FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, POLITICAL FALLOUT IS BUILDING AROUND THE NEW MEXICO REPUBLICAN CONVENTION, WHY THE RESULTS ARE CAUSING SO MUCH DISCUSSION.

>> Castillo: HE HIS NOT GOING TO TURN HISTORY BACK.

HISTORY IS MOVING FORMED AND WE ARE FREE AND WE WANT TO BE FREE.

>> Gene: A GROUP OF UKRAINIAN AMERICANS HERE IN NEW MEXICO ON WHAT MORE THE U.S. AND OUR STATE CAN DO TO SUPPORT THEIR FRIENDS AND LOVED ONES TRYING TO SURVIVE THE RUSSIAN INVASION.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I AM YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

THE SITUATION ON THE GROUND IN UKRAINE CHANGES BY THE MINUTE.

CIVILIAN AREAS ARE BEING BOMBED AND UKRAINIAN CITIZENS ARE TRYING TO PROTECT THEIR COUNTRY.

IN JUST OVER 10 MINUTES I SPEAK WITH A UKRAINIAN PROFESSOR SHELTERING OUTSIDE THE CAPITOL OF KYIV.

I ASKED WHAT HE HAS SEEN AND HE SHARES SOME INSIGHT ON THE TACTICS FROM THE KREMLIN.

HERE IN NEW MEXICO A GROUP OF UKRAINIAN AMERICANS ARE WORKING HARD TO HELP PEOPLE IN THEIR HOME COUNTRY NAVIGATE UNCERTAINTY.

THE NONPROFIT HAS BEEN HOLDING DEMONSTRATIONS TO RAISE SUPPORT FOR MORE THAN A MONTH, EVEN BEFORE RUSSIA'S INVASION BEGAN.

THEY SAY THEY SAW THIS COMING.

IN THE SECOND HALF, I'LL ASK WHAT SUPPORT THEY NEED FROM US AS BOTH AMERICANS AND NEW MEXICANS.

OUR GOVERNOR IS PUTTING OUR STATE IN THE NATIONAL SPOTLIGHT FOR A DIFFERENT REASON THIS WEEK.

HYDROGEN.

GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM SIGNED ONTO A PLAN WITH COLORADO, UTAH AND WYOMING TO LOBBY TOGETHER FOR A CHUNK OF EIGHT BILLION IN FEDERAL FUNDING.

IN ABOUT 20 MINUTES I'LL ASK OUR LINE OPINION PANELISTS HOW THIS COULD IMPACT OUR STATE.

FIRST, LAST WEEK'S NEW MEXICO REPUBLICAN CONVENTION IS STILL GENERATING HEADLINES.

THE BIGGEST CONTROVERSY CENTERED AROUND THE VOTE FOR PRIMARY CANDIDATES FOR GOVERNOR WITH ONE NOTABLE CONTENDER LEFT OFF.

LET'S GET TO THE LINE.

>> Gene: THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING US AT THE ROUND ABLE THIS WEEK.

FIRST WE HAVE A FORMER NEW MEXICO SENATOR.

THAT WOULD BE DEDE FELDMAN.

NEXT IS ANOTHER REGULAR ON OUR PROGRAM, MERRITT ALLEN FROM VOX OPTIMA PUBLIC RELATIONS, WELCOME BACK JESSICA ONSUREZ, NEWS DIRECTOR AT THE CARLSBAD CURRENT ARGUS.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU ALL HERE.

START WITH YOUR REACTION TO THE REPUBLICAN CONVENTION HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

IT IS A BIG YEAR WITH THE RACE FOR GOVERNOR IN THE FALL AND THE PARTY GOT A CHANCE TO CHOOSE TOP CANDIDATES.

GETTING ENOUGH DELEGATE VOTES TO BE ON THE BALLOT IN THE PRIMARY ARE SANDOVAL COUNTY COMMISSIONER, JAY BLOCK, STATE REPRESENT REBECCA DOW AND WEST POINT GRADUATE AND VETERAN GREG ZANETTI IN THAT ORDER.

THE NOTABLE EXCEPTION IS MARK RONCHETTI, THE FORMER TV WEATHER MAN AND SENATE CANDIDATE.

WHAT WAS THE THOUGHT PROCESS HERE FOR DELEGATES?

IS THERE SOMETHING GLEANED FROM THE ORDER OF THE DELEGATES HERE AND WE'LL GET TO THE ACTUAL CONVENTION AND ITS MACHINATIONS IN A SECOND.

I WANT TO CONCENTRATE ON WHO CAME IN, WHAT, WHERE.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN IN THE LONG RUN TO YOU?

>> Merritt: VERY LITTLE JUST BECAUSE THE CONVENTION ITSELF WAS SO DISORDERED.

I JUST THINK IT IS REALLY HARD TO SAY.

OF COURSE YOU ALSO HAVE THE TOP TWO CANDIDATES BEING SEVEN DELEGATES APART.

YOU HAVE GOT THE FOURTH PLACE FINISHER, WHO DIDN'T EVEN REALLY TRY TO CAMPAIGN FOR DELEGATES AND THEN YOU HAVE THE TOP THREE FINISHERS WHO WERE 50 DELEGATES APART OUT OF A TOTAL CONVENTION PARTICIPATION OF REALLY A RECORD TURNOUT OF ALMOST 800 DELEGATES ATTENDING.

SO, IT WAS A CLOSE FINISH AMONG THE TOP THREE.

THE FOURTH FINISHER WASN'T EVEN SEEKING DELEGATES.

>> Gene: JESSICA, I HAVE TO ASK RIGHT OFF THE TOP, MR. RONCHETTI WILL BE ON THE BALLOT ANYWAY.

WE KNEW THAT GOING IN TO THE CONVENTION.

IS THIS SNUB SOMETHING THAT MR. RONCHETTI CAN USE TO HIS ADVANTAGE POLITICALLY?

>> Onsurez: I DO THINK SO.

WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS EARLIER AND THE FACT THAT THERE IS SOMETHING TO BE SAID FOR HOW HE CAME OUT A LITTLE BIT SHINY FROM I KNOW YOU WILL TALK ABOUT THE SHENANIGANS AT THE CONVENTIONAL ALL TOGETHER BUT HE CAME OUT ON TOP WITH VOTERS, MEDIA AND THE PUBLIC.

SIGNATURES SAY ONE THING ABOUT A CANDIDATE VERSUS DELEGATE VOTES.

I AM NOT PARTICULARLY AN INSIDER.

I DON'T CARE FOR DELEGATES VOTES WHEN I HAVE VOTERS SUPPORT.

LOOK AT ALL THE SIGNATURES I HAVE UP FRONT.

I DO THINK HE HAS GOT, YOU KNOW, HE HAS GOT SOMETHING GOING FOR HIM WITH NAME RECOGNITION AND WITH THE WAR CHEST HE MANAGED TO AMOUNT AHEAD OF THE OTHER DELEGATES.

IT HAS CONTINUED GOODWILL LIKE THAT, WHO IS TO SAY HE CAN'T COME OUT AS THE PREMIER CANDIDATE AGAINST MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM.

>> Gene: SENATOR FELDMAN, I HAVE TO READ YOU A QUOTE FROM MR. RONCHETTI.

I FOUND THIS AMAZING.

QUOTE, I AM CONCERNED BECAUSE OF THE BACK BITING AND BACK STABBING THAT THIS PROCESS HAS BECOME.

WE HAVE GOT GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATES TRYING TO KEEP EACH OTHERS GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATES OFF THE BALLOT.

WE HAVE CHEAP SHOT COWARDS GOING OUT THERE SENDING TEXTS ANONYMOUSLY.

GROW UP, THIS ISN'T WHO WE ARE.

THAT IS AMAZING TO ME, TAKING ON A PARTY LIKE THAT, THE PARTY THAT YOU WANT TO LEAD OSTENSIBLY FOR THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE.

WHAT IS HE SAYING TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY OF NEW MEXICO WITH THESE KIND OF QUOTES.

>> Dede: HE IS SAYING GROW UP.

I THINK THAT RONCHETTI LOOKS GOOD JUST BECAUSE EVERYBODY ELSE LOOKS SO TERRIBLE AND HE HAS BEEN ABLE TO DISTANCE HIMSELF FROM THE CLOWN CAR, SO TO SPEAK.

IT IS NOT HARD TO DO BECAUSE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, EVEN THOUGH THIS WAS OBVIOUSLY A DISASTER IN TERMS OF BACK BITING, IN TERMS OF MISCOUNT, IN TERMS OF DELAYS, IN TERMS OF BANNING THE MEDIA FROM THE VOTE COUNT, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY ITSELF THINKS IT WAS SPECTACULAR.

THEY SAY IT WAS A PARAGON OF ELECTION INTEGRITY AND SO RONCHETTI IS JUST LAUGHING ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK BECAUSE, OF COURSE, HE HAS RAISED OVER A MILLION DOLLARS AND IS A FRONT RUNNER.

TO ME, THIS JUST LIKE REALLY CLEARLY POINTS OUT HOW ANTIQUATED THESE POLITICAL CONVENTIONS ARE, THESE PREPRIMARY CONVENTIONS.

THEY ARE UNNECESSARY.

AND THEY ARE JUST, YOU KNOW, A TRAP WAITING TO GO WRONG AND BRING DOWN THE PARTY.

BUT OF COURSE THE PARTY WANTS TO KEEP THEM BECAUSE IT INCREASES THEIR INFLUENCE AND THEIR POWER BUT, YOU KNOW, WE DID AWAY WITH THESE SMOKE FILLED ROOMS AT THE BEGINNING OF THE CENTURY.

NATIONALLY.

AND, NOW SUDDENLY THEY ARE BACK WITHOUT THE SMOKE.

BUT WITH A LOT OF BOONDOGGLES.

>> Gene: THAT IS RIGHT.

MERRITT, I GOT TO KNOW.

YOU WERE THERE, YOU WERE EYE WITNESS.

WHAT WENT WRONG HERE?

>> Merritt: I WAS NOT AT THE STATE CONVENTION.

I WAS AT BERNALILLO COUNTY CONVENTION.

I WAS NOT ABLE TO BE AT STATE CONVENTION AS I WAS NOT SELECTED TO BE A DELEGATE BY BERNALILLO COUNTY.

I DID HAVE -- I DID GET SOME EYE WITNESS ACCOUNTS, AND, OF COURSE, I FOLLOWED MEDIA WHO WERE COVERING WHAT THEY COULD BECAUSE IT WAS NOT AN ENTIRELY OPEN PROCESS TO THE MEDIA WHICH WAS A MISTAKE.

WHAT MARKED BOTH CONVENTIONS, BOTH IN THE LARGEST COUNTY IN THE STATE AND STATE CONVENTION WAS INEPTNESS AND THAT IS A REAL CONCERN FOR ME.

BOTH WITH JUST LETTING PARTICIPANTS KNOW WHAT TIME TO BE THERE.

THAT WAS DIFFICULT TO FIND OUT AT THE COUNTY LEVEL.

THAT WAS A PROBLEM AT THE STATE CONVENTION.

DELEGATES WERE TURNED AWAY AFTER BEING TOLD IN THEIR REGISTRATION INFORMATION BY EMAIL THAT REGISTRATION WOULD TAKE PLACE BETWEEN 9:00 AND 9:30 ON SATURDAY MORNING.

SOME DELEGATES ARRIVED AT 8:58 WERE TOLD IT WAS CLOSED AND THEY COULD NOT GET CREDENTIALS AND WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO VOTE.

>> Gene: WOW.

>> Merritt: IS THAT DELIBERATE?

IT IS HARD TO KNOW.

SIMILAR ISSUES AT THE BERNALILLO COUNTY CONVENTION.

A RULE CHANGE WAS ANNOUNCED THAT WAS APPARENTLY NOT VOTED ON BY THE COUNTY CENTRAL COMMITTEE.

IT WAS JUST SIMPLY ANNOUNCED BY SOME PEOPLE THAT ONLY CERTAIN COMMITTEE MEMBERS WOULD BE VOTING ON DELEGATES AS OPPOSED -- >> Gene: WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT OF THAT?

THAT IS KIND OF CONFUSING.

ISN'T THE POINT TO HAVE EVERYBODY VOTE AT A CONVENTION?

>> Merritt: NOT IN BERNALILLO COUNTY.

SO THAT HAPPENED.

THEN BERNALILLO COUNTY ALSO LIKE AT THE STATE CONVENTION, THERE WAS DIFFICULTY IN VOTING, SO VOTING COULDN'T HAPPEN RIGHT AWAY.

>> Gene: WHAT HAPPENED THERE?

WHAT IS YOUR INSIDE INFORMATION ON THE DELAY ON THE VOTE COUNT?

>> Merritt: AT STATE OUR COUNTY?

>> Gene: STATE.

>> Merritt: THE EMAIL -- IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE BY EMAIL AND THE EMAIL SYSTEM DID NOT WORK SO THEY HAD TO PRINT BALLOTS, THEN THE BALLOTS YOU WENT AND VOTED BY YOUR CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT.

WELL THERE WERE THEIR LIE 800 PEOPLE THERE SO YOU HAD TO STAND?

LINE OF A LINE WITH MORE THAN 100 PEOPLE IN IT AND THEN THERE WERE PROXIES, SO YOU STOOD IN LINE FOR YOUR PROXY THEN YOU HAD TO GO TO THE BACK OF LINE AND VOTE FOR YOURSELF.

AND THEN, OF COURSE, THE MEDIA WERE KEPT IN A SEPARATE ROOM AND COULD NOT BE WITNESS TO THAT.

THERE WAS NO REASON FOR THAT.

THERE WERE NO SECRETS.

THERE WERE ONLY -- THERE WERE NO WRITE-IN CANDIDATES.

THERE WAS NOTHING THAT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN COMPLETELY TRANSPARENT.

BERNALILLO COUNTY IT WAS THE OPPOSITE.

IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR AT LARGE DELEGATES WERE NOT SELECTED BY THEIR WARDS.

IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A PAPER BALLOT.

THEY FOUND THERE WAS NO WAY TO PRINT BALLOTS AT THE CONVENTION CENTER, SO THAT WAS EMAILED, DONE LATER.

IT WAS VOTING IRREGULARITY THAT I FELT SHOULD HAVE BEEN CONTINGENCIES THAT WERE PLANNED FOR IN BOTH LOCATIONS.

WHETHER THIS WAS EXTREME INEPTNESS OR DELIBERATE, I DON'T KNOW.

I FEEL AMONG THE CANDIDATES, I DON'T FEEL THERE ARE ANY LOSERS BUT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY LOST.

>> Gene: I APPRECIATE YOU TAKING THE TIME ON THAT.

SENATOR FELDMAN, WERE YOU PROVIDED AT ALL THAT JAY BLOCK FINISHED HIGHER THAN REBECCA DOW AND GREG ZANETTI.

>> Dede: I WAS VERY SURPRISED AND I THINK THESE PARTY CONVENTIONS SHOW THE POWER OF THE INSIDERS.

YOU KNOW, THE CANDIDATES CAMPAIGN TO THE DELEGATES NOT TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC OR NOT EVEN TO THE MASS OF REPUBLICAN VOTERS STATE-WIDE.

THERE IS A VERY SMALL TARGETED AUDIENCE.

IT IS DANGEROUS BECAUSE MANY TIMES THE NOMINEE OF A STATE PARTY AT THEIR CONVENTION LOSES BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT REALLY THE CHOICE OF THE PEOPLE.

GARY KING, FOR EXAMPLE, AT THE DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION, I DON'T KNOW, THE SAME YEAR THAT SUSANA MARTINEZ RAN, THEY WON IN THE DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION BUT LOST MIGHTILY IN THE GENERAL ELECTIONS.

SO, ONCE AGAIN, I THINK WE NEED TO REEVALUATE HOW -- WHETHER IT IS NOT DESTRUCTIVE TO THE PARTY TO HOLD THESE PRIMARY CONVENTIONS EVERY OTHER YEAR, SPEND A LOT OF MONEY ON IT, SPEND A LOT OF TIME ON IT, RATHER THAN ORGANIZING THE GRASS ROOTS OF THEIR PARTY.

WHICH I THINK MANY FEEL SHOULD HAVE THEIR VOICE HEARD AS WELL AS THOSE WHO CAN AFFORD TO TRAVEL TO A STATE CONVENTION AND ENDURE THE KIND OF THINGS THAT MERRITT WAS TALKING ABOUT.

IN ORDER TO JUST CAST THEIR LITTLE VOTE.

>> Gene: JESSICA, BEFORE WE GET OUT OF THIS ONE, CURIOUS, JESSICA, REBECCA DOW SEEMED TO BE THE FAVORITE FOR THE ESTABLISHMENT GOING IN.

WHAT HAPPENED THERE?

MY GUESS AT A CONVENTION WOULD HAVE BEEN HER ALL THE WAY.

BUT IT DIDN'T HAPPEN THAT WAY.

>> Onsurez: I THINK WE HAVE TO GO BACK TO WHAT DEDE SAID, WHICH IS THESE ARE PROCESSES THAT YOU THINK YOU KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN GOING IN, BUT THERE IS A LOT OF INSIDER PARLAY HAPPENING.

NO, I SAW REBECCA DOW YESTERDAY AND SHE WAS ALL SMILES AND HANDSHAKES, ENGAGING WITH PEOPLE AT A LUNCHEON HERE IN CARLSBAD.

SHE DIDN'T SEEM DISAPPOINTED OVERALL BY BEING SECOND, SECOND RUNNER UP IN THE PREPRIMARY CONVENTION, BUT I DO THINK THAT SHE WOULD SAY SHE WAS SURPRISED THAT BLOCK CAME OUT AHEAD OF HER.

YOU KNOW, SHE IS POPULAR.

SHE HAS GOT SOME NAME WEIGHT BEHIND HER.

I WOULDN'T COUNT HER OUT OVERALL JUST BECAUSE HE MANAGED TO WALK AWAY WITH 25% OR 27%, EXCUSE ME, OF THE DELEGATE VOTES.

>> Merritt: THERE ARE A LOT OF DELEGATES WHO DIDN'T VOTE BECAUSE IT PEOPLE BELIEVED THEY COULD VOTE BY EMAIL REMOTELY, THEY LEFT, AND THEN IT BECAME PAPER BALLOTS AND THEY HAD NO WAY TO VOTE.

SO THERE ARE A LOT OF LOST VOTES THERE.

THERE WERE PEOPLE WHO WEREN'T ABLE TO COME IN AND WERE NOT PRESENT BECAUSE THEY WERE TURNED AWAY IN THE MORNING.

DOW ONLY LOST BY SEVEN VOTES.

>> Gene: I'M GLAD YOU GOT THAT IN.

IT SEEMS TO ME WHAT YOU'RE SAYING -- IS THIS DISCREDITED NOW BECAUSE OF THAT.

SHOULD WE ALL BY MONDAY MORNING NOT EVEN TAKE WHAT HAPPENED AT CONVENTION -- >> Merritt: I THINK IT IS IRRELEVANT.

>> Dede: IT IS IRRELEVANT -- AND REALLY THE ONLY THING THAT THE CONVENTION DECIDES IS ORDER OF CANDIDATES AS THEY WILL APPEAR ON THE BALLOT.

EVEN THE MOST GENEROUS OF COMMENTATORS SAY THAT MEANS MAYBE AT MOST ACCOUNTS FOR 2% IF YOU'RE FIRST ON THE BALLOT AS OPPOSED TO SECOND ON THE BALLOT.

>> Gene: INTERESTING.

WHEN IT A CLOSE RACE, 2%.

INTERESTING.

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT.

WE'LL BE WARMING.

>> Merritt: I REALLY FEEL BAD FOR DELEGATES WHO TRAVELED TO RUIDOSO AND MADE THE EFFORT AND SPENT THE DAY, BECAUSE RUIDOSO IS NOT CLOSE TO A LOT OF THINGS, EVERYONE TRAVELED MADE AN EFFORT TO DO BECAUSE THEY WERE INVESTED IN THE PROCESS, NEARLY 800 DELEGATES, NOT ALL OF THEM GOT TO VOTE AND I THINK IT IS A REAL DISSERVICE TO THEM.

>> Gene: THAT IS A SHAME.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT.

WE'LL BE WATCHING THIS PRIMARY CAMPAIGN SEASON CLOSELY IN THE COMING WEEKS AND MONTHS.

IT HAS BEEN DECADES AND FOR SOME OF US LIFETIMES SINCE WE HAVE HAD TO CONTEMPLATE THE REALITY OF AN AUTHORITARIAN POWER INVADING A SOVEREIGN NATION.

THAT IS WHERE WE ARE NOW WITH RUSSIAN AND UKRAINE.

AS WE ALL STARTED TO FIGURE OUT WHERE U.S. AND NEW MEXICO FIT INTO ALL OF THIS, THE PEOPLE IN UKRAINE ARE FIGHTING TO STAY ALIVE.

EARLIER I GOT OPPORTUNITY TO TALK, THROUGH AN INTERPRETER, WITH THE UKRAINIAN PROFESSOR WHO IS SHELTERING RIGHT NOW JUST OUTSIDE OF THE CAPITOL OF KYIV.

WHERE IS OUR GUEST?

IS HE SAFE?

AND WHAT IS THE SITUATION FOR HIM CURRENTLY?

[TRANSLATING] >> Professor: FIGHTING ALL AROUND, TERRITORY KEEPS MOVING FROM RUSSIAN TO UKRAINIAN, BACK AND FORTH.

IT IS A CONSTANT FIGHTING ALL AROUND, INTENSE FIGHTING.

>> Gene: MY NEXT QUESTION IS, WHAT IS THE COMMUNICATION FOR HIM AT THIS POINT?

IS HE ABLE TO COMMUNICATE WITH FRIENDS AND FAMILY?

IS THERE INTERNET?

WHAT IS THE COMMUNICATION SITUATION?

[TRANSLATING] >> Professor: IT IS BETTER RIGHT NOW, THE LOCAL, YOU KNOW, TECHNICIANS HAVE GOTTEN BACK AND FIXED A LOT OF STUFF THAT THEY COULD DO, SO IT IS BETTER THAN IT WAS A FEW DAYS AGO.

YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THEY GO BACK AND FORTH ANYWAY AND THEN WE HAVE GOT -- BUT IN THE AREAS THAT ARE OCCUPIED BY THE RUSSIAN TROOPS, THAT IS BAD.

BUT THEY STILL CAN GET SOME TEXT MESSAGES ACROSS.

NOT GREAT, BUT THEY CAN DO IT.

>> Gene: IS OUR GUEST LOOKING TO GET OUT OF THE COUNTRY WITH HIS FAMILY, I AM WONDERING, OR STAY AND TRY AND SEE THIS THING THROUGH?

[TRANSLATING] >> Professor: THE GOAL IS TO STAY IN A FREE EUROPEAN-CONNECTED UKRAINE.

HE IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE RIGHT NOW.

HE HAS AN 80 YEAR OLD MOTHER, WIFE, NEIGHBORS AND THEIR KIDS, THEY ARE ALL WORKING TOGETHER, THEY ARE HELPING EACH OTHER, WATCHING EACH OTHER.

NOBODY IS GOING ANYPLACE.

>> Gene: JUST A COUPLE MORE QUESTIONS HERE.

IN MY MINDS EYE I CAN'T QUITE PICTURE WHERE THE RUSSIAN PUSH IS NORTHWEST OF KYIV.

I AM WORKING ON PROBABLY A WEEK OLD MAP HERE BUT IS THIS GOING TO GET WORSE IN THIS AREA HERE SOON?

WHAT IS THE PREDICTION FOR THIS PART OF THE COUNTRY?

>> Translator: I HAVE HEARD A LOT OF STORIES OUT OF BUCHA MYSELF, BUT LET'S GO ON.

[TRANSLATING] >> Professor: THEY ARE LOOKING FOR A BRIGHT FUTURE.

AND THE ONLY WAY TO GET THAT IS WITH AMMUNITION RIGHT NOW.

THEY JUST WANT TO FIGHT AND GET THOSE GUYS OUT OF THERE, THE ENEMY, AND THEY ARE JUST RESOLUTE.

THERE IS NO DISCUSSION.

THERE IS NO ARGUMENT, THERE IS NOTHING.

THEY ARE STAYING THERE, THEY JUST NEED THE ABILITY TO FEND OFF THE ATTACKERS.

>> Gene: LAST QUESTION FOR OUR GUEST AND, GEORGE, WE CAN'T THANK YOU ENOUGH FOR DOING THIS.

FROM OUR GUEST'S POINT OF VIEW, WHAT WOULD HE LIKE AMERICANS TO KNOW ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING IN UKRAINE RIGHT NOW AND WHAT IS THE BEST WAY AMERICANS COULD HELP AT THIS POINT?

[TRANSLATING] >> Professor: HE CIRCLED BACK AT THE END TO HOW THE WEST HELPED THE RED ARMY IN WORLD WAR II DEFEAT NAZI GERMANY, THROUGH OUR WEAPONS AND TANKS AND ALL THE STUFF THAT WE GAVE.

WHAT HE WANTS NOW AND HE FEELS ALL UKRAINE WANTS IS WE NEED TO CLOSE THE SKIES.

SO, THE RUSSIANS HAVE REALIZED THEY ARE NOT GOING TO WIN MILITARILY, SO WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS THEY ARE SEWING PANIC AND CONFUSION BY INDISCRIMINATE BOMBING OF CIVILIAN TARGETS IN ALL MAJOR CITIES.

SO, THEY ARE TAKING OUT ANYTHING THAT IS GOING TO DISORIENT, CREATE DOUBT AMONG THE CIVILIANS.

SO, THEY ARE MOSTLY WORRIED ABOUT AVIATION, YOU KNOW, FIGHTER JET STRIKES AND ROCKET STRIKES.

THAT IS WHAT IS GIVING THE MOST TROUBLE.

A LOT OF PEOPLE, KIDS, WOMEN AND ALL THAT, THE CIVILIANS ARE BLEEDING OUT FROM THE SHRAPNEL SO THEY REALLY NEEDED TOURNIQUETS AND THOSE KIND OF THINGS TO GET THEM THROUGH THE NIGHT.

BUT HE SAID SO WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS JUST HELP UKRAINE ECONOMICALLY BUT CLOSE THE SKIES TO BOMBARDMENT WHETHER IT IS MISSILE OR AVIATION.

THAT IS ALL THEY WANT RIGHT NOW AND THEN THEY'LL TAKE CARE OF THE GROUND FIGHT.

>> Gene: THE NO FLY ZONE.

>> Translator: THEY NEED PROTECTION FROM ABOVE.

>> Gene: THAT MAKES SENSE.

EVERYTHING WOULD CHANGE AT THAT POINT.

GEORGE, COULD YOU BE SO KIND TO PLEASE THANK OUR GUEST FROM ALL OF US HERE AT NEW MEXICO PBS AND AS AMERICAN CITIZENS LET HIM KNOW HE IS NOT ALONE HERE.

THERE ARE MANY, MANY AMERICANS I HATE TO BE INSULTING NOT SAYING PULLING FOR UKRAINE BUT WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ACTIVELY BEYOND WISHING AND HOPING AND HOPEFULLY IT WILL HAPPEN IN THE NEXT LITTLE BIT OF TIME THAT WE CAN HELP THE COUNTRY.

IT IS IMPORTANT.

IF UKRAINE GOES, EUROPE THE WHOLE THING.

YOU DON'T NEED TO TELL HIM ALL OF THIS, OF COURSE, JUST TELL HIM WE SAID, THANK YOU, WISH HIM GOOD LUCK AND GOOD PRAYER AND GOD SPEED.

IF THERE IS ANYTHING WE CAN HELP WITH HERE IN THE STATE, LET US KNOW SINCE WE HAVE HIS CONTACT.

>> Danilov: OF COURSE WE WANT TO HAVE A NO FLY ZONE.

IF IT IS POSSIBLE.

WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE IT.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS POSSIBLE.

>> Gene: THANKS AGAIN TO GEORGE KLAPISCHAK FROM THE UKRAINIAN AMERICANS OF NEW MEXICO FOR PUTTING US IN TOUCH WITH THE PROFESSOR.

WE'LL HEAR FROM THREE OTHER MEMBERS OF THAT ORGANIZATION IN A LITTLE OVER 10 MINUTES.

FOR NOW WE ARE TALKING HYDROGEN.

GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM HAS BEEN DETERMINED TO PUT NEW MEXICO ON THE MAP WHEN IT COMES TO HYDROGEN AND SHE DID IT AGAIN THIS WEEK.

NEW MEXICO IS NOW PART OF A FOUR-STATE COALITION, COLORADO, UTAH AND WYOMING.

THAT GROUP WILL LOBBY TOGETHER FOR PART OF AN EIGHT BILLION DOLLAR KITTY IN FEDERAL MONEY TABBED FOR HYDROGEN DEVELOPMENT.

IT COMES AFTER THE STATE LEGISLATURE FAILED TO PASS TAX INCENTIVES FOR HYDROGEN DEVELOPMENT AND STORAGE.

YOU MIGHT RECALL THAT.

DEDE, WHY IS GOVERNOR SO DETERMINED ON THIS ISSUE?

>> Dede: SHE HAS HER EYE ON THE EIGHT BILLION THAT ARE AVAILABLE THROUGH THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL COMING DOWN FROM WASHINGTON.

SHE SEEMS TO WANT TO OVERRULE THE LEGISLATURE WHICH KILLED NOT ONE, NOT TWO, NOT THREE, BUT FOUR DIFFERENT ATTEMPTS TO TABLE THIS INITIATIVE.

SO, SHE WANTS TO DO IT.

SO DOES PATRICIA LUNDSTROM, THE HEAD OF THE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE AND THE REPRESENTATIVE IN WHOSE DISTRICT THIS HYDROGEN HUB, IF IT COMES TO NEW MEXICO, WOULD BE LOCATED NEAR PREWITT, NEW MEXICO.

SO, IT IS DEFINITELY SKIRTING THE LEGISLATURE.

IT IS ALSO DOING IT IN SPITE OF THE UNIVERSAL OPPOSITION OF ENVIRONMENTALISTS, NATIONWIDE AND IN NEW MEXICO.

NEARLY 30 GROUPS CAME BEFORE THE LEGISLATURE AND SAID, YOU CAN'T PREVENT POLLUTION BY CREATING POLLUTION.

WHICH IS WHAT THEY SAY HYDROGEN DOES, BECAUSE IT UTILIZES NATURAL GAS AND IT THEN EMITS CARBON DIOXIDE IN THE PROCESS OF PRODUCING HYDROGEN.

SO, YOU KNOW, THE IDEA HERE, THE GOVERNOR'S PLAN IS THAT THIS WOULD UTILIZE SO-CALLED BLUE HYDROGEN WHICH IS A LITTLE BIT MORE ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY AND INVOLVES SEQUESTERING THE CARBON DIOXIDE UNDERGROUND.

WELL, THAT IS WELL AND GOOD BUT WE'RE NOT THERE YET, FOR SURE, BY ANY MEANS.

BUT, THEY ARE GOING AHEAD WITH THIS ANYWAY BY EXECUTIVE ORDER AND HOPING TO JOIN WITH THESE OTHER STATES, SUBMIT A PROPOSAL AND GET AROUND A BILLION DOLLARS.

>> Gene: CONSIDERING THE BACKLASH DEDE IS DESCRIBING QUITE WELL OVER NATURAL GAS CONSUMPTION DURING THE SESSION WE HEARD IT, IS THE GOVERNOR ALSO IGNORING PUBLIC OPINION BY MAKING THIS MOVE?

>> Onsurez: I AM NOT SURE THAT IS COMPLETELY ACCURATE.

I THINK THE PUBLIC ISN'T WELL SCHOOLED ON WHAT EXACTLY HYDROGEN FUEL IS AND HOW IT IS CREATED.

I THINK THAT WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN GIVEN TO THE PUBLIC ARE BOTH OF THESE EXTREMES.

WHICH IS, IT IS POLLUTION, POLLUTION CREATING -- SO IN ANY CONTROVERSIAL ISSUE WORDS ARE THE WAY TO SWAY ONE PERSON ONE WAY OR THE OTHER SO YOU SEE PEOPLE CALLING THIS CLEAN HYDROGEN, GREEN HYDROGEN AND THE OTHER CAMP, THEY ARE CALLING IT FOSSIL FUEL HYDROGEN.

I THINK THERE IS STILL A LOT TO BE SAID FOR EDUCATING THE PUBLIC ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE.

YOU TEND TO COUCH IT IN TERMS OF WE ARE LIMITING POLLUTION, WE ARE CREATING JOBS, THIS IS FROM THE GOVERNOR'S CAMP AND FROM THE EXTREME SIDE YOU SEE ENVIRONMENTALISTS AND THEIR ADVOCATES SAYING, ACTUALLY NO, YOU CAN'T SOLVE POLLUTION BY CREATING POLLUTION AND THEN I THINK I HAVE HEARD SOME ARGUMENT EVEN SAYING THIS IS ANOTHER WAY TO SUBSIDIZE FOSSIL FUEL OPERATORS IN NEW MEXICO.

>> Gene: THAT IS OUT THERE TOO.

MERRITT, THE IDEA, THE DECISION BY THE GOVERNOR, I AM CURIOUS YOUR OPINION.

HOW DOES IT IMPACT HER RELATIONSHIP WITH THE DEMOCRATIC LEADERSHIP IN THE LEGISLATURE SOON TO BE EX-HOUSE SPEAKER BRIAN EGOLF, TABLED SEVERAL BILLS HIMSELF.

WHERE DOES THAT PUT HER IN RELATION WITH DEMOCRATS RIGHT NOW?

>> Merritt: I CERTAINLY FEEL THAT AFTER REJECTING MUCH OF HER AGENDA, SHE TRIED TO MOVE TO THE CENTER AS SHE NEEDS TO FOR REELECTION.

ELECTIONS ARE DECIDED BY THE CENTERS.

IT IS CLEAR THAT SHE IS MOVING FORWARD AND THIS IS A STATE WHERE THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A STRONG EXECUTIVE AND RELATIVELY WEAK LEGISLATURE AND SHE IS FLEXING THAT MUSCLE AGAIN.

THIS IS A DECISION I APPLAUD.

I THINK THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN FAR TOO DISMISSIVE OF OUR EXTRACTIVE INDUSTRIES.

YOU KNOW.

LET'S REMEMBER THAT WE ARE AN OIL AND GAS AND COAL PRODUCING STATE THAT WAS, UP UNTIL JUST A WEEK OR SO AGO, FACING ROLLING BLACKOUTS THIS SUMMER BUS BECAUSE WE HAD NO BACKUP PLAN FOR THE CLOSURE OF THE SAN JUAN COAL FACILITY.

AS AN ENERGY STATE WITH A HISTORY IN ENERGY INNOVATION, LET'S REMEMBER THE MANHATTAN PROJECT HAPPENED HERE.

THIS IS HYDROGEN DEVELOPMENT AND RESEARCH THAT MAKES SENSE FOR US.

I THINK WE ALL KNOW THAT FOSSIL FUELS HAVE A LIMITED LIFE ON THIS PLANET.

INDUSTRY IS MOVING AWAY FROM IT, DETROIT IS MOVING AWAY FROM IT BUT IT IS NOT GOING TO END TOMORROW, NEXT WEEK OR NOT GOING TO END NEXT YEAR.

I THINK THIS IS A SMART MOVE FOR NEW MEXICO AND I THINK THE POLITICAL RAMIFICATIONS, THE GOVERNOR IS FAR LESS INTERESTED IN WHAT THE LEGISLATURE THINKS AND FAR MORE INTERESTED IN WHAT VOTERS THINK IN NOVEMBER.

>> Gene: PART OF THIS IDEA IS THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE THIS MOU IS THAT RESEARCH AND EVERYTHING WE TALK ABOUT HYDROGEN IS GOING TO BE WORKED ON THROUGH THESE OTHER STATES.

I AM CURIOUS, YOU KNOW, LOS ALAMOS, SANDIA ARE THEY IN THIS AT ALL?

IF I WAS THE GOVERNOR AND I WAS ROLLING THAT OUT, I WOULD HAVE THOSE CATS IN MY HIP POCKET GOING OUT THE DOOR WITH THIS THING HONESTLY.

DO THEY HAVE A PLAY HERE, SANDIA AND LOS ALAMOS?

>> Dede: I THINK THAT THE ENVIRONMENT DEPARTMENT HAS ALREADY SIGNED AN MOU WITH LOS ALAMOS TO STUDY HYDROGEN AND THE PRODUCTION OF HYDROGEN SO THERE IS A ROLE FOR THE NATIONAL LABS THERE AND I THINK THAT IT WILL TAKE YEARS, THOUGH, BEFORE THEY CAN ADEQUATELY STUDY THIS.

AND, MEANWHILE, I THINK THE RUSH IS ON FROM WHAT I AM READING FROM THE GOVERNOR TO START THIS PROCESS AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

AND AS MUCH AS WE HAVE THE LEGACY OF LOS ALAMOS, THE CREATION OF THE NUCLEAR WEAPONS, OUR INVOLVEMENT IN OIL AND GAS, WE ALSO HAVE THE LEGACY OF ABANDONED MINES OF URANIUM TAILING OF ALL OF THESE BYPRODUCTS OF BOTH OIL AND GAS AND THE NUCLEAR WEAPONS CYCLE.

AND IT IS USUALLY FELT MOST DEEPLY BY INDIGENOUS POPULATIONS AND PARTICULARLY AROUND THE GRANTS AND GALLUP AREA UP INTO ARIZONA AND NORTH WESTERN NEW MEXICO, THESE ARE THE FOLKS THAT ARE SAYING, YOU KNOW, WE SHOULDN'T HANG OUR HAT ON RESEARCH COMPLETELY BUT REMEMBER IT AFFECTS REAL PEOPLE ON THE GROUND.

>> Gene: GOOD POINT THERE.

>> Onsurez: JUST TO THE POINT THAT DEDE WAS MAKING AS FAR AS RESEARCH FOR THIS PARTICULAR FUEL, YOU KNOW, WE SPOKE TO THE GOVERNOR A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO AND I THINK WHAT PEOPLE ALSO NEED TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT THIS ISN'T SOMETHING THAT IS NEW THAT IS OUT OF LEFT FIELD.

OUR OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY HAS BEEN USING HYDROGEN FUEL IN CERTAIN OPERATIONS FOR A WHILE.

AND IN CERTAIN WAYS, THEY ARE LEADING THE CHARGE IN RESEARCH TO FIND WAYS TO MAKE THIS FISCALLY POSSIBLE, MORE ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY.

WHEN WE SPOKE TO THE GOVERNOR SHE WAS ADAMANT IN SAYING WE ALREADY HAVE AS NEW MEXICO AS A LEADING OIL AND GAS STATE WE HAVE RESOURCES IN PLACE THAT CAN HELP US SUCCEED AND EVEN GO PAST EXPECTATIONS WHEN IT COMES TO HYDROGEN.

>> Gene: I AM GLAD YOU GOT THAT IN, JESS, AND MERRITT KNOWS THIS, I GOT A CHANCE TO TALK WITH ENERGY SECRETARY GRANHOLM WHEN SHE WAS HEAR IN NEW MEXICO ON HER TOUR IN THIS PART OF THE COUNTRY TALKING ABOUT HYDROGEN.

THIS WAS THE EXACT POINT SHE WAS WAKING WHEN SHE WAS HERE.

YOUR POINT JUST MADE, THIS IS ALREADY IN PROCESS AND THE INDUSTRY FEELS THEY ARE GOING TO GET ON TOP OF THIS WAY QUICKER THAN ENVIRONMENTALISTS THINK THEY CAN.

ANYWAY, THANK YOU ALL.

WE'LL CHAT ONCE MORE WITH LINE PANELISTS IN 10 MINUTES.

FIRST, A PANEL DISCUSSION WITH THREE MEMBERS OF THE NONPROFIT GROUP, UKRAINIAN AMERICANS OF NEW MEXICO.

ALL THREE HAVE FAMILY IN UKRAINE RIGHT NOW AND ALL THREE HAVE UNIQUE PERSPECTIVES ON THE TRAGEDY PLAYING OUT IN THEIR HOME COUNTRY.

LARYSA, YOU ALSO HEARD OR ARE TRYING TO HEAR FROM FRIENDS AND FOLKS YOU KNOW IN UKRAINE.

HOW IS IT GOING FOR YOU TO BE IN COMMUNICATION WITH FOLKS?

LET'S START THERE.

>> Castillo: THE COMMUNICATION IS PRETTY WELL AT THIS TIME.

THERE IS SOME, YEAH, SOME TECHNICAL PROBLEMS BUT COMMUNICATION IS WELL.

I TALKED TO MY MOM.

SHE SAID THEY LOST TELEVISION OVER THERE BECAUSE THE BOMB HIT THE TV STATION, ALL THE ANTENNAS AND THEY CANNOT SEE ANY NEWS, BUT THEY CAN GET IT ON RADIO RIGHT NOW.

BUT, WE COMMUNICATE THROUGH FIBER USING INTERNET DATA THAT WORKS, SO THAT WORKS AND THAT IS REALLY HELPING.

MY MOM JUST HEARS.

SHE IS IN A CITY WHICH IS ABOUT 20 MILES AWAY FROM KYIV AND THE BOMBING AND SHE HEARS EVERYTHING.

IT IS GOES HERE AND THERE.

IT IS VERY LOUD.

WHEN I TALK TO HER, I SEE HER GOING DOWN, TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, THAT REFLEX HUMANS HAVE WHEN YOU HEAR BOMBS HITTING THE GROUND.

>> Gene: NATALIYA, TELL US ABOUT YOUR FAMILY SITUATION AND HOW YOU ARE ABLE TO CONTACT FOLKS IN UKRAINE.

IS IT DIFFICULT?

ARE YOU HEARING FROM PEOPLE YOU WANT TO HEAR FROM AT THIS POINT.

>> Edelman: YEAH.

WE HAVE ACTUALLY DIFFICULT SITUATION.

MY RELATIVES AND FRIENDS RIGHT NOW IN KYIV AND CHERNIHIV.

WE HEAR LITTLE SOUNDS, 10 MILES FROM KYIV AND RUSSIAN TROOPS LAST NIGHT THEY BOMBED THEM FOR EIGHT HOURS.

I LOST CONNECTION.

AND WE, OF COURSE, CANNOT COMMUNICATE WITH THEM ON FIBER, IS ONLY THING, BUT I LOST COMMUNICATION WITH THEM FOR A DAY AND I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM.

MY FRIEND SENT ME PICTURE, THEY ACTUALLY LIKE A TAPE, LIKE MESSAGES ON FIBER BECAUSE WE HAVE A GROUP IN OUR BUILDING AND I SEE THAT THEY TALK AND THEY SAY, WHAT IS WRONG, WHAT CAN YOU DO, THERE IS A BOMB HERE, AND OTHER PEOPLE SAY, NO, YOU HAVE TO STAY TO HOME BECAUSE WE COULDN'T GO OUT AND PEOPLE SOME SAY MY KID IS CRYING, I DON'T KNOW WHERE I SHOULD HIDE THEM.

IT IS ALL REALLY, REALLY SAD AND DIFFICULT BECAUSE BUCHA IS A VERY BEAUTIFUL CITY.

AND THEY DESTROYED THE CITY COMPLETELY.

IT IS VERY SAD TO SEE THOSE PICTURES.

>> Gene: THE IDEA, I AM THINKING ABOUT THE STATE OF THE UNION SPEECH LAST NIGHT FROM PRESIDENT BIDEN AND JUST A REAL SIMPLE QUESTION TO START THIS OFF, WERE YOU SATISFIED WITH THE PRESIDENT'S RESPONSE DURING THE STATE OF THE UNION SPEECH LAST NIGHT?

>> Danilov: I AM EMBARRASSED TO SAY, THESE ARE THE THINGS I ALWAYS FOLLOW BUT NOT THIS MOMENT BECAUSE IF YOU CAN JUST POINT OUT WHAT WERE THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS I WOULD BE ABLE TO RESPOND.

>> Gene: LET ME KICK THAT NO LARYSA AND KIND OF COME BACK.

HE DID TALK ABOUT UKRAINE, VERY TOUGH ON PUTIN, BUT TALKED A LOT ABOUT SANCTIONS.

THAT WAS ABOUT IT.

WERE YOU SATISFIED?

>> Castillo: I KNOW MOST OF THE WORLD AND BIDEN TRYING TO ISOLATE PUTIN FINANCIALLY.

THAT MEANS A LOT BUT IT IS NOT ENOUGH.

WE NEED MORE.

WE NEED PHYSICAL HELP, NOT THE FIGHTING, BUT AT LEAST BRING IN EQUIPMENT TANKS, WHATEVER, AIRPLANES, IN FASTER.

BECAUSE, IT IS WAY TOO SLOW.

THEY DON'T GET ENOUGH.

THEY DON'T GET ENOUGH.

AND THEY NEED BULLET PROOF VESTS, THEY NEED PROTECTION SO THEY CAN FIGHT, NOT DIE OVER THERE.

>> Gene: YOU MIGHT RECALL LAST WEEK THE PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE SAID, I DON'T NEED A LIFT, I NEED ARMS.

I DON'T NEED A RIDE OUT OF HERE.

I AM STAYING.

SO, AGAIN, I GUESS WE ARE LEADING UP TO AN OBVIOUS QUESTION HERE.

ALLIES OF UKRAINE, ALLIES OF NATO, NATO MEMBERS, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE, IS THERE A STEP YOU PERSONALLY WOULD LIKE TO SEE ALL THESE ENTITIES TAKE IN THIS SITUATION HERE SOON?

>> Danilov: IT IS A TOUGH ONE BECAUSE WE ABSOLUTELY UKRAINE SUFFERS FROM THIS BOMBARDMENT IN A LOT OF POLITICAL SITUATIONS BUT ON THE GROUND OUR FORCES ARE REALLY HOLDING BACK THIS HUGE ARMY AND THEY ARE DOING A GREAT JOB BUT THE PROTECTION FROM THE SKY IS WHAT HURTS THE CIVILIANS AND HURTS THE ARMY MORE, I MEAN, YEAH.

IT IS HORRENDOUS.

IT IS ACTUAL WAR CRIMES, WHAT WE ARE SEEING.

WE WANT TO HAVE A NO FLY ZONE BUT WE UNDERSTAND THAT MEANS DIRECT MILITARY CONFRONTATION WITH RUSSIA WHICH IS EVERYBODY IS TRYING TO AVOID.

SO, IT IS A TOUGH ONE.

WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE IT.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS POSSIBLE.

>> Gene: THE ORGANIZATION, THERE WAS SOME -- LARYSA MENTIONED IN SANTA FE THERE WERE PROTESTS.

TELL US WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THE PAST FEW DAYS AND IF THERE ARE OTHER PROTESTS PLANNED FOR THE NEW MEXICO AREA WE SHOULD BE AWARE OF.

>> Edelman: OKAY, WE ALREADY START DEMONSTRATIONS ONE MONTH AGO.

WE KNEW PUTIN WERE GOING INTO UKRAINE.

I TOLD MY FRIENDS PLEASE, BUT THEY DIDN'T BELIEVE IT.

THEY SAY, NO, NO, IT COULDN'T HAPPEN, NO, NO.

I SAY, PLEASE DO SOMETHING NOW.

AND WE ALREADY HAVE LIKE FOUR DEMONSTRATIONS.

THE FIRST ONE JANUARY 13, I THINK, YES.

AND WE HAD THREE MORE DEMONSTRATIONS.

SO NOW WE TRIED TO SEND A LETTER TO CONGRESSMEN, TO, YOU KNOW, TO HAVE LIKE, TO GET SOME INFORMATION BECAUSE WE WOULD NOT -- GOT A CONNECTION AND WE SAW RED CROSS AND WE WANT TO BE READY WHEN THE REFUGEES COME TO NEW MEXICO.

WE JUST TRIED TO ORGANIZE, YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING THAT THE CONNECTIONS, RENT STORAGES, LOOKING FOR CHURCHES WHO CAN HELP OUT AND WHAT KIND OF CHURCHES BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, ACTUALLY THE RUSSIAN CHURCH IN SANTA FE, THEY SAY WE WILL HELP YOU, YOU KNOW, WE WERE LIKE, WOW.

>> Gene: ANY LAST THOUGHTS?

I WANT TO LET YOU GET BACK TO WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

WHAT DO AMERICANS NEED TO KNOW OR ALBUQUERQUIANS OR NEW MEXICANS, WHAT DO WE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT UKRAINE AT THIS POINT?

IS THERE SOMETHING MISSING THAT BOTHERS YOU ABOUT THE UNDERSTANDING OF YOUR COUNTRY THAT YOU WANT FOLKS TO KNOW?

>> Danilov: IT IS AGAIN A BIG ONE TO ATTACK BUT SOMETHING TO BE AWARE IS, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT THIS WAR IS THE OLD MISINFORMATION WAR AND THERE IS STILL QUITE A BIT OF MISINFORMATION FLOATING AROUND IN THE WEST AND EVEN BIG MEDIA REPORTS AND SOMETIMES THE PICTURE IS DISTORTED.

WE HAVE A LOT OF DOOMSDAY SCENARIO.

EVERYTHING IS GOING TO FOLD.

KYIV IS GOING TO FOLD IN TWO DAYS AND WHAT I WANT TO SAY IS JUST THAT IT IS GOOD TO BE AWARE THAT THERE IS A COMPLICATED SITUATION TO GET YOUR OWN SENSE OUT OF IT AND IF POSSIBLE, FIND UKRAINIAN SOURCES WHO ARE ON THE GROUND WHO ARE DOING ROBUST FACT CHECKS.

FIND UKRAINIANS WHO REPORT IN ENGLISH AND YOU CAN GET A BETTER PICTURE OF ACTUALLY WHAT IS GOING ON.

>> Gene: LARYSA, YOU HAVE A UNIQUE POSITION, YOU WERE THERE IN THE MEDICAL FIELD AND IN THE MEDICAL FIELD HERE AS A NURSE.

I AM INTERESTED IN YOUR PERSPECTIVE.

WHAT DON'T WE KNOW HERE IN THE STATES ABOUT UKRAINE THAT WE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT.

WHAT IS MISSING?

>> Castillo: ABOUT UKRAINE?

IT IS A LOT.

BECAUSE IT IS COMPLICATED HISTORY WHERE UKRAINE WERE UNDER RUSSIAN JURISDICTION FOR A LONG TIME AND IN 19TH CENTURY, UKRAINIAN PEOPLE WERE PHYSICALLY SLAVED OF RUSSIAN NOBLES AND THE DREAM OF UKRAINIAN PEOPLE WAS ALWAYS TO BE FREE AND WHEN SOVIET UNION BROKE OFF AND THAT UNIQUE CHANCE BECAME OUR OPPORTUNITY.

AND WE WERE FREE FOR 30 YEARS AND NOW WE GOT A TASTE OF IT AND NO ONE CAN TAKE IT AWAY.

THAT IS WHY OUR PEOPLE ARE FIGHTING TO THE LAST BREATH, TO THE LAST DROP OF THEIR BLOOD.

AND THEY ARE GOING TO STAND FOR THEIR COUNTRY BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY WANT THEIR FREEDOM.

THEY DON'T WANT TO BE PUPPET OF RUSSIA.

HE THEY DON'T WANT TO BE COLONIAL.

THEY DON'T WANT TO BE -- YEAH, THEY DON'T WANT TO BE -- I MEAN, THE WORLD DIDN'T STOP, IT MOVES ON.

WE HAVE BEEN FREE.

YOU CAN'T JUST COME AND TELL US, HEY, REMEMBER THAT TIME, I WANT YOU BACK.

NO.

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE.

HISTORY GROWN BY PEOPLE WHO IS LIVING IN THEIR COUNTRY.

HE IS STILL READING BY THESE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE, THEY LOVE THEIR COUNTRY.

THEY DON'T WANT TO GIVE IT UP.

PUTIN CAN DO WHATEVER CRIMES HE IS ABLE, I KNOW, HE IS SENDING VACUUM BOMBS.

HE IS DROPPING THOSE WHAT YOU CALL THEM CLUSTER BOMBS, CLUSTER BOMBS, THEY ARE DIRECTED FOR CIVILIANS.

THEY SENDING THEM AROUND THE HOSPITALS, AROUND THE KINDERGARTENS.

A LOT OF KIDS GET KILLED BECAUSE OF THE CLUSTER BOMBS BECAUSE THEY EXPLODE, IT SHOOTS SMALL BOMBS EVERYWHERE.

THAT IS WHAT HE DOES.

HE HAS TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR HIS CRIMES.

THOSE WEAPONS ARE PROHIBITED.

IT IS BANNED AND HE IS DOING IT.

SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE.

HE IS NOT GOING TO TURN HISTORY BACK.

HISTORY IS MOVING FORWARD.

AND WE ARE FREE AND WE WANT TO BE FREE.

>> Gene: I CAN'T THANK YOU ENOUGH FOR YOUR TIME.

I KNOW THIS IS A VERY DIFFICULT SITUATION, GEORGE DANILOV, LARYSA CASTILLO AND NATALIYA PAVLENKO-EDELMAN, SHE IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE UKRAINIAN AMERICANS OF NEW MEXICO AND YOU TWO ARE MEMBERS AS WELL.

THANK YOU AGAIN TO OUR GUESTS FROM THE UKRAINIAN AMERICANS OF NEW MEXICO.

WE TOUCHED ON A FEW MORE ISSUES DURING OUR 20 MINUTE PLUS DISCUSSION ABOUT THE INVASION AND OUR RESPONSE TO IT.

YOU CAN WATCH THAT FULL INTERVIEW ON OUR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS FACEBOOK AND YOUTUBE PAGES.

NOW, LET'S WELCOME BACK THE LINE OPINION PANEL, BACK ONE FINAL TIME TO DISCUSS AN ISSUE THAT HAS BEEN FLOWN A BIT UNDER THE RADAR ACCORDING TO DATA OBTAINED BY SEARCHLIGHT NEW MEXICO.

THE STATE MISTAKENLY PAID OUT $106 MILLION IN PANDEMIC UNEMPLOYMENT AID OR PUA AS IT IS KNOWN AND NOW IT IS DEMANDING THAT MONEY BACK FROM THE CITIZENS WHO UNKNOWINGLY RECEIVED IT.

IS THAT FAIR?

HOW COULD SUCH A MAJOR ERROR HAPPEN?

LET ME THROW THAT FIRST TO DEDE FELDMAN.

HOW COULD IT HAPPEN AND WHY ARE WE ASKING FOR MONEY BACK?

>> Dede: IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF WORKFORCE SOLUTIONS HAS BEEN OVERWHELMED BY CLAIMS DURING THE PANDEMIC AND ALSO NEW FUNDS COMING TO THE STATE THROUGH VARIOUS FEDERAL -- THROUGH THE CARES ACT, FOR EXAMPLE, AND OTHER FUNDS.

BUT, REALLY, THIS SEEMS QUITE INCOMPETENT, IN MY VIEW.

REALLY A TERRIBLE INJUSTICE THAT THEY ARE NOW ASKING PEOPLE TO PAY BACK MONEY THAT WAS SENT TO THEM BY THEIR OWN ERROR.

I MEAN, IT IS THE DEPARTMENT OF WORKFORCE SOLUTION THAT CALCULATES HOW MUCH PEOPLE ARE DUE IN UNEMPLOYMENT.

INDIVIDUALS DON'T CALCULATE THAT THEMSELVES AND FIGURE OUT WHETHER THEY ARE OVERPAID OR UNDERPAID AND THEN TO BE SUDDENLY FACED WITH A 13,000 DOLLAR BILL -- I MEAN IT IS AN OUTRAGE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF WORKFORCE SOLUTIONS, I THINK, AND PEOPLE, I THINK, ARE JUSTIFIABLY MAD ABOUT THEN HAVING THIS MONEY THAT THEY SUPPOSEDLY OWE DEDUCTED FROM FUTURE CHECKS THAT THEY ARE DUE.

YOU KNOW IT IS ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT IS GOING TO MAKE PEOPLE HATE GOVERNMENT EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE THE RECIPIENT OF FUNDS FROM THE GOVERNMENT.

THEY ARE NOW GOING TO BE LEFT WITH A VERY SOUR TASTE IN THEIR MOUTHS.

>> Gene: JESS, I KNOW YOU KNOW THIS, IT'S NOT NEWS TO YOU, BUT THE DEPARTMENT OF WORKFORCE SOLUTIONS, THEIR OWN NUMBERS SHOWN 17,136 PEOPLE, NEARLY 20% OF PUA PAYMENTS RECIPIENTS, HAVE FILED WAIVERS ASKING TO BE EXCUSED FROM PAYING BACK THE MONEY.

OVER 17,000 PEOPLE.

>> Onsurez: WHEN I FIRST READ THIS SEARCHLIGHT IT BLEW MY MIND.

I WILL SAY THIS ABOUT THAT PARTICULAR PIECE OF REPORTING.

THE ORIGINAL NUMBER FOR OVERPAYMENT WAS SOMEWHERE CLOSE TO 240 MILLION NOT THE 106 THEY CORRECTED IT TO.

EVEN THEN IT SEEMED REALLY EXTREME AND NOW EVEN WITH 106 MILLION IT IS A CRAZY NUMBER.

BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT REAL PEOPLE HERE, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT REAL PEOPLE WITH FAMILIES AND THIS IS GOING TO AFFECT THEM GREATLY.

THE LAST REPORT I READ SAID SOMETHING LIKE 14,000 PEOPLE ARE WAITING FOR WAIVERS TO BE EXEMPTED FROM REPAYING THIS AND IT IS DRAGGING ON.

>> Gene: THAT IS WILD.

MERRITT, THE SAME ISSUE IS PLAYING OUT IN ARIZONA, MICHIGAN, NEW JERSEY, CONNECTICUT LOTS OF OTHER STATES, YOU KNOW, SHOULD SOME OF THE BLAME FALL ON THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR FAILING TO BE SPECIFIC ENOUGH WITH THE CRITERIA FOR PUA MONEY?

>> Merritt: ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK THAT THE ROOT CAUSE OF THIS, THERE IS SO MUCH MONEY OUT THERE.

IT IS A RIDICULOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY OUT THERE THAT WENT TO STATES, FLOODING AID, IT STARTED WITH THE LAST AND CONTINUED WITH THIS ADMINISTRATION.

NEW MEXICO IS ACTUALLY ONE OF SLOWEST STATES.

WE COULDN'T EVEN FIGURE OUT HOW TO SPEND ALL THIS MONEY.

THAT SHOULD TELL YOU SOMETHING.

THE SITUATION IS ALMOST LUDICROUS.

WE ARE PRINTING MONEY OR JUST MANUFACTURING IT ELECTRONICALLY, I GUESS, YOU COULD ALMOST SAY.

SO, THE NOTION OF GOING DOWN TO THE LOWEST LEVEL HOUSEHOLDS WHERE IT MATTERS WHERE THIS IS KEEPING PEOPLE OUT OF POVERTY AND FEEDING THEIR FAMILIES, TO CLAW IT BACK FROM THEM WHEN WE ARE A STATE THAT YOU COULDN'T EVEN FIGURE OUT WHO WAS GOING TO SPEND THE MONEY, WHETHER THE GOVERNOR OR THE LEGISLATURE AND THAT WHOLE FIGHT AND PAYING LAWYERS TO WORK THAT OUT IN FRONT OF SUPREME COURT, TO CLAW IT BACK FROM INDIVIDUAL HOUSEHOLDS TO ME, THAT IS JUST MEAN.

THAT IS JUST ME.

>> Gene: I DON'T THINK I IT JUST YOU.

INTERESTING, RHODE ISLAND, AS YOU KNOW, IS WAIVING ALL OVERPAYMENTS SAYING THE MONEY IS, QUOTE, LONG GONE.

YOU KNOW.

OUR STATE RIGHT NOW MORE THAN 2,000 WAIVER REQUESTS HAVE BEEN DENIED.

WHERE ARE WE HEADED ON THIS?

>> Dede: HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?

I THINK CLEARLY NEW MEXICO OUGHT TO JUST GIVE A BLANKET WAIVER AS A RESULT OF THESE OVERPAYMENTS PARTICULARLY SINCE WE ARE, IF NOT THE POOREST STATE OR THE LOWEST INCOME STATE, AT LEAST IN THE TOP THREE OF THE LOWEST INCOME STATES AND, YES, THERE IS A LOT OF MONEY, BUT YES, THERE IS A LOT OF UNEMPLOYMENT AND THERE IS A LOT OF NEED IN NEW MEXICO AS WELL.

SO, ALL THE MORE REASON FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF WORKFORCE SOLUTIONS TO ENACT A BLANKET WAIVER AND THEN ENACT FOR THE PUBLIC AN ACCOUNTING OF WHERE THIS MONEY WENT TO AND WHAT THEY ARE DOING WITH IT.

>> Gene: MERRITT, I AM SO FRUSTRATED WITH THIS TOPIC BECAUSE WHY AREN'T WE -- AS DEDE SAID, WE ARE FLUSH RIGHT NOW.

WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE INSIDE WORKFORCE SOLUTIONS TURNING DOWN THESE WAIVER REQUESTS?

THAT IS WHAT I WANT TO KNOW RIGHT OFF THE TOP.

WHAT IS THE CRITERIA?

HOW DO THEY DECIDE WHO GETS ONE?

WHO DECIDES WHO DOESN'T GET ONE?

WE DON'T KNOW ANY OF THAT AT THIS POINT.

>> Merritt: THERE IS VERY LITTLE TRANSPARENCY ON THIS.

MY QUESTION IS WHAT IS THE STATE GOING TO DO WITH THE MONEY.

AGAIN, WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO FIGURE OUT THE DELUGE OF FEDERAL FUNDS WE HAVE GOTTEN.

WHAT SUBSTANTIVE PURPOSE ARE WE GOING TO PUT THESE FUNDS TO?

AGAIN, I THINK A BLANKET WAIVER, THE FUNDS ARE GONE.

>> Gene: UH-HUH.

>> Merritt: WE SAW THIS IN CONGRESS WITH PAYCHECK PROTECTION PROGRAM, TWO CEREAL BOX TOPS AND AN APPLICATION PUT OUT IN CRAYON AND YOUR PAYCHECK PROTECTION WAIVER PROGRAM GOT APPROVED.

I THINK NEW MEXICO COULD EASILY DO THAT HERE.

>> Gene: IN A POOR STATE WHERE MONEY IS A VERY TRICKY THING, IF WORKFORCE SOLUTIONS WANTS TO TAKE IT TO IT NATURAL EXTENT AND ISSUING WARRANTS AND BRINGING PEOPLE TO COURT TO GET THIS MONEY BACK, I SAY GOOD LUCK TO THEM.

>> Dede: THEY DON'T HAVE TO.

THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT.

ALL THEY DO IS DEDUCT IT FROM FUTURE UNEMPLOYMENT CHECKS, SO THEY STILL HAVE THE UPPER HAND.

THEY DON'T HAVE TO TAKE AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS JUST WITHHOLD THE MONEY.

THE DEPARTMENT OF WORKFORCE SOLUTIONS BEARS SOME CHECKING.

THEY HAVE AN ACTING SECRETARY AND HAVE HAD AN ACTING SECRETARY SINCE THEIR PREVIOUS SECRETARY BILL MCCAMLEY LEFT THE STATE, NOT JUST LEFT THE JOB, BUT LEFT THE STATE VERY PREMATURELY.

SO, I THINK THIS BEARS SOME FURTHER INVESTIGATION AND I REALLY APPLAUD SEARCHLIGHT NEW MEXICO.

>> Gene: YEAH, THUMBS UP TO THEM, THANK YOU FOR MENTIONING THEM.

THANKS AGAIN TO OUR LINE PANEL.

AMAZING AS ALWAYS THIS WEEK.

BE SURE TO GET LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ANY OF THE TOPICS.

WE HAD A LOT OF THEM.

YOU CAN COMMENT ON FACEBOOK, TWITTER OR OUR INSTAGRAM PAGE.

MY THANKS TO ALL UKRAINIAN AMERICANS OF NEW MEXICO.

AGAIN WE'LL HAVE THE LINKS FOR WAYS YOU CAN HELP AT OUR WEB PAGE, NEWMEXICOPBS.ORG.

IT'S BEEN A BUSY FEW WEEKS LOCALLY IN THE NEWS.

THERE IS SOMETHING I WOULD LIKE TO NOTE FROM THE PAST AND THAT IS THE CONTINUING AND SEEMINGLY GROWING PROBLEM OF STREET RACING IN OUR COUNTY.

THE NEWS OF THAT SCHOOL BUS BEING TURNED OVER AFTER BEING CRASHED INTO BY SOMEONE IN A STREET RACE WAS SHOCKING AND THERE SEEMS TO BE NO END TO IT.

NOW, IT IS NO SECRET STREET RACING SURGED ACROSS THE COUNTRY DURING THE PANDEMIC.

OUR CITY INCLUDED.

SPEEDING BEING UP OVERALL IN THE CITY, APD HAS A NEW TICKETING SCHEME WHICH WILL DO A WONDERFUL JOB AT SLOWING THE THOUGHTLESS AND THE HABITUAL DAILY COMMUTER SPEEDER, BUT THAT IS NO DETERRENT TO SOMEONE WILLING TO GO OVER 100 MILES AN HOUR IN A RESIDENTIAL ZONE.

SINCE WE CAN'T HAVE CRUISERS AND SPEED VANS AT EVERY INTERSECTION, I WONDER IF A NEW APPROACH TO CITY-OWNED CAMERAS WOULD HELP HERE, A LOT OF THEM IN WELL-KNOWN HOT ZONES LIKE MONTGOMERY.

THIS IS NOT A NEW IDEA.

IT HAS BEEN GOING ON ACROSS THE COUNTRY TO COMBAT STREET RACING.

THE IDEA IS SIMPLE, THERE IS A NEW ERA OF TECH WITH CAMERAS THAT CAN QUITE EASILY TAG EVERY PARTICIPANT IN A STREET RACE.

IT'S BY NO MEANS A SILVER BULLET BUT AT SOME POINT WE HAVE TO ADMIT A MAN POWER CEILING AND LOOK TO FILL A GAP.

THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US AND FOR STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK IN FOCUS.