>>> COMING UP NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON, THE INCREASINGLY FRACTURED REPUBLICAN PARTY GIVING ARIZONA BUSINESS AND DONALD TRUMP AND MIKE PENCE.

THAT AND MORE NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON.

THIS HOUR OF LOCAL NEWS IS MADE POSSIBLE BY LOCAL CONTRIBUTIONS OF FRIENDS FRIENDS OF PBS.

THANK YOU.

>>> ARIZONA HORIZON IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE GENEROUS SUPPORT BY- >>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO ARIZONA HORIZON.

I AM TED SIMONS.

THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC REPORTS THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SAID HE IS ANNOUNCING HIS CANDIDACY FOR SENATE.

NATIONAL ISSUES AT THE EXPENSE OF CONSUMER PROTECTION.

THE PUBLIC EXAMINED IN THE NEWS RELATIONS AND REPORTS THAT THE INCREASE IN FEDERAL PARTISAN CASES GO IN SIZE WITH THE DECLINE AND EMPHASIS ON LONG ENFORCEMENT ISSUES LIKE ELDER ABUSE, FRAUD AND CORRUPTION.

THE OFFICE RESPONDED TO THE REPORT BY SAYING THERE WAS NO CORRELATION BETWEEN THE NEWS RELEASES AND HIS POLITICAL ASPIRATIONS.

>>> OTHER NEWS, THE JANUARY 6 COMMISSION INVESTIGATING THE ATTACK ON THE U.S. CAPITOL RELEASED A NEW VIDEO OF INTERVIEWS WITH DONALD TRUMP DAUGHTER AND SON-IN-LAW SHOWING THAT THE FORMER PRESIDENT CROSSED OUT LINES IN A DRAFT SPEECH THAT CONDEMNED THE CAPITOL RIOTERS.

>> DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE HANDWRITING?

>> IT LOOKS LIKE MY FATHER'S HANDWRITING.

>> IT LOOKS LIKE HERE HE CROSSED OUT THAT HE WAS SELECTING THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTIN TO ENSURE LAWBREAKERS ARE PERSECUTED TO THE EXTENT OF THE LAW.

WE MUST SEND THE MESSAGE NOT WITH MERCY BOTH WITH JUSTICE.

DO YOU KNOW WHY HE WANTED THAT CROSSED OUT?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

>> WAS THE IMPLICATION THAT THE PRESIDENT WAS IN SOME WAYS RELUCTANT TO GIVE THAT SPEECH?

>> YEAH.

>> THE PREVIOUSLY UNPUBLISHED TESTIMONY FOLLOWS EVIDENCE PRESENTED LAST WEEK SHOWING THAT TRUMP REFUSED TO SAY THE ELECTION IS OVER AND THAT HE IS FRUSTRATED WITH THE SCRIPT DURING THE REHEARSAL OF THE ADDRESS.

>>> MONKEYPOX CONTINUES TO SPREAD BUT HEALTH OFFICIALS AREN'T SURE TO HOW MUCH IT IS SPREADING.

IN GREAT PART DUE TO LACK OF DATA SHARING.

WITH 2900 CASES IN THE U.S. AT LAST REPORT IS LIKELY UNDERCOUNTED ACCORDING TO THE SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES WHO IS ASKED TO RAISE CONCERN ABOUT THE SPREAD OF DISEASE ON A SCALE OF 1 TO 10.

>> ALWAYS CONCERNED OF SOMETHING COMING THAT WE HAVEN'T HAD TO DEAL WITH OR FOR, SO A 10.

YOU DON'T WANT IT TO BECOME PART OF LIFE.

BUT HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE DIED COMPARED TO COVID?

ZERO.

>> THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION HAS COURT DECLARED MONKEYPOX A GLOBAL EMERGENCY.

>>> LAST WEEK'S VISIT BY FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP AND FORMER VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE IN ARIZONA ON THE SAME DAY IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE STATE TO STUMP FOR DIFFERENT CANDIDATE SHOWED WHAT APPEARED TO BE AN INCREASING RIFT WITHIN THE GOP.

JOINING US TO HELP MAKE SENSE OF ALL OF THIS IS JEFF COUGHLIN, PRESIDENT AND CEO OF HIGH GROUNDS.

ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO HAVE YOU.

WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THE DUELING APPEARANCES LAST WEEK?

>> IT'S THE WAY THE PARTY IS TODAY.

THE PARTY IS DEEPLY DIVIDED.

THE TRUMP FACTION OF THE PARTY CONTINUES TO LIVE IN THE PAST AND FOCUSED ON THE STOLEN ELECTION AND THE NARRATIVE WITH BOOSTS IN TRUMP'S NARRATIVE.

THERE'S A LOT OF PASSION AROUND THAT FROM THAT PART OF THE PARTY .

THERE'S ANOTHER WITHIN THE PARTY THAT WANTS TO MOVE ON INCLUDING GOVERNOR DUCEY INCLUDING MIKE PENCE AND WHAT THEY HAVE TRIED TO NARRATE OR CAMPAIGN THAT'S MORE ABOUT LOOKING FORWARD THAN LOOKING BACKWARD.

THAT IS WHAT WE SAW LAST WEEK IN THE PARTY.

I'M NOT SURE HOW WE MAKE SENSE OF IT.

I THINK WE WILL SEE IN ABOUT A WEEK.

>> IT SEEMED AS WELL THAT BOTH THE TRUMP AND PENCE RALLYING A LITTLE BIT FOR THEMSELVES AS WELL AS FOR THE CANDIDATES.

>> CLEARLY.

ALL ARIZONA VOTERS SHOULD UNDERSTAND THIS IS AN ELECTION ABOUT TWO CANDIDATES RUNNING FOR ARIZONA GOVERNOR HERE THAT WOULD BE THEIR NARRATIVES THAT WILL BE BEFORE US.

THE REST OF IT IS WINDOWDRESSING .

THE REST OF IT IS JUST A PLAY THAT DUCEY HAS A FUTURE AND PENCE WANTS TO HAVE A FUTURE.

TRUMP WANTS TO HAVE A FUTURE.

AND SO IT'S ABOUT THEM.

THE CHOICE TO ARIZONA VOTERS IS ABOUT THESE TWO CANDIDATES.

>> IS THE DONALD TRUMP MESSAGE THE DONALD TRUMP OUTRAGE, IS THAT GETTING OLD AND GETTING TO BE A TIRED ACT WITH REPUBLICANS?

>> I SENSE THAT.

I SENSE THAT IT IS BEGINNING TO DWINDLE.

OUR OWN SURVEY SHOWED A YEAR AGO THAT ALMOST 80% OF THE REPUBLICAN ELECTORATE THOUGHT THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN.

WE JUST GOT OUT OF THE FIELD ABOUT 15 DAYS AGO AND IT WAS DOWN TO 66%.

59% OF THOSE PEOPLE WERE CERTAIN .

THE WEIRD THING THERE IS DUCEY'S POPULARITY WAS STILL THE SAME.

IT WAS 60% AMONGST ELECTION DENIERS.

YOU WOULD THINK THAT THAT MESSAGE SHOWS THAT THE VOTERS ARE LOOKING AT THESE ELECTIONS IN A MORE NUANCED WAY.

>> IS IT TRUE, AND I HAVE READ THIS REPORT AND ANALYSIS, THAT REPUBLICANS IN GENERAL ARE PETRIFIED THAT DONALD TRUMP IS GOING TO RUN AGAIN?

>> I THINK THERE'S A GREAT DEAL OF CONCERN ABOUT THAT BECAUSE OF THE DIVISIVENESS IT WILL CAUSE WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

AND I THINK, CONVERSELY I THINK DEMOCRATS ARE CELEBRATING THE FACT.

THEY KNOW THEY CAN BEAT HIM.

THEY BEAT HIM LAST TIME AND THEY WILL BEAT HIM AGAIN.

BECAUSE HE IS HIS OWN WORST ENEMY.

>> BACK TO MIKE PENCE.

DOES THE GOP WANT TO HEAR, THE RANK AND FILE THE ONES THAT ARE VOTING, DO THEY WANT TO HEAR HIS KIND OF MESSAGE RIGHT NOW OR DO THEY WANT THE BOMBAST?

>> THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY IS ABOUT OUTRAGE.

THERE'S A LOT OF OUTRAGE GOING ON.

THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY IS A LOT ABOUT OUTRAGE GOING ON.

IT'S LIKE TWO OUTRAGE MACHINES YELLING AT EACH OTHER.

AND YET THE MAJORITY OF THAT ELECTORATE I THINK LOOKS AT THINGS IN A MORE NUANCED WAY.

WE WILL FIND THAT OUT.

THAT IS WHAT THEY USE.

THEY USE OUTRAGE AS A TURNOUT MACHINE INSTEAD OF A SUBSTANTIVE DISCUSSION OF THE ISSUES.

WE ARE GOING TO FIND OUT IF THE TRUMP NARRATIVE HAS JUMPED THE SHARK.

DOES THAT NARRATIVE NO LONGER.

OR.

WITH A MAJORITY OF THE REPUBLICAN ELECTORATE BECAUSE IT DOES NOT RING TRUE WITH THEM?

DO THEY NOT SEE THAT NARRATIVE AS A NARRATIVE FORWARD AND THEY WOULD RATHER LOOK AT HIM AS SOMETHING FROM THE PAST?

>> SPEAKING OF THE NARRATIVE FORWARD, LET'S SAY THAT THE TWO BIGGEST TRUMPETERS OF THEM ALL, IF THEY BOTH LOSE, THEY HAVE BOTH HINTED AND SOMETIMES EVEN STRONGLY THAT THEY MIGHT NOT ACCEPT THE RESULTS OF THIS.

>> I AM CLEAR THEY WON'T.

>> WHAT HAPPENS TO THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE IN GENERAL?

>> THEY WILL MOVE ON.

WHAT CHOICE DO YOU HAVE?

YOU MOVE ON.

WHAT THOSE CANDIDATES SAY ABOUT THEMSELVES, DOES THAT RELATE TO THEIR SUPPORTERS?

DOES THAT REALLY RELATE TO THEIR SUPPORTERS?

WE SEE THERE IS SOME FALLOFF IN THAT.

WE WILL SEE HOW THAT TRANSLATES IN THIS CYCLE.

I THINK IT WILL BE FUNNY FOR INSTANCE IF BLAKE DENIES THE OUTCOME.

HOW DOES THAT WORK?

>> THAT WILL BE CURIOUS.

>> THOUGH SHE RING THAT BELL?

I DON'T THINK SHE CAN.

I DON'T THINK SHE COULD LEGITIMATELY CAN DO THAT.

>> I DON'T SEE CARY LAKE STUMPING FOR KAREN TAYLOR ROBESON.

I DON'T THINK KAREN TAYLOR ROBESON WILL DO.

WITH CARRIE LAKE.

>> I THINK THERE WILL BE EFFORTS TO MEND THOSE THINGS.

BUT I DON'T REALLY SEE THAT HAPPENING EITHER.

THE LAKE NARRATIVE HAS BEEN THE SAME NARRATIVE FROM THE GET-GO GET GO.

IT IS ANTIESTABLISHMENT, PRO- TRUMP AND NOT NARRATING ABOUT THE BROAD RANGE OF ISSUES THAT YOU NEED IS A GOVERNOR TO MOVE FORWARD.

IT'S BEEN ELECTION INTEGRITY.

IT'S BEEN STOLEN ELECTION.

IT HAS BEEN TRUMP.

IT REALLY DOESN'T WIGGLE OUT OF THAT SPACE.

MY GUT IS THAT IT'S TOO NARROW OF A PLATFORM.

IF YOU ARE A LAKE VOTER YOU ARE NOT UNDECIDED RIGHT NOW.

YOU ARE AT HELLO.

WHAT IS LEFT OF THIS UNDECIDED AUDIENCE ARE PEOPLE THAT I THINK ARE LOOKING FOR ADDITIONAL VOTER SIGNALS FROM A CANDIDATE LIKE ROBESON WHO IS SAYING A LOT OF PEOPLE CAME UP AND SAID SHE IS JUST ANOTHER TRUMPER.

I SAID I DON'T THINK SO.

SHE'S A BROADER RANGE CANDIDATE AND WHAT SHE'S BEEN DOING OVER THE LAST MONTH OR SO IS DELIVERING MESSAGES TO THOSE VOTERS.

>> WE HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT.

IN TERMS OF THE BIG REPUBLICAN TENT WE HEARD OF YEARS AGO, BUT IN TERMS OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN GENERAL, YOU HAVE BOWERS, LIZ CHENEY.

THESE PEOPLE ARE HOMELESS, IT SEEMS.

RUSTY BOWERS CENSURED BY THE STATE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

WHERE DO THEY GO?

WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY?

>> RUSTY IS LIKELY TO LOSE.

HE HAS AN OPPONENT RUNNING HARD TO THE RIGHT OF HIM AND HE MAY LOSE THIS ELECTION FOR STATE SENATE OUT HERE.

I THINK WE WILL SEE THIS CONTINUE.

I THINK WE WILL SEE THIS CONTINUE.

I AM ON MY OWN SOAPBOX HERE.

IT WILL BE UP TO US TO GET VOTERS IN ARIZONA TO DECIDE IF THIS CURRENT ELECTION SYSTEM IS WORKING FOR US.

DOES IT REALLY REPRESENT AN UNAFFILIATED VOTER, NOW THE LARGEST SEGMENT OF THE VOTING BLOC?

ARE WE POSITIONING OURSELVES FOR THE DECISION WE SHOULD BE MAKING ?

OR ARE WE CONTINUING TO MAKE CHOICES IN VERY NARROW PLACES?

WHY NOT OPEN THE PRIMARY UP?

WHY NOT LET EVERYBODY VOTE FOR EVERY CANDIDATE?

I AM HOPING THAT SOMETHING LIKE THAT COMES FORWARD.

I THINK THAT'S THE NARRATIVE GOING FORWARD BECAUSE AS LONG AS TRUMP NARRATIVE REMAINS A REPUBLICAN PARTY CAN POSSIBLY BE IN THERE.

>> IT IS ALWAYS A PLEASURE.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>>> UP NEXT A SUPREME COURT RULING ON THE FUTURE OF MIRANDA WARNINGS WHICH BY THE WAY CAME OUT OF A 60-YEAR-OLD CASE RIGHT HERE IN ARIZONA.

>>> A RECENT U.S. OF PORN SUPREME COURT RULING REGARDING THE READING OF MIRANDA RIGHTS IN CIVIL CASES.

THE COURT HELD THAT POLICE OFFICERS CANNOT BE SUEDE IN CIVIL COURT FOR IMPROPER MIRANDA WARNINGS.

IT IS SEEN AS AN EFFORT BY THE CONSERVATIVE COURT TO FURTHER ERODE MIRANDA RIGHTS WHICH ORIGINALLY CAME ABOUT DUE TO A CASE IN ARIZONA BACK IN THE EARLY 19 60S.

JOINING US IS GARY STEWART, THE AUTHOR OF MIRANDA, THE STORY OF AMERICA'S RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT .

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN AND THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU, TED.

HAPPY TO BE HERE.

>> GIVE US A BETTER INDICATION ON WHAT THE SUPREME COURT DECIDED IN THIS CASE.

>> THEY DECIDED THE LONGTIME BENEFIT OF MIRANDA WARNINGS INCLUDED THE RIGHT THAT IF MIRANDA WARNINGS WEREN'T GIVEN PROPERLY AND THE SUSPECTS RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT WAS VIOLATED INTENTIONALLY BY THE OFFICER, THEN THE OFFICER COULD BE SUEDE.

COULD BE SUEDE IN A CIVIL CASE UNDER SECTION 1983.

THAT'S BEEN GOING OFF FOR A LONG TIME.

20 YEARS PLUS.

IT'S A VIEW THAT SOME PEOPLE PROJECTED EXCLUSIVELY ON THE CONSERVATIVE SIDE OF JUSTICES ON THE SUPREME COURT.

EVEN IF THE MIRANDA WARNINGS WERE NOT PROPERLY GIVEN OR NOT GIVEN AT ALL, BUT WE'RE USED IN THE CRIMINAL TRIAL, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE THE CRIMINAL WAS ADJUDICATED NOT GUILTY BY THE JURY THAT TRIED HIM.

HE THAN SUEDE THE OFFICERS INVOLVED IN ORDER TO SUSTAIN HIS RIGHTS BECAUSE OF THE PRIVILEGES .

THIS COURT SAID YOU CANNOT DO THAT.

YOU CANNOT BRING FORWARD IN A CIVIL CASE THE BREACH OF YOUR RIGHTS EVEN IF IT WAS INTENTIONAL AND EVEN IF THE OFFICER DID NOT GIVE THE MIRANDA WARNINGS.

THAT'S WHAT THEY DID.

THE PURPOSE OF THAT IN MY OPINION IS TO FURTHER WEAKEN THE BASIC MIRANDA DOCTRINE.

>> THE REASONING OF THIS DECISION, BASICALLY IT SOUNDS WEAK YOU ARE SAYING VIOLATION OF A MIRANDA WARNING IS NOT A VIOLATION OF THE CONSTITUTION ITSELF.

AM I GETTING THAT RIGHT?

>> NO.

THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE SAYING BUT THAT IS NOT THE CASE.

WE KNOW THAT MIRANDA IS A CONSTITUTIONAL DECISION BY THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT IN 1966.

THE REASON WE KNOW THAT IS THAT IN 2000 IN THE DICKERSON CASE BY CHIEF JUSTICE REHNQUIST THE COURT SAID CATEGORICALLY THAT MIRANDA IS A CONSTITUTIONAL DECISION OF THIS COURT AND MIRANDA UPHOLDS THE RIGHT OF SOMEBODY IN CUSTODIAL INTERROGATION SAYING TO THEN MOVE FORWARD TO AVOID BOTH THE CRIMINAL TRIAL AT SOME OTHER DATE IF HE OR SHE CHOOSES TO FILE AN ACTION UNDER SECTION 19834 CIVIL RIGHTS ACT AGAINST THE OFFICERS WHO BREACHED AND FAILED TO GIVE HIM HIS CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE.

>> WITH THAT IN MIND, AGAIN, MIRANDA WARNINGS AND THE MIRANDA CASE YOU DON'T WANT FALSE CONFESSIONS.

YOU DON'T WANT THESE THINGS GOING ON.

DOES THAT MEANS THESE THINGS COULD SOON GO BACK TO GOING ON?

>> YES.

IT OPENS THE DOOR BECAUSE IT CREATES AN INCENTIVE OF SORTS FOR THE POLICE OFFICER TO INTENTIONALLY VIOLATE THE SUSPECT'S CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO SAY IN COURT I DID GIVE HIM HIS CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

THE FACT THAT THERE IS NO DOCUMENT PROVING THAT AND THE FACT THERE IS NO RECORDING OF IT , THAT IS NOT MY PROBLEM.

HE CONFESSED TO ME.

IF THE SUSPECT IN THAT CASE IS NOW A DEFENDANT AND NO LONGER JUST A SUSPECT, IF THE SUSPECT PREVAILS, THE SUSPECT HAS A 1983 RIGHT TO SUE.

THAT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR MANY YEARS.

ONLY NOW IN 2022 DO YOU GET A DECISION THAT SAYS NOW WE ARE GOING TO TAKE AWAY YOUR RIGHT TO SUE.

IF YOU READ THE OPINION THE WAY I DO WE WILL STILL RELUCTANTLY APPROVE OF THE DOCTRINE ITSELF.

THE POLICE OFFICER HAS TO GIVE THEM MIRANDA WARNINGS.

EVEN IF HE DOESN'T, HE DOESN'T GIVE MIRANDA WARNINGS, THAT STAYS ON CRIMINAL COURT.

WE DON'T WANT TO EXPAND THIS OUT OF THE CRIMINAL REALM INTO THE CIVIL REALM OF SECTION 1983 AS A CIVIL CASE.

SO THAT IS WHERE WE ARE.

>> REAL QUICKLY, ABOUT 30 SECONDS LEFT.

AS FAR AS THIS RULING IS CONCERNED, DOES IT SOUND AS THOUGH THE MIRANDA WARNING, WE NEED TO USE THIS PHRASE, IT'S USED BY DATE IS GETTING CLOSE TO BEING DONE?

>> THAT'S WHAT I SAID.

WE ARE GETTING CLOSE.

THE MORE CONSERVATIVE THE COURT BECOMES, THE MORE CONSERVATIVE OPINIONS THE COURT RELEASES.

THE MORE RISK WE HAVE, EVERY AMERICAN BECAUSE WE ALL HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT.

WE USED TO HAVE THE RIGHT TO SUE THE GOVERNMENT IF THAT RATE WAS VIOLATED.

WE HAVE NOW LOST THAT THANKS TO THIS COURT.

TO NOT GARY STEWART, COLLEGE OF LAW.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

GOODBYE.

>>> GOVERNOR DUCEY RECEIPTS SIGNED A BILL INTO LAW THAT WOULD ALLOW ANYONE ENROLLED IN COLLEGE TO KEEP IN A PUBLIC STATE CLASSROOM.

THE NEW LAW ALLOWS STUDENTS THE FREEDOM TO FIND TEACHERS.

IT LOWERS TEACHING STANDARDS IN THE STATE.

THERE ARE BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUE.

WE WELCOME THE PRESIDENT OF THE ARIZONA EDUCATION ASSOCIATION AND AN ATTORNEY.

BOOK GOOD TO HAVE YOU HEAR.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS IDEA OF SAYING YOU HAVE TO BE ENROLLED, BUT YOU DON'T NEED A DEGREE TO TEACH?

>> I THINK THAT IT HAS BEEN A PRIORITY OF THE LEGISLATURE AND GOVERNOR TO THINK THAT THIS WILL HELP KEEP TEACHERS IN THE CLASSROOM AND STOP THE TEACHER EXODUS.

THAT IS NOT REALLY WHAT IS GOING TO HELP BUILD THESE POSITION.

WE HEAR OF HUNDREDS OF POSITIONS OPEN WITH SCHOOLS STARTING THIS WEEK AND NEXT WEEK.

WE REALLY SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT PAY AND RESPECT.

WHEN WE TURN OUR ATTENTION TO DIFFERENT WAYS OF GETTING FOLKS INTO THE CLASSROOM, WE ARE IGNORING WHY PEOPLE ARE LEAVING THE CLASSROOM.

>> IS THIS A WAY OF IGNORING THE REAL REASON?

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

PAY AND RESPECT IS A HUGE AND IMPORTANT PIECE OF WHAT HAS GOT TO BE SOLVED.

THE LEGISLATURE HAS TO STOP THINKING OF EDUCATION AS A TAX COST AND SOMETHING THAT OUR SOCIETY PROVIDES.

THEY SUPPLY PUBLIC SAFETY.

WE HAVE TWO SIDES ARGUING EACH IS A COST OF THE SOCIETY RATHER THEN THE BENEFIT.

IN EDUCATION IN THIS INSTANCE WITH THIS BILL IT'S NOT TRYING TO SOLVE THE RESPECT TO PAY ISSUE.

IT'S ABOUT TRYING TO BRING STUDENTS INTO THE CLASSROOM WHO ARE ENROLLED IN THE COLLEGE AND GIVE THEM ESSENTIALLY A HANDS ON EXPERIENCE TO LEARN HOW TO TEACH THAT WOULD STOP THE PATHWAY OF HAVING STUDENTS SUDDENLY SURPRISED WHEN THEY GRADUATE AND BECOME CERTIFIED TEACHERS AND THEN DISCOVER THAT THEY DON'T LIKE THE CLASSROOM SO MUCH.

THIS PUTS PEOPLE INTO THE CLASSROOM AS A TRAINING PROGRAM.

THEY ARE MUCH MORE LIKELY TO FIND A GOOD FIT FOR STUDENTS AND SCHOOLS IN GREAT AREAS.

>> THAT SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD IDEA FOR RECRUITMENT.

>> IT'S AN IDEA FOR RECRUITMENT.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT WE GET ONE SHOT OF STARTING THE SCHOOL YEAR WITH THE STUDENTS.

WE GET ONE SHOT OF DELIVERING INSTRUCTION TO THE STUDENTS.

EVEN AS A MOTHER WHEN I DROP OFF MY SON AT HIGH SCHOOL I AM ASSUMING THAT EVERYONE WHO IS IN FRONT OF HIM IS QUALIFIED AND HIS TEACHING AND READY TO GO.

HE ONLY GETS ONE SHOT AT THAT GRADE LEVEL.

I WOULD MUCH RATHER SPEND ALL OF THIS TIME AND ENERGY TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO KEEP TEACHERS IN SCHOOLS AS VETERAN EDUCATORS TO MAKE SURE THEY DON'T LEAVE AND GO TO ANOTHER STATE OR LEAVE THE PROFESSION ENTIRELY.

>> CERTAINLY A BILLION DOLLARS COULD HELP SOLVE THAT PROBLEM AS WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER.

THIS IS NOT KEEPING KIDS IN THE CLASSROOM WHO ARE NOT YET CERTIFIED AS TEACHERS.

THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TEACH WITHOUT A SUPERVISING TEACHER.

THE GOAL IS LIKE IN THE OLD DAYS , YOU AND I HAD STUDENT TEACHERS IN OUR CLASSROOM.

THAT'S HOW THIS PROGRAM WILL BE MANAGED.

I HAPPEN TO BELIEVE THAT HIGHLY QUALIFIED TEACHERS IS WHAT MATTERS, NOT CERTIFICATION.

THE UNION OPPOSED THE EXPERT STANDARD 10 YEARS AGO WHILE I WAS ADVOCATING IT.

CHARTER SCHOOLS HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO HIRE AND USE FIELD EXPERTS IN THE CLASSROOM.

A PHYSICIST FROM MOTOROLA OR A CHEMIST FROM THE FOREST SERVICE CAME TO MY CAMPUS.

THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO FIND STUDENTS WHO ARE MOVING TOWARD HIGH QUALIFICATION IN THEIR FIELD AND THEN THEY BECOME CERTIFIED TEACHERS THROUGH THIS PROCESS.

THAT'S A GREAT PROCESS.

I KNOW LOTS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE EXPERTS IN THEIR FIELD THAT DON'T HAVE COLLEGE DEGREES.

>> WE HAVE HEARD THAT ARGUMENT A LOT.

THE TEACHING DEGREE IS GREAT.

BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO KNOW THINGS THAT CAN TEACH THINGS THAT AREN'T ALLOWED TO TEACH RIGHT NOW.

HOW DO YOU RESPOND?

>> IF ONLY THAT WAS MY JOB.

IF MY ONLY JOB TO STAND IN FRONT OF THE STUDENTS AND REPEAT TO THEM THE HISTORY THAT I LEARNED IN COLLEGE FOR MY DEGREE IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

THAT'S NOT REALLY THE JOB.

THE JOB IS TO CONNECT WITH STUDENTS AND TEACH THEM CRITICAL THINKING AND HELP THEM UNDERSTAND BRAIN DEVELOPMENT AND HOW TO GET THEM TO COOPERATIVELY WORK TOGETHER.

I NEED TO LEARN THAT PRIOR TO ACTUALLY TEACHING.

THERE'S LEVELS OF WHAT I'M EXPECTED TO DO IN THE CLASSROOM AND IT'S NOT JUST A DIRECT DELIVERY OF IDEAS AND HISTORICAL FACTS.

>> THOSE SKILLS CAN BE LEARNED IN THE CLASSROOMS WITH EXPERTS PROVIDING MENTORSHIP.

I AGAIN WOULD SAY THAT THEY OPPOSED SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS IN THE CLASSROOM WHO ULTIMATELY HAVE DEMONSTRATED GREAT ABILITY NOT ONLY TO CONVEY THEIR SUBJECT BUT ULTIMATELY MASTER TEACHING SKILLS AT THE HAND OF MASTER TEACHERS.

THAT'S A GREAT OUTCOME FOR STUDENTS.

TO MAKE THIS IS ANOTHER WAY FOR THE LEGISLATURE NOT TO SPEND MONEY ON TEACHER SALARIES AND ELEVATE THAT PROFESSION.

>> I SAY A BILLION DOLLARS JUST GOT SPENT.

IT'S ENOUGH.

WE WOULD AGREE ON THAT.

RESPECT AND PAY IS FUNDAMENTALLY WHAT WE NEED TO GET TO.

THIS DOES NOT GET IN THE WAY OF DOING THAT.

IT'S ANOTHER METHOD TO TRY TO TRAIN YOUNG STUDENTS WHO ARE IN COLLEGE TO LEARN TO TEACH AT THE SAME TIME THEY DISCOVER WHETHER OR NOT THEY WANT TO BE TEACHERS.

WE HAVE SPENT A LOT OF RESOURCES TRAINING PEOPLE WHO SHOW UP IN CLASSROOMS AND FIND OUT THEY DON'T LIKE IT.

ON-THE-JOB TRAINING IS A GREAT WAY TO SOLVE THAT.

>> ON-THE-JOB TRAINING?

>> LET'S BE CLEAR.

THERE ARE ALMOST 20,000 PEOPLE IN ARIZONA WITH TEACHER CERTIFICATIONS WHO ARE CHOOSING NOT TO TEACH.

A LOT OF TIMES THAT IS BECAUSE OF THE PAY AND RESPECT.

WE KEEP GOING AROUND IN THE SAME CIRCLE.

WE HAVE TO INVEST IN OUR SCHOOLS .

WE HAVE TO KEEP THE VETERAN EDUCATORS IN OUR SCHOOLS FOR OUR STUDENTS.

WE NEED A MODEL RESPECT FROM THE GOVERNORS OFFICE TO THE LEGISLATURE INSTEAD OF WASTING TIME ON THESE POLICIES AND KEEP THOSE GREAT EDUCATORS IN THE CLASSROOM.

>> WE HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT.

IS THIS A WAY TO RETAIN?

>> WE NEED TO DEVELOP RESPECT AND FINANCIAL RESOURCES THAT WILL HELP PAY TEACHERS AND BRING SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT HAVE LEFT THE FIELD BACK INTO THE FIELD.

>> IF THEY KNOW PEOPLE THAT DON'T HAVE A DEGREE ARE IN FRONT OF CLASSROOMS, WHAT ARE THEY THINKING?

>> THERE ARE STUDENTS LEARNING TO TEACH.

WHY ARE WE PUTTING THESE TWO IDEAS AGAINST EACH OTHER WHEN THE GOAL SHOULD BE TO IMPROVE EDUCATION ACROSS THE BOARD.

>> AND THE TWO TRACKS STILL GO FORWARD?

>> I WOULD THINK AT SOME POINT THEY WOULD.

WE NEED TO SEE LEADERSHIP FROM THE GOVERNORS OFFICE AND THE LEGISLATURE.

WE SAW THE FIRST MOVE WITH THIS BUDGET.

WE HAVE A LOT MORE BUDGET BEFORE WE GET TO WHERE WE NEED TO BE.

>> GOOD CARS GOOD CONVERSATION.

GLAD TO HAVE YOU HEAR.

WE APPRECIATE IT.

>> THAT IS IT FOR NOW.

I AM TED SIMON.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

>>> WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU.

SUBMIT YOUR QUESTIONS, COMMENTS AND CONCERNS VIA E-MAIL AT ARIZONA ARAYA HORIZON-ARIZONA HORIZON.

>>> COMING UP TONIGHT ON ARIZONA PBS.

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