THIS WEEK ON TO THE CONTRARY.•• FIRST, COULD REPUBLICAN WOMEN SENATORS DECIDE THE FUTURE OF HEALTHCARE?

THEN, A NEW REPORT FINDS MILLENNIAL WOMEN LOSING GROUND COMPARED TO THEIR TRAILBLAZING MOMS.

BEHIND THE HEADLINES; CRUNK FEMINISM.

HELLO, I'M BONNIE ERBE.

WELCOME TO TO THE CONTRARY, A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

UP FIRST, WOMEN AND HEALTHCARE.

THE SENATE'S HEALTHCARE BILL APPEARS JEOPARDIZED BY OPPOSITION FROM A NUMBER OF SENATORS.

AND THERE ARE THREE FEMALE GOP SENATORS WHO WILL HELP DECIDE THE FUTURE OF HEALTHCARE.

THEY'RE SUSAN COLLINS OF MAINE, LISA MURKOWSKI OF ALASKA AND WEST VIRGINIA'S SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO.

REPUBLICANS CAN ONLY LOSE TWO GOP VOTES AND STILL PASS THE LEGISLATION.

PROTESTORS DEMONSTRATED AT THE CAPITOL THIS WEEK AGAINST MAJOR CUTS IN FUNDING THAT EXPAND MEDICAID TO MILLIONS MORE LOW-INCOME AMERICANS.

THE SENATE BILL OFFERS STATES THE ABILITY TO DROP BENEFITS LIKE MATERNITY LEAVE.

THE BILL ALSO DEFUNDS PLANNED PARENTHOOD FOR A YEAR AND CUTS FUNDING FOR DRUG ADDICTION.

IT DOES ALLOW PARENTS TO KEEP CHILDREN ON THEIR HEALTHCARE PLANS UNTIL THEY ARE 26.

IT CONTINUES TO PROTECT PEOPLE WITH PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS.

PRESIDENT TRUMP WANTS MORE CHANGES TO THE BILL.

>> CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON WILL THE WOMEN OF THE U.S. SENATE DEFINE THE FUTURE OF HEALTHCARE.

>> WELL, WOMEN WERE BARRED FROM -- WHY WOMEN WERE BARRED FROM THE ROOM WHERE THE MEN WROTE THE BILL?

WHAT SWEET REVENGE WILL COME IN THE VOTE >> YES, YES, AND YES.

SHELLY AND SUSAN COLLINS ARE THE GAME CHANGERS.

CAPITO MADE IT INTO THE DISCUSSION BEFORE.

I THINK THEY WILL CHANGE IT.

>> FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE SENATE REPUBLICANS I THINK THE WOMEN SHOULD.

>> I AGREE WITH THE LADIES.

ISSUES LIKE THE OPIOID CRISIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE WOMEN WILL PUSH FOR.

>> CHANGE IT AND YOU CHANGE ONE PART OF THE BILL AND THEN YOU GOT YOUR CONSERVATIVES ON THE OTHER SIDE WHO ARE GOING TO REBELL AND IT'S INTERESTING THEY HAVE TAKEN THE LEADERSHIP, THE THREE OR FOUR MEN THREE MEN SAYING THEY ARE NOT GOING TO VOTE FOR THE BILL.

WHICH MEANS THEY ARE LAYING A STAKE IN THE GROUND MAKE IT MUCH HARDER FOR THE WOMEN.

>> SAME WITH THE HOUSE BILL, TOO.

>> MAKE IT HARDER FOR THE WOMEN BECAUSE NOW THEY ARE ON THE DEFENSIVE.

THEY ARE HAVING TO GO UP AGAINST MEN WHO LAID THEIR STAKE IN THE GROUND AND VERY HARD ONE I MAY SAY.

>> WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH ALL THAT?

THE MEN, THE CONSERVATIVES OBVIOUSLY WANT TO CUT MEDICAID FUNDING AND DROP PUT PROVISIONS IN THAT WILL PUSH POOR AND WORKING PEOPLE OFF OF HEALTHCARE AS THAT -- WHO HAVE RECEIVED IT UNDER OBAMACARE.

WHAT -- BUT THE WOMEN OBVIOUSLY WANT A KINDER AS THEY PUT IT BILL, RIGHT?

>> THERE IS NOT A SECTION OF THE BILL WHERE THE WOMEN DO NOT HAVE DISAGREEMENTS.

SOME YOU COULD PULL IN AND STILL HAVE THE BILL STANDING.

BUT LET'S TAKE MEDICAID EXPANSION.

WHAT IS SHELLY GOING TO DO ABOUT THAT?

SHE COMES FROM ONE OF THE POOREST STATES IN THE JN R UNION AND HAD A DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR SHE WOULD BE PERMANENTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THROWING OFF HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE.

AND ON TOP OF THAT AND YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THIS BILL IS.

THIS IS A THIS BILL -- >> THE SENATE DPRAFT.

>> THE SENATE DRAFT AND A HOUSE BILL IT IS A TAX CUT BILL IT IS NOT A HEALTHCARE BILL.

IT UTS CAN ALL OF THE OBAMA TAXES THAT MAY THE BILL GO AND THEY WANT TO PUT IT INTO THE TAX REFORM WHICH IS NEXT UP.

>> IS IT ACCURATE AS I SAW ONE SENATE REPUBLICAN SAY ON TV THIS WEEK THAT UNDER OBAMACARE EVERY AMERICAN FAMILY'S TAXES WENT UP BY $5,000?

>> I NEVER HEARD THAT.

>> PREMIUMS WENT UP $5,000?

>> IT'S BEEN UNEVEN I WOULD BE THE FIRST TO SAY THAT DEMOCRATS ARE THE FIRST TO SAY COME TO THE TABLE.

WHEN YOU DO A STRUCTURAL CHANGE LIKE THIS, YOU HAVE GOT TO WORK ON IT EVERY YEAR UNTIL YOU GET IT RIGHT.

ON THE CONTRARY, THEY ARE SABOTAGING THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT AND THEY ARE DOING IT ON PURPOSE.

>> FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND IT'S TALKING ABOUT MAKING CHANGES ON A REGULAR BASIS THIS IS JUST STEP ONE OF REPEAL.

AND THEN YOU WILL HAVE DIFFERENT REGULATORY CHANGES THAT WILL COME IN THE FUTURE.

TO GET BACK TO THE POINT ABOUT THE -- >> WHAT HAPPENS INBETWEEN?

>> STEP ONE REPEAL THERE IS NOTHING LEFT AFTER REPEAL OF THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT.

>> WELL, THERE ARE GOING TO BE CHANGES SOME WHICH WILL BE IMPLEMENTED IN 2018, AND 19 AND UP TO 2024.

THERE'S SCARE TACTICS GOING ON AS OF TOMORROW AS SOON AS THE PASSAGE OF THIS BILL OCCURS PEOPLE WILL BE THROWN OFF MEDICARE AND MEDICAID AND THAT IS NOT THE CASE.

>> WE'LL HURT YOU BUT IT WILL TAKE US FOUR YEARS TO HURT YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> WHEN IT COMES TO MEDICAID EXPANSION TWO-THIRDS PEOPLE WERE ELIGIBLE FOR IT.

SO THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO BE AFFECTED.

>> OF COURSE, BECAUSE THEY ARE CUTTING MEDICAID TO SMITHEREENS.

>> AND THAT IS IN A NUMBER OF YEARS FROM NOW.

>> THIS IS AN OUTRAGE.

>> AND PART IS INSURING THIS IS TARGETED AS A PROGRAM TO THE PEOPLE WHO NEED IT MOST.

WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE.

>> WHO ARE THOSE?

WHO ARE THOSE THAT ARE GOING TO BENEFIT THEY ARE NEEDING IT MOST?

NAME THEM?

>> FOR PARTICULARLY POOR PEOPLE WHO CANNOT AFFORD TO GET SECURE THEIR OWN HEALTHCARE.

WHAT THE BILL TRIES TO DO IS RESTORE POWER TO THE INDIVIDUAL FAMILY TO BE ABLE TO PUT MONEY ASIDE THROUGH THE HSA'S, CUTTING TAXES ON THE ABILITY -- >> HEALTH SAVINGS ACCOUNTS.

HEALTH SAVING ACCOUNTS WHEN YOU HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO PUT IN AND TO -- >> ON TOP OF THE DECREASE IN PREMIUMS OUT OF POCKET COSTS THAT HAVE REISEN.

AND WHAT OBAMACARE IS COLLAPSING ON ITS OWN.

APART FROM ANY REPEAL OR REPLACEMENT PLANS THIS IS AN EFFORT TO DEAL WITH THAT.

>> IS THAT THE EXPERIENCE THE AVERAGE AMERICAN HAS HAT OBAMACARE IS THAT -- I HAVE RELATIVES WOULD I DID NOT REALIZE GOT HEALTH INSURANCE THEY COULD NOT AFFORD IT BEFORE OBAMACARE.

AND AT LEAST THE PEOPLE I TALK TO, DON'T FEEL LIKE HEALTHCARE IS IMPLODING IN THIS COUNTRY RIGHT NOW.

>> SURE.

BUT THAT IS WHY WE HAVE A FULLY REPUBLICAN CONTROLLED CONGRESS BECAUSE THE AVERAGE MIDDLE CLASS AMERICAN FELT THEY SAW THEIR PREMIUMS RISING AND FELT SOMETHING WAS WRONG.

THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT IS NOT WHAT WE THOUGHT IT WAS IT'S BECOME A POLITICAL FOOTBALL BECAUSE THE REPUBLICANS WON OUT ON THE TALKING POINTS AND THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD NOT MANDATE INDIVIDUALS TO HAVE TO CARRY HEALTH INSURANCE.

AND GUESS WHAT?

WE ARE GOING TO TAKE CARE OF THE PREEXISTING CONDITIONS.

BUT THERE IS A LOOPHOLE FOR INSURANCE COMPANIES AND THAT COMES BY WAY OF COVERAGE CAPS THE WAY THAT INSURANCE COMPANIES CAN GET AWAY WITH NOT COVERING PREEXISTING CONDITIONS.

I DON'T KNOW A SINGLE REPUBLICAN -- >> WAIT.

THEY ARE -- BUT UNDER OBAMACARE YOU CANNOT DISCRIMINATE ON THE BASIS OF PREEXISTING CONDITIONS.

THEY ARE ALLOWING THE STATES TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT WHICH MEANS A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL LOSE COVERAGE.

>> THAT IS RIGHT.

>> WHAT IS THAT.

>> THAT IS NOT COMPASSIONATE CONSERVATISM THAT WILL HAVE AN EFFECT WHEN WE SEE THE MIDTERMS COMING UP, YOU ARE TAKING AWAY MY HEALTHCARE.

THIS IS A TOTAL CONUNDRUM FOR REPUBLICANS IN SO MANY STATES INCLUDING WEST VIRGINIA.

I DO NOT THINK THE DISCUSSION DRAFT WILL BE THE DRAFT WE SEE A FEW WEEKS FROM NOW.

I THINK IT WILL CHANGE.

SENATOR RON JOHNSON OF WISCONSIN MADE A GREAT POINT HE SAID A NEED A LONG THOUGHTFUL OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY ISSUES YOU CANNOT RAM THIS DOWN THE THROAT OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC.

>> AND STATES CAN APPLY FOR WAIVERS TO DO THINGS AS NOT COVER YOU IF YOU ARE PREGNANT WHILE YOU -- EXCLUDING PREGNANCY AS A PREEXISTING CONDITION.

AND ALL OTHER KINDS OF PREEXISTING CONDITIONS AND DISALLOW COVERAGE OF BIRTH CONTROL FOR WOMEN.

HOW MANY STATES, IF THIS BECAME LAW, HOW MANY STATES WOULD WE SEE DOING THINGS LIKE THAT?

>> A LOT OF STATES WOULD FROM THE COSTS OF IT.

TO HAVE A HIGH-RISK POOL WHERE THEY ARE LIKE WE ARE NOT GETTING THE SUBSIDIES.

SO YOU ARE GOING TO BE BACK TO THE DARK DAYS WHERE YOU ARE LIKE I HAVE A PREEXISTING CONDITION AND I CANNOT AFFORD THE HIGH-RISK POOL SO I WILL BE STUCK TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT LIKE I WAS BEFORE AND THE ESSENTIAL HEALTH BENEFITS, MATERNITY CARE GOING TO DOCTOR'S VISITS WHEN PREGNANT AND ANNUAL VISITS.

AND GETTING BIRTH CONTROL THESE ARE A LOT OF THINGS FOR WOMEN.

AND THIS IS REALLY GOING TO AFFECT TWO GROUPS OF PEOPLE: RETIREES, OLDER WOMEN, BOOMER WOMEN WHO WILL BE THE WHO VOTE WHO TAKE CARE OF THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS THEIR HUSBANDS AND KIDS WHO WILL BE NO LONGER HAVING TO HAVE THEIR HUSBANDS HAVE HOMECARE IN THEIR HOME WITH DIGNITY.

THEY WILL HAVE TO GO TO NURSING HOMES BECAUSE MEDICAID IS NOW LIKE FORCING THEM TO DO THAT.

IT'S NOT COVERING HOME INCARE COMMUNITY SERVICES.

>> LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.

BETH JAROSZ: WE THOUGHT WHEN WE STARTED THIS THAT WELL BEING HAD IMPROVED FROM GENERATION, WOMEN WERE DOING BETTER.

BUT A STUDY BY THE POPULATION REFERENCE BUREAU ACTUALLY FOUND WHILE PREVIOUS GENERATIONS OF WOMEN EXPERIENCED STEADY PROGRESS, WELL-BEING FOR YOUNG GENERATION X WOMEN STALLED AND THEN EVEN REVERSED FOR MILLENNIAL WOMEN.

THAT STUDY CALCULATED HOW WELL EACH GENERATION OF WOMEN FARED WHEN IT CAME TO FINANCES, HEALTH, SAFETY, AND OTHER AREAS.

BETH JAROSZ: PART OF IT IS THE LINGERING EFFECTS OF THE RECESSION.

AND ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITIES BEING LOST, THE POVERTY RATE AND THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE ARE HIGHER AMONG WOMEN OF THE MILLENNIAL GENERATION THAN THEY WERE FOR GEN X, BUT IT'S ALSO SOME HEALTH ISSUES.

THE SUICIDE RATE HAS RISEN UM AND THE MATERNAL MORTALITY RATE RIGHT NOW IS QUITE HIGH.

UM AND THOSE ARE TWO OF THE FACTORS THAT ARE REALLY BRINGING DOWN THE OVER WELL BEING FOR WOMEN OF MILLENNIAL GENERATION AND.•• THERE ARE A COUPLE OF OTHER AREAS IN WHICH THINGS HAVE GONE IN THE WRONG DIRECTION.

THE INCARCERATION RATES ARE THE HIGHEST THEY'VE EVER BEEN.

AND UM REPRESENTATION IN HIGH WAGE HIGH TECH JOBS ACTUALLY HAS DECLINED.

IT'S NOT ALL BAD NEWS, THOUGH.

THE GENDER PAY GAP HAS NARROWED, THOUGH NOT CLOSED.

THE TEEN BIRTH RATE IS AT A HISTORIC LOW.

AND, EDUCATIONAL ATTAINMENT HAS INCREASED.

THAT LEADS US TO ASK, WHY ARE WOMEN NOT EARNING AS MUCH IF THEY'RE DOING SO WELL IN SCHOOL?

JAROSZ: YOU'D THINK AS EDUCATION IS INCREASING, PEOPLE'S JOB OPPORTUNITIES ARE GETTING BETTER, BUT WHAT WE FOUND IS THAT... A COUPLE OF THINGS.

INEQUALITY IS RISING, AND SO THAT IS ONE OF THE SORTA BIGGEST DIVIDES, THAT THINGS HAVEN'T GOTTEN AS BAD AS FAST FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE A BACHELOR'S DEGREE OR HIGHER.

UM, BUT THE POVERTY RATE THERE STILL ROSE SOME, AND THAT THINGS FOR PEOPLE WITH LESS EDUCATION HAVE ACTUALLY GOTTEN MUCH MUCH WORSE, MUCH HIGHER RATES OF POVERTY, MUCH HIGHER RATES OF UNEMPLOYMENT AND MUCH WORSE HEALTH FOR WOMEN WITH LESS THAN A BACHELOR'S DEGREE IN EDUCATION.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE GRAPHS IT GOES THROUGH 2015 BY WHICH TIME WE WERE OUT OF THE GREAT RECESSION ACCORDING TO FEDERAL DATA.

AND THINGS ARE DOING BETTER FOR WOMEN.

IS THIS STUDY REALLY ALL BASED ON STUFF THAT HAPPENED TO WOMEN AND MEN DURING THE GREAT RECESSION?

OR IS THERE A REAL PROBLEM?

>> I WOULD NOT SAY THERE IS A PROBLEM BUT SOMETHING DIFFERENT HAPPENED BECAUSE MILLENNIAL WOMEN CAME OUT OF COLLEGE WHERE WE THOUGHT WE WOULD HAVE GREAT JOB OPPORTUNITIES AND WE DID NOT.

AND WOMEN LIKE ME WE DID NOT PURSUE CAREERS IN THE HARD SCIENCES, I STUDIED I DID NOT GO ON TO PURSUE THAT.

>> YOU WERE AN ENGINEERING STUDENT AND WENT INTO POLITICS.

>> I DID.

I DID NOT HAVE A DAY EMPLOYED AS AN ENGINEER.

THERE WERE THREE GIRLS IN MY ENGINEERING CLASS, 101, MY FIRST YEAR AND THAT WAS TOUGH.

I DIDN'T KNOW IF IT WAS FOR ME AND THAT IS WHAT MILLENNIAL WOMEN HAVE GRAPPLED WITH WE REMAIN UNDER EMPLOYED AND THE OPPORTUNITIES ARE LESS BECAUSE OF THE FIELDS WE HAVE CHOSEN TO GO IN THEY DO NOT PAY AS WELL.

>> MY HEAVENS.

THIS IS -- >> IT STARTED WHEN THEY WERE GETTING OUT OF SCHOOL.

BUT IS THIS GOING TO AFFECT MILLENNIALS THROUGHOUT THEIR LIFETIME?

>> FIRST OF ALL YOUR REFERENCE TO THE HARD SCIENCES DOES NOT HOLD.

WOMEN GENERALLY HAVE NOT PURSUED THE HARD SCIENCES BUT WE HAVE NOT SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS.

THIS IS THE DECLINE AND FALL OF THE AMERICAN DREAM.

THIS IS EACH GENERATION GETTING WORSE OFF.

YES, THE GENERATION BABY-BOOMERS, YOU START WITH THE BABY-BOOMERS HAD A BETTER ECONOMY AND YOU GO TO GENERATION X, WORSE ECONOMY BUT THEY ARE HOLDING THEIR OWN.

AND MILLENNIALS AND THAT IS PITIFUL AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WOMEN NOT CHANGING WHO THEY ARE AND BECOMING SCIENTISTS REAL QUICK.

IT HAS TO DO WITH THE STATE OF THE ECONOMY.

AND IT HAS TO DO WITH INCOME INEQUALITY.

MOST ESPECIALLY INCOME INEQUALITY.

AND IT HAS TO DO WITH GLOBALIZATION.

WHICH MEANS -- >> THIS HAPPENED UNDER THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION.

WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO WOMEN'S PROGRESS UNDER THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION WHICH CRITICS SAY YOU KNOW WANTS TO GO BACK TO THE MAD MEN ERA AND PUT WOMEN BACK THERE ALONG WITH THEM.

>> I THINK THE BUDGET THE TRUMP BUDGET IS SHOWING WHAT HE THINKS OF WOMEN.

BECAUSE WHERE HE DOES THE WORST CUTS ARE IN AREAS LIKE MEDICAID FOR EXAMPLE, AND MEDICAID NOT -- NOT MEDICAID.

MEDICARE.

-- NOT MEDICARE NOT THAT BUT IN IF YOU LOOK AT THE AGENCIES THAT ARE BEING CUT, LOOK AT HOUSING FOR EXAMPLE, LOOK AT -- >> THE WOMEN'S BUREAU AT THE LABOR DEPARTMENT.

WE BROKE THE STORY WE WERE THE FIRST TO REPORT THAT THE WOMEN'S BUREAU WHICH DISAGRIGATES LABOR SO WE KNOW THAT A LABOR DATA SO THAT WOMEN ARE TWO-THIRDS OF ALL OF THOSE ON THE MINIMUM WAGE SO THAT WE KNOW THAT WOMEN ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY HIGHER UNEMPLOYMENT RATES ALL THOSE THINGS.

HE WANTS TO CUT THAT BUREAU FROM $11.5 TO $2.95 AND THE NEXT YEAR MORE.

AND THEY ARE PHASING IT OUT.

THEY DO NOT WANT THE DATA GETTING OUT THERE.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY SOMEONE ON THE OLDER END OF THE MILLENNIALS THE IRAQ WAR WHERE I HAD FRIENDS WHO WENT TO LAW SCHOOL AND MEDICAL SCHOOL AND BANKING, BUSINESS, LIKE THEY WERE THE FIRST 2006, 2007 WIPED OUT ALL LOST THEIR JOBS.

MOST WERE UNEMPLOYED AND TOOK A WHILE TO REBOUND.

I HAD A FRIEND WHO TAUGHT CLASSES FOR A WHILE.

HE HAD A TOP LAW SCHOOL BECAUSE THE ECONOMY WAS HARD MANY AND WHAT HAPPENS FOR MEN IT'S HARD FOR THEM BUT FOR WOMEN WHO WERE COMING FROM BEHIND, IT WAS JUST A BIT OF A STRUGGLE.

I WAS ONE, I WAS DOING GREAT WORK IN GOVERNMENT BUT I HAD TO READJUST AND FIGURE OUT DIFFERENT EXPECTATIONS AND THINKING ABOUT GOING TO GRAD SCHOOL TO RECOVER AND IT TAKES A WHILE TO RECOVER THOSE WAGES.

>> AND OUR GENERATION A LOT OF US WENT TO COLLEGE AND TOOK OUT STUDENT LOAN.

AND THE STUDENT LOAN CRISIS OR THE AFFORDABILITY CRISIS FOR COLLEGE PLAYS A HUGE ROLE IN THE REASON WHY OUR GENERATION IS LAGGING BEHIND.

WHEN YOU HAVE TO PAY $500 A MONTH THAT IS HARD TO PUT MONEY ASIDE TO BUY A HOME AND PUT MONEY INTO YOUR FUTURE.

WHAT IS INTERESTING ABOUT THIS ADMINISTRATION IS LAST WEEK THERE WAS A FOCUS ON WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT AND APPRENTICESHIPS.

I THINK THERE IS A COGNIZANCE THAT EVERY STUDENT DOES NOT NEED TO GO TO COLLEGE TO GET TO THE MIDDLE CLASS.

AND THE IDEA OF PROVIDING OPPORTUNITIES FOR WOMEN FOR MEN TO BE ABLE TO GET INTO HIGH-PAYING CAREERS AND JOBS THAT HAVE LONG-TERM STABILITY, AND SECURITY IS FANTASTIC.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE FUTURE OF WORK, LOW WINSTON-SALEM WORK JOBS WILL BE AT RISK IN RETAIL AND LOTS OF THESE AREAS MINIMUM WAGE JOBS WILL BE AT RISK.

WE CANNOT TAKE A SHORT-SIGHTED PERSPECTIVE HOW DO WE PREPARE YOUNG PEOPLE FOR THE FUTURE.

>> BIG TASK AHEDGE FUND.

>> BEHIND THE HEADLINES, CRUNK FEMINISM NOT A NEW WAVE BUT A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE.

>> CRUNK FEMINISM IS A WAY OF TALKING ABOUT HIP-HOP GENERATION FEMINISM THAT CENTERS THE SORT OF DISTANT FLASHING OF POP CULTURE AND FEMINISM.

HOW YOU MIGHT LOVE THE CULTURE OF HIP-HOP OR MIGHT HAVE A GUILTY PLEASURE IN REALITY TV AND SORT OF BRINGING FEMINISM AS A LENS TO ENGAGE AND READ THOSE THINGS.

>> THE CRUNK FEMINIST COLLECTIVE MOVEMENT CREATES A SPACE WHERE PEOPLE OF COLOR CAN PARTICIPATE IN POP CULTURE WHILE STILL BEING CONSCIOUS OF FETCHNIST IDEAS.

SUSANNA MORRIS SAYS THIS BEGAN FOR HER DURING THE ERA OF CRUNK MUSIC.

>> CRUNK PEOPLE WOULD SAY FREQUENTLY, WHICH MEANT BEING WILD DANCING AND THAT STUFF BUT PEOPLE WOULD USE THE TERM IN THE SOUTH TO MEAN IF YOU HAVE TO GET SOMETHING TOGETHER IF YOU HAVE TO READ SOMEBODY AND PUT SOMEBODY IN THEIR PLACE.

>> SOMEONE WOULD SAY SOMETHING HOMOPHOBIC OR TRANSPHOBIC AND WE WOULD GET CRUNK WITH THEM.

SO WE STARTED JOKINGLY SAYING, OH, I'M CRUNK BUT I AM A CRUNK FEMINIST.

>> BUT CRUNK FEMINISM IS MORE THAN JUST ABOUT HIP-HOP MUSIC.

>> WE ARE BRINGING IN ALL PARTS OF OURSELVES THE PARTS THAT IS OUR READING, BELL HOOKS AND PATRICIA HILL COLLINS AND THE PARTS THAT ARE ENGAGING WITH POP CULTURE AND THE PARTS DEALING WITH THE INTERPERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS, THE PARTS THAT ARE DEALING WITH SYSTEMIC OPPRESSION IT WAS A WAY FOR US TO BRING ALTOGETHER.

>> WOMEN SHOULD CHOOSE WHEN AND WHEN NOT TO REFERENCE POP CULTURE.

SOME HIP-HOP SONGS MAY BE VERBAL ATTACKS AGAINST WOMEN.

>> WE SHOULD NOT DISMISS THINGS THAT MIGHT BE PROBLEMATIC.

THAT DOES NOT MEAN WE ENDORSE EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE A HARDLINE.

>> MA SONGNIST LYRICS ARE NOT CONFINED TO THE HIP-HOP ERA.

>> WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY THAT HATES WOMEN AND THE NOTION THAT HIP-HOP CULTURE IS MORE SO AND SAY NO WE CANNOT ENGAGE AND THAT IS A PART OF ANTIBLACKNESS.

>> GLORIA STEIN THEM TOLD US BLACK WOMEN INVENTED THE WOMEN'S MOVEMENT BUT DO NOT GET CREDIT FOR THE ROLE.

CRUNK FEMINISM IS NOT NECESSARILY A NEW WAVE, JUST AN ADDITIONAL OUTLET.

>> SO I THINK THAT THE WAVES ARGUMENT DOES NOT RECOGNIZE THE WAYS IN WHICH BLACK WOMEN, LATINA WOMEN AND ASIAN WOMEN AND TRANSGENDER NON-CONFORMING, WE HAVE OUR OWN TRAJECTORY.

YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

I HAVE ALWAYS HAD TO HAVE OUR OWN TRAJECTORY AND NEVER HAD SINGLE-ISSUE LIVES.

>> OFTEN WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ISSUES AROUND SIXISM RACISM IS LEFT OUT.

AND ATTENTION TO GENDER AND WOMAN HOOD [INAUDIBLE] OFTENTIMES ARE FOCUSED ON THE POLICE KILLINGS OF BLACK MEN.

WHEN THINGS LIKE THAT HAPPEN TO BLACK WOMEN WHETHER IT'S THROUGH POLICE KILLINGS OR INTIMATE PARTNER VIOLENCE WHICH IS A REALLY BIG DEAL, IT'S HARD TO GET THE FOCUS ON BLACK WOMEN BECAUSE IT'S HARD FOR THERE TO BE A PUBLIC FOCUS ON INTERSECTIONALITY.

>> SO AS A FEMINIST AND A DEMOCRAT WHAT IS IT GOING TO DO TO FEMINISM IF IT'S BEING SEPARATED BY RACE?

>> I DO NOT THINK THAT IS A WAY TO SORT OF LOOK AT IT.

I LOOK AT IT IS HOW WE ADD SOME DIVERSITY INTO THE FEMINIST STYLE.

YOU KNOW FOR ME WHEN I SAY I AM A FEMINIST I AM A BLACK FEMINIST BECAUSE THERE IS A THEORY BEHIND THAT AND UNDERSTANDING SOME OF MY PREFERS NOT TO USE THE FEMINIST TERM OR AFRICAN-AMERICAN THEY CALL THEMSELVES WOMENNISTS.

AND I AM A KID OF THE I GREW UP IN THE 80s AND THE 90s WHERE A LOT OF THESE HIP-HOP STARS TUPAC AND BIGGIE WERE BIG BUT WE ENGAGED AND CAME INTO OUR OWN CONSCIENCES AROUND THAT TIME.

IF THAT IS MORE FRIENDLY FOR SOME WOMEN THE MORE THE BETTER.

>> THE ONLY PART I DISAGREE WITH CRUNK FEMINISM THE FOUNDER WHATEVER SHE GAVE WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY THAT HATES WOMEN.

I JUST DISAGREE WITH THAT ENTIRELY.

I DO NOT THINK WE DO.

I AM SOMEBODY THAT CALLED MYSELF A FEMINIST AND A LIFELONG REPUBLICAN.

>> A LOT OF REPUBLICANS ARE REEMBRACING THE TERM AFTER DROPPED IT FOR 20-30 YEARS.

>> WE ARE.

BECAUSE WE THINK THAT WE DO AGREE WITH THAT SENTIMENT ALL ISSUES ARE WOMEN'S ISSUES AND WOMEN'S ISSUES ARE EVERYONE'S ISSUES.

>> YOU GAVE THE SLOGAN OF THE INDEPENDENT WOMEN'S MOVEMENT.

>> I CONSIDER MYSELF A FEMINIST DO I NEED TO SLICE OUT MY RACE OR BACKGROUND?

NO.

ONCE WE ARE GETTING TO THE ISSUE OF INSURING ALL WOMEN, WOMEN ARE UPLIFTED.

AND I LOVE THAT PIECE CALLED OUT THE MISOGYNY IN POP CULTURE IN MUSIC BUT YOU HAVE TO CALL OUT WRONG WHEN WRONG IS OCCURRING.

>> THAT IS WHAT IS GREAT ABOUT THIS CRUNK FEMINISM, COMPARTMENTALLISM DOES NOT WORK ANYMORE.

>> I GOT THE FEELING THAT THAT IS WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT REALLY.

>> COMPARTMENTALLISM?

>> IT'S ABOUT WHICH IS IT IS ABOUT TIME THAT WHITE WOMEN STARTED MOVING OVER AND GIVING THE MICROPHONE AT THE PODIUM TO WOMEN OF COLOR IN THE FEMINIST MOVEMENT.

OUR OWN PANELIST, LATIFA RAN FOR PRESIDENT OF NOW AND BEATEN BY AN OLDER WHITE WOMAN WHICH I THOUGHT ON NOW'S PART WAS A RIDICULOUS CHOICE TO MAKE.

>> BUT YOU ARE TALKING OLD SCHOOL FEMINISM THESE WOMEN ARE REACHING OUT TO PARTS OF THE CULTURE SOME WILL BE WHITE AND SOME WILL NOT AND THEY LIKE THEY EVEN LIKE HIP-HOP BUT THEY DON'T LIKE THE MISOGYNIST.

>> HOW CAN YOU DIVIDE THE TWO?

>> YOU CAN BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT OF HIP-HOP THAT IS NOT MISOGYNIST AND YOU HAVE TO MOVE TO THAT BEAT.

>> THAT IS RIGHT.

>> AND YOU DON'T WANT TO BREAK THE WHOLE THING BUT MAYBE YOU CAN CORRECT IT BY SPEAKING OUT AGAINST IT YOU FELLOWS KNOW I LOVE YOU CLEAN UP THE LYRICS.

>> AND LISTENING TO MORE FEMALE HIP-HOP ARTISTS.

>> I LOVE TUPAC, HE HAD LIKE I GET AROUND AND HAD KEEP YOUR HEAD UP DEDICATED TO BLACK WOMEN AND THEIR STRUGGLE.

>> THAT IS IT FOR THIS EDISON OF TO THE CONTRARY FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY AND WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK TO THE CONTRARY, SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

[♪♪] >> FUNDING FOR TO THE CONTRA >> FUNDING FOR WEBSITE AT PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.

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