pulling the trigger is questionable, because I could never figure out who was in questionable, because I could never figure out who was in charge of that disaster for the never figure out who was in charge of that disaster for the first five days of the disaster.

charge of that disaster for the first five days of the disaster.

Was it Mike Brown, was it first five days of the disaster.

Was it Mike Brown, was it Michael Chertoff, or was it the Was it Mike Brown, was it Michael Chertoff, or was it the president?

Michael Chertoff, or was it the president?

president?

president?

president?

>> NARRATOR: It had been a very president?

>> NARRATOR: It had been a very long week.

>> NARRATOR: It had been a very long week.

America's top National Guard long week.

America's top National Guard officer says he hopes next time America's top National Guard officer says he hopes next time things would be done officer says he hopes next time things would be done differently.

things would be done differently.

>> Smith: What was the impact of differently.

>> Smith: What was the impact of the flooding of your >> Smith: What was the impact of the flooding of your headquarters?

the flooding of your headquarters?

>> Oh, just traumatic effect.

headquarters?

>> Oh, just traumatic effect.

>> Smith: So did it make sense >> Oh, just traumatic effect.

>> Smith: So did it make sense to have it in a place where you >> Smith: So did it make sense to have it in a place where you knew there was possibility of to have it in a place where you knew there was possibility of flooding?

knew there was possibility of flooding?

>> In hindsight, no.

flooding?

>> In hindsight, no.

>> Smith: You wouldn't do it >> In hindsight, no.

>> Smith: You wouldn't do it that way again?

>> Smith: You wouldn't do it that way again?

>> No, I don't think they would.

that way again?

>> No, I don't think they would.

I don't think they would.

>> No, I don't think they would.

I don't think they would.

>> NARRATOR: But General I don't think they would.

>> NARRATOR: But General Landreneau insists he made the >> NARRATOR: But General Landreneau insists he made the right call.

Landreneau insists he made the right call.

>> Smith: So you'd do it the right call.

>> Smith: So you'd do it the same way.

>> Smith: So you'd do it the same way.

You wouldn't change the way you same way.

You wouldn't change the way you deploy?

You wouldn't change the way you deploy?

>> No.

deploy?

>> No.

We would have personnel and >> No.

We would have personnel and equipment at Jackson barracks We would have personnel and equipment at Jackson barracks again.

equipment at Jackson barracks again.

>> Smith: I talked to General again.

>> Smith: I talked to General Landreneau, and he said he would >> Smith: I talked to General Landreneau, and he said he would do it again.

Landreneau, and he said he would do it again.

He would do it exactly the same do it again.

He would do it exactly the same way.

He would do it exactly the same way. )

way. )

Well, I would hope that he would ) Well, I would hope that he would think that through a little more Well, I would hope that he would think that through a little more carefully.

Exceptional tides flooding Exceptional tides flooding inland on the Texas coast Exceptional tides flooding inland on the Texas coast underlined the warnings of the inland on the Texas coast underlined the warnings of the approach of Hurricane Carla.

underlined the warnings of the approach of Hurricane Carla.

>> NARRATOR: The establishment approach of Hurricane Carla.

>> NARRATOR: The establishment of FEMA grew out of a series of >> NARRATOR: The establishment of FEMA grew out of a series of disasters back in the '60s and of FEMA grew out of a series of disasters back in the '60s and the '70s.

disasters back in the '60s and the '70s.

Evacuation was aided by the '70s.

Evacuation was aided by school buses which took nearly Evacuation was aided by school buses which took nearly a thousand men, women, and school buses which took nearly a thousand men, women, and children to safety.

a thousand men, women, and children to safety.

Reports put the total number of children to safety.

Reports put the total number of refugees at half a million.

Reports put the total number of refugees at half a million.

They were wise to get out in refugees at half a million.

They were wise to get out in time.

They were wise to get out in time.

>> NARRATOR: The first, Carla, time.

>> NARRATOR: The first, Carla, struck on September 11, 1961.

>> NARRATOR: The first, Carla, struck on September 11, 1961.

When the hurricane struck, it struck on September 11, 1961.

When the hurricane struck, it lashed in 170 miles an hour.

When the hurricane struck, it lashed in 170 miles an hour.

Hurricane Carla, the wildest of lashed in 170 miles an hour.

Hurricane Carla, the wildest of the century.

Hurricane Carla, the wildest of the century.

>> NARRATOR: A wave of monster the century.

>> NARRATOR: A wave of monster storms followed.

>> NARRATOR: A wave of monster storms followed.

Another 25,000 refugees to storms followed.

Another 25,000 refugees to swamp already-overcrowded Another 25,000 refugees to swamp already-overcrowded shelters.

swamp already-overcrowded shelters.

>> NARRATOR: When Hurricane shelters.

>> NARRATOR: When Hurricane Betsy struck Louisiana in 1965, >> NARRATOR: When Hurricane Betsy struck Louisiana in 1965, half of New Orleans flooded.

Betsy struck Louisiana in 1965, half of New Orleans flooded.

Four years later, Hurricane half of New Orleans flooded.

Four years later, Hurricane Camille devastated the Gulf Four years later, Hurricane Camille devastated the Gulf Coast again.

Camille devastated the Gulf Coast again.

From Biloxi to Bay St. Louis, Coast again.

From Biloxi to Bay St. Louis, everything's in shambles.

From Biloxi to Bay St. Louis, everything's in shambles.

>> NARRATOR: There seemed to be everything's in shambles.

>> NARRATOR: There seemed to be no end.

>> NARRATOR: There seemed to be no end.

It's been more than a week no end.

It's been more than a week since Hurricane Agnes brought It's been more than a week since Hurricane Agnes brought the floodwaters... since Hurricane Agnes brought the floodwaters... >> NARRATOR: There was no FEMA the floodwaters... >> NARRATOR: There was no FEMA in those days.

>> NARRATOR: There was no FEMA in those days.

Relief work was the collective in those days.

Relief work was the collective responsibility of more than 100 Relief work was the collective responsibility of more than 100 different federal agencies.

responsibility of more than 100 different federal agencies.

Free food is being passed different federal agencies.

Free food is being passed out.

Free food is being passed out.

Much of it comes from the out.

Much of it comes from the Department of Agriculture.

Much of it comes from the Department of Agriculture.

>> NARRATOR: People often Department of Agriculture.

>> NARRATOR: People often complained about lack of >> NARRATOR: People often complained about lack of coordination and poor results.

complained about lack of coordination and poor results.

>> Many of the people here and coordination and poor results.

>> Many of the people here and others in the path of Hurricane >> Many of the people here and others in the path of Hurricane Agnes were completely wiped out.

others in the path of Hurricane Agnes were completely wiped out.

Many of them feel that federal Agnes were completely wiped out.

Many of them feel that federal aid is too slow in coming and Many of them feel that federal aid is too slow in coming and too little.

aid is too slow in coming and too little.

>> NARRATOR: Eventually, it was too little.

>> NARRATOR: Eventually, it was state governors who pressed >> NARRATOR: Eventually, it was state governors who pressed president Jimmy Carter into state governors who pressed president Jimmy Carter into streamlining federal response.

president Jimmy Carter into streamlining federal response.

The Federal Emergency Management streamlining federal response.

The Federal Emergency Management Agency was created in 1979.

The Federal Emergency Management Agency was created in 1979.

Ironically, over the next decade Agency was created in 1979.

Ironically, over the next decade there were fewer disasters to Ironically, over the next decade there were fewer disasters to respond to.

there were fewer disasters to respond to.

respond to.

respond to.

respond to.

>> I remember I used to write respond to.

>> I remember I used to write position papers about disaster >> I remember I used to write position papers about disaster planning.

position papers about disaster planning.

We always had to use examples planning.

We always had to use examples out of South America or a Mexico We always had to use examples out of South America or a Mexico earthquake or Africa or out of South America or a Mexico earthquake or Africa or something because there weren't earthquake or Africa or something because there weren't killer disasters in the U.S. something because there weren't killer disasters in the U.S. killer disasters in the U.S. killer disasters in the U.S. killer disasters in the U.S. >> NARRATOR: FEMA quickly became killer disasters in the U.S. >> NARRATOR: FEMA quickly became a sort of backwater.

>> NARRATOR: FEMA quickly became a sort of backwater.

Under Reagan and Bush it endured a sort of backwater.

Under Reagan and Bush it endured scandal and became a parking lot Under Reagan and Bush it endured scandal and became a parking lot for political appointees.

scandal and became a parking lot for political appointees.

>> George Bush I appointed-- for political appointees.

>> George Bush I appointed-- all over >> George Bush I appointed-- all over again-- he appointed a non- all over again-- he appointed a non- emergency planning person in again-- he appointed a non- emergency planning person in charge of FEMA.

emergency planning person in charge of FEMA.

That was Wallace Stickney.

charge of FEMA.

That was Wallace Stickney.

The only claim to fame I ever That was Wallace Stickney.

The only claim to fame I ever heard was that his wife and The only claim to fame I ever heard was that his wife and another fellow's wife used to go heard was that his wife and another fellow's wife used to go shopping together, and that's another fellow's wife used to go shopping together, and that's how he got the job to be the shopping together, and that's how he got the job to be the head of FEMA.

how he got the job to be the head of FEMA.

>> NARRATOR: In fact, Stickney head of FEMA.

>> NARRATOR: In fact, Stickney was hired because he was a >> NARRATOR: In fact, Stickney was hired because he was a friend and past advisor to was hired because he was a friend and past advisor to Bush's chief of staff, former friend and past advisor to Bush's chief of staff, former New Hampshire Governor John Bush's chief of staff, former New Hampshire Governor John Sununu.

New Hampshire Governor John Sununu.

In 1992, his FEMA would face the Sununu.

In 1992, his FEMA would face the first category-five hurricane to In 1992, his FEMA would face the first category-five hurricane to hit the U.S. in 23 years.

first category-five hurricane to hit the U.S. in 23 years.

hit the U.S. in 23 years.

hit the U.S. in 23 years.

hit the U.S. in 23 years.

>> I was at the hurricane center hit the U.S. in 23 years.

>> I was at the hurricane center two days before Andrew even >> I was at the hurricane center two days before Andrew even developed real well.

two days before Andrew even developed real well.

developed real well.

developed real well.

developed real well.

And I saw it unfolding, and you developed real well.

And I saw it unfolding, and you could see what was going to And I saw it unfolding, and you could see what was going to happen.

could see what was going to happen.

I can remember that a lot of happen.

I can remember that a lot of people just didn't take it I can remember that a lot of people just didn't take it seriously.

people just didn't take it seriously.

>> NARRATOR: Andrew was compact, seriously.

>> NARRATOR: Andrew was compact, just 60 miles across, with >> NARRATOR: Andrew was compact, just 60 miles across, with ferocious 175-mile-an-hour just 60 miles across, with ferocious 175-mile-an-hour winds.

ferocious 175-mile-an-hour winds.

But it missed Miami.

winds.

But it missed Miami.

>> The news media, the first But it missed Miami.

>> The news media, the first thing they did was go to Miami >> The news media, the first thing they did was go to Miami Beach and around Miami.

thing they did was go to Miami Beach and around Miami.

And they said, "Oh, yeah, you Beach and around Miami.

And they said, "Oh, yeah, you know, it doesn't look too bad."

And they said, "Oh, yeah, you know, it doesn't look too bad."

And nobody even paid any know, it doesn't look too bad."

And nobody even paid any attention to poor Florida City And nobody even paid any attention to poor Florida City or even Homestead.

attention to poor Florida City or even Homestead.

I could tell when I got up there or even Homestead.

I could tell when I got up there that nobody in the state of I could tell when I got up there that nobody in the state of Florida could handle the that nobody in the state of Florida could handle the situation.

Florida could handle the situation.

>> NARRATOR: The storm had situation.

>> NARRATOR: The storm had damaged or destroyed 125,000 >> NARRATOR: The storm had damaged or destroyed 125,000 homes.

damaged or destroyed 125,000 homes.

Thousands were stranded without homes.

Thousands were stranded without food or water.

Thousands were stranded without food or water.

Overwhelmed, local emergency food or water.

Overwhelmed, local emergency managers waited for FEMA.

Overwhelmed, local emergency managers waited for FEMA.

>> And we waited and we waited.

managers waited for FEMA.

>> And we waited and we waited.

And it became apparent that the >> And we waited and we waited.

And it became apparent that the outside world really didn't get And it became apparent that the outside world really didn't get what was going on, really didn't outside world really didn't get what was going on, really didn't understand how desperate the what was going on, really didn't understand how desperate the situation was.

understand how desperate the situation was.

situation was.

situation was.

situation was.

And you're looking at people in situation was.

And you're looking at people in your community dying as a result And you're looking at people in your community dying as a result of it.

your community dying as a result of it.

We had people from FEMA telling of it.

We had people from FEMA telling us that they couldn't give us We had people from FEMA telling us that they couldn't give us the resources cause we hadn't us that they couldn't give us the resources cause we hadn't asked the right way.

the resources cause we hadn't asked the right way.

>> We simply didn't get the asked the right way.

>> We simply didn't get the resources down there in time.

>> We simply didn't get the resources down there in time.

We had no relationship with the resources down there in time.

We had no relationship with the State of Florida.

We had no relationship with the State of Florida.

So we weren't sitting with the State of Florida.

So we weren't sitting with the Governor finding out what was So we weren't sitting with the Governor finding out what was going wrong, and we were Governor finding out what was going wrong, and we were dysfunctional, just as we... as going wrong, and we were dysfunctional, just as we... as FEMA was dysfunctional during dysfunctional, just as we... as FEMA was dysfunctional during Hurricane Katrina.

FEMA was dysfunctional during Hurricane Katrina.

Hurricane Katrina.

Hurricane Katrina.

Hurricane Katrina.

>> At that point in time, it Hurricane Katrina.

>> At that point in time, it became apparent that we needed >> At that point in time, it became apparent that we needed to do something extraordinary.

became apparent that we needed to do something extraordinary.

We had nowhere else to go.

to do something extraordinary.

We had nowhere else to go.

If we do not get more food and We had nowhere else to go.

If we do not get more food and water into the South End in a If we do not get more food and water into the South End in a very short period of time we're water into the South End in a very short period of time we're going to have more casualties very short period of time we're going to have more casualties because we're going to have going to have more casualties because we're going to have people who are dehydrated, who because we're going to have people who are dehydrated, who are without food, babies that people who are dehydrated, who are without food, babies that need formula.

are without food, babies that need formula.

All I know are a lot of people need formula.

All I know are a lot of people are saying, why aren't we doing All I know are a lot of people are saying, why aren't we doing more?

are saying, why aren't we doing more?

We're doing everything we can.

more?

We're doing everything we can.

Where in the hell is the cavalry We're doing everything we can.

Where in the hell is the cavalry on this one?

Where in the hell is the cavalry on this one?

Within three hours, apparently on this one?

Within three hours, apparently the switchboard of the White Within three hours, apparently the switchboard of the White House was just absolutely the switchboard of the White House was just absolutely inundated with calls from all House was just absolutely inundated with calls from all over the United States.

inundated with calls from all over the United States.

The Pentagon was activated in over the United States.

The Pentagon was activated in three hours.

The Pentagon was activated in three hours.

>> Mr. President, do you as three hours.

>> Mr. President, do you as president bear some >> Mr. President, do you as president bear some responsibility for the delay in president bear some responsibility for the delay in federal help?

responsibility for the delay in federal help?

>> We're not talking about federal help?

>> We're not talking about delay.

>> We're not talking about delay.

The military was ready to move delay.

The military was ready to move instantly, hot planning right The military was ready to move instantly, hot planning right from the very beginning.

instantly, hot planning right from the very beginning.

>> NARRATOR: President Bush from the very beginning.

>> NARRATOR: President Bush nudged his FEMA director to the >> NARRATOR: President Bush nudged his FEMA director to the sidelines and inserted his nudged his FEMA director to the sidelines and inserted his secretary of transportation, sidelines and inserted his secretary of transportation, Andrew Card, as fix-it man.

secretary of transportation, Andrew Card, as fix-it man.

>> This is not a time to stand Andrew Card, as fix-it man.

>> This is not a time to stand around and talk, it's a time to >> This is not a time to stand around and talk, it's a time to get busy, and that's what I'm around and talk, it's a time to get busy, and that's what I'm down here to do.

get busy, and that's what I'm down here to do.

>> NARRATOR: Card was down here to do.

>> NARRATOR: Card was immediately besieged with >> NARRATOR: Card was immediately besieged with questions over why it had taken immediately besieged with questions over why it had taken five days to send in the troops.

questions over why it had taken five days to send in the troops.

five days to send in the troops.

five days to send in the troops.

five days to send in the troops.

>> As soon as Governor Chiles five days to send in the troops.

>> As soon as Governor Chiles made the request for federal >> As soon as Governor Chiles made the request for federal troops to come in and assist, we made the request for federal troops to come in and assist, we acted on that request.

troops to come in and assist, we acted on that request.

acted on that request.

acted on that request.

acted on that request.

>> I'm not going to participate acted on that request.

>> I'm not going to participate in the blame game, and nor is >> I'm not going to participate in the blame game, and nor is Governor Chiles.

in the blame game, and nor is Governor Chiles.

>> NARRATOR: Andrew was an Governor Chiles.

>> NARRATOR: Andrew was an election-year disaster for the >> NARRATOR: Andrew was an election-year disaster for the Bush Administration.

election-year disaster for the Bush Administration.

The new Clinton White House Bush Administration.

The new Clinton White House recognized the political value The new Clinton White House recognized the political value of reforming FEMA.

recognized the political value of reforming FEMA.

of reforming FEMA.

of reforming FEMA.

of reforming FEMA.

>> After Hurricane Andrew, which of reforming FEMA.

>> After Hurricane Andrew, which was in the last year of the Bush >> After Hurricane Andrew, which was in the last year of the Bush administration, everyone was in the last year of the Bush administration, everyone realized that FEMA had been a administration, everyone realized that FEMA had been a dumping ground for political realized that FEMA had been a dumping ground for political favors and political appointees.

dumping ground for political favors and political appointees.

favors and political appointees.

favors and political appointees.

favors and political appointees.

And the Clinton administration favors and political appointees.

And the Clinton administration said, "Okay, we don't want to And the Clinton administration said, "Okay, we don't want to have that happen on our watch, said, "Okay, we don't want to have that happen on our watch, what happened to President Bush, have that happen on our watch, what happened to President Bush, 41, with Hurricane Andrew, so what happened to President Bush, 41, with Hurricane Andrew, so let's clean out all the 41, with Hurricane Andrew, so let's clean out all the political appointees, not put let's clean out all the political appointees, not put Democratic political appointees political appointees, not put Democratic political appointees in there, but get professional Democratic political appointees in there, but get professional emergency responders from state in there, but get professional emergency responders from state emergency response units and emergency responders from state emergency response units and create it as a professional emergency response units and create it as a professional agency.

create it as a professional agency.

>> NARRATOR: Clinton tapped agency.

>> NARRATOR: Clinton tapped James Lee Witt, formerly >> NARRATOR: Clinton tapped James Lee Witt, formerly Arkansas's state emergency James Lee Witt, formerly Arkansas's state emergency manager, to become the first Arkansas's state emergency manager, to become the first FEMA director in the agency's manager, to become the first FEMA director in the agency's history with direct experience FEMA director in the agency's history with direct experience in disaster management.

history with direct experience in disaster management.

He was also a very savvy pol.

in disaster management.

He was also a very savvy pol.

>> I remember the first day he He was also a very savvy pol.

>> I remember the first day he was there.

>> I remember the first day he was there.

was there.

was there.

was there.

He stood in front of the was there.

He stood in front of the entrance of FEMA like a He stood in front of the entrance of FEMA like a politician, and he shook hands entrance of FEMA like a politician, and he shook hands with the FEMA employees coming politician, and he shook hands with the FEMA employees coming in, 8:00 in the morning.

with the FEMA employees coming in, 8:00 in the morning.

"I'm James Witt.

in, 8:00 in the morning.

"I'm James Witt.

I'm your new director."

"I'm James Witt.

I'm your new director."

Glad to meet you.

I'm your new director."

Glad to meet you.

And right away people thought, Glad to meet you.

And right away people thought, "Hey, this is interesting; this And right away people thought, "Hey, this is interesting; this is something different."

"Hey, this is interesting; this is something different."

>> Everybody across the country is something different."

>> Everybody across the country loved to hate FEMA, and the >> Everybody across the country loved to hate FEMA, and the morale was just terrible.

loved to hate FEMA, and the morale was just terrible.

It just wasn't performing.

morale was just terrible.

It just wasn't performing.

And we made FEMA a more It just wasn't performing.

And we made FEMA a more functional organization, a And we made FEMA a more functional organization, a flatter organization, and to... functional organization, a flatter organization, and to... with less bureaucracy.

flatter organization, and to... with less bureaucracy.

with less bureaucracy.

with less bureaucracy.

with less bureaucracy.

>> NARRATOR: Republicans and with less bureaucracy.

>> NARRATOR: Republicans and Democrats alike agree that under >> NARRATOR: Republicans and Democrats alike agree that under Witt, FEMA finally became the Democrats alike agree that under Witt, FEMA finally became the professional disaster agency it Witt, FEMA finally became the professional disaster agency it was supposed to be.

professional disaster agency it was supposed to be.

>> Smith: You were never tested was supposed to be.

>> Smith: You were never tested with a disaster of this >> Smith: You were never tested with a disaster of this proportion, though.

with a disaster of this proportion, though.

>> Well, I don't know if I... if proportion, though.

>> Well, I don't know if I... if you... not that magnitude, I >> Well, I don't know if I... if you... not that magnitude, I guess you would say, but you... not that magnitude, I guess you would say, but probably close.

guess you would say, but probably close.

The North Ridge earthquake was probably close.

The North Ridge earthquake was one of the largest in history.

The North Ridge earthquake was one of the largest in history.

The Mississippi River flood was one of the largest in history.

The Mississippi River flood was quite large, nine states.

The Mississippi River flood was quite large, nine states.

And Hurricane Floyd, which quite large, nine states.

And Hurricane Floyd, which flooded almost all of North And Hurricane Floyd, which flooded almost all of North Carolina.

flooded almost all of North Carolina.

Carolina.

Carolina.

Carolina.

>> NARRATOR: Witt focused on Carolina.

>> NARRATOR: Witt focused on prevention, or mitigation, >> NARRATOR: Witt focused on prevention, or mitigation, working with communities to prevention, or mitigation, working with communities to prepare for disasters.

working with communities to prepare for disasters.

He began Project Impact with $30 prepare for disasters.

He began Project Impact with $30 million in seed money.

He began Project Impact with $30 million in seed money.

million in seed money.

million in seed money.

million in seed money.

>> Congress asked us to do a million in seed money.

>> Congress asked us to do a cost-benefit analysis on the >> Congress asked us to do a cost-benefit analysis on the mitigation, and we did that.

cost-benefit analysis on the mitigation, and we did that.

And we found that every dollar mitigation, and we did that.

And we found that every dollar spent saved anywhere from three And we found that every dollar spent saved anywhere from three to five dollars in future spent saved anywhere from three to five dollars in future losses.

to five dollars in future losses.

But it did more than that; it losses.

But it did more than that; it saved lives.

But it did more than that; it saved lives.

>> NARRATOR: Project Impact gave saved lives.

>> NARRATOR: Project Impact gave money to seven pilot cities.

>> NARRATOR: Project Impact gave money to seven pilot cities.

And by 2000, nearly 250 money to seven pilot cities.

And by 2000, nearly 250 communities had joined.

And by 2000, nearly 250 communities had joined.

But not all cities had communities had joined.

But not all cities had participated in the program.

But not all cities had participated in the program.

New Orleans, for one, opted out.

participated in the program.

New Orleans, for one, opted out.

>> Smith: What would New Orleans New Orleans, for one, opted out.

>> Smith: What would New Orleans had gotten had they participated >> Smith: What would New Orleans had gotten had they participated in Project Impact?

had gotten had they participated in Project Impact?

>> New Orleans could have sat in Project Impact?

>> New Orleans could have sat down and brought all their >> New Orleans could have sat down and brought all their community leaders together, both down and brought all their community leaders together, both private sector and public community leaders together, both private sector and public sector, and looked at what their private sector and public sector, and looked at what their risks were.

sector, and looked at what their risks were.

Obviously, everyone in New risks were.

Obviously, everyone in New Orleans recognizes that they Obviously, everyone in New Orleans recognizes that they live below sea level, recognizes Orleans recognizes that they live below sea level, recognizes that the levees are a live below sea level, recognizes that the levees are a protection, but, as we've seen, that the levees are a protection, but, as we've seen, not the ultimate protection.

protection, but, as we've seen, not the ultimate protection.

Then they could begin to address not the ultimate protection.

Then they could begin to address some of the issues.

Then they could begin to address some of the issues.

>> I... you know, as Governor some of the issues.

>> I... you know, as Governor one of the things you have to >> I... you know, as Governor one of the things you have to deal with is catastrophe.

one of the things you have to deal with is catastrophe.

I can remember the fires that deal with is catastrophe.

I can remember the fires that swept Parker County, Texas.

I can remember the fires that swept Parker County, Texas.

>> NARRATOR: In the 2000 swept Parker County, Texas.

>> NARRATOR: In the 2000 presidential debates, Bush >> NARRATOR: In the 2000 presidential debates, Bush praised Witt and FEMA.

presidential debates, Bush praised Witt and FEMA.

>> I've got...

I've got to pay praised Witt and FEMA.

>> I've got...

I've got to pay the administration a compliment.

>> I've got...

I've got to pay the administration a compliment.

James Lee Witt of FEMA has done the administration a compliment.

James Lee Witt of FEMA has done a really good job of working James Lee Witt of FEMA has done a really good job of working with governors during times of a really good job of working with governors during times of crisis.

with governors during times of crisis.

>> NARRATOR: But after Bush crisis.

>> NARRATOR: But after Bush became president, Witt left the >> NARRATOR: But after Bush became president, Witt left the agency.

became president, Witt left the agency.

>> I, Joe Allbaugh, do solemnly agency.

>> I, Joe Allbaugh, do solemnly swear that I will support and >> I, Joe Allbaugh, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the constitution of the swear that I will support and defend the constitution of the United States.

defend the constitution of the United States.

>> NARRATOR: Like his father, United States.

>> NARRATOR: Like his father, Bush stocked FEMA with political >> NARRATOR: Like his father, Bush stocked FEMA with political appointees with little or no Bush stocked FEMA with political appointees with little or no professional experience in appointees with little or no professional experience in emergency management.

professional experience in emergency management.

His campaign manager, Joe emergency management.

His campaign manager, Joe Allbaugh, became FEMA'S new His campaign manager, Joe Allbaugh, became FEMA'S new director.

Allbaugh, became FEMA'S new director.

director.

director.

director.

>> I couldn't have made it to director.

>> I couldn't have made it to Washington without him, and I >> I couldn't have made it to Washington without him, and I can't tell you how honored I am Washington without him, and I can't tell you how honored I am that he has come to Washington can't tell you how honored I am that he has come to Washington to serve his country.

that he has come to Washington to serve his country.

to serve his country.

to serve his country.

to serve his country.

Thank you for accepting this to serve his country.

Thank you for accepting this responsibility.

Thank you for accepting this responsibility.

>> NARRATOR: Following the Bush responsibility.

>> NARRATOR: Following the Bush budget-cutting agenda, Allbaugh >> NARRATOR: Following the Bush budget-cutting agenda, Allbaugh set out to trim FEMA.

budget-cutting agenda, Allbaugh set out to trim FEMA.

One of the proposed cuts was set out to trim FEMA.

One of the proposed cuts was Project Impact.

One of the proposed cuts was Project Impact.

In late February 2001, Microsoft Project Impact.

In late February 2001, Microsoft was hosting a conference in In late February 2001, Microsoft was hosting a conference in Seattle when a major earthquake was hosting a conference in Seattle when a major earthquake struck.

That same day, as Seattle That same day, as Seattle officials were crediting Project That same day, as Seattle officials were crediting Project Impact with minimizing damage to officials were crediting Project Impact with minimizing damage to life and property, the Impact with minimizing damage to life and property, the administration cut the program life and property, the administration cut the program from its budget.

administration cut the program from its budget.

And in May 2001, Allbaugh told from its budget.

And in May 2001, Allbaugh told congress that FEMA was "an And in May 2001, Allbaugh told congress that FEMA was "an oversized entitlement program."

congress that FEMA was "an oversized entitlement program."

He brought in his friend of 25 oversized entitlement program."

He brought in his friend of 25 years, Michael Brown, to be He brought in his friend of 25 years, Michael Brown, to be FEMA's new general counsel.

years, Michael Brown, to be FEMA's new general counsel.

FEMA's new general counsel.

FEMA's new general counsel.

FEMA's new general counsel.

>> In certain areas I think that FEMA's new general counsel.

>> In certain areas I think that FEMA had become bloated.

>> In certain areas I think that FEMA had become bloated.

There was a general desire to FEMA had become bloated.

There was a general desire to make it as lean and mean as There was a general desire to make it as lean and mean as possible, that if there was any make it as lean and mean as possible, that if there was any fat that needed to be cut out, possible, that if there was any fat that needed to be cut out, we should cut that out.

fat that needed to be cut out, we should cut that out.

we should cut that out.

we should cut that out.

we should cut that out.

>> NARRATOR: To focus the we should cut that out.

>> NARRATOR: To focus the agency, Allbaugh identified the >> NARRATOR: To focus the agency, Allbaugh identified the three most likely disasters agency, Allbaugh identified the three most likely disasters facing the country.

three most likely disasters facing the country.

They were: an earthquake in facing the country.

They were: an earthquake in California, a hurricane hitting They were: an earthquake in California, a hurricane hitting New Orleans, and a terrorist California, a hurricane hitting New Orleans, and a terrorist attack in New York.

By all accounts, FEMA performed By all accounts, FEMA performed well after 9/11.

By all accounts, FEMA performed well after 9/11.

>> When 9/11 happened, the well after 9/11.

>> When 9/11 happened, the career people in FEMA did what >> When 9/11 happened, the career people in FEMA did what they always do: they went up to career people in FEMA did what they always do: they went up to New York and immediately set up they always do: they went up to New York and immediately set up a disaster field office, set up New York and immediately set up a disaster field office, set up communications.

a disaster field office, set up communications.

>> Find a way to get down to B2, communications.

>> Find a way to get down to B2, go for it.

>> Find a way to get down to B2, go for it.

The key thing to this thing is go for it.

The key thing to this thing is we do not have a lot of time.

The key thing to this thing is we do not have a lot of time.

>> NARRATOR: Allbaugh would not we do not have a lot of time.

>> NARRATOR: Allbaugh would not on camera, but >> NARRATOR: Allbaugh would not on camera, but in a telephone interview he told on camera, but in a telephone interview he told producer Martin Smith that "the in a telephone interview he told producer Martin Smith that "the FEMA you saw on 9/11 is not the producer Martin Smith that "the FEMA you saw on 9/11 is not the FEMA we see today."

FEMA you saw on 9/11 is not the FEMA we see today."

Allbaugh says the fault lies FEMA we see today."

Allbaugh says the fault lies with what happened next.

Allbaugh says the fault lies with what happened next.

>> Tonight I propose a permanent with what happened next.

>> Tonight I propose a permanent cabinet-level Department of >> Tonight I propose a permanent cabinet-level Department of Homeland Security to unite cabinet-level Department of Homeland Security to unite essential agencies that must Homeland Security to unite essential agencies that must work more closely together... essential agencies that must work more closely together... >> NARRATOR: It would be the work more closely together... >> NARRATOR: It would be the largest reorganization of >> NARRATOR: It would be the largest reorganization of government in 40 years, made up largest reorganization of government in 40 years, made up of 22 federal agencies scattered government in 40 years, made up of 22 federal agencies scattered across Washington, D.C., and of 22 federal agencies scattered across Washington, D.C., and Northern Virginia.

across Washington, D.C., and Northern Virginia.

For the new boss, the challenge Northern Virginia.

For the new boss, the challenge was to get this archipelago of For the new boss, the challenge was to get this archipelago of agencies to function as one was to get this archipelago of agencies to function as one unit.

agencies to function as one unit.

>> This would test the unit.

>> This would test the competence of a Jack Welch or a >> This would test the competence of a Jack Welch or a Lee Iacocca.

competence of a Jack Welch or a Lee Iacocca.

Lee Iacocca.

Lee Iacocca.

Lee Iacocca.

The Department has this huge Lee Iacocca.

The Department has this huge management challenge, a huge The Department has this huge management challenge, a huge budget-- about $30 to $40 management challenge, a huge budget-- about $30 to $40 billion-- the third-largest budget-- about $30 to $40 billion-- the third-largest agency in the government, and billion-- the third-largest agency in the government, and all cobbled together in a matter agency in the government, and all cobbled together in a matter of months.

all cobbled together in a matter of months.

of months.

of months.

of months.

And yet we had at the top of months.

And yet we had at the top someone who'd never managed And yet we had at the top someone who'd never managed anything larger than the someone who'd never managed anything larger than the immediate staff of a governor or anything larger than the immediate staff of a governor or the immediate staff of a immediate staff of a governor or the immediate staff of a congressman.

the immediate staff of a congressman.

>> The Department is under the congressman.

>> The Department is under the command of a superb leader, who >> The Department is under the command of a superb leader, who has my confidence.

command of a superb leader, who has my confidence.

Congratulations, Tom, and thank has my confidence.

Congratulations, Tom, and thank you for serving.

Congratulations, Tom, and thank you for serving.

you for serving.

you for serving.

you for serving.

>> If you look at the Department you for serving.

>> If you look at the Department of Homeland Security, it's like >> If you look at the Department of Homeland Security, it's like a holding company, where you had of Homeland Security, it's like a holding company, where you had some mergers and acquisitions, a holding company, where you had some mergers and acquisitions, you had a couple of new some mergers and acquisitions, you had a couple of new start-ups.

you had a couple of new start-ups.

Basically putting together start-ups.

Basically putting together 20-plus units of government, and Basically putting together 20-plus units of government, and about 180,000 people.

20-plus units of government, and about 180,000 people.

>> NARRATOR: The Department about 180,000 people.

>> NARRATOR: The Department became much larger than congress >> NARRATOR: The Department became much larger than congress had ever proposed.

became much larger than congress had ever proposed.

>> Smith: Then they decided to had ever proposed.

>> Smith: Then they decided to form a larger department than >> Smith: Then they decided to form a larger department than you had recommended.

form a larger department than you had recommended.

>> Correct.

you had recommended.

>> Correct.

>> Smith: Bad idea?

>> Correct.

>> Smith: Bad idea?

Good idea?

>> Smith: Bad idea?

Good idea?

>> I thought it was a bad idea, Good idea?

>> I thought it was a bad idea, because I think that any >> I thought it was a bad idea, because I think that any government reorganization has to because I think that any government reorganization has to come in relatively small bites, government reorganization has to come in relatively small bites, and... or else you get come in relatively small bites, and... or else you get indigestion.

and... or else you get indigestion.

indigestion.

indigestion.

indigestion.

If you look at our original indigestion.

If you look at our original report, it was a much leaner If you look at our original report, it was a much leaner organization.

report, it was a much leaner organization.

The key parts of it were FEMA, organization.

The key parts of it were FEMA, the Coast Guard, Immigration and The key parts of it were FEMA, the Coast Guard, Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

the Coast Guard, Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

But here, you had a lot of other Customs Enforcement.

But here, you had a lot of other things that went in, which in my But here, you had a lot of other things that went in, which in my opinion didn't belong there.

things that went in, which in my opinion didn't belong there.

>> NARRATOR: In the bureaucratic opinion didn't belong there.

>> NARRATOR: In the bureaucratic shuffle, FEMA was downgraded >> NARRATOR: In the bureaucratic shuffle, FEMA was downgraded from an independent agency to a shuffle, FEMA was downgraded from an independent agency to a sub-department of Homeland from an independent agency to a sub-department of Homeland Security.

sub-department of Homeland Security.

Security.

Security.

Security.

>> What it looked like to us was Security.

>> What it looked like to us was that for whatever reasons, a >> What it looked like to us was that for whatever reasons, a well-run system was either on that for whatever reasons, a well-run system was either on purpose or accidentally just well-run system was either on purpose or accidentally just being pulled apart and shredded, purpose or accidentally just being pulled apart and shredded, because our system wasn't being pulled apart and shredded, because our system wasn't perfect, but it worked pretty because our system wasn't perfect, but it worked pretty well.

perfect, but it worked pretty well.

>> FEMA was a very small agency.

well.

>> FEMA was a very small agency.

Being moved into a huge >> FEMA was a very small agency.

Being moved into a huge department where it would have Being moved into a huge department where it would have agencies like Immigration department where it would have agencies like Immigration Services, Transportation agencies like Immigration Services, Transportation Security Administration-- groups Services, Transportation Security Administration-- groups and organizations that had Security Administration-- groups and organizations that had 10,000 to 20,000 employees in and organizations that had 10,000 to 20,000 employees in it.

10,000 to 20,000 employees in it.

And a small agency like FEMA it.

And a small agency like FEMA could not possibly compete.

And a small agency like FEMA could not possibly compete.

The creation of the Department could not possibly compete.

The creation of the Department of Homeland Security became a The creation of the Department of Homeland Security became a death knell for FEMA.

of Homeland Security became a death knell for FEMA.

death knell for FEMA.

death knell for FEMA.

death knell for FEMA.

>> NARRATOR: The morale at FEMA death knell for FEMA.

>> NARRATOR: The morale at FEMA plummeted.

>> NARRATOR: The morale at FEMA plummeted.

Scores of lifelong employees plummeted.

Scores of lifelong employees left the agency.

Scores of lifelong employees left the agency.

Director Joe Allbaugh left for left the agency.

Director Joe Allbaugh left for the private sector.

Director Joe Allbaugh left for the private sector.

Michael Brown took over.

the private sector.

Michael Brown took over.

>> When you move FEMA into the Michael Brown took over.

>> When you move FEMA into the Department of Homeland Security, >> When you move FEMA into the Department of Homeland Security, you do create this added layer Department of Homeland Security, you do create this added layer of bureaucracy that FEMA has to you do create this added layer of bureaucracy that FEMA has to deal with, in terms of budgets, of bureaucracy that FEMA has to deal with, in terms of budgets, in terms of personnel, I.T.

deal with, in terms of budgets, in terms of personnel, I.T.

systems, everything.

in terms of personnel, I.T.

systems, everything.

There was almost $80 million systems, everything.

There was almost $80 million that was taken out of FEMA's There was almost $80 million that was taken out of FEMA's budget to use in other areas of that was taken out of FEMA's budget to use in other areas of the Department of Homeland budget to use in other areas of the Department of Homeland Security.

the Department of Homeland Security.

And once we moved FEMA in there, Security.

And once we moved FEMA in there, these taxes started to occur, And once we moved FEMA in there, these taxes started to occur, and we started to lose the these taxes started to occur, and we started to lose the resources.

and we started to lose the resources.

That was a mistake.

resources.

That was a mistake.

>> Smith: People inside FEMA That was a mistake.

>> Smith: People inside FEMA complained that they got taxed >> Smith: People inside FEMA complained that they got taxed to pay for this new overhead.

complained that they got taxed to pay for this new overhead.

>> Well, it's quite interesting to pay for this new overhead.

>> Well, it's quite interesting they used the word "tax," >> Well, it's quite interesting they used the word "tax," because these agencies and their they used the word "tax," because these agencies and their individual heads understood that because these agencies and their individual heads understood that as part of the integration individual heads understood that as part of the integration process that we're going to as part of the integration process that we're going to redistribute some of the dollars process that we're going to redistribute some of the dollars they had.

redistribute some of the dollars they had.

>> Smith: You don't think FEMA they had.

>> Smith: You don't think FEMA was hurt by the reorganization?

>> Smith: You don't think FEMA was hurt by the reorganization?

>> No, of course not.

was hurt by the reorganization?

>> No, of course not.

No.

>> No, of course not.

No.

du No.

du jour.

du jour.

That was the issue.

jour.

That was the issue.

And I want to emphasize that I That was the issue.

And I want to emphasize that I don't minimize that issue And I want to emphasize that I don't minimize that issue because I do believe it's don't minimize that issue because I do believe it's important, but you need to be because I do believe it's important, but you need to be prepared to respond to a important, but you need to be prepared to respond to a disaster regardless of what prepared to respond to a disaster regardless of what causes it.

disaster regardless of what causes it.

>> NARRATOR: Brown was also causes it.

>> NARRATOR: Brown was also planning to leave FEMA for the >> NARRATOR: Brown was also planning to leave FEMA for the private sector around the time planning to leave FEMA for the private sector around the time Katrina struck.

private sector around the time Katrina struck.

>> Let's get started Katrina struck.

>> Let's get started immediately.

>> Let's get started immediately.

National Hurricane Center, you immediately.

National Hurricane Center, you want to give us an update?

National Hurricane Center, you want to give us an update?

>> Sure.

want to give us an update?

>> Sure.

There is a very, very large >> Sure.

There is a very, very large hurricane, and...

There is a very, very large hurricane, and... >> NARRATOR: For all the hurricane, and... >> NARRATOR: For all the cutbacks at FEMA, Brown faced >> NARRATOR: For all the cutbacks at FEMA, Brown faced Katrina with some planning under cutbacks at FEMA, Brown faced Katrina with some planning under his belt.

Katrina with some planning under his belt.

>> Okay, we'll move on now to his belt.

>> Okay, we'll move on now to the States.

>> Okay, we'll move on now to the States.

Louisiana?

the States.

Louisiana?

>> NARRATOR: A year earlier, Louisiana?

>> NARRATOR: A year earlier, the agency had sponsored an >> NARRATOR: A year earlier, the agency had sponsored an exercise called Hurricane Pam the agency had sponsored an exercise called Hurricane Pam that forecast Katrina.

exercise called Hurricane Pam that forecast Katrina.

that forecast Katrina.

that forecast Katrina.

that forecast Katrina.

>> Pam is the perfect model of that forecast Katrina.

>> Pam is the perfect model of what happened here, you know.

>> Pam is the perfect model of what happened here, you know.

Everything that happened in Pam, what happened here, you know.

Everything that happened in Pam, which was purely fictional and Everything that happened in Pam, which was purely fictional and an exercise, happened in which was purely fictional and an exercise, happened in Katrina.

an exercise, happened in Katrina.

Katrina.

Katrina.

Katrina.

>> NARRATOR: But Pam set up Katrina.

>> NARRATOR: But Pam set up false expectations.

>> NARRATOR: But Pam set up false expectations.

>> Commitments were made at the false expectations.

>> Commitments were made at the end of the exercise: this is >> Commitments were made at the end of the exercise: this is what we're going to do; this is end of the exercise: this is what we're going to do; this is what you're going to do; this is what we're going to do; this is what you're going to do; this is what this one's going to do.

what you're going to do; this is what this one's going to do.

And the problem here that what this one's going to do.

And the problem here that developed in Katrina is that the And the problem here that developed in Katrina is that the locals accepted that.

developed in Katrina is that the locals accepted that.

We believed it.

locals accepted that.

We believed it.

>> NARRATOR: After 20 days and We believed it.

>> NARRATOR: After 20 days and $850,000, the administration cut >> NARRATOR: After 20 days and $850,000, the administration cut FEMA'S funding for the Pam $850,000, the administration cut FEMA'S funding for the Pam exercise before it was FEMA'S funding for the Pam exercise before it was completed.

exercise before it was completed.

This 121-page draft report shows completed.

This 121-page draft report shows that key planning decisions were This 121-page draft report shows that key planning decisions were not yet made.

that key planning decisions were not yet made.

The issue of medical care for not yet made.

The issue of medical care for hurricane victims was not yet The issue of medical care for hurricane victims was not yet finalized.

hurricane victims was not yet finalized.

Communications were not finalized.

Communications were not addressed at all.

Communications were not addressed at all.

Key transportation decisions addressed at all.

Key transportation decisions were left "to be determined."

Key transportation decisions were left "to be determined."

As Katrina approached, state and were left "to be determined."

As Katrina approached, state and city officials knew they were As Katrina approached, state and city officials knew they were unprepared.

city officials knew they were unprepared.

>> The storm was coming.

unprepared.

>> The storm was coming.

It was heading dead on in.

>> The storm was coming.

It was heading dead on in.

>> It had been gaining strength.

It was heading dead on in.

>> It had been gaining strength.

It had been headed closer.

>> It had been gaining strength.

It had been headed closer.

>> A direct hit was going to be It had been headed closer.

>> A direct hit was going to be really bad for the city.

>> A direct hit was going to be really bad for the city.

>> They knew for days that a really bad for the city.

>> They knew for days that a hurricane was going to hit a >> They knew for days that a hurricane was going to hit a city that was already below sea hurricane was going to hit a city that was already below sea level.

city that was already below sea level.

>> I said, "Mr. President, it's level.

>> I said, "Mr. President, it's going to be a big one.

>> I said, "Mr. President, it's going to be a big one.

It's going to be bad, and I'm going to be a big one.

It's going to be bad, and I'm going to need a lot of help.

It's going to be bad, and I'm going to need a lot of help.

We have a... you know, we have a going to need a lot of help.

We have a... you know, we have a very small state.

We have a... you know, we have a very small state.

>> Ladies and gentlemen, I wish very small state.

>> Ladies and gentlemen, I wish I had better news for you, but >> Ladies and gentlemen, I wish I had better news for you, but we are facing a storm that most I had better news for you, but we are facing a storm that most of us have feared.

we are facing a storm that most of us have feared.

>> NARRATOR: In those last hours of us have feared.

>> NARRATOR: In those last hours before landfall, dozens of >> NARRATOR: In those last hours before landfall, dozens of copies of the Pam report were before landfall, dozens of copies of the Pam report were distributed to emergency copies of the Pam report were distributed to emergency planners.

distributed to emergency planners.

>> Every person is hereby planners.

>> Every person is hereby ordered to immediately evacuate >> Every person is hereby ordered to immediately evacuate the city of New Orleans.

ordered to immediately evacuate the city of New Orleans.

>> NARRATOR: But when it came to the city of New Orleans.

>> NARRATOR: But when it came to evacuation, they were forced to >> NARRATOR: But when it came to evacuation, they were forced to improvise.

evacuation, they were forced to improvise.

improvise.

improvise.

improvise.

>> We basically communicated improvise.

>> We basically communicated with all of, you know, the >> We basically communicated with all of, you know, the people in the city, especially with all of, you know, the people in the city, especially the churches, to say, "Look, people in the city, especially the churches, to say, "Look, this thing is coming."

the churches, to say, "Look, this thing is coming."

We faxed out to everyone.

this thing is coming."

We faxed out to everyone.

We faxed out to everyone.

We faxed out to everyone.

We faxed out to everyone.

We had talked about a buddying We faxed out to everyone.

We had talked about a buddying system.

We had talked about a buddying system.

And for the most part, a lot of system.

And for the most part, a lot of churches participated and got And for the most part, a lot of churches participated and got people out.

churches participated and got people out.

>> Smith: Can we evacuate cities people out.

>> Smith: Can we evacuate cities really?

>> Smith: Can we evacuate cities really?

>> I think it would prove to be really?

>> I think it would prove to be virtually impossible on very >> I think it would prove to be virtually impossible on very short notice to get urban virtually impossible on very short notice to get urban America out of the way, as it short notice to get urban America out of the way, as it were.

America out of the way, as it were.

So I think that one of the were.

So I think that one of the difficult lessons from a So I think that one of the difficult lessons from a Katrina-like event is that it's difficult lessons from a Katrina-like event is that it's very difficult to do.

Katrina-like event is that it's very difficult to do.

We weren't as well-prepared as very difficult to do.

We weren't as well-prepared as we should have been, pure and We weren't as well-prepared as we should have been, pure and simple.

we should have been, pure and simple.

>> Smith: Why weren't you simple.

>> Smith: Why weren't you pre-positioned?

>> Smith: Why weren't you pre-positioned?

>> We were pre-positioned.

pre-positioned?

>> We were pre-positioned.

>> Smith: With buses that you >> We were pre-positioned.

>> Smith: With buses that you could get people evacuated out?

>> Smith: With buses that you could get people evacuated out?

>> We did not have buses pre- could get people evacuated out?

>> We did not have buses pre- positioned, because that was a >> We did not have buses pre- positioned, because that was a state and local responsibility.

positioned, because that was a state and local responsibility.

And I don't want to sound like state and local responsibility.

And I don't want to sound like I'm, you know, passing the buck And I don't want to sound like I'm, you know, passing the buck here, but we rely upon state and I'm, you know, passing the buck here, but we rely upon state and local governments.

here, but we rely upon state and local governments.

Evacuation laws are state and local governments.

Evacuation laws are state and local laws.

Evacuation laws are state and local laws.

That's not a federal law.

local laws.

That's not a federal law.

>> NARRATOR: But Brown is not That's not a federal law.

>> NARRATOR: But Brown is not entirely correct.

>> NARRATOR: But Brown is not entirely correct.

Evacuation is a shared entirely correct.

Evacuation is a shared responsibility.

Evacuation is a shared responsibility.

U.S. federal law governing responsibility.

U.S. federal law governing homeland security states U.S. federal law governing homeland security states clearly: "The functions of the homeland security states clearly: "The functions of the federal emergency management clearly: "The functions of the federal emergency management agency include conducting federal emergency management agency include conducting emergency operations to save agency include conducting emergency operations to save lives, through evacuating emergency operations to save lives, through evacuating potential victims."

lives, through evacuating potential victims."

>> Smith: Weren't people dying potential victims."

>> Smith: Weren't people dying while waiting to be rescued?

>> Smith: Weren't people dying while waiting to be rescued?

>> Yes, they absolutely were, while waiting to be rescued?

>> Yes, they absolutely were, because people who either did >> Yes, they absolutely were, because people who either did not or could not evacuate, as because people who either did not or could not evacuate, as the waters began to rise, they not or could not evacuate, as the waters began to rise, they found themselves in situations the waters began to rise, they found themselves in situations where they were going to die.

found themselves in situations where they were going to die.

And every rescuer on every where they were going to die.

And every rescuer on every helicopter and every boat was And every rescuer on every helicopter and every boat was trying to get to every person helicopter and every boat was trying to get to every person that they could.

trying to get to every person that they could.

>> The red and white awning?

that they could.

>> The red and white awning?

>> You see it?

>> The red and white awning?

>> You see it?

We might have to get on a.. >> You see it?

We might have to get on a.. >> One busload would have saved We might have to get on a.. >> One busload would have saved some people.

>> One busload would have saved some people.

Two busloads would have saved some people.

Two busloads would have saved twice as many people.

Two busloads would have saved twice as many people.

Things like that that I just twice as many people.

Things like that that I just wish all of us had been a little Things like that that I just wish all of us had been a little about.

wish all of us had been a little about.

>> NARRATOR: Brown's regrets about.

>> NARRATOR: Brown's regrets aside, there was an age-old >> NARRATOR: Brown's regrets aside, there was an age-old political caution operating, a aside, there was an age-old political caution operating, a belief in maintaining strict political caution operating, a belief in maintaining strict constraints on federal power.

belief in maintaining strict constraints on federal power.

>> Smith: Shouldn't it be the constraints on federal power.

>> Smith: Shouldn't it be the role of the federal government >> Smith: Shouldn't it be the role of the federal government to be setting standards for role of the federal government to be setting standards for evacuation?

to be setting standards for evacuation?

evacuation?

evacuation?

evacuation?

>> I think it's the mayor's evacuation?

>> I think it's the mayor's responsibility.

>> I think it's the mayor's responsibility.

>> Smith: It's not the federal responsibility.

>> Smith: It's not the federal government's responsibility to >> Smith: It's not the federal government's responsibility to make sure that our cities can be government's responsibility to make sure that our cities can be evacuated in a timely fashion?

make sure that our cities can be evacuated in a timely fashion?

evacuated in a timely fashion?

evacuated in a timely fashion?

evacuated in a timely fashion?

>> We are really talking about a evacuated in a timely fashion?

>> We are really talking about a logic path that takes you to >> We are really talking about a logic path that takes you to pretty Orwellian nature.

logic path that takes you to pretty Orwellian nature.

>> Smith: But we... yet we have pretty Orwellian nature.

>> Smith: But we... yet we have educational standards.

>> Smith: But we... yet we have educational standards.

It's the responsibility of educational standards.

It's the responsibility of states to have good clean air It's the responsibility of states to have good clean air policies.

states to have good clean air policies.

>> Yeah, I hear you.

policies.

>> Yeah, I hear you.

I know...

I think I sense where >> Yeah, I hear you.

I know...

I think I sense where you're going.

I know...

I think I sense where you're going.

>> Smith: It's not Orwellian to you're going.

>> Smith: It's not Orwellian to have clean air standards >> Smith: It's not Orwellian to have clean air standards nationwide.

have clean air standards nationwide.

>> It's a step in the direction, nationwide.

>> It's a step in the direction, and I would offer that if in >> It's a step in the direction, and I would offer that if in fact the mayor or the governor and I would offer that if in fact the mayor or the governor had had that imposed on them, fact the mayor or the governor had had that imposed on them, there would have been some "Not had had that imposed on them, there would have been some "Not so fast" associated with it.

there would have been some "Not so fast" associated with it.

>> NARRATOR: The Hurricane Pam so fast" associated with it.

>> NARRATOR: The Hurricane Pam exercise had predicted that more >> NARRATOR: The Hurricane Pam exercise had predicted that more than 100,000 people would be exercise had predicted that more than 100,000 people would be left behind.

than 100,000 people would be left behind.

The vast majority of the more left behind.

The vast majority of the more than 900 people who died in New The vast majority of the more than 900 people who died in New Orleans were elderly, 154 of than 900 people who died in New Orleans were elderly, 154 of them patients in New Orleans Orleans were elderly, 154 of them patients in New Orleans area nursing homes and them patients in New Orleans area nursing homes and hospitals.

area nursing homes and hospitals.

34 died in this facility alone.

hospitals.

34 died in this facility alone.

>> Smith: Why did that happen?

34 died in this facility alone.

>> Smith: Why did that happen?

>> It appears that the staff did >> Smith: Why did that happen?

>> It appears that the staff did not implement their plan which >> It appears that the staff did not implement their plan which requires them to evacuate, and, not implement their plan which requires them to evacuate, and, I suspect, didn't believe that requires them to evacuate, and, I suspect, didn't believe that the storm was going to be as I suspect, didn't believe that the storm was going to be as disastrous as it was.

the storm was going to be as disastrous as it was.

And when they realized it, they disastrous as it was.

And when they realized it, they couldn't do anything.

And when they realized it, they couldn't do anything.

And so they decided to save couldn't do anything.

And so they decided to save themselves, and they ran and And so they decided to save themselves, and they ran and left these, you know, 30-some- themselves, and they ran and left these, you know, 30-some- odd older people to fend for left these, you know, 30-some- odd older people to fend for themselves.

odd older people to fend for themselves.

And they died in their chairs.

>> NARRATOR: The rescue of >> NARRATOR: The rescue of thousands of city residents was >> NARRATOR: The rescue of thousands of city residents was delayed for days by the thousands of city residents was delayed for days by the inability of people to delayed for days by the inability of people to communicate with each other.

inability of people to communicate with each other.

communicate with each other.

communicate with each other.

communicate with each other.

>> All of the existing communicate with each other.

>> All of the existing communications were out.

>> All of the existing communications were out.

They just were non-existent for communications were out.

They just were non-existent for probably 36 hours.

They just were non-existent for probably 36 hours.

probably 36 hours.

probably 36 hours.

probably 36 hours.

Electricity is gone, power is probably 36 hours.

Electricity is gone, power is gone.

Electricity is gone, power is gone.

Your phone system is gone.

gone.

Your phone system is gone.

Your ability to communicate is Your phone system is gone.

Your ability to communicate is literally gone.

Your ability to communicate is literally gone.

Those people were blinded, they literally gone.

Those people were blinded, they were deafened, and they were Those people were blinded, they were deafened, and they were dumb.

were deafened, and they were dumb.

dumb.

dumb.

dumb.

>> And that was probably the dumb.

>> And that was probably the most frustrating thing, and the >> And that was probably the most frustrating thing, and the most... the thing that hampered most frustrating thing, and the most... the thing that hampered efforts the most, and not have a most... the thing that hampered efforts the most, and not have a portable network in place to... efforts the most, and not have a portable network in place to... to take care of that.

portable network in place to... to take care of that.

>> Smith: Secretary Ridge told to take care of that.

>> Smith: Secretary Ridge told me that post-crisis >> Smith: Secretary Ridge told me that post-crisis communications, emergency me that post-crisis communications, emergency systems, was something that they communications, emergency systems, was something that they had.

systems, was something that they had.

>> And, for example, FEMA does had.

>> And, for example, FEMA does have that.

>> And, for example, FEMA does have that.

FEMA has... have that.

FEMA has... >> Smith: So what happened to FEMA has... >> Smith: So what happened to it?

>> Smith: So what happened to it?

>> We used it.

it?

>> We used it.

The problem is FEMA doesn't have >> We used it.

The problem is FEMA doesn't have enough of it.

The problem is FEMA doesn't have enough of it.

enough of it.

enough of it.

enough of it.

>> Smith: But whose enough of it.

>> Smith: But whose responsibility is that?

>> Smith: But whose responsibility is that?

Whose fault is that if FEMA responsibility is that?

Whose fault is that if FEMA doesn't have enough?

Whose fault is that if FEMA doesn't have enough?

>> Well, that's all their fault.

doesn't have enough?

>> Well, that's all their fault.

That means that Congress and the >> Well, that's all their fault.

That means that Congress and the administration and the FEMA That means that Congress and the administration and the FEMA director and everybody else administration and the FEMA director and everybody else needs to sit down and say, "If director and everybody else needs to sit down and say, "If we're going to truly be ready needs to sit down and say, "If we're going to truly be ready for a catastrophic disaster, we we're going to truly be ready for a catastrophic disaster, we need a, b, and c." for a catastrophic disaster, we need a, b, and c." >> Smith: If we believe this need a, b, and c." >> Smith: If we believe this president was focused on any one >> Smith: If we believe this president was focused on any one thing, it was certainly president was focused on any one thing, it was certainly preparedness and the war on thing, it was certainly preparedness and the war on terrorism, but yet, four years preparedness and the war on terrorism, but yet, four years after 9/11, we have no results terrorism, but yet, four years after 9/11, we have no results on... on communications.

after 9/11, we have no results on... on communications.

on... on communications.

on... on communications.

on... on communications.

>> Yeah.

on... on communications.

>> Yeah.

Oh, I think that's a failure.

>> Yeah.

Oh, I think that's a failure.

I think it's a failure on the Oh, I think that's a failure.

I think it's a failure on the part of the Congress, it's a I think it's a failure on the part of the Congress, it's a failure on the part of the part of the Congress, it's a failure on the part of the administration, specifically a failure on the part of the administration, specifically a failure on the part of D.H.S.

administration, specifically a failure on the part of D.H.S.

People should have paid more failure on the part of D.H.S.

People should have paid more attention to that.

People should have paid more attention to that.

attention to that.

attention to that.

attention to that.

I mean, if we ever learned attention to that.

I mean, if we ever learned anything, we learned on 9/11 in I mean, if we ever learned anything, we learned on 9/11 in New York that those valiant anything, we learned on 9/11 in New York that those valiant people who lost their lives, New York that those valiant people who lost their lives, many of them might not have lost people who lost their lives, many of them might not have lost their lives had they been able many of them might not have lost their lives had they been able to talk to each other.

their lives had they been able to talk to each other.

They just weren't able to.

to talk to each other.

They just weren't able to.

>> NARRATOR: The ability of They just weren't able to.

>> NARRATOR: The ability of first responders to talk with >> NARRATOR: The ability of first responders to talk with one another is called first responders to talk with one another is called interoperability.

one another is called interoperability.

Despite widespread recognition interoperability.

Despite widespread recognition of its importance, very few Despite widespread recognition of its importance, very few cities have it.

of its importance, very few cities have it.

>> You've got to get cities have it.

>> You've got to get interoperability of >> You've got to get interoperability of communications or else you're interoperability of communications or else you're going to have disaster no matter communications or else you're going to have disaster no matter what goes on.

going to have disaster no matter what goes on.

>> The primary channel is going what goes on.

>> The primary channel is going to be Spec One.

>> The primary channel is going to be Spec One.

If Spec One goes down, NOPD to be Spec One.

If Spec One goes down, NOPD guys, your backup channels are If Spec One goes down, NOPD guys, your backup channels are going to be on Spec Two.

guys, your backup channels are going to be on Spec Two.

>> If I were in a position to going to be on Spec Two.

>> If I were in a position to make a decision, the first thing >> If I were in a position to make a decision, the first thing I would do is to start funding make a decision, the first thing I would do is to start funding interoperability for every major I would do is to start funding interoperability for every major metropolitan area in this interoperability for every major metropolitan area in this country, and I'd get it done metropolitan area in this country, and I'd get it done this year.

country, and I'd get it done this year.

>> Smith: Here we are four years this year.

>> Smith: Here we are four years after 9/11.

>> Smith: Here we are four years after 9/11.

>> Uh-huh.

after 9/11.

>> Uh-huh.

>> Smith: And we still don't >> Uh-huh.

>> Smith: And we still don't have robust interoperable >> Smith: And we still don't have robust interoperable communications.

have robust interoperable communications.

Why?

communications.

Why?

Why?

Why?

Why?

>> The interoperable Why?

>> The interoperable communication dilemma is one >> The interoperable communication dilemma is one that has existed to your point communication dilemma is one that has existed to your point before 9/11, and the tragic that has existed to your point before 9/11, and the tragic consequences were most vivid on before 9/11, and the tragic consequences were most vivid on 9/11.

consequences were most vivid on 9/11.

9/11.

9/11.

9/11.

Ultimately, a nationwide system, 9/11.

Ultimately, a nationwide system, I think, is the goal of all the Ultimately, a nationwide system, I think, is the goal of all the emergency responders, but it I think, is the goal of all the emergency responders, but it will take time to develop.

emergency responders, but it will take time to develop.

>> NARRATOR: Back in 2003, New will take time to develop.

>> NARRATOR: Back in 2003, New Orleans got a chance to upgrade >> NARRATOR: Back in 2003, New Orleans got a chance to upgrade its system.

Orleans got a chance to upgrade its system.

The city of new Orleans and its system.

The city of new Orleans and seven surrounding parishes won The city of new Orleans and seven surrounding parishes won a major federal grant to seven surrounding parishes won a major federal grant to operate an emergency a major federal grant to operate an emergency communications system.

operate an emergency communications system.

>> NARRATOR: It was big news: a communications system.

>> NARRATOR: It was big news: a $7 million grant from the >> NARRATOR: It was big news: a $7 million grant from the Department of Justice to build $7 million grant from the Department of Justice to build an interoperable communications Department of Justice to build an interoperable communications network.

an interoperable communications network.

Deputies from opposite network.

Deputies from opposite parishes will be able to Deputies from opposite parishes will be able to communicate with special parishes will be able to communicate with special radios.

communicate with special radios.

>> This is quite ambitious, but radios.

>> This is quite ambitious, but I think it reflects a >> This is quite ambitious, but I think it reflects a realization that we must I think it reflects a realization that we must encounter the risks that we face realization that we must encounter the risks that we face together if we are going to be encounter the risks that we face together if we are going to be successful.

together if we are going to be successful.

>> NARRATOR: The city was ready successful.

>> NARRATOR: The city was ready to build a network that would >> NARRATOR: The city was ready to build a network that would allow all existing first to build a network that would allow all existing first responder radios and phones to allow all existing first responder radios and phones to interconnect.

responder radios and phones to interconnect.

But big tech companies with interconnect.

But big tech companies with competing plans lobbied the But big tech companies with competing plans lobbied the mayor's office.

competing plans lobbied the mayor's office.

With no federal guidance, the mayor's office.

With no federal guidance, the project stalled.

With no federal guidance, the project stalled.

>> Smith: Why not just say, "You project stalled.

>> Smith: Why not just say, "You have to have such-and-such a >> Smith: Why not just say, "You have to have such-and-such a system in place in one year from have to have such-and-such a system in place in one year from now, and you've got to buy this system in place in one year from now, and you've got to buy this system to these specifications, now, and you've got to buy this system to these specifications, and that's the deal"?

system to these specifications, and that's the deal"?

>> We're... we're not going to and that's the deal"?

>> We're... we're not going to pick a vendor over another.

>> We're... we're not going to pick a vendor over another.

You can keep pressing me on this pick a vendor over another.

You can keep pressing me on this point as long as you want.

You can keep pressing me on this point as long as you want.

The fact of the matter is that point as long as you want.

The fact of the matter is that they're spending hundreds of The fact of the matter is that they're spending hundreds of millions of dollars to make they're spending hundreds of millions of dollars to make their systems interoperable.

millions of dollars to make their systems interoperable.

They've begun that process four their systems interoperable.

They've begun that process four years ago.

They've begun that process four years ago.

The process continues today.

years ago.

The process continues today.

And, in time, that is what will The process continues today.

And, in time, that is what will occur.

And, in time, that is what will occur.

It will not occur overnight, but occur.

It will not occur overnight, but there is sufficient intensity to It will not occur overnight, but there is sufficient intensity to this proposition that it will be there is sufficient intensity to this proposition that it will be done.

this proposition that it will be done.

>> Smith: The Public Safety done.

>> Smith: The Public Safety Wireless Network says that three >> Smith: The Public Safety Wireless Network says that three states-- Delaware, Michigan, Wireless Network says that three states-- Delaware, Michigan, North Carolina-- have mature or states-- Delaware, Michigan, North Carolina-- have mature or widespread interoperability.

North Carolina-- have mature or widespread interoperability.

>> Yup.

widespread interoperability.

>> Yup.

>> Smith: Well, if Delaware, >> Yup.

>> Smith: Well, if Delaware, Michigan, and North Carolina can >> Smith: Well, if Delaware, Michigan, and North Carolina can do it, why can't the rest of the Michigan, and North Carolina can do it, why can't the rest of the country do it?

do it, why can't the rest of the country do it?

>> It's a federal system of country do it?

>> It's a federal system of governance, and it's one of the >> It's a federal system of governance, and it's one of the challenges as you build a governance, and it's one of the challenges as you build a department and try to create, challenges as you build a department and try to create, not a federal capability, but a department and try to create, not a federal capability, but a national capability.

not a federal capability, but a national capability.

>> Well, that's baloney.

national capability.

>> Well, that's baloney.

We impose standards on airports.

>> Well, that's baloney.

We impose standards on airports.

We impose standards on We impose standards on airports.

We impose standards on interstate highways, on bridges.

We impose standards on interstate highways, on bridges.

We impose standards on harbors.

interstate highways, on bridges.

We impose standards on harbors.

We impose standards on almost We impose standards on harbors.

We impose standards on almost everything.

We impose standards on almost everything.

And the federal government, if everything.

And the federal government, if it's going to give out money, And the federal government, if it's going to give out money, has a right to demand standards.

it's going to give out money, has a right to demand standards.

And interoperability is one of has a right to demand standards.

And interoperability is one of those standards.

And interoperability is one of those standards.

And to say that somehow that those standards.

And to say that somehow that that is impinging on federalism And to say that somehow that that is impinging on federalism is, to use a polite word, that is impinging on federalism is, to use a polite word, baloney.

is, to use a polite word, baloney.

>> NARRATOR: Over the last three baloney.

>> NARRATOR: Over the last three years, the Department of >> NARRATOR: Over the last three years, the Department of Homeland Security has handed out years, the Department of Homeland Security has handed out $8.1 billion to the states.

Homeland Security has handed out $8.1 billion to the states.

They've bought everything from $8.1 billion to the states.

They've bought everything from bullhorns to HAZMAT suits to They've bought everything from bullhorns to HAZMAT suits to helicopters.

bullhorns to HAZMAT suits to helicopters.

>> There are no specific goals, helicopters.

>> There are no specific goals, no specific requirements, and no >> There are no specific goals, no specific requirements, and no plan to get from here to there.

no specific requirements, and no plan to get from here to there.

As a result we have cities that plan to get from here to there.

As a result we have cities that bought bulletproof vests for As a result we have cities that bought bulletproof vests for canine patrols... bought bulletproof vests for canine patrols... >> No!

canine patrols... >> No!

Sit!

>> No!

Sit!

>> So that we have dogs with Sit!

>> So that we have dogs with bulletproof vests.

>> So that we have dogs with bulletproof vests.

bulletproof vests.

bulletproof vests.

bulletproof vests.

We have cities that bought air- bulletproof vests.

We have cities that bought air- conditioned garbage trucks with We have cities that bought air- conditioned garbage trucks with Homeland Security money, without conditioned garbage trucks with Homeland Security money, without ever solving their Homeland Security money, without ever solving their communications problems.

ever solving their communications problems.

>> The Federal Government has communications problems.

>> The Federal Government has handed out a lot of money.

>> The Federal Government has handed out a lot of money.

In my personal opinion it has handed out a lot of money.

In my personal opinion it has handed out that money with far In my personal opinion it has handed out that money with far too few conditions on how the handed out that money with far too few conditions on how the state and local agencies spend too few conditions on how the state and local agencies spend it.

state and local agencies spend it.

it.

it.

it.

State and local agencies have it.

State and local agencies have the authority, under the State and local agencies have the authority, under the Constitution, to spend money as the authority, under the Constitution, to spend money as they wish on things they want to Constitution, to spend money as they wish on things they want to buy.

they wish on things they want to buy.

Attention, citizens of New buy.

Attention, citizens of New Orleans.

Attention, citizens of New Orleans.

Be advised that the Superdome Orleans.

Be advised that the Superdome and Convention Center have been Be advised that the Superdome and Convention Center have been closed.

and Convention Center have been closed.

>> That's the deal in a federal closed.

>> That's the deal in a federal governance system.

>> That's the deal in a federal governance system.

That, unfortunately, is governance system.

That, unfortunately, is federalism.

That, unfortunately, is federalism.

>> NARRATOR: It wasn't until day federalism.

>> NARRATOR: It wasn't until day six of the disaster that the >> NARRATOR: It wasn't until day six of the disaster that the federal government flexed its six of the disaster that the federal government flexed its muscle.

federal government flexed its muscle.

7,000 troops from the 82nd muscle.

7,000 troops from the 82nd airborne and 1st cavalry 7,000 troops from the 82nd airborne and 1st cavalry divisions under the command of airborne and 1st cavalry divisions under the command of General Russell Honore hit the divisions under the command of General Russell Honore hit the ground.

General Russell Honore hit the ground.

ground.

ground.

ground.

The situation began to improve.

ground.

The situation began to improve.

>> I really believe the most The situation began to improve.

>> I really believe the most serious mistake that I made was >> I really believe the most serious mistake that I made was not just saying, "Look, we just serious mistake that I made was not just saying, "Look, we just can't get this done by not just saying, "Look, we just can't get this done by ourselves; let's go ahead and can't get this done by ourselves; let's go ahead and get all these troops in here ourselves; let's go ahead and get all these troops in here now.

get all these troops in here now.

now.

now.

now.

Let's don't get 500 troops to now.

Let's don't get 500 troops to come in here and help with Let's don't get 500 troops to come in here and help with distribution.

come in here and help with distribution.

Let's get 10,000 troops in here distribution.

Let's get 10,000 troops in here and do something."

Let's get 10,000 troops in here and do something."

>> White-two, white-two, white- and do something."

>> White-two, white-two, white- five.

>> White-two, white-two, white- five.

>> NARRATOR: The Louisiana five.

>> NARRATOR: The Louisiana National Guard had been >> NARRATOR: The Louisiana National Guard had been overwhelmed.

National Guard had been overwhelmed.

Not only was its headquarters overwhelmed.

Not only was its headquarters flooded, but 35% of its soldiers Not only was its headquarters flooded, but 35% of its soldiers were on duty in Iraq and flooded, but 35% of its soldiers were on duty in Iraq and Afghanistan.

were on duty in Iraq and Afghanistan.

>> Americans have every right to Afghanistan.

>> Americans have every right to expect a more effective response >> Americans have every right to expect a more effective response in a time of emergency.

expect a more effective response in a time of emergency.

>> NARRATOR: Two weeks after in a time of emergency.

>> NARRATOR: Two weeks after Katrina, President Bush >> NARRATOR: Two weeks after Katrina, President Bush addressed the nation from New Katrina, President Bush addressed the nation from New Orleans.

addressed the nation from New Orleans.

>> It is now clear that a Orleans.

>> It is now clear that a challenge on this scale requires >> It is now clear that a challenge on this scale requires greater federal authority and a challenge on this scale requires greater federal authority and a broader role for the armed greater federal authority and a broader role for the armed forces, the institution of our broader role for the armed forces, the institution of our government most capable of forces, the institution of our government most capable of massive logistical operations on government most capable of massive logistical operations on a moment's notice.

massive logistical operations on a moment's notice.

>> NARRATOR: In his speech he a moment's notice.

>> NARRATOR: In his speech he called for all federal, state, >> NARRATOR: In his speech he called for all federal, state, and local agencies to review called for all federal, state, and local agencies to review their performance.

and local agencies to review their performance.

>> This government will learn their performance.

>> This government will learn the lessons of Hurricane >> This government will learn the lessons of Hurricane Katrina.

the lessons of Hurricane Katrina.

>> NARRATOR: Military planners Katrina.

>> NARRATOR: Military planners are now considering setting up a >> NARRATOR: Military planners are now considering setting up a permanent rapid reaction unit are now considering setting up a permanent rapid reaction unit designed to respond to domestic permanent rapid reaction unit designed to respond to domestic disasters.

designed to respond to domestic disasters.

The price tag has not yet been disasters.

The price tag has not yet been determined.

The price tag has not yet been determined.

Meanwhile, plans have been drawn determined.

Meanwhile, plans have been drawn up to further reduce FEMA.

Meanwhile, plans have been drawn up to further reduce FEMA.

In June, 2005, two months before up to further reduce FEMA.

In June, 2005, two months before Katrina, Director Michael Brown In June, 2005, two months before Katrina, Director Michael Brown sat down to write a memo to the Katrina, Director Michael Brown sat down to write a memo to the number-two official at Homeland sat down to write a memo to the number-two official at Homeland Security.

number-two official at Homeland Security.

"This is to express serious Security.

"This is to express serious concerns about the direction "This is to express serious concerns about the direction this is taking emergency concerns about the direction this is taking emergency management in this nation," this is taking emergency management in this nation," Brown wrote.

management in this nation," Brown wrote.

"The proposed organizational Brown wrote.

"The proposed organizational structure is doomed to fail.

"The proposed organizational structure is doomed to fail.

I don't want to see us fail this structure is doomed to fail.

I don't want to see us fail this president or the nation."

I don't want to see us fail this president or the nation."

>> This latest reorganization president or the nation."

>> This latest reorganization that Secretary Chertoff has >> This latest reorganization that Secretary Chertoff has suggested, FEMA loses more that Secretary Chertoff has suggested, FEMA loses more stature.

suggested, FEMA loses more stature.

FEMA becomes an office.

stature.

FEMA becomes an office.

And not just that, it loses all FEMA becomes an office.

And not just that, it loses all of the preparedness functions.

And not just that, it loses all of the preparedness functions.

And FEMA becomes a very small of the preparedness functions.

And FEMA becomes a very small response recovery mitigation And FEMA becomes a very small response recovery mitigation organization.

response recovery mitigation organization.

>> NARRATOR: But on October 18, organization.

>> NARRATOR: But on October 18, President Bush signed the order >> NARRATOR: But on October 18, President Bush signed the order to take responsibility for President Bush signed the order to take responsibility for preparedness out of FEMA.

to take responsibility for preparedness out of FEMA.

preparedness out of FEMA.

preparedness out of FEMA.

preparedness out of FEMA.

As everyone struggles to answer preparedness out of FEMA.

As everyone struggles to answer questions about Katrina, the As everyone struggles to answer questions about Katrina, the storm's lesson remains clear: questions about Katrina, the storm's lesson remains clear: the high cost of being storm's lesson remains clear: the high cost of being unprepared.

the high cost of being unprepared.

>> It came up pretty fast.

unprepared.

>> It came up pretty fast.

Been pretty ineffective in my >> It came up pretty fast.

Been pretty ineffective in my vertical evacuation.

Been pretty ineffective in my vertical evacuation.

Oh, look, there's someone vertical evacuation.

Oh, look, there's someone swimming around outside, going Oh, look, there's someone swimming around outside, going to get in my tree.

swimming around outside, going to get in my tree.

Who's that?

to get in my tree.

Who's that?

It's my neighbor, apparently.

Who's that?

It's my neighbor, apparently.

What the hell's he doing It's my neighbor, apparently.

What the hell's he doing swimming down the block?

What the hell's he doing swimming down the block?

Can't imagine what this guy's swimming down the block?

Can't imagine what this guy's doing out.

Can't imagine what this guy's doing out.

Well... doing out.

Well... ) Frontline... Frontline... >> Spontaneous healing.

Frontline... >> Spontaneous healing.

Alternative medicine.

>> Spontaneous healing.

Alternative medicine.

>> Coffee enemas.

Alternative medicine.

>> Coffee enemas.

It's a $48 billion business.

>> Coffee enemas.

It's a $48 billion business.

>> The American people demanded It's a $48 billion business.

>> The American people demanded it.

>> The American people demanded it.

>> I feel good.

it.

>> I feel good.

I feel better than I've ever >> I feel good.

I feel better than I've ever felt.

I feel better than I've ever felt.

But do the alternatives work?

felt.

But do the alternatives work?

>> There's no evidence for it.

But do the alternatives work?

>> There's no evidence for it.

We think that's pseudo-science.

>> There's no evidence for it.

We think that's pseudo-science.

And are they safe?

We think that's pseudo-science.

And are they safe?

>> Do you think the average And are they safe?

>> Do you think the average American realizes that the >> Do you think the average American realizes that the herbal supplement they're American realizes that the herbal supplement they're picking up does not have to herbal supplement they're picking up does not have to prove that it's safe?

picking up does not have to prove that it's safe?

The Alternative Fix.

prove that it's safe?

The Alternative Fix.

Frontline.

Captioned by Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org