♪ >> Hello and welcome to the final episode of our second season of Canada Files .

I'm Jim Deeks.

I want to remind you that you can see all previous editions of our series on PBS.org and CanadaFiles.ca and YouTube.

Our guest on this finale is a Canadian legend.

An icon of popular music around the world for nearly 60 years, Gordon Lightfoot.

Now 82 years old, Gordon has a music legacy, probably unmatched in Canadian history.

It continues today with the recent release, of his 21st album called, Solo .

As a huge fan, it is truly a honour for me for this opportunity.

>> Gordon Lightfoot, it is such a pleasure to have you here on Canada Files .

And in person!

Thanks for joining us.

>> Thank you!

<< Most of our guests would be well-known to our American audience.

You must be the best-known Canadian who has never moved to the US and forged a career there.

That's my first question.

Why have you steadfastly stayed in Canada, and lived here in Toronto, even after you became a star in the mid 1960s?

>> It's not necessary to do that.

All my relatives and everybody was in this area.

Toronto and Orillia, a little town 80 miles north.

I was quite content to stay here.

I really love Canada.

I love my country.

>> You're invariably described as a Canadian songwriter.

Would you say most of your songs are Canadian?

Perhaps more so than some of your contemporaries like-- Joni Mitchell, Robbie Robertson, Neil Young.

All of whom moved to the US a long time ago.

>> Not particularly.

A lot of songs with a Canadian flavour to them.

The feel I got from being part of the folk revival by listening to people like Ian and Sylvia... Ramblin' Jack Elliott, Josh White Jr, Phil Ochs, Bob Dylan.

I was in that bag, not particularly Canadian.

But there were some areas where I did press into the Canadian theme.

Such as "The Canadian Railroad Trilogy".

It was done with a full orchestra and a Canadian theme right to the core.

Other tunes with a Canadian feel, from having the influence of the Maritimes on me.

Stompin' Tom Connors.

People like that were a primary influence.

He was a great writer.

Tom wrote 700-800 songs.

He was very Canadian.

It was my style.

I was kind of reserved.

Some people thought I was-- my manager used to say a little bit ornery.

Maybe not as easy to deal with as perhaps others.

A little on the feisty side.

>> Let's go back to the beginning.

As you mentionned, Orillia was your home, 80 miles north of Toronto.

You grew up there in the '40s and '50s.

I remember Orillia well.

Back in the 1950s, it was a sleepy town of 12,000 people.

Certainly not the kind of town you would expect a troubadour like Gordon Lightfoot to come out of.

Were you a musical child prodigy in Orillia in those days?

>> Orillia had a dance band.

When I was in high school, I got a job singing with them.

Before that, I got started when I was 4 - 5 years old.

I showed a certain musical aspiration.

Singing on my grandmother's kitchen table, surrounded by aunts and uncles, things like that.

I was encouraged.

I liked listening to the radio.

The first thing I listened to was classical music...Mozart.

Way back in my memories, I remember listening to Mozart.

Before anything I'd heard.

Almost like a gift from God.

It was there for me to indulge in.

>> As you got serious about your music, who were the early influences on the music that you began to create??

>> Who my parents loved.

Bing Crosby, for heaven's sake!

The first time I did a radio show in Orillia, I picked five of Bing Crosby's Irish-oriented songs he did.

It worked out quite well.

The next day, the music teacher told me I sounded a bit like a little frog when I sang on the radio.

My mother called her on the phone and gave her a piece of her mind about that.

>> Over the last 60 years, Canada has produced some of the biggest stars in the music business including yourself.

Back in the late 1950s, when you were in your formative years, there really weren't any famous Canadians.

Paul Anka, in the late '50s, started to get some airplay.

Canadian recording artists were few and far between.

Was it your ambition in the late 1950s that one day you'd be a famous recording artist?

<< Not really then.

I couldn't realize the possibility in my mind, of that actually happening.

I hadn't reached that point yet.

I hadn't started writing songs at that point.

>> You did start writing songs.

>> Who was the first big name to record a Gordon Lightfoot?

<< Hank Williams >> Okay...Ian and Sylvia.

>> They were big in Canada.

>> They were huge in the folk revival.

They had five albums.

>> Which was their Gordon Lightfoot song?

>> "For Loving Me", "Early Morning Rain" >> What that a huge thrill to hear your song on the radio performed by Ian and Sylvia?

>> They were with a US management firm who also managed Peter, Paul and Mary.

They passed the songs onto Peter, Paul and Mary.

"For Loving Me" went to No.

2 or 3 on the billboard charts.

I got offered a management contract.

One of the reasons it was not necessary to relocate to the US.

Toronto was a pretty big city then!

>> You started to get recognition for your own music on the radio in the mid 1960s with songs like "Early Morning Rain", "For Loving Me" recorded by you.

"Ribbon of Darkness" recorded by other artists.

"The Way I Feel".

How did you react to fame at that point?

You weren't an overnight sensation.

It was all quite quick that it started to happen for you.

How did you react at the time?

>> In 1967, the era you are talking about, I'd gotten a deal with United Artists.

I made five albums with them.

That period of time, came some of the songs you mention like, "The Way I Feel".

That's when I started getting the cover recordings.

I had no hit singles but lots of songs absorbed by everyone right up to Elvis Presley.

The first time I heard an Elvis Presley song by me, I was driving from my mother's house in my car, from Orillia to Toronto one Sunday.

I heard it on the radio.

I almost jumped out of the car.

>> Which one was it?

>> "Early Morning Rain".

But there were many, many other titles that got covered.

The one that hits me the biggest was "Black Day in July", About the Detroit riots that occurred in 1967.

Gordon Downey and Tragically Hip.

They did a wonderful version of that song.

So did I!

The record company released it as a single.

I didn't know if they should have done that.

It was very political.

I'm a Canadian.

Fortunately they banned it on CKLW in Windsor.

Which is right across the river from Detroit.

They said we can't play this because it's got a racial thing happening.

In those days, we didn't think about what they're thinking about today about racism.

I don't think people even know what it is!

>> Beyond those songs, getting into the 70s, you had a number of other hits.

Songs like "Beautiful" which I think is one of the most beautiful songs you've ever written.

"If You Could Read My Mind", "Sundown", "Carefree Highway", In 1975, "The Wreck of the Edmond Fitzgerald" It may have been your biggest hit.

One that's probably played the most on radio today.

That made you a worldwide star.

Those songs got you touring around the world.

Was this best time of your life?

You were kind of a homebody.

Would you have preferred to stay at home?

>> We always did 70 or 80 shows a year.

Always doing shows.

We travelled back and forth across America about 10 times.

>> Did you love it?

>> Sure!

We could do it in a way that was comfortable.

The first five years, it was not like that.

After it got comfortable, we looked forward to getting out there and doing it every time.

It would be done in segments-- 7 - 8 times a year.

We'd do 10 - 12 shows.

I had an agent who would book me any night of the week.

Monday through Sunday so we could work all the nights, if we wanted to.

Never had to spend any time laid up in hotel rooms.

It was all planned.

Still the same agent.

During the pandemic, we just keep rolling the dates forward.

We're doing it through pay television right now.

It's fun doing it that way!

>> Where do you most like to perform.

What kind of venues?

The coffee houses, concert halls or arenas?

>> I like so many so much, so many great cities.

I've done 70 shows in Massey Hall in Toronto.

Royal Albert Hall in London, I've played 4 or 5 times.

Festival Hall in London.

The one I love the most is the Universal Amphitheatre, in Los Angeles.

You get 5,000 people on those beautiful California nights.

I would go in for three or four nights.

We'd be sold out every night.

The feeling of doing those shows at the Universal Amphitheatre, Massey Hall, Royal Albert Hall.

Do you want to go to Alaska, Hawaii, Australia, Europe?

Yes we do!

We went to Britain many times.

>> Were there any performers that you liked to perform with, on-stage or on the same bill?

Did you prefer to go on stage solo with your guitar?

>> We shared with many people-- John Denver, Harry Chapin, James Taylor.

We did shows on the same bill.

I didn't get involved to the point where Kristofferson got reaction and became part of the act with Willy.

That was Kris!

>> As prolific as you have been in writing songs and performing to this day, you're so talented as a writer!

It's astounding that you didn't really have a big hit single after "The Edmond Fitzgerald" in the mid '70s.

You're still recording albums.

Did you get frustrated after that?

By the 1980s the merry-go-ground of hit-making stopped for you.

>> I figured I was lucky up to that point in time.

I kept working but it got more spaced out.

I got close with one called, "Baby Step Back".

Which I wrote on the golf course one day.

>> You're standing in my line.

Baby, step back?

>> Yeah, step back.

I want to putt.

>> I want to talk about your new album.

You're 82 year old!

Not many 82 year olds are recording albums.

You have just recorded and released a new album called, "Solo", your 21st album.

Tell us about that record.

>> That is what they call in studio material.

We found some stuff with great vocals...good songs.

I would have re-written the whole thing.

I thought about doing that but nobody is getting any younger.

I wondered if I wanted to put myself through that.

All of a sudden, boom!

The pandemic kicks in.

The in studio material sounded so good to me.

Let's just do it.

It's got a guitar and vocals.

One of the tunes, I could hear my left foot going.

They're all demos.

It's what they are.

>> So it's raw .

>> It's really in-studio raw material.

People listening to it could certainly learn how to play the guitar and use the five chords.

It explores everything I do on the guitar.

It will be quite educational.

For a lot of people who follow my work and try to find out how I go about doing it.

My tuning and cabling system that come into this.

They can learn from this record so I'm glad about that.

>> I bet you've done 60 years of learning.

I'm sure every album is just a step further than the last one.

Is that fair to say?

>> Yup.

>> Let's get off the stage and into your personal life.

I have never met anyone who has been publicly declared dead.

In your case, it has happened twice!

Not being facetious, the first time was in the fall of 2002.

That was a very serious episode in your life.

Tell us what happened then.

>> It's very fortunate that I'm talking to you today.

I was out of work for 28 months.

The main thing was I came out of it with another album.

When all was said and done, I was back on tour on the road.

For the last 10 years, we've been doing 75 - 80 shows a year, Since about 2010!

I beat it.

I got over it.

It was an aortal aneurism.

>> Did that experience have a profound effect on your approach to life?

>> No.

I remember 6 weeks and I don't remember anything .

>> Assuming you will depart this earth sometime, how do you think you would like to be remembered by the world.

Not your family-- How would you like the Gordon Lightfoot legacy to sound?

>> I would like to be remembered as a decent individual.

End of story.

>> You've won so many awards and honours.

You've been awarded the Order of Canada, which is our country's highest honour.

You've been elected to the Canadian Music Hall of Fame.

You're in the National Songwriters Hall of Fame in NY.

Your songs have been recorded by most of the big recording artists of the last 50 years.

Is there one award or honour that stands out for you?

>> Order of Canada, being received by Roland Michener.

Getting to meet Pierre and Margaret Trudeau.

And Justin, just a boy of eight, our present prime minister.

Working on Canada Day celebrations in Ottawa.

We had so many great things to do.

It was unbelievable.

>> I don't think there's a Canadian artist that's been more honoured than you have.

>> Let me move to another section of this interview.

I know my audience would think me very remiss if I didn't ask a few questions.

I want to go through a rapid-fire round-- of things we may not know about Gordon Lightfoot.

Your favourite Gordon Lightfoot song, recorded by you?

>> "If You Could Read My Mind" >> Your favourite Gordon Lightfoot song, recorded by somebody else?

>> Ian and Sylvia, "Early Morning Rain" >> That's going back to about 1962.

Your favourite male performer?

>> Bob Dylan >> Your favourite female performer?

>> Judy Collins >> Your favourite group?

>> I really love The Band.

They were one of my all-time favourites.

>> Your favourite kind of music that you listen to, other than folk and pop?

>> With Drake living across the street, I've been listening to more hip-hop.

They write great songs.

They do!

>> The lyrics of hip-hop are amazing.

>> Who's your best friend in the music business?

>> Bob Dylan.

>> Your favourite place to be?

>> On-stage at Massey Hall.

It is.

It's big!

>> No surprise.

You've played there over 70 times.

What comes first when you're writing a song-- the melody or the lyrics?

>> First the chords and chord progression.

There are two or three ways of starting.

Sometimes you can start with just a title.

I did a lot of that.

If you're going to feel your way into it, first the chord progression, then the melody.

Then a marriage takes place between the lyrics and melody.

>> Tell us something interesting about Gordon Lightfoot that few people know.

>> I'm a wilderness adventurer.

I have participated in and organized ten expeditions into the sub-Arctic of Canada ...by canoe.

Ten different trips over 17 years.

>> The last question is one I ask all our Canada Files guests.

I would really be interested in hearing your response.

What does being Canadian mean to you?

>> It means I love the place and I don't want to leave it!

>> That's it?

>> Yes.

>> Gordon, it's been a delight to talk to you.

Thank you for 60 years of making Canadians really proud.

>> Thank you too, for joining us on Canada Files.

And for your support during this season.

We hope we'll see you next time.

Until then, stay well and safe.

Be kind to each other.

See you next time.

♪