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AND BY POLITICO'S "NEW JERSEY PLAYBOOK," A TOPICAL NEWSLETTER ON GARDEN STATE POLITICS, ONLINE AT POLITICO.COM ♪ >>> AN OLD FACE IS REJOINING THE MURPHY ADMINISTRATION AS AN EFFORT TO CHECK THE GOVERNOR'S EMERGENCY POWERS BEGINS.

WITH COVID RECEDING BUT NOT LIKELY GOING AWAY.

HI, AND WELCOME TO "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE."

I'M COLLEEN O'DAY IN FOR DAVID CRUZ.

THIS WEEK, WE HAVE AN ALL-STAR GROUP OF JERSEY JOURNALISTS, INCLUDING LILO STANTON, HEALTHCARE WRITER FOR NJ SPOTLIGHT NEWS, MIKE SIMONS, STATE HOUSE BUREAU CHIEF FOR NJ 101.5, AND FRED SNOWFLAK, COLUMNIST WITH INSIDER NEW JERSEY.

THEY'LL BE JOINING US IN A BIT, BUT FIRST, WE START WITH SENATE REPUBLICAN LEADER STEVE OROHO.

SENATOR, WELCOME TO "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE."

>> COLLEEN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> SENATOR, WE'RE LESS THAN A MONTH INTO THE NEW SESSION AND YOU ARE THE NEW LEADER OF YOUR PARTY IN THE SENATE.

WHAT ARE YOUR PRIORITIES FOR THE NEXT TWO YEARS?

>> COLLEEN, FIRST OF ALL, THANKS FOR HAVING ME, AND THE PRIORITIES, AS THE REPUBLICANS, BOTH IN THE SENATE AND THE ASSEMBLY HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT FOR YEARS AS THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE IS AFFORDABILITY.

WE'RE GLAD TO HEAR THAT THE GOVERNOR MENTIONED IT.

THE NEW SENATE PRESIDENT MENTIONED IT.

THE SPEAKER MENTIONED IT.

IT SEEMS LIKE EVERYBODY WAS MENTIONING IT, AND QUITE FRANKLY, WE HAVE GIVEN A NUMBER OF IDEAS -- THEY USED SOME OF THEM ALREADY, THE IDEA OF A SPECIAL EDUCATION FUNDING AT THE STATE LEVEL.

I KNOW THAT WAS A MAJOR PRIORITY OF SENATE PRESIDENT STEVE V SWEENEY.

HE MADE A BIG PUSH FOR IT.

IT WAS SOMETHING THE REPUBLICANS HAD DISCUSSED PROBABLY FIVE, SIX YEARS AGO, AND THEN ALSO, JUST RECENTLY, A BILL IS PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE IN THE SENATE GIVING THE WHAT'S REFERRED TO AS THE ENERGY TAX RECEIPTS BACK TO THE MUNICIPALITIES AND MAKING THAT MONEY DIRECTLY RELATED TO REDUCING PROPERTY TAXES.

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THE REPUBLICANS HAVE TALKED ABOUT FOR A LONG TIME.

THAT'S A LITTLE BIT IN THE WEEDS BUT IT'S A LOT OF MONEY.

>> WELL, IT'S BEEN HOW LONG, 15 YEARS, MAYBE LONGER SINCE THAT MONEY HAS BEEN INCREASED TO MUNICIPALITIES, RIGHT?

IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME.

>> CORRECT.

CORRECT.

UNDER WHAT'S REFERRED TO AS THE CONTRA-AID, A WHOLE HOST OF FORMULAS THERE, BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS, THE STATE HAS BEEN TAKING THE MONEY THAT SHOULD BE RIGHTLY IN THE MUNICIPALITIES' HANDS AND THE REPUBLICANS HAD A BILL FOR MANY TIMES GIVING THAT BACK.

WE ALSO MADE SOME AMENDMENTS TO SAY, LISTEN, IT MUST BE USED TO REDUCE PROPERTY TAXES, NOT FOR INCREASED SPENDING, BUT TO REDUCE PROPERTY TAXES.

>> YOU JUST MENTIONED THE WORDS, GIVE IT BACK.

ON THURSDAY, YOU ANNOUNCED AN EFFORT THAT YOU'RE CALLING, GIVE IT BACK.

CALLING ATTENTION TO A NUMBER OF GOVERNOR MURPHY'S POLICIES THAT REPUBLICANS DON'T LIKE.

TALK ABOUT YOUR MOTIVATION FOR THAT.

ARE YOU HOPING THAT THIS IS GOING TO HELP THE GOP WIN MORE SEATS IN 2023?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

PLUS, THE MAIN THING, COLLEEN, IS THE FACT THAT OBVIOUSLY, WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, TWO YEARS, ESSENTIALLY, UNTIL 2023, UNTIL THE ELECTION, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IF YOU RECALL LAST YEAR, THE MURPHY ADMINISTRATION HAD MADE A NUMBER OF -- THEY BORROWED MONEY THAT OBVIOUSLY WASN'T NECESSARY AND THIS YEAR THE SAME THING IS HAPPENING WITH RESPECT TO THE ADDITIONAL REVENUE THAT'S COMING IN HIGHER THAN WHAT HAD BEEN FORECASTED, PROBABLY TO THE TUNE OF ABOUT $3 BILLION AT FORMER TREASURERS AND ECONOMISTS HAVE SAID THAT BASED UPON THE CURRENT TRENDS, IT'S PROBABLY WHAT THE ADMINISTRATION IS LOOKING AT, ABOUT $3 BILLION MORE THAN WHAT WAS EXPECTED.

SO, THE FIRST THING WE STARTED TALKING ABOUT IS THAT, HEY, LISTEN, THE EASIEST THING IS CALL FOR THE ADMINISTRATION TO GIVE THAT REVENUE BACK IN THE FORM OF, YOU KNOW, TAX REDUCTIONS, AND THEN WE STARTED THINKING, YOU KNOW, GIVE IT BACK IS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE BEEN ASKING FOR, FOR A LONG TIME.

FIRST OF ALL, THE WHOLE IDEA OF THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE.

THE GOVERNOR HAS, YOU KNOW, GOVERNED BY EXECUTIVE ORDER, A ONE-PERSON RULE FOR THE PAST TWO YEARS NOW.

SO, THE WHOLE IDEA OF GIVING THE PEOPLE'S -- THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE BACK AND THE LEGISLATURE, IF YOU REMEMBER LAST YEAR, THE REPUBLICANS ASKED A NUMBER OF TIMES FOR THE LEGISLATURE -- A CO-EQUAL BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT -- TO LIMIT THE GOVERNOR'S POWER OR AT LEAST THE GOVERNOR HAS TO COME AND TALK TO THE LEGISLATURE AND NEGOTIATE SOME OF THESE EXECUTIVE ORDER ISSUES.

THE IDEA OF GIVING PARENTS BACK THEIR, YOU KNOW, PARENTAL RIGHTS, THE IDEA OF GIVING VACCINE CHOICE BACK, THE IDEA OF ECONOMIC FREEDOM, THE LOCKDOWNS, THERE'S A NUMBER OF ZESTUDIES O THERE RIGHT NOW, ONE FROM A VERY PROMINENT INSTITUTION, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY, THAT SAID THAT THE LOCKDOWNS DID NOT HELP.

IT WAS ONLY LIKE 0.2% ON THE MORTALITY RATE, AND THEN ALSO THE IDEA OF GIVING BACK SAFE STREETS.

SO THE WHOLE IDEA OF GIVING BACK TO THE POWER TO THE PEOPLE, NOT JUST ONE PERSON RULE.

>> YEAH, AND TO JUST KIND OF STICK WITH THAT, SO, YOU'RE COSPONSORING SENATOR O'SCAN LON BUSINESS BILL AND YOU HAVE A DEMOCRATIC COSPONSOR IN VIN GOPAL.

THERE WAS A SIMILAR MOVE THAT FELL SHORT IN THE LAST SESSION.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO BE DIFFERENT THIS TIME?

>> YOU KNOW, COLLEEN, LAST TIME, AND YOU MENTIONED IN THE LAST SESSION, THE SENATE REPUBLICANS AND PROBABLY THE ASSEMBLY REPUBLICANS DID AT LEAST FOUR OR FIVE TIMES MADE A MOTION OF THE DAY TO BRING A BILL UP THAT WOULD LIMIT THE GOVERNOR'S POWERS AND AT LEAST MAKE THE -- ENGAGE THE LEGISLATURE IN THESE DISCUSSIONS AND THESE DECISIONS, AND UNFORTUNATELY, EVERY TIME THE DEMOCRAT PARTY HAD TABLED IT, AND ONCE THEY TABLED IT, THEY -- IT STOPPED AS A DISCUSSION.

INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, SOME OF THE DEMOCRATS IN THE SENATE DIDN'T VOTE TO TABLE THE BILL AT THAT TIME BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S COVID EXHAUSTION.

THERE'S EXECUTIVE ORDER EXHAUSTION.

AND I DO THINK THAT YOU'LL START TO SEE SOME OF THE DEMOCRATS AS WELL SAY THAT, HEY, LISTEN, WE'RE A CO-EQUAL BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT.

THEY SHOULD BE SAYING IT RIGHT NOW.

THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN SAYING IT LAST YEAR, THAT WE'RE A CO-EQUAL BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT, AND WE NEED TO BE IN THE GAME, NOT ON THE SIDELINES.

>> RIGHT.

SO, NOW, FOR THE FIRST TIME IN A DOZEN YEARS, THERE'S NEW LEADERSHIP IN BOTH PARTIES IN THE SENATE, NOT JUST YOU, BUT ALSO ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE WITH SENATE PRESIDENT SCUTARI.

NOW, HE SAID HE WANTS TO WORK IN A BIPARTISAN MANNER, BUT THAT'S SOMETHING WE HEAR A LOT FROM POLITICIANS.

DO YOU THINK THINGS MAY BE DIFFERENT THIS SESSION?

>> OH, COLLEEN, I'VE ALWAYS TRIED TO WORK IN A BIPARTISAN -- LISTEN, IF YOU'RE A MINORITY, TO GET THINGS DONE, YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO HAVE INFLUENCE AND TRY AND, YOU KNOW, NEGOTIATE.

IN A MINORITY PARTY, YOU HAVE TO NEGOTIATE EVERYTHING.

WE'RE HOPEFULLY WITH THE MESSAGE THAT WAS WENT AND THE SEATS WE PICKED UP, WE OBVIOUSLY HAVE ADDITIONAL INFLUENCE, WHICH SHOULD HELP THE NEGOTIATING ISSUES, BUT I HAVE HAD A NUMBER OF DISCUSSIONS WITH SENATOR SCUTARI.

WE HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP.

AND LISTEN, YOU KNOW, WE ALWAYS HEAR ABOUT A LOT OF THE, YOU KNOW, FIGHTING AND THE PARTIES AGAINST EACH OTHER.

THERE'S ACTUALLY A LOT OF THINGS THAT HAVE TO GET DONE.

LISTEN, WE'RE ALL GOING TO HAVE OUR DIFFERENCE IN PRINCIPLES, DIFFERENT IDEAS, HOW WE TREAT EACH OTHER IS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT.

AND LISTEN, SENATOR SCUTARI AND I HAVE HAD MANY, MANY CONVERSATIONS, WE HAVE DINNER TOGETHER, AND WE DON'T ALWAYS AGREE ON EVERYTHING, BUT HE'S A PROFESSIONAL, AND THAT'S THE WAY WE'RE GOING TO -- AS WE'RE GOING TO TREAT IT AND I CONSIDER HIM A FRIEND, AS I CONSIDER SENATOR SWEENEY A FRIEND.

WE'RE ALL NEW JERSEYANS FIRST, AND I'M A CHRISTIAN FIRST TOO.

>> YEAH, I DON'T THINK WE'VE SEEN THE KIND OF RANCOR IN TRENTON THAT WE HAVE SEEN IN WASHINGTON SO FAR.

BUT GOVERNOR MURPHY NOMINATED MATH PLAQUEN, HIS FORMER CHIEF COUNSEL, TO BE ATTORNEY GENERAL ON THURSDAY.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT.

>> OBVIOUSLY, MATT'S VERY SMART.

I'VE DEALT WITH MATT PLATKIN IN THE PAST.

MATT'S OBVIOUSLY A VERY TALENTED, SMART INDIVIDUAL, BUT HE'S GOT TO GO BEFORE THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE.

THERE'S GOING TO BE -- AND WE HAVE MEMBERS, OBVIOUSLY, ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, FOUR MEMBERS, THAT WILL GIVE IT A GOOD REVIEW.

THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, SIGNIFICANT ISSUES THAT WERE DURING MATT'S TIME, OBVIOUSLY HAVE THE KATIE BRENNAN, YOU KNOW, SITUATION.

YOU HAVE THE, YOU KNOW, ALL THE EXECUTIVE ORDERS THAT WERE PUT IN PLACE WHILE MATT WAS THERE, AND MATT PROBABLY WROTE A LOT OF THEM.

SO, THERE'S A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF ISSUES THAT HAVE TO BE, YOU KNOW, VETTED, AND I'M GOING TOLY IT UP TO OUR MEMBERS ON THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE, AND I THINK THEY'LL DO A VERY THOROUGH JOB.

BUT OBVIOUSLY, MATT'S A SMART INDIVIDUAL, BUT IT CERTAINLY NEEDS TO BE REVIEWED, ESPECIALLY WITH THESE VERY SIGNIFICANT ISSUES THAT OCCURRED WHILE MATT WAS THERE.

>> YOU KNOW, SENATOR, I WISH WE COULD TALK SOME MORE.

WE'RE OUT OF TIME FOR NOW.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US, I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> MY PLEASURE.

THANKS, COLLEEN.

LET'S MOVE ON TO OUR PANEL OF REPORTERS, LILO STAINTON, MIKE SIMONS, AND FRED.

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF MURPHY'S NOMINATION OF PLATKIN?

WAS IT SURPRISING THAT HE DIDN'T CHOOSE ANDREW BROOK, WHO HAS BEEN DOING THE JOB FOR THE LAST SIX MONTHS?

>> PROBABLY NOT.

GOVERNORS, WHEN THEY PICK AN ATTORNEY GENERAL, THEY WANT SOMETHING THEY FEEL VERY COMFORTABLE WITH AND MR. PLATKIN HAS BEEN WITH MURPHY ALL THE TIME BUT I NOTICED RIGHT OFF THE BAT, SENATOR OROHO TOUCHED ON IT, SOME OF THE QUOTE, UNQUOTE PROBLEMS, HE MENTIONED THE KATIE BRENNAN CASE, AND I NOTICED SENATOR CURADO HAS BEEN SOMEWHAT CRITICAL OF MATT PLATKIN ALREADY, AND I THINK IF YOU THINK THAT, IT MAY SEEM LIKE ANCIENT HISTORY NOW BECAUSE THAT WAS PRE-PANDEMIC, BUT THERE WERE THOSE VARIOUS -- MANY, MANY HEARINGS BY A LEGISLATIVE COMMITTEE OF BOTH THE SENATE AND THE ASSEMBLY, AND MATT PLATKIN DID NOT COME OUT VERY WELL IN THOSE HEARINGS, IN MY OPINION.

I WENT TO MOST OF THEM.

HE KIND OF SEEMED TO BE THE GUY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE VIEWPOINT THAT THE GOVERNOR SHOULD NOT BE TOLD ABOUT WHAT ALLEGEDLY HAPPENED TO KATIE BRENNAN, AND I THINK THAT -- THAT ANNOYED PEOPLE ON THE COMMITTEE ON BOTH SIDES.

SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S GOING TO BE AN ISSUE GOING FORWARD.

>> WE DID HEAR SOME CRITICISM FROM KATIE BRENNAN ON THURSDAY, BUT WE ALSO HEARD HEAPS OF PRAISE FOR MATT PLATKIN.

HOW DO YOU THINK HIS CONFIRMATION PROCESS WILL GO?

>> I MEAN, I THINK IT WILL BE THOROUGH, BECAUSE THE SENATORS ON THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE TAKE THE JOB SERIOUSLY, SO I THINK THAT THEY'LL ASK ALL THE QUESTIONS, I WOULD HOPE AT LEAST.

S SO, I DON'T THINK IT WILL BE -- I DON'T THINK THERE WILL BE RANCOR, TO USE THE WORD THAT YOU USED EARLIER, BUT I THINK THAT THEY'LL ASK TOUGH QUESTIONS AND WE'LL SEE HOW MANY OF THEM WIND UP GETTING ANSWERED.

>> SO, MURPHY'S NOMINATION OF PLATKIN COMES AS THE REPUBLICANS AND ONE DEMOCRAT SO FAR SEEK TO CHECK THE GOVERNOR'S POWERS.

LILO, CAN YOU BRING US UP TO DATE ON MURPHY'S LATEST EMERGENCY DECLARATION, WHAT IT DID, AND HOW PEOPLE FEEL ABOUT IT?

>> YEAH.

I WILL DO MY BEST, BECAUSE IT IS A COMPLEX HISTORY AND I'LL BE INTERESTED TO SEE WHAT SENATOR SCUTARI AND OTHERS ON THAT COMMITTEE HAVE TO SAY.

THE QUESTIONS THEY ASK ABOUT THESE EXECUTIVE ORDERS.

BECAUSE A LOT OF THIS POWER THAT THE -- FIRST OF ALL, WE HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND THAT NEW JERSEY'S GOVERNOR IS THE STRONGEST, I BELIEVE, IN THE NATION.

IT'S THE ONLY STATEWIDE OFFICE THAT IS ELECTED, SO, YOU KNOW, HE APPOINTS EVERYBODY, INCLUDING THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.

YOU KNOW, SO, THAT MAKES THAT OFFICE AND THAT SEAT VERY POWERFUL ON ITS OWN.

BEFORE YOU HAVE ANY PANDEMIC OR EMERGENCY.

MARCH 9th, 2020, WHEN THEY ISSUED AN EXECUTIVE ORDER -- I BELIEVE IT WAS 103 -- THAT THEY DECLARED BOTH A PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY, WHICH HAD TO BE RENEWED EVERY 30 DAYS, WHICH HE CONTINUED TO DO, AND ALSO A STATE OF EMERGENCY, AND -- OR A STATE OF EMERGENCY, I GUESS.

AND THEY'RE TWO DIFFERENT SORT OF -- THEY USED TWO DIFFERENT STATUTES.

ONE ALLOWED SORT OF BROAD GOVERNMENTAL POWERS, INCLUDING THINGS LIKE TAKING OVER -- COMMANDEERING VEHICLES OR FACILITIES, SOMETHING THEY NEVER DID.

BUT THE PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY ALLOWS, YOU KNOW, FLEXIBILITY AROUND HOSPITALS.

A LOT OF IT IS HOW AGENCIES DO THEIR BUSINESS, BUT YOU KNOW, IT'S MOSTLY ABOUT INCREASING FLEXIBILITY TO ALLOW THE SYSTEM TO REACT.

THAT CONTINUED BASICALLY UNTIL JUNE 2021.

WHEN THEY PULLED BACK THE PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY BUT KEPT THE OTHER, AND THEN IN JANUARY, MURPHY WENT TO THE LEGISLATURE AND SAID, SO MANY THINGS DEPEND ON THIS PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY AND STATE OF EMERGENCY, WILL YOU REENACT SOME OF THESE?

WHEN THEY SAID NO, HE DECIDED TO GO ON HIS OWN AND REINSTATE THE PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY, SO NOW WE'RE BACK TO TWO, AND AGAIN, THE PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY HAS TO BE UPPED IN, YOU KNOW, WOULD HAVE TO BE RENEWED IN A FEW DAYS, AND IT'S NOT CLEAR IF HE'S GOING TO DO THAT.

AND I THINK, AS YOU'VE BEEN HEARING, PATIENCE -- PUBLIC PATIENCE WITH THIS IS DEFINITELY WEARING THIN.

>> MIKE, WHAT ARE THE ODDS, DO YOU THINK, OF THE LEGISLATURE PASSING SOME SORT OF MEASURE TO LIMIT THE EMERGENCY POWERS?

MURPHY WOULD HAVE TO SIGN IT, WOULDN'T HE?

AND AFTER LAST YEAR'S ATTEMPT FELL APART, I MEAN, WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN IN TRENTON THIS YEAR?

>> SO, I THINK IT, IN PART, DEPENDS ON WHAT HAPPENS NEXT WEEK.

I MEAN, AS LILO WAS MENTIONING, THE CURRENT PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY WILL NEED TO BE RENEWED, AND COULD EXPIRE ON ITS OWN.

I THINK THURSDAY IS THE DAY THAT THERE WOULD NEED TO BE A RENEWAL OR NOT.

THE NUMBER OF NEW, KNOWN INFECTIONS IS DOWN BY 86% FROM ITS PEAK ON JANUARY 10th, WHICH WAS RIGHT AROUND THE TIME THAT THE PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY WAS REINSTATED.

SO, YOU KNOW, THE TRENDS HAVE CHANGED AND THE CONDITIONS HAVE CHANGED, AND SO, IF, YOU KNOW, IF THE PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY STAYS ANYWAY, IF IT TURNS OUT THAT BEHIND THE SCENES HE'S NOT NECESSARILY BEING RECEPTIVE TO INPUT FROM LAWMAKERS, THEN MAYBE IT WILL CHANGE THE CALCULUS, BUT AS YOU WERE SAYING, IT WOULD HAVE TO PASS PRETTY OVERWHELMINGLY IF THEY WERE TO EVEN PASS THAT LAW AND THEN OVERCOME THE POTENTIAL VETO, SO IT WOULD BE A PRETTY LONG PROCESS, SO STEP ONE, SEE WHAT HAPPENS THURSDAY.

>> SO, AS MIKE JUST NOTED, CASES ARE DROPPING, HOSPITALIZATIONS DROPPING TOO.

LILO, DO WE STILL NEED COVID RESTRICTIONS IN PLACE?

>> WELL, IT'S A -- THAT'S SUCH AN INTERESTING QUESTION.

I THINK PUBLIC, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC APPETITE FOR THESE IS CLEARLY DIMINISHED, RIGHT?

AT ONE POINT, WE WERE -- EVERYBODY SEEMED WILLING TO DO SOMETHING TO STOP THE SPREAD, AND NOW THERE'S A REAL QUESTION OF WHAT MAKES SENSE, RIGHT?

WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO?

WHAT SHOULD WE BE DOING?

THERE ARE ACTUALLY NOT AS MANY RESTRICTIONS IN PLACE NOW AS SOMETIMES IT SEEMS.

UNLESS YOU ARE, YOU KNOW, A HEALTHCARE WORKER IN AN INSTITUTION LIKE A HOSPITAL OR A NURSING HOME OR WORK IN CORRECTIONS OR CERTAIN NUMBER OF OTHER FIELDS, BUT THERE ARE VACCINE MANDATES FOR THOSE FOLKS, AND THERE ARE, OF COURSE, ALSO FOR EDUCATORS, BUT THERE'S THE TESTING OPTION FOR THOSE FOLKS, AND THEN THERE'S, OF COURSE, THE VERY CONTROVERSIAL SCHOOL MASK MANDATES.

SO OTHER THAN, YOU KNOW, SCHOOLS, HOSPITALS, AND CORRECTIONS FACILITIES AND THE LIST GOES ON, YOU KNOW, THE GENERAL PUBLIC SHOULDN'T BE FEELING THE MANDATES RIGHT NOW.

BUT THAT SAID, DO WE NEED THEM?

THAT REALLY COMES TO OUR APPETITE FOR HOW WE WANT -- WHAT DO WE -- WHAT ARE WE WILLING TO ACCEPT WITH THIS DISEASE?

AND THAT'S SORT OF A BIGGER QUESTION.

>> YEAH, SO, AS YOU NOTED, AND I THINK THE SENATOR CALLED IT COVID EXHAUSTION, POLLING AND ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE BOTH POINT TO THE PUBLIC REALLY BEING TIRED OF THIS AND SAYING, MAYBE COVID IS SOMETHING WE NEED TO JUST START LIVING WITH.

>> YEAH.

>> LILO, ARE WE MOVING FROM PANDEMIC TO ENDEMIC, AND IF SO, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

>> RIGHT.

RIGHT.

WELL, WHAT IT MEANS IS, THINK ABOUT THE FLU AND NOT AS IN COVID IS LIKE THE FLU, BUT THE FLU IS AN ENDEMIC DISEASE, RIGHT?

IT'S A -- IT IS WITH US ALL THE TIME.

WE KNOW IT KILLS PEOPLE.

WE KNOW IT MAKES HOSPITALS FILL UP WITH PATIENTS WHO ARE OLDER AND MORE AT RISK EVERY YEAR, AND WE HAVE ACCEPTED THAT, BASICALLY.

WE ARE NOT WILLING TO MASK CHILDREN IN SCHOOLS OR, YOU KNOW, SHUT DOWN MOVIE THEATERS OR SOMETHING TO CONTROL THE FLU AT THIS POINT.

SO, WE HAVE TO THINK OF COVID THE SAME WAY, AND AS OUR EDITOR LOVES TO POINT OUT, THAT MEANS DECIDING HOW MANY DEATHS, HOSPITALIZATIONS, YOU KNOW, SICKNESSES YOU'RE WILLING TO LIVE WITH.

AND YOU KNOW, IS 100 DEATHS A MONTH OKAY?

WHAT IS THE NUMBER THAT WE'RE GOING TO SAY, OKAY, YOU KNOW, THAT'S ACCEPTABLE AND WE CONTROL IT WHEN IT SPIKES, AND WE BASICALLY LIVE WITH THE DISEASE, AND THAT'S WHAT LIVING WITH THE DISEASE IS.

IF THERE'S QUESTIONS ABOUT MASKING AND WHAT WOULD BE NECESSARY, BUT THAT'S -- WHEN WE GET BOOSTED, BUT YOU KNOW, THAT'S ALL SORT OF THE MECHANICS.

THE REAL QUESTION IS, WHAT ARE WE WILLING TO TOLERATE?

>> WELL, LET'S MOVE FROM COVID TO NEWS.

WE HAD SOME SIGNIFICANT NEWS THIS WEEK REGARDING THE REDRAWING OF CONGRESSIONAL AND LEGISLATIVE DISTRICTS.

FIRST, THE STATE SUPREME COURT ON THURSDAY DISMISSED THE COMPLAINT BY THE REPUBLICAN MEMBERS OF THE CONGRESSIONAL REDISTRICTING COMMISSION OVER THE NEW MAP DRAWN BY DEMOCRATS.

FRED, WHAT DID THE COURT SAY?

>> WELL, BASICALLY, THE COURT JUST SAID THAT -- I THINK THE PROBLEM WAS, I THINK, THE ORIGINAL PROBLEM WAS WHEN JOHN WALLACE MADE HIS ORIGINAL DECISION, IT WAS KIND OF -- HE SAID SIMPLY THAT HE PICKED THE DEMOCRATIC MAP BECAUSE THE REPUBLICAN MAPS HAD WON TEN YEARS AGO, AND THAT TYPE OF LOGIC SEEMS TO BE NO LOGIC AT ALL.

THAT PROMPTED THE REPUBLICANS TO FILE SUIT WITH THE COURT, AND THE COURT ASKED WALLACE, BASICALLY, ESSENTIALLY, TO EXPLAIN HIMSELF.

AND THEN, HE EXPLAINED HIMSELF, AND HIS EXPLANATION, NOT SURPRISINGLY, I WOULD SAY, SATISFIED THE COURT.

I MEAN, HIS EXPLANATION WAS THAT HE DID NOT SIMPLY PICK THE DEMOCRATIC MAP BECAUSE THE REPUBLICANS WON LAST TIME.

HE SAID THE DEMOCRATIC MAP WAS BETTER IN TERMS OF, IT WAS -- IT SEEMED TO BE LESS PARTISAN.

IT WAS LESS PARTISAN, IN THEORY, AT LEAST, THAN THE REPUBLICAN MAP, SO ESSENTIALLY THAT'S WHAT THE COURT SAID.

SO THAT'S THE MAP WE'RE GOING TO LIVE IN FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS.

>> MIKE, WHAT RECOURSE DO THE REPUBLICANS HAVE NOW, IF ANY?

CAN THEY GO FURTHER WITH THE CHALLENGE?

DO YOU EXPECT THEM TO DO THAT?

>> I HAVEN'T SPOKEN TO THEM, SO I'M NOT SURE.

YOU KNOW, THEY WOULD HAVE OPPORTUNITIES TO PURSUE DIFFERENT ISSUES IN COURT IF THEY CHOSE TO.

I MEAN, THE ARGUMENTS THAT THEY WERE MAKING WEREN'T NECESSARILY THEIR ONLY ONES.

SO, THEY COULD.

I DON'T KNOW IF THEY WILL.

AT THIS POINT, AS I WAS JOKING WITH SOMEBODY, THEY SHOULD PUT WALLACE ON THEIR LIST OF TIEBREAKERS FOR TEN YEARS FROM NOW IF THE MAP'S JUST GOING TO TRADE BACK AND FORTH EVERY TEN YEARS.

>> THAT'S A GREAT PLAN.

>> THERE WAS ANOTHER LOSS IN COURT THIS WEEK.

THIS ONE BY FORMER SENATE PRESIDENT STEVE SWEENEY, WHO WAS TRYING TO REGAIN HIS SEAT FROM THE LEGISLATIVE APPORTIONMENT COMMISSION.

FRED, WHAT HAPPENED THERE?

>> WELL, I THINK IT WAS PRETTY SIMPLE.

I MEAN, FROM LEROY JONES, WHO'S THE CHAIRMAN, REPLACED STEVE SWEENEY ON APPORTIONMENT COMMISSION.

NOW, SWEENEY'S ARGUED OR AT LEAST HIS ATTORNEYS ARGUED THAT HE WAS APPOINTED TO A FIXED TERM, BUT THE OTHER SIDE, BASICALLY, THE DEMOCRATIC COMMITTEE SAID, NO.

IT REALLY ISN'T A FIXED TERM.

AND HE SERVES AT THE PLEASURE OF THE CHAIRMAN.

AND THE JUDGE ESSENTIALLY ACCEPTED THAT ARGUMENT.

SO, SWEENEY IS OUT, AND I THINK THAT'S -- BESIDES THE LEGAL STUFF, IT'S STILL REALLY AMAZING WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT.

TWO MONTHS AGO, BEFORE THE ELECTION, SWEENEY WAS ONE OF THE MOST -- PROBABLY THE SECOND MOST POWERFUL DEMOCRAT IN THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY, AND NOW HE'S BASICALLY OUT IN THE COLD, SO TO SPEAK.

>> MIKE, YOU COVERED THE COMMISSION MEETING ON WEDNESDAY.

THERE WAS THIS FAIR DISTRICTS COALITION THAT PROPOSED ITS OWN MAP OF NEW LEGISLATIVE DISTRICTS FOR CONSIDERATION.

WHAT WOULD THAT DO, AND WHAT'S THE LIKELIHOOD OF ANY PART OF IT WINNING COMMISSION SUPPORT?

>> YOU KNOW, BOTH PARTIES PROFESS THAT THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE IT INTO ACCOUNT.

I MEAN, IT WAS, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF WORK WENT INTO IT.

IT WAS QUITE THOROUGH.

SOMETIMES PEOPLE PROPOSE A MAP FOR JUST THEIR PART OF THE STATE, BUT THIS WAS, YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE STATE FROM TOP TO BOTTOM, AND SO IT'S INTERESTING.

I MEAN, THERE ARE PARTS OF IT THAT YOU COULDN'T -- LIKE THEY COULDN'T ADOPT IT IN MASS, I DON'T THINK, BECAUSE THEY DIVIDE NEWARK INTO THREE DISTRICTS, AND IT CAN'T BE DIVIDED MORE THAN TWO WAYS, SO CERTAINLY, NOT THAT THEY WERE GOING TO TAKE IT AND ADOPT IT IN FULL, BUT SOME CHANGES WOULD HAVE TO BE MADE TO IT.

BUT THEY TOOK A LOT OF PUBLIC INPUT INTO IT.

THEY SUBMITTED THAT MAP AS WELL AS A LOT OF OTHER SMALLER MAPS FOR DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES OF INTEREST AS THEY'RE CALLED.

NEXT WEEK, DRAFT MAPS FROM BOTH PARTIES ARE GOING TO BE MADE PUBLIC, SO MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC ARE GOING TO HAVE A CHANCE TO HAVE INPUT ON TO THOSE SUGGESTED MAPS AND THOSE MAPS WOULDN'T BE THE FINAL ONES ANYWAY.

CHANGES WOULD BE MADE BASED ON THAT INPUT, BUT THAT'S A LEVEL OF TRANSPARENCY AND PUBLIC PARTICIPATION THAT YOU USUALLY ONLY SEE IN OTHER STATES.

>> GIVEN THAT THESE MAPS CAN BE POSTED ON MONDAY, IT IS A HUGE DEAL.

I THINK IT'S THE FIRST TIME EVER IN NEW JERSEY.

WHY HASN'T THAT HAPPENED BEFORE, THAT PEOPLE GET TO SEE THESE MAPS BEFORE A VOTE?

AND WHY IS THIS A BIG DEAL NOW?

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY, IT'S SOMETHING INTERESTING ABOUT IT TOO.

THEY'RE NOT GOING TO IDENTIFY -- THEY'RE NOT GOING TO SAY WHICH IS THE DEMOCRATIC MAP AND WHICH IS THE REPUBLICAN MAP.

I'M ASSUMING PEOPLE COULD -- WOULD CARE ABOUT THIS STUFF WILL BE ABLE TO GUESS AND PROBABLY GUESS CORRECTLY.

BUT I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE A LITTLE -- SORT OF LIKE A PUZZLE.

BUT ANYWAY, IN ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION, I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, LOT OF TIMES, PEOPLE JUST -- PART OF POLITICAL POWER IS KEEPING THINGS SECRET AND NOT TELLING PEOPLE WHAT'S GOING ON.

I THINK THAT'S ONE REASON THESE MAPS ARE NOT SORT OF MADE PUBLIC PREVIOUSLY.

LOOK AT THE CONGRESSIONAL MAP.

THE CONGRESSIONAL MAP, I THINK, THE DAY THAT IT WAS THEN REDISTRICTING COMMISSION APPROVED THE DEMOCRATIC MAP, THAT MAP STILL WASN'T ONLINE YET FOR A FEW HOURS.

I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S JUST SORT OF, I GUESS, THE CLOSE-KNIT WAY POLITICIANS LIKE DOING THINGS.

BUT IT IS A BIG DEAL.

AVERAGE PERSON MAY NOT CARE ABOUT THIS, BUT PEOPLE WHO DO ARE GOING TO PROBABLY LOOK AT THE MAPS ON MONDAY.

>> RIGHT.

WE DO.

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IT WAS REALLY GREAT TO SEE YOU ALL.

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