This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made in the early 1990s on the set of a spike Lee movie, where the legendary director was thinking about the music in his films.

Whether we realize it or not, the score of a film has a profound impact on our emotions, on how much we remember of the film and what we might be humming when we go home from the theater.

Spike Lee knew the importance, and he was watching a trumpeter named Terence Blanchard who had played on the score for school days, and he had played the trumpet for the scenes in which actor Denzel Washington is playing trumpet in Mo Better Blues.

During a break in the studio, spike Lee noticed that Blanchard was playing around, noodling on a new theme that was unfinished, and Lee wanted to know what was he playing when he found out it was an unpublished piece of music, the director wanted to use it, and he knew he wanted Terence Blanchard to score his films in the future.

They've been working together ever since, with Blanchard doing more than a dozen of Spike Lee's films Jungle Fever, Malcolm X, Inside Man, Black Klansman and more.

Blanchard is one Academy Awards for his work, and now Terence Blanchard is coming to Rochester to perform as part of the only film music festival in North America.

It's called the Soundtrax Film Music Festival, set for October 16th through the 18th at the Eastman School of Music.

That's next week, as well as other venues, by the way, in the city of Rochester.

And in addition to the highly anticipated performance by Terence Blanchard, attendees can hear performances of the music from the film interstellar, the music of John Williams reimagined the RPO performing Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part two, among a long list of other concerts.

There are also speaker sessions on the music for video games, The Craft of Music for animation, composer conversations, and more.

We have a lot to talk about this hour.

Let me welcome our guests in studio Kate Schimmer is with us, associate Dean for Artistic Planning at the Eastman School of Music.

Thank you for making time for us.

>> Very pleased to be here.

>> Welcome to Alexander Laing.

Alex is president and artistic director of the Gateways Music Festival.

We're going to be talking about some overlap and partnership here.

Great to have you back here.

>> Hey, happy to be here.

>> With us on the line.

I'm honored to welcome Terence Blanchard, a Grammy winning and Oscar nominated composer and trumpeter, a musical polymath and someone who's probably overqualified for my interview skills.

Terence, welcome.

Thank you for making time for.

>> Us.

>> Thank you for having me.

>> And Mark Watters is with us, co-director of Soundtrax, an Emmy winning composer and conductor and associate professor of contemporary media and film composition, director of the Beale Institute for film, Music and Contemporary Media at the Eastman School of Music.

Hi, Mark, thanks for being with us.

>> So glad to be here.

Thank you.

>> So we're going to talk a lot about Soundtrax, although gateways is also coming up.

And there's some really interesting overlap happening.

So I'm going to ask Kate and Alex to kind of set the stage first here.

And gateways is up first.

That's coming.

What's coming up.

>> So gateways opens on Monday.

This coming Monday the 13th we open up with our Rochester Day for strings.

So that's an outgrowth of our Young Musicians Institute, which is the umbrella term we use for all of our youth programing.

So that's an all day event for string players here in Rochester.

We're going to do some technique work.

We're going to learn some do some work on improv.

We're going to learn and work on a piece by the Chevalier de Saint-Georges.

Joseph Bologne.

And then we're going to share that out with community and family and friends at the end of the day.

So we start off with a free all day event for young people on Tuesday.

David Barry will be in recital, a pianist.

We always have a piano recital as part of gateways.

That's a tribute to our founder, our mentor, Doyne Dumisani, a visionary artist who started gateways in 1993, in Winston-Salem and then moved it to Rochester when she was hired in a joint position by the Eastman School of Music and the Eastman Community School.

So David Barry is going to give an incredible piano recital that's really bridging the tradition of black classical artistry, particularly spirituals.

And the virtuosic piano tradition.

So Chopin, Liszt.

So that tradition, both of those traditions live inside him.

So he's going to demonstrate both talk about the similarities and Connections that he finds between those.

Wednesday is an exciting concert.

We're going to have the second iteration of our gateways chamber players.

That's our variable ensemble.

It's sort of like a mini gateway.

So we bring together four seven.

In this case nine, outstanding players from great institutions the Juilliard School, Metropolitan Orchestra, Cleveland Orchestra, et cetera.

get to come together.

And that sort of typical gateways way get to play with players they would not otherwise get to play with, have that homecoming feel, which is really our signature.

So that's great that that program is going to end with the realization of Samuel Coleridge-taylor's, non, his nonet.

So coleridge-taylor's, a black British composer writing in kind of the early and middle part of the 20th century and late, well, late 19th to the 20th.

And then on Friday, on Thursday we have our crossover event in many ways and particularly it's a joint offering.

So our finale also marks the opening of the Soundtrax festival.

And we're so excited to be collaborating with a living legend that I'm thrilled to be on the phone with right now.

Terence Blanchard to have him with us and his collective and the Gateways Festival Orchestra bringing to life in real time for an audience here in Rochester.

This incredible this incredible art that has grown out of his collaboration with filmmakers, of course, specifically spike Lee.

So it's a really wonderful week of collaborations and crossovers and celebrating this traditional, this tradition of black artistry and classical music that gateways is home to.

And we're thrilled to have this true collaboration with the inaugural Soundtrax festival.

to both end our event and kick off their event.

>> So big stuff coming up in the next week.

So the end of gateways marks the start of Soundtrax.

And in a moment we're going to talk to Terence about the work in his career and what he's going to be bringing to Rochester.

before I do that, Kate Schimmer I was a, I think 14 years old in the early 1990s.

And back then, kids don't realize now you couldn't just get any piece of music you wanted with a snap of a finger and the touch of a button, and I had watched a movie.

I don't know why.

As a 14-year-old, I watched this movie that the critics didn't even like, and it was about this heavy subject in which a couple finally conceives they're having a child, and then the husband finds out he's dying of cancer.

And Michael Keaton played the husband, Nicole Kidman played his wife.

the movie was called My Life and the the score of that movie, for some reason, as a 14-year-old, I found it so touching and I recorded it with a cassette tape up against a television because I wanted to learn how to play it on a piano.

Now I don't play piano, I don't play hardly anything, and I can still play the my life theme with my fingers on the piano, because I don't know why it hit me that way.

it wasn't even that great of a movie, but the theme hit me and for some reason, the power of music and film.

I think you can't pick what's going to hit you, but it matters.

It really does matter, and it makes an impact on the audience on the film.

So tell me why Soundtrax exists here.

How did this come together?

>> This is such an important moment, and I'm so glad that you had that moment in your life.

This is wonderful.

I Mark Watters would would also have an absolutely fabulous take on this.

Music is how people connect.

It's how people connect with each other.

It's a universal language.

And when we're talking about film, it's it's yet another vehicle for people to share some part of themselves.

So this is this is more and more how people are becoming exposed to music as well.

When you see a commercial, when you see a cartoon, when you see a full length feature film as you did, you're hearing music that may be original, maybe something that a classical composer wrote years ago, maybe something new that was influenced by that.

and this, this is, this is taking shape more and more in the classical music landscape.

More and more orchestras, professional orchestras are performing films, film scores.

They're performing it with films.

They're performing the music of John Williams, the music of and this is this is an important thing that we need to grab on to.

This is the way the world is going.

Digital media, especially during COVID, the COVID 19 pandemic became ubiquitous.

It was how we were, how we were engaging with art.

And Eastman has done something really extraordinary with the Beal Institute.

Jeff Beal, who'll be here conducting the red violin, and his wife, his incredible wife, Joan.

have have with Marc created the Beal Institute, which is where we teach kids about how to engage with film, music, where we teach kids about how to engage with technology and music.

Mark Backo, who's one of the other directors of Soundtrax, is a distinguished professor at the School of Engineering, is also involved with this.

And Eastman is is really on the cutting edge of bringing movie music, bringing music and technology to the fore in the classical music industry.

So having Soundtrax at Eastman, having the first film music festival in North America, here was a completely natural fit.

We have we have lots of students who can benefit from this experience, and it also gives us a chance to start exploring a field that classical music has perhaps not embraced as fully as it should have.

>> So later this hour, I'll ask Kate to kind of walk us through as fast as we can all of the events.

There are a lot of events.

It's not just the Terence Blanchard show, although that's a big one, but there's a lot happening and we'll have a link on our website in the show notes.

If you want to jump on the on the website to find out what's coming up with Soundtrax starting next Thursday the 16th.

Mark Watters.

do you want to just elaborate a little bit on the power of of music in, in, I would say in film, but also in streaming shows.

I mean, I was such a nerd about House of cards, I couldn't believe I had a chance to talk to Jeff Beal years ago.

And when when I found out that Jeff was the guy and he's right here in Rochester doing that great track there why do you think it matters so much?

And tell me a little bit about the art of it?

>> Well, I think you kind of proved it when you were talking about the My Life movie that here was a an element of the, the movie that stayed with you.

I mean, music connects with us in a way that's different from hearing spoken words.

from how we see visuals.

we are receptive to the sounds of of music.

And you don't have to be a musician to to do this.

In fact you better not be.

Or we're in trouble.

you know, music can communicate with us in ways that are so unique.

And from the dawning days of.

I mean, before there was sound and picture in the days of so-called silent movies, it really wasn't silent because there was music playing, because filmmakers knew that music could complete the storytelling in a way that is unique.

So it became an art form.

and definitely perpetuated by, you know, our esteemed artists that's going to be with us on on next Thursday.

Terence you know whom I am a huge fan of?

I'm so honored to have you.

Terence.

next week.

And just delighted that our partnership with the gateways, Foundation is it's just fantastic.

It's so I love it when things happen organically, you know, just by accident, so to speak.

You know we put in the dates that we wanted to have it at Eastman.

Oh, well, it turns out gateways is finishing their festival, and.

And we got the great idea.

Well, let's combine let's make their last day, our first day, and, you know, then the magic happens.

>> Well, Terence Blanchard, you know, your musical repertoire goes well beyond just, you know, the spike Lee movies, of course.

And my understanding is that your movie music that's going to be performed next Thursday has only been performed twice before.

So why did you agree to come here?

How did how did they convince you to come be part of this event?

>> Terence.

>> Well, you know, for me, whenever I get a chance to do something that's interesting or do something a little different, I'm always excited about it.

Also, I mean, you you listen to everybody talk about this festival.

Just you can feel the passion that everybody has for the art form itself.

So why wouldn't I want to be a part of something like that?

You know, especially in the city of Rochester.

You know, I have a lot of fond memories of playing that festival earlier in my career.

and then playing with the youth orchestra, you know, hopefully to inspire some young musicians to, to want to enter into this realm, whether as a performer or as a composer or as a producer, you know is an exciting thing for me.

>> I want to come back in a moment to your film work, but there's a couple of things that I think will help the audience understand a little bit more, because in the music world, Terence Blanchard is a legendary name for our listeners who are not in that world.

This may be their first introduction to Terence Blanchard.

And I want to ask you a little bit about a story that I heard you tell that might describe a little bit more about who you are and the regard you are held in the music world.

So there's the story that you tell about being in a in a rehearsal at the house of a of a pianist named Bruce.

Bruce Barth in Brooklyn.

>> And you.

>> You got to call that day from someone claiming to be the great Sonny Rollins, you know, maybe the greatest jazz saxophonist of all time.

And at first, you thought it was a prank.

Can you can you tell the story of what happened?

>> Yeah, yeah.

I'm at Bruce Barth's home in in Brooklyn, and we were having this rehearsal, and all of a sudden his wife comes in and she goes, Terence, Sonny's on the phone for you.

And I'm like, Sonny, you know who?

Sonny who?

And then I get on the phone and, you know, he has that very distinctive voice.

Terence Sonny here, Sonny Rollins.

And I'm like, come on, man, who?

You know who's playing the prank on me at Bruce?

How does Sonny Rollins know that?

I'm at Bruce Barth's home?

First of all, and then.

And then he goes and he says, well, you know, Paul told me a lot about you and Paul was one of my teachers at Rutgers, Paul Jeffries, who was the last saxophonist that played with Thelonious Monk's band.

And he was good friends with Sonny Rollins.

So when he said, Paul told me a lot about you, I knew it was Sonny Rollins at that point.

But the funny part about it, he's, you know, he wanted me to play a show with him at Carnegie Hall and which I was very honored, excited to do.

And at the end of the call, he says, we're going to make history.

Now, whoever says that when they're asking you to do a show with a man, you know.

>> Amazing.

But you claim that when you finally got on stage with him, you know, that that his talent was so big that you you almost felt pushed to your limit to be with him.

>> not pushed past my limit.

I mean, you know, because, you know, it was in rehearsal, man.

He was really nice and jovial, but come, come the the day of the show, it was like game day at the Super Bowl.

Man.

He had on a game face that was just very different.

And we it was pretty nice.

You know, we played a couple of tunes and he was okay, man.

We played that third tune and he wanted us to trade, go back and forth, and he played so many musical ideas.

I went through everything.

I knew three times, you know, and I was literally going, please stop, stop, you know?

And it was funny because when I, when he called me for the gig, I talked to a good friend of mine, Branford Marsalis.

I said, Branford, I said, man, Sonny Rollins, call me do this gig.

And he said, well, just go get your butt kicked like everybody else.

Yeah.

>> That's what an amazing story.

We're talking to Terence Blanchard in the fall of 2021, Terence Blanchard became the first black composer to have an opera presented at the met.

and I know, Terence, you told NPR that you've spent a lot of time thinking about lineage, about black composers who maybe never had to work presented at the met, but certainly were qualified to.

And so one of the things that stood out to me from that interview, there are some themes that Alex and I have talked about with gateways, which is that, you know, there are times where, because of the way our society has been structured, a person might be, well, the first woman to do something, the first black composer.

And you get a lot of attention for being the first, but maybe not as much emphasis on the lineage that was just as deserving, whose names didn't get on that stage.

Can you talk about the risk of putting too much emphasis on the first when there have been so many qualified individuals before you?

>> Well, I that's a perfect point.

That's a perfect way of putting it because, you know, people have been asking me, what does it feel like to be the first African American composer to be at the met?

And I said, listen, man, it comes with a bag of mixed emotions.

I mean, it's exciting for anybody to go to the met.

I don't care who you are, but I know that I wasn't the first qualified, and I remember I was on a national syndicated television broadcast and they brought out this ledger that had these names of these composers who will reject it.

Now, here's the interesting thing about this.

I was just in Saint Louis a few months before then, and I heard this opera.

And I thought that they.

Because they were the ones who commissioned me to do my first opera.

So when I heard this opera, I thought they found another jazz musician who was really hip and young because this thing sounded so amazing.

And then I come to find out that opera was written in 1939, you know, by William, by William Grant.

Still.

And when I looked in this book, this book had his name next to that same opera that was rejected by the met.

And the comment at the time said, doesn't know what it takes to write real opera.

Which really blew my mind.

But, but but to go back to the other point, you know, I was talking, I was speaking at a gala the other night about this.

The whole notion of the term black composer means that there's an equity in the in the system.

You know what I mean?

Because I don't view myself as a black composer.

It's like black jobs, you know, I, I view myself as a composer, you know, period.

And just for there to be the term should let you know that there's a lot of work to be done in this field for everybody to have a voice and let their voices be heard, because it's not just me.

Because, you know, when I talk to Peter Gelb, I said, Peter, man, you know, I can't.

I can't be, you know a one time thing, man.

I have to be a turnkey, you know, for a lot of other people to have their voices being heard here at the met.

And to his credit, Peter, you know, commissioned a bunch of people and brought a lot of different people in to have productions at the met.

>> mm-hmm.

>> Now, it's such an interesting point about the way we describe performers, people in society of all things to think, to pop into my mind when the pandemic hit, everyone was sort of, well, not probably.

Most of us were passing time in ways that we didn't think we would, and looking for comfort food came across, came across a channel on a streaming service that was all 1970s and 80s.

Bob Barker The Price Is Right.

And I thought, oh, this is interesting.

Wow.

A woman gets called down from the studio audience and she's dressed a lot, frankly, like the way Kate Schimmer is dressed right now.

You know very professionally.

And Bob Barker says you're dressed up professionally.

Are you a lady attorney?

A lady attorney?

A and then he said, A lady doctor, perhaps, you know, like like, oh, how interesting that a woman might actually, you know, but it didn't say, are you an attorney?

Are you a doctor?

It was so it was that qualifier that indicated that it wasn't really either accepted or common, et cetera.

And I take the point about the term black composer.

I mean, it's such a powerful point.

and I just want to kick it over to Alex and just say, you know, someone we've talked about the power of gateways.

There's so many themes that overlap, I think, and what Terence is talking about is understanding the history that came before you and asking, why did this person never get on this stage?

How come I never heard this piece of music?

How often does that happen even in your own work?

>> Well, I mean, the thought that comes to mind.

Well, first off, I think there's this question of agency and choice.

Right?

So there are composers that may want to be known as a black composer, and that's their choice, right?

I think the question is, is should society make that choice for them?

And the answer is no.

And then in terms of these stories, I mean last spring, the Gateways Festival was here in Rochester for the first half of the week.

And then we went down to New York City, one of the main, and ended the week with our return performance at Carnegie Hall.

that performance is still available for streaming on WQXR.

For those folks who are interested.

But the point I want to make is that you know, the feature piece that we were performing last year in the spring was William Levi Dawson's Folk Symphony.

This is an incredible work.

It's, I think, one of the great American symphonies, period.

Full stop.

Right.

Not black, just great American symphony.

That piece was had its premiere week in 1930.

For the first three performances were given in Philadelphia.

The piece was actually commissioned by the Philadelphia Orchestra.

I'm gesturing to Kate because Kate used to work for the Philadelphia Orchestra, so she knows this story well.

So the first performance is like November 13th, 15th and 17th.

Were in Philadelphia, and then the fourth performance was at Carnegie Hall on November 20th, 1934, when we performed that piece.

April 27th, 2025.

That was the first time since that performance in 1934 that this work was performed in Carnegie Hall.

Now, if you think about in the intervening almost 100 years, 90 years, right, the number of American orchestras that have cycled through Carnegie Hall, particularly if you bring into view youth orchestras.

Right.

It's thousands, actually, of or it's at least a thousand and maybe more of performances and visits by American orchestras.

And no one had brought this piece with them.

And so, you know, there is still a lot of work to do.

And then as it relates to just to uncover and uplift this piece part of also, I think what makes this tradition right, it's the repeated realizations of the works that is actually what elevates them to this sort of masterwork level as much as any sort of objective measure of the work itself.

Right.

And certainly the way it's received by the audience may or may not have anything to do with how it ends up sort of locating itself inside of the work.

Case in point, Rite of Spring Rite was roundly rejected.

Or Bartok's Miraculous Mandarin roundly rejected.

Now, really, core parts of what we do so.

And why?

Because we keep realizing them, right?

I was told that I had to figure out my freshman year in music school.

I was told that I had to, like, figure out Rite of Spring, right?

That that was my work, that I had to come to the work.

Not that the work had to come to me.

And so you know, the, the, the lack of repeat performances of these works is much a problem as anything.

And to Terence's point about being a turnkey.

Absolutely.

And also, I, I don't know if Terence is interested, but, you know, I want ten operas from Terence, right?

I mean, not just one, not two.

Right?

You know, it is a difficult medium to figure out.

and when someone obviously has their arms around it the way he does, like, let's keep going.

Like, what else is there?

Let's commission more from these artists.

I mean, how many Verdi operas, right?

How many?

And they're not all great, right?

They're not they're not all great.

But that's how you get the great ones is by, you know, the repeated realizations of the stuff you have and the repeated commissions from composers like Terence.

So again, I can't speak for Terence and what's on his plate, but I hope that there are more operas coming, because where he started is off the charts, right where he started is off the charts.

Where will he be if if we continue to invest in, you know, developing opera through Terence's voice?

>> Terrence, can you can you add anything to that?

>> Well, given that it took me two years to write it, Alex, you know.

>> Fair, fair.

>> Ten operas.

Man.

>> I know, I understand, I understand you have.

You have other stuff to do besides opera.

I don't want to.

>> Be selfish, but the.

>> No, no no no no, but no, but no, but I really I really take his point, you know, because it's like anything else, man.

You know, it took me a while to get better at doing film music.

And the only way you get better at it is by doing it.

Having mistakes, understanding that you may have an idea, but that idea may not really.

You know, manifest itself the way that you really would thinking about it in your mind because of other extenuating circumstances.

And that's just called experience, right?

So I would, you know, I'm starting to work on my third opera now.

We have a topic and you know, we're we're in the beginning stages of it and and listen, it's it's it's to his point, you know, it's it's the thing about being a jazz musician is that, you know, the guys will tell you in order to really become a jazz musician, you need to put in flight hours like a, like a pilot.

So you need to go out and play and play and play as much as you can.

Composers don't really get that opportunity the same way, you know?

So we have to try to embrace them and give them workshops, give them moments where they can try things and see how things work.

Because at this gala that I was just at, Andre, Andre Bocelli was there and he sang for a second, and as soon as he started to sing, man, I started to realize things that I've learned about writing opera in terms of how to set melodies for certain types of voices and where to put them in the range of the voice to get the maximum effect of storytelling that only comes from doing it.

You know what I mean?

So to his point, I understand what he's saying about trying to do more operas.

You know, because it the experience is the thing that helps you to grow and become better at the craft.

>> Well, we're talking to an unbelievable panel this hour.

Terence Blanchard, a Grammy winning and Oscar nominated composer and trumpeter that just scratches the surface of what Terence Blanchard does.

And you're hearing that this hour?

and Mark Watters with us, co-director of Soundtrax.

And we're talking about this festival.

We're talking about gateways a lot coming up in the coming days here, right here in Rochester.

So Marc is with us.

Kate Schimmer, who is the associate dean for artistic planning at the Eastman School of Music and Alexander Lang, Alex's president and artistic director of the Gateways Music Festival.

By the way, before we take our break, Alex where can people learn about the full schedule?

We mentioned the Soundtrax website, online gateways, where.

>> Gateways Music Festival Gateways Music Festival.

and also, let me just say share on the air that we have a discount.

So gateways 15.

G e w a y s the number one, the number five.

That'll give 15% off for any ticket for the festival, including the finale.

With Maestro Blanchard and his E collective and the Gateways Festival Orchestra.

>> All right, so in our show notes, we'll link you to what gateways is doing, what Soundtrax is doing.

We're going to come back from our break, and we're going to kind of dig in a little bit more with Marc, with Terence, with the whole panel about some of this work that you know, if I, if I think about what Soundtrax I love what what film scores I love, there's a lot that come to mind, but I'm always wondering, how much do you know about this thing before you got to write this?

Do you get to see everything first?

Hear.

How close are you?

How closely is Terence working with spike Lee?

Is it a conversation about concepts, or is he actually seeing a script and a scene?

So there's a lot there we'll talk about on the other side of this only break.

I'm Evan Dawson Friday on the next Connections, the great doctor Bill Valenti, is retiring and we sit down with Dr.

Valenti to not only talk about his career, but to talk about what changed in society over the course of the decades that he has worked on Aids research and more.

And what still has to happen next.

In our second hour, the team from city joins us talking about what it means to be home, talk with you Friday.

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>> This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson you heard Alex mention the menu of what's coming up for gateways.

I'm going to ask Kate just if there's a few that you want to mention, I don't we can't go in depth on everything that's happening next Thursday through Saturday as part of Soundtrax, which is you guys claim it's the only film music festival in North America, and it probably is if you're saying so.

I want to trust that you're.

That's correct.

I didn't fact.

>> Check.

And the first heaven.

>> The first and the only.

There you go.

so what are some we've been talking to Terence Blanchard that's happening as as gateways wraps up and Soundtrax kicks off with this joint event next Thursday evening.

What else is on the menu you want people to know about?

>> Sure.

So as you say, it is an extraordinary set of offerings that we have coming up October 16th through 18th.

during the day, what I'd really love to highlight, because these are free, we have panel speaker sessions these cover topics like music for video games, the art and craft of music for animation, the mystique of of Stradivarius.

The full listing can be found on Soundtrax with an Wxxi.org.

and we've brought in Mark has brought in a lot of his industry contacts to talk about what they know.

So we have video game composers, for instance, Guy Whitmore and Seth Wright coming in to talk about how you score for video games and what that experience is like working with music for video games.

we have John Corigliano and Jeff Beal here for the red violin, which is our concert on Friday evening.

John, who of course wrote the score Jeff, the the the Eastman alum, remarkable composer of House of cards and many other things will be conducting that.

and as I said during the day, they're they're just an absolute litany of sessions that cover topics related to writing for music, A.I.

and technology and music.

and then of course relate to the concert.

So the Stradivarius session that I mentioned will be really fantastic.

I do want to highlight that Friday morning at 9:00. that's going to feature some of our wonderful faculty, including Eugene Jang, who's going to be our soloist on on the Red Violin concert.

So the full lineup is, again, at Soundtrax.

Org but there is an absolute litany of free programing with industry professionals who have made marks.

Oscar winners, Emmy winners talking about their craft, talking about how it applies today.

So it's all free in the morning.

And we're really excited.

We really want to share this with the community.

It's been a great collaborative effort between the Hajim School of Music and the Eastman School.

and our hope.

Our hope is that this is going to be an incredibly rich experience, not only for our students, but for the community.

We are inviting the community in to experience and learn about about this type of work with us.

>> Now, I tried to avoid this Mark Watters, but I heard A.I.

get brought up and you know, as a as a professor of contemporary media and film composition are you going to come up with a policy on talking to students about how, hey, I've got, you know, I've got this hook, I've got I've got this a couple of bars, you can tell I'm a real musician.

of music here, but I don't have a finished product.

But if I put it in Suno, if I put it in other programs, it will complete it for me.

And A.I.

is going to help us complete a lot of half finished compositions.

And isn't that great?

What's that conversation with your students like Mark?

>> Well, I think if you if you don't embrace new technology, you're going to get left behind.

There's just, you know, we're not going to put that that genie back in the bottle.

So there are right ways to use technology and there's wrong ways to use it.

And I think the right way to use it is to enhance your all, you know, already existing, you know, artistic and craft abilities.

there's many ways I can see A.I.

being used in a legitimate, helpful way to I mean, I mean, Terence will certainly agree.

Deadlines are a big part of being a film and television composer.

They can they can either be your friend, or they can.

They can be your, your worst enemy.

And and and you you and if, if here's a tool that will help you, you know, meet those ridiculous deadlines.

great.

Embrace it.

And and, you know, use it to enhance and make you be a better composer and a more profitable composer.

>> Okay, well, and, you know, I take the point that that genie's not going back in the bottle.

I will say I'm curious to know.

Mark, you know, is the director of the Beal Institute.

You know, Jeff Beal is obviously a big name.

There's it's really cool for, I think, for the lay public that's not in this world to understand how this stuff comes together.

can you just talk a little bit about before I ask Terence kind of the same question about what this process is like, about how closely composers are working with, you know, whoever their clients are to, to create for a soundtrack, for a film, for a streaming series, how much information you have and how you go about that creative process?

>> Well, a an important skill set as a commercial composer is to get all the information you can from the people that have hired you.

You know, what do you want?

How big do you want it?

How fast you know, what are you trying to say?

Who do we communicate?

And I think it also behooves a filmmaker, to know how music works to to, you know, they're not certainly, you know, God forbid they're going to tell you what notes to choose, but they it is important for a filmmaker to understand how film music works so that they can give you, you know, the pathway.

I mean I it amazes me.

I've worked with, with, you know, producers who they'll sit across the table and say, look, I don't know anything about music.

I don't know what to tell you.

And I'm thinking, how did you get this job?

How did you get this job as a producer at Disney or Warner Brothers?

And you don't know anything about music?

I mean, I'm not saying you have to be a brilliant pianist, but you have to know, you know, when music works and when it doesn't.

And and a lot of times, for a filmmaker to be able to say, this is what I don't want.

I don't want this, this, this and this, that can help you a lot that that can really keep you from going off in 900 different directions and waiting for them to pick one.

so I just think that, that, that collaboration, I mean, it is a collaborative art.

You have to enjoy the art of collaborating.

If you don't want to collaborate, then go off and write music just on your own.

And maybe people will gravitate to it.

Maybe they won't, but it's all yours.

And and it was unfiltered and and unchanged.

You're working in TV and film or any commercial idiom.

There are other people in the room that are, you know, directing you on it, and you have to like that.

You don't have to.

It's not enough just to say, oh, I'll put up with that.

No, you have to enjoy that.

You have to, you know, I mean, some of my best music has come from a direction that came from a filmmaker that was not a, you know, I want you to think about it this way.

I want you to present this person's perspective.

Wow.

I didn't even think of that.

Well, boom, there came, you know, the score.

>> It.

Let's listen to one if we could.

I think we've got Oswald the rabbit's poor Papa, which is a composition by Mark Watters for Disney.

Let's listen to a little bit of that.

>> Now I'm going to gather here, having not seen this Mark Watters that this is not a film about a man dying of cancer, wondering if he will see the birth of his first child.

I think that's a very different theme from what I'm hearing there.

Tell me about that one, Marc.

>> Yes.

Well Oswald the Rabbit was a character that Disney created.

Walt created in the late 20s.

and did, I think, 40 some odd shorts featuring this character.

And then he lost control of them.

And the shorts disappeared, and he went on to become Walt Disney.

And the shorts, you know, kind of went off into oblivion.

they they found a few of the lost ones.

a few years ago.

And Disney approached me about scoring.

we've done three of them, and we're possibly going to do more, but it was a wonderful experience trying to imagine what Walt would have asked, because I knew enough about the music that Walt, you know, how he directed his composers and what he told them to do.

And and so it was fun to imagine what he would have told me to do.

So I'm assuming that he would have been happy with it.

>> That's that is a instantly powerful piece of music in all in all the sort of whimsical, fun ways there.

And I when I looked up Oswald the Rabbit, I'm going, I don't think I know this character, but it was instantly recognizable on a piece of paper.

So, I mean, it was just it's interesting to see Mark's work for it.

I'm looking at availability here.

Mark, is this out yet?

Is I think it's was out.

Is that earlier this year or is it still coming?

>> What?

Oh, the poor papa.

It.

No, we did it several years ago.

I think you can find it on the Snow White and 75th anniversary DVD.

It's a DVD extra.

it's either on that one or it's on the Bambi one, or it's on the Pinocchio one.

They took the three that I did and put them on those three DVDs.

>> Awesome.

thanks for letting us share that, by the way, that we needed to lighten the mood, too.

And I love that.

So let me let me ask Terence Blanchard.

You know, a similar question.

I've been talking to Mark about.

So, you know, you started working with spike Lee before you were fully scoring the films.

You were a trumpeter working on the score.

You know, you did the trumpet, I think, for Denzel Washington's character in Mo Better Blues.

but then spike Lee wants you to score films.

So are you seeing a script?

Are you having conversations with spike Lee?

Are you seeing any scenes?

I mean, what is it?

What is that process like for you?

>> Oh, yeah, you definitely have to see the film.

I remember when I first started, I think Raqqa probably relate to this.

I remember when I first started, you know, I thought I'd get a jump on everybody by just writing music based on the script that I read.

And I had to realize the script that I read and the images that were in my mind were my movie.

They weren't the same thing that the director had put together.

As a matter of fact, the story that I tell all the time, there was one scene for this movie, Summer of Sam, that spike did, and I, I loved the scene.

There was an argument between Mira Sorvino and John Leguizamo, and I'm like, okay, so I started writing this music, and when spike shot the scene, he shot the scene with Salvina getting out the car and just an empty seat.

You know?

And there's just there's just an empty seat there.

Now, I could have never imagined that.

So trying to write music prior to seeing things, you know, sometimes it works.

But for the most part, for me, it's I'm creating stuff based on my own imagery in my head.

So I try to I try to not only see the entire film, but I try to get as much information about the characters as I can from the directors, because sometimes, you know, directors are so involved in the process that some details may slip their minds when talking to composers, because you got to remember, man, they they're dealing with editors.

They're dealing with actors, they're dealing with cameras.

They're dealing with so much other stuff.

Music is one of the last things that comes along.

And when we do come along, there's probably still editing the film.

So I try to get as much information as, as, as as possible.

I do want to speak on the A.I.

thing, though.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, you know, the thing that's interesting to me about about A.I.

and I, you know, and I think Mark is really right about, you know, you have to deal with technology or else you're going to be left behind.

The other part of it, though, that I think that we're tending to forget.

And I could be wrong about this, but from what I understand, in talking to the people that I've talked to about it, you know, A.I.

only goes as far as what it's learned.

You know and it's I don't know how how creative it truly is.

It's creative in a sense of assimilating ideas that are already inside the system.

so for me, the thing that I've come to is to try to creatively stay a step ahead of A.I.

in terms of not trying to repeat myself creatively when I'm creating new works.

And then there are other things, too.

There was a woman who was a choreographer, and she told me she used A.I.

in a way where she took all of these still photos of these ballerinas and put it in a system, and then let the A.I.

create a video of moving from one piece to the next, which I thought was really interesting, you know?

So I think there's interesting applications for it, you know, but we have to get past it's a similar thing that happened when I first started using computers, man.

When hanging around jazz musicians who weren't into electronic music, they kept asking me, so the computer writing the music for you, I'm like, no, no, it's just assisting me in terms of like being able to produce printed music and actually being able to hear my orchestrations, you know?

So I think the future is, is bright, but like anything else, it'll all come out in the wash.

We will be able to tell those who use A.I.

versus those who are creative.

>> I want to think that's correct.

I will say I, as a consumer who is not in your world, I'm not in Mark or Alex or Terence or Kate's world.

I'm.

I'm the lay public.

I, I remind myself that it's only getting better.

And it is certainly true that ai, whatever you're asking it to produce, is only really as good as the prompt.

So the detailed prompt, but also the detailed information, which could be bodies of work, it could be 30 years of work of one musician or artist.

It could be film scores.

I want to recognize that it's better than I thought it was going to be already three years ago, and I also want to say that I kind of don't care if it gets better.

I want I don't want it to.

Number one, take anybody's job, and I want humans creating the work.

I want to consume work created by humans.

So I don't want to be naive.

I know it's getting better than I ever thought it could be, and it's only going to get better from here.

But I still would rather say, hey, this is this is Mark's work versus Mark put a 12 word prompt in and here's what got spat out.

isn't it cool?

I'm not trying to be glib, but I, you know, Mark Watters, I don't want your students losing jobs, I guess is what a part of what I'm saying here.

I don't I don't know how you feel about that.

>> Well, I, I think the biggest effect that A.I.

will have is on lower budget projects, which my students are the ones who go into those projects.

I mean, that's usually the first projects you get are low budget because they can't afford a Terence Blanchard so they can hire.

And you know, we all got started that way.

You know, thank God that there are projects like that.

So I do worry about, A.I.

replacing individual custom made scores and that I'm hoping that it'll be a flash in the pan.

Okay, well, that was neat.

So now we did that, and now let's move on.

You know to to something, you know, else because the, the, the public is always wanting new and different things.

I mean, that's never going to stop.

But you're right to bring up that, you know, there is going to be, you know, some bad and negative things on it.

I think the, the thing we have to keep focusing on is, you know, okay, that's neat.

That's one thing.

But have you heard Terence Blanchard most recent score?

I mean, it's, you know, that that ain't A.I., my friend.

that came out of a man's brain.

And that's different.

So.

>> Well, you know the other thing, too.

The other thing too, about that, that I think is important to talk about when I was listening to Andre Bocelli the other night, one of the things that I kept saying to myself was, you can't teach that the way that that man would sing, you can't, you can't, that that's something that comes from his background, that comes comes from his childhood, his life experiences, all of those things combined, you know, and I think that's where we as human beings will always have a step ahead.

I understand the fear of of A.I.

because you're right for low budget projects, it probably can, because we we saw what happened with the writer's strike, you know, in L.A., you know, with with people trying to use ChatGPT and all these other systems, you know, to create scripts.

so there's a valid point there, you know, but it's one of the things where I always try to encourage my students to dig deep in their own souls, to try to come up with their own sounds, their own personality, and give them the tools to develop that as opposed to just.

While it's important to study our history and know how this music evolved and understand the the technical side of it, there's also a need for us as educators to to recognize certain unique talents and students and give them the tools to develop those things, because that's the thing that's going to keep them ahead of all ahead of the curve.

>> Kate and Alex, you want to jump in here.

Go ahead.

>> I do.

I'm Terence I'm so glad you brought up education.

This is critical to me.

it's it's making sure that what we're doing at Eastman, which is nurturing, nurturing the individual creative talents and giving kids time and the tools to figure out their own individual voices, their own individual talents.

But it's also the work that we're doing with the School of Engineering to make sure that they're educated about the technology that is out there.

They know how to use it, they know how to use it to help them as they find themselves as artists.

And to Mark's point that we're teaching them, you know, when you use it and when you don't.

but but understanding it, understanding what it's capable of, I think is critical.

If you are entering a field where it's becoming more and more prevalent.

>> And you want to add.

>> Alex, know a couple of things.

One thing that comes to mind is the people that A.I.

will create a pathway into the business, right?

So, you know, particularly if you think about like, composition.

so, you know, I think the hip hop producer J Dilla is a composer, right?

He organized sound in a very intentional way.

You know, when you're listening to his stuff in the same way, you know, it's Carter Burwell or Terence Blanchard.

I don't know that J Dilla necessarily had the training and skills to, like, notate his work such that it could be realized by an orchestra.

But that and that is typically been sort of the barrier about who gets to call themselves a composer or not.

I think that we're about to leave that behind us.

Right.

Because any many anyone will be able to produce a score of sound that they've organized.

So I think that's going to lower some barriers, actually, and bring some new voices into the space that aren't here right now, because they can't get over this technical barrier, which is really irrelevant to the whether or not you have organized the sound.

Right.

I mean, so you can organize it.

So I think there's that, that I think offers some possibilities.

I also think from a music learning perspective, you know, lost often in the telling of the story of Mozart and his sister is the fact that their father was like the greatest living violin teacher in Europe at the time.

We see this all the time in music.

I mean, earlier Terence mentioned Branford Marsalis.

We all know the, you know, just the amount of amazing musical talent and ability that came out of Ellis Marsalis as the leader of that household.

So what is it to to have an.

So music is an interesting thing where it's like one of the few things where it's like the normal thing, right?

You go up, you get your clarinet and they're like, okay, here's your first lesson.

Okay, see you in a week.

Right.

And you're like, on your own, practicing for a week.

So imagine if one of your parents is a professional musician and maybe can navigate that difficult thing with kids, right?

And they actually listen to you.

What an advantage that is.

I think A.I.

is going to give us the opportunity to reduce that isolation, actually, so that you could have a practice partner in there, you could dial it up to be, you know, Russian conservatory levels of meanness and abuse.

Or you could dial it down to be, you know, someone like, hey, let's play duets together.

They could listen to you, maybe, and give you some feedback.

Hey, it seems like you're struggling with that passage here.

Maybe you might try practicing it this way.

Or, like, you're not making progress.

You need to take a break.

>> I hope it will be collaborative in the way you're describing.

Instead of outsourcing the creativity.

As long as it's collaborative.

>> Yeah.

No, I mean, I think some will be outsourced for sure.

I also think we can look to chess, which is where A.I.

showed up long before these right?

Human on human chess is more popular than it's ever been.

Human on human chess is more popular than it's ever been, and the whoever the grandmaster is right now I can't remember his name, but I've heard an interview where he easily, freely admits, like, yeah, no, my phone.

I can't beat my phone.

>> I think that might be Kasparov.

But I mean, regardless.

Yeah.

>> But but the interest in human on human chess doesn't.

So I think there's also some possibilities that in an era of deepfakes and is it real or not, the opportunity to come and see live music on acoustic instruments might actually rise in its value?

>> Well, why don't we all go see live music next week?

Let's do it.

You got gateways coming up.

You have Soundtrax coming up here.

And as we wrap up listener says, just watch Inside man last night it was phenomenal.

>> It was amazing.

>> Said had some some great sound in it.

So, you know, Terence Blanchard getting everybody excited here.

>> Such a great film.

Terence I enjoyed the mess out of that last night.

Really.

It really got me excited to see you.

>> Thank you for editing yourself there, Alex.

Thank you.

And I want to I want to thank everyone.

as we close, by the way, instead of hearing the typical Connections music, you're going to hear a little bit of Terence Blanchard.

You're going to hear Benny's tune from Terence album flow, which you can check out Terence Blanchard.

It has been our great pleasure.

Thank you for making time for the program today.

>> Oh man, it's been a blast talking to you guys and listening to everybody speak.

Thank you for having me.

>> You're going to see Terence Blanchard in Rochester next Thursday night as gateways wraps up and Soundtrax kicks off.

Mark Watters have a great time with that with the whole festival.

Thanks for sharing your expertise with us.

Mark.

>> Thank you.

It was a real pleasure.

>> Great pleasure to have Alexander Laing as always from the Gateways Music Festival have a great festival.

>> Thanks man.

>> Thank you very much and Kate Schimmer, associate Dean for Artistic Planning at the Eastman School of Music.

What a week you guys have here.

>> Thank you.

>> Thanks for sharing with us again.

In our show notes, we'll have links to the websites for gateway Soundtrax.

Check it out a lot for you to consume there.

We'll listen to a little bit of Terence as we close, and we'll be back with you tomorrow on member supported public media.

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