(upbeat music) - Hey y'all, I'm Kiara Butler and welcome to Generation Rising where we discuss hard-hitting topics that our diverse communities face every day.

And joining us today from Tiverton High School are Gabriela Croft, Lauren Lewis and Judy Moore.

They are on a mission to close the gender gap in technology with their club, Girls Who Code.

Hey ladies.

- Hi.

- Hi.

- How are y'all?

- Good.

- Great.

- I'm so happy to have you on the show today.

Y'all happy to be here?

- We are happy to be here?

- Yes, sure.

- So what brings you all to Girls Who Code?

How did it start?

Judy, do you wanna kick us off?

- Sure.

So it started when I was attending a Computer Science Teachers of America Rhode Island Chapter meeting and one of the presentations at the meeting I attended was, Girls Who Code from another Rhode Island High School.

And after hearing the girls themselves talking about the code and the mission behind it, I thought that it would be something really great to bring back to Tiverton High School.

So Girls Who Code is about inclusiveness about welcoming girls and girls who or the folks that identify as girls and even non-binary people.

So it's welcoming, it's a place to learn code, to not be free to express yourselves as you're going through the process of digging through this mystery of what is code.

- Yeah.

Gabriela, what about you?

- Well, I first found out about the club in Miss Moore's intro to computer science class.

I originally started taking the class 'cause of my tech requirement.

So I wasn't really expecting to get anything from it, sorry.

But I ended up really enjoying it and I didn't realize how much coding really made everything around us.

And becoming part of that club, I really enjoyed finding a new way to be involved in creating the world.

- And when you say made everything around us, what do you mean?

- Well, like all the technology around us, all the computers that we use, even just in our computer science class.

Like hearing that all of that was just massive lines of code was kind of like people can do that.

That felt crazy to me.

- It sounds a little bit like the Matrix.

What about you Lauren?

- I had Miss Moore's class as well in my sophomore year and she came up to me and she's like, there's this program and it's called Girls Who Code.

And I was like, that sounds really cool.

And when I was in middle school I did Cyber Patriot which was also a different form of coding.

So I was like, that's awesome that they have something different in high school for me to join into.

And I didn't know as much going into the club but it definitely expanded my horizon on understanding like different forms of coding and it was just an eye-opener and I'm thankful that she let me join the club.

Was awesome.

- That's what's up.

What is a typical day like?

- So the way that the meetings are structured and again it's a loose structure that we have the flexibility to run the club as we wish.

But it starts with a warmup activity.

It could be a leadership activity or it could be a kind of a deep dive into computer science pioneers, women that have made major contributions in the technology sector going back to Ada Lovelace who was one of the first coders back in the 1800s.

She was coding a mathematics machine that her husband invented.

- [Kiara] Wow.

- So women have been involved in coding right along for quite a long time but just over years there has become this gap and that is the gap that we are trying to fill, the Girls Who Code mission to get rid of this gender gap that is so prevalent out in industry.

- Is it something that you go to after school, after class?

Can you go during the day?

Tell us more.

- It's more of an after school program.

But we hang out and it's like very like welcoming.

Like as soon as you walk in it's like you feel a part of something.

It's like there's no like nervous feeling like everyone's very welcoming and yeah I enjoy it.

- And then Judy you mentioned that there's other clubs across the state, I think there's maybe 10 or so.

- Yeah.

So throughout Rhode Island and Southern Mass when I was looking at... Researching of what clubs are active right now there are other clubs in the area but nothing really close neighborly to us.

So the northern part of the state western part of the state there are other clubs though.

- And so given like since the pandemic, have you all been able to work together with those other clubs or do you typically just work within the high school Girls Who Code club?

- Typically within the high school.

- Within the high school.

So let's chat more about the gaming perspective of coding.

Like what has that opened up for you in terms of like figuring out who you are or like the makeup of your community, those sorts of things.

Have you learned anything new about yourself?

- I feel like oftentimes for people that play video games a lot of like the characters are created by men in the field and I feel like sometimes that gives like an off-putting like body image for certain women or non-binary people to feel like they have to look a certain way.

And in Girls Who Code there's like different games and coding things where you can like create your own characters and stuff and I feel like that gives a more like you can create what your body looks like and not necessarily be super skinny and like all these non-realistic images and it's just comforting knowing that like you can create characters that look more human-like than like fake.

- [Kiara] Is there anything you would add to that Gabriela?

- I would just say there's a lot of expectation that most people playing these games are all men which is not true.

So the idea of having women programmers in there is a good way for us to see what everyone wants to see and not just appealing to the male gaze all the time.

And I think it's important that people know anybody can look like anything.

There's no one way to look or to be and it's not just what men wanna see out there.

- Would you say the club has impacted your future aspirations or goals?

Any?

- I would.

Before I joined the club I didn't really know anything about coding, I never really even like considered it as part of a career option.

But after joining the club and seeing like just how hard it is and how much effort it takes and really just how brilliant all these women involved, especially Ms. Moore are, I just found it really impressive and I wanted to be a part of that.

And even now I'm planning to minor in computer and science.

- Wow, okay.

What about you?

- I thought that the club was very inclusive and that I learned a lot from Ms. Moore and I was very lucky and that in the future one day maybe I'll go into like education for computer science and like teach other girls like, coding isn't just a man's thing.

Like you can do it yourself as well.

It's gonna be hard work but we can definitely do it.

- And then Judy, from your perspective in hearing their responses is this what you've visioned for the club or?

- Yes, thank you ladies.

Yes and when Lauren was talking about the coding behind it, especially about games even though Girls Who Code isn't just about gaming but currently about 70 to 77% of games are developed by men and they represent about in their games the female population within the games is 20%.

But as Gabby mentioned half of game players are women.

Females and...

The representation of the code and when they see the girls in the games they don't look like real people.

So what Girls Who Code has released is this, Girls Who Code Girls and it lets... And we've all played with the app.

It lets you really design the character within the game to look however you want it to look, what body type and make them look like real women.

It's empowering and that's what we need as we close this gender gap is to get women in the field to be representatives of the field and the coding.

- And now there's this like wave of AI that's swooping through technology.

Have you all seen an impact of that in the club?

- Yeah, well with this happening now is, every year the club has a club project a group project that we can participate in.

We haven't participated in the past, it's something that's newer with Girls Who Code.

This year's project and I was telling Lauren on the way up is an AI financial literacy project.

So that is what I hope to inspire and work on this year.

And I believe it's a competition between other codes too.

So that'll have a little fun twist to it.

- [Kiara] Definitely.

- But it's to educate people either be via an app a interactive game or some other source of media that the Girls Who Code chapters will design about financial literacy.

So we're hitting two things at the same time.

- Yep.

And so you all have talked about this a little bit, being surrounded around, I think that's the correct way to say it women has that like empowered you in other areas of your life outside of school or outside of the club?

- I definitely feel like less intimidated to join different clubs or activities that are like majority of like men.

I feel like sometimes other women or non-binary people might be afraid to join a club or a certain activity because there aren't people who identify like they do.

And I feel like if I'm able to be comfortable with myself and put myself out there that maybe I'll be able to get other people to do the same thing and join me and do other activities as well.

- What about you?

- That's kind of how I feel is that I never really had a very collaborative female environment like that before in my life.

And everyone was so like kind to one another and willing to help one another and I guess I kind of realized that it's okay to ask for advice and it's important that women are there to help one another in any environment because it's not always been that way.

And it's really valuable to have those relationships that you can rely on and ask for help even if you're the only two people in the room that are women you can help one another and you don't always have to rely on men to do everything.

- Like the 'Barbie' movie, you all seen the Barbie' movie?

And so you two are seniors, is that correct?

- Yes, that's correct.

- What would you tell a ninth grader or what grade does the program start?

- They can start in third grade.

- Third grade.

How do you get involved?

What would you tell someone who's like, how do you get involved?

- So for us, I got involved because of Ms. Moore.

So if you're in a computer class, I would say talk to your computer teacher and like see if they have the club in your school and if so, I would definitely join it because you'll learn so many things and you'll meet so many great people in the club.

It's just amazing.

- [Kiara] What about you?

- And I would say even if you have no experience or even if you're not even sure if coding is something you'd be into I think it's worth giving it a try because that's how I felt and I wasn't really aware of the impact coding had in technology until I joined.

So I think you get to see something new if you just give it a chance.

- And miss... Now I'm calling you Ms. Moore.

Is there like an application process or anything?

- There's not.

Just come to a meeting, join up in the middle or come and try it out.

The curriculum is designed so that one student can start, they can pick the computing language they want to work on, they can pick the level, they can pick the theme that they want to do.

So it goes from everybody from beginner to at very advanced wherever your level and your comfort level is.

So it's not like a traditional classroom where a teacher stands up and teaches anything.

The students go through and pick and choose what they think they're interested in and start coding it.

And there are like little video snippets and instructions vary, it brings you right through a step-by-step process to code and they're free to work together, it's very collaborative environment.

Coding is a collaborative environment.

Even in industry coders don't always work alone in silos.

They do what's called pair coding and businesses found that it just makes it much more efficient as they code and design products.

- Is there like a project that y'all are working towards for the end of the year?

- Well, hopefully this AI finance- - The AI finance?

- The financial literacy one.

So it's brand new so we have to open it and see what it's all about.

- Alright.

And then is there anything that I haven't asked you that you wanna talk about and tell our viewers more about?

- I think that sometimes you might feel like you need a little push to do something but in the end like it's you that you need to give the push and it's like when you wanna start something like Girls Who Code like not many people are gonna start altogether at once.

It might start small, but like as people see what you're doing and the capabilities that you have you might gain more followers and help teach other people to do things like coding as well.

- What about you?

- I just think my main point is just help each other.

Like if you see someone that seems like they're interested but they don't really know if they're capable of it you need to be that push for them like Lauren said because they might realize that this is something they really like and if they don't give it a chance they'll never know how much it means to them.

- And y'all all have talked about this a little bit about it being a man dominated profession.

What can you tell us more about the history of coding for women?

- My research has uncovered that a lot of the problems with... 'Cause people are wondering why do we have this gap in computer science with girls.

And some of the research indicates that it goes back to when girls are young girls and they think something is hard so they don't give it a try.

Right on to look at the advertising, it used to be, it's getting a little better but any advertising, any brochures even for colleges, posters about coding there you see men or boys at the computers and you don't see as many girls.

So changing that and I see a little bit of a change when I'm looking at college brochures.

I look up computer science programs in college you'll still see men you might see a woman.

You do a Google search on computer science and we need to change that.

We need to change the look of it so that young girls see yeah, it's just as equal women and men.

But I think they see that and the research has shown that and they are afraid and thinking, that's a boy thing.

- I know growing up for me I had a MySpace page and for the MySpace page you pretty much code everything.

And so I was in maybe middle school in the beginning of high school coding my MySpace page to look however I wanted to.

I could add colors, I could add music, I could add pictures but I never knew that that was coding until I got to college.

And I was like, wait, I was inserting HTML codes into a back page so that it then created my website on the other page.

And so in thinking about all the things that you can create, have you all created anything like a social media platform or what have you all created in the club that you can say I did this, I was behind the scenes.

Anything?

- Right now I was working on different characters for video games and stuff and I was kind of focusing more on making them more realistic instead of how they're portrayed right now.

So I was excited to do that and like if at any time I have a question Ms. Moore or Gabby or other members of the group are always like there to help me and figure it out.

So yeah.

- [Kiara] Have you created anything that you wanna be proud of?

You can tell our viewers.

- I mostly just worked personally on smaller like pixelated game kind of things, it's what I like.

And my main goal is just making a game that nobody feels they can't be a part of it.

I want it to seem like a world that a boy could be into, a girl could be into because colors and pictures flowers and pink are not just for girls, blue and motorcycles are not just for boys.

So I want everyone to feel they can be whoever they want in my games.

- So implicit bias, it's around us, no one's immune to implicit bias.

I'm sure that there's bias in technology and in coding.

Can you all talk to us a little bit more about how that bias is mitigated?

- Yeah, I'll touch on that.

Gabby brought up a point about colors for example.

Well, if 77% of coding is done and gaming by males, then there's definitely going to be implicit bias right there.

So again, with a more diverse workforce and within coding then you would have more representation of people's ethnic backgrounds, color and just what... And male female and those that represent male female.

You'd have more of a fair representation within our coding.

- Have you all noticed any other biases in coding or in technology?

Computer science.

- I feel like oftentimes when men create things they try to think like a woman or like a non-binary person and that oftentimes like they're not able to exactly think like us.

So I feel like if like women are more into coding they can have a better representation about like different like video game characters or like so many different things that like they'll be able to like understand themselves and maybe other women will also be able to understand and feel the same way.

(upbeat music) - Yeah, I mean I've tried to get into coding but my cleavage is just so distracting.

- I can't code because my long eyelashes make it hard to see the screen.

- I mean I get lost in them.

- Plus it's hard to keep my eyes open with these auburn strands of mink constantly weighing them down.

- When I'm not menstruating, I'm ovulating.

So there's no time to code at all.

- It's super hard to code when every month your insides are ripped from your body in slow motion.

- Every hour I have to get to the bathroom to change my tampon.

Otherwise you get toxic shock syndrome that leads to getting your arms amputated.

Obviously that makes it even harder to code.

- My boobs like really prevent me from coding.

- I don't even have boobs yet and they still get in the way.

It's crazy.

- It's hard to code when you can't stop crying - Or when you're having mood swings like here comes one now.

- Totally.

- Coding is just too rational when I'm this emotional.

(upbeat music) - What recommendation would you have for someone who has the power and the access and the influence to create things like you're saying.

What should they do as like a first steps to eliminate bias?

- I guess just make sure your words get out there.

If someone tries to shut you down, just don't listen to them because there's gonna be people who don't agree with what you're trying to do and you can't let that stop you because if you have the ability and the voice to say, I don't think this is fair or I don't think this is right, then you should say it.

And I think if you see something in your environment, if you're working on something and you see something that you don't think everyone can relate to, then I think that you should just speak up about it and just be honest.

- Or just ask people like, how can I be more inclusive?

How can I make sure that your voice and your experience is included in the things that I'm creating.

Yeah, that's a really good point.

More clubs, how can we spread this across the state?

How can other high schools, elementary schools, middle schools start Girls Who Code?

- Well, this is a great start.

First of all, being here, getting the word out is I had not heard of Girls Who Code until I went to a meeting but that meeting was for computer science teachers.

So perhaps we need to reach out to other, the Department of Education and just get it out there and let them see what's being done, let's see what's going on in the industry, how we need more representation.

The data's out there.

Last year in 2022, the average for computer science major graduates in college only it was about 21%.

So of all these computer science degrees it was so underrepresented.

So that has to change.

So we need to grab them younger.

I know our district is starting everybody coding from elementary school.

So we're trying to catch up with this and understand our district leaders know that we need to code and they've implemented a plan for that.

So we have to keep that going.

So if every school should really jump on board and get these kids going.

'Cause sometimes at home maybe they don't have not the opportunity but the the support or the parents don't know about coding and that's a little difficult.

- And so how can a teacher or a parent or someone who's just interested in the program, how can they stay in touch with you or learn more?

- Well, they can stay in touch with...

They can get me through our Tiverton High School website or my personal email, JMoore@tivertonchools.org.

But as far as parent resources go there, if they just Google coding, there are so, so many free resources available online for their child to go through and start.

There's so much rate at our fingertips.

They're so good at technology that it would be surprised what they can pull up.

You'd be surprised what they can pull up, 'cause there's so much out there.

- I'm actually gonna go on there and Google now 'cause I really wanna get into coding especially because I was doing it when I was younger and I wanna see what I remember and if I can create something else.

Well, I wanna thank you all so much for joining us.

We have run out of time.

And so again thank you to Judy Moore, Gabriela Croft and Lauren Lewis.

You can watch past episodes anytime on watch.ripbs.org and be sure to follow us on Facebook and X formerly known as Twitter for the latest updates.

And then y'all, we have started a tradition where you can leave your mark on our board over here.

So I'm gonna have you all grab some chalk make sure you take your mic set with you and head on over.

(lighthearted music)