(Music plays) >> Republican lawmakers aim to change higher Ed.

John Rust at the Indiana Supreme Court, plus Mayorkas impeached and more.

From the television studios at WFYI, it's Indiana Week in Review for the week ending February 16, February 16, 2024.

(Music plays) >> Indiana Week in Review is made possible the supporters of Indiana public broadcasting stations.

>> This week, the house committee education heard over three hours of testimony on a bill that would change Indiana's tenure rules and put trustees appointed by the legislature on University boards.

>> Republican Senator Spencer Deery's bill allows trustees to revoke tenure to faculty who failed to teach diverse viewpoints in their classrooms.

Deery open to discussion of the billing community by chastising the media and i.e.

Pamela Whitten who says the bill would put academic freedom at risk.

Theory says his bill is not an attack on tenure and pointed to a clause that he says would protect professors for views expressed outside the classroo.

>> That is a big deal for tenured faculty in Indiana and anybody who favours and understands the reasons why we have tenure should be supportive of that and celebrate that change.

>> Dozens of faculty, student, and officials from Indiana's public universities told lawmakers they disagree.

You history Professor Jonathan's lessons are drew parallels to his own study of communist China fall top >> In the People's Republic of China, educators long ago lost their independence to political boards and the result was brain drain.

>> Deery also face harsh questioning from Democrats including represented Ed DeLaney.

>> You are requiring the professors, for examples in sociology or political science, to give a range of opinions and to be neutral, in effect.

You are neutering, and EE UT you are ING your faculty.

That is what you are trying to do.

>> The committee could considr amendments and vote on the bill next week full stop >> Does tenure in your education the reform?

It is the first question for our Indiana Week in Review panel.

Democrat and Delaney, Republican Chris Mitchen, Jon Schwantes, host of "Indiana lawmakers", and Niki Kelly, editor-in-chief of "The Indiana capital Chronicle".

I am Brandon Smith.

And Delaney, Deery set higher education is not a welcoming place for conservative views citing a peer study that showed conservative students feel like their views are not welcome on campuses.

>> Is he right?

>> Really?

>> Know he's not right!

I mea, when you look at the people who testified in this case from the Kelley School and Perdue where I am sure they have conservative students, we have spent 200 years as a state developing quality research institutions that are recognized around the world and have made a difference in millions of people's lives for the better.

And this freshman senator, OK?

Who has never been a professor, I might add, comes in and says, "Oh no, this is going to increase academic freedom. "

he is full of it.

He doesn't know what he is talking about.

I mean, when you are talking about feeling uncomfortable, there is twice in higher education.

You can go to Bob Jones Institute if that's where you are comfortable and that is the only thing you want out of higher education but the idea that you have to advance all the virgin ideas and talk about them, whether it is that that the Holocaust didn't exist or that slavery was actually of the benefit to Africans or that all vaccines are bad, or that evolution is just a theory?

You know, it is ridiculous and to do this in a short session when you have universal, as you did, opposition from all the professors and the administrators shows just how out of touch this guy is.

And I'll be interested to see, I know it is a safe Republican seat what I'd be shocked if he doesn't have primary opposition time around.

>> The legislature just went through a slightly similar bill last year but not looking at higher Ed, looking at K 12.

Saying teachers have to be completely neutral in what they are teaching and show a viewpoint.

That bill got into trouble because of Scott Baldwin said, oh, you know, you have to teach about Nazis.

And of course they then walked that back and apologized and the Bill kind of got weekend after that, basically full stop >> Oh yeah!

>> This feels very Simmler to that conversation.

Why is this one's state -- sailing through which much less opposition?

>> I think it's interesting hw none of the people and just mentioned, you know, the higher Ed folks and all the officials testified in the first half because I think they were working with Senator Deery behind the scenes actually enshrining more protections for tenure and Deery actually made a really good point, if you want to take a beehive you can start talking about tenure and education.

But I think there are some protections in this bill that words in the K-12 one.

Now whether those reductions will work is yet to be seen.

I know he spent a lot of time talking about the scholarly aspect of it, so to your point, and you would think he would be hard-pressed to find actual scholarly peer-reviewed articles >> Oh!

>> That say slavery was a benefit to black people.

>> They are putting it in the parade you live in Florida!

I bet you'll find some!

>> About another thing, people say this is another Florida/Texas bill.

It's not all stopped those bills are absolutely eliminating tenure.

This bill enshrines Daniel.

>> Doesn't need to be enshrined!

>> Yes, there are very little protections for higher education tenure fall top >> It is in their contract for tenure fall stopped >> I know, but it's not in the code.

I don't see anything about Apple top >> Widely needed in the code?

>> All we are adding is the electoral diversity fall to yo mention the K-12 bill.

It actually reminds me a lot of BEST bill from a couple years ago where it just says take into account fiscal response ability and not social, political things when it comes to investing in money.

I don't understand what the whole hoopla is about just saying you need to present intellectual diversity and make sure you are presenting more than one.

If you are against that, it makes you think there is an alternative mode of their fall top >> It is all ideas, no matter how far-fetched they are fall top at the problem.

>> John, something the Deery sat on the Senate floor and he was resenting the bill for passage in that chamber struck me because it is something we talk about here on the show a lot, which is the idea of perception being reality.

That is, you know, if this pew study is to be believed, that if conservative students feel like they are not welcomed or their views aren't welcome, even if that is not the case in a literal sense, the fact that they perceive that means that it is a problem that needs to be addressed.

>> But you don't know that no.

You didn't have one conservative students come forward and say he felt uncomfortable.

You only had Deery's word that they are out there somewhere fall top >> Well no, but you do have this study.

>> Deery is quoted... >> Well... >> It we don't know any thing about that either fall top >> Diversity of audios is not away called for or warranted, do you know why?

Sometimes they are right ideas that there are accurate and sometimes their ideas that are wrong and dangerous.

We hire people who are intelligent, who have a proven track record as scholars and academic, give them tenure.

They have done wonderful things for the state of Indiana.

Leave well enough alone is what I would say fall top >> Yes!

>> Thank goodness Bob Knight isn't around to see this, he would've had to spend half the time with his team playing man- to-man and the other half playing zone because there are two eggs to look at this issue.

No one is to say what is right and one is wrong.

But we hire Bob Knight to coach the team in a way he thought best.

>> Right!

>> Let's face it, the General assembly has never well, I won't say never.

Has not understood the higher education in Indiana.

Certainly has not understood the role of R1 institution, Carnegie R one research Institute.

And I am over generalizing.

There has not been an appreciation on the part of the General assembly as long as I have been around for what those institutions to fall top >> There is a part of the bell that I can have kind of loan under the radar a little bit though.

Frank Taylor of the Senator floor went at it with.

Quite a bit on this part which is, looking at those same surveys, the group of students who are even more feel even Manuel, our African-American students.

And the bill changes the wording in code from "Minority students" to "Underrepresented students".

Now that obviously incorporates African-American students because they are underrepresented in many cases throughout higher education, unfortunately.

Not every school, certainly but do you think that is a part of the bill that needs to get a little more attention?

Or do you think that really is just a linguistic not a big deal kind of change?

>> I think they could probably tweak it a little, you know, obviously it still covers students of various minorities.

Not just black students.

>> Sure.

>> But whatever it may be.

And the reason they are changing it is to include conservative, too, let's be honest.

>> Right.

>> I will point out that several people noted to me this week that a couple years ago, when minority students, for instance, felt uncomfortable or white students were feeling uncomfortable in high schools because we were talking about diversity, the legislature jumped in.

So, some people are saying "Look, this is like reverse DEI for conservatives. "

and I think that's interesting.

The other part about it that i, you know, by taking alumni board trustee appointments away and giving it to the legislature, I mean, that's another big part of it that is getting some significant pushback beyond just the diversity of thought section.

(Multiple speakers) >> I do want to note 2, all these universities have processes for this.

There are complaints.

If students feel, look, it is one thing to say with -- , "I feel uncomfortable. "

if a professor is literally belittling a student or making him feel like they can't speak up, that should be pointed out and complained to the University.

>> Right.

>> Installed with all top >> And they have processes to do that already fall top >> I want to spend a bit more time just on this one real quick because you bring up the point about taking appointments away from alumni associations and giving them to the legislature.

So Senator Taylor, again, was saying well, you are only giving it to the majority, you know, the Senate, President pro tem and the speaker of the house will why not also give appointments to the minority leaders?

And the answer was, well, we don't want to make it political.

>> (Laughs) >> How can you with a straight face they we will take away alumni -- from alumni associations and give to politically elected leaders and it's not political?

>> They are also changing the opposition.

Now you only have to have you can have whatever the number i.

Nine of one sex and only one another.

And I can only just imagine that they will have nine women on the Purdue board next time.

I'm sure.

>> Do you think the "We are trying to make it less political" argument lies on that part of it?

>> I need, the whole bill, right?

It's trying to make it less political it away.

You are saying that conservatives are being chastised on call is -- on college campuses let's bring it back to the centre where there were operable.

On that aspect in particular, I know the bill provisions as with the advisement of the minority leader, so I guess a priority there is to make sure we don't add more to the trustee board that's not already there.

But to your point that... >> The Republicans have read could rack controlled those boards for the last 20 years.

If this is such a big problem out there, why hasn't it... >> As the only person who graduated from Indiana University on this panel, you just say I attend class on occasion fall top I went to a lot of classes that I had a lot of professors.

There were arched conservative professors who made no bones about it.

There were, devout communist.

Bernie Morris, Marxism after Mark so stop I didn't do right in the class but I didn't agree with them but I appreciated the views, and the reviews of service will topic it is there was that robotics angels are >> You also have the choice, not only of which school to go to but of which profession to tackle top >> Sometimes will stops >> At these large institution.

>> Sometimes.

>> Not all the time full stop >> When you're just trying to get a class and, only sometime.

>> You have to be willing to get up at 830 to go to class I.

>> And I was in plan willing o do that I connect >> Each week we pose an unscientific online poker table top this week's question is: Is higher education unwelcoming to conservative views.

I, yes, or B, Nobles oblast weekly weather not ask you whether Victoria Spartz is running for election will hurt her?

23% Deaf 73% say F, 23% say no fall top if you would like to take part in the poll, go to WFYI.R/I FIR and look for the poll.

Whether chapter there Indiana egg farmer John Rust will appear on the Republic and ballot to spring is now in the hands of Supreme Court, and the court heard arguments Monday on Russ's lawsuit challenge in the states ballot access law.

>> There are two ways an Indiana candidate can run with a Republican or Democratic primary fall top they must have voted in that primary my parties primary in the last two primary elections on which they cast a ballot where they have to get the permission of the county party leader where they live.

John Rust doesn't meet those requirements.

He voted in the 2016 GOP primary but cast Democratic ballots before that and his local party leader refuses to allow him access.

An attorney for the state argued the ballot access law makes things clearer for voters by keeping ballots uncluttered and showing affiliation with a political party.

Supreme Court Justice Christopher Goff sound its capital.

>> I'm really having a difficult time understanding how voter confusion is alleviated by precluding a choice between two candidates.

>> Justice Mark Massa suggestd political parties should get to choose who runs in their primaries.

>> I wanted to associate with the most popular girl in high school, but she had a say in i.

Doesn't the party here have some say in who associates with it?

>> Late in the week, disciplie issued a stay of the trial court's ruling, meaning it paused the order that ensures rest remains on the ballot.

>> Chris Mitchen, just how bad a sign for Rest is that stay for trial courts?

>> Yes, depends on how you lok at it.

I mean, you know, it's tepidly probably going to be a lot of saving time and money if he isn't going to be on that considering he's already pumped millions into his campaign and with all due respect to Mr Ros, when you have a Trump endorsement on the Bankside, as well as a state GOP party on that side, getting into the race was certainly a heroic but the chances would be low.

But in all honesty, I don't think this ruling for the Supreme Court is surprising.

Just from a general judicial review, even a lot of the discussions you heard from the judges.

I had a hard time even considering, you know, what harm this is also opposite the First Amendment?

This amendment?

Everyone was talking about strict review or, there was just a lot of uncertainty.

I don't think this ruling was shocking in that aspect, but I think this would have a more impact on future situations where this would come up.

I think it would have a much longer impact on that's one versus this race where, you know, he was arty kinda facing an uphill battle.

>> The trial court rulings tht Indiana's ballot access law is unconstitutional for like five different reasons.

Now the court is saying, let's just put that opinion on hold while we take a little more time to issue our ruling.

Is it fair to say that it seems like that ruling is going to be that the ballot access laws defined?

>> I don't know.

I mean, I think there are some problems with the ballot access law.

The fact that a County Chair who is not even an elected official by the State of Indiana can determine who is or isn't on the ballot is a littl, you know, the arguments the state made, I assume it was somebody from the AG's office, but the argument the state made really was kind of nonsensical.

It's too confusing to have names on the ballot, basically, to the average voter.

Yes, I mean, OK.

I think they can determine between two choices (Laughs) Which one they want.

And the idea that they have to save the voters from having too much of a choice in an election is kinda problematic too, especially since you got what, five candidates for Governor and they don't seem concerned about that?

on the Republican side X notnor >> Six candidates!

It >> In the long term, I think the Supreme Court's ruling will have a much longer affect and what we certainly effect there will be in the short table top it is not really in the hands of the election Commissioner.

It feels like they're not going to keep John Rust on the ballot given that generally if you don't meet these two things under the law, that is a ballgame.

>> Yes, two years ago the election commission voted I'm a member of these two primary challenges and they >> I was the first election I think >> Yes, even those who were publican into Democrat, they stuck straight with the law relating candidates on both sides in uniform.

Now, if they do a 2/2 tie, Rest would say on the ballot.

>> John, we talked before abot the issue of the ballot access law in general.

Is the reality of this of that parties should be able to choose who gets run in their primaries?

>> I mean, that's sort of at the core.

The notion that we have a two party system.

I guess we could even comment where you want to start the debate?

Should we go all the way back to two should we have a two party system or go with our parliamentary system?

As long as we have two party system, you have to have some mechanism, I presume, that allows the party faithful to pick the people they want.

There is no perfect solution.

You could argue that the presidential primary process does not produce the candidates that represent their views necessarily of the bulk of the party because of the way it is structured and the activism that you see at the primary level.

So, I mean, if the question is I don't know that legalities or the morality or the philosophical aspect, but I think to your point earlier, the fact that there is a pause now indicates that they are likely to be overruled.

>> Even to the point you just made, I think we saw the justices generally in the argument on Monday this week kind of struggle with the idea of, OK, maybe this isn't great.

But what else do we have.

In a state where you do not register as a Republican or Democratic?

>> There was a point made tha, you know, Republicans have to have a public primary fall top they, like libertarians do, can just do it all in the convention if they want and then 12 or 1,300 people are the only one to get there say.

So, they are trying to find kind of a medical -- middle ground that is still public but the major parties so that you have some say over who represents them.

>> That make sense if you do the primaries.

If you haven't voted in a Democratic primary at whatever period of time fall top you can do that by statute.

But the idea that somebody who's not an elected official in the normal sense of the term can determine, he can bypass that?

>> About the backup.

(Multiple speakers) >> At the backup but it also gives that person and out of -- An awful lot of power that the statute doesn't give them fall top >> If you vote in the primary, you don't have a problem.

>> Well, I agree with that but not the other fall top >> Alright, the US house this week impeached Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas by a single vote, making him the first Cabinet Secretary to be impeached in more than a century.

>> Republicans say they impeached Mayorkas for wilful and systemic refusal to comply with the law in enforcing border policy and breaching public trust.

Three Republicans joined every Democrat in voting against it.

Biden Administration said the MP midst -- impeachment was done without a shred of evidence or littered amid constitutional grounds.

Indiana's house delegation voted along party lines, the seven Republicans voted in favour and two Democrats oppos.

The process now shifts to the democratically controlled Senate where it is extremely unlikely Mayorkas will be convicted and removed from office.

>> Niki Kelly, does impeachmet mean anything?

>> I mean, it's definitely losing the power that used to have.

We use it as a political tool against each other on both sides do it.

I'm not, you know, saying anything against either side.

The fact is, is that, even, I guess the last time the only time I Cabinet member has been impeached, 1876.

And they did not convict him.

Because when we have these small margins in the Senate, why are we wasting the time and effort?

You know you are not getting two thirds.

>> That is so, is it really purely, at this point, until or unless one of the parties has more than two thirds control of the United States Senate, is this purely applicable tool?

>> Sure.

It is.

But that's all we are seeing a lot of.

I mean, that's essentially what we are seeing in Congress now.

At least on the Republican side of the equation.

Look at the impeachment proceedings and investigation about the president.

You see this.

But that's not going to go anywhere either as long as there is a Democrat-controlled Senate.

Now, I'm not saying they don't have the right to do it, I mea, sometimes bringing something to light is important.

But if you look at the hard, cold realities of political, calculating the mathematics of it, it ain't got a happen.

>> After Donald Trump was impeached twice while he was president, now we have Republicans impeaching Mayorka, the Homeland Security Secretar.

And not yet Joe Biden, though they certainly have a significant chunk of that caucus that has been trying to do that since they took contro.

How do voters do this, at this point?

>> I mean, I think the first thing you have to remind them is like, the whole point of impeaching somebody is they committed a high crime in their office and they should be removed from office.

It started back with Trump and the Democrats, unfortunately, where yes, he did a lot of stuff they didn't like but did he commit crime?

The Senate said that he didn't.

Same goes for his secretary Mayorkas as well.

Like, he did not commit a high crime.

So if you are a Republican, you are kind of stuck into headsets of, one, you can keep doing the impeaching it like the Democrats keep doing the impeaching is like an idea of mutually assured discretion, or you can try to be the bigger man in the room and say, "Let's just not do this and hope that the Democrats stop impeaching people because they disagree with them".

Which, with the current temperature, I'm imagining usually the assured to structure what is probably it.

>> I mean, at this point, if a voter is looking at this they just go, oh, OK be impeached that couples are already top is a statement of unhappiness fall top >> The average voter doesn't even know who he is, OK?

>> Yelled.

>> And he clearly didn't commt any high crime or misdemeanour.

And I would disagree with you fall top I think Trump did when he was in office but you're right, without two thirds, you can't convict.

>> Alright, with the first haf of the session now firmly in the rearview mirror, one bill that didn't advance this session was a measure to increase the speed limit on the Indiana interstates and highways to 75 mph up from 70 in rural areas.

A Republican Representative Ben Johnson said he knowledge the bill which only got a hearing in the house committee is just the start of a conversation that could last until next session.

>> Smelt says improvement in cars and their technology is pumping the discussion.

>> We have sensors, the steering is so much tighter, the cars are so much better the engineering so much better.

>> Toby Randolph is a civil engineer at representing the American Council of engineering comedies.

He says increasing speed limits should be a data-driven decision.

He points to a study out of Michigan which raised speed limits on some feet -- Freeway to 75 mph in 2017.

>> Generally coincided with increases in both frequency and severity of crashes.

>> The Indiana Department of transportation also testified against the bill, noting that average speeds had increased every year since 2018.

>> Jon Schwantes can this idea eventually make it to the finish line?

>> Eventually.

>> Two-car pond!

>> Two!

>> That's very impressive ultimate TP keyword in your question is eventually fall top not this session, but there is no speed limit on how fast this bill can travel, of course.

So maybe down the line.

I mean, let's look at the realities of it.

I mean, at what point does legislation and statutory, regulatory, that environment, catch up with what people are @ actually doing?

I think it's already safe to say that the vast majority of people who use our roadways are probably driving at 75 anyway.

>> So, and that's the thing.

You know, and it was pointed out that average speeds have been going up pretty steadily since 2018.

We saw particularly a spike after COVID, so everyone, after the same homeowner, the roads were way driving faster and then all the drivers came back on the roadways and we just kept going the same speed, I guess.

Is the average person going to go oh, we need to raise the speed limit beyond what it already is?

>> I remember when we went frm 65 to 70 and it was like such a big deal.

I guess, I mean I think a lot of people are already going this.

One thing I found most interesting from that hearing was in that being very strongly against it.

Lots of times agencies kind of stay out of that kind of thing and say, we just implement the law.

For them to come out so strongly against it was significant.

>> Real quick question... >> There was actually a bill last year that would permit arch semi trucks going from 65 to 70 in the truckers Association came out and said, "We don't want to go faster because that sounds like higher insurance premiums.

Close quote >> (Laughs) And that's an important point!

Alright, that's Indiana Week in Review for this week.

Our panel is Democrat and a lady, Republican Chris Mitchen, Jon Schwantes of "Indiana lawmakers", and Niki Kelly of "The Indiana capital Chronicle.

You can find Indiana Week in Review's podcast and episode that WFYI.org/IW IR or on the PBS app stop I am Brandon Smith of Indiana public broadcasting.

Join us next time, because a lot can happen in an Indiana week.

(Music plays) >> The opinions expressed are