>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE  YOU.

>> Lou: THIS WEEK ON NEW  MEXICO IN FOCUS, INCHING TOWARD A SPECIAL SESSION.

GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM TALKS TO US ABOUT THE  BILLS SHE HOPES TO GET PASSED AS SHE NEGOTIATES WITH LEGISLATIVE LEADERSHIP.

>> Governor: WE HAVE A LOT OF  PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUES THAT STILL REQUIRE, IN MY VIEW,  IMMEDIATE AND DRAMATIC ATTENTION.

>> Lou: AND ALBUQUERQUE SPORTS WRITER JEFF GRAMMER COMES OFF  THE BENCH TO PUT THIS YEAR'S ROLLER COASTER LOBO BASKETBALL  SEASON INTO PERSPECTIVE.

NEW MEXICO INFOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I AM SENIOR PRODUCER LOU DIVIZIO.

IT MAY BE LESS THAN 50 DAYS SINCE THIS YEAR'S LEGISLATIVE  SESSION WRAPPED BUT GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM IS  PUSHING HARD FOR A RETURN TO THE ROUND HOUSE THIS SPRING.

DURING AN INTERVIEW LAST WEEK WITH THE SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN,  THE GOVERNOR SAID THAT SHE IS LEANING 80-20 TOWARDS  ANNOUNCING A SPECIAL SESSION CENTERED ON WHAT SHE CALLS PUBLIC SAFETY MEASURES.

FOUR PREVIOUSLY INTRODUCED  BILLS ARE AT THE FRONT OF THE GOVERNOR'S AGENDA, INCLUDING  LEGISLATION THAT WOULD RESTRICT PANHANDLING.

THIS WEEK I HAD A CHANCE TO SPEAK WITH THE GOVERNOR TO  DISCUSS HER PLANS AND ALSO TO ASK WHETHER SHE BELIEVES THAT  SHE HAS THE VOTES TO GET WHAT SHE WANTS DONE.

>> Lou: GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM, THANK YOU SO  MUCH FOR JOINING ME.

>> Governor: THANK YOU VERY  MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

I APPRECIATE THE WORK THAT YOU  DO AND ALWAYS HAPPY TO PARTICIPATE IN GIVING UPDATED  INFORMATION TO THE PUBLIC.

>> Lou: THANK YOU.

SO, WE ARE HERE TO TALK ABOUT A SPECIAL SESSION OR THE  PROSPECT OF ONE.

LAST WEEK YOU SPOKE WITH INEZ RUSSELL GOMEZ FROM THE SANTA  FE NEW MEXICAN AND TOLD YOU WERE ABOUT 80 PERCENT ON  CALLING ONE.

HAVE YOU GOTTEN TO 100% YET AS  WE SPEAK HERE ON WEDNESDAY?

>> Governor: I HAVEN'T.

AND I THINK IT BEARS TALKING ABOUT WHY.

IT IS A DECISION I CAN MAKE.

I HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO  THAT AS GOVERNOR IN THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO, SO, WHY NOT  JUST DECIDE.

YOU KNOW, PART OF IT, I WANT  TO BE SUCCESSFUL FOR THE PUBLIC, RIGHT.

WE HAVE A LOT OF PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUES THAT STILL REQUIRE, IN  MY VIEW, IMMEDIATE AND DRAMATIC ATTENTION.

AND WHAT I WANT IS THESE STRATEGIES TO GET THROUGH A  VERY NARROW, VERY TIGHT SPECIAL SESSION.

I HAVE BEEN -- I HAVE PARTICIPATED WITH MANY  GOVERNORS IN SPECIAL SESSIONS THAT ARE ALL OVER THE MAP AND  THEN NOTHING GETS DONE.

AND THEN YOU HAVE EVEN LESS  OPPORTUNITY TO GET PEOPLE BACK TO A GOOD BASELINE FOR THE  NEXT GENERAL SESSION.

I AM STILL ABOUT 80 THERE, BUT  I THINK WHAT I COULD DO TODAY AND WANT TO DO, FRANKLY, IS WE  HAVE BEEN MEETING WITH LEGISLATORS MORE OFTEN.

WE ARE DRAFTING PROPOSALS AND I WOULD LOVE TO TALK TO YOU  ABOUT THE FIVE OR SO PROPOSALS THAT WE THINK, IF PASSED AND  IMPLEMENTED IMMEDIATELY, COULD HAVE A DRAMATIC EFFECT ON THE  CONTINUATION OF PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUES THAT NEW MEXICANS ARE  UNFORTUNATELY WELL AWARE OF.

>> Lou: LET'S TALK ABOUT THE  SPECIFIC MEASURES.

WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU TRYING TO  GET PASSED IF YOU DO CALL A SPECIAL SESSION?

>> Governor: THERE WERE TWO MEASURES THAT DIDN'T GET  THROUGH.

ONE THAT I THINK HAD A LITTLE  MORE MOMENTUM BUT IT -- IT IS NOT LIKE IT HAD BROAD SUPPORT  AND WAS MISSING, YOU KNOW, ONE OR TWO VOTES AT THE VERY END.

BUT IT WAS AT LEAST MOVING.

THAT ONE IS CALLED CRIMINAL  COMPETENCY.

WHAT THIS MEASURE DOES IS IT  ALLOWS A JUDGE IN A SETTING WHERE A PARTICULAR DEFENDANT,  A REPEAT OFFENDER, DRUG ISSUES, THEFT ISSUES,  POTENTIALLY EVEN A VIOLENT OFFENDER, REACTIONS TO  ALCOHOL, DRUGS, TRAUMA, MAY BE LIVING ON THE STREETS, MAY  NOT, THEY CAN SEND THEM THROUGH A DRUG COURT.

THEY CAN DO OUTPATIENT TREATMENT.

NOBODY EVER STICKS WITH IT, RIGHT.

YOU'RE RIGHT BACK IN.

IT IS A REVOLVING DOOR.

A COMPETENCY BILL ALLOWS A JUDGE TO IDENTIFY, BASED ON  THE EVIDENCE, THAT THEY DON'T MEET THOSE COMPETENCY ISSUES  AND IF ONE OF THE APPROPRIATE MEASURES IS TO DO A PLACEMENT  IN, SAY, A BEHAVIORAL HEALTH TREATMENT FACILITY OR DRUG  ADDICTION FACILITY, THEY CAN DO THAT FOR AN EXTENDED AMOUNT  OF TIME.

THE DATA SHOWS THAT WHEN YOU  HAVE A SENTENCE LIKE THAT, BY THE TIME YOU DETOX, GET THE  RIGHT SUPPORT, GET THE RIGHT MEDICATION, GET THE RIGHT  DIAGNOSES, SPEND 90 DAYS OR SOMETIMES MORE, WE SEE AROUND  THE COUNTRY THAT THAT IS HAVING THE IMPACT THAT WE  NEED.

WHILE WE CAN DO BEHAVIORAL  HEALTH IN JAIL, IT IS NOT A CONDUCIVE LONG-LASTING  INTERVENTION.

AND WHAT WE WANT ARE  INTERVENTIONS THAT STOP THIS REVOLVING DOOR.

THAT IS A CRITICAL TOOL.

SECOND ONE IS THAT A FELON IN  POSSESSION, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE LIFT THAT TO A SECOND  DEGREE FELONY.

WE WANT TO EXTEND THE  PENALTIES.

IN THE CASE THAT I HAVE MADE  TO SOME LEGISLATORS WHO MIGHT SAY TO ME, MAYBE THERE IS NOT  ENOUGH BODY OF EVIDENCE THAT SUGGESTS THAT THAT IS A  DETERRENT.

AND I DON'T KNOW THAT I AGREE  WITH THAT, BUT LET'S SAY THEY ARE RIGHT AND I WAS TO DO THAT  RESEARCH.

BUT, IF YOU GET SOMEONE WHO  HAS CONTINUED TO COMMIT CRIMES WHO ISN'T MEETING THE TERMS OF  THEIR FELONY PROBATION, WHO HAS A FIREARM, THEY ARE NOT  OUT COMMITTING CRIME FOR THAT ADDITIONAL FIVE TO SEVEN  YEARS, AND IN A CITY AND IN A STATE THAT IS SEEING HIGH  CRIME LEVELS, THIS SEEMS TO ME TO BE A PRODUCTIVE MEASURE OF  BOTH ACCOUNTABILITY ON PUBLIC SAFETY ON THE OTHER SIDE.

THOSE ARE BOTH BILLS THAT WERE INTRODUCED BUT DID NOT GET  UPSTAIRS.

SO, I AM PARTICULARLY  INTERESTED IN THOSE TWO.

THIRD ONE THAT IS GOING TO  TAKE MORE WORK, WAS INTRODUCED IN THE SESSION, A LOT OF  QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW IT WORKS.

AND IT IS A PEDESTRIAN SAFETY  BILL OR BASICALLY A TRAFFIC SAFETY BILL THAT GETS AT SOME  OF THE PANHANDLING ON OUR BUSY INTERSECTIONS.

THERE ARE SEVERAL MUNICIPALITIES THAT, IN FACT,  HAVE PRODUCED LEGISLATION THAT HAS BEEN UPHELD IN COURT.

THAT HAS BEEN THE ISSUE ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT YOU'RE  VIOLATING A FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT.

THE ESPANOLA CITY BILL OR STATUTE, ORDINANCE, I AM GOING  TO SAY THAT RIGHT, THIS ORDINANCE LOOKS LIKE IT HAS  GOT ALL THE FOUNDATIONAL UNDERPINNINGS OF A  CONSTITUTIONAL MEASURE THAT CREATES BETTER PUBLIC SAFETY  IN THOSE SPACES AND ALLOWS US TO HANDLE THAT A BIT BETTER.

>> Lou: LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THAT.

CAN I ASK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE.

THE UNDERPINNINGS THAT YOU TALK ABOUT, THE CONSTITUTIONAL  CONCERNS, TO MY UNDERSTANDING, LINK BACK TO A 2015 SUPREME  COURT RULING REED VERSUS TOWN OF GILBERT WHICH CITES  PANHANDLING AS A MATTER OF PROTECTED SPEECH.

WHY DO YOU THINK THIS BILL IS DIFFERENT ENOUGH TO BE  CONSTITUTIONAL?

>> Governor: BECAUSE IT HAS A  SEGUE TO PUBLIC SAFETY.

LIKE ANYTHING, INCLUDING FREE  SPEECH, YOU CAN'T ELIMINATE PANHANDLING BUT YOU CAN  MINIMIZE PUBLIC SAFETY IMPACTS RELATED TO PANHANDLING AND  THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE HERE.

SO, THE MEASURES THAT WERE  BROUGHT OR THE ISSUE BEFORE THAT PARTICULAR COURT IN THAT  PARTICULAR COURT SETTING IS THAT THEY TRIED TO ELIMINATE  PANHANDLING IN A COMMUNITY.

YOU CAN'T ELIMINATE IT.

SO THOSE ARE THREE PROVISIONS THAT I DIDN'T GET UPSTAIRS  THAT I THINK ARE WORTH REVISITING THAT I THINK CAN  HAVE A MONUMENTAL IMPACT ON A VARIETY OF PUBLIC SAFETY  ISSUES.

HERE ARE TWO MORE, IF YOU CAN  STAND ME.

>> SURE.

>> TWO MORE, LOU, THAT I THINK CAN REALLY HAVE -- MAKE AN  IMPACT HERE.

LIKE THE CRIMINAL COMPETENCY,  WE SHOULD DO A CIVIL COMMITMENT.

AND SO IN THE DEBATE THAT WE HAVE AS NEW MEXICANS, ANOTHER  POLICYMAKER, ANOTHER ELECTED LEADER, DISMANTLED BEHAVIORAL  HEALTH AND WE HAVE BEEN SUFFERING THROUGH TRYING TO  PUT IT BACK, COVID AND ANY NUMBER OF EMERGENCIES.

AND THERE IS A SENSE, AND IT IS TRUE, THAT THERE IS NOT  ENOUGH ENTRY POINTS.

BUT, NOW THE STANDARD FOR  MANAGED CARE ORGANIZATIONS IS THEY ARE PAID TO SOLVE THAT  PROBLEM, SO, THEY CAN -- THERE IS A NUMBER OF OPPORTUNITIES  THAT WE HAVE THROUGH A NEW CONTRACT RELATIONSHIP AND SET  OF MEASURES AND ACCOUNTABILITY ASPECTS WITH THEM.

BUT THAT IS NOT REALLY THE ISSUE FOR PUBLIC SAFETY  ISSUES.

THE ISSUE IS, IF YOU ARE, AS  AN EXAMPLE, LIVING UNHOUSED AND YOU HAVE VIOLENT  TENDENCIES AND YOU'RE SELF MEDICATING, AND YOU ARE  INVOLVED IN RETAIL THEFT, I DON'T WANT THIS PERSON IN  JAIL.

WHAT WE WANT IS THIS PERSON TO  GET SUCCESSFULLY TREATED IN A BEHAVIORAL HEALTH SETTING,  BOTH GET THE ADDICTION DEALT WITH AND DEAL WITH WHATEVER  THAT MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE IS.

THESE ARE INDIVIDUALS THAT  CANNOT GO BY THEMSELVES, WILL NOT GO.

I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY PARENTS I TALK TO OF 18 YEAR  OLDS, THEY ARE NOT UNHOUSED, PER SE, AND THEY WON'T GO GET  SUBSTANCE ABUSE TREATMENT.

YOU CAN'T MAKE THEM GO.

CALIFORNIA HAS PASSED A CIVIL COMMITMENT BILL, AGAIN, THAT I  THINK SHOWS GREAT PROMISE FOR A STATE LIKE NEW MEXICO WITH A  GROWING BEHAVIORAL HEALTH POPULATION SITUATION.

AND IT ALLOWS FOR UP TO 90 DAYS, MAYBE TWICE, WHERE  YOU'RE COMMITTED TO A PROGRAM OR A FACILITY.

TWO, IT CREATES RUNWAYS AND REQUIREMENTS FOR LOCAL BODIES  OF GOVERNMENT TO CREATE SUPPORT SERVICES AND TO BE  RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT SOCIAL SERVICES BEHAVIORAL HEALTH  NETWORK OR INFRASTRUCTURE.

AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE NEW  MEXICO PASS THAT BILL.

I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ANOTHER  YEAR-AND-A-HALF TO WAIT GIVEN THE NUMBER OF ADDICTED  POPULATIONS WE ARE SEEING, NOT BE ABLE TO MANAGE THEIR LIVES  AND HAVE IMPACT ON THE QUALITY OF LIVES OF OTHER NEW MEXICANS  AND CREATE, EITHER BECAUSE THEY ARE TARGETS OF CRIME OR  ENGAGED IN CRIME, EATING, DRUGS, ALCOHOL, WHATEVER THAT  IS.

BUT, I THINK THAT IS A VERY  VALUABLE MEASURE THAT NEW MEXICO NEEDS TODAY, FRANKLY,  MORE THAN EVER.

>> LOU: ON THOSE SPECIFIC  BILLS, WE HAVE THE CRIMINAL COMPETENCY, FELON IN  POSSESSION, THE PANHANDLING THAT YOU'RE CLASSIFYING AS  MORE OF A PUBLIC SAFETY ROADWAY SITUATION,  CIVIL COMMITMENT.

YOU HAVE TALKED ABOUT SOME  ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE BUT WHAT ARE THE SPECIFIC PROBLEMS THAT  YOU ARE HOPING TO ELIMINATE WITH THOSE FOUR MEASURES?

>> Governor: A GROWING POPULATION THAT IS UNHOUSED OR  DRUG ADDICTED WITHOUT ANY SERVICES.

SUPPORT SYSTEMS FOR FAMILIES, THAT WE ARE NOT PUTTING PEOPLE  IN JAIL AS THE ONLY TREATMENT MODALITY THAT IS AVAILABLE FOR  THESE HIGH RISK POPULATIONS, THAT WHERE WE HAVE COMPLAINTS,  IT HAS HAPPENED TO ME PERSONALLY.

I AM GOING TO BET IT HAS HAPPENED TO MEMBERS OF YOUR  TEAM WHERE YOU WORK, WHERE SOMEONE IS CHASING THE CAR OR  OUTSIDE WITH A CROWBAR, A MACHETE, A TWO BY FOUR, TRYING  TO PUSH INTO YOU WITH A SHOPPING CART.

THESE ARE REAL RISKS THAT ARE CAUSING THE POTENTIAL  INCREASED ISSUES FOR ROAD RAGE AND ANY NUMBER OF OTHER  ISSUES.

SO, I AM LOOKING TO ATTENUATE  THAT BEHAVIOR.

IF YOU ARE ALSO LOOKING AT THE  RETAIL THEFT, I WOULD SAY I HAVEN'T BEEN ANYWHERE IN  ALBUQUERQUE AT A PHARMACY OR A SMALL STRIP MALL STORE OR SHOP  THAT I HAVEN'T SEEN A THEFT IN PROGRESS IN 18 TO 24 MONTHS,  STRAIGHT.

ANYWHERE.

I JUST DID IT YESTERDAY.

AND I SAW TWO.

AND WHAT HAPPENS IS, THE PEOPLE IN THE STORE ARE ON  HIGH ALERT, THE PEOPLE ALSO TRYING TO SHOP ARE ON HIGH  ALERT AND INTIMIDATED.

WE HAVE SEEN GUNS AND  FIREARMS -- THAT IS THE SAME THING -- AND KNIVES AND OTHER  WEAPONS DRAWN.

I SAW SOME SOMEONE YESTERDAY  THAT BROUGHT IN SEVERAL ANIMALS THAT GOT INTO A FIGHT  IN THE STORE.

A CHILD WAS SCREAMING AND  RUNNING.

IT SEEMS TO ME A BROKEN  WINDOW, BROKEN DOORS, PEOPLE WHO FEEL UNSAFE WORKING THERE,  THIS HAS TO BE INTERRUPTED BY LOOKING AT WAYS TO HELP PEOPLE  GET BETTER AND TO MAYBE GET AT SOME OF THE ROOT CAUSES,  THEREBY BEING ABLE TO FOCUS ON SOME OF THE MORE SERIOUS,  VIOLENT CRIMES IN THE COMMUNITY.

IT LOOKS TO ME THAT ALL OF THESE MEASURES BY OTHER STATES  ARE ALSO LOOKING AND UTILIZING THESE MEASURES THAT IT DOES  HAVE AN IMPACT IN HELPING PEOPLE, BEING COMPASSIONATE,  BEING EVIDENCE BASED AND THEN TO FOCUS YOUR PUBLIC SAFETY  TEAMS, POLICE AND FIRST RESPONDERS, ON THE MORE  SERIOUS ISSUES SO THAT WE ARE NOT STRETCHED SO THIN.

BECAUSE THAT IS ALSO A MAJOR ISSUE THAT NEW MEXICANS ARE  GRAPPLING WITH.

>> Lou: COULD YOU TALK A  LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE TANGIBLE IMPACTS THAT NEW  MEXICANS COULD EXPECT IF ANY OF THESE MEASURES WERE TO  PASS.

>> Governor: WELL, LESS PEOPLE  ON THE STREETS WHO APPEAR TO BE HIGH RISK.

MORE PEOPLE GETTING TREATMENT SO IT IS NOT A REVOLVING DOOR  IN OUR CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

MORE ACCESS POINTS FOR BEHAVIORAL HEALTH BECAUSE THEY  ARE BEING BUILT BY LOCAL BODIES OF GOVERNMENT AND  MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS IN THE STATE IN REALTIME.

OPPORTUNITIES FOR US TO BUILD MEANINGFUL AFFORDABLE HOUSING  TO DEAL -- SO AS PEOPLE GET TREATED, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE A  PLACE TO LAND THAT IS PRODUCTIVE AND FAIR AND  SUPPORTIVE.

ALL OF THAT HAS, I THINK, AN  IMMEASURABLE IMPACT ON BOTH PUBLIC SAFETY AND ON QUALITY  OF LIFE FOR EVERYONE IN NEW MEXICO.

AND I BELIEVE THEY DO HAVE AN IMPACT.

IF YOU JUST HEAR THE TESTIMONY FROM THE JUDGES WHO SEE THE  SAME INDIVIDUALS IN THE COURTROOM OVER AND OVER AGAIN  OR IF YOU TALK TO POLICE OFFICERS, THEY WILL TELL YOU  THAT THEY GET CALLED, SOMEONE HAS BEEN THREATENED, THEY PICK  UP SOMEBODY WHO IS -- HAS CLEARLY A DRUG ADDICTION  ISSUE, TESTS POSITIVE FOR DRUGS AND IS BEFORE THE COURT.

IT IS THE TENTH TIME.

THEY ARE MISDEMEANORS.

THEY ARE RIGHT BACK OUT AND COMMIT ANOTHER MISDEMEANOR AND  WE HAVE THIS REVOLVING DOOR.

SO POLICE SAY, I AM NOT GOING  TO ENGAGE IN THIS COMMUNITY ISSUE ANYMORE BECAUSE IT MAKES  NO DIFFERENCE.

AND IT GROWS AND IT IS GROWING  EXPONENTIALLY.

AND THAT HAS TO BE INTERRUPTED  IN MEANINGFUL WAYS.

AND AGAIN IT ALSO ALLOWS OUR  FIRST RESPONDERS TO FOCUS ON SOME OF THE MORE SERIOUS  PATTERNS OF CRIME AND SOME OF THE MORE SERIOUS VIOLENT  CRIMES IN OUR COMMUNITY.

>> Lou: GETTING BACK TO THE  SPECIAL.

YOU MENTIONED AT THE TOP OF  THE CONVERSATION ABOUT CONVERSATIONS WITH LEGISLATIVE  LEADERSHIP, HOW THOSE ARE GOING, MAKING SURE YOU HAVE  ENOUGH VOTES.

WHAT DO YOU EXPECT TO CHANGE  IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS THAT HASN'T HAPPENED IN ABOUT THE  LAST THREE MONTHS SINCE YOU KIND OF TESTED THE WATERS WITH  THE IDEA OF A SESSION?

ARE YOU HAVING PRODUCTIVE  CONVERSATIONS WITH BOTH MEMBERS OF YOUR OWN PARTY AND  THE GOP?

>> Governor: I BELIEVE SO.

WE ARE WORKING -- IT IS OCCURRING, WORK GROUPS BY  CHAIRS OF KEY COMMITTEES HAVE ALREADY BEGUN PREPARING FOR A  SPECIAL SESSION CALL SO THAT WE HAVE BILLS THAT THERE IS  MORE AGREEMENT THAN NOT.

SO THAT AS YOU GO INTO A  SPECIAL SESSION, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SPENDING REALTIME AND  PARTICIPATING IN THE DRAFTING AND FINAL DOCUMENTS FOR  PRESENTATION TO THE LEGISLATURE IF,   IN FACT, WE DO A SPECIAL SESSION.

AND THAT IS WHAT IS DIFFERENT.

WE ARE JUST FOCUSED ON A  HANDFUL OF BILLS.

EVERYONE HAS NOTICE.

THE KEY COMMITTEE CHAIRS AND EXPERTS ARE ALREADY WORKING ON  THEM.

AND YOU HAVE A MUCH MORE  FOCUSED CONCENTRATED EFFORT.

AND, ASSUMING SUCCESS, AND WE  HAVE HAD BY AND LARGE VERY SUCCESSFUL SPECIAL SESSIONS,  THEN THOSE MEASURES ARE READY FOR IMPLEMENTATION THE SECOND  AFTER THE SPECIAL SESSION ENDS, RIGHT.

THE SECOND I SIGN THEM, THEY ARE READY TO GO WHICH MEANS WE  ARE BUILDING AND DOING SOMETHING IMMEDIATE.

IF YOU WAIT FOR A 60-DAY, THEN THOSE MEASURES OFTEN AREN'T  EMERGENCIES.

THEY DON'T PUT AN EMERGENCY  CLAUSE ON IT AND MEET THE REQUIREMENT FOR THAT.

THEN THEY ARE NOT AVAILABLE FOR IMPLEMENTATION UNTIL THE  NEXT JULY.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A FULL  YEAR PLUS FROM RIGHT NOW PLUS THAT RUNWAY FOR  IMPLEMENTATION, WHICH IS THREE MONTHS OR SO.

SO, THE WAY I AM LOOKING AT IT, YOU LOSE ANOTHER  YEAR-AND-A-HALF TO A YEAR AND SIX MONTHS OR MORE -- I SAID  THAT ALREADY -- A YEAR, ALMOST TWO YEARS, AND WE DON'T HAVE  ENOUGH TIME WITH ALL OF THE THINGS -- I JUST SEE ALL THIS  RISK BUILDING AND THE CALL VOLUMES AROUND THE STATE SPEAK  FOR THEMSELVES.

>> Lou: WHAT IS THE TIME FRAME  FOR A DECIDING THAT YOU WANT TO CALL A SPECIAL SESSION, AND  HOW LONG A SPECIAL SESSION COULD LAST?

>> Governor: TYPICALLY -- I'LL DO THE LATTER QUESTION FIRST.

A SPECIAL SESSION SHOULDN'T LAST MORE THAN, YOU KNOW,  THREE DAYS'ISH.

IT IS GOING TO DEPEND.

IT DEPENDS ON IF WE AGREE AS A TEAM ON THREE BILLS OR FIVE  BILLS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, IN THAT A WEEK,  NO MORE, BUT IT SHOULD BE LESS, SO YOU TRY TO GET IT,  FOR ME, THREE TO FOUR DAYS IS ENOUGH TIME TO DO CREDIBLE  WORK.

AND THEN I WOULD LIKE IT TO  HAPPEN RIGHT AFTER THE PRIMARY.

SO MY DECISION ABOUT CALLING THAT REALLY DOES NEED TO  HAPPEN IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS AND BY THEN I WILL HAVE SEEN  THE LATEST DRAFTS OF THE MEASURES THAT YOU AND I ARE  TALKING ABOUT, SO THAT I CAN BEGIN TO DO EXACTLY THAT, A  VOTE COUNT, ABOUT WHERE WE ARE AND HOW PEOPLE ARE FEELING,  THAT THESE ARE MEASURES THAT CAN ACTUALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE  IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

>> Grammer: THE LOBO FAN BASE  IS VERY NEW MEXICO.

I MEAN, THERE IS A PRIDE THAT  THEY WILL FIGHT WITH EACH OTHER, THEY WILL FIGHT WITH  THE PLAYERS SOMETIMES, THEY WILL SAY SOME THINGS ABOUT THE  COACHES.

THEY WILL DO ALL THE THINGS A  FAMILY DOES.

THEY WILL FIGHT WITH SIBLINGS  LIKE NONE OTHER.

BUT IF ANYBODY ELSE, I'LL TELL  YOU WHAT, IF A NEVADA FAN OR BOISE STATE FAN OR SAN DIEGO  STATE FAN SAYS THE EXACT SAME THING ABOUT A LOBO OR ABOUT A  LOBO FAN, THEN IT IS ON, RIGHT?

THAT IS THE PRIDE.

THAT IS THE FIGHT OR STATE  MENTALITY OF NEW MEXICO.

>> Lou: I ALSO ASKED THE  GOVERNOR ABOUT OTHER ITEMS SHE MIGHT INCLUDE ON THE CALL.

LAST WEEK, YOU'LL REMEMBER THE STATE LAND COMMISSIONER TOLD  ME THAT SHE PUSHED TO HAVE THE STATE'S OIL AND GAS LEASE RATE  HIKED TO 25% DURING A SPECIAL BUT THE GOVERNOR TOLD ME THAT  SHE IS NOT CONSIDERING ADDING THAT MEASURE OR ANY OTHERS  THAT AREN'T RELATED TO PUBLIC SAFETY.

YOU CAN WATCH MY ENTIRE INTERVIEW WITH THE GOVERNOR ON  THE NEW MEXICO INFOCUS YOUTUBE PAGE AND ON THE PBS APP.

WE AREN'T TURNING AWAY FROM THE POSSIBILITY OF A SPECIAL  SESSION JUST YET.

CORRESPONDENT GWYNETH DOLAND  HOSTS A ROUNDTABLE DISCUSSION THIS WEEK WITH U.S.

POLITICAL  SCIENCE PROFESSOR TIMOTHY KREBS AND DANIEL WILLIAMS,  POLICE AND POLICY ADVOCATE WITH THE ACLU OF NEW MEXICO.

THEY'LL DIVE INTO THE REAL AND PERCEIVED PROBLEMS THE  GOVERNOR SAYS SHE WANTS TO ADDRESS IN A SPECIAL SESSION,  THE POTENTIAL PITFALLS OF THESE PROPOSALS AND THE  POLITICS OF PUBLIC SAFETY IN OUR STATE.

HERE IS GWYNETH.

>> Gwyneth: THANKS, LOU.

LET'S FIRST SET THE STAGE HERE.

NATIONAL POLL NUMBERS SHOW PEOPLE ACROSS THE COUNTRY  THINK CRIME IS WORSE THAN IT IS.

BUT THERE IS NO QUESTION CRIME IN NEW MEXICO IS HIGHER THAN  IT IS IN OTHER PLACES.

THE GOVERNOR JUST SAID, RETAIL  THEFT IS OUT OF CONTROL.

IT IS COMPLICATED, THOUGH.

THE LATEST ALBUQUERQUE STATISTICS SHOW THAT PROPERTY  CRIMES ARE ACTUALLY DOWN A LITTLE BIT OVER THE PAST SIX  YEARS.

BUT, THE NUMBER OF ASSAULTS  AND MURDERS IS ABOUT THE SAME.

HERE IS THE ONE BIG THING THAT  HAS CHANGED.

DRUG OFFENSES HAVE DOUBLED,  RIGHT.

APD CALLS THESE CRIMES AGAINST  SOCIETY AND I THINK THAT IS A USEFUL WAY OF THINKING ABOUT  IT RIGHT NOW.

AT THE SAME TIME, THE NUMBER  OF HOMELESS PEOPLE HAS RISEN IN ALMOST EVERY STATE ACROSS  THE COUNTRY, BUT NEW MEXICO HAD THE BIGGEST INCREASE AND  THAT IS A 50% INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF HOMELESS PEOPLE ON  THE STREET OVER THE PAST DECADE.

SO, THE FIRST QUESTION IS WHAT ARE THE ACTUAL PROBLEMS WE  NEED TO SOLVE HERE?

TIM, TO YOU FIRST.

>> Krebs: WELL, THESE ISSUES ARE REALLY COMPLEX AND YOU CAN  SAY, WELL, WE'LL TAKE A STAB AT THE CRIME PROBLEM OR  HOUSING PROBLEM, HOMELESSNESS PROBLEM, DRUG ADDICTION  PROBLEM, MENTAL HEALTH, ETC, BUT REALLY THESE THINGS ARE  TOGETHER.

THEY ARE CORRELATED WITH EACH  OTHER AND SO, YOU KNOW, IT IS A BIG COMPLEX PROBLEM.

CRIME IS ASSOCIATED WITH POVERTY.

POVERTY IS A PREDICTOR OF HOMELESSNESS AND OTHER KINDS  OF SOCIETAL ILLS SO THESE PROBLEMS ARE REALLY SORT OF  INTERCONNECTED.

>> Gwyneth: WE CAN'T REALLY  PULL ONE OUT WITHOUT -- >> Krebs: THAT IS EXACTLY  RIGHT.

I MEAN, CERTAINLY WHEN YOU  TALK ABOUT CRIME, FOR EXAMPLE, THE PERCEPTION OF CRIME IS  ALWAYS HIGHER THAN THE ACTUAL CRIME NUMBERS.

IT JUST ALWAYS IS.

AND WHILE IT IS CLEAR THAT NEW  MEXICO -- THAT THE CRIME PROBLEM, THE CRIME RATES  NATIONALLY AND ALSO IN NEW MEXICO HAVE COME DOWN,  CERTAINLY NATIONALLY, SUBSTANTIALLY, IN THE LAST  COUPLE OF YEARS, PEOPLES' PERCEPTION OF IT IS THAT IT IS  REALLY, REALLY OUT OF CONTROL AND NEW MEXICO IS ABOVE THE  NATIONAL AVERAGE ON ALL THESE DIFFERENT CRIME INDICATORS BUT  IT HAS COME DOWN A BIT.

>> Gwyneth: DANIEL, DO YOU  AGREE?

>> Williams: I DO.

I THINK WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS AS A HOLISTIC ISSUE THAT  WE CAN'T JUST TALK ABOUT ONE THING AT A TIME AND EXPECT  THINGS TO GET BETTER.

I THINK IT IS ALSO IMPORTANT  FOR US TO RECOGNIZE THAT WE CAN'T TAKE THE SAME APPROACH  THAT HAS FAILED US OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

FUELING MASS INCARCERATIONS ARE HARMING OR COMMUNITIES.

WE CAN'T ARREST OUR WAY OUT OF ANY OF THE PROBLEMS THAT YOU  JUST SAID.

WE HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT ARE THE ROOT CAUSES, WHAT ARE  DRIVING THESE ISSUES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

AND IT IS NOT GOING TO WORK TO JUST ARREST EVERYONE AND THROW  THEM IN JAIL.

THAT IS JUST GOING TO MAKE THE  PROBLEM WORSE AS WE HAVE SEEN FROM MY WHOLE LIFE AND REALLY  LONGER.

>> Gwyneth: AND I THINK THE  GOVERNOR IN THE INTERVIEW WE JUST SAW ECHOED SOME OF THAT  AND SHE SAID ROOT CAUSES.

SHE SAID THAT IS WHAT SHE  WANTED TO DO.

SHE WANTS TO DO.

SHE WANTS TO CALL LAWMAKERS BACK TO SANTA FE THIS SUMMER  AFTER THE PRIMARY, NOTABLY, TO PASS MORE LAWS RELATED TO  CRIME AND PUBLIC SAFETY.

SHE SAYS WE NEED TO -- SHE  DIDN'T SAY WE CAN'T ARREST OUR WAY OUT, BUT SHE DID SAY SHE  WANTED TO LOOK AT ROOT CAUSES OF CRIME AND INVEST IN  COMMUNITIES.

SHE DID SAY TOUGH ON CRIME  STRATEGIES HAVEN'T WORKED SO THAT IS PRETTY COMMON  DEMOCRATIC PERSPECTIVE, BUT, TIM, YOU KNOW, LET'S TALK  ABOUT WHAT IS ON THE STREET HERE.

YOU WORK AT UNM.

YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS LIKE ON  CENTRAL RIGHT NOW.

RIGHT?

I WAS STOPPED AT A LIGHT THE OTHER DAY AND I SAW A GUY  LEANING AGAINST THE LIGHT POLE TO STEADY HIMSELF WHILE HE  SHOT UP.

YOU KNOW.

WHAT KIND OF PRESSURE DOES THIS -- DO THESE VISUALS,  THESE SITUATIONS, WHAT KIND OF PRESSURE DOES THIS PUT ON  POLITICIANS?

>> Krebs: POLITICIANS ARE  REACTING TO WHAT THEY ARE HEARING FROM CONSTITUENTS AND  IT IS THESE KIND OF EXPERIENCES THAT CONSTITUENTS  ARE RELAYING TO THEM.

IT IS NOT EXACTLY, YOU KNOW,  THERE IS RESEARCH THAT SHOWS THAT, YOU KNOW, IT IS NOT  NECESSARILY THE SORT OF THE RHETORIC THAT POLITICIANS USE  IN ELECTIONS THAT IS CAUSING PEOPLE TO THINK THAT CRIME IS  WORSE THAN IT IS.

IT IS ACTUALLY THE PUBLIC  ITSELF HAS BEEN LEADING -- THE PUBLIC OPINION ON CRIME HAS  BEEN LEADING POLITICIANS TO TAKE HARDER AND HARDER STANCES  WITH RESPECT TO CRIMINAL JUSTICE AND CRIME FIGHTING  ISSUES.

>> Gwyneth: I MIGHT HAVE  SUSPECTED THE OPPOSITE BUT IT IS THE PUBLIC PUSHING  POLITICIANS.

>> Krebs: EXACTLY.

THAT SHOWS THAT AS OPPOSED TO THE OTHER WAY AROUND SINCE THE  1950'S.

AND, SO, THESE KINDS OF VISUALS ARE THE THINGS THAT  THE PUBLIC IS REACTING TO.

THEY SEE THIS AND THEY ARE  RIGHTFULLY SORT OF OUTRAGED.

I THINK, IT IS AN EMOTIONAL  KIND OF EXPERIENCE THAT YOU HAVE WHEN YOU SEE THAT.

AND THEN WILL CONTACT THEIR LEGISLATORS OR WRITE LETTERS  TO THE EDITORS OR WHATEVER OR RESPOND TO POLLSTERS THAT  CRIME IS OUT OF CONTROL.

>> Gwyneth: I WAS HAVING SOME  OF THESE SAME THOUGHTS WHEN I WAS WATCHING HER DO HER STATE  OF THE STATE ADDRESS IN JANUARY, THE OPENING OF THE  SESSION, I THOUGHT, OH, THERE IS SO MUCH ABOUT CRIME IN THIS  SPEECH.

LIKE I KNOW SHE FEELS LIKE SHE  HAS TO TALK ABOUT THIS.

BUT WHAT IS SHE GOING TO SAY,  RIGHT?

LET'S DO A LITTLE FLASHBACK.

DURING THAT STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS, SHE LAID OUT HER  PUBLIC SAFETY AGENDA.

IT WAS A SIZEABLE PART OF THE  SPEECH.

SHE WANTED LIKE 10 THINGS,  ASSAULT WEAPON BAN, RAISING THE GUN BUYING AGE TO 21, A  14-DAY WAITING PERIOD BEFORE BUYING A GUN, INCREASED  PENALTIES FOR FELONS IN POSSESSION OF A FIREARM, A BAN  ON GUNS IN PARKS AND PLAYGROUNDS, ALLOWING COPS TO  FILE RED FLAG ORDERS, ENHANCED PENALTIES FOR COMMERCIAL  BURGLARY, PRETRIAL DETENTION FOR VIOLENT AND REPEAT  OFFENDERS, MANDATORY TREATMENT, WE ARE GOING TO  COME BACK TO THIS, FOR PEOPLE REPEATEDLY ENTERING THE  JUDICIAL SYSTEM AND RESTRICTIONS ON PANHANDLING.

AS WE ALL SAW SHE DID NOT GET THAT LIST ACCOMPLISHED BUT SHE  GOT THE BAN ON FIREARMS AT POLLING PLACES, WASN'T  ACTUALLY ON HER LIST.

A SEVEN-DAY WAITING PERIOD,  NOT 14.

KEEPING SUSPECTS LOCKED UP IF  THEY REOFFEND WHILE THEY ARE OUT AWAITING TRIAL ON A FIRST  CHARGE AND INCREASED PENALTIES FOR SECOND DEGREE MURDER AND  ATTEMPTED SECOND DEGREE MURDER.

NOW SHE WANTS MORE.

SHE SAYS, THIS IS AN  EMERGENCY.

THE PUBLIC WANTS SOMETHING  DONE.

WORTH NOTING ALSO AN ELECTION  YEAR FOR STATE LAWMAKERS.

JUST PUTTING THAT OUT THERE.

IS THIS A REAL EMERGENCY OR IS THIS A POLITICAL EMERGENCY OR  BOTH?

>> Williams: I ALSO LIVE IN  ALBUQUERQUE.

I AM SEEING THE SAME THINGS  THAT WE TALKED ABOUT EVERYONE IS SEEING.

SO I THINK THERE ARE REAL ISSUES AND WE ALL WANT TO LIVE  IN A SAFE COMMUNITY.

I DON'T THINK THAT THE  EMERGENCY RHETORIC THAT THE GOVERNOR IS USING IS  ESPECIALLY HELPFUL FOR THINKING ABOUT THESE ISSUES.

THEY ARE LONG-TERM SYSTEMIC ISSUES.

WE DIDN'T GET HERE OVERNIGHT.

IT WASN'T SOMETHING WE STARTED  HAVING SUBSTANCE ABUSE IN THIS COUNTRY LAST YEAR.

WE STARTED HAVING HOMELESSNESS IN THE STATE TWO YEARS AGO.

>> Gwyneth: ALTHOUGH TO BE FAIR, THOSE NUMBERS ARE BOTH  UP RECENTLY.

>> Williams: THEY ARE UP.

THERE IS A LONG STORY OF HOW WE GOT TO THAT PLACE WHERE  THOSE NUMBERS ARE INCREASING TO THE EXTENT THEY ARE.

AND SO THIS IDEA THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN WE JUST NEED TO COME TO  SANTA FE FOR THREE DAYS OR MAYBE A WEEK AND WE CAN PASS A  BUNCH OF LEGISLATION AND WE ARE JUST GOING TO FIX IT ALL,  IT IS REALLY NOT THE WAY THESE ISSUES WORK.

AND SOME OF THE THINGS SHE IS TALKING ABOUT ARE REALLY  COMPLEX, THORNY LEGAL ISSUES THAT TAKE A LOT OF CARE AND  ATTENTION TO SOLVE.

>> Gwyneth: AGAIN, SHE SAID  SHE WANTS TO CALL THIS, IF SHE DOES, AFTER THE PRIMARY.

AND EVERYONE IS KIND OF TOO BUSY TO COME TO SANTA FE RIGHT  WHILE THEY ARE OUT CAMPAIGNING AND DOING THEIR REAL JOBS,  BUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE THE DYNAMICS FOR STATE LAWMAKERS  WHO ARE PROBABLY THINKING AHEAD TO THE MAILERS THEY WANT  TO PUT OUT, THE MAILERS OTHER PEOPLE ARE GOING TO PUT OUT  AGAINST THEM, THE TV ADS, THAT KIND OF STUFF, WHAT IS AT  STAKE FOR THEM.

>> Krebs: CERTAINLY FOR  INCUMBENTS WHO ARE IN DISTRICTS THAT ARE  COMPETITIVE, YOU KNOW, THE CRIME ISSUE IS ONE THAT THEY  COULD BE POTENTIALLY VULNERABLE ON IF THEY HAVEN'T  DONE THE THINGS THAT PEOPLE THINK THEY SHOULD DO WITH  RESPECT TO BEING TOUGH ON CRIME, ADDRESSING THE ISSUE.

BECAUSE, I MEAN, IT IS A VERY SERIOUS CONCERN IN THE STATE.

NEW MEXICO HAS ALWAYS BEEN LIKE NO.

1 OR NO.

2 IN TERMS  OF BEING A VERY VIOLENT PLACE.

SO THERE IS NO IGNORING THAT.

AND I THINK PEOPLE ARE AGAIN RIGHTFULLY SORT OF FRUSTRATED  WITH SORT OF HOW THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM WORKS AND HOW  POLICING AND CRIME FIGHTING WORKS AND SORT OF THE LACK OF  RESPONSE IN SOME WAYS FROM ELECTED OFFICIALS.

THERE IS ALWAYS A FINE LINE, OF COURSE BETWEEN, YOU KNOW,  SORT OF BEING TOUGH ON CRIME AND SORT OF THE LOCK EVERYONE  UP APPROACH CERTAINLY HAS NOT WORKED.

THAT IS ABSOLUTELY CLEAR.

>> Gwyneth: I WANT TO SEGUE  HERE TO PANHANDLING.

BECAUSE IN TERMS OF SOMETHING  THAT COULD CHANGE THE OPTICS OF CRIME QUICKLY IT COULD BE  RESTRICTING PANHANDLING.

YOU KNOW, SHE PAINTS, IN THAT  INTERVIEW, A PRETTY SCARY PICTURE, PEOPLE WITH MACHETES  AND TWO BY FOURS.

OKAY, I HAVEN'T SEEN   THAT BUT I GET IT.

AS A LADY IN MY CAR ALONE A LOT, THERE IS SOME TIMES WHEN  I HAVE BEEN A LITTLE BIT FREAKED OUT.

BUT DANIEL I KNOW YOU'RE GOING TO TELL ME THAT CIVIL  LIBERTARIANS DON'T LIKE THIS.

>> Williams: WELL, CIVIL  LIBERTARIANS DON'T LIKE THIS AND I THINK ALSO, AS A PERSON  OF CONSCIENCE, I DON'T LIKE THIS.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE SHE DID TALK ABOUT -- THE  GOVERNOR DID TALK ABOUT PEOPLE CHASING PEOPLE WITH MACHETES.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO KNOW THAT THAT IS ALREADY ILLEGAL.

>> Gwyneth: FAIR ENOUGH.

>> Williams: AND PANHANDLING  IS NOT NEARLY TAILORED TO ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES.

SO, THE GOVERNOR MENTIONED THERE HAVE BEEN FIRST  AMENDMENT CHALLENGES TO PANHANDLING ORDINANCES IN  PAST.

SHE BELIEVES THAT THE PROPOSAL  SHE IS PUTTING FORWARD MIGHT PASS CONSTITUTIONAL MUSTER.

IT IS PROBABLY NOT GOING TO SURPRISE YOU THAT THE PEOPLE I  AM TALKING TO DON'T SHARE THAT ASSESSMENT.

BUT, REGARDLESS OF THE SORT OF LEGAL FIRST AMENDMENT  CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUES, THERE IS ALSO A SORT OF A  FUNDAMENTAL VALUES QUESTION HERE FOR ME AND FOR US AT  ACLU.

WHICH IS THAT I THINK WE CAN  ALL AGREE THAT HOMELESSNESS IS ONE OF THE MORAL CRISES OF OUR  TIMES AND IT IS UNACCEPTABLE THAT WE LIVE IN A COUNTRY  WHERE SO MANY PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THE RESOURCES THEY NEED  TO SHELTER THEMSELVES.

SO THE IDEA THAT CRIMINALIZING  PEOPLE FOR ACTIVITIES THAT THEY ARE UNDERTAKING TO JUST  GIVE THEMSELVES THE RESOURCES THEY NEED TO SURVIVE, THAT  THAT IS GOING TO SOLVE THAT PROBLEM, IT IS JUST WRONG  HEADED.

WE KNOW THAT INCARCERATION,  ONE PERIOD OF INCARCERATION MAKES SOMEONE SEVEN TIMES MORE  LIKELY TO EXPERIENCE HOMELESSNESS.

MULTIPLE INCARCERATIONS MAKES SOMEONE MORE THAN 13 TIMES  MORE LIKELY TO EXPERIENCE HOMELESSNESS.

SO, THE IDEA OF CRIMINALIZING THIS BEHAVIOR, CRIMINALIZING  PEOPLE FOR ASKING FOR MONEY ON THE STREETS, THAT IS JUST  GOING TO MAKE THE PROBLEM WORSE.

IT IS NOT GOING TO REALLY HELP US ADDRESS THIS PROBLEM THAT  IS SOMETHING THAT WEIGHS ON, I THINK, ALL OF OUR CONSCIENCES.

>> Gwyneth: YOU MAKE AN ELOQUENT CASE, DANIEL.

I WANT TO MOVE ON TO CRIMINAL COMPETENCY AND CIVIL  COMMITMENT.

THE GOVERNOR GAVE AN EXAMPLE  OF SOMEONE WHO IS HOMELESS, HAS MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES,  VIOLENT TENDENCIES, THEY ARE MAKING THE PAIN GO AWAY WITH  FENTANYL.

NOW THEY ARE STEALING STUFF TO  GET BY AND GET FOOD AND BUY DRUGS AND NOW THEY ARE CHARGED  WITH, SAY, AGGRAVATED ASSAULT OR SHOPLIFTING, BUT THEY ARE  TOO MESSED UP TO STAND TRIAL.

SO, WHAT SHE WANTS IS IF A  JUDGE FINDS THEY ARE INCOMPETENT TO STAND TRIAL,  BECAUSE THEY HAVE MENTAL HEALTH OR BEHAVIORAL HEALTH  ISSUES THAT ARE PREVENTING THAT, THEN A JUDGE CAN SEND  THEM TO TREATMENT.

SHE SAYS FORCING THEM TO GO TO  TREATMENT WOULD ALLOW THEM TO GET THAT ADDICTION DEALT WITH,  ADDRESS THE UNDERLYING MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES IN ORDER TO  STAND TRIAL.

THAT IS ONE THING.

ANOTHER BILL WOULD ALLOW, SAY, A FAMILY WITH AN ADULT CHILD  WHO HAS GOT A DRUG PROBLEM AND IS TOTALLY OUT OF CONTROL, TO  PETITION THE COURT TO SEND THEM TO TREATMENT, EVEN IF  THEY DON'T REALLY WANT TO GO.

THEY WOULD HAVE TO, YOU KNOW,  THERE IS SOME DUE PROCESS AND WE'LL GET BACK TO THAT, BUT,  TIM, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS IDEA?

IT IS PRETTY IN THE WEEDS, THIS ISN'T SOMETHING I THINK A  LOT OF PEOPLE THINK ABOUT, BUT WOULD THIS WORK?

IS THIS A GOOD IDEA TO USE THESE TWO METHODS TO GET MORE  PEOPLE INTO TREATMENT?

>> Krebs: YEAH, I THINK IT  STRIKES ME AS A KIND OF MIDDLE GROUND BETWEEN DOING NOTHING  AT ALL AND THROWING EVERYBODY IN JAIL, RIGHT?

SO, YOU TAKE PEOPLE AND YOU -- THIS IS PART OF THE  FRUSTRATION THAT PEOPLE HAVE WITH RESPECT TO THE CRIMINAL  JUSTICE SYSTEM IS BEING ABLE TO HOLD PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN  ACCUSED OF COMMITTING CRIMINAL ACTS AND SO FORTH, YOU KNOW,  HAVING THEM BACK OUT ON THE STREETS AND BEING ENGAGED IN  MORE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY.

THAT IS A BIG PART OF PEOPLES'  FRUSTRATION, I THINK, WITH RESPECT TO THE STATUS QUO ON  CRIMINAL JUSTICE.

SO IT STRIKES ME AS A BIT MORE  OF A MIDDLE GROUND BUT THERE ARE CLEAR CONSTITUTIONAL  ISSUES THERE JUST AS THERE ARE IN PANHANDLING REGULATIONS.

>> Gwyneth: GIVE ME A 30-SECOND ANSWER TO THIS IDEA.

DISTILL IT.

>> Williams: THIS IS SO  COMPLICATED.

AND BIG.

AND SO IT REALLY NEEDS MORE THAN 30 SECONDS NOW AND MORE  THAN THREE DAYS THIS SUMMER.

WE NEED --  >> Gwyneth: SHE SAYS SHE IS WORKING WITH LAWMAKERS IN  THESE WORKING GROUPS AND THIS DID COME A LITTLE BIT THROUGH  LAST SESSION.

>> Williams: IT DID.

I WAS IN EVERY SINGLE COMMITTEE WHERE THESE BILLS  WERE HEARD.

I WOULD NOT CHARACTERIZE THESE  BILLS AS HAVING MOMENTUM THIS LAST SESSION.

SO, I WOULD NOT SHARE THE GOVERNOR ASSESSMENT THERE.

WE NEED TO HAVE PUBLIC DEFENDERS, PEOPLE WHO, LIKE  US, WHO CARE ABOUT THE CONSTITUTION AND CIVIL  LIBERTIES, PEOPLE WHO REPRESENT MARGINALIZED  COMMUNITIES, THEY ALL NEED TO BE AT THE TABLE.

AND THEY ALL ARE AT THE TABLE WORKING TO DO SOMETHING THAT  COULD BE TRANSFORMATIVE.

>> Gwyneth: BUT MAYBE TOO FAST  FOR YOUR -- >> Williams: MAYBE TOO FAST.

WE NEED TO REALLY GET THIS  RIGHT.

>> Gwyneth: NOW THE  GOVERNOR -- LAST THING I WANT TO TALK ABOUT IS THE GOVERNOR  SAYS THERE AREN'T ENOUGH COPS ON THE STREET.

PROBABLY A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD AGREE.

MAYBE IT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE THERE IS ENOUGH COPS ON THE  STREET WITH THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WE SEE, YOU KNOW, OUT  THERE.

BUT, TO BE CLEAR, THERE IS NO  EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE THAT MORE COPS EQUALS LESS CRIME.

DO WE NEED MORE COPS?

I KNOW YOU'RE GOING TO SAY NO,  BUT TELL ME WHY.

>> Williams: WE DON'T NEED  MORE COPS AND WE DON'T NEED MORE CRIMINALIZATION.

WHAT WE NEED TO BE REALLY LOOKING AT IS DIRECTING OUR  RESOURCES TO SOLVING THE PROBLEMS.

AND WHEN THERE ARE CASES THAT DON'T NEED A POLICE RESPONSE  WE NEED TO BEING DOING THINGS LIKE WHAT ALBUQUERQUE IS DOING  AND LAS CRUCES IS DOING WITH NONPOLICE RESPONSES.

>> Gwyneth: YEAH, NONPOLICE RESPONSE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> Krebs: I THINK WE NEED TO  DO MORE WITH RESPECT TO NONPOLICE RESPONSE AND I THINK  WHAT ALBUQUERQUE HAS DONE AND OTHER COMMUNITIES HAVE DONE IS  A POSITIVE STEP, BUT I WOULD DISAGREE, I THINK MORE COPS IS  A GOOD THING IN TERMS OF CRIME FIGHTING.

I THINK THERE IS CLEAR EVIDENCE THAT SHOWS THAT, YOU  KNOW, WHERE YOU HAVE ADDITIONAL POLICE, YOU'RE  GOING TO HAVE LOWER CRIME RATES AND PROPERTY CRIME  RATES, ESPECIALLY, AND VIOLENT CRIME RATES BUT THERE IS A  BALANCE.

HOW DO YOU DIRECT THOSE  RESOURCES AND TARGETING THOSE RESOURCES TO SORT OF THE  HABITUAL OFFENDERS AND THE SMALL GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT ARE  ACTUALLY ENGAGED IN CRIME AS OPPOSED TO TARGETING THOSE  RESOURCES TO PANHANDLERS, PER SE.

THEY ARE NOT THE ONES REALLY COMMITTING CRIME.

WHAT THEY CREATE IS A KIND OF PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUE THAT I  THINK IS REALLY IMPORTANT AND NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED, NOT  ONLY FOR MOTORISTS AND CYCLISTS AND WHAT HAVE YOU BUT  ALSO FOR THEM, FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING THE PANHANDLING.

BUT, IN ANY CASE, THE BIGGER ISSUES ARE SORT OF HABITUAL  CRIMINALS, THE SMALL NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT ARE ENGAGED IN A  DISPROPORTIONATE NUMBER OF CRIMES AND ADDITIONAL POLICE  RESOURCES CAN HELP WITH THAT.

>> Gwyneth: WHAT WE SAW HER  SAYING WAS KIND OF WHAT YOU JUST SAID, BUT ALSO  PANHANDLING, SHE WAS LIKE, WE NEED TO GET RID OF THESE  THINGS THAT ARE CAUSED BY DRUGS AND MENTAL HEALTH SO  THAT WE CAN DEAL WITH THE BIGGER ISSUE, BUT THEN SHE  ALSO WANTS TO GET RID OF THIS OPTICS PROBLEM, A LITTLE BIT.

>> Krebs: BECAUSE IT IS A SYMBOL.

IT'S AN OPTICS ISSUE, SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE AND  ELECTED OFFICIALS CAN POINT TO AS, YOU KNOW, THE PUBLIC AND  ELECTED OFFICIALS CAN POINT TO THAT AND SAY, THIS IS PART AND  PARCEL OF THE BROADER CRIME AND DISORDER SORT OF ISSUE IN  COMMUNITIES.

>> Gwyneth: THAT IS ALL WE  HAVE TIME FOR FOR THIS CONVERSATION, BUT THANK YOU SO  MUCH.

YOU BOTH GAVE ME A LOT TO  THINK ABOUT.

TIM, DANIEL, WE REALLY  APPRECIATE HAVING YOU WITH US AND WE WILL BE WATCHING AS THE  SPECIAL SESSION GETS FIRED UP, MAYBE, MAYBE NOT.

THANK YOU.

>> Lou: THANKS TO GWYNETH  DOLAND AND FOR THAT PROSPECTIVE ON A POSSIBLE  SPECIAL SESSION.

NOW WE TURN TO A TOPIC THAT IS  A BIT UNUSUAL FOR OUR SHOW, SPORTS.

BUT THIS YEAR'S LOBO BASKETBALL SEASON ISN'T JUST  ANY SPORTS STORY.

THE TEAM STARTED THE SEASON  HOT, CLIMBING INTO THE TOP 25 NATIONALLY SEVERAL TIMES.

DESPITE THAT SUCCESS, THE LOBOS LOOKED LIKE THEY WERE  COOKED AFTER A LATE SEASON LOSS TO AIR FORCE.

NOT SO FAST.

TWO WEEKS LATER THE GUYS IN  CHERRY AND SILVER CLAIMED THEIR FIRST MOUNTAIN WEST  CHAMPIONSHIP AND NCAA TOURNAMENT BERTH IN A DECADE.

ONLY TO BE BOUNCED IN A FIRST ROUND BLOW OUT LOSS TO  CLEMSON.

AS ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL SPORTS  WRITER JEFF GRAMMER TELLS ME, IT WAS A QUINTESSENTIAL  EXPERIENCE FOR A UNIQUELY NEW MEXICAN FAN BASE.

>> Lou: JEFF GRAMMER, THANKS FOR BEING HERE ON NEW MEXICO  INFOCUS.

>> Grammer: ABSOLUTELY.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> Lou: IT IS ISOTOPES SEASON  NOW.

WE KNOW THAT.

THAT MEANS YOU ARE GOING TO BE PULLING FOR TACO IN BETWEEN  INNING RACES.

I KNOW THAT.

>> Grammer: ABSOLUTELY.

THERE IS ALSO A BASEBALL GAME  GOING ON.

IT IS NOT JUST THE CHILE RACES  BUT ABSOLUTELY BIG TACO FAN.

>> Lou: WHAT IS NOT TO LOVE.

BUT I WANT TO LOOK BACK AT LOBO BASKETBALL.

SO, FIRST TOURNAMENT APPEARANCE IN ABOUT A DECADE.

MOUNTAIN WEST CHAMPIONSHIP, HOW MUCH FUN WAS THE SEASON  FOR FANS?

>> Grammer: I TELL YOU WHAT, I  AM A WHOLE LOT BETTER REPORTER WHEN THEY ARE WINNING THAN  WHEN THEY ARE LOSING.

SO I THINK FANS HAD A MUCH  BETTER TIME BECAUSE THEY WERE A LOT NICER TO ME THIS YEAR IN  FOLLOWING MY STORIES.

I DO THINK THAT THE FANS SORT  OF SAW THIS BUILDING FOR A THREE-YEAR PERIOD, RIGHT.

I THINK RICHARD PITINO HIRED THREE YEARS AGO THIS MONTH, IN  FACT, I THINK IN MARCH, THREE YEARS AGO, I THINK PEOPLE KIND  OF YOU GET SOLD A BILL OF GOOD SOMETIMES.

LIKE, OKAY, THE COACH IS GOING TO REBUILD THIS THING AND IT  IS GOING TO TAKE A LITTLE WHILE BUT BE PATIENT.

WHEN IT ACTUALLY WORKS OUT THAT WAY AND GOES FROM 13 WINS  TO 22, TO 26 WINS LIKE THEY DID AND MAKE THE TOURNAMENT  AND IT IS BUILDING THE WHOLE TIME, I THINK THE BUILDUP FOR  THE ENJOYMENT HAS KIND OF BEEN A THREE-YEAR PROCESS, REALLY A  DECADE-LONG PROCESS, BECAUSE LOBO FANS, I THINK, EXPECTED  NCAA TOURNAMENTS, IF NOT EVERY YEAR, PROBABLY THREE OUT OF  EVERY FOUR YEARS, CERTAINLY NOT ONE IN A DECADE.

SO, I THINK LOBO FANS REALLY ENJOYED THIS, BUT I ALSO THINK  IT GOES BACK TO EVEN BEYOND BEFORE JUST THIS SEASON.

I THINK THE BUILDUP IS SORT OF THE ONES WHO ARE ON BOARD FOR  THREE YEARS IN THIS REBUILD, I THINK, REALLY ENJOYED THIS  YEAR.

>> Lou: HOW MUCH FUN WAS IT  FOR YOU?

I MEAN, AFTER SO MANY DOWN  YEARS, THE SUCCESS THIS YEAR.

>> Grammer: THE VIBE IS  CERTAINLY BETTER, RIGHT?

I AM GETTING PAID TO COVER A  BASKETBALL GAME WHETHER THEY WIN OR LOSE AND SO THERE IS  NOT A WHOLE LOT OF COMPLAINING I CAN DO OR SHOULD DO.

IF I DO, I CERTAINLY GET REMINDED, OH, YEAH, YOU JUST  GOT PAID TO WATCH BASKETBALL.

ALL RIGHT.

SO, I LOVE MY JOB, WHETHER THEY WIN OR LOSE, BUT THE VIBE  AROUND IT, PEOPLE ARE JUST HAPPIER AND WHEN PEOPLE ARE  HAPPIER AROUND THE PROGRAM YOU'RE COVERING, IT IS  PROBABLY JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE FUN.

WHAT I LIKE ABOUT IT IS IT HAD BEEN 10 YEARS AND PROBABLY  SEVEN OR EIGHT OF THEM WERE OF THE SAME KIND OF THEME.

IT WAS, YOU KNOW, PLAYERS THAT WEREN'T ACHIEVING WHAT MAYBE  FANS THOUGHT THEY WERE GOING TO AND THERE WAS A LOT OF  UNDERACHIEVING.

THERE WAS OFF-THE-COURT  DISTRACTIONS.

THERE WAS OFF-THE-COURT DRAMA.

IT WAS JUST NICE FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS TO COVER A GROUP OF  PLAYERS WEREN'T GETTING IN TROUBLE OFF THE COURT AND WERE  WINNING AND BUILDING TOWARDS SOMETHING.

IT WAS A NICE CHANGE OF PACE.

>> Lou: NICE TO SEE YOU GET  SOME LOVE IN THE NATIONAL PRESS TOO ON THIS RUN.

SPEAKING OF YOUR COVERAGE, THOUGH, YOUR STORY ON NELLY  JUNIOR FAIRLY BLEW UP.

WHAT WAS IT LIKE REPORTING  THAT?

>> Grammer: FUN.

IT ACTUALLY STARTED TO BE AN NCAA TOURNAMENT MARCH MADNESS  KIND OF STORY.

I STARTED IT IN EARLY JANUARY  AND I REACHED OUT TO THE -- THERE WAS A PLAYER HERE THREE  YEARS AGO UNDER PAUL WEIR, KURT WEGSCHEIDER WAS HIS NAME,  PLAYED IN THE NBA AFRICA.

I HAD A CONTACT IN NBA AFRICA,  AN ACADEMY THAT BASICALLY FINDS PROSPECTS AROUND THE  CONTINENT AND THEY BRING THEM TO THIS ACADEMY.

IT IS NOW IN SENEGAL.

I FORGET WHERE IT WAS PRIOR  BUT THEY BRING THESE PROSPECTS AND THE GOAL IS TWO-FOLD.

ONE IS TO GROW THE SPORT OUTSIDE OF THE UNITED STATES  WHICH LEADS TO MARKETABILITY AND MONEY, BUT IT IS ALSO TO  FIND PROSPECTS AND BRING THEM INTO THE NBA AND MAYBE GROW  THE SPORT WITH THE BEST TALENTED IN THE WORLD.

THAT IS THE GOAL OF A MAJOR SPORT.

THIS NBA AFRICA ACADEMY THAT I HAD A CONTACT WITH HAD  IDENTIFIED NELLY JUNIOR JOSEPH IN NIGERIA WHEN HE WAS --  REALLY HIS JOURNEY STARTED WHEN HE WAS ABOUT 13.

HE WAS LIVING -- AT THE TIME HIS FATHER HAD DIED WHEN HE  WAS REAL YOUNG, BEFORE HE WAS TOO OLD TO REMEMBER.

HIS MOTHER IS ALIVE BUT WASN'T REALLY PART OF THE FAMILY.

HE LIVED WITH A GRANDMOTHER WHO DIED WHEN HE WAS 10 OR 11.

HE HAD BEEN LIVING IN HER HOME FOR A FEW YEARS BY HIMSELF.

SO YOU CAN'T SAY HE WAS HOMELESS, PER SE, BUT HE WOULD  WAKE UP IN THE MORNING AND WALK THE STREETS LOOKING FOR  FOOD AND PLAYING SOCCER WITH HIS FRIENDS, FINDING ODD JOBS  TO PAY FOR THE FOOD.

AND PEOPLE ALWAYS SAW HIM  REALLY TALL KID PLAYING SOCCER AND SAID WHY DON'T YOU PLAY  BASKETBALL.

AND HE SAID I HAVE NO  INTEREST.

FINALLY HE WAS CONVINCED TO GO  TRY THIS BASKETBALL THING.

ONE THING, KIND OF ONE UNIQUE  STEP LEADS TO THE NEXT AND THEN HE ENDS UP IN THE NBA  AFRICA ACADEMY AND PLAYS FOR RICK PITINO IN IONA AND RICK  PITINO TAKES THE ST. JOHN'S JOB THIS PAST OFF SEASON AND  NELLY JUNIOR JOSEPH SAID, YOU KNOW, I AM GOING TO TRY A  BIGGER CONFERENCE, BIGGER LEVEL OF BASKETBALL AND  TRANSFERRED TO NEW MEXICO AND HERE HE IS.

IT WAS A FUN STORY BECAUSE NOT ONLY IS NELLY JUNIOR JOSEPH A  LITTLE BIT HARD TO UNDERSTAND IN THE INTERVIEW AND HAS A  GREAT STORY TO TELL AND LOVES TELLING IT.

NOT ONLY THAT BUT LIKE HE IS ALSO A REALLY GOOD BASKETBALL  PLAYER WHICH DOES LEND ITSELF TO A CERTAIN, I GUESS, APPEAL  WHEN YOU'RE WRITING ABOUT BASKETBALL AND ABOUT A TEAM  AND A FAN BASE THAT WANTS TO READ GOOD STORIES.

>> Lou: WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE EARLY CONFERENCE OR EARLY  NONCONFERENCE GAMES INFLUENCING TOURNAMENT  PLACEMENT, HOW DID UNM END UP WITH AN 11 SEED?

THE TEAM BEATS SDSU WHO ENDS UP WITH FIVE SEED AND UNM IS  SITTING THERE AT 11.

AND PLAYING CLEMSON.

>> Grammer: YEAH, BEAT THEM TWICE.

YOU KNOW, THEY PLAYED THEM THREE TIMES THIS YEAR AND UNM  WAS 2-1 AGAINST SAN DIEGO STATE, 2-1 AGAINST COLORADO  STATE WHO MADE THE TOURNAMENT, 1 AND 2 AGAINST THE BOISE  STATE TEAM THAT MADE THE TOURNAMENT AND 2-0 AGAINST  NEVADA.

SO THEY ACTUALLY HAD A REALLY  GOOD RECORD WITHIN THE CONFERENCE OF THE TEAMS THAT  MADE THE TOURNAMENT.

THE PROBLEM WAS THE SELECTION  COMMITTEE REALLY, FRANKLY, AND I AM NOT THE ONLY SAYING THIS,  FRANKLY, KIND OF DISRESPECTED THE MOUNTAIN WEST AND SAID ALL  THOSE GOOD WINS THESE TEAMS GOT WITHIN CONFERENCE PLAY  WERE JUST AGAINST EACH OTHER.

THEY DIDN'T DO IT IN NOVEMBER  AS WE WERE TALKING ABOUT JUST A LITTLE WHILE AGO.

THEY DIDN'T DO IT IN NOVEMBER AGAINST REALLY GOOD TEAMS,  THEY WERE JUST DOING IT AGAINST EACH OTHER, SO LET'S  NOT EVEN WEIGH THOSE IN AS MUCH AS WE NORMALLY WOULD.

THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS THAT IS WHAT THE BIG 10 AND THE SEC  AND THE BIG 12 HAVE BEEN DOING FOR YEARS.

THEY TRADITIONALLY HAVE PLAYED WEAK NONCONFERENCE SCHEDULES  AND THEN IN LEAGUE PLAY, SAY, WELL, EVERY NIGHT IS A REALLY  TOUGH OPPONENT SO THAT IS WHAT BUILDS US UP FOR THE NCAA  TOURNAMENT.

WELL, THE MOUNTAIN WEST DID  THAT THIS YEAR AND THEN KIND OF GOT PUNISHED FOR IT.

IT IS A WEIRD DYNAMIC THAT THE MOUNTAIN WEST FINALLY GOT TO  THE POINT THEY WERE GETTING ALL THESE IN-LEAGUE GAMES  AGAINST NCAA-WORTHY TEAMS BUT THEN THEY GOT PUNISHED FOR IT.

THE MOUNTAIN WEST WOULD LOVE TO BE IN THAT SAME PREDICAMENT  NEXT YEAR, BUT I DO THINK THEY ARE GOING TO TWEAK THE METRICS  A LITTLE BIT.

I WAS SURPRISED THAT THE  MOUNTAIN WEST GOT SEEDED THE WAY THEY DID, AS YOU SAID.

NEW MEXICO WAS 11 SEED.

THEY WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN IN HAD  THEY NOT WON THE MOUNTAIN WEST TOURNAMENT AND THE SELECTION  CHAIR COMMITTEE SAID THAT.

OR THE CHAIRMAN OF THE  COMMITTEE SAID THAT.

THEY WON THE MOUNTAIN WEST  TOURNAMENT FOUR GAMES IN FOUR DAYS, BEAT THREE NCAA  TOURNAMENT TEAMS IN A ROW TO DO THAT, YOU KNOW, COLORADO  STATE, I THINK SOME PEOPLE THOUGHT THEY WERE A 7 OR 8  SEED.

THEY GOT A 10 SEED AND HAD TO  PLAY A PLAY-IN GAME.

SAME WITH BOISE STATE.

THE MOUNTAIN WEST DIDN'T EXACTLY GET A WHOLE LOT OF  RESPECT SHOWN ON SELECTION SUNDAY.

>> Lou: DO YOU THINK THAT ADDED TO THE CHIP ON LOBO  FAN'S SHOULDERS?

>> Grammer: WELL, THE CHIP ON  LOBO FANS SHOULDERS IS A VERY NEW MEXICO CHIP.

I THINK NEW MEXICANS HAVE A CHIP ON THEIR SHOULDER, IN  GENERAL, AND IT IS A PROUD STATE AND A PROUD FAN BASE  AND, YEAH, I DO THINK IT ADDED TO IT JUST A LITTLE BIT AND  WHILE THERE IS SOME SATISFACTION WITH JUST GETTING  TO THE TOURNAMENT FOR THE FIRST TIME IN A DECADE AND  WINNING MORE GAMES THAN YOU HAVE IN A DECADE, ALL THOSE  THINGS, YOU CAN BE PRETTY HAPPY WITH ALL THAT AND STILL  BE PRETTY MAD WITH HOW IT ENDED UP ONCE IT GOT TO THE  TOURNAMENT WITH THE 21-POINT LOSS.

>> Lou: BEING A LOBO FAN IT COMES WITH HAVING HIGH  EXPECTATIONS, HAVING THOSE EXPECTATIONS DROP.

YOU SEE THEM WIN THE MOUNTAIN WEST TOURNAMENT AND THEY ARE  RIGHT BACK WHERE THEY STARTED.

>> Grammer: ABSOLUTELY.

>> Lou: WHAT ARE A FEW THINGS THAT YOU HAVE LEARNED ABOUT  THE REBOUND FAN BASE?

>> Grammer: OH, THE LOBO FAN  BASE IS VERY NEW MEXICO.

I MEAN, THERE IS A PRIDE THAT  THEY WILL FIGHT WITH EACH OTHER, THEY WILL FIGHT WITH  THE PLAYERS SOMETIMES, THEY WILL SAY SOME THINGS ABOUT THE  COACHES, THEY WILL DO ALL THOSE THINGS THAT A FAMILY  DOES.

THEY WILL FIGHT WITH SIBLINGS  LIKE NONE OTHER, BUT IF ANYBODY ELSE, I TELL YOU WHAT,  IF A NEVADA FAN OR A BOISE STATE FAN OR SAN DIEGO STATE  FAN SAYS THE EXACT SAME THING ABOUT A LOBO OR ABOUT A LOBO  FAN, THEN IT IS ON, RIGHT?

THAT IS THE PRIDE.

THAT IS THE FIGHTER STATE MENTALITY OF NEW MEXICO AND I  THINK IT IS VERY REPRESENTATIVE OF   THE STATE AS A WHOLE.

AND I THINK NEW MEXICO STATE HAS THAT AS WELL, DOWN THE  ROAD IN LAS CRUCES.

I THINK THE AGGIES HAVE THAT  FOR SURE.

AGGIES HAVE IT AGAINST THE  LOBOS A LOT MORE.

THE LOBOS HAVE MORE OF AN US  AGAINST THE WORLD WHILE AGGIE FANS, AND I WENT TO NEW MEXICO  STATE, HAVE AN US AGAINST THE WORLD, BUT ALSO US AGAINST THE  LOBOS A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN THE LOBOS HAVE ON US AGAINST  THE AGGIES, KIND OF THING.

I THINK LOBO FANS ARE JUST US  AGAINST EVERYBODY.

>> Lou: FIRST TIME THE TEAMS  MADE THE NCAA TOURNAMENT IN A DECADE.

MUCH OF THAT IS THANKS TO HEAD COACH RICHARD PITINO IN JUST  HIS THIRD YEAR.

WE KNOW HE IS NOT GOING TO  LOUISVILLE, THANKS TO YOUR REPORTING.

IS HE FOR SURE STICKING AROUND, THOUGH, AND FOR HOW  LONG?

>> Grammer: IT IS A GOOD  QUESTION.

IT IS A FAIR QUESTION, BECAUSE  HE OBVIOUSLY NOW ON TWO OFF SEASONS HAS TALKED WITH  ANOTHER TEAM.

LAST YEAR, THE UNIVERSITY OF  SOUTH FLORIDA OFFERED HIM A 1.8 MILLION DOLLAR CONTRACT TO  BE THEIR HEAD COACH.

HE HAS FAMILY IN THE TAMPA  AREA WHICH IS WHY HE LISTENED TO THEM.

ULTIMATELY TURNED DOWN 1.8 MILLION IN A LEAGUE THAT  HE DIDN'T THINK WAS AS GOOD AS THE MOUNTAIN WEST AND A  PROGRAM THAT PROBABLY ISN'T CONSISTENTLY COMPETING FOR  CHAMPIONSHIPS LIKE HE BELIEVES NEW MEXICO CAN WITHIN ITS  LEAGUE.

SO HE CAME BACK, GOT PAID  1.1 MILLION.

AGAIN, TURNED DOWN 1.8, CAME  BACK TO COACH FOR 1.1 MILLION AND SORT OF SAID, LOOK, MY  FAMILY WAS THERE, THERE WAS REASON I LISTENED, BUT I AM  HERE.

I LOVE THE FAN BASE.

GENERALLY, I BELIEVE, STILL LOVES THE FAN BASE.

I THINK HE DOES LOVE THIS PROGRAM.

BUT WHEN LOUISVILLE CAME CALLING AND DID REACH OUT AND  PUT A FEELER OUT AND THEY HAD A COUPLE OF CONVERSATIONS, IT  IS A PLACE HIS FAMILY LIVED FOR 14 YEARS OR 16 YEARS, AND  HE WAS AN ASSISTANT THERE.

HIS DAD WAS A HEAD COACH  THERE.

HE HAD SOME TIES AND THEY WERE  GOING TO TRIPLE HIS SALARY.

HE HAS FROM DAY ONE NOT ONCE  LIED ABOUT KIND OF LIKE MAYBE A FORMER COACH STEVE ALFORD A  LITTLE BIT WHERE HE WAS TALKING ABOUT, YOU DON'T MESS  WITH HAPPY, WE ARE SO HAPPY HERE.

SORT OF INSINUATED, IF NOT FLAT OUT SAID, WE PLAN TO BE  HERE FOR A LONG TIME AND THEN LEFT FOR LA.

RICHARD PITINO HASN'T DONE THAT.

HE HAS BEEN PRETTY HONEST AND UP FRONT.

HE'LL BE HERE AS LONG AS THIS IS THE JOB THAT IS AS GOOD AS  IT IS RIGHT NOW FOR HIM.

IF A BETTER JOB DOES COME  ALONG, HE HASN'T BEEN DISHONEST WITH PEOPLE ABOUT  THAT.

HE WILL LISTEN.

AND IF YOU CAN TRIPLE A MAN'S SALARY AND HE HAS YOUNG KIDS,  YEAH, HE IS GOING TO LISTEN.

LOUISVILLE OFFERED THAT  OPPORTUNITY SO HE LISTENED.

I THINK IN THE LONG-TERM YOU  CAN PROBABLY EXPECT THIS EVERY YEAR THEY HAVE SUCCESS, YOU  CAN PROBABLY EXPECT HIM TO LISTEN AGAIN.

>> Lou: GOOD NEWS FOR NOW.

A LITTLE BIT OF PESSIMISM FROM  ME NOW.

IF HE WERE TO LEAVE THE  PROGRAM, IS THAT AUTOMATICALLY A STEP BACK AND HOW CONCERNED  SHOULD LOBO FANS BE ABOUT HOW THE TEAM WILL LOOK IF AND WHEN  THEY EVENTUALLY DO LOSE HIM.

>> Grammer: THIS IS AN  EXAMPLE.

HAD HE LEFT RIGHT NOW.

YOU GOT TWO YOUNG PLAYERS THAT ARE SORT OF FUNCTIONAL  BUILDING BLOCKS FOR THE FUTURE IN AN ERA WHERE THEY ARE  ALLOWED TO TRANSFER AT LEAST ONE TIME, I THINK, FRANKLY,  YOU COULD TRANSFER ANY YEAR AND THEY CHALLENGE IT, BUT  WHATEVER.

YOU CAN TRANSFER AT LEAST ONCE  WITHOUT SITTING OUT.

THERE IS A ONE-TIME TRANSFER  RULE THAT YOU CAN GO WHEREVER YOU WANT.

HAD HE LEFT RIGHT NOW, IF YOU LOOK AROUND THE COUNTRY, ANY  HEAD COACH LEAVING A PROGRAM, THE STAR PLAYERS ARE LEAVING,  EITHER FOLLOWING THAT COACH TO WHERE THEY GO OR THEY ARE JUST  TESTING THE MARKET, IF YOU WILL.

KIND OF A FREE AGENCY THING.

HE HIMSELF, RICHARD PITINO  HIMSELF, USED THAT TERM.

IT IS A FREE AGENCY FOR  EVERYBODY NOW.

WELL, DONOVAN DENT IS A  SOPHOMORE NOW GOING INTO HIS JUNIOR YEAR, JT TOPPIN IS A  FRESHMAN UP FOR A NATIONAL FRESHMAN OF THE YEAR AWARD.

GOING INTO HIS SOPHOMORE YEAR NOW.

THOSE TWO GUYS ARE FOUNDATIONAL BUILDING BLOCKS  THAT WILL MAKE THE LOBOS, IF THEY STAYED -- LIKE IN THE OLD  DAYS, IF THEY STAYED THROUGHOUT THEIR CAREERS, THE  NEXT TWO YEARS, THE LOBOS WOULD BE CONSIDERED AMONG THE  LEAGUE FAVORITES ONLY BECAUSE OF THOSE TWO GUYS AND FILL IN  A BUNCH OF BUMS AROUND THEM AND THEY PROBABLY STILL BE  CONSIDERED SOME OF THE LEAGUE FAVORITES BECAUSE OF THOSE TWO  GUYS.

HAD PITINO LEFT, I IMAGINE  BOTH OF THOSE GUYS, NOT ONLY PROBABLY WOULD HAVE LEFT, THEY  CERTAINLY WOULD HAVE HAD A FULL COURT PRESS PUT ON THEM  FROM SCHOOLS THAT OFFER A LOT OF NIL MONEY, WHICH IS NAME  IMAGE LIKENESS.

PLAYERS CAN MAKE MONEY NOW AND  SHOULD, FRANKLY, BUT THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN OFFERED AN  AWFUL LOT OF MONEY FROM SOME PRETTY GOOD PROGRAMS TO COME.

THEY ARE STILL BEING OFFERED MONEY RIGHT NOW AND BEING  COURTED BY THESE GOOD PROGRAMS.

BUT WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT, THE NAME OF THE GAME NOW  IS THIS NIL MONEY AND THE 505 SPORTS VENTURE FOUNDATION, NOT  THAT I AM GIVING A PLUG THERE, THAT JUST HAPPENS TO BE THE  NIL COLLECTOR FOR LOBO SPORTS, THEY WERE AHEAD OF THE CURVE  TWO YEARS AGO, THEY ARE AHEAD OF THE CURVE NOW.

RIGHT NOW IT IS THEM AND UNLV IN THE MOUNTAIN WEST THAT HAVE  THE MOST MONEY TO OFFER LOBO ATHLETES, ESPECIALLY LOBO  BASKETBALL.

THEY ARE NOW STEPPING IT UP  WITH FOOTBALL A LITTLE BIT.

TO KEEP PLAYERS LIKE DONOVAN  DENT AND JT TOPPIN IN LOBO UNIFORMS.

THEY ARE PRETTY CONFIDENT THOSE TWO GUYS ARE COMING  BACK.

OTHER GUYS THAT WOULD BE KIND  OF PICKED OFF BY GOOD PROGRAMS ARE TRU WASHINGTON WAS A VERY  FRESHMAN ON THE TEAM AND THEN SOME GUYS THAT DIDN'T PLAY TOO  MUCH, QUINTON WEBB, BRADEN APPELHANS.

BOTH OF THOSE GUYS ARE PLAYERS THAT I THINK WILL COME BACK  BECAUSE THE NIL COLLECTIVE AT UNM IS A PRETTY GOOD ONE RIGHT  NOW.

>> Lou: GOOD TO KNOW.

DESPITE THAT, THOUGH, SEBASTIAN FORSLING, JAMAL  MASHBURN, JR., THEY DID ENTER THE TRANSFER PORTAL.

WHAT CAN THE UNIVERSITY DO TO KEEP PLAYERS LIKE TOPPIN AND  DENT FROM MAKING THAT STEP?

>> Grammer: TO KEEP OTHER  PLAYERS, THE DONOVAN DENTS,  THE JT TOPPINS, HOW JAELEN HOUSE CAME BACK THIS YEAR FOR  A FIFTH YEAR AFTER HE EARNED HIS DEGREE A YEAR AGO, HOW HE  CAME BACK FOR THAT FINAL YEAR OF ELIGIBILITY IS BECAUSE THE  NIL COLLECTIVE HAS RAISED ENOUGH MONEY TO OFFER, I DON'T  WANT TO SAY, COMPETITIVE IS PROBABLY THE BEST TERM.

IT IS NOT NECESSARILY EQUAL TO WHAT A JAELEN HOUSE COULD HAVE  MADE OVERSEAS PLAYING IN EUROPE.

HE PROBABLY COULD HAVE GOT A LITTLE MORE OVER THERE, BUT HE  WAS ACTUALLY OFFERED FAIRLY COMPETITIVE MONEY TO PLAY ONE  MORE YEAR OF COLLEGE BASKETBALL.

IT FEELS SO UNLIKE WHAT COLLEGE ATHLETICS HAS BEEN  LIKE FOREVER.

SO IT FEELS MAYBE WRONG TO A  LOT OF PEOPLE BUT MAYBE COLLEGE ATHLETICS SHOULD HAVE  BEEN THIS WAY ONCE IT BECAME A MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR INDUSTRY  20 OR 30 YEARS AGO AND THE PLAYERS NOW ARE STARTING TO  GET SOME OF THAT.

I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE VIEW  IT AS, WELL, THEY ARE JUST GOING TO KEEP TAKING PLAYERS  AWAY, BUT NIL IS AS MUCH ABOUT RETENTION AS IT IS ABOUT  RECRUITING.

SO I THINK UNM IS IN AN OKAY  SPOT RELATIVE TO THE MOUNTAIN WEST TO BE ABLE TO RETAIN  PLAYERS, LIKE DONOVAN DENT, JT TOPPIN.

BUT IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE TOP FOUR TEAMS IN THE COUNTRY  NOW, HOUSTON, YUKON, PURDUE, IF THEY COME CALLING AND WANT  A DONOVAN DENT AND THEY OFFER 4 OR $500,000 TO PLAY NEXT  YEAR, HE IS GOING TO HAVE TO CONSIDER IT.

HE IS A 19, 20 YEAR OLD KID AND HE WOULD PROBABLY CONSIDER  THAT.

>> Lou: NOW, CONSIDERING  EVERYTHING WE JUST TALKED ABOUT, WHAT IS THE SETUP FOR  NEXT YEAR?

SHOULD FANS BE OPTIMISTIC FOR  ANOTHER SHOT AT THE MOUNTAIN WEST TITLE, MAYBE ANOTHER  BERTH IN THE NCAA TOURNAMENT?

>> Grammer: YEAH,   LET'S PUT -- YOU KNOW, A FEW YEARS AGO YOU  LOOK AT A FRESHMAN ON A TEAM AND A SOPHOMORE ON A TEAM AND  WHAT IS COMING BACK.

LET'S ASSUME IT IS ALL COMING  BACK, RIGHT?

AS OF RIGHT NOW, NOBODY ELSE  IS PLANNING, OR AT LEAST PUBLICLY, TO ENTER THE  TRANSFER PORTAL.

SO BASED ON THAT, IF EVERYBODY  ON THE ROSTER RIGHT NOW COMES BACK, THE LOBOS WILL PROBABLY  BE THE PRESEASON FAVORITE TO WIN THE MOUNTAIN WEST NEXT  YEAR WITH DONOVAN DENTON AND JT TOPPIN LEADING THE WAY.

YOU ARE PROBABLY LOOKING AT A TRU WASHINGTON AS ANOTHER  STARTER.

NELLY JUNIOR JOSEPH PLANS TO  COME BACK FOR HIS FINAL YEAR OF ELIGIBILITY AT THE CENTER  SPOT.

AND THEN YOU PROBABLY MOVE  MUSTAPHA AMZIL, WHO PLANS TO COME BACK, AT LEAST FOR NOW,  INTO THE THREE SPOT.

YOU'RE LOOKING AT A FIVE-MAN  STARTING ROTATION FOR THE LOBOS THAT GOT EXTENSIVE  MINUTES THIS YEAR.

NO OTHER TEAM IN THE MOUNTAIN  WEST IS GOING TO HAVE THAT.

A LOT OF TEAMS IN THE MOUNTAIN  WEST ARE LOSING KEY PLAYERS.

COLORADO STATE MADE THE  TOURNAMENT, LOSING ONE OF THE BEST POINT GUARDS IN LEAGUE  HISTORY IN ISIAH STEVENS.

NEVADA, THEY ARE LOSING THEIR  TWO BEST PLAYERS, KENAN BLACKSHEAR AND JERROD LUCAS,  TWO TOP SCORERS ARE GONE.

YOU'RE LOOKING AT SAN DIEGO  STATE, THEIR BEST PLAYER, AN ALL AMERICAN, JAEDON LEDEE, HE  IS GONE.

HE IS A SENIOR.

SO EVERYONE IN THE LEAGUE IS LOSING REALLY KEY PLAYERS.

AND LOBOS ARE TOO WITH JAELEN HOUSE AND JAMAL MASHBURN, JR.

BUT I DON'T THINK ANYONE ELSE IN THE LEAGUE IS GOING TO HAVE  FIVE GUYS BACK THAT GOT EXTENDED LIKE THE LOBOS.

SO, IF THEY ARE NOT A PRESEASON PICK TO WIN THE  LEAGUE, I DON'T SEE THEM BEING WORST THAN SECOND OR THIRD IN  THE LEAGUE PRESEASON PICKS AND THERE IS REASON FOR OPTIMISM  WHICH ALSO MEANS REASON FOR DISAPPOINTMENT IF THEY DON'T  ACHIEVE WHAT LOBO FANS EXPECT.

>> Lou: UNDERSTOOD.

JEFF GRAMMER, THANKS SO MUCH.

>> Grammer: ABSOLUTELY.

THANKS.

>> Lou: THANKS TO JEFF  GRAMMER.

GO AHEAD AND FOLLOW HIM ON  TWITTER IF YOU DON'T ALREADY.

WE WEREN'T KIDDING ABOUT HIS  LOVE FOR TACO AT THOSE ISOTOPES GAMES.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.