You're support helps us bring you programs you love.

Go to wyomingpbs.org click on "support", and become a sustaining member or an annual member.

It's easy, and secure.

Thank you.

(bouncy orchestral music) - [Steve] Several people have had the job through the years, but the current Poet Laureate of Wyoming is the first to emphasize children's poetry in his work.

That's only part of the story of Gene Gagliano of Buffalo.

- You just can't write every book.

There's not enough time to write everything I would like to write.

- We'll meet Wyoming's ambassador for poetry.

I'm Steve Peck at Wyoming PBS.

And this is Wyoming Chronicle.

- [Announcer] Funding for this program is made possible in part by the Wyoming Humanities Council, helping Wyoming take a closer look at life through the humanities, thinkwy.org.

and by the members of the Wyoming PBS Foundation.

Thank you for your support.

- We're here today with Wyoming Poet Laureate Gene Gagliano.

Gene, thanks for being with us and welcome to Wyoming Chronicle.

Do you remember the first poem you ever wrote or the thing that you recognize as a poem?

- It was in seventh grade.

I had a wonderful teacher named Mrs. Irwin and I wrote a two stanza poem about flowers I guess it was, and she put it in the school newspaper and that's when she encouraged me and I realized I was a poet.

And then in high school I wrote poetry and one day I got caught writing poetry when I was supposed to be listening to my English teacher and she said, she came up behind me and I just, I want to see that.

I handed it to her.

She says, "I want to see you after school."

- [Steve Pack] Uh-oh.

- Paused, and she said, we're going to publish that in the National High School anthology.

And from there I did that.

And then in college I had college poetry published in National College Poetry anthologies.

- Thinking back to that first one.

So you were about twelve or thirteen years old?

- Yes.

- Do you remember why you did it?

What moved you to do it, what the spark was?

- Well, it was the fact that I wasn't doing really well with sports.

(chuckling) And I had to shine somewhere and I was a gardener at an early age and I knew a lot about the flowers and plants.

So I wrote about them and- - Where was this?

- Niagara Falls, New York.

- Niagara Falls, New York.

- In 1957.

- Did you have encouragement in poetry and reading and books in your home, as well?

- Not so much, believe it or not, but in my own home, my wife is also a teacher.

Books are important, reading and writing is important.

- Sure, sure.

Thinking back again to those school days, was the poem got published in the school newspaper, so it was a part of, became part of your education.

You had teachers who encouraged you, which I'm sure you look back now on with appreciation and realize the importance of that.

- I do, and of course as an Elementary Teacher of thirty-four years, now retired, I was very encouraging.

As a matter of fact, I'm proud to say that last year, I believe it was, I won the Award for Encouraging and Supporting Other Writers from the Wyoming Writer Scoop, and that meant a lot to me.

That really did.

- You're the Poet Laureate of Wyoming.

What the heck is that?

- Basically, I'm an emissary for poetry and creativity.

And my goal also as a children's author was to get out to children and encourage reading and writing both.

And as the Poet Laureate, you get to do more with poetry for adults especially.

- Whenever I encounter someone who's had a job that's different from most other peoples, or a calling or vocation, I'm interested to know how that comes about.

I doubt if back in Niagara Falls, you were thinking, "You know what I want to do now that I've been published in the school paper is become the Poet Laureate of Wyoming."

- Well, I never envisioned becoming the Poet Laureate, but I began writing a lot at school.

We were having lots of teachers, lots of authors come into the school and I was usually in charge for bringing them in.

And observing them and what they were doing, I thought, some day I'm going to be an author that goes to different schools and promote books.

And meanwhile, of course, I was writing poetry for kids and I was writing poetry for adults.

And some I'd get it published in magazines or things here and there.

But it wasn't until I joined the Wyoming Writers Group that they encouraged me as a writer.

So I did both.

I was writing short stories, got my first forty-five dollar check for a contest win from Wyoming Writers, and then I joined the Wyoming Poets.

And when you're around those creative people, they just encourage you, and I do the same for them.

And several of the people that I've mentored have had books published within the last few years.

I think it was about four and a fifth one coming up.

And that means a lot to me because I had people helping me, other authors.

Will Hobbs was a real big supporter of my work.

- So how does another writer support you and your work?

What can another writer do for you?

- Well, they give you tips about what to do, what not to do.

Reading their work inspires you.

And you do a lot of reading and you pick up a lot of the tips without even realizing it.

They're supportive, they'll have you, they'll mention your name during a presentation or something and they buy your books.

(chuckling) You know?

Craig Johnson, who was doing extremely well, we got together the other day and I said to him, I said, "Do you remember that we were signing books up here in Buffalo for a Living History Days?"

And I said to him, I had a long line, my first big book was "C is for Cowboy", that came out.

And he was sitting there with "Cold Dish", nobody there.

I walked over to him and I said, "Craig."

I introduced myself.

And he said, I said, "Well, is this your first book?"

He said, "Yes, this is my first book."

And I said, "Well, you know, Craig, you never know what's going to become of that book."

(clearing throat) Yeah, he was at the Wyoming Writer's Conference just recently and he hasn't changed, he's a great guy- - Remind viewers who Craig Johnson is, has become.

- Oh, Craig, he's the author of the "Longmire" series.

- Published many times and of course became the fabulously successful television series, as well.

A Wyoming writer.

- Right.

- How did you get the job of Poet Laureate?

And I presume at some point you realize that it's vacant and so, - No.

- How did it happen?

- Somebody asked me if I had a poetry book, because they knew I wrote and I said, "Well, yeah, I've got Prairie Parcels, that was my first book."

He said, "Well, Governor Mead's looking for a new Poet Laureate and we're just gathering some candidates' work."

So I sent it in thinking, "Nah, it's never going to happen."

Get a phone call one day, and Governor Mead at the time says, we started talking, he says, "Gene."

He said, "I want you to be my next Poet Laureate."

And I said, "Seriously?"

And he goes, "Seriously."

And then I was, I didn't know what to say.

It was an honor and I really wasn't quite sure what I was going to be doing.

This is the book that Governor Mead read.

This was a self-published one.

- [Steve Peck] "Prairie Parcels" it's called?

- "Prairie Parcels."

I did the sketches in it.

I take my job role very seriously and I try to be my very best wherever I present.

And I think it's important that people realize that I'm out there trying to do a lot.

I get out there and I do, start with festivals, conferences, workshops.

I go to Senior Centers.

I work with Head Start programs, Boys and Girls Club, you name it, and I'll go read.

- You made available to me a list of the things you've done over the past three or four years perhaps, and it was dozens and dozens of events and appearances and engagements.

Are they all the same?

Do you find that people want you to do a different thing for a different purpose?

- It's always different, you know?

Which makes it interesting.

I went to a Slack school, which is a one room schoolhouse.

- [Steve Peck] Say the name again.

- Slack, S-L-A-C-K, over in Sheridan.

And read poetry to those kids and talked about books and got them all excited and they bought some books and that was wonderful.

But I've done workshops for so many of the groups and conferences.

But everything shut down after the pandemic.

And so things are just starting to get going.

- When you present poetry and do a presentation for children, I presume that's well received probably almost every time.

Kids seem to be well disposed toward verse and poetry when they're young.

What happens later do you think to so many people?

- Well I'll tell you what happened to me.

I was writing poetry, but I got turned off by having to read all this poetry that I couldn't understand and having to memorize some stuff that didn't mean anything to me.

And that was in high school.

So I think that when they start getting into, if you start them off, my theory is you start kids off, young children off with rhymes and riddles and children's poetry, then they can work their way, they're interested in poetry so that the transition might be a bit easier or better.

- When I was a kid, my mother liked poetry, wrote poetry, read it to me, required me to listen to it.

She had a, there was a book on our shelves, bookshelves.

And I looked at my mother's bookshelves as wall art rather than, "What's that" in the beginning.

But there was a book called, maybe you've probably heard of it.

It was called "How Does a Poem mean?"

And it was a poet and a critic and a scholar sort of talking about two things: One, hitting on what you mentioned earlier, recalling when you had to start looking at more complicated, serious poetry and what did it mean.

And also he talks about what poem means to a person, What does poetry mean to you?

And said, what value does it have for you?

- Well, poetry for me, it's a way of focusing in on the human condition, people's emotions, short snippets of life that happen to people, because there's a lot of stuff that goes on that we aren't aware of in other people.

And I try to capture those things.

And it's fun, I enjoy writing.

I observe people and children, of course, I've had years of that.

I think it's a way of telling their stories without names, you know, all the time.

Just a way of making people aware of what's around them, you know?

And a lot of times people are, you know, sometimes you'll see somebody who's really grumpy.

We don't know what kind of a cross they're carrying.

And then you see some people who carry them really well and some don't.

I'd like, like to read a poem that give you an idea.

This book is called "The Wyoming State of Mind."

Love that book.

Some of the pictures I took and others are from the editor.

But it's a collection that I had Governor, Governor Gordon and I had a relationship because I taught both of his daughters and he loves poetry.

And so I had him read this manuscript.

Well, he didn't realize it was going to be published and dedicated to him.

And at a Governor's Arts Awards Banquet, I called him up and gave it to him- - He's a writer of a sort himself.

- Oh yeah, he's a neat guy.

But anyways, so this book is my legacy to Wyoming.

It's my favorite book.

It's a beautiful book, it's hard cover.

Paul Prosinski, he's an artist and photographer here in town, he did the artwork.

But here's one I took at the cemetery, and it's called, "The Roadside Hero."

"He sits outside in his wheelchair by the veterans home sign next to the highway, waving a miniature American flag, proud to have sacrificed both legs for his country.

Cars and trucks whiz past him.

Some people honk their horns, others wave with a smile.

Yet some people drive by giving no recognition to his courage.

I wonder about him, the trauma he must have suffered, how it affected the people he loved, how war changed him from the man he once was.

What horror is hidden behind his patriotic eyes?

A man, a veteran sits in a wheelchair, a hero by the side of the road."

This is for teachers.

Oh, this one poem.

This is called "More Than Four Seasons."

This is a beautiful book too.

I took a lot of the pictures in here and so did the editor.

This one's called "School Teacher."

And you have to remember that I taught for thirty-four years and once a school teacher, always a school teacher.

"You entrust your children to me five days a week, about seven hours a day.

I accept them the way they are and work to make them the best they can be.

I support them in their efforts to discover, explore and learn and develop their gifts and talents.

I'm there to help teach them the ropes, survival tactics for the everyday world.

I watch them grow, mentally and physically, and guide them on their way.

I grow to love them as if they were my own.

And then I let them go.

I send them on their way to another teacher to carry on the education of your children."

And yeah, I like that one.

- Yeah, you move easily between- - Yeah, I do.

- What we call the childlike form of poetry and the more adult form of poetry.

- And this book was the 2018 Best Fictional Read for Children.

It's called, "Is It True?"

And it's a group of poems for young kids and oh, kids anywhere from second grade up to sixth or seventh.

But this one, this is the favorite.

I read this wherever I go, it's called, "Heard That Before."

"The dog ate my homework, is what I had said.

The teacher frowned, I wished I were dead.

How did he eat it?

Baked, boiled or fried?

He ate it raw, I said, and I cried.

Did he chew it all up?

Did he think it was yummy?

Did it make him real sick?

Did it upset his tummy?

To tell you the truth, I've heard this before.

You have to have proof or you'll do it once more.

My dad said evidence might make you gag, but I brought you the proof right here in this bag."

And I hope you can see that, they love that one.

So, you know, I've got a sense of humor for kids.

I've written a book called, "Little Wyoming."

It's a board book and it's riddles and it's simple, it's durable, and when you read it, there's a picture and the little rhyme is imposed over the picture.

And then when you turn the page, there's the- And once kids learn what the answer is, they want you to read that over and over and over.

I'm really happy with that one.

- I suppose what any author or poet would hope for is that the audience talks about it, responds to it when hearing it for the first time, remembers it, talks about it afterwards, wants to hear it again.

- Exactly, and that gets them hooked on books.

- I remember reading an interview with Norman Mailer, who of course, author of prodigious novels this thick, also wrote some poetry, and the interviewer said, "What inspires you to write?"

And he said, "Well, nothing."

Or he said, what he meant was, "I'm not saying I never have inspiration, but I can't afford to wait for it because it happens too seldom."

What's your writing process like?

Does that, do you identify with what he said at all?

Or do you get up one day and say, "Today I must write a poem," or, "I saw the veteran in the wheelchair and it's time to write about him."

- It's a mixture, I'm inspired, I'll see something and I'll jot down notes and normally I carry a little something in my pocket to write the note down and then I go back to my office and will write.

But people say, "Well, how do you get these ideas?"

They just come to me, I don't know where they come from.

They come, you just can't write every book.

That's just it, you know, there's something, it's just, there's not enough time to write everything.

I would like to write- - The term, "Writer's Block" is not something that plagues you.

- Not really.

There might be, if I suddenly can't finish something or I'm working on something, I'll set it aside, come back to it.

You need to do that.

And I did that with two books that I had written.

One was called "Snap" and I set it aside.

It got, I had finished writing it and I don't know what I want to do with it really.

And I kind of lost it for a while.

And then about a year or two later, I brought it out.

I said, "I better read this, see what it's like.

Man, this is pretty good."

"Snap" takes place in Olympic National Park.

"Wedge of Fear" is contemporary, takes place here in Buffalo, Wyoming.

Basically, it's based on a young kid who moves from New York State to Wyoming.

And of course I did that many, many years ago.

So, and that one, let's see that one, the third place Evvy Award.

This one won a second place Evvy Award from Colorado.

- So part of what you do is you keep busy entering contests, participating in festivals to, and it's- - And get out there.

- You've got to get out there, stay out there, keep your work and your name out there.

- I always say, "You have to be persistent, you have to practice, you have to be patient."

In my case, I did a lot of praying.

(laughing) But you know, I mean, you look at that, you know, sometimes I feel like I've done nothing.

And then other times I look at it and think, well, gosh, there's a lot there.

- You've done something.

- I've done something.

- You've done something.

- I've tried to make the world a little better.

I write middle grade fiction, I enjoy that.

I like writing for the younger kids and I like to address serious issues with the adults.

But that's not to say that there aren't some funny ones in those books.

- How do you view, when you look back to the poems that you wrote or things that you wrote decades ago, does it still, how does it strike you now?

Glad that you wrote it?

Proud of it, Embarrassed by it, sometimes?

- I put two that I found as I was going through all my files and they actually ended up in this book.

And I thought, those are pretty good.

And I can't believe I wrote that way back when.

Your writing gets better, you know, I go to workshops, I give workshops, but I go to workshops too and learn.

And I read poetry and I try to write a lot and practice the craft.

It's a good thing to do because it makes you better.

I write for the common man so they can understand it.

You know, you can relate to, people can relate to my poetry.

Other poets write things that are kind of, I don't know, you have to, you have your own interpretation or you wonder what they're saying.

And that's a different style.

There's nothing wrong with that.

But it's not my style.

- Who was an early poet that got to you when you were a child or first beginning to write?

- Oh, as a kid, it was a young person, Robert Frost.

I liked his work.

And then as an adult, Pat Frolander, who was a Wyoming Poet Laureate.

Her work is beautiful and I try to emulate her style somewhat.

- Will you write today?

- I don't know.

(chuckling) Usually I write in the morning, but I didn't get anything written this morning.

- We've ruined it for you.

- Yeah, you messed that day up.

- Tomorrow?

- Oh yeah, I'm working on a project.

- [Steve] Yesterday, did you?

- Yeah.

It's just, you have to just, you know, but I'm not one of these that says I have to write every day.

If I don't feel quite like writing one or if I'm writing something in the middle of it, I will go for a walk if I get stuck and say, "No, that's not coming together."

You know, a walk in nature does a lot for me.

Refreshes the brain, and sometimes you just need to put it away for a while.

The story here is Susan Guy.

(chuckling) I was waiting for the book to come out and they said, "You know, we haven't found an illustrator."

Well they finally found one and told me, "We found an illustrator."

Well who is it?

And they just gave her name.

Didn't say where she was or anything.

Her name was Susan Guy.

Turns out that I'm in a community choir with her.

She's about seven seats down.

- No kidding?

- And we became close friends and she did the very first page.

Did you see?

"A is for Altitude of Mountains that Soar, the Grand Tetons rise straight up from the floor, called by many of the Swiss Alps of our land under star scattered skies, these treasures stand.

That's a watercolor.

Now, she did beautiful work, but she passed away.

We were a good team.

- You've talked about your role as Poet Laureate in terms of having a platform for the coming months or year, what is that?

- For me, it's, I want to get back into the one room school houses because those kids don't get to, you know, see live people that often, and I want kids to know, and I always tell them this, you know, as an author, I'm just a person, like any of them.

I have good days and bad days.

I laugh, I cry, I work, I play.

And they need to know that.

I don't want them putting me up here, you know?

"Wow, you're an-" because when you walk there into the school, "You're an author" you know, and all that.

And it's a kick, but they need to understand that is I am just a person- - A person wrote this book.

- Yeah.

- So there's a person watching us today on Wyoming PBS deeply inspired by your words, wants to dip his or her toe into poetry.

Where are a couple of good places to start?

- Join the Wyoming Poet Organization.

They have contests.

You get these contests and send your work in.

They'll critique it and motivate you.

They have a workshop every April, the end of April.

You can connect with friends, try to get into a writing group.

I'm no longer in a writing group, but that's how I started out with.

But it's got to be a group that you feel comfortable with and sometimes you just don't, the people you know, you have to blend.

- You taught for thirty-four years in public schools.

What age group again?

- K through five.

- K through five.

- I taught in a one room school when I first came here in Buffalo.

K through five as well.

- What brought you to Wyoming?

- Traveling summer camp.

- Oh, really?

- Yeah, way back in the right after I graduated from college, traveled across the United States, got to see it and went Southwest first year, but a lot of miles, 1100 miles I guess it was.

And then the next year we went to Northwest and put more miles on.

And I was supposed to get married and I said to my wife, "Can we wait until fall, put it off instead of June?"

And she said, "Yes, it's an opportunity."

And God bless her, she was right.

And I promised to take her out the next year.

Came out here, she fell in love with it.

And here we are.

- Now, I understand you've recently returned from a much anticipated trip abroad, is that right?

- Yes, our fifty, well, supposed to be our 50th wedding anniversary, but it turned out to be the 53rd because of the pandemic.

We went to Rome and to Paris and we had a wonderful time with my son, his wife, and my grandson.

- Sounds wonderful.

Did you wax poetic about it afterwards?

- A little bit, we took one picture.

(laughing) On the wall they had written a poetic something or another in a poetic life and they said, "Stand next to it.

We'll take a picture of it."

- Good, good.

It seems appropriate.

What's poetry all about, exactly?

We can understand how language began.

Come here, stay away.

That's mine, give that to me.

Where, who are you, where are you going?

I think history and study shows that it wasn't long before language, written and spoken, pretty quickly began being used for different kinds of expression.

I just think that's a fascinating part of humanity.

- I think at one time people started to realize we need to know a little bit more about each other and you can write about it.

It's telling short stories, snippets of life.

So you know, you could tell me what you do for a job or whatever, but I don't know how you really feel.

And if I can get that down in words that can help change a person.

(bright symphonic music) - [Announcer] Funding for this program is made possible in part by the Wyoming Humanities Council, Helping Wyoming take a closer look at life through the humanities, thinkwhy.org and by the members of the Wyoming PBS Foundation.

Thank you for your support.