Lawmakers, as you know, are considering gambling legislation this session, including bills dealing with sports betting and gray machines or skill games, as some call them.

We discussed both last night on Kentucky tonight.

Games now and many bars, clubs and convenience stores are known as, quote, gray machines because their critics say they exist in a gray area of the law.

A bill being considered would ban them and another bill would regulate them.

Bob Hal Ringer is a former state lawmaker who's now a lobbyist for a game maker.

He says the games are legal because a player has to use some skill to win.

People have to play the game.

They have to have some kind of skill, mental acuity, hand-eye coordination, whatever you want to call it.

But their skill is what determines whether or not they win and not a game like a slot machine, or you put a coin in and push a button.

Hope you win something.

So undercut current definition of Kentucky law.

We're a legal game.

And of course, our opponents admit that by I mean they say we're illegal.

They have a bill to ban us that obviously they wouldn't need if we were already illegal.

It's undisputed that these particular games we're talking about here tonight have not been authorized by the legislature.

In fact, they're currently illegal under Kentucky law because they undoubtedly involve an element of chance.

So when Mr. Ringer talks about having to use skill, Renee, these games are tic tac toe.

It's nine images that spin and stop and the player is to complete a line, if it can, with a wild card.

Many times when you hit the play button, which is a lot like a slot machine, the images stop and the nine images like on a tic tac toe board, none of them match.

That's a loss.

That's pure chance.

Another bill would legalize some types of sports betting.

And Kentucky backers say sports fans are betting in other states.

And Kentucky is losing money.

Opponents worry about the social harm caused by gambling.

With six of our seven surrounding states having legalized that, it puts us in a poor competitive position.

And I hear stories all the time about people going to Tennessee or Indiana or Ohio because the geo location device on their phone won't let them make a bet in Kentucky.

So they're they're driving to other states.

They're making their wagers over there.

They can go to a brick and mortar sportsbook in Cincinnati there.

They're shopping over there or they're getting groceries over there before they come home to Kentucky.

So it's not just about the sports wagering.

It's about the activity that they're engaging in when they go to other states.

Where does this end?

How does it affect our kids and where does it stand?

And I think we need to be concerned about those who are prone to addiction.

And I don't know if the state has done a study or considered that what are what are the costs and benefits involved here?

What is the downside?

Who does it affect in especially the least of these in the Commonwealth of Kentucky?

We know that the poor are vulnerable.

Those who are down on their on their hope, they're looking for a way out of their poverty.

And instead of the state promoting and opening the door to predatory gambling operations, the state should be a firewall to any industry that comes in that would prey on its people.

You can see more of last night's conversation online on demand at Katie Dawgs slash K-Y tonight.