>>> THE FIGHT OVER TRANSGENDER RIGHTS COMES TO A HEAD AT THE STATE HOUSE.

♪♪ >>> WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD."

GOVERNOR DeWINE SAID THIS WEEK HE REMAINS COMMITTED TO LAST WEEK'S VETO OF A BILL THAT WOULD HAVE RESTRICTED TRANSGENDER RIGHTS FOR MINORS.

HE VETOED A BILL THAT WOULD HAVE BANNED DOCTORS FROM PERFORMING MANY FORMS OF GENDER-AFFIRMING CARE FOR MINORS AND WOULD HAVE BANNED TRANSGENDER GIRLS FROM PARTICIPATING ON FEMALE SPORTS TEAMS IN HIGH SCHOOL AND IN COLLEGE.

SUPPORTERS OF THE MEASURE CLAIM TRANSGENDER CARE FOR MINORS CAN CAUSE PERMANENT DAMAGE AND ALLOWING TRANS GIRLS TO PARTICIPATE ON FEMALE TEAMS IS UNFAIR.

OPPONENTS OF THE BAN SAY IT WOULD PREVENT TRANSGENDER TEENS FROM GETTING LIFESAVING CARE.

THE GOVERNOR SAID IT WAS NOT AN EASY DECISION.

HE MET WITH HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONALS AS WELL AS TRANSGENDER PEOPLE AND THEIR FAMILIES AND EVENTUALLY SIDED WITH THEM.

>> I HAVE STATED MY POSITION I THINK VERY, VERY CLEARLY, THAT THIS IS A QUESTION OF THE PARENTS SHOULD BE INVOLVED, NOT THE STATE OF OHIO, NOT THE GOVERNMENT.

THESE ARE VERY DIFFICULT, VERY TOUGH DECISIONS THAT PARENTS ARE INVOLVED IN.

THEY'RE THE ONES WHO LIVE WITH THE CHILD.

THEY'RE THE ONES WHO RAISE THE CHILD.

THEY'RE THE ONES WHO LOVE THE CHILD.

THEY'RE THE ONES WHO SHOULD MAKE THE MEDICAL DECISIONS IN CONSULTATION WITH THE BEST DOCTORS THEY CAN FIND.

THAT'S WHAT PARENTS HAVE GIVEN ME.

>> THE GOVERNOR ISSUED AN EXECUTIVE ORDER BANNING TRANSGENDER SURGERIES FOR MINORS, SOMETHING OHIO HOSPITALS SAY IS NOT HAPPENING.

DeWINE SAYS THIS ORDER WILL ENSURE THAT IT DOESN'T HAPPEN.

JULIE CARR SMYTH, IT APPEARS THE GOVERNOR IS TRYING TO EASE THE CONCERNS OF THOSE WHO SUPPORT THE BAN.

MAYBE AND PERHAPS TRYING TO AVOID THE OVERRIDE.

IS HE MAKING PROGRESS, DO WE KNOW?

>> I THINK IT'S STILL UNCLEAR WHETHER HE'S MAKING PROGRESS, YOU KNOW PREDICTING THE OHIO HOUSE THIS ENTIRE SESSION HAS BEEN VERY DIFFICULT BECAUSE THE REPUBLICANS CAUCUS IS SPLIT.

BUT WHAT I DO THINK IS IS THAT YOU'RE RIGHT, HE'S TRYING TO TAKE REALLY THE MOST HOT-BUTTON ISSUE OF THIS OFF THE TABLE.

AFTER HE VETOED THAT BILL LAST WEEK, WE SAW MOST OF THE PUSHBACK IS AROUND WHAT OPPONENTS CALL GENDER MUTILATION AND DANGEROUS, LIFE-CHANGING SURGERIES THAT THEY SAY CAN'T EVER BE REVERSED.

THAT'S, YOU KNOW, A REAL TALKING POINT ON THE RIGHT.

AND THE PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT IT OBVIOUSLY SAY THAT, ONE, IT'S NOT HAPPENING FOR MINORS, AND ALSO THAT IT SHOULD BE A FAMILY'S CHOICE.

>> JESSE, HOW MANY DOES HE NEED, THREE, FOUR VOTES TO PREVENT AN OVERRIDE?

IT DOES PASS WITH A VETO-PROOF MAJORITY.

>> YEAH.

IT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING BECAUSE THE HOUSE IS COMING BACK A LITTLE BIT EARLY.

SO THE QUESTION WILL BE IS EVERYONE THERE, SO ARE PEOPLE BACK FROM THEIR HOLIDAY VACATIONS?

BUT ALSO WHETHER THIS REPUBLICAN CAUCUS THAT'S BEEN FRACTURED REALLY -- IS THE SPEAKER'S VOTE GOING TO HOLD ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE.

THEY OBVIOUSLY DID THE FIRST TIME AROUND BUT OVERRIDE VOTES ARE DIFFERENT FROM INITIAL VOTES.

>> THESE ARE LOGICAL REASONS FOR WHY HE VETOED IT.

HE'S SAYING GOVERNMENT SHOULD NOT BE INVOLVED IN PERSONAL HEALTH CARE DECISIONS.

DOES THAT OUTWEIGH THE CULTURAL CONCERNS THAT FOLKS WHO ARE OPPOSED TO TRANSGENDER, GENDER-AFFIRMING CARE HAVE?

>> LET'S BE CLEAR.

MIKE DeWINE DOES NOT HAVE AN ELECTION IN FRONT OF HIM AGAIN.

I THINK HE'S LOOKING AT HIS LEGACY.

IT'S NOT JUST A CONSERVATIVE ISSUE.

LARGE MAJORITIES OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC ARE AGAINST GENITAL MUTILATION AND CASTRATION FOR CHILDREN.

THE ORDER SUGGESTS HE'S TRY TO GET BACK IN STEP.

THE LARGER QUESTION IS WHETHER WE CAN GET ENOUGH VOTES TO OVERRIDE THE VETO IN BOTH HOUSES, AND I THINK IT'S MORE ABOUT WHETHER YOU CAN GET THEM TO SHOW UP OR WHETHER YOU CAN GET THE VOTES.

>> THE GOVERNOR ADMITS THE PERMANENT CHANGES, GENDER-AFFIRMING CARE, THEY'RE NOT HAPPENING IN OHIO HOSPITALS.

>> IF THAT'S NOT TRUE, NO ONE SHOULD BE OPPOSED TO STOPPING IT.

CHEMICAL CASTRATION IS HAPPENING AND THAT AFFECTS THE ABILITY OF THE CHILD TO GO UP AND BE ABLE >> THE BLOCKERS -- >> YEAH, WHEN YOU'RE GIVING SOMEONE CHEMICALS TO, QUOTE/UNQUOTE STOP PUBERTY YOU'RE AFFECTING THE BODIES IN WAYS WE DON'T KNOW WHO, THAT MEAN IN EUROPE ARE COMES TO GRIPS WITH HAVING ALLOWED IT SEVERAL YEARS AGO AND TRYING TO STOP IT.

>> IT CAN BE RESUMED, BUT THERE ARE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT KIND OF PERMANENT DAMAGE THOSE PUBERTY BLOCKERS DO TO YOUNG PEOPLE AS THEY BECOME ADULTS AND MAYBE, PERHAPS, GETS OFF THEM.

DERRICK, WHAT -- DEMOCRATS ARE HOPEFUL -- ARE THEY WILLING TO COMPROMISE WITH THE GOVERNOR ON THESE ORDERS?

LIKE BANNING THE SURGERIES, COLLECTING DATA, ONE OF THE THINGS HE WANTS TO DO.

>> I THINK DEMOCRATS ARE JUST SITTING BACK TO SEE WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THIS VETO, POTENTIAL VETO OVERRIDE THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN PROBABLY NEXT WEEK.

YOU KNOW, THE HOUSE WAS NOT EVEN SCHEDULED TO BE IN SESSION.

THEY WERE ORIGINALLY SUPPOSED TO COME BACK ON THE 24th.

BUT BECAUSE OF -- BECAUSE OF THE VETO FROM THE GOVERNOR, NOW THE HOUSE IS SCHEDULED TO COME BACK ON THE 10th WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS THEN.

>> HE WANTS TO COLLECT GREAT ON GENDER-AFFIRMING CARE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK HE'S TRYING TO DO THERE, JULIE?

>> THERE'S A PRETTY BIPARTISAN AGREEMENT THAT LITTLE IS KNOWN ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE, AND THE IDEA IS LET'S HAVE SOME DECENT STATISTICS.

IF IT IS INDEED TRUE THAT THIS ISN'T HAPPENING AT ALL IN OHIO HOSPITALS, YOU KNOW, LET'S SEE THE NUMBERS.

LET'S SEE THE NUMBERS OF WHAT HAPPENS WHEN PEOPLE HAVE THE CARE, HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE DECIDING TO REVERSE THAT, OR BEGIN THE PROCESS AND DON'T COMPLETE IT.

LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU'RE AN ADULT.

AND IT JUST TO BE MORE INFORMED.

I THINK THAT I CAN IMAGINE THE -- THE PUSHBACK FROM THE COMMUNITY, MAYBE THIS IS SORT OF GOVERNMENT TRACKING OF SOMETHING THAT -- THAT CAN BE A HOT-BUTTON ISSUE.

OBVIOUSLY WE WERE SEEING LGBTQ FOLKS TARGETED AROUND THE COUNTRY IN A LOT OF CASES.

>> YEAH.

THE GOVERNOR PROMISES THAT IDENTITIES WOULD BE PROTECTED.

THIS WAS JUST SIMPLE DATA THAT THEY WOULD BE COLLECTING AS TO HOW MANY YOUNG PEOPLE GET GENDER-AFFIRMING CARE, HOW MANY ADULTS GET SURGERY, THAT SORT OF THING.

WE'RE ALL ANECDOTE.

WE -- WE REALLY DON'T KNOW.

WOULDN'T THIS HELP BOTH SIDES?

>> DATA'S ALWAYS FINE.

THERE'S ALREADY DATA OUT THERE THAT SUGGESTS THAT MOST CHILDREN WHO ARE GENDER CONFUSED IF LEFT FOR WATCHFUL WAITING WILL EVENTUALLY RESUME LIVING THE LIFE OF THE GENDER THAT THEIR BIOLOGY GIVES THEM.

SO THAT DATA'S OUT THERE.

MORE DATA'S FINE.

I THINK WE'LL FIND THAT THAT SAME IS TRUE IN OHIO AS IT IS IN OTHER PLACES.

>> THE HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS AND ADVOCATES ARGUE THAT MANY YOUNG PEOPLE WHO GO THROUGH THIS END UP KILLING THEMSELVES, TAKING THEIR OWN LIVES, BECAUSE OF THE ANXIETY AND DEPRESSION -- >> KILL THEMSELVES, IF THEY DO GO THROUGH IT, THERE'S A DEEP PROBLEM THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED AND IT'S NOT ADDRESSED BY CUTTING OFF BODY PARTS.

>> AND MARK'S POINT WOULD BE BETTER BACKED UP IF WE HAD SOME EMPIRICAL DATA I THINK THAT'S NEUTRAL, COMING FROM THE STATE, THAT'S BEING REQUIRED CONSISTENTLY AND OVER TIME.

I THINK THAT'S THE GOVERNOR'S POINT.

>> YES.

>> YOU KNOW, TO MARK'S POINT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE SUICIDES THAT HAPPEN WITH THIS, I REALLY THINK THAT THE -- THE GOVERNOR AND THE LEGISLATURE NEED TO BE THINKING MORE ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH CARE.

THAT'S REALLY WHERE WE SHOULD BE PUTTING OUR EFFORTS RIGHT NOW IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S PROPER MENTAL HEALTH CARE FOR PEOPLE IN OUR STATE.

>> PART OF THE GOVERNOR'S ORDERS, HE WANTS TO MAKE SURE THAT PSYCHIATRISTS ARE INVOLVED IN THE GENDER-AFFIRMING CARE, AS WELL AS THE PRESCRIBERS OF MEDICINE.

>> YEAH.

THIS PRESS CONFERENCE WAS JUST A LITTLE BIT AGO, AND SO I THINK WE'RE STILL LOOKING FOR A LOT OF THE DETAILS.

BUT ONE OF THE PROPOSALS OR THE CHANGES WOULD BE TO REQUIRE A NUMBER OF MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS TO WEIGH IN INCLUDING LIKE A BIOETHICIST EVEN IN CASES OF ADULTS WHO ARE TRANSITIONING, AND SO WE'LL HAVE TO SEE WHAT ALL THAT LOOKS LIKE.

>> MARK, YOU MENTIONED THE GOVERNOR IS NOT RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION.

IS HE ALLOWED NOW TO VETO HIS CONSCIENCE?

HE'S DONE IT TWICE, ONE WITH THE FAVORITE TOBACCO PRODUCTS AND NOW WITH THE TRANSGENDER HEALTH CARE.

>> HE'S AN INTERESTING GUY, THE GOVERNOR, BECAUSE HE'S ALWAYS BEEN POLITICALLY SAVVY ABOUT WHAT PLAYS IN OHIO.

HE'S PROBABLY TRAVELED THE STATE MORE THAN ANY LIVING POLITICIAN, KNOWS STATE PRETTY WELL.

HE ALSO IS LOOKING AT HIS LEGACY.

SO THOSE OF US WHO KNOW MIKE DeWINE AND LIKE HIM, WE'RE NOT SURPRISED THAT HE DID THIS.

>> BUT IF THE VETO GETS OVERRIDDEN, DOES THAT HURT HIS LEGACY.

>> >> I DON'T THINK SO BECAUSE HE WILL BE ABLE TO SEE I MADE MY DECISION, THE LEGISLATURE MADE THEIRS.

AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, THE VAST MAJORITY OF OHIOANS OPPOSE GENITAL MUTILATION AND CHEMICAL CASTRATION FOR CHILDREN.

IT'S THE LEFT WHERE YOU SEE SUPPORT, NOT AMONG INDEPENDENTS AND CERTAINLY NOT AMONGST CONSERVATIVES.

>> HE DID GO OUT AND LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE, HE LISTENED TO THE PARENTS, HE LISTENED TO THE MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS.

AND I THINK THAT THAT WAS PART OF THE REASON WHY HE MADE THE DECISION THAT HE MADE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

OHIO HAS HAD TERM LIMITS FOR ITS STATE LAWMAKERS FOR NEARLY 30 YEARS.

STATE ELECTED OFFICIALS ARE LIMITED TO BASICALLY EIGHT YEARS IN OFFICE.

STATEWIDE OFFICES LIKE GOVERNOR GET TWO FOUR-YEAR TERMS.

LIKEWISE, STATE SENATORS GET TWO TERMS.

STATE REPS GET FOUR TWO-YEAR TERMS.

FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER LARRY HOUSEHOLDER, NOW IN PRISON, WANTED TO DO AWAY WITH THEM.

THAT DIDN'T WORK OUT.

NOW CURRENT HOUSE SPEAKER JASON STEPHENS HAS FLOATED THE IDEA.

DERRICK CLAY, DO TERM LIMITS WORK?

>> WELL, IT DEPENDS ON WHO YOU ASK.

RIGHT?

TERM LIMITS WERE BROUGHT TO OUR STATE IN THE EARLY '90s BECAUSE OF THE PUBLIC WAS QUITE HONESTLY FED UP WITH A NUMBER OF SCANDALS THAT WERE HAPPENING.

THEY FELT LIKE THERE WAS -- ONE PARTY HAD TOO MUCH RULE.

AND SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE TERM LIMITS THAT WE HAVE NOW -- IT ALMOST CREATES AN UNNECESSARY URGENCY TO GET SOMETHING DONE.

WHETHER YOU'RE RUNNING FOR THE NEXT POLITICAL OFFICE WHERE -- WHETHER YOU'RE RUNNING FOR A LEADERSHIP POSITION, YOU KNOW, IT -- IT BEGS THE QUESTION OF WHO -- WHO ARE YOU REALLY SERVING.

ARE YOU SERVING THE PEOPLE, OR ARE YOU SERVING YOUR NEXT OFFICE?

>> MARK, THE IDEA WAS TO GET PEOPLE WHO HAVE, QUOTE, REAL-WORLD EXPERIENCE, GET RID OF THE CAREER POLITICIANS.

HAS IT DONE THAT?

>> PROBABLY NOT.

RESTRAINING THE POLITICAL AMBITIONS OF THOSE WHO WANT TO REMAIN IN POWER IS A LOT LIKE RESTRAINING THE PARTY AND AMBITIONS OF COLLEGE STUDENTS.

YOU CAN SAY YOU CAN'T DRINK ON CAMPUS, YET SOMEHOW THERE'S STILL ALCOHOL ON CAMPUS.

I'M SHOCKED TO REPORT.

AND SO THESE URGES ARE DEEP WITHIN THE SOUL OF THOSE WHO WANT TO BE IN OFFICE, AND THEY WILL FIND WAYS AROUND WHATEVER RULES SO THEY CAN REMAIN IN POWER.

THAT IS NOT A DEMOCRAT THING.

THAT'S NOT A REPUBLICAN THING.

IT'S PEOPLE WHO LIKE POWER.

THAT'S NOT TO SAY WE SHOULDN'T HAVE THEM.

IT'S JUST DON'T BE SURPRISED WHEN PEOPLE FIND WAYS AROUND THEM.

>> YEAH.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE SEEN DOWN AT THE STATE HOUSE IS THAT SOMEONE WILL EXPIRE THEIR EIGHT YEARS IN ONE CHAMBER AND MOVE OVER TO ANOTHER CHAMBER.

AND YOU KNOW, THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR SOME FOR 16 YEARS OR MORE.

AND SO THAT'S A LONG TIME TO BE THERE.

AND THERE'S SOME ARGUMENT TO BE MADE THAT THEY THEN KNOW THE SYSTEM BETTER AND THAT THAT EXPERIENCE HAS SOME VALUE.

AND THAT WITH SHORTER TERMS, LOBBYISTS ARE RUNNING THE DAY BECAUSE THEY'RE THE ONES WHO HAVE BEEN DOWN THERE THE WHOLE TIME.

AND SOME NEW LAWMAKER COMES IN WITH NO EXPERIENCE AND HAS TO TRUST THE EXPERTS.

>> AS LONG AS IT'S DERRICK CLAY AS THE LOBBYIST ON THE HILL, I'M COMFORTABLE.

THAT'S FINE.

NOT ALL LOBBYISTS ARE LIKE DERRICK CLAY.

>> DO THE LOBBYISTS WANT TERM LIMITS TO STAY?

DO YOU HAVE ALL THE POWER REALLY DOWN THERE?

>> YOU KNOW, LISTEN, AS A LOBBYIST OF COURSE WE WANT TERM LIMITS TO STAY BECAUSE WE'RE THE INSTITUTIONAL KNOWLEDGE AT THE STATE HOUSE.

IT'S THE INSTITUTIONAL KNOWLEDGE OF THE ADVOCATES THAT WORK ON CAPITAL SQUARE, THE INSTITUTIONAL KNOWLEDGE OF PEOPLE IN STATE GOVERNMENT THAT KNOW HOW TO THE GOVERNMENT WORKS.

SO YOU KNOW, AT THE END OF THE DAY WHEN NEW LAWMAKERS COME TO THE STATE HOUSE, THEY ARE LOOKING TO ASK LOBBYISTS ABOUT HOW THINGS WORK, THEY'RE ASKING PEOPLE THAT WORK IN STATE GOVERNMENT HOW THINGS WORK.

BECAUSE IF YOU'RE NEW AND GREEN, THEN YOU -- YOU HAVE TO FIND YOUR WAY AROUND THE STATE HOUSE RELATIVELY QUICKLY BECAUSE YOU ONLY HAVE EIGHT YEARS TO DO IT.

>> MIKE DeWINE TOLD WOSU'S ANNA STABER THAT FRAN DeWINE, HIS WIFE, HATED THE IDEA OF TERM LIMITS 30 YEARS AGO.

DeWINE SAID HE PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE LISTENED BECAUSE HE SUPPORTED THEM BACK THEN.

BUT HE SAID THERE'S FLOW WAY OHIO VOTERS ARE GOING TO CHANGE IT.

IS THIS GOING TO GO ANYWHERE?

>> THAT IS THE KEY THING.

OHIO VOTERS, VOTERS ACROSS THE NATION LIKE TERM LIMITS.

Y THAT WOULD LIKE THEM IN CONGRESS.

THEY WOULD LIKE THEM FOR THE U.S. SUPREME COURT WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY APPOINTED POSITION.

AND SO IT'S HARD TO SEE HOW IT GOES ANYWHERE.

BUT TO EVERYONE'S POINT, YOU DO END UP WITH AT LEAST ABOUT 25% OF THE OHIO HOUSE THAT IS THERE FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO PASS A VERY LARGE BUDGET IN A VERY -- ABOUT SIX MONTHS WHILE THEY'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHERE THEIR OFFICE IS.

THERE'S PROS AND CONS TO TERM LIMITS.

>> I WONDER IF GOVERNOR DeWINE'S ATTITUDE ON TERM LIMITS HAS CHANGED NOW THAT HE CAN NO LONGER RUN FOR GOVERNOR AGAIN.

I WONDER IF THAT'S THE REASON WHY HIS -- HE'S CHANGED HIS TUNE.

SAYS IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ANYWAY.

>>> BERNIE MORENO SEEMS TO BE PICKING UP MOMENTUM IN THE GOP PRIMARY FOR OHIO'S U.S. SENATE SEAT.

BEFORE CHRISTMAS HE RECEIVED THE ENDORSEMENT OF FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP.

THIS WEEK THE CLEVELAND BUSINESSMAN RECEIVED THE ENDORSEMENT OF THE CLUB FOR GROWTH, A NATIONAL CONSERVATIVE GROUP THAT CONTRIBUTES MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO REPUBLICAN HOUSE AND SENATE CANDIDATES.

MORENO FACES STATE SENATOR MATT DOLAN AND OHIO SECRETARY OF STATE FRANK LAROSE, IN MARCH'S PRIMARY.

THE WINNER TAKES ON, SHOWERS, SHERROD BROWN IN NOVEMBER.

MARK WEAVER, WHICH ENDORSEMENT IS WORTH MORE -- DONALD TRUMP'S ENDORSEMENT OR THE CLUB FOR GROWTH AND ALL THE MONEY THAT POSSIBLY COMES WITH IT?

>> ONE GETS MORE ATTENTION, THAT'S PRESIDENT TRUMP, AND ONE GETS MORE DOLLARS, THAT'S CLUB FOR GROWTH.

AND BERNIE MORENO DOESN'T HAVE TO PICK BECAUSE HE HAS BOTH.

WHAT WE'RE SEEING HERE IS REPUBLICANS KNOW THAT SHERROD BROWN IS IN THE GREATEST RISK OF HIS CAREER.

OHIO HAS GOTTEN REDDER AS HE'S BEEN IN OFFICE, AND HE'S NEVER HAD A YEAR WHERE HE EITHER DIDN'T HAVE A WEAK DON'T OR A STRONG TAILWIND BEHIND HIM.

HE NOW WILL HAVE A STRONG OPPONENT NO MATTER WHO WINS, AND IT WILL BE A REPUBLICAN HERE IN OHIO.

SO THERE IS AN ENERGY BEHIND WHO'S GOING TO BE THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE.

AND RIGHT NOW AT LEAST THIS WEEK, BERNIE MORENO HAS CAPTURED THAT ENERGY.

>> DERRICK, HOW DO YOU SEE THIS RACE?

>> THE POLLING ON THIS IS VERY LIMITED.

WE'VE SEEN ONE OR TWO POLLS, LOT OF UNDECIDEDS.

FRANK LAROSE TENDS TO LEAD BUT ONLY BY AWE -- BY A COUPLE OF POINTS.

WE DON'T KNOW WHERE THE RACE STANDS.

>> WE DON'T KNOW.

WE WON'T KNOW FOR SOME TIME.

BUT YOU KNOW, WHAT I CAN SAY ABOUT SENATOR BROWN IS THAT HE'S BEEN A STEADFAST LEADER FOR THIS STATE.

AND WHAT'S GOING TO BE REALLY INTERESTING IS A LOT OF THE RANK AND FILE LABOR FOLKS THAT NOW HAVE TURNED CONSERVATIVE AND REPUBLICAN, THEY STILL UNDERSTAND THAT SENATOR BROWN HAS BEEN THEIR CHAMPION FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS SINCE HE'S BEEN IN THE SENATE.

I DON'T SEE A SCENARIO WHERE SENATOR BROWN LOSES THIS RACE.

BUT IT IS GOING TO BE VERY CLOSE.

>> THE POLLS DO SHOW BASICALLY A TOSSUP BUT ALL THREE CANDIDATES, YOU KNOW, BROWN AGAINST MORENO, AGAINST LAROSE, BROWN AGAINST MATT DOLAN, A TOSSUP WITH A COUPLE OF POINTS HERE AND THERE.

>> EACH ONE HAS PROS AND CONS.

BERNIE MORENO NOW IS GAINING SOME NOTE ABILITY WITH THESE ENDORSEMENTS, BUT HE'S BASICALLY AN UNKNOWN TO SO MANY PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF CLEVELAND WHERE HE'S HAD THESE BUSINESSES.

LAROSE IS IN A HOT-BUTTON SEAT WHERE HE'S HAD TO MAKE SOME VERY DIFFICULT DECISIONS AND OCCASIONALLY IS CHANGING COURSE ON PREVIOUS DECISIONS AND CATCHING SOME FLACK FOR THAT.

BUT HE'S VERY WELL-KNOWN BECAUSE HE'S BEEN IN STATES OFFICE TWO TERMS, BEEN ELECTED.

AND THEN YOU HAVE MATT DOLAN WHO HAS A LOT OF MONEY.

WAS SELF-FUNDED LAST TIME, MANAGED TO COME IN REALLY WELL IN A CROWDED FIELD IN THE LAST SENATE RACE.

AND IS A SITTING STATE SENATOR.

>> JESSE, MATT DOLAN DIDN'T WANT TRUMP'S ENDORSEMENT.

HE'S KIND OF THE, YOU KNOW, QUIET ANTI-TRUMP CANDIDATE.

FRANK LAROSE WANTED IT.

WHERE DOES HE GO FROM HERE?

WHAT IS HIS STRATEGY, DO YOU THINK?

DOES HE TRY TO CONVINCE FOLKS THAT TRUMP DOES LIKE HIM?

>> YEAH.

I MEAN, OHIO SECRETARY OF STATE FRANK LAROSE IS IN A TOUGH SPOT IN THIS RACE.

THE ENDORSEMENTS KEEP FALLING FOR BERNIE MORENO, CLUB FOR GROWTH, WITH THE MONEY TRUMP, WITH THE NOTORIETY EVEN WARREN DAVIDSON, CONGRESSMAN FROM SOUTHWEST OHIO, IS BACKING MORENO.

SO IT'S A TOUGH POSITION TO BE IN.

HE STILL HAS THE NAME RECOGNITION OVER THE OTHER TWO CANDIDATES.

BUT ONCE MONEY STARTS BEING SPENT IN THE COMING WEEKS, THAT WILL PROBABLY GETS A LITTLE CLOSER.

>> ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS IS THE CLUB FOR GROWTH HAS BACKED BERNIE MORENO, BUT RICHARD ULINE, A MAJOR CONTRIBUTOR TO THE CLUB FOR GROWTH, GAVE A LOT OF MONEY TO FRANK LAROSE.

IS THERE SOME DISSENSION?

>> HE'S RUN STATEWIDE, WON STATEWIDE.

HAD THE ENDORSEMENT ONCE BEFORE.

HE HAS A STRONG SUPER PAC EFFORT AND IS A LARD CAMPAIGNER.

THIS WILL BE -- HARD CAMPAIGNER.

THIS WILL BE INTERESTING.

IT WILL COME DOWN TO MORENO OR LAROSE.

WE'LL SEE.

>> YOU DON'T THINK THAT MORENO AND LaROSE COULD SPLIT THE TRUMP VOTE AND MATT DOLAN COULD TAKE IT AND RUN WITH IT.

>> I'VE KNOWN HIM FOR YEARS BUT DON'T SEE HIM IN THE FINAL TWO.

IT WILL BE CLOSE.

THESE ARE THREE STRONG CANDIDATES.

ANY ONE OF WHOM CAN BEAT SHERROD BROWN.

>> THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE LAST TIME WITH J.D.

VANCE, FIVE CANDIDATES, MESSY, ALMOST A FIST FIGHT ON THE DEBATE STAGE.

THIS IS A MORE TRADITIONAL CAMPAIGN.

>> IT'S TRADITIONAL, BUT YOU KNOW, DONALD TRUMP COULD CHANGE HIS ENDORSEMENT.

I MEAN, WE DON'T KNOW.

THERE'S BEEN STRANGER THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED IN POLITICS, RIGHT?

BERNIE MORENO IS HIS CANDIDATE FOR NOW.

BUT WHO KNOWS.

IT -- THAT COULD CHANGE.

>> DONALD TRUMP IS RUNNING THIS YEAR, AND HE'S GOT 29 STATES BEFORE OHIO VOTES IN THE PRIMARY.

WONDER HOW MUCH TIME HE'LL SISTER TO CAMPAIGN FOR BERNIE MORENO HERE IN OHIO.

>>> IN ABOUT A WEEK, ACCORDING TO STATE LAW, OHIO KIDS UNDER THE AGE OF 16 WILL NEED THEIR PARENTS' CONSENT TO ACCESS SOCIAL MEDIA.

THE SOCIAL MEDIA PARENTAL NOTIFICATION ACT GOES INTO EFFECT JANUARY 15th.

IT MANDATES COMPANIES LIKE FACEBOOK, INSTAGRAM, SNAPCHAT AND YOUTUBE GET PARENTAL CONSENT BEFORE ALLOWING ANYONE YOUNGER THAN 16 TO USE THE PLATFORM.

SUPPORTERS SAY IT WILL PROTECT KIDS FROM ADDICTIVE SOCIAL MEDIA BEHAVIOR.

THE COMPANY WHO'S ARE SUING THE STATE ARGUE THEY HAVE TAKEN STEPS TO PROTECT YOUNG USERS.

LATE FRIDAY, JESSE BALMERT, SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES, META, FACEBOOK'S PARENT COMPANY, ALL SUING THE STATE, TRYING TO STOP THIS LAW FROM GOING INTO EFFECT.

>> YEAH.

OBVIOUSLY THIS AFFECTS THEIR BUSINESS MODEL, AND SO I'M NOT SURPRISED THAT THEY'VE ALSO IN STATES INCLUDING UTAH, FOR EXAMPLE.

AND SO WE'LL SEE HOW THIS ENDS UP PLAYING OUT.

BUT THE UNDERLYING PRINCIPLE IS TO TRY TO LIMIT SOCIAL MEDIA USE EARLY.

YOU KNOW, KNOW WHAT TEENS ARE LOOKING AT ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF DOCUMENTATION OF MENTAL HEALTH EFFECTS, OF YOU KNOW, SOCIAL MEDIA USE ON TEENS IN PARTICULAR.

BUT PROBABLY ALL OF US.

SO THAT'S THE GOAL OF THE LAW AT LEAST.

>> JULIE, HOW ON EARTH IS THE STATE OF OHIO GOING TO KNOW IF SOMEBODY 14 YEARS OLD IS ON SNAPCHAT?

>> YEAH.

IT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

I MEAN, THE WAY THE LAW WOULD FUNCTION, I BELIEVE IS THAT THERE WOULD BE WAYS IN WHICH THE PARENT WOULD HAVE TO, FOR EXAMPLE, MAYBE SHOW OR PROVIDE A CREDIT CARD OR SIGN A WAIVER THAT SAYS I'VE SEEN THIS, I'VE ALLOWED IT, AND THAT THAT IS NOT HAPPENING NOW.

NOW, YOU KNOW, META AND OTHERS HAVE ALREADY ARGUED AGAINST THESE THINGS AND SAID THAT THEY HAVE SOMETHING LIKE 30 DIFFERENT PROVISIONS IN PLACE WHERE THEY'RE TRYING TO PROTECT MINORS AND THAT THESE THINGS SHOULD BE WITHIN FAMILIES AGAIN.

YOU KNOW, AS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT -- >> I THINK 50 YEARS FROM NOW PEOPLE LOOK BACK ON OUR GENERATION AND SAY WHY DIDN'T YOU PROTECT YOUR TEENAGERS THE WAY WE LOOK BACK AT KIDS WHO WERE SMOKING IN THE '70s, AT THE HIGH SCHOOL SMOKING LOUNGE.

THE PEOPLE WILL WONDER WHY WE ALLOWED OUR KIDS TO HAVE ACCESS TO ADDICTIVE DEVICES.

THE QUESTION IS HOW DO YOU IMPLEMENT THESE THINGS, AND THESE -- THE COMPANIES DO NOT WANT TO HAVE A CHECKERBOARD EFFECT WHERE THEY DO ONE THING IN INDIANA AND ANOTHER IN OHIO.

SO IT DOES RAISE AN INTERESTING FEDERALISM QUESTION.

>> IT'S -- I MEAN, YOU GO TO A WEBSITE THAT SELLS ALCOHOL, LIKE A BEER WEBSITE, EVEN A BAR WEBSITE, AND THEY ALWAYS ASK YOU, ARE YOU 21?

YEAH, SURE.

YOU GET IN.

THEY DON'T CHECK ON ANYONE'S I.D.

>> RIGHT.

RIGHT.

RIGHT, SO THAT BEGS THE QUESTION OF ENFORCEMENT.

HOW DO YOU TRULY ENFORCE THIS LAW.

>> YOU KNOW, THE LAWSUITS WILL -- THE LAWSUITS THAT HAVE BEEN FILED, YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE GOING TO MOVE FORWARD AND WHO KNOWS WHERE THEY'LL END UP IN COURT.

BUT AGAIN, IT BEGS THE QUESTION HOW DO YOU ENFORCE THIS.

AND WHAT ARE THE PENALTIES?

>> KIND OF LIKE A PUBLIC AWARENESS THING?

JESSE, I'M THINKING GIVES PARENTS AN EXCUSE, YOU KNOW.

I WANTING TO O FACEBOOK, SAYS THE 14-YEAR-OLD, AND THEY TELL JOHNNY, I'M SORRY, GOVERNOR DeWINE WON'T LET ME LET YOU ON -- >> THE STATE OF OHIO IS -- >> JOHNNY DOES NOT WANTING TO O FACEBOOK.

JOHNNY WANTS TO GO ON TikTok.

>> I MEAN, TO BE FAIR, THE LAWMAKERS DID THINK THROUGH A SYSTEM WHEREBY THERE COULD BE ENFORCEMENT.

AND NO COMPANY THAT HAS TO MAKE A PROFIT WANTS TO BE OUT OF -- OUT OF SYNC WITH REGULATION.

>> YOUTUBE, THERE ARE CHECK BOXES IN PLACE.

YOU CAN'T GET ON UNLESS YOU'RE A CERTAIN AGE, CAN SEE CERTAIN CONTENT.

PDS KIDS IS ON YOUTUBE.

THAT'S PRETTY SAFE.

>> FIRST AMENDMENT -- MOSTLY WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT BEING CONTENT NEUTRAL.

AND THE ABILITY OF CHILDREN TO SEE, FOR EXAMPLE, PORNOGRAPHY CAN BE LIMITED BY STATUTE AND HAS BEEN FOR YEARS.

AND SO THE LAWMAKERS ARE SUGGESTING THAT THIS MIGHT BE AS DANGEROUS AS PORNOGRAPHY.

>> I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THE QUESTION IS, IF WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE FIRST AMENDMENT, THESE LAWSUITS THAT ARE BEING FILED IS -- IT'S DOING A CHECK ON WHETHER A TEEN IS OLD ENOUGH TO BE ON SOCIAL MEDIA, DOES THAT PROHIBIT THE FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS OF THAT INDIVIDUAL.

>> YEAH.

>> RIGHT.

AND WE'VE HAD THESE DISCUSSIONS OF, YOU KNOW, YES, WE CAN LIMIT MINORS IN SOME WAYS.

WE CAN REGULATE MINORS IN DIFFERENT WAYS THAN WE CAN ADULTS.

I MEAN, MARK KNOWS WAY BETTER THAN I DO AS A SCHOLAR OF THIS STUFF.

BUT YOU KNOW, I JUST THINK THAT THE IDEA HERE IS, AS YOU SAY, THERE'S A DUAL ROLE HERE.

ONE IS TRYING TO TACKLE THE REAL MENTAL HEALTH CONCERNS PEOPLE HAVE ABOUT USE.

>> THE KEY IS THE ALGORITHM, MARK.

IS THERE ANY WAY FOR KIDS AND ADULTS THAT YOU COULD FORCE SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES DO NOT -- LIKE I TRIED TO TEST IT TODAY.

I TYPED IN AVOCADO TO INSTAGRAM JUST TO SEE IF I'D GET A BUNCH OF AVOCADO RECIPES.

HAVE -- THE JURY'S STILL OUT THERE.

BUT THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE.

YOU TYPE IN ONE THING YOU'RE GOING TO GET PICTURES OF THINGS YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT.

>> CONTROLLING WHAT THE ALGORITHM IS DOES RUN INTO FIRST AMENDMENT PROBLEMS THAT DERRICK WAS TALKING ABOUT MORE THAN CONTROLLING WHAT CHILDREN CAN DO.

BECAUSE CHILDREN HAVE LIMITED RIGHTS COMPARED TO ADULTS UNDER THE CONSTITUTION.

AND PROTECTING THEM IS AN IMPORTANT STATE INTEREST WHICH IS ONE OF THE BALANCING FACTORS THE COURT WOULD LOOK AT.

>> SO WHAT HAPPENS, JESSE?

PRESUMABLY A JUDGE MIGHT PUT THIS LAW ON HOLD UNTIL THEY CAN ADJUDICATE IT?

>> YEAH, THE LAW'S SUPPOSED TO TAKE EFFECT ON THE 15th.

WE'LL HAVE A COURT DECISION ONE WAY OR THE OTHER BEFORE THEN, DECIDING WHETHER THIS GOES FORWARD.

>> IT IS ON HOLD, AS YOU MENTIONED.

I THINK UTAH AND A FEW OTHER STATES AS IT WORKS THROUGH THE COURT SYSTEM.

>>> TIME FOR OUR FINAL "OFF THE RECORD" PARTING SHOTS.

MARK WEAVER, YOU'RE UP FIRST.

>> NBC NEWS PUT OUT A POLL THIS WEEK WHERE THEY ASKED A BUNCH OF QUESTIONS ABOUT POLITICS.

AND ONE QUESTION GETS ASKED A LOT -- IS THE COUNTRY ON THE WRONG TRACK?

NEARLY THREE QUARTERS OF AMERICANS HAVE SAID THE COUNTRY IS ON A WRONG TRACK.

THE HIGHEST IN THE HISTORY OF THE POLL.

THAT'S SUGGESTS BAD THINGS FOR JOE BIDEN THIS YEAR.

>> DERRICK?

>> WE WELCOMED THREE NEW COUNCIL MEMBERS TO COLUMBUS CITY COUNCIL THIS WEEK.

AND TWO OF THEM ARE FROM THE EXPANDED NEW WARD SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE HERE.

NOW WE HAVE NINE COUNCIL MEMBERS IN THE CITY OF COLUMBUS VERSUS SEVEN.

>> ALL RIGHT.

JULIE?

>> JUST IN LIGHT OF THE CONVERSATION WE'VE HAD TODAY, I'M FASCINATED TO WATCH THE PARENTAL RIGHTS ISSUE THIS YEAR.

WE SAW IT REALLY REAR ITS HEAD ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO.

ESPECIALLY AROUND COVID AND SCHOOL BOARDS.

BUT IT'S GETTING MUCH MORE NUANCED.

I MEAN, THE GOVERNOR'S VETO RELATED TO THE RIGHTS OF LGBTQ PEOPLE'S PARENTS.

NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE INTERNET, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ABORTION ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, AND I JUST THINK IT'S GOING TO BE THE ISSUE TO WATCH.

>> AND JESSE?

>> MY COLLEAGUE REQUESTED ALL OF THE REJECTED LICENSE PLATES, AND MANY ARE REJECTED FOR PROVIFANITY.

LET ME -- PROVIANT.

LET ME SAY OHIOANS DON'T LIKE THE MICHIGAN WOLVERINES.

>> MORE THAN JUST MICHIGAN PU.

MY GUESS IS THEY HAVE OTHER VARIATIONS.

>> I'M GOING SAVE YOU SOME HERE.

>> OHIOANS CAN BE VERY CREATIVE.

CHIEF JUSTICE JOHN ROBERTS SAID THIS WEEK THAT HE'S GOING TO GO SLOW WHEN IT COMES TO AI IN THE COURT.

SO JUST AS SLOW AS HE'S BEEN IN LETTING CAMERAS INTO THE COURTROOM, AS WELL.

MY GUESS IS THAT AI WILL FACE NO EASIER PATH THROUGH THE COURT SYSTEM, FEDERAL COURT SYSTEM, THAN CAMERAS HAVE.

>>> THAT IS "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION ON FACEBOOK.

YOU CAN WATCH US ANY TIME ON OUR WEBSITE AT WOSU.ORG/COTR, AND IF YOU'RE 16 OR OLDER, YOU CAN CHECK OUT US ON YOUTUBE.

AND ALSO THERE'S A PBS VIDEO APP.

I DON'T THINK THERE'S AN AGE REQUIREMENT THERE.

ANYWAY, FOR OUR CREW AND PANEL, I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.

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