BUT TURNING BACK NOW TO THE STATE BUDGET.

AS WE'VE TOLD YOU MANY TIMES ON THIS SHOW NEW YORK IS IN A HOUSING CRISIS.

THERE'S A SHORTAGE OF MORE THAN 600,000 RENTAL UNITS THAT LOW-INCOME RENTERS COULD ACTUALLY AFFORD ACCORDING TO THE NATIONAL LOW INCOME HOUSING COALITION.

AND WHILE NEW YORK'S POPULATION HAS DROPPED OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS THE DEMAND FOR HOUSING HAS NOT.

AND GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL HAS PROPOSED A PLAN THIS YEAR THAT SHE SAYS COULD HELP FILL THAT GAP.

IT'S CALLED THE NEW YORK HOUSING COMPACT.

IT WOULD SET A GOAL OF 800,000 NEW HOMES IN NEW YORK OVER THE NEXT DECADE AND EACH LOCALITY WOULD HAVE SPECIFIC HOUSING TARGETS TO MEET.

AND NOT EVERYONE'S HAPPY ABOUT THAT.

SOME LOCAL LEADERS ESPECIALLY ON LONG ISLAND SAY THEY WANT TO CREATE HOUSING ON THEIR OWN TERMS, NOT THE STATE'S.

I ASKED GOVERNOR HOCHUL ABOUT THOSE CONCERNS THIS WEEK WHILE SHE WAS IN ALBANY TO TOUT HER HOUSING PLAN.

YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SAYING EVERYONE AGREES WITH ME ON EVERYTHING.

BUT WHEN THEY UNDERSTAND THE PURPOSE BEHIND THIS TO BROADEN THE TAX BASE, A BIG ISSUE ON LONG ISLAND AS WELL, TAKE CARE OF THE EMPLOYERS WHO'VE BEEN TELLING ME FOR 10 YEARS NOW THAT THEIR BIGGEST CHALLENGE IS FINDING WORKERS AND WORKERS ARE TELLING ME THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO LIVE THERE.

SO THIS IS HOW WE MEET THE NEEDS OF THE EMPLOYERS AS WELL.

HOCHUL HAS PITCHED THE PLAN AS PART OF THE STATE BUDGET WHICH AGAIN IS DUE IN JUST FOUR WEEKS.

AND THERE ARE STILL A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW IT WOULD WORK.

SO TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THE HOUSING COMPACT AND TO ASK ABOUT THOSE LOCAL CONCERNS WE SPOKE WITH STATE HOUSING COMMISSIONER RUTHANNE VISNAUSKAS.

COMMISSIONER VISNAUSKAS, THANKS SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE, I APPRECIATE IT THANKS.

OF COURSE.

SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE NEW YORK HOUSING COMPACT.

IT'S A PROPOSAL FROM GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL FOR THIS YEAR'S STATE BUDGET.

TO GIVE OUR VIEWERS A QUICK RUNDOWN, IT WILL HAVE A GOAL OF CREATING 800,000 NEW HOMES OVER THE NEXT DECADE ACROSS THE STATE.

EACH LOCALITY WOULD HAVE ITS OWN HOUSING GOAL.

I WANT TO START WITH THAT NUMBER, 800,000, BECAUSE IT IS A BIG NUMBER.

HOW DID WE GET TO THAT NUMBER FOR THE GOAL FOR THIS PLAN OVER 10 YEARS?

ABSOLUTELY.

REALLY THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO UNPACK A LITTLE BIT WHAT IS A COMPLICATED STRATEGY THAT WE PROPOSED BUT REALLY A NECESSARY ONE IN ORDER TO LEAVE THE CRISIS IN HOUSING THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW.

SO WHEN WE LOOKED BACK OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS, WE SAW THAT IN NEW YORK STATE WE PRODUCED ABOUT 400,000 UNITS OF HOUSING.

WE LOOKED AT A LOT OF DATA TO FIGURE OUT WHAT DO WE ACTUALLY NEED TO BE PRODUCING IN ORDER TO ACCOMMODATE OUR GROWING WORKFORCE AND OUR GROWING STATE, AND WE THINK THAT NUMBER IS ABOUT 800,000.

AND THEN WE DEVELOPED A SERIES OF POLICY STRATEGIES THAT WE THINK WILL GET US OVER THE NEXT DECADE CONTINUING WITH THE 400,000 WE WOULD ASSUME WOULD HAPPEN ORGANICALLY AND THEN ADDING AN ADDITIONAL 400,000.

THOSE ARE THE THINGS YOU READ ABOUT IN THE COMPACT AROUND GROWTH TARGETS AND TRANSIT-ORIENTED DEVELOPMENT AND SOME OTHER REGULATORY RELIEF.

OKAY.

THE 800,000 ISN'T NECESSARILY THE GAP THAT WE HAVE NOW; IT'S KIND OF THE GAP WE'RE EXPECTING IN 10 YEARS, IS THAT WHAT I'M UNDERSTANDING CORRECTLY?

IT'S A TARGET.

IT'S REALLY WHAT WE THINK NEW YORK STATE NEEDS TO GET CREATED OVER THE NEXT DECADE IN ORDER TO MAKE UP FOR THE UNDERPRODUCTION OF THE LAST 10 YEARS AND ACCOMMODATE OUR GROWTH.

I THINK AS YOU'VE HEARD PROBABLY THE GOVERNOR TALK ABOUT, WE'VE DONE A REALLY GOOD JOB CREATING JOBS IN THIS STATE.

WE'VE CREATED 1.2 MILLION JOBS OVER THE LAST DECADE BUT ONLY 400,000 UNITS OF HOUSING.

THE REASON IT'S A GAP, THE REASON IT'S IMPORTANT, IT'S ALSO DIFFERENT THAN WHAT OTHER STATES ARE DOING AND OTHER STATES IN MANY CASES IN OUR SURROUNDING STATES ARE PRODUCING MORE HOUSING THAN THEY ARE JOBS AND THAT'S WHY PEOPLE ARE MOVING TO NORTHERN NEW JERSEY AND MOVING TO CONNECTICUT BECAUSE THERE'S ACTUALLY HOUSING AVAILABLE THERE, A, AND HOUSING AVAILABLE THERE THAT'S MORE AFFORDABLE.

SO WE REALLY NEED TO MAKE UP FOR THAT LACK OF PRODUCTION OVER THE LAST DECADE BY REALLY CHANGING WHAT WE DO AS WE LOOK FORWARD OVER THE NEXT 10 YEARS.

NOW, OVER THOSE 800,000 UNITS, ARE THERE ANY REQUIREMENTS ON KIND OF WHAT KIND OF UNITS THEY HAVE TO BE?

I'M THINKING IS THERE A REQUIREMENT THAT A CERTAIN NUMBER OR SHARE OF THEM HAVE TO BE AFFORDABLE HOUSING VERSUS JUST ANY KIND OF HOUSING?

SO WE WANT LOCALITIES TO REALLY BE ABLE TO CONTROL WHAT KIND OF GROWTH THEY HAVE.

AND SO WHILE WE HAVE THIS SORT OF FRAMEWORK SET UP, WITHIN IT IS ALSO A LOT OF FLEXIBILITY.

SO IF LOCALITIES WOULD LIKE TO BUILD SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, TOWNHOUSES, MULTIFAMILY BUILDINGS, HOME OWNERSHIP RENTAL, THEY REALLY CONTROL THEIR GROWTH IN THAT WAY.

WHAT WE'RE REALLY SAYING IS WE NEED YOU TO GROW AND WE NEED YOU TO KEEP PERMITTING HOUSING SO PEOPLE HAVE PLACES TO LIVE, WHETHER THAT'S KIDS WHO WANT TO COME BACK AND LIVE WHERE THEY GREW UP OR SENIORS WHO WANT TO DOWNSIZE INTO A DIFFERENT TYPE OF HOUSE, WE REALLY WANT TO HAVE DIFFERENT TYPES OF HOUSING ACROSS THE SPECTRUM.

SO WE GIVE LOCALITIES REALLY A LOT OF FLEXIBILITY TO CREATE THE TYPE OF HOUSING THAT MAKES SENSE FOR THEM.

ALTHOUGH I WOULD SAY WITHIN THAT, TOO, WE'VE TRIED TO BUILD IN A LOT OF INCENTIVES FOR AFFORDABILITY, BECAUSE CERTAINLY AS I GO ACROSS THE STATE EVERYWHERE I GO LOCAL LEADERS ARE SAYING TO ME THEY NEED WORKFORCE HOUSING, THEY NEED AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

WE PUT A SERIES OF INCENTIVES BUILT INTO THE SYSTEM FOR LOCALITIES TO INCLUDE AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN THEIR PRODUCTION.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT.

WHAT DO THOSE INCENTIVES LOOK LIKE?

ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THINGS LIKE TAX BREAKS, DIRECT FUNDING FROM THE STATE, HOW WOULD THAT WORK?

REALLY, IT'S ALL THE ABOVE.

WE HAVE A VERY ROBUST HOUSING PLAN THAT GOT PASSED BY THE GOVERNOR OF THE LEGISLATURE LAST YEAR, WE HAVE $25 BILLION PLAN FIVE-YEAR PLAN TO CREATE 100,00 AFFORDABLE UNITS.

IT'S THE BIGGEST COMMITMENT OF ANY STATE IN THE COUNTRY TOWARDS AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

WE HAVE THAT READY AND AVAILABLE FOR LOCALITIES THAT WANT TO DO THAT.

BUT WE'VE ALSO BUILT INTO THE OVERALL HOUSING COMPACT AN ACCOUNTING SYSTEM THAT ALLOWS LOCALITIES TO COUNT AFFORDABLE REGULATED HOUSING AT DOUBLE WHAT THEY WOULD A MARKET RATE HOUSING.

AGAIN WE'RE SAYING WE REALLY WANT YOU TO GROW; IF YOU'RE A TOWN OF 10,000 AND YOU HAVE A THREE-YEAR TARGET OF 100 UNITS, YOU COULD PERMIT 100 MARKET RATE UNITS OR YOU COULD PERMIT 50 AFFORDABLE UNITS AND THAT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS YOUR TARGET.

WE THINK THAT'S A REALLY GOOD INCENTIVE FOR LOCALITIES TO WANT TO BUILD AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

I THINK YOU MENTIONED IT A BIT BUT WHAT WOULD EACH LOCALITY'S HOUSING GOAL BE BASED ON?

IS IT STRICTLY POPULATION?

WE SEE A BIGGER HOUSING GROWTH IN NEW YORK CITY VERSUS MAYBE A RURAL TOWN UPSTATE?

SO WE ARE REALLY TAILORING IT TO WHERE LOCALITIES ARE TODAY.

SO WE ARE GOING TO -- LOCALITIES WILL BE BASELINED OFF 2020 CENSUS HOW MANY HOUSING UNITS THEY HAVE.

IF YOU'RE IN 2020, HAD 10,000 HOUSING UNITS, WE'LL SAY YOUR THREE-YEAR TARGET IS 100 UNITS.

AND YOU HAVE THREE YEARS TO MAKE THAT TARGET AND TO PERMIT, TO YOUR QUESTION WHETHER IT'S A STARTER HOME, A SENIOR APARTMENT, OR A MULTIFAMILY BUILDING, TO MEET THAT TARGET AND THAT TIMEFRAME.

NOW, ARE THERE ANY LOCALITIES ACROSS THE STATE THAT YOU SEE THAT MAYBE IT'S A VERY SMALL RURAL TOWN THAT MAYBE JUST DOESN'T HAVE A DEMAND IN HOUSING THAT WE SEE THERE CLEARLY, WOULD THEY STILL HAVE A HOUSING GOAL AS WELL OR WILL THERE BE A SYSTEM THAT SAYS LOOKS LIKE YOU DON'T NEED IT; YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO IT?

IF THERE'S NO DEMAND IN A LOCALITY FOR HOUSING, THEN THIS REALLY DOES NOT HAVE AN IMPACT.

SO WE AREN'T REQUIRING HOUSING GET BUILT ANYWHERE; WE JUST SIMPLY HAD THIS SORT OF FRAMEWORK IN PLACE TO ENCOURAGE GROWTH WHERE PEOPLE ARE LOOKING TO BUILD.

NOW, THERE ARE HIGHER HOUSING GOALS, I BELIEVE, AND I'M SORRY THAT I'M NOT REMEMBERING THE CORRECT DETAILS OF HOUSING GOALS IN NEW YORK CITY VERSUS OTHER PARTS OF THE STATE.

I THINK IT'S 3% OVER A CERTAIN NUMBER OF YEARS BUT I'LL LET YOU SAY IT BECAUSE YOU WILL KNOW IT.

YOU'RE EXACTLY RIGHT.

IT'S 3% DOWNSTATE.

BY DOWNSTATE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AREAS SERVED BY MTA AND IT'S 1% UPSTATE.

AND THAT'S OVER THE THREE-YEAR TIMELINE.

AND HOW WOULD YOU SEE EACH LOCALITY MEETING THESE GOALS?

WE TALKED ABOUT IT A LITTLE BIT IN TERMS OF INCENTIVES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

BUT AT THE START OF THIS PROCESS, ASSUMING THAT IT PASSES IN THE STATE BUDGET, IF IT DOES, AT THE START OF THE PROCESS, EACH LOCALITY WILL HAVE A GOAL OVER A CERTAIN NUMBER OF YEARS.

DOES THE STATE JUST KIND OF SAY HERE'S WHAT WE WANT OUT OF YOU; CAN YOU DO THAT?

IF NOT, HERE'S HELP?

SO I WOULD SAY TO YOUR SORT OF FIRST POINT ABOUT SHOULD THIS PASS IN THE STATE BUDGET, WE ARE REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO WORKING WITH THE LEGISLATURE TO GET SOMETHING PASSED.

I THINK WE FEEL THAT WE CAN'T KEEP GOING BUSINESS AS USUAL AS WE HAVE FOR THE PAST DECADE INTO THE NEXT BECAUSE THE HOUSING PRICES IS TOO SEVERE, RENTS AND HOME PRICES HAVE GROWN FAR TOO MUCH AS A RESULT OF LACK OF SUPPLY.

SO I THINK EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS THAT PREMISE.

AND WE HAVE TO FIND A SOLUTION FOR IT.

WE THINK THIS IS THE RIGHT ONE AND A GOOD ONE BUT WE'RE ALSO OPEN TO WORKING WITH THE LEGISLATURE TO MAKE SURE WE CAN MAKE THIS SOMETHING THAT DOES WORK BECAUSE WE JUST THINK DOING NOTHING IS NOT AN OPTION AND IT'S NOT GOING TO BE GOOD FOR THE STATE.

ASSUMING WE DO GET PAST THAT, I THINK WE ARE REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING A LOT OF COMMUNITIES TAKE UP A PLANNING PROCESS AND TO SAY HOW CAN WE GROW AND HOW DO WE BE SUCCESSFUL IN THAT WAY, THERE'S SO MANY PLACES I'VE GONE AROUND THE STATE WHERE PEOPLE HAVE DONE MIXED INCOME, MIXED USE BUILDINGS IN THEIR DOWNTOWNS, AROUND THEIR TRAIN STATIONS, VIBRANT DOWN TOWNS WHERE PEOPLE ARE WALKING TO DINNER, WALKING TO COFFEE, BUSINESSES ARE OPENING UP.

SO WE THINK THIS IS REALLY SORT OF KEY TO NEW YORK'S LONG-TERM SUCCESS THAT PEOPLE ARE THINKING ABOUT GROWTH AND THINKING ABOUT AFFORDABILITY REALLY AS PART OF THEIR ECONOMICS AND WE WANT NEW YORK TO BE A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE WANT TO STAY HERE AND LIVE HERE AND THEY AREN'T MOVING TO NEW JERSEY AND AREN'T MOVING TO CONNECTICUT BECAUSE THEY'RE PRICED OUT OF THE MARKET HERE.

YEAH, I THINK WE ALL WOULD LIKE THAT FOR SURE.

WOULD LOCALITIES ALSO BE REQUIRED TO -- AND I ASSUME MAYBE NOT REQUIRED, BUT COULD LOCALITIES ALSO OFFER INCENTIVES FOR NEW HOUSING?

I COULD SEE SITUATIONS WHERE MAYBE A LOCALITY HELPS OUT A LOCAL DEVELOPER.

THAT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME ACROSS THE STATE ON OTHER PROJECTS.

IS THAT ALSO EXPECTED FROM THESE LOCALITIES?

YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK RIGHT NOW PEOPLE FEEL THAT BOTH THE SORT OF LAND USE PROCESS IN A LOT OF PLACES IS A VERY, VERY LONG, LENGTHY PROCESS.

AND SO I THINK BY ENCOURAGING LOCALITIES TO UNDERTAKE REZONINGS, THIS IS GOING TO ALLOW MORE WHAT PEOPLE WOULD CALL AS OF RIGHT DEVELOPMENT.

SO EVERY PROJECT DOESN'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH WHAT CAN SOMETIMES BE A 12-MONTH, TWO-YEAR, THREE, FOUR-YEAR PROCESS TO GO THROUGH A SERIES OF APPROVALS.

SO WE AREN'T GOING TO BUILD OUR WAY OUT OF THIS IF IT TAKES EVERY PROJECT FOUR YEARS JUST TO GET APPROVED MUCH LESS GET BUILT AND GET OCCUPIED.

WE THINK THAT BY WORKING WITH LOCALITIES THAT YOU REALLY HAVE TO LOOK AT YOUR ZONING AND REALLY DO A PLANNING PROCESS THAT THEN MORE DEVELOPMENTS CAN HAPPEN ON A MORE EXPEDITED BASIS AND WE GET THE KIND OF GROWTH WE REALLY NEED.

AS YOU MENTIONED, THE STATE'S PLAN, GOVERNOR HOCHUL'S PLAN, I SHOULD SAY, WOULD ALLOW LOCALITIES, IF THEY'RE HAVING TROUBLE MEETING THEIR HOUSING GOAL, SOME OTHER WAY TO OVERRIDE LOCAL ZONING LAW SO THEY CAN KIND OF STREAMLINE THE PROCESS.

SOME LOCAL LEADERS, ESPECIALLY ON LONG ISLAND, HAVE SAID THAT THEY REALLY DON'T LIKE THAT.

THEY DON'T LIKE THE STATE TELLING THEM THAT THEY SHOULD REZONE CERTAIN PARTS OF THEIR LOCALITY THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO MEET THESE HOUSING GOALS WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THEM?

WE BUILT IN A LOT OF FLEXIBILITY TO THE PLAN.

SO THE FIRST COURSE IS IF YOU GROW AND YOU MEET YOUR HOUSING TARGET IN THREE YEARS, GREAT.

IF YOU CAN'T BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH ZONED CAPACITY IN YOUR TOWN TO HAVE THAT KIND OF GROWTH, THEN WHAT WE'VE LAID OUT IN THE COMPACT IS TO SAY THEN UNDERTAKE A SERIES OF ZONING ACTIONS THAT COULD BE REZONING AND OFFICE PARK AND REZONING AN OLD MALL TO ALLOW RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT AND A SERIES OF OTHER ACTIONS.

AND IF A LOCALITY DOES THOSE, THEN THEY HAVE SIX YEARS TO MAKE THEIR GROWTH TARGET.

SO WE FEEL LIKE WE'RE REALLY GIVING A LOT OF FLEXIBILITY TO SAY WE WANT YOU TO GROW BUT IF YOU CAN'T WE'LL GIVE YOU ANOTHER EXTRA CYCLE TO UNDERTAKE SOME ZONING AND THEN GROW.

BY YEAR SIX YOU'LL HAVE MET YOUR TARGET.

AND WE HAVE OBVIOUSLY A MECHANISM IN THERE TO HAVE SOME PROJECTS APPROVED.

THAT'S REALLY FOR LOCALITIES THAT DON'T GROW AND PERMIT HOUSING AND/OR DON'T TAKE ANY ZONING ACTION.

IN THAT CASE WE'RE SAYING THAT IT IS TOO IMPORTANT FOR THIS STATE TO ALLOW SOME LOCALITIES TO JUST NOT GROW AT ALL.

WE REALLY NEED EVERYONE TO BE DOING THEIR PART.

AND THAT'S REALLY THE ONLY CASE WHERE THIS OTHER APPROVAL PROCESS COMES IN TO PLAY.

AND IT'S NOT HOW WE ARE HOPING A LOT OF HOUSING GETS BUILT IN THE STATE.

WE REALLY WANT LOCALITIES TO BE UNDERTAKING ALL THESE PLANNING AND ZONING ACTIONS.

WILL THERE BE CONSEQUENCES FOR LOCALITIES IF THIS PASSES AND THEY GET THEIR NUMBER AND THE LOCAL LEADERS ARE SO AGAINST THEY JUST SAY I'M NOT DOING IT, I DON'T WANT TO DO IT, WHAT HAPPENS THEN?

SO WE'VE PUT IN WHAT'S CALLED AN APPEALS PROCESS, AN APPROVALS PROCESS, WHERE AT THE END -- IF A LOCALITY IS NOT DOING ANY OF THOSE THINGS AS I MENTIONED, THEN A DEVELOPER THEN GOES TO THAT LOCALITY AND APPLIES FOR A PLAN APPROVAL OR A BUILDING PERMIT AND THEY GET DENIED, WE'RE GOING TO GIVE THEM A PLACE TO APPEAL.

THEY CAN EITHER COME TO A NEWLY CREATED BOARD AT THE STATE LEVEL OR THEY CAN GO TO THE COURT SYSTEM.

WE WOULD ALLOW THEM TO DO EITHER ONE, AND THEY CAN HAVE THAT CASE REVIEWED.

IF IN FACT THE COURT OR THE BOARD FINDS THAT THE TOWN HAS NOT MET ANY OF ITS OBLIGATIONS NOT MADE ANY ATTEMPTS TO DO ANY REZONING THEY WOULD THEN OVERRIDE THE DENIAL OF THAT PROJECT AND ALLOW IT TO PROCEED.

AGAIN THE ENFORCEMENT MECHANISM IS THERE IT'S TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE DOES THEIR PART BUT OUR HOPE IS REALLY THAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY PROACTIVELY DO ALL THE PLANNING AND THE ZONING THAT'S NEEDED TO MAKE THEM GROW IN A WAY THAT MAKES SENSE FOR THEM.

WE WILL SEE HOW IT SHAKES OUT IN STATE BUDGET TALKS.

STATEHOUSING COMMISSIONER RUTHANNE VISNAUSKAS, THANKS SO MUCH.