- [Narrator] By the River is brought to you in part by the University of South Carolina Beaufort.

learning in action, discovered.

the ETV Endowment of South Carolina, Community Foundation of the Low Country strengthening community, Osher Lifelong Learning Institute at USCB, the Pat Conroy Literary Center.

- [Woman] Charleston born and bred news reporter turned author, Gervais Hagerty combined Southern hospitality, riddles and new rules for the future.

Her debut novel 'In Polite Company' takes us behind the scenes of Charleston's aristocracy as one young woman discovers herself while reconciling her past.

- I'm Holly Jackson, join us as we bring you powerful stories from both new and established Southern authors as we sit By the River.

(upbeat music) - Hi, it's another beautiful day here in our waterfront studio in Beaufort, Thanks so much for joining us By the River.

You know, this is our love letter to Southern writing and we invite Southern authors, South Carolina authors to come in and tell us their stories.

We are here today with the author of 'In Polite Company,' Gervais Hagerty and Gervais thank you so much for joining us.

Very nice book, we were just talking about the cover and we'll get to that but first, Gervais, tell us a little bit about the story and just how you got to it.

- It is a novel that's based in Charleston and it's a story that's near and dear to my heart because it's of my hometown and I got started writing it really only because I had this strong and bizarre impulse to write a novel.

It's not what I always wanted to do.

I just, but it just kept, I don't know, it was just under the surface for so long and I listened to it.

So as a professor at the Citadel, I had summers off and that's when I would just type, type, type of way.

I had no real plan.

I had no real goals.

I mean, obviously it was a dream always to have it published but that's really kind of how it all got started.

- So the timeline, I'm thinking about quarantine time, was some of your writing during that?

- Quarantine was very interesting.

So I had told the Citadel, which I absolutely adored, it was very hard, tough decision to leave but I had told them I was gonna leave that January, so a few months before COVID really hit and I was working on a second novel while I was trying to shop this one around and then COVID hit but then I got the offer for my book that May and so then I switched back to working on this.

So, essentially all of my experience working with Harper Collins, that's the publisher, has been virtual.

I mean, everything's been virtual.

I haven't met any of these people in person.

I can't wait to meet them but that's been my experience.

- Because you know, so many people during quarantine, I think back about, you know, remember when we were supposed to have quarantine for two weeks?

- [Gervais] Yeah.

- How long that lasted but a lot of people just like really decided, I'm gonna fulfill that dream that I've always wanted to do, that sort of thing but I do love hearing about authors during that time and have been surprised by so many people who said, you would think that that's whenever they really got a lot of writing done but they were just stumped and they just, you know, were at kind of like the writer's block thing.

How did that time affect you as a writer?

- I think I pulled some hair out, it was insane.

I have two young children and it was a battle, COVID though I will say in Charleston is very different than the rest of the world and I do (indistinct) couch it with it, I really appreciate it but just being at home with the children was nuts and so my sister had a babysitter and we were in a pod together and so I begged that babysitter.

I paid her as much as she wanted and all she would give me was two and a half hours a day.

That's it and so I would wait on a bike at my house and I would see her push my nephew in a stroller to my house and so she wasn't even at the house yet and I'd race to my sister's house 'cause it was the only place I could go without children for two and a half hours and then I'd drink a bunch of coffee and I'd write and I'd get in the zone and then at noon, had to be back and I'd be hopped up on coffee and I'd be in a total different head space and it was a disaster to go home with the children- - It was a beautiful two and half hours, you made use of every moment, right?

- That was it, that's all I had but it kept me sane.

It was what I, you know, it makes me happy.

- Yes, yes.

I can relate, I have four young kids.

- [Gervais] Oh wow.

- All Girls and I had those couple babysitters who were willing to go with us through that time and I love them.

They are dear to my heart.

All right, tell us the story of 'In Polite Company.'

- The story is about a young woman.

It's a coming of age story of Simons Smythe and she's from Charleston and she is about to get married.

She's supposed to get married to this young man named Trip and she is also a news producer at a local station and she's questioning her marriage.

She's questioning also the ethics at play at the the news station and also at her, within her family's tight circle in Charleston.

- Okay and how much of this is based on, this is fiction but are some based on real life experiences?

- Well, so, yes and no.

What I'd like to say about that is that though the scenes are made up, the feelings are very true and at the heart also of the story is the relationship between Simons and her grandmother Lottie and I had originally written a lot of it actually, it was pretty cathartic as my grandmother was in hospice.

We were very close.

I wear her ring whenever I write, it feels like a power and I miss her dearly and that grandmother is not my grandmother but it really inspired me to be thinking about another element of the story is how cultural expectations can really bind somebody in their dreams and especially women and maybe even women in the South and I wanted to explore that, like what would that grandmother have been had she been born in a different time?

- Through this writing process, talk about the relationships that you have made in particular with South Carolina writers, many who've been on this show, By the River.

One even a couple of times, talk about those relationships and what they've meant to you and how they've helped you along with writing the book.

- I would not be here today without those relationships.

First of all, my mom, who's in the studio right now.

She's been my cheerleader and just number one fan since the first day and she's been connected to the writing community in Charleston and through her, I met Mary Alice Munro who has been writing, I think she just finished her 27th novel and she's incredibly prolific and incredibly kind and I begged her to mentor me and she read an earlier version of this book and her advice helped me immensely, it- - You've actually changed a little bit based on her feedback.

- I really did, I really did.

When I first read the book and I had said how it was pretty cathartic with my grandmother, Mary Alice goes, all she does is die.

What is this woman's story?

And I got to thinking about, okay, like, what is her story gonna be?

And we were talking and I was like, I think I could make her a dancer and Mary Alice said she needs Capezio shoes.

I said what are Capezio shoes?

- Right.

- Look them up and so I was just looking, I spent a lot of time online looking at these different dancing shoes.

You can wear them to like tap dance.

They're the soft ones for the ballet and so I just imagine this grandmother just sweeping in these (indistinct) at a bar upstairs in her hallway and then Simons and her grandmother would have conversations because Simons confides a lot about her struggles that she won't share with her immediate family.

She'll do that, she'll share it with her grandmother.

- Very neat.

Let's back up and talk about you.

You went to Vanderbilt.

What was the plan at that time in your life?

We made some jokes, mom's in the house, shh, but let's back up a little bit and talk at that point, what did you think you wanted to do with your life?

- Gah-lee, I wish I had thought more ahead.

Let's see.

I know, I have an answer for this.

Like I said, I was a little bit of a party girl- - [Holly] Right.

The first few years but I really got my head on straight and a huge passion of mine is environmentalism and it's something that I really live by day to day.

I mean, we compost, we have solar panels.

I sold my car, I only get around on a cargo bike unless I take my mom's car from Charleston to Beaufort.

It's a big thing and I was on the student government environmental affairs committee and so I always knew I wanted to do something with that.

I was a psych major.

I was also interested in people as well, but- - But you weren't really writing during that time- - No, I did not grow up.

In fact, so I came from a family of intellectuals.

They love books but the problem was my dad would go, yeah, he so wanted us to be good readers, but he would go, you will have to read an hour a day, you must read and then I'd just be with the book- - All you want to do is not read- - Not read, oh, I mean, I know it came from a good place, but I mean, as a kid, I just, I really did not have a great relationship with books.

Now I read, I mean, every day, hours a day, now that I love it- - Now that you're not made to- - (indistinct), but it was, yeah, it took until probably after college when I really found, you just have to discover your own joy of reading, which I certainly did but it was not developed at that age.

- Okay, so now you're a mom.

So tell me how you do that.

- I have learned you definitely can attract more flies with honey.

So with our kids, we read every night in bed and reading time, I mean, my kid is always trying to sneak a book at the dinner table, you know, it's a reward and I think, I mean, also, they go to a public Montessori school downtown.

They've got excellent teachers and so I can't say it's all what we're doing but she's, the oldest is certainly a lover of books and the second one just imprints.

So yeah- - Right, - [Gervais] Hmm-mm.

- That's great.

- [Gervais] hmm-mm.

- You do have Pat Conroy story and we certainly wanna hear that because anytime that we can bring him up in the show, I like to and I really love your story.

So, I know we're kind of shifting gears- - [Gervais] Sure, yeah.

- but if you'll please share that story that you were telling- - So when he was writing 'Lords of Discipline,' he was living in Atlanta and my mom was there as well and my mom was part of this writers circle and Andover Siddons was there and he was looking for a name for one of the female characters and he was looking for a Charleston name and my mom is Barbara Gervais Hagerty and I'm Gervais and so he named one of the lead female characters Anna Kate Gervais.

So that's a fun connection.

- Yeah, that is, and so then you went on to teach at the Citadel and you did, you asked that your students read that book.

You did not require it, I'm guessing but that all kind of goes back to the dad thing.

- Oh yeah, I think probably so.

I would bring it, I re-read it my last semester there, because I just, I've always loved that book and I wanted to read it while I was there with those students, because so much has changed but so much it's still the same and of course they're very dark themes and he tackled a lot of heavy issues, but so much of the book is just light mischief and that's what was so fun about teaching there and I taught public speaking.

So I really think I had the best job because I got to learn the stories of those students.

So people who are on faculty for decades, I dare to say, I probably knew the students better because instead of lecturing, I was mostly listening and I was helping them shape their stories into something that they could communicate.

It was a riot, it was so fun.

- And do you think that that chapter is over or you might revisit that again?

- Oh, I'll revisit the Citadel in some way or another, for sure, yeah.

- Back to the book, Let's talk about the, as far as your writing process, the challenges and the highlights, like, if you had to think back about, how long was the span do you think from start to finish?

- I think probably we're looking at almost probably four and a half, five years just because I was doing this in my free time.

- Right, and so, yeah, challenges and really just the highlights of it all.

- Well, the highlights, I'm so lucky, I looked at this as, it was a treat.

I got to do this on my free time.

I mean, for two of those summers, I had infants and I was going a little nutso just being at home with them and so I started to get a sitter and buy myself some time and I would also go hang out in coffee shops and order really nice cappuccinos and right, it was really great and I think it suits my nature.

I'm not the kind of person who's gonna sit and try to fix a sentence and make it perfect.

I wanna get it all out there.

I have a goal, I do a 1,000 words a day.

- [Holly] Okay.

- And then if by Friday I haven't hit 5,000.

I work the weekend.

It's just, it's my job and then once I'm done, then I edit but I just, it's fun, I mean, all day I just get to make stuff up.

- [Holly] Right.

- So I mean, sure it gets frustrating and I think every writer you get to the point, who's gonna read this?

I mean, why am I even writing this?

But I've learned that the best ones, they just don't question themselves because that's not gonna do you any good.

- Now tell me about your most trusted readers, who gets to read the first copy?

- It's my mom for sure.

So she's a poet and she's also very encouraging but she'll also tell me something like, I don't like this sentence.

I don't even know why, but it's bad and you need to fix it.

- And you do?

- I do, absolutely, I mean, I wanna be the best writer I can be and this first novel I edited it, I think maybe eight or nine times before Mary Alice saw it.

So it's been passed through by me at least a dozen times and that's just me learning the process and becoming a better writer.

I just submitted 200 pages yesterday morning to my editor in hopes of her buying another book and so we'll, I don't know, we'll see but I think that one, I just, I know what I'm doing more and I've found out my own process and what works for me.

- Once you finally hit the end I'm sure it was quite a relief to finally, you know, say that it was done but then what?

What's next?

- Well for this book or- - [Holly] No, after this.

- Well, I, well, it's this next book.

I mean, I think I'm gonna hear pretty soon whether or not I can kind of keep this dream alive if she'll buy another book.

So that's what I'm trying to do.

- Are you still at a 1,000 thousand words a day?

- Yeah, so I did a thousand words a day up until, I've learned, I'm never gonna send a first draft though.

I wanna make sure it's clean and, I don't know my characters well in the beginning, it's like, I put on a layer and then I go back and then I find out a little bit more and a little bit more and so my plan really for the summer was to get up to 65,000 but she said she wanted to see it sooner, so I stopped at 50 and then I edited it for three weeks, you know, 30 hours a week, at least, just trying to get it to where I wanted it- - [Holly] Hmm-mm.

- Where I thought it was good enough.

- And then you talked about your reading and that you read all the time now as well.

What is your choice of, what genre do you choose?

- I tend to choose fiction.

I like historical fiction.

I like literary, just last night or two nights ago I finished 'Writers and lovers.'

I liked that one.

I also read, I read the writers in town.

I want to meet them, I want to know them, I want to see what they're doing, but sometimes it's often just a book passed to me.

Probably the one that struck me most was one I read over the holidays, Miracle in the Andes, it's about that plane crash in the 70's, it was absolutely riveting and I think about it all the time still which I think is a hallmark of a really good book.

- We talked about kind of the mentorship of some of these authors, but I imagine being a South Carolina author now, you kind of become part of the circle and I find it so intriguing how just instead of like a competition, everyone just loves and supports each other.

Tell me about that relationship that that group has.

- I find it mind blowing.

It's shocking all the time.

I truly don't understand how people can be so generous, I feel like I'm a nice person, but they're really, really nice.

- [Holly] Right.

- I went to hear Patty Callahan and she was talking and she had me stand up in the middle of her talk to introduce me to her fans, you know, it was just, it was stunning, you know, it was stunning and Mary Alice just, she just couldn't be nicer.

I am so grateful for her support, her wisdom, her advice, I mean, and she has, you know, decades of knowledge and they're always looking to invite people to the group.

- Back to the book on character names.

- [Gervais] Yeah.

- Did you do the same as Pat Conroy did?

Was there a certain name that you wanted and you picked somebody you knew?

- Okay, well, it's hard with names because I want to hit a Charleston name but not have it be so obvious.

- [Holly] Right.

- Simons is a name that is somewhere in our family.

So I feel like if someone that I know is a Simons is, you know, is that me?

I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, we still have that.

- [Holly] Yeah.

- So, names are funny though, because Lottie, I was looking at the name that I gave the grandmother.

I mean, that was just something I pulled out of the sky and I never really thought about, and I was like, if I had, would I have kept it?

- [Holly] Right.

- So a lot of it is really intentional and other times it's just, you're just on this path and your book is kind of going, and I don't necessarily always think was this the right match?

I don't know.

So it's a funny capricious mix.

- Yeah, like, why did I do that?

I like it but I don't know why- - I have no idea, I have no idea, yeah.

- Okay, one little thing we've stuck to this season that I want to ask you and I didn't warn you about this, I hope you can think quick, - Okay.

- Teacher, we've been asking a lot of our authors about teachers that may have inspired them along the way and with you, you know, this wasn't the plan.

So is there any advice along the way that a teacher gave you that always stuck with you?

Can you think of a name of a teacher, grade school, college, wherever along the way that really inspired you?

- I'm gonna go with it's a little, not exactly a teacher but she's my teacher in a way.

So Patricia McCarver was the director of the Citadel Public Speaking Lab and I was in grad school.

I got my MBA at the Citadel as well and I was a graduate student and so she taught me how to be a good professor and she just, she taught me, we're very complimentary, she's incredibly calm.

I can be a bit hyper and reactive and so she was the first female VP at the Citadel as well and I was very, very lucky to have been taken under her wing.

So that would, I would say she was my teacher, both in how to be better in the classroom, but also how to think about my career and what I wanted and I later assumed her position when she retired.

- Very nice.

All right, well, we are almost out of time.

Is there anything that you wanted to make sure that you said before we said our goodbyes?

Well, I just, I hope your viewers just wanna take a look at the book.

I think it's a lot of fun, PopSugar just said it's the next best thing to a trip to Charleston.

- [Holly] Oh, nice.

- So it's a lot of- - You don't have to worry about the one way streets or the flooding.

- Right, exactly, you can stay nice and dry right when you read the book, yeah.

All right, well, Gervais Hagerty is the name and thank you so much.

The book, 'In Polite Company.'

Thanks so much for coming to Beaufort.

I know it's not too bad of a day to have to come to be Beaufort and it's always a nice little drive from Charleston.

So thanks a lot for coming and thank you everybody for joining us for By the River.

We do love having you around.

We're gonna leave you now with our poets corner and you just might recognize this name, this voice, it's a family member.

She talked about mom, it's mom.

She's joining us.

We talked her into it.

She was in the studio and we said, "Hey, you can't leave.

We're making you do this."

So everyone, thanks so much for joining us.

We'll see you next time By the River.

(upbeat music) - [Barbara] Native daughter of austerities, the sky over this garden is ignorant, swallows chase the day like Isadora.

If I am too much here, my claims a native one, six Meyer lemons bloom in their terracotta pots.

The fountain repeats itself to the revolution of hours, prosperous novelist and minor movie stars occupy pastel mansions whose lots touch my leafy perimeters.

Winter is a rumor over Minneapolis, plan, air, artist, angle, easels to paint the enviable precincts.

On satellite maps, my house mimics a lucky playing card, clouds lull about like drunk tycoons, the harbor swirls with buttercup yachts, the branch office, runaway, Oprah suit, segue, moms mink, caper, bliss.

- When I first showed my manuscript to Mary Alice Monroe and she said that we need to build the grandmother character, I really thought long and hard about who I wanted this woman to be and how I wanted to represent her.

So this little bit I'm gonna read about is the grandmother Lottie and Tito is her husband, that's Simons's grandfather.

Don't let her cause you any trouble.

That's what Lottie's mother warned Tito the day they got married, as family history goes, Lottie was a stubborn girl who didn't take well to authority.

She snuck out of Sunday school to go crabbing.

When the boy down the street tried to kiss her, she threw rocks at him.

One took a chunk out of his cheek.

She hid her stockings under the logs in the fireplace and tossed her dolls up in the Magnolia trees.

Neighbors whispered about the eerie black smoke wafting from the chimney, the baby doll eating trees spooked the kids down the block but the Lottie we know has always been serene.

(upbeat music) ♪ - [Narrator] By the River is brought to you in part by the University of South Carolina, Beaufort, learning in action, discovered.

The ETV Endowment of South Carolina, Community Foundation of the Low Country, strengthening community.

Osher Lifelong Learning Institute at USCB, the Pat Conroy Literary Center.