- Governor Holcomb's eighth and final Veto.

Brad Chambers Economic Plan, plus Jamie Ritenours exclusion from debates and more from the television studios at WFYI.

It's Indiana Weekend Review for the week ending March 22nd, 2024.

- Indiana, we can review is made possible by the supporters of Indiana Public Broadcasting stations.

- This week, governor Eric Holcomb vetoed to bill that would define and ban antisemitism in state public education institutions, Indiana public broadcasting's violent, the cumber Weiland reports.

The governor said the bill didn't go far enough to prevent antisemitism.

- The bill that passed out of both the House and the Senate used the International Holocaust Remembrance, Alliance's definition of antisemitism, but leaves out IRA's, examples of antisemitism in a press release.

The governor says he's unable to sign this legislation as it failed to incorporate the entire IHRA definition, the inclusion of these examples.

In initial legislation, drew controversy with critics saying they prevented free speech and conflated criticism of the state of Israel with antisemitism.

The governor also signed a proclamation that says, Indiana endorses the IHRA working definition, including its examples, the Indianapolis Jewish Community Relations Council and several lawmakers release statements in support of the proclamation.

- Does the Governor's proclamation accomplish the issues overarching goal?

It's the first question for our Indiana weaker review panel.

Democrat and Delaney Republican, Mike O'Brien, John Schwan, host of Indiana lawmakers, and Nikki Kelly, editor in chief of the Indiana Capital Chronicle.

I'm Indiana Public Broadcasting State House Bureau Chief Brandon Smith, Mike O'Brien.

Is this a if not surprising, a satisfactory conclusion to this?

- I don't think it was surprising necessarily.

It's surprising that House Bill 10 0 2, the second priority in the, among the house Republicans 'cause fear anytime that happens.

That's, that's a surprise how this bill progressed through the process though, where it, you know, the, the standard accepted definition passed through the house.

They kind of monkeyed with it in the Senate, which caused both the Muslim community and the, and the Jewish community to switch sides, switch their positions on the, on the bill, which caused everybody to pause.

And then they tried to kind of put it back together in the end.

I think this is probably the best outcome and it's also the outcome that most states have done.

Most states don't have this in statute.

They have it in some form of proclamation that that varies.

The, the, the, you know, the legal impact of that - Vary.

Some solution.

- They have resolutions or proclamations.

So my guess is that the legislature's gonna say all done with that and move on because this is, this is about sending the message and the message has been sent.

- Yeah.

A colleague of ours, Dan Carton, questioned whether any bill with that many co-sponsors, it's, it was like three third quarters of the house and many in the Senate.

If, if a bill with that many co-sponsors had ever been vetoed before, and I don't think it can find one.

I don't, I'm sure it's, but to that end, this is also very unlikely to be overridden.

Would you, would - You say, you know, what's amazing to me is the two top priorities, 1 0 0 1, which is supposed to reform post high school workforce training got gutted.

Okay.

And nu 1, 1 0 0 2, they pass something and then the governor vetoes it and the house members start applauding, or the house leadership starts applauding.

You know, this is a message bill.

That's all it is.

It doesn't have any teeth behind it, unfortunately.

It, it not gonna, it, it doesn't have the impact that legislation with some penalty behind it might have.

And antisemitism is real.

There is no question about that.

Okay.

I have said before, it's the original sin of Europeans.

It is, it started there and it, it's never been put to rest.

And we have to, we have to stand against it.

And that's all this does.

It's just a message bill.

That's all it is.

And we would hope that the people in authority at the, in, in the universities in the K through 12 would be alert to this and take appropriate action if that is being taught or disseminated within the schools.

And that's what it's gonna take to root it out.

- Yeah.

The bill was clearly a message bill.

The proclamation is clearly a message, but is that worth doing anyway?

I mean, is, isn't even sending that message something.

Yeah, - Absolutely.

It's worth doing.

Yeah.

I it, and it frankly could have been done much quicker and easier without legislative efforts.

However, I, but then - What we have talked about on this show for two - Months, well do think though, having nine weeks of discussion about, you know, reminding people about the antisemitism we're seeing and what counts as antisemitism, what doesn't count as antisemitism, that's a good dialogue for the state to have.

So - I, I think we could have asked this if the bill had been signed in the law.

I think we can ask the same question now that the bill has been vetoed and the proclamation has been issued fundamentally, has, will anything change for the people of Indiana?

- No.

No.

As I said in earlier weeks when this came up, I said, you know, hate is real Ann's right?

And, and not just antisemitism, but Islamophobia, there's sorts of, hate is real.

It's with us.

Hate is a bad thing, stipulate that, but trying to stamp it out through, through the legal process, I think is an impossibility.

It just is.

I mean, and, and had this been signed, I'm guessing at some point somewhere there would've been what amounted to a test case where some faculty member was, was censured or some student was either suspended or expelled because of something perceived to run afoul of this statute.

And it would've ended up in court.

In fact, somebody might have actually pushed the issue to get it in court to, and that just will literally re-litigate this over and over and over.

So much time was expended on, on this.

But as I said last week, I understand why, and certainly we, we condemn hate period, flat out bad tell that - To Donald Trump.

- But, but he's not protected by Indians.

No, but he calls - Immigrants in human animals.

That's not hate - It.

But in terms of the, the, the correlation or the ratio between amount of time expended on an issue and the direct tangible, I said tangible impact, aside from messaging, there's, that's the biggest gap.

Yeah.

- Alright.

Former state Commerce secretary Brad Chambers says the number one job of a governor is to grow the economy and increase wages.

And the Republican gubernatorial candidate unveiled his 10 point economic plan this week.

The plan includes tax reform, entrepreneurship support, childcare access and housing availability.

Chambers says, boosting economic growth unlocks so many other possibilities.

- A growing economy allows us to fix education, make sure we have police and fire, make sure that mental health and healthcare is being addressed.

- Part of Chamber's plan includes continuing with the strategies he led during his tenure at the Indiana Economic Development Corporation.

Some of those, most notably the development of the LEAP District in central Indiana, have been sharply criticized by other candidates, some legislators and local leaders.

But while Chambers says he's learned lessons from that experience, he says the state can't stop its work to develop sites in a bid to lure big investment.

- I put us in a position to be ready, right?

With the leap innovation district, we're either gonna focus on high wage careers, growing our economy, keeping our kids and our grandkids in Indiana, or we're not - Early in-person voting for Indiana's primary begins April 9th.

And Delaney Chambers is increasingly positioning himself as the Mitch Daniels candidate in this election.

His new ad, in fact, doesn't, doesn't even El goes beyond illusions.

It's straight up says he's Ronald Reagan and Mitch Daniels, he's, if you like those two, you'll like Brady Chambers.

Can that be a winning strategy?

- You know, you'd almost think they hadn't been in total control for the last 20 years.

I remember Mitch Daniels running in 2004 saying the only measure of success for a governor was income growth.

20 years later, they're like a vinyl record stuck with a needle.

Just keeps going over the same point.

Where have they been?

They've been at war with the unions.

They don't want unions, which of course raises salary.

Nobody's ever talked about increasing the minimum wage, any of the things that might have an impact on wages to get us closer to the national average.

The education system that they've been reforming for 20 years.

The production that that has produced.

I mean, kids are failing in third grade on reading levels.

We have fewer college graduates.

All of these things are done on their watch.

And Mitch Daniels was eight years of that.

Okay.

And then the rest of them all mimicked him, except they went a little bit further to the right on issues involving personal freedoms.

But I don't know whether it can win among Republican primary voters anymore who are to the right of a till of the hun That's the question.

And I don't know whether they can induce people who are quote, independent or leaning Republican independents who don't run in primary or don't vote in primaries ordinarily to come out and support him.

Because I think unfortunately, the vast majority of the Republican primary voters are to the right of Atilla.

The hun on all of the issues.

- It's clear that Brad Chambers has this lane all to himself right?

In this, in this gubernatorial primary.

Can it be - Successful?

It's mathematically possible.

And it's only possible with the rest of the field being what it is.

Yeah.

When you've got, you've got six competing for, I mean, just make the math simple.

It's not a hundred percent of voters that are voting on May 7th.

It's people who identify and turn out in Republican primaries.

That's 35% of the electorate.

It's high thirties self-identifies Republicans in Indiana.

But - How many of them turn out?

So - You, I'm more, I'm more of a vote Republican than that.

- So you need to tattoo, come out, you need to win a plurality of that, which is a very small number of actual voters if you zoom out to the, to the entire electorate.

So my, my thought on Brad Chambers from the beginning was he needs to be like the extreme moderate in the race, which sounds funny, but he needs to go like really embrace moderation.

And the people he got him in the race to begin with are the Mitch Daniel.

It's Mitch Daniel's crowd of people.

Yeah.

You know, like the people that worked for him.

Yeah.

You know, and so his, the whole point was to appeal to, to that audience.

Does he have the time to do it?

Did he do it too late?

Well, is there still a path?

What do all these undecideds do?

What are they waiting for?

They may be waiting for somebody That sounds different, Suzanne.

They may also be waiting, Suzanne's trying to do that.

They - May also be waiting for, to, to pay attention.

I mean, you know, we all pay so much attention to this and have for a long - Time.

It's like, oh, right.

I gotta go vote for Governor.

Yeah's how most voters like the session.

- The session is day before early voting starts April 9th.

Now, I think is the time when a lot of people are going, oh yeah, - There's, yeah.

So I think there's, there's still a path for all of these or for, I would say three of these people.

But, you know, and I think Chambers has gotta just, he's gotta own, you're right.

He's the only guy in that lane.

He's gotta go own it.

And he's gotta be loud and pretty rough up top - Of that.

And what does he do on his social issues?

What does he do - Then?

I think that's part, I think there's, I don't know, one, I don't know.

I don't know what he actually believes in that regard, but if he is a moderate on those things, or if any of these candidates were moderates, that certainly makes you sound different.

If six of 'em are standing on stage and they ask you about abortion, they're all gonna sound identical.

And it's like, all right, well if I'm a, if I'm a abortion motivated voter on either side, - I'm not going there.

- I don't know what to do with that answer.

Right.

I'm not going one direction or the other with that.

Yeah.

- I I, I'm also struck, and we talked a little bit about this I think last week, but I'm struck by the fact that on, you know, the one issue where Chambers is arguably the most vulnerable is of course the LEAP District and the IADC in general, he led for two years, the last two years roughly before leaving about 6, 7, 8 months ago.

And far from, I mean, he couldn't obviously come out and say, oh yeah, I'm against everything I just spent two years doing.

'cause then he'd have nothing to talk about in that regard.

But far from, you know, repudiating what he did, he's not just saying, oh yeah, I did what was right at the time, but now I do something that he's saying, I did it once and I do it again and I'm gonna keep doing it because that's the way to win.

Are you surprised that he's going that far in - That direction?

Not really, because I think that, and this dovetails with what Mike just said, that's what he has to do.

He, it's only option.

It's only option.

He can't say, I had an epiphany since I left that office.

I saw a vision and it didn't involve the LEAP district.

I was, I repudiate all that.

Well, at the same - Time though, Suzanne Crouch, who's never said a word about COVID-19, well now it's, I I - Don't Agree with, I mean, to a certain extent, he, that was his, his baby.

Yes, that's true.

So I think I agree from a strategic standpoint, the way to stand out is to, whether it's social issues, whether it's economic issues, be different, be distinct, and, and it's, it's as crazy as that sounds, it's basically being what Bob Orr was when Bob Orr was running for reelection against Wayne Townsend and a woman named Dan Delaney.

It's what John Mutts did when, when they were running against Evan bi.

It's what, just go down the line.

I never would've thought that I had seen the time when economic development and job creation was the, with the wedge issue in the Republican primary.

If there was one thing I always thought was a rallying cry for Republicans, it's job creation is good, economic development is good, and now it breaks down along who's making those decisions.

Yeah.

Is it done behind closed doors?

Is it the elite?

Yes.

Is it helping?

Yes.

- Is it a top down approach or is - It, or is it help?

Does it, does it overlook the agrarian portion of our state and in favor of certain, he, - He's doing something though to try to back off a little bit by having a water council or whatever the heck he's calling it out there, admitting the fact that they didn't, didn't consider the water issues before they went ahead with it - At this point is, is this Brad Chambers trying to make his move?

Is that what we're starting to see?

Yeah.

- And I mean, it's a, it's a good move on his part, but he's gonna have to like do it times a hundred.

Yeah.

Like, you know, he's gonna have to go full on and not just dip in a little.

Yeah.

And he did mention the, the water czar, if you wanna call it, you know, and I do think in that press conference he was at, he did make one small concession that maybe his approach to leap would've been different.

Absolutely.

And I do think that's been a lot of the issue is what, you know, it was transparent, it wasn't transparent, it was secretive.

Yeah.

You know, that kind of thing.

- Didn't engage with local leaders, local folks enough.

Exactly.

There's - A lot of similarities to the major moves to least of the toll road.

- He's, and he's making that comparison.

- It's very similar to that because that was a, that was a wild idea.

No one had ever heard of it before.

And this is the same thing, you know, it's just, it's new.

So there you have controversy over the, the water issues and the utility issues - He's drawn.

That - Reminds me.

See it, it's like Mike pick when he was running for president a few months back, distant memory now seems foggy.

And he was very careful early on, didn't want to distance himself too much from his former boss, Donald Trump.

But then he finally said, I'm gonna double down.

I'm gonna own the fact that I was a dissenter, that I upheld the, the vote and decided that I didn't have the right to sidetrack it.

And of course he did that well a week before.

I think he dropped out of, well, at at least point being that you need to do it early and you need to, especially, you know, something like this.

Hit it hard.

Hit it hard.

Don't just wait till the last minute.

- Alright.

Republican gubernatorial candidate Jamie Riau says local television stations should correct the injustice of excluding her from primary debates.

Fox 59, CCBs four, and Wish TV will both host debate next week for Indiana's, GOP gubernatorial Primary Fox 59 CCBs four.

And Wish TV will both host debates for Indiana's Republican gubernatorial primary to get into those debates, local Fox CBS owner nexstar requires candidates to have reached at least 5% in public polling and a hundred thousand dollars in campaign contributions.

That bar's both written our and former attorney General Curtis Hill Wish TV's criteria aren't publicly available.

Though Ritenour has said it's a $300,000 contribution requirement.

Some of the other candidates have called on the stations to include all candidates on the ballot.

But Ritenour says some, including US Senator Mike Braun, considered the front runner have been silent.

- If the candidates will not stand for what is right now, why would Hoosiers believe they will stand for Hoosiers later?

- Ritenour points out that in the poll, nexstar is using to exclude her.

43% of people were undecided on the race.

Nikki Kelly, to you, is there any acceptable argument for leaving candidates who will appear on the ballot out of a debate?

- Yeah.

In terms of democracy, no.

You know, we want everyone who met that same threshold to be able to get their voice out logistically.

And, you know, from the standpoint of how you control six candidates, how you try to make sure everyone has rebuttal, how long a debate can go before viewers tune out.

But, you know, I get all those logistical questions journalistically, it's hard to cover something with six candidates and try to make sure everyone has, you know, some sort of say and some sort of, you know, placement in the story.

So logistically I get it, but you can't do it in terms of, you know, democracy and trying to make sure everyone has all the information they need to make a vote.

Well, and - Also I think it's one thing when media organizations before a filing deadline, say, are trying to make decisions about, you know, listen, you only have so much time and so many resources and anybody can say they're running for X, Y, or Z, but how do we, how do we establish any sort of credibility to that?

These are people who are, they've already met that threshold by getting on the ballot, have they not?

Which is not easy in Indiana.

No, that's right.

No, that's right.

I mean, 4,500 signatures, 500 from each congressional district.

That is hard to do.

Registered voters, registered voters, excuse, excuse me, - The other, you gotta have the threshold standard, the signature threshold standard or the public polling and where you're high performing and how much money you're raising.

You can't, you can't do both of 'em.

I already did this really hard thing to get on the ballot.

Now I'm not included in the public publicly funded debate.

Right.

And - Also, - Suzanne was absolutely right the way she came out on that.

- And I'll say too, I mean, you know, in terms of the criteria that they're using now, wish hasn't made there theirs public.

It's, we're relying on what Riau is saying is the criteria.

But I mean, using fundraising is a market.

That's - Thing if you're gonna use criteria to your point, even before you know, the first candidate, and I know that this is impractical because you don't even know if you're gonna sponsor a debate.

But get those, those factors, those criteria out there so that everybody knows what the, the rules of the game are.

Rules of engagement before they get there.

You guys always gimme grief when I use this form to plug Indiana lawmakers.

So I'm gonna won't plug Indiana lawmakers today.

I'm gonna plug the Indiana Debate Commission debate.

You just did.

- Thank you.

And also I, Nikki and I both appear - Indiana lawmaker.

Thank So that may be the one.

Lemme finish my gratuitous plug.

Yes.

So on the Indiana Debate commission debate on the 23rd, which happens to be moderated by me, all, all of the candidates are, are welcome and presumably will be participating.

- Alright, time now for viewer feedback.

Each week we pose an unscientific online poll question.

And this week's question is, should gubernatorial candidates be excluded from debates based on polling or fundraising numbers?

A yes or B?

No.

Last week we asked you whether Indiana lawmakers struck the right balance on the antisemitism bill.

I don't know if Governor Eric Holcomb voted, but he was in the minority because 78% of you said yes.

22% said no.

I will note there was about double the number of people who participated in that survey last week than normally do.

If you'd like to take part in the poll, go to wfyi.org/iwi and look for the poll.

Well, this week, US Senator Mike Braun picked up what could be a key endorsement in his campaign for governor, the Indiana State Police Alliance, which represents more than 2000 active and retired state troopers.

The alliance says Mike Braun will always have its back and praised his work in the US Senate on some legislative issues vital to law enforcement.

Braun says he's humbled and honored by the alliance's support and noted he'd also been endorsed by the National Troopers Coalition.

Braun has faced sharp criticism during the campaign from his fellow Republican candidates for authoring a bill a few years ago that would've dramatically reformed qualified immunity, which acts as a shield against litigation for police.

John Wanis, how endorsements everybody gets a lot of endorsements.

There's a question of how impactful they are anymore if they come with money or, you know, grassroots organizing, obviously more important.

But because of how folks have been attacking Mike Braun, how important was this particular endorsement?

- Well, and that's what this has to do with, is what he proposed back in 2020 and the Senate in terms of qualified immunity and sort of the blanket protection for police.

He backed away from that under pressure from Tucker Carlson pretty quickly and blistering.

Yeah, ahead.

Yeah.

So he withdrew that and he is been basically trying to make good with conservatives in the party ever since it's is a, this is a retread, but I mean, that's why this came out this week because of these, this criticism.

But keep in mind that the alliance here in Indiana is a member, one of 43 members of the National Troopers Coalition.

And in fact, if you look at the executive committee of the National Troopers Coalition, one fifth of the membership of the executive committee happens to be the leadership of the Indiana State Police Alliance.

So basically that endorsement came, I think the date on the letter was September 23rd.

Yeah.

Been there, done that.

It's over.

So there's no reason other than to try to generate some extra reminders that police that, you know, the blue line is behind me.

If it's a, from a practical standpoint, there was no other outcome for this, given what the na the parent organization had done.

So, but I but politically does that mean you shouldn't do it?

I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, it's just, I mean, - How important was it to, for, for Braun to essentially remind people of that?

- Oh yeah.

He needed to remind people.

Eric Doden especially has been hitting him with new ads about his qualified immunity stance.

And you know, I'm not sure that it's necessarily gonna, you know, if it's only 2000 people, I'm not sure that's gonna break the bank.

But you also have to remember in endorsements, you know, if they see the writing on the wall, that bro's gonna be the - Governor.

Yeah.

That's, that's all, that's all it is.

You - Get behind the one who's gonna be in charge and giving you a raise.

- Yeah.

Is that some of that too, that, that - It's as cynical as that, that's all it is.

And and if somebody else were ahead of the endorsement would've been different.

I don't think it has any impact at all.

Of - Course the irony is that the original Braun position, the one he abandoned, would've been more the most popular probably in the general election.

Oh yeah.

But who cares about that, I guess, - I mean, know why It's a knock on Braun to say, well, you just gotta it 'cause you're gonna win.

It's like, great.

- I'm sure he's thrilled - They got it because they thought he's gonna win.

That doesn't mean he's gonna win.

- Well, I'll say this, we'll - Find out.

But I mean, it's, - Are you surprised that, I mean, so far that seems to, other than the, well, you know, you say you're a businessman, but you've been in elected office for a long time and you went to Washington, didn't get anything done in then hour coming back here.

That's, that's been a little bit of that, but are you surprised they haven't been hitting Mike Braun on much else besides this, which this seemingly now negates?

- It, it totally negates.

I think it completely negates.

Yeah.

I mean, because you're gonna watch, you're gonna watch the Tucker Tucker Carlson ad Yeah.

You're gonna about to see, I'm sure, but an a an endorsement of the Indiana State Police Yeah.

Of Mike Braun side by side.

So, I mean, if you're, if you're a voter, you're like, wait a minute, what, what are you talking about?

- So in your mind, state police - Behind this guy voter is gonna put the two of them together and make that assumption - When you see 'em back to back.

I don't - Think every 30 - For the next two.

I was just gonna say, - You're, I mean, at this point though, I mean, are we, are you surprised we haven't seen more attacks on Mike Brown because he is considered the front.

I think - They're probably coming.

He is a legislative wrecker when, when he was a state legislator too.

And they haven't even gone after that at all yet.

- Yeah.

- All right, well finally we're gonna end, unfortunately, on a sad note, our condolences go out to the family of state Senator Gene Bro, who passed away this week.

Bro was a champion of reproductive rights, improving black infant and maternal mortality, access to healthy food and food deserts and more.

Bro, bro had served in the Senate for more than 17 years.

First elected in 20 2006 to the seat her mother occupied before her.

Obviously, it's tough to say, you know, she was in the Senate Democratic Caucus, which can only be so influential in the Indiana General Assembly.

But I feel like a lot of, you know, seeing the response is still an impactful legislator, wouldn't you say?

- Yeah.

I mean, she was great to work with across, you know, political lines and was really just a pleasure.

I think as a colleague, that's what we've seen coming from - Lots of people of people.

She was a lovely woman, you know, which is something that can be missing.

Lovely woman, gentleman, whatever it is in the Gen Indiana General Assembly.

She was, she was a pleasure to work with and she, she remembered the things that were important to her constituents and she argued for 'em.

She may not have gotten them all the time, but didn't stop her.

- And also note that a friend of the show, Joey Fox, noted that, you know, as a lobbyist, he said he always knew he had to be extra prepared going into meetings with Gene bro because she knew stuff.

- She always has questions and, and a lot of what we did, I worked closely with Joey on a lot of healthcare issues, health policy issues and what's lost in a lot of this, this conversations, yes, sometimes Democrats have 10 members, but most of what comes through those committees is not partisan.

It is not putting an RD next to it.

Right.

And so you do have to go create consensus among all members.

Yeah.

And she was always someone that was, he was, he's right.

Was gonna ask you questions.

We used to kind of joke, it's, there were times she'd kind of sound like the most conservative one in the room where she'd be like, I don't know what the government should be doing this.

- Alright, that's Indiana we can review for this week.

Our panel is Democrat and Delaney Republican, Mike O'Brien, John Schwan of Indiana Lawmakers, and Nikki Kelly of the Indiana Capital Chronicle.

You can find Indiana.

We can review podcast and episodes at wfyi.org/iwi or on the PBS app.

I'm Brandon Smith of Indiana Public Broadcasting.

Join us next time because a lot can happen in an Indiana Week.

- The opinions expressed are solely those of the panelists.

Indiana, we can review is A-W-F-Y-I production in association with Indiana's public broadcasting stations.