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MALE_1: From the Keiko Miwa Ross WPSU production studio, this is Conversations Live.

Anne Danahy: Good evening.

I'm Anne Danahy, spring is here and in Pennsylvania, that means we have some warm sunny days along with cold and snowy weather, either way, it's still gardening season, and many of us are getting outside to plant cool-season crops, check on perennials and trees and plan for the summer.

Joining us to talk about all of that and answer your questions are two gardening experts.

Tom Butzler is a Penn State Extension horticulture educator.

He works with commercial horticulture operators and landscapers in Clinton County.

His areas of expertise include vegetable production and beekeeping.

Sara Hricko is a Penn State Extension horticulture educator in Columbia County.

Her areas of expertise include fruit trees and plant disease.

She manages a fruit farm with her husband.

You too can join tonight's conversation.

Our toll-free number is 1-800-543-8242 our email address is connect@wpsu.org.

Tom Butzler and Sara Hricko, thank you both so much for coming in to talk with us.

Tom Butzler: Thanks for having us.

Sara Hricko: Thanks for having us.

Interviewer: Tom Butzler, I thought you could start us off.

So the growing season is starting to get here, but it's not summer yet.

What do you have on your agenda for late April and early May in terms of either planning, or actually, getting out in the garden?

Tom Butzler: Yeah, there's actually a lot to do in the garden right now.

I mean, it is sunny and warm and you could get excited about getting into the garden and planting everything.

But there are some things you need to hold back on and that would be your warm-season vegetables.

And you alluded to that in the beginning with the term cool season.

So right now is a great time for those cool-season vegetables such as kale, cabbage, planting your peas, carrots, things like that.

So there's plenty to do in the garden that will carry you to that part of the warm season where you can put in your tomatoes, peppers, cucumbers.

Interviewer: And Sara, how about you?

What are you doing in late April, early May as someone who grows fruit trees.

Sara Hricko: So the season is a little bit early, so usually and we're currently finishing up our pruning, er, which is what everyone should be looking at, who has fruit trees in their yard too.

Um, the trees are starting to leaf out.

So it's a little bit, um, iffy, they may not still be dormant.

So you may hurt growth if you continue pruning now.

Interviewer: Okay.

So a little bit earlier on the pruning and depending on what you're seeing with- with your trees and your plants.

Sara Hricko: Yeah- yeah.

So I mean, usually we want to prune before the leaves start coming out.

We want to be done with the pruning.

Um, otherwise, it can keep the tree really short, um, and lose growth that way.

Interviewer: Okay.

And Tom, so you're talking about some of the things that you can still do before the summer season is here.

What- what about someone who's like, you know, you get anxious and you think, okay, I want to get those flowers in, I want to get some of those warmer-weather vegetables and fruits out there.

Can you kind of cut corners and cheat a little bit on that, or no, is it better just to kind of wait?

Tom Butzler: Well, I mean, there's two things you could do.

One for the warm season vegetables, you could start those right now from seed in the house.

You know, your peppers and tomatoes, eggplant, and so forth.

So that might give- get your, you know, green thumb going.

Or you can get some transplants that somebody already produced and create a little greenhouse out there in the garden.

Um, a plastic covering, something that's creating a micro-climate underneath that covering.

And that can cheat, you know, two or three weeks before that frost date that everyone gets kind of, ah, worried about.

So, yeah, you can push the limits a little bit in gardening.

Interviewer: And so we're actually looking at a picture of one right now.

So that's a kind of a cover and you can, as you were saying, cheat a little bit.

Tom Butzler: Yes.

Interviewer: And you said a little bit of protection in case you do get the cold weather.

Tom Butzler: Yes, for those folks who really need to get out there and- and get an early start, this- this is an- an option.

Interviewer: Right.

And the weather has been creating some real issues I would imagine on- on- for tree growers and other types of farmers because we had really warm weather and then it's gotten cold again and then it's warm again and we might get a little bit of cool weather still to come.

Sara, what kind of challenges does that present?

And is there anything you kind of can do to plan or respond to that?

Sara Hricko: Yeah.

So we saw, uh, it gets really warm ea- early in the spring here, even late- late winter.

Uh, and that got the trees really excited, started growing.

Uh, so we're looking at, uh, spring almost a month earlier than we normally would have expected.

Uh, so that means that we need to hurry up and as I said, get your pruning finished up.

Um, and pay attention to the temperature forecasts because anything between about 25 and 30 degrees right now, uh, can yield a 10-90% loss in your- in your fruit.

Um, and so I think there's a map here of the date of last frost based on your cold zones in Pennsylvania.

And so for this zone we're- we're right on the edge of like 656 as our- as our cold hardiness zone.

Um, and that last frost state can be between April 21st and the 30th.

Um, that being said, many growers have seen a frost into the first and second week of May.

Tom Butzler: Yeah.

Sara Hricko: So it's- it's really variable.

Interviewer: Right.

And then looking at that map, so right if- if you're up a little bit farther North, uh, then.

Tom, where you are, we're already looking in kind of more into the second week of May So you really have to kind of keep an eye on that.

I want to come back to that, ah, the map and some of the dates on that, but we- looks like we do have a call and this is from Dennis in Altoona.

Hi, Dennis.

Thank you for calling.

And do you have a question or comment?

Dennis: Yes, I have a question.

The question is we have a- a recycling for the plant, where we take our weeds and grass clippings and so forth, and they turn that into soil.

Is it- is it okay to use that soil in the garden?

Does the roundup and- and other chemicals do they- does that stay in that soil or is the roundup and other chemicals, uh, dissipated, is it- does it go away?

Interviewer: Okay.

That's a great question.

Tom, any thoughts on that?

So when you've got kind of a community compost, it sounds like.

Tom Butzler: Yeah.

So, you know, years ago that I think that would be more of a concern.

There are some broad-leaf herbicides that were- were utilized in lawn care and in other businesses that when those clippings were taken to the landfill- to a recycling facility, um, that compound would not completely break down and it was in the compost and people were taking that back to the garden.

And then we did saw- see some of this- more sensitive plants, such as tomatoes, uh, suffer or, you know, kind of had some damage to exposure to this herbicide.

But most of those things are not being utilized, ah, anymore.

Um, so it- it's something to ask the recycling center, you know- you know what's coming in?

Um, what are some of the rules or regulations?

But for the most part, I- I would use it in my garden.

I would use it in my landscape.

Interviewer: Okay.

And related to that, if- if people are throwing weeds into it, would you have to worry about the weed seeds getting in there too, or is that something that if it's composted, that it will- it should take care of it?

Tom Butzler: Well, if it's proper- if it's composted and things reach that high enough temperature, um, you know, most living organisms are killed.

You know, when there was enough rotation, aeration and moisture added, ah, yeah, a lot of those weed seeds don't make it, but if it's something that's, you know, done incompletely, that could be a concern.

Interviewer: Okay.

So again, maybe a chance to ask a couple of questions when you're picking up the compost.

We hope that helps and it looks like we do have another call And this one is from Jane in Johnstown.

Hi, Jane.

Thanks for calling, and do you have a question or comment?

Jane: Yes, I do.

Um, last fall, my husband planted a good crop of perennial flower and perennials.

And because of the very cold spell that we had on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day this past year, uh, he's very worried because not- he's not seeing any signs of the flowers coming through the soil.

And I was just wondering, uh, should we assume that we're not going to get any growth because the older perennials have already grown.

But the new ones that my husband just planted last fall, there's no sign of them.

So, ah, is there anything we should do or should we just be more concerned than ever?

Interviewer: Thank you, Jane.

And Sara, do you have any thoughts about that, about when you can kind of tell like, okay, or should we be patient and then hopefully give it a little more time and it might- they might be okay?

Sara Hricko: Yeah.

It's hard to say depending on the- on the perennials.

I know a number of them have already sprouted and- and flowered, so, um, there might be some concern there.

I would have expected most flowers to come up.

Tom Butzler: Yeah.

I- I agree, Sara.

I- Most of your perennials, ah, if they're well-established, should be able to survive.

But I think she mentioned that they were planted in the fall.

And so one, if they were plant- depending on how early or late in the fall, if it was late, they may not have been well-established.

Then two, you know, this, we've talked in the past about mulching, you know, putting two or three inches of mulch down, it insulates, um, everything underneath it.

You know, the ground may freeze, but it's a gradual freeze.

Some of these new plants aren't heaved out when you've got this freezing and thawing event, when you have a- a nice layer of mulch.

So, you know, that's one of those benefits of- of mulching that we've talked about in the past.

But I think I agree with Sara on that, and it's almost a wait, and see approach.

Maybe it's a perennial that's a little late and coming up.

Maybe you have to see that or it could be a perennial that's just- it just didn't make it through the winter.

Interviewer: Okay.

Well, Jane, we hope it does come back.

And related to that, so if we get another really cold winter, those cold snaps, is that something that she might like cover with a canvas or a blanket or something, and if there's fut- in the future, if they do make it, is that something that might work?

Tom Butzler: I- I think just- just mulch.

I mean, I guess you could say the idea of a blanket, but it's not really providing an insulating layer, I don't think.

Interviewer: Okay.

Tom Butzler: Unless maybe you put down like comforters [LAUGHTER] or something like that.

Interviewer: There you go.

Like a pillow.

Sara Hricko: Yeah.

Tom Butzler: Yeah.

Yeah.

But I think if you're going to be planting perennials, you want to plant earlier in the fall than later.

You want to- those plants to be able to get a little bit established.

I know some people will buy mom's- garden moms to put them on their porch, and then they'll try to plant them in- in mid-November.

They're not- those- those are perennials, but that late planting, they're not going to make it.

Okay.

That's great to know.

Well, good luck with that.

And it looks like we have a call from Carol in DuBois.

Hi, Carol.

Thank you for calling.

Do you have a question or a comment?

Carol: Hi.

Thank you for taking my call.

Um, I was calling, I have a question that we suspect that we have skunks or moles or something tearing up our lawn.

Um, I was wondering if there's any kind of application or anything that we can purchase, it's kind of more on the natural side to deter them from digging up our lawn.

It kind of looks like 100,000 golfers, heat off in our backyard.

[LAUGHTER] Interviewer: Yeah, we were- we were actually just talking a little bit about that, Carol, and that's a great question.

I mean, so Tom, you had your option for what you did with your skunks, right?

Tom Butzler: Right.

Yeah.

I- I was able to- I'm a beekeeper and I had some skunks that we're creating some havoc with- with the honeybees, and I just did a live trap, and- and I had a buddy nearby that had a large acreage and he agreed to take them, so I just transfer them from one location to the other.

It sounds like it's- it is skunks and not moles, when you talked about the number of divots because she'd used golf.

And so what they're going after are the,a larva of Japanese beetle, oriental beetle, green June beetle.

Those beetles and those females will lay their eggs in- in- in their lawn, and then those eggs hatch, and you get this little worm grub that burrows down, and that's a great food source for skunks.

I mean, there are- there are some nematodes that you can apply to a lawn.

There are some mixed results on that, so that's kind of a- a natural or organic way to- to control that.

Most folks are using an insecticide to- to kill the- the- those- those grubs, and then when there's no food source there then they- the, um, the skunks move on.

Interviewer: Okay.

Any other options for kind of deterring them when they come on your property or is pretty- pretty limited, and hope they pick the neighbors.

Interviewer: Dogs, okay.

Tom Butzler: Get a bunch of dogs, and all you may have to Tom Butzler: That or dogs.

do is some tomato baths, but- Interviewer: Yeah.

Okay.

Well, good luck with that.

We- we hope that helps and maybe you'll- you could be a little bit skunk free this summer.

And we have a call from Dawn in Rockaway, hi Dawn, thank you for calling.

[BACKGROUND] Hi Dawn, do you have a question or a comment?

[BACKGROUND] Dawn: Hello.

Interviewer: Hi, Dawn, we have you on, do you have a question or comment?

Dawn: Yes.

I have that pear tree- it gets- it's about five, six years old and it gets lots of pears on it.

But you only get to about the size of your little bit bigger than your thumbnail, and they turn real hard, and brown, and crack, and that's what I've been getting for years.

Interviewer: Do you know what kind of pear it is?

Dawn: Oh, no, I don't know.

Interviewer: Okay.

All right.

Um, either of you have any thoughts or suggestions?

Sara Hricko: Yeah.

So two things occurred to me.

Number 1, is there are some pears that just always stay small.

So like a circle pear is always going to be small no matter what you do pretty much.

They pack a punch, but they're always going to be on the small side.

Uh, the other thing too, she mentioned that her tree usually has a lot of fruit.

Um, so definitely commercially and homeowners should think about this too, is thinning, and that's taking some of the fruit off because a tree- a fruit tree is always going to produce way more fruit than it can or should realistically handle.

And that makes sense just because of nature, it's trying to reproduce.

So it's going to put out as much as possible just to account for if it loses some permafrost or it gets eaten or whatever the case may be.

So taking some of those fruit off, probably in about a month, you know, as- as the fruit start coming on.

Uh, you wanna do it earlier so that it gives the fruit that's left time to grow, um, to a decent size.

Tom Butzler: Yeah.

Interviewer: Okay.

They're still edible even if they're torn?

Sara Hricko: So I mean, if- if it's an immature pear, they're- they're not- if you're talking about the circle pears, um, they'll still mature, they'll stay small, and they're very sweet actually.

Interviewer: Okay.

Sara Hricko: Yeah, they're very sweet.

Interviewer: All right.

Well, that's good to know, we hope that helps.

And if you're just joining us, I'm Anne Danahy and this is WPSU Conversations Live, get your garden on.

We're talking with two gardening experts, and we want to hear from you.

Our toll-free number is 1.800.543.8242.

You can also email your questions to connect@wpsu.org.

And we have a call from Dwight in Saint Mary's.

Hi, Dwight, thanks for calling, and do you have a question?

Hi, Dwight.

Dwight: Can you hear?

Interviewer: Yes, we can hear you.

Dwight: Okay.

Here's, you know, I'm trying to start growing herbs, and I don't know when I plant them by seed, and I'm not quite sure when I should take them out of that road light situation and put them in, you know, a bigger pot.

I just- I- I just don't quite understand how to do it.

Interviewer: Okay.

All right.

What kind of herbs, any in particular?

Dwight: A whole bunch of them.

Interviewer: Okay.

[LAUGHTER] Dwight: I decided to go organic, so I'm doing a- a whole bunch of them.

Interviewer: Okay.

Dwight: Bay, garlic.

Tom Butzler: But, you know, I- I- I- I brought him up from seed and they look so good and I'm afraid transplant because in the past I've tried to do it and they died.

Interviewer: Okay.

All right.

Um, so do you have any tips for transplanting- Winton, when they are ready to transplant, how does he get a sense of that and any tips for doing it so he doesn't harm them when he's transplanting them?

Winton: Yeah.

Usually transplants are- You know they can be pretty hardy.

I mean, you still have to be gentle, careful with them, but I guess you- you want to make sure that you have a couple of leaves on it.

You don't want to transplant too early.

You know, they're still fra- fragile, so you know a couple of leaves on them.

Um, but I usually just get like a- a small screwdriver and gently just kinda tease it up.

And then I just dig a little hole and- when I pot up, and I just put- put it in- in that little hole kinda at the right level and it goes pretty good.

Um, you know the only thing I can think of is maybe, um, the environment you put them in after transplanting them, um, maybe it's not as humid, uh, maybe it's a little drier and so there's a little bit of transplant shock and it might be suffering that way, but, I mean I- I don't- Sara Hricko: The only other thing I can think of, um, and especially if they're going into the garden outside is maybe to put a fan on them right now inside to harden them off and toughen them up, um.

Winton: I was just thinking of potting them up, but you- you- you're right.

Sara Hricko: Yeah I know.

It depends if they're going outside Winton: Yeah- yeah.

Good point.

Sara Hricko: Yeah, having a fan on them for- as-not too long, but it kinda toughens them up before they go out into the garden.

Interviewer: Okay.

Because it's naturally going to be colder outside at night, so you want to get them used to that kind of?

Sara Hricko: Colder, windier, just harsher [LAUGHTER] So they won't just like fall over and get crushed.

Interviewer: Okay.

Well, we hope that helps and good luck with your herb garden.

And we have a call from John in Williamsport.

Hi John, thanks for calling.

And do you have a question or comment?

John: Yeah.

Hi.

Um, I was going through my dad's things.

He died a while ago and I went through his basement and I came across a bottle of drop dead twice.

Now what do I do with it?

Interviewer: Er, what- I'm sorry, what was that again?

Wha- what is the bottle of?

John: Drop dead twice, DDT.

Interviewer: Okay.

Okay.

Um, any thoughts on that?

What can you do with it?

I know that some counties have collections, right?

Winton: Yeah.

You know, some of the landfills will have special collections for household hazardous waste.

So that- that'd be an option depending on Williamsport and Lycoming County.

So I- I- I would contact the landfill to see when they're having that collection.

And then I know, Sara, for the farming community, the ag community, there is a program in place where they'll collect old un- unused chemicals, pesticides.

Now this is kind of a homeowner situation, but it's DDT.

I don't know how- where that would fall into it, but, uh, the Pennsylvania Department of Ag has that system setup, it's online.

They rotate that collection around the state.

It's like several counties every year and then they- they do another set of counties the following year and move that around.

So I think those are the two places I would start as your local, uh, county landfill and then, um, uh, Pennsylvania Department of Ag.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Yeah.

That program is called Kim Sweet.

Winton: Yes.

There you go.

Sara Hricko: Yeah.

So they do certain counties each year.

Um, I mean, it'd be worth contacting them to see if they would take that.

Winton: Because it depends on the quantity and I think, you know just yeah.

Sara Hricko: Yeah.

Interviewer: Yeah, that's good.

You want to find the safe way to dispose of it, so maybe the county or maybe the state.

So we hope that helps and you find a place for it.

And we have a call from Mike in Warren.

Hi Mike, thanks for calling and do you have a question or comment?

Mike: Yes, so I have several apple trees and I prune them every year and every spring, they are full of suckers again.

Is- am I doing something wrong or- or how do I mini- minimize the amount of suckers growing on those trees?

Interviewer: Okay.

Sara, um, first, maybe for people who aren't too familiar with it, what is a sucker and any thoughts on what he can do?

Sara Hricko: Yeah.

So I'm- I'm partially curious what kind of trees-, uh, what kind of apple trees they are.

And when we're saying suckers, I assume they're on the tree itself, not on the ground.

Interviewer: And are you still there?

Mike: Yes, I am.

Interviewer: And, um, did you catch that question?

So are the suckers coming out of the tree as opposed to the ground?

Mike: No.

They're coming out of the tree.

Interviewer: Okay.

And what kind of tree is it, specifically?

Mike: Well, there are different varieties of apples.

Interviewer: Okay.

Sara Hricko: Yeah.

So I mean, there- there are certain, um, pruning methods that you can follow.

Um, I don't know in this case, we- we had mentioned, you know, tall spindle trees where you keep it, you know, a central leader, um, or the open center and you cut off the middle.

Um, if you're keeping the tree small, it's gonna be important to- to, um, either cut the branch that you're pruning like all the way back, um, or like halfback.

If- If you just cut off the tip of- of the branches, it will send up a bunch of new growth off the end, um, so you'll get kind of a bottle brush deal- Interviewer: Okay.

Sara Hricko: Which might be what we're talking about.

Interviewer: So it depends on how you're pruning it.

So you might want to-, are there, um, either with the extension agents?

Are there ways to find out about the best way to prune?

Sara Hricko: Yeah.

So there are fact sheets online, um, at the extension website.

Um, I think you can just look up pruning, apple tree pruning, um, on extension at Penn State.

Interviewer: Okay.

And we're looking at a picture of a- of a crab apple right now, and it's kinda getting really bushy and then it's got a few offshoots there.

So any thoughts?

I'm like more over on the subject of pruning, what would you do in that case?

It means that okay to just kinda let it go or [LAUGHTER] is it better to- to.

Sara Hricko: Yeah.

I mean, it'd- it'd be nice to clean it up.

Um, definitely cutting off the- the branches at the base there because you want a nice-, um, a nice trunk.

Uh, this one would be best I think, pruning it to open centers.

So you- you wouldn't want a main stock up the entire center.

You'd cut that off and then allow the rest of the branches to kind of, um, umbrella out.

Um, and then it's helpful to clean it up, cut off some of the smaller ones- smaller-, um, smaller offshoots, and then keep it a little bit compact.

Interviewer: Okay.

All right.

Well that helps a lot.

Um, good to know about that.

And we have a call and this is from Sandy in Mill Hall.

Hi, Sandy.

Thanks for calling and do you have a question or comment?

Sandy: Oh yes.

Um, we have a bartlett pear tree, and the pears get dimpley and they're small.

I don't think has never been pruned or anything.

Fertilize, I will leave it there.

I don't even know if you need to fertilize those.

Yeah.

Any help would be appreciated.

Interviewer: Okay.

Um, so any thoughts on what she could do with that bartlett pear?

Sara Hricko: Yes.

So there- there are a couple of things.

Um, pruning in the winter, and- and when I talk about pruning, you almost always want to do it in the winter when, uh, the tree is dormant.

Um, again, otherwise you will stunt their- it's growth and it may, um, cause other fruit issues.

Um, so you want to prune in the winter when it's dormant.

And she mentioned that it may never have been pruned, so cleaning up some of those branches, uh, would be helpful and it would help the tree to put energy into the fruit as opposed to new offshoots, um, a new growth.

Interviewer: And so should she wait now that we're moving into- we're in late, you know, spring, the weather is getting warmer, should she wait until the winter or can she do anything this year?

Sara Hricko: Yes.

So, um, given that it sounds like it's a pretty vigorous tree, I would definitely go out and try and prune some.

Um, maybe not take care of everything all at one shot, but definitely some pruning would be helpful.

Again, the extension articles, um, would help in identifying what to prune.

Interviewer: Give some tips on that.

Sara Hricko: And even maybe a local master gardener would be able to help with that.

Interviewer: Okay.

All right.

Well, we hope that helps, Sandy.

And we have a call from Ted in Bedford.

Hi, Ted.

Thanks for calling.

And do you have a question or comment?

Ted: Hi.

I'm from New Jersey.

I moved here 10 years ago.

I have a nice garden and a nice yard, but the deer just come and eat anything they want.

Every morning, I knock on the window and I try to chase them, they just look at me and say, you can't catch me.

So my hostas are being eaten, my lilies are being eaten.

What can I do?

Interviewer: Yeah, I have a lot of empathy for that.

Any tricks or tips, suggestions?

Lots of fencing.

Tom Butzler: Yeah.

I mean, you know, like at the Penn State's research farm, there's a big deer problem coming off the- the mountains off the hillside.

And so they have a fence around the area to try to exclude them, you know.

But that's a lot- a big investment.

I mean, they've got to be, er, you know, a certain height and so forth.

Um, you know, I- I guess one thing you could do, there are some lists out there where there- there are some plants that are not as preferred as others.

And so maybe slowly transition the landscape over that way.

There are some products you can apply, um, that might deter the deer for a little bit, but then, you know, you'll read the literature and it will tell you that after a while, the- they'll get used to the scent or the smell and become accustomed to it.

And then just right back, you know, feeding again, browsing.

Um, so there's not- there's not a real- a lot of good options.

Sara Hricko: Yeah.

So, um, the one thing I thought of is what we do in small orchards.

We actually put dryer sheets upon the trees.

And so that'll work for 2-3 weeks and then you have to switch them out because it kind of loses the scent.

But it's kind of- I mean, it's an- relatively easy inexpensive thing to do and we have seen that it works.

Interviewer: Okay.

Well, that's great to know.

I think I'm going to try that dryer sheets because there are- sometimes there's different products and it seems like okay, maybe it works or do you put chili pepper?

That's one I've read about.

You can sprinkle chili pepper, but then it rains and the- the pepper is gone.

And then if you have fencing, that means you've got fencing all over your yard.

So maybe a variety of different strategies will enable you to at least have some of- some of the plants, if not everything kind of have a give-and-take with the deer on- on that one.

So I want to go back where you were talking a little bit about the- the growing season and it getting warmer earlier.

So is that a trend that we're seeing where growing season is starting earlier and earlier in most years?

Is that something that has been kind of continuing the past few years?

Sara Hricko: So I mean, I- I can't speak in general, but, um, from our farm in our area near Danville, um, last year, we did see that spring was about two weeks early.

Usually, we expect the fruit trees to start blooming the first or second week of May, um, and last year, it was, you know, about the middle of April.

This year it was the beginning of April.

Um, so is it a widespread general trend?

I'm not sure.

But over the last few years, I- I would say for sure, yeah.

Interviewer: Yeah.

And we're also looking at the rain patterns that we're seeing.

I think we have a map of that too in the rain and snowfall.

So we're- we had less rain and snowfall going into this spring season.

Is that something that gardeners or- or growers can do anything about or do we just kind of have to wait and see how things shake out?

Tom Butzler: I- I mean, yeah, for- for- if you're in commercial production or even a homeowner, you should have a plan in place to- to have water ready.

It- I mean, who knows what the seasons is going to throw at us?

As you see up on the slide there, it's a map of Pennsylvania and it's kind of showing, er, the- the precipitation up to this date and half the state is- is in deficit already.

And if we get into these- some of these hot-dry week's upcoming, you know, it will become even more of a deficit.

And so we had talked about it and you just showed a map earlier of what it's looking like.

Drought- there's a, um, a government drought watch site that shows, you know, parts of the state that are under drought watch and already we're under some moderate drought watches.

And that's- I think that's kind of early.

Maybe we'll have a wet spring.

Maybe things will work out.

But when you're growing vegetables or- or fruit, that- that- that product is almost 90% plus water.

So you have to have water or you're not going to have a- a- a nice plump juicy apple or an- a juicy tomato or a cucumber or a watermelon.

So we're growing things that are over 90% water.

You better have- better have it.

Interviewer: Right.

So, um, one option for that is to get- have some sort of water collector, water container.

Tom, what can you tell us about those?

How easy are they to set up?

Is that something you think people should take a look at?

Tom Butzler: Yeah.

So water collector, a rain barrel.

You know, something you could put up next to the gutter system, and they work great.

Now, you know, you may have to have multiple barrels setup depending on the size of your garden, but it's a great way to capture water, um, and- and store it and just be ready to go if we get into, you know, July, it's hot and dry.

Good way to get water there.

And, you know, you're- you- you're saving energy.

You don't have to draw from a pump.

It's not treated with anything because if you're on city water, you might have some chlorine or something else in it.

So, yeah, I- I think it's a great thing.

I think the only thing that per- homeowners are a little hesitant at with a- a- a- a pump- not a pump, a barrel next to the gutter is they're going to have to saw their gutter.

Interviewer: Okay.

Tom Butzler: So to, you know, to dire- be able to direct it into the, um, um, er- the barrel.

They're going to have to cut it.

Interviewer: Right.

Okay.

So it might make you a little bit nervous about whether you're doing it correctly and kind of biting the bullet and actually- Tom Butzler: Yeah.

Interviewer: -actually doing it.

Well, for professional growers, I mean, there's nothing- obviously you can't control how much rain we're getting, but do you start to worry already when you've seen below rain and snow levels or is it kind of wait and see?

Sara Hricko: Yeah- yeah.

I mean, especially as we move more to a high-density system with trellises and small trees, they require a lot more water, um, from- from us because the large trees that people are accustomed to seeing are able to store the water or they have a deeper root system so they can obtain water.

Um, so it's- it's harder now as we move to that system.

Now, we also use, um, rain collector- er, collection bigger than barrels, but, you know, off the roofs of our- our farm buildings, um, to collect water as much as possible.

Interviewer: So you have it- Tom Butzler: Just scaled up from a homeowner type system?

Sara Hricko: For sure.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Okay.

Well, we have a question and this is an email from Mary.

And Mary writes, I started castor bean seeds indoors under grow lights.

They're already 8-12 inches high and very leggy.

Do I continue to let them grow until I can plant outside?

Will they ever mature into a regular plant?

Should I start over again with new seeds?

Okay.

So she's got these leggy plants growing.

Um, Tom, any thoughts on that, any options?

Tom Butzler: Yeah.

You know, at least the initial thought is that it's very easy when you're starting something from seed in the house to- for things to get leggy.

You might put it by the- the window and they're trying to reach light, they get leggy.

Or you may use grow lights as in this situation.

But oftentimes the grow lights are too high or too far above the transplants.

Those grow lights need to be close to these- these small plants.

Otherwise, they just won't to stretch.

Interviewer: Okay.

Tom Butzler: And so just for the future- for future reference, you know, she starts castor beans next year, then grow lights are great, but they have to be placed appropriately so you get these nice, compact, stout plants that are ready to be transplanted.

Interviewer: Okay.

So try to keep them close then can- they can get farther away as they get longer.

Tom Butzler: Right.

As the- as the- as your transplants grow, you move the light up.

Tom Butzler: Yeah.

Interviewer: All right.

Well, we hope that helps Marry.

Interviewer: Okay.

And so she just go ahead though and give it a try, just plant the ones that she's got?

Tom Butzler: Yeah.

Once it- Sara Hricko: It can't hurt.

Tom Butzler: Yeah.

I mean, that's the fun of water culture.

You try different things and she mentioned that start over with new seeds?

Oh, okay.

Start- go ahead, start some new seeds kind of as backup.

But you- you might learn something.

Maybe castor beans that are leggy, they still survive very well.

I think that's the beauty of water culture.

Plants are, for the most part, relatively inexpensive.

Now fruit trees might be a little different, I get that.

But starting something from seed, I think that's kinda fun.

Sara Hricko: For sure.

Interviewer: Okay.

Well, good luck with that, Mary.

And we have a call from Michael in Altoona.

Hi, Michael.

Thanks for calling.

And you have a question or comment?

Michael: Yes.

I'm Michael from Sinking Valley.

Yeah, I have three, er, different kind of cherry trees.

But just before they get ripe, like a week or two, the cherries turn like black.

I wonder if I have a fungus or something on them.

Interviewer: Okay.

Um, any thoughts on that?

What might be causing that?

What he might do?

Sara Hricko: I'm trying to think.

It might- I mean, it sounds like some sort of disease.

I don't know.

There's a cheerio leaf spot that can affect fruit sometimes, but it is hard to say.

Nothing comes to mind right away.

Interviewer: Michael, are you there?

Has this been going on- Michael: Yes.

Interviewer: -for a couple of years?

Michael: Well, it started slow.

Just some of- some of them turned black.

And then eventually, most of the cherries turned black on me before they ripen.

Interviewer: Okay.

Sara Hricko: Yeah.

Is there any leaf spots on- on the leaves?

Interviewer: Yeah.

How does the rest of it look?

Michael: Yesterday, cherries turned black.

Interviewer: [LAUGHTER] Okay.

Well, could he maybe go to the- an extension agent or get- or get it tested?

Is there any oppor- opportunities or options for that?

Sara Hricko: Yes.

So if it's a disease, they can send it into the plaint disease clinic, right?

Um, and that- that's free to Pennsylvania residents.

They can send it to University Park, um, the- the plant diagnostic lab.

Interviewer: Okay.

All right.

Well, Michael, good luck with that and we hope they're able to help you pinpoint what the problem might be.

And if you're just joining us, I'm Anne Donohue and this is WPSU's Conversations Live, Get Your Garden On.

We're talking with two gardening experts and we want to hear from you.

Our toll-free number is 1.800.543.82- 42.

You can also email your questions to connect@wpsu.org.

Okay.

So while we're on the topic of diseases, let's talk about the' um, spongy plant.

I don't want to call it that.

Tom Butzler: Spongy moth.

Interviewer: Spongy moth.

Thank you.

Tom Butzler: Yeah.

Interviewer: That we're seeing in large parts of Pennsylvania this year and it's been going on for a couple of years.

The kind of ebb and flow.

Tom Butzler: Yeah.

Boom or bust.

Yeah.

Interviewer: Right.

And we're booming right now in some parts of the state.

Tom, for people who aren't that familiar with them, why is this spongy moth such a concern and what can be done about it?

Tom Butzler: Yeah.

So first I just wanted to say spongy moth is the new name for gypsy moth.

So, you know, this- this transition that started last year on the- on the name.

But it's a- it's a- the larval stage is the one- the stage we're really worried about because it's a very gregarious leaf feeder and it will defoliate trees.

And we saw that last year in Central Pennsylvania where whole hillsides were just completely stripped of their- their leaves.

And so the DCNR here in Pennsylvania, state agency, every year does an egg count, an egg mass count, to determine what this upcoming year is going to be like.

And they found through their egg counts that this year is going to be pretty rough.

And in fact, the latest figure I saw, they're going to be spraying over 300,000 of state-owned land to try to control this insect.

Now that does nothing for private owned land, of course.

So you can see on the screen right now is the survey map that they put out, DCNR put out.

And it's showing places where they did the survey and the number of egg masses they found per- on a per acre basis.

And you can see in the center part of the state that the egg mass count is very high.

And that would include Clinton County and- and Center County and some of those counties up going towards the New York border.

Interviewer: So if people are not sure if their area is going to get sprayed, are treated or not, I guess, is that something they might want to think about doing if they're seeing a lot of the egg masses?

Tom Butzler: Yeah.

So a lot of landowners, either they have large acreage like hunting cabins.

They could contact or contract to a private, to pesticide applicator, the fixed wing or helicopter that would come in and spray.

Some smaller landholders would get the band together and then try to find someone that coming out and take care of that.

On a homeowner scale, I mean, there are- your options are- are a little more limited.

You can't rent a helicopter.

However, I did hear some folks were contracted out to bring someone in with a drone that we're going to be spraying individual trees with a drone.

Interviewer: Okay.

Tom Butzler: And, you know, so that might be an option in the future.

I'd- I'd like to see that in action.

But yeah, so they're just hatching out.

I went and looked at some of the egg cases on my trees in my yard and they are hatching out.

So we're going to start seeing what's going to happen.

Interviewer: Seeing the effects from that.

Sara, is that something that affects fruit trees too?

Sara Hricko: So not really the spongy moth.

We've seen the tent caterpillars affect our younger trees.

And again, the high density trees are more susceptible to everything.

Apple trees, however, not like a main food source or have a main problem with the spongy moth.

Interviewer: Okay.

Well, that's one positive, I guess.

So they're going to leave you alone for a little for now anyway.

Okay.

Well, that's good to hear.

So on the other side of that, we wanted to talk about kind of the positive insects pollinators and why they're important and what people might think about if they want to attract pollinators to their garden.

Tom, so you're beekeeping experts.

Why are they important?

Are we just talking about bees?

Are there other options for pollinators?

Tom Butzler: Well, you know, the honey bees are important.

They are pollinators, but it's a domesticated animal and it's- it's something that we can move around to- to pollinate fruit trees, for example, or go- or the apple or the almond trees out in California or the blueberry fields up in Maine, we can move that insect population around.

Whereas the other pollinators, like a lot of our native pollinators, we can't easily move around.

I mean, they're there.

It's great to take advantage of them.

But yeah, I mean, honey bees and other pollinators are really important because they're moving that pollen around from one flower to another and that's where we get our- our- our fruit, our- our- a lot of our vegetables.

Interviewer: And Sara, you're actually helping out with some research on that front, right?

Sara Hricko: Yeah.

Yeah.

So we're doing some independent work on our farm and also working with Penn State Entomology to put up bee hotels for solitary orchard bees.

So they're ones unlike honey bees that- that function in a hive or in a group, they do it themselves.

And so our bee hotels, they have a bunch of holes in them and the bee will go in there, the female bee, and plant an egg, leave some food and then seal that egg off with mud and then keep planting eggs in that hole, usually about 15 for the orchard bees.

So- and then one orchard bee can actually do the work of a few thousand honey bees.

Tom Butzler: They're very efficient pollinators.

Yes.

Interviewer: Oh, that must be amazing to actually watch that and see that.

Sara Hricko: It's- it's really cool.

Interviewer: To see that there.

Sara Hricko: But they're- they're are a lot smaller in there.

They're- some of them are blue and yeah, they're really neat.

Interviewer: Oh my gosh.

So for people who might be a little bit leery of bees, they do have their positive side too.

We want to keep that in mind.

Tom Butzler: Yeah, they- I- I don't think there's too many negative signs for po- for pollinators.

I mean, they all serve a role or a function, so yeah.

Interviewer: And for someone who might be thinking about starting a pollinator garden, are there particular plants or trees or shrubs that might be a good place to start?

Tom Butzler: Yeah.

You know, there are- there are- we could probably talk a whole hour on- on what, you know, could comprise a pollinator garden and there are some really good lists out there.

But I think a couple of things you need to keep in mind when doing a pollinator garden is, one, you want to provide a food source.

Something that can provide pollen and nectar throughout the whole season.

You don't want to plant one flower that's a bed of something that flowers in the spring and there's nothing else for those pollinators to work the rest of the year.

So you want to have the succession of blooms.

And then the other thing is the plant in mass when we talk about drifts.

So you're planting not one or two flowers, but a good size collection of each flower.

So those are two big things to- to- to keep in mind, but it's just not flowers.

The other thing is, there's woody plants that- that are- are- are nectar sources or pollen sources.

So for example, right now and it's almost over, but maple trees, when maple trees are blooming, and the flowers are tiny but they bloom early, it's an early season pollen source for pollinators.

So- and there's great list out there to get a hold of.

And you can landscape your whole yard with the idea that I'm going to try to- to help out the pollinators.

Interviewer: Okay.

That's great to know.

And we have a question and this is from Jeff who emailed us.

He says, I'm fortunate to have a small garden plot at the Penn State Community Garden this year.

I started preparing the plot for my first season tonight and I noticed it's adjacent to black walnut trees.

I've heard that walnut trees might have a negative effect on some gardens.

Is this true?

If so, is there anything I should keep in mind as I prepare?

Are there any particular crops that might be more at risk of being impacted?

Yeah, I think they've got like a black walnut research area right there.

So depending on how far away your garden plot is from the walnuts.

Any thoughts, Tom, on the potential negative effects of the black walnut?

And what- Tom Butzler: Well, he is correct.

I mean, black walnut trees exude a toxin, a chemical that, you know, it's a way to try to reduce competition.

So there are a lot of plants that are susceptible, and one of them being, as an example, tomatoes.

And tomatoes are probably the most popular garden plant.

Go to any garden, they're there.

So I think one thing you could- probably might want to do is use raised beds.

And that way you're- you're- you're getting that tomato rooting zone out of the area where this chemical might be being secreted by the black walnut tree.

Now not every vegetable is susceptible.

You'd have to get a hold of a list.

I don't- there's some that you could get away with.

Off the top my head, I- I- I don't know what those are.

I mean, I would think kale.

I like kale.

I would think kale might- might work, but you'd have to get a hold of that list.

But the reason I brought up tomatoes is it's just so popular.

I can't imagine a garden without tomatoes or peppers.

So some of those plants are susceptible to that.

Raised beds might get you out of that.

Interviewer: Okay.

And it also depend on how far away he- the- his garden plot is from the walnut trees, like if he's outside of their range so to speak?

Tom Butzler: But you got to worry also about the leaves, have got to worry about the- the- the walnuts themselves.

It's just not the roots that are exuding that- that- that- that- toxin.

So you could try.

I mean, again, I've always said, horticulture is the big science experiment.

You could try.

Interviewer: Okay.

Good advice.

So you could try.

And then if- if things don't go so well, maybe think about having a raised bed.

And we have another question from Bill who emailed.

I've been in this home for 35 years and in the last five years, we've noticed the deer are now eating plants, hostas, tomatoes that they never touched in the past.

Are plants changing to become more attractive to deer?

Okay.

So are the deer just omnivores or when it comes to plants, or is there something in the plants that is attracting them?

Sara Hricko: So the things that come to my mind are, number 1, is the- the normal food service of the deer being diminished is it going away.

They don't, you know, they don't have that food source anymore, so they're looking for something to eat.

Um, or is there something else?

Because usually dear follow a particular path and that's a very regular thing.

Um, so obvious something interrupted their normal path and now it's taking- taking them past these hostages and tomatoes.

Um I'm not sure.

Interviewer: Okay.

Tom Butzler: Yeah.

I- I agree with Sara.

I, you know, they have a fruit, a fru- a preference list.

But if those top choices are not there or not available, they'll just move down the list.

And so, you know, that's what- it was the first comment that she made there is that there are other food sources just may not be there or readily is available so they got to eat.

Interviewer: Okay.

And so that's what you were talking about, some of the options we're trying to deter them, maybe doing that, especially if you're worried about your tomatoes or your hostas, or if there's particular plants that you're worried about trying some of those different options?

Sara Hricko: Yeah- yeah.

I mean, I- I would definitely stand by that.

[LAUGHTER] [OVERLAPPING] Tom Butzler: On the tomato thing I mean- Interviewer: Put them on the sticks?

Tom Butzler: I was just going to say maybe, you know, some people stake their tomatoes with a wooden stake and then tie it up on the stake.

But you can get those circular caged things that- that allows the tomatoes to stay upright and maybe a caged tomato might deter, um, you know, feeding activity, at least on the tomatoes.

You don't cage hostas, but.

Interviewer: Okay, well, we hope that helps.

And we have a question from Esther and she writes, I had established vegetable garden for- for years, but four years ago, I built four- eight by four raise beds over my garden.

I have already had to refill my beds two years ago due to settling.

Now they seem to be half full again.

What's the best soil mix to add and how do I keep the soil from compacting so much?

The weight of the soil is pushing the cedar beds out.

Okay.

So is that just normal that they would just continually compact and you'd have to add to it or there's something going on?

Tom Butzler: I don't think anything's going on.

I just think when you put soil and it's kinda lose is eventually going to settle in those pore spaces are going to be crushed or minimize.

I guess, you know, I'd be curious on what kind of soil is, I mean does it contain a lot of organic matter or compost?

And if that's the case, you know, that is decomposing and kinda going by the wayside.

And so you've got everything just kind of shrinking down.

Interviewer: Is there a particular type of soil mix or something that she should look for when she's buying it?

Any tips on soil?

You just got a- Tom Butzler: I think it's always going to settle- I think it's always going to settle out.

I don't know.

Sara Hricko: Yeah, that's what I would think.

Um, also maybe watching your moisture content and how much is being watered.

Interviewer: Okay.

And is it, um, when you go to a hardware store or the gardening supplies store, can you just pretty much by any type of soil or does it just depend on what you're planting?

Tom Butzler: I guess it depends on what you're planting.

I mean, when you go to, you know, a store, there's a lot of bags there that you can use for gardens.

Some of it is soilless, so contains peat moss, vermiculite, perlite, and a lot of people will use that for, um, vegetable trays or- or pots.

Um, and then you do have just soil.

And then usually people will use those and like raised beds and things like that.

So maybe there's a little bit of maybe she's not- I don't know.

We don't- can't ask questions, but, you know, I don't know exactly what she's buying.

So she may be buying something that's got a lot of peat moss and some other things and that just compresses.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Okay.

Well, Esther, we hope that helps and good luck with that.

And one option for people who are looking to buy either flowers or vegetables or other decorative landscaping, is the master gardeners have their plant sales coming up, right?

And you can also get some tips and suggestions on that those- and pretty much every county.

Tom Butzler: I know the ones that I'm involved with.

They have master gardener programs that have planned sales.

I don't know about your way, Sara.

Sara Hricko: Yeah- yeah.

Tom Butzler: I mean, they- they they use a lot of times it's fundraisers.

Um, so they can do some other activities.

And they're great.

Those plants cells are great.

One, because you do have plant people you can talk to and throw some questions out.

But you can get some unique, ah, plants.

You know, when you go to some of the box stores and buy tomatoes, what's your choice?

Four or five different types of tomatoes.

Sara Hricko: Yeah.

Tom Butzler: But I mean, there are hundreds of different types of tomatoes and a lot of times your gardeners, they want to try these unique things and there might be some of these unique tomatoes as an example for sale at these master gardener plant sales.

Interviewer: Okay.

Um we have a couple of minutes left.

One of the other pests that we haven't gotten to is this spotted lantern fly and that's been a real problem in past years.

How big of a problem is it and what are we seeing?

Is that something that's still a concern, Sara, from your perspective as a fruit tree grower?

Sara Hricko: Um, so thankfully, we haven't seen it for the tree fruits like apples and peaches.

It- it tends more towards vineyards and grapes and small fruits.

Um, so luckily for the tree fruits not so much.

Now what they do love are the Tree of Heaven, um, which is a common read- redone orchards.

Um, so it's interesting because we see them in the orchards, but they don't really seem to hurt the- the trees or the tree fruit.

Interviewer: Okay, well, that's good news, I guess.

I mean, it looks like looking at that map here, I mean, it looks like they're really just spreading pretty much across the state.

Is there anything at this point to be done?

Tom Butzler: So, yeah, when you look at that map, it's up on the screen.

If you look at it, it originally started in a very small area of Southeast Pennsylvania, only a couple of several years ago.

And you can see now that it's over two-thirds of the state and it's beyond our state.

It's in eight different states now.

I think eight different states.

And so this idea of containing it, I just don't think that's going to work.

And one of the things they are seeing is that it's kinda like the spongy mouth kind of a boom and bust.

You know, the population explodes in some areas, but then kinda levels off and hopefully it's just gonna be something in the background.

Just background pest issues, maybe not as devastating as we originally thought.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Well, we have a couple of minutes left here and I just thought we could talk about what we're looking forward to with this growing season.

So Sara, what are you looking forward to as we are seeing this warmer weather come in?

Sara Hricko: Yeah, I just kinda wanna see what- what the weather's gonna do because again, we- we saw a drought year, we saw really wet year.

You know, kinda what-what's it gonna be next?

Interviewer: And what impact will that have on your growing.

Sara Hricko: Yeah, exactly- exactly.

Interviewer: And keeping an eye on that.

And Tom, how about you?

What are you looking forward to as we go into the growing season?

Tom Butzler: Yeah.

So I- I have a bunch of redbud trees on my property and within the community and I collected a lot of seed last fall, a couple of five-gallon buckets, and so put them out over this past winter in an area and I'm curious to see how many of them are going to germinate.

So you can kinda plant them out over the property and give them away.

I mean, they're in full flower right now.

As you're driving around, it's those kind of pink flowered trees.

And, I mean, there's just a beautiful native shrub.

Interviewer: They are beautiful.

And we have another minute left.

So maybe you could just talk a little bit about when it comes to watering those and watering your garden in general.

Um, if we do get into a dryer season, are you liberal with watering?

Is there a technique to it for something like that when you're starting out with a new plan?

Tom Butzler: Yeah new plant, you really need the water and of course.

And you know any woody ornamental you're going to have to water it throughout the growing season.

But if you're talking about watering vegetables, really the only thing you need to be concerned about that is make sure you keep the water off the foliage.

The-the leaves when they are wet, that's when you get these disease organisms that come in and create some problems.

So if you're going to water, avoid sprinkler overhead irrigation, put it down near the base of the plant, you know, at the soil line.

Interviewer: Okay.

And Sara, I don't know if that's something that you can do.

If we are in a dry weather or drought situation, you've got fruit trees.

Do you just kind of have to deal with it or do you have watering systems?

Sara Hricko: Um, so again, with the ah- with the high density systems, we're seeing a lot of irrigation being put out.

And we have irrigation in our newest block too um, just because the smaller trees don't have the deep root systems and they can't sustain a drought like the- like large trees.

Interviewer: Well, that's great to know.

And you guys had a lot of good advice and we've got a lot of questions tonight, so that's super helpful as we head into the growing season.

Tom Butzler and Sara Hricko, thank you both so much for coming in to talk with us.

Tom Butzler: Thanks.

Interviewer: Our guests tonight have been Penn State Extension Educators, Tom Butzler and Sara Hricko.

I'm Anne Danahy.

Thank you for watching and listening to WPSU, get your garden on.

And please join us again on May 25th for a special conversation on the 2023 Farm Bill and why it matters in Pennsylvania.

We'll talk with Pennsylvania congressman , Glenn GT Thompson, who's chairman of the House Agriculture Committee, and Georgia congressman, David Scott, ranking member on the committee, along with Richard Rouse, Dean of Penn State's College of Agricultural Sciences.

MALE_1: Re-watch this and previous episodes of conversations live and more of your favorite WPSU programs on the PBS APP.