>>> MAJOR FUNDING FOR CHAT BOX WITH DAVID CRUZ IS PROVIDED BY THE MEMBERS OF THE NNG NJ ASSOCIATION.

NJM INSURANCE GROUP, SERVING THE INSURANCE NEEDS OF NEW JERSEY RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES FOR MORE THAN 100 YEARS.

PROMOTIONAL SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY INSIDER NJ, DEDICATED TO NEW JERSEY POLITICAL NEWS.

INSIDER NJ IS COMMITTED TO GIVING SERIOUS POLITICAL PLAYERS AN INTERACTIVE FORUM FOR IDEAS, DISCUSSION, AND INCITE.

ONLINE AT INSIDER NJ.COM.

>>> HI, EVERYBODY.

WELCOME TO CHAT BOX.

I'M DAVID CRUZ.

WE BEGIN TODAY BY NOTING THAT TWITTER HAS BEEN BUZZING THIS WEEK.

REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES IN THE MIDTERMS BOYCOTTING NEW JERSEY'S PRESS FOR BEING UNFAIR.

SO IT'S A PLEASURE TO SEE TWO REPUBLICANS HERE AMONG THE MANY WHO VISIT WITH US BY THE WAY.

JOINING US ARE SENATOR JOHN BRAMNICK AND CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE, PHIL RIZZO.

THANK YOU FOR SITTING WITH US TODAY.

PHIL, YOU TWEETED WITH ME WHEN I SAID TWO REPUBLICANS WOULD BE ON THE SHOW THIS WEEK.

I'M QUOTING YOU, SAYS, DON'T GET TOO EXCITED, DAVID, I ASSURE YOU, IT'S ONLY ONE REPUBLICAN.

I ASSUME YOU WEREN'T TALKING ABOUT YOURSELF HERE.

ARE YOU SAYING JOHN IS NOT A REPUBLICAN?

>> WE'RE INCREASINGLY MOVING TOWARDS A ONE-PARTY SYSTEM HERE IN NEW JERSEY.

THERE'S VERY LITTLE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN NEW JERSEY DEMOCRATS AND ESTABLISHMENT AND REPUBLICANS.

SO I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT THESE DIFFERENCES.

BUT AS YOU REPLIED, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE SORT OF PRESHOW EXPOSURE WE'RE TRYING TO TALK ABOUT.

WE WANT TO BRING PEOPLE TO THIS CONVERSATION.

WE WANT PEOPLE TO HEAR BOTH SIDES BECAUSE THIS IS CERTAINLY A BIG ISSUE FOR THE DIRECTION OF OUR STATE AND OUR COUNTRY.

>> SO IS JOHN BRAMNICK A REPUBLICAN OR NOT?

>> I'LL TELL YOU, HIS VOTES AND HIS POSITIONING DOES NOT ALIGN WITH TA ADDITIONAL REPUBLICAN VALUES.

NO.

>> JOHN, IS PHIL RIZZO A ARE EP?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

I HAVEN'T STUDIED PHIL'S RECORD, BUT I CAN TELL YOU THIS.

THAT IF WE DON'T EXPAND OUR PARTY IN NEW JERSEY, WE'RE GOING TO BE PERPETUALLY IN THE MINORITY.

SO A LOT OF US IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, WE DON'T AGREE ON EVERYTHING, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE SHOULDN'T BE IN THE SAME PARTY.

LET ME SAY THIS, OVER 75% OF THE PEOPLE IN NEW JERSEY ARE REGISTERED DEMOCRATS OR INDEPENDENTS.

IF THERE'S A WITNESS TEST FOR REPUBLICANS AND WE CONTINUE TO DWINDLE THE SIZE OF OUR PARTY, WE'LL CONTINUE TO BE IN THE MINORITY.

SO MY OPINION IS, LOOK, IF PEOPLE BELIEVE IN LOWER TAXES, WE HAVE A STRONG STAND ON CRIME, WE BELIEVE THAT FIRST AND SECOND GRADERS SHOULDN'T BE TAUGHT GENDER IDENTITY, THERE'S A WHOLE BUNCH OF ISSUES WE AGREE ON.

BUT I UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENS IS PEOPLE IN OUR PARTY WHO SAY IF THEY'RE NOT LIKE ME, THEY SHOULDN'T BE IN THE PARTY.

THAT'S A MAJOR MISTAKE, I BELIEVE.

>> I WANT TO GET TO SOME CORE BELIEFS IN A SECOND.

LET'S GET TO THE 800 POUND GORILLA IN THE ROOM WITH THE STATE'S REPUBLICAN PARTY, AND THAT'S DONALD TRUMP.

HE'S REALLY REDEFINED REPUBLICANISM IN THE COUNTRY AND IN THE STATE OBVIOUSLY.

MY QUESTION FOR YOU, PHIL, IS ARE YOU A TRUMP REPUBLICAN?

>> I'LL SAY THIS.

I DON'T THINK DONALD TRUMP REDEFINED WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A REPUBLICAN.

I THINK HE RE-ESTABLISHED IT, AND I HAVE NO PROBLEM BEING IDENTIFIED AS A TRUMP REPUBLICAN, BUT EVERYONE WANTS TO ASSIGN TRUMP TO IT.

IT'S TRADITIONAL REPUBLICAN VALUES.

IT'S MAKING AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.

>> JOHN, I ASSUME THAT YOU'RE NOT A TRUMP REPUBLICAN.

WE'VE HAD THAT CONVERSATION BEFORE.

BUT JOHN BRAMNICK IS A WHAT REPUBLICAN?

FILL IN THE BLANK.

>> THE HISTORY OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

WE HAD GEORGE W. BUSH, HIS DAD, WE HAD RONALD REAGAN.

WE'VE HAD MULTIPLE PRESIDENTS, SO I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BE LABELED AS ONE INDIVIDUAL'S DECISION-MAKING POSITION SUCH AS DONALD TRUMP.

WE HAVE A BIG TEN PARTY, AND I CAN TELL YOU THIS.

THERE ARE MANY INDEPENDENTS AND DEMOCRATS WHO WOULD VOTE FOR REPUBLICANS IF THEY FELT THEY TRUSTED THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

WHEN YOU SEE JANUARY 6th, YOU SEE ELECTION DENIERS, THAT HURTS OUR CREDIBILITY AS REPUBLICANS.

IF WE CONTINUE DOWN A ROAD WHERE WE DISRESPECT THE FBI, DISRESPECT COURT DECISION ON WHETHER OR NOT JOE BIDEN IS THE PRESIDENT, WE WILL LOSE GROUND IN NEW JERSEY.

AS REPUBLICANS, WE ALSO HAVE TO RESPECT THE COURTS AND THE LAW, AND IF WE DON'T DO THAT, WE'LL NEVER WIN THE TRUST OF THOSE INDEPENDENT VOTERS.

THEY DON'T REALLY LIKE PHIL MURPHY, AND THEY DON'T REALLY LIKE JOE BIDEN, BUT THEY DON'T KNOW IF THEY CAN TRUST US.

AND MR. RIZZO SAYS, THERE'S ONLY ONE KIND OF REPUBLICAN.

THAT DOESN'T REALLY BUILD TRUST IN THE VOTERS WHO AREN'T REGISTERED REPUBLICANS.

>> HE TOUCHED ON A COUPLE OF THINGS THERE.

2020 PARTICULARLY AND JANUARY 6th.

LET ME ASK YOU THE FIRST PART OF THAT.

ARE YOU SATISFIED THAT THE 2020 ELECTION IS SETTLED BUSINESS AND THAT JOE BIDEN IS PRESIDENT LEGITIMATELY OF THE UNITED STATES?

>> I'M NOT AN ATTORNEY.

I'M NOT A JUDGE.

I'VE NOT VIEWED ALL OF THE EVIDENCE, AND I'M NOT GOING TO LITIGATE IT ON A SHORT CONVERSATION HERE ABOUT THE DIRECTION OF OUR PARTY.

BUT WHERE I DON'T LIVE, I DON'T LIVE IN A PLACE WHERE I'M NOT ALLOWED TO BELIEVE WHAT I SEE.

AND WHAT I SAW TIME AND TIME AGAIN THROUGH THE 2020 ELECTION WERE BALLOT STUFFERS WITH THESE DROP BOXES, AND I'M NOT GOING TO BE TOLD I'M NOT ALLOWED TO SPEAK MY MIND OR -- >> THAT'S ACTUALLY WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO IS GET YOU TO SPEAK YOUR MIND.

IT'S A YES OR NO.

ARE YOU IN A GRAY AREA WHERE YOU'RE SAYING YOU DON'T KNOW IF 2020 WAS A LEGITIMATELY RUN ELECTION.

>> I DON'T KNOW THAT 2020 WAS A LEGITIMATELY RUN ELECTION.

UNIVERSAL MAIL-INS?

THAT'S NOT AMERICA.

WE GO TO POLLS ON ONE DAY AND WE VOTE.

WE DID NOT DO THAT IN 2020.

>> AND JOHN BRAMNICK BROUGHT UP JANUARY 6th.

WHAT WAS THAT IN YOUR MIND?

WHAT DID YOU SEE THAT DAY?

>> I WASN'T THERE.

I DID NOT ATTEND.

I HAD SOME PLANS WITH SOME PASTOR PREND FRENDS OF MINE TO GO.

I DIDN'T GO.

>> YOU MUST HAVE SEEN SOME OF THE CONCH ON TELEVISION.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND I'VE SEEN MULTIPLE SHOTS OF RIOTERS BEATING ON THE DOORS OF THE CAPITOL.

I HAVE SEEN THAT.

AND I'VE ALSO SEEN CAPITOL HILL POLICE OPEN DOORS FROM THE INSIDE AND LET PEOPLE PEACEFULLY WALK IN TO PAINT JANUARY 6th WITH A BROAD BRUSH AND MAKE IT A TOPIC OF DISCUSSION IS DISINGENUOUS.

LIKE I SAID, I VOICED MY OPINION.

I HAVE OPINIONS ON A HARD LINE ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

I LOOK, I EXAMINE, AND I SPEAK.

>> JOHN, DID YOU SEE SHADES OF NUANCE THAT PHIL RIZZO IS TALKING ABOUT WHEN I COMES TO JANUARY 6th?

>> NONE.

POLICE OFFICERS WERE ATTACKED.

IN MY JUDGMENT, WE SHOULD BE ON THE SIDE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND POLICE OFFICERS AND TO BREAK DOWN THE WALLS OR THE DOORS OF THE CAPITOL IS NOT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY I WANT TO BE A PART OF.

>> I AGREE WITH THAT.

I AGREE WITH THAT.

AND THERE'S FOUR SIDES TO THE BUILDING, AND NO DOUBT, THOSE THING THAT IS JOHN SPOKE OF WERE HAPPENING, BUT THERE WAS A LOT OF OTHER THINGS THAT WERE HAPPENING THERE WHICH TELL A MORE COMPLETE STORY.

>> ALL RIGHT.

I WANT TO GET TO THIS WHOLE QUESTION OF THE JERSEY MIDTERMS AND TWO REPUBLICANS PARTICULARLY, TOM CANE AND PAUL DEGRUT THERE, CANDIDATES FOR CONGRESS.

THEY SAY THEY'RE BOYCOTTING NEW JERSEY PRESS BECAUSE WE'RE BIASED.

A, IS THE NEW JERSEY PRESS BIASED AGAINST REPUBLICANS, AND B, SHOULDN'T THE CANDIDATE FOR CONGRESS TALK TO AT THE MINIMUM, THE STATE'S LARGEST NEWSPAPER AND ITS STATEWIDE PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION?

LET'S START WITH YOU, JOHN.

>> I CAN TELL YOU THAT I DO BELIEVE THAT GENERALLY THE MEDIA IS HARDER ON REPUBLICANS, AND I'VE BEEN IN THIS BUSINESS FOR A WHILE.

AND THE QUESTIONS I GET TEND TO BE TOUGHER, AND I DON'T THINK THERE'S MUCH DOUBT THAT MOST OF THE MEMBERS OF MEDIA ARE NOT CARD CARRYING REPUBLICANS.

SO THERE IS A BUILT-IN BIASED, BUT I'M WILLING TO STEP UP, ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS, AND HOPE THAT THE PUBLIC MAKES THE DECISION.

BUT, NO, I THINK THERE'S NO QUESTION THE MEDIA SLANTS TO THE LEFT.

>> PHIL, ENOUGH OF A BIAS TO BOYCOTT NEW JERSEY MEDIA?

>> I SHY AWAY FROM NO DEBATE.

YOU MENTIONED TOM CANE NOT TALKING TO THE PRESS.

TOM CANE WOULDN'T EVEN TALK TO ME.

I WAS A CANDIDATE IN THAT PRIMARY.

WE ASKED FOR A DEBATE APPROXIMATELY A DOZEN TIMES.

HE WOULDN'T TALK TO ME, SO I CERTAINLY DON'T EXPECT HIM TO TALK TO THE PRESS.

BUT YEAH, ABSOLUTELY, THERE'S A BIAS IN NEW JERSEY TOWARDS THE LEFT, NO DOUBT.

WE HAD PUT OUT PRESS RELEASES DURING OUR CAMPAIGN.

WE HAD PUT OUT PRESS RELEASES DURING OUR CAMPAIGN.

SO NO DOUBT, BUT STILL EVEN WITH THAT, I'LL TALK TO ANYBODY, ANYWHERE ABOUT ANY TOPIC.

>> IS IT YOUR OPINION THAT WHEN YOU SEND A PRESS RELEASE, THEY SHOULD RUN IT WITHOUT ANY EDITS TO THE PRESS?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THEY CAN COMMENT ON THE PRESS RELEASE, BUT THE PRESS RELEASE SHOULD BE PUT OUT FROM A CAMPAIGN IN ITS ENTIRETY.

IF THEY WANT TO MAKE COMMENTS SHREDDING IT AND REFUTING IT, THAT'S THEIR BUSINESS.

IT'S THEIR PAPER, BUT THEY SHOULDN'T REWRITE MY PRESS RELEASE.

>> WELL, IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A DIFFERENCE, BUT THEN WE WOULD BE REALLY GETTING INTO THE WEEDS.

LET ME MOVE ON.

I'LL STAY WITH YOU, PHIL, YOUR PARTY HAS ONE BLACK LAWMAKER IN THE LEGISLATURE.

I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY LATINOS EXACTLY, BUT IT'S NOT A LOT.

DO YOU THINK THAT'S A PROBLEM?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, I'M A RIGHT-LANE CONSERVATIVE, BUT MY CAMPAIGNS I RAN AS A POP EWE LIST.

I SPENT ALMOST A DECADE PASTORING IN DEEP BLUE HUDSON COUNTY.

WE STARTED TWO CHURCHES.

OUR CHURCHES LOOK LIKE THE UNITED NATIONS.

WE HAD EVERY RACE IMAGINABLE IN OUR CHURCH, AND YEAH, I THINK THAT THAT IS A PROBLEM WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

NATIONALLY, I BELIEVE IT'S EXPANDING, BUT NOT SO MUCH HERE IN NEW JERSEY.

I THINK WE HAVE TO DO A MUCH BETTER JOB OF THAT.

>> JOHN, HE SAYS HE'S GOT A MULTICULTURAL BASE, BUT HE HASN'T WON AN ELECTION YET.

YOU'VE WON SEVERAL ELECTIONS.

YOUR PARTY STILL HAS ONE LEGISLATURE IN THE PARTY WHO'S BLACK.

THAT'S ABYSMAL, IS IT NOT?

>> THAT IS UNFORTUNATE.

AND IF WE DON'T EXPAND OUR PARTY AND HAVE A BIGGER TENT AND NOT EXCLUDE PEOPLE, WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE DOWN A PATH -- >> LET ME INTERRUPT YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE SUGGESTING BY -- YOU'RE SUGGESTING RIGHT NOW THAT -- HINTING THAT THE PERSON WHO'S EXCLUDING OTHERS IS THE GUY YOU'RE TALKING TO NOW, PHIL RIZZO.

>> I THINK IF YOU'RE HARSH, YOU'RE ANGRY, AND YOU SAY THESE PEOPLE ARE 100% WRONG AND I'M 100% RIGHT AND THAT GUY SHOULDN'T BE A REPUBLICAN.

I'M GOING TO TELL YOU.

PEOPLE WHO LISTEN TO THESE THINGS WANT TO SEE EMPATHY, WANT TO SEE UNDERSTANDING, AND IF WE DON'T DO THAT AS A PARTY, WE ARE GOING TO SHRINK.

THERE ARE A LOT OF DIFFERENT VIEWS.

THERE ARE DIFFERENT VIEWS IN MY FAMILY.

I DON'T EXCLUDE MY DAUGHTER OR MY WIFE BECAUSE WE'RE FAMILY.

IF WE DON'T SHOW THAT KIND OF EMPATHY TO PEOPLE IN NEW JERSEY, WE WILL END WITHOUT FURTHER INCLUSION AND A SMALLER TENT.

I'M VERY WORRIED ABOUT THAT.

THEY HAVE TO FEEL THAT WE ARE OPEN MINDED, WE TRY TO UNDERSTAND, WE'RE NOT HATEFUL AND THAT WE TAKE ALL COMERS.

>> PHIL, YOU HAVE TWEETED SOME REALLY PROVOCATIVE THINGS ABOUT THE BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT AS WELL AS TRANSPEOPLE ACROSS THE STATE THAT SOME AT THE VERY LEAST HAVE SUGGESTED ARE INTOLERANT.

AND AS YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE BEEN CALLED A RACIST AND WORSE.

HOW DO YOU THEN TRY AND SAY THAT YOU WANT TO RECRUIT PEOPLE TO THE PARTY AND THAT YOU WANT TO EXPAND THE PARTY'S BASE WHEN SOME OF YOUR VERY RHETORIC IS REALLY ANTIBLACK AND ANTI-GAY.

>> IT'S NOT ANTIBLACK AND IT'S NOT ANTI-GAY.

IT'S ANTIEVIL.

BLM, WHEN THEY SHOWED UP ON THE SCENE, EVERYBODY THOUGHT IT WAS ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE.

IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH BLACK PEOPLE.

AND I WILL CALL IT OUT.

JOHN SAID WE DON'T TEACH OUR CHILDREN TO FIGHT, WE TEACH THEM HOW TO COMPROMISE.

THAT'S OPPOSITE.

I THINK WE OUGHT TO FIGHT MARKSISM.

I THINK WE OUGHT TO FIGHT EVIL.

WE DON'T COMPROMISE ON TAXES AND PAVING ROADS AND DECENT DIALOGUE, BUT WE DO FIGHT AGAINST THOSE THAT TRY TO CRUSH OUR SMALL BUSINESSES, THOSE THAT KILL OUR ELDERLY, THOSE THAT TRY TO PERVERT AND POLLUTE OUR CHILDREN'S MINDS, THOSE THAT WANT TO CALL PARENTS THE PROBLEM AND NOT THE RADICAL LEFT.

YEAH, WE BELIEVE THAT WE OUGHT TO FIGHT THOSE THINGS AND NOT BE AFRAID TO SPEAK OUR MINDS.

LISTEN.

I'M GOING TO BE CALLED NAMES NO MATTER WHAT, BUT I ALSO HAVE ENOUGH COURAGE AND STRENGTH TO BE ABLE TO SAY, GIVE IT ENOUGH TIME, THE EVIDENCE WILL COME OUT.

BLM WAS DESIGNED TO DISSOLVE AND DESTROY THE NUCLEAR FAMILY.

>> ALL RIGHT.

LET ME ASK JOHN IF HE AGREES WITH THAT.

>> WELL, THERE'S TWO WAYS TO SPEAK YOUR MIND.

YOU CAN DO IT IN A STATESMAN LIKE WAY, YOU CAN TRY TO RECRUIT MORE PEOPLE TO THE PARTY, TRY TO CONVINCE PEOPLE OF YOUR IDEAS.

JUST BEING MAD IS NOT A STRATEGY.

JUST BEING ANGRY.

FIGHTING THOUGH IS NOT NECESSARILY BEING ANG ARE I.

IT'S TRYING TO DEVELOP A STRATEGY WHERE WE WIN.

>> LET ME ASK YOU, PHIL, WHAT THE DIFFERENCES ARE BETWEEN YOUR VIEW OF ABORTION AND WHAT YOU UNDERSTAND JOHN'S VIEW OF ABORTION TO BE.

>> AS A BIBLE BELIEVER, AS SOMEBODY THAT ADHERES TO CHRISTIANITY AS VIEWED FOR THE LAST 2,000 YEARS, HUMAN LIFE BEGINS IN THE WOMB.

I BELIEVE THAT.

I AM PRO-LIFE FRO M CONCEPTION.

>> WHAT RESTRICTIONS WOULD YOU PLACE ON ABORTION?

>> I DON'T BELIEVE ABORTION IS AN OPTION EXCEPT IN ONE CASE WHEN THE MOTHER'S LIFE IS IN JEOPARDY, AND HONESTLY, I KNOW SOME PEOPLE WITHIN THE EVANGELICAL COMMUNITY THAT HAPPEN TO DISAGREE WITH ME ON THAT.

BUT MY POSITION IS PRO-LIFE FROM CONCEPTION WITH RESTRICTING, STOPPING THE BEATING OF A HUMAN HEART.

UNLESS MOM'S BEATING HEART IS A REAL SERIOUS TRUTH, THEN I BELIEVE ABORTION IS WRONG.

>> JOHN, HOW MUCH DO YOU AGREE AND/OR DISAGREE WITH THAT?

>> I DISAGREE WITH ALMOST ALL OF IT, EXCEPT THE PART WHERE HE SAID TO SAVE THE MOTHER'S LIFE.

THAT'S ABOUT THE ONLY AGREEMENT.

A LATE-TERM ABORTION, I THINK IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM.

SOME OF THE BILLS THAT THE DEMOCRATS HAVE POSTED, I DISAGREE WITH.

BUT THIS IS A PERSONAL CHOICE FOR WOMEN, AND CLEARLY, RAPE AND INCEST SURELY SHOULD BE AN EXCEPTION, AND I HAVE BEEN A PRO-CHOICE REPUBLICAN WITHIN REASONABLE STANDARDS BECAUSE I BELIEVE IT'S THE WOMAN'S DECISION AND NOT NECESSARILY GOVERNMENT'S DECISION.

I'VE ALWAYS BEEN LIKE THAT, AND I DISAGREE WITH THE OVERTURNING OF ROE VERSUS WADE.

>> I WANT TO GO QUICKLY TO THE SEX-ED CURRICULUM SUGGESTIONS THAT HAVE REALLY BECOME A BIG ISSUE IN THESE MIDTERMS.

PHIL, YOU SAID THAT THE SEX-ED SUGGESTIONS YOU HAD SEEN, YOU CALLED IT CURRICULUM, BUT IT'S NOT OFFICIALLY CURRICULUM.

BUT YOU SAID IT WAS GROOMING OUR KIDS FOR FUTURE PERVERSE PURPOSES.

DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I BELIEVE THAT.

THE STANDARDS THAT ARE GIVEN, AND WE HAD A 12-HOUR EVENT, A LIVE EVENT WHERE WE HAD MANY MEMBERS OF THE UNANIMOUSLY NJ LEGISLATURE JOIN US TO EXPRESS THEIR CONCERNS.

ONE IN PARTICULAR WHERE SENATOR JOE PINNACHIO PUT IN AN AMENDMENT TO SAY A 6-YEAR-OLD SHOULD NOT BE TAUGHT SPECIFIC SEX ACTS.

IT WAS VOTED DOWN ON PARTY LINES.

THAT'S DISGUSTING.

I'M NOT AFRAID TO SAY IT, AND I ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE THAT AN AGENDA TO TEACH A 6-YEAR-OLD SPECIFIC SEX ACTS IS GROOMING FOR FUTURE PERVERSION.

ABSOLUTELY.

>> JOHN, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HAS COME THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE AND HAS BEEN HOTLY DEBATED.

DO YOU AGREE WITH PHIL THAT THE SEX-ED CURRICULUM IS GROOMING OUR KIDS FOR FUTURE PERVERSE PURPOSES?

>> NO.

I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY INTENT THERE, BUT I THINK IT'S BAD PUBLIC POLICY TO TEACH GENDER IDENTITY IN THE FIRST AND SECOND GRADE.

WE HAD SEX EDUCATION GROWING UP IN JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL OR HIGH SCHOOL.

BUT CLEARLY -- THESE KIND OF ISSUES CLEARLY ARE FOR PARENTS.

S IN NOT A DEMOCRAT/REPUBLICAN ISSUE.

IT'S WAY TO EARLY TO BE TEACHING SOME OF THE GENDER IDENTITY IN FIRST GRADE.

IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE, AND I HEAR THAT FROM PARENTS ACROSS THE BOARD.

THAT'S A SERIOUS MISTAKE, BUT IS THERE SOME INTENT ON BEHALF OF GOVERNMENT?

I HEAR THESE CONSPIRACY STORIES ALL THE TYPE, GOVERNMENT HAS THIS OVERALL PLAN.

LOOK.

I DON'T EVEN THINK GOVERNMENT CAN GET ORGANIZED ENOUGH TO HAVE A PLAN LIKE THAT TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.

THERE'S NOT LIKE THIS ONE ORGANIZATION OF GOVERNMENT THAT GETS TOGETHER AND HAS A CONSPIRACY.

I THINK IT'S PEOPLE WHO FIND CONSPIRACIES.

BUT IT'S BAD PUBLIC POLICY.

>> WHAT BOTHERS YOU MOST ABOUT THE OTHER GUY'S VIEWS?

LET ME START WITH YOU FIRST, PHIL.

>> LIKE I SAID, WE'RE BECOMING A UNIPARTY, AND THE ATTACK IS ON PEOPLE WHO STANDARD CONSERVATIVE TRADITIONAL AMERICAN VALUES.

THERE'S PLENTY OF QUOTES FLYING AROUND THERE WITH ALL THESE VARIOUS SPEECHES.

THERE'S QUOTES COMING OUT FROM BIDEN'S SPEECH WITH THAT EERY BLACK AND RED BACKGROUND.

THERE'S A QUOTE THAT I READ, I DEEPLY BELIEVE OUR DEMOCRACY IS UNDER ATTACK FROM WITHIN.

THAT WASN'T FROM THE JOE BIDEN SPEECH.

THAT WAS FROM JOHN.

AND THAT WAS FROM JOHN WHEN HE WAS STANDING NEXT TO GOVERNOR MURPHY SUPPORTING THIS CURRICULUM AND TALKING ABOUT HOW WE CAN'T FIGHT THESE THINGS.

WE NEED TO COMPROMISE.

SO MY POSITION AND MY PROBLEM IS AGAIN, AS I MENTIONED, WE ARE MOVED TO THE MIDDLE TO THIS INDEPENDENT VOTER.

THAT VOTING BASE IS NOT THERE.

IF IT WAS TRUE, JACK WOULD BE THE GOVERNOR RIGHT NOW.

HE'S NOT BECAUSE THAT VOTE BASE IS NOT THERE.

THOSE INDEPENDENT VOTERS ARE DISENFRANCHISED CONSERVATIVES THAT WANT NO PART OF THE NJOP OR ARE APPREHENSIVE TO POLITICS.

I THINK WE OUGHT TO SECURE OUR BASE, AND ONCE WE DO, THEN WE TRY TO BUILD AND ADD MORE PEOPLE TO OUR BUCKET.

JOHN AND I AGREE THAT WE NEED TO EXPAND OUR PARTY'S TENT, BUT YOU DON'T EXPAND A TENT BY MOVING THE TENT.

YOU SECURE YOUR BASE, AND THEN MAKE THE TENT BIGGER.

I THINK THE NJGOP IS GOING ABOUT IT THE RIGHT WAY.

THEY'RE LIGHTING THE CHRISTMAS TREE IN THE CORNER ON DECEMBER 25th, WE LOOK AT IT, IT HOUSES OUR PRESENCE, BUT THAT CHRISTMAS TREE IS DEAD.

IT DIED BACK IN NOVEMBER WHEN IT WAS CUT DOWN.

EVEN THOUGH IT LOOKS PRET THANK YOU, THAT'S THE NJGOP.

THEY'RE STANDING THERE, BUT THEY ARE DEAD ON ARILE.

THAT'S WHY JOHN IS HITCHING TO MURPHY BECAUSE HE KNOWS IT'S DEAD ON ARRIVAL.

>> ALL RIGHT.

JOHN, ARE YOU -- PHIL MURPHY?

>> WELL, FIRST, THE GOVERNOR AND I WORKED TOGETHER TO DO SOME FUNDING FOR A SCHOOL AND FOR SCHOOLS IN MY DISTRICT.

THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS I ADVOCATE FOR.

JUST BECAUSE A GOVERNOR IS A GOVERNOR OF ANOTHER PARTY, WE STILL HAVE TO DEAL WITH THEM AND NOT SIMPLY ATTACK THEM.

THAT DOESN'T WORK.

>> I WANTED TO GIVE YOU AN OPPORTUNITY TO ANSWER.

WHAT MY QUESTION WAS, WHICH IS WHAT IS IT ABOUT PHIL RIZZO'S BRAND OF REPUBLICANISM THAT BOTHERS YOU?

>> BECAUSE HE SPENDS MOST OF HIS TIME TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND HIM AS OPPOSED TO TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE PEOPLE OF NEW JERSEY AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE VOTERS IN THIS STATE.

IT'S PRETTY MUCH ALL ABOUT HIM AND HIS VIEWS.

IT'S NEVER OPEN-MINDED, AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO REPRESENT PEOPLE, YOU REPRESENT A LOT OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE WITH A LOT OF DIFFERENT VIEWS.

IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT ME.

IT'S ABOUT PUBLIC POLICY AND LISTENING.

AND I THINK SOMETIMES THERE'S PEOPLE IN OUR PARTY -- AND I ACCEPT HIM AS A REPUBLICAN.

I JUST THINK HE DOESN'T ACCEPT OTHER PEOPLE, AND THEREFORE DOESN'T REALLY WANT TO UNDERSTAND.

HE JUST WANTS TO BE UNDERSTOOD.

>> YES OR NO TO THIS FINAL QUESTION.

I'LL ASK YOU FIRST, JOHN.

IS PHIL A DANGER TO NEW JERSEY REPUBLICANISM?

>> NO, I DON'T THINK HE'S A DANGER.

I THINK WE WOULD BE MUCH BETTER OFF IF HE WORKED IN A WAY WHERE PEOPLE FEEN TRUST FOR OUR PARTY AS OPPOSED TO FEAR OF OUR PARTY.

SOMETIMES WHEN YOU HEAR HARSH LANGUAGE, PEOPLE GO, I DON'T LIKE PHIL MURPHY, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN VOTE FOR A REPUBLICAN.

THAT'S SOMETIMES IF PEOPLE HAVE STRONG OPINIONS LIKE THAT, THE VOTERS HEAR THAT.

>> PHIL, YOU GET THE LAST WORD HERE.

IS JOHN A DANGER TO REPUBLICANISM IN NEW JERSEY?

>> NO, I DON'T THINK HE'S A DANGER.

I THINK HE'S MISINFORMED, AND I THINK HE MISCHARACTERIZED WHO I AM.

I'M A PASTOR.

MY LIFE IS DEDICATED TO LISTENING TO PEOPLE AND THEN HELPING THEM ALONG IN LIFE.

I SHOWED UP ON THE SCENE IN POLITICS TWO YEARS AGO.

I RAN FOR GOVERNOR FOR FOUR 1/2 MONTHS.

AND WE PULLED 27% OF THE VOTE.

JOHN CAN TRY AND LABEL ME AS SOMEBODY WHO'S DOING A LOT OF TALKING AND TRYING TO SELL MYSELF.

PEOPLE WANT SOMEBODY THAT DOES LISTEN AND SPEAKS FOR THEM.

HE'S NOT LISTENING.

WE REPRESENT -- MY VOICE REPRESENTS THE ANGER AND THE FRUSTRATION FROM NEW JERSEY FAMILIES TOP TO BOTTOM FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE PARTY.

WE HAD DEMOCRATS SWITCHING REGISTRATIONS TO REPUBLICAN TO VOTE FOR ME.

HOW DID I PULL 27% IN FOUR MONTHS?

THAT'S INSANE.

IT'S NOT BECAUSE I'M GREAT.

IT'S BECAUSE I LISTENED AND I ACTUALLY ECHOED THE VOICE OF THE NEW JERSEY FAMILIES TOP TO BOTTOM.

I THINK IT'S JOHN WHO'S TONE DEAF, AND I THINK 30 YEARS BEING IN THE REPUBLICAN MINORITY IN NEW JERSEY, THERE'S ENOUGH EVIDENCE THERE TO SAY THAT THEY'RE THE DYING BREED, AND WE'RE UP AND COMING.

>> ALL RIGHT.

PHIL RIZZO, JOHN BRAMNICK, THANKS FOR COMING ON WITH US TODAY.

THAT'S KPAT BOX THIS WEEK.

YOU CAN FOLLOW US ON TWITTER AND SUBSCRIBE TO THE YOUTUBE CHANNEL.

I'M DAVID CRUZ, FROM ALL THE CREW OVER HERE, THANKS FOR WATCHING.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

>>> MAJOR FUNDING FOR CHAT BOX WITH DAVID CRUZ IS PROVIDED BY THE MEMBERS OF THE NEW JERSEY EDUCATION ASSOCIATION, MAKING PUBLIC SCHOOLS GREAT FOR EVERY CHILD.

MJM INSURANCE GROUP, SERVING THE INSURANCE NEEDS OF NEW JERSEY RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES FOR MORE THAN 100 YEARS.

PROMOTIONAL SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY INSIDER NJ, A POLITICAL INTELLIGENCE NETWORK.

INSIDER NJ IS COMMITTED TO GIVING SERIOUS POLITICAL PLAYERS AN INTERACTIVE FORUM FOR IDEAS, DISCUSSION, AND INCITE.

ONLINE AT INSIDER NJ.COM.