>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY THE MCCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION AND THE NEEPER NATURAL HISTORY PROGRAMMING FUND FOR KNME-TV AND VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, WE ARE ON THE CHANGING RIO GRANDE WITH OUR LAND.

>> Esslinger: WE ARE SHORT ON SURFACE WATER.

WE HAVE BEEN SHORT FOR GOING ON 20 SOME ODD YEARS.

>> Gene: AND WE TALK TO THE HEALTH SECRETARY ABOUT THE STATUS OF NEW MEXICO'S VACCINE PUSH.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I AM YOUR HOST GENE GRANT.

MANY OF US HAVE VACCINES ON OUR MIND THIS MONTH.

IN ADDITION TO THAT INTERVIEW WITH DR. TRACIE COLLINS, WE'LL BANDY ABOUT NEW MEXICO'S SUCCESS AND STUMBLES WITH THE LINE OPINION PANEL.

WE'LL ALSO A TAKE A DIFFERENT LOOK AT THE RIO GRANDE WITH AN INNOVATIVE ART INSTALLATION THAT EXPLORES THE DEEP HISTORY OF RIVER.

WE START WITH THE GOVERNOR'S ACTION ON BILLS FROM THE REGULAR SESSION, WHAT LAWMAKERS GOT DONE AND WHAT MIGHT HAVE MISSED ITS CHANCE.

GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM PUT HER NAME TO SCORES OF BILLS OVER THE PAST COUPLE WEEKS.

WITH COMFORTABLE MAJORITIES IN BOTH CHAMBERS OF THE LEGISLATURE, THE BILLS, AS WE DISCUSSED HERE BEFORE, REFLECT A CHANGING NATURE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

WHAT WILL THEY MEAN FOR OUR STATE AND WHAT MIGHT HAVE MISSED ITS CHANCE IN THE REGULAR SESSION?

HERE TO HELP US SORT IT OUT IS THE LINE OPINION PANEL.

WE HAVE TWO REGULARS AND A FREQUENT GUEST THIS WEEK.

EDITOR AND PUBLISHER OF THE SANTA FE REPORTER, JULIE ANN GRIMM IS BACK.

FORMER NEW MEXICO HOUSE MINORITY WHIP DANIEL FOLEY RETURNS AS DOES ANOTHER REGULAR, SOPHIE MARTIN.

START WITH THE MOST RECENT ACTION IN THE SPECIAL SESSION BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR HAS SIGNALED SHE WILL SIGN THE BILL TO LEGALIZE RECREATIONAL CANNABIS AND JULIE ANN, IS THIS IS A GAME-CHANGING LAW IT WOULD HAVE TWO OR THREE YEARS AGO; A MATTER OF CHANGING THE LANGUAGE, WHICH A LOT OF FOLKS ARE TRYING TO DO OR IS NEW MEXICO A LITTLE FURTHER BACK ON THE CREST OF THE WAVE OF STATES DOING THIS?

>> Julie Ann: EVEN THOUGH NEW MEXICO IS NOT THE FIRST STATE, WE ARE UP IN THE HIGH TEENS NOW, I THINK THIS IS A GAME CHANGER IN NEW MEXICO.

THIS CHANGES THE WAY THAT A LOT OF NEW MEXICANS CONDUCT THEIR DAILY LIVES.

IT FREES PEOPLE TO PARTICIPATE IN THE RECREATIONAL RELAXATIONAL SUBSTANCE OF THEIR CHOICE RATHER THAN SAYING, ALCOHOL IS FINE AND CANNABIS IS BAD.

SO, I THINK THAT IS A BIG SIGNIFICANT CHANGE FOR NEW MEXICO.

WE ARE ALSO GOING TO SEE TAX REVENUES FOR THE LOCAL AND STATE GOVERNMENT THAT REPRESENT NOT SMALL SUMS OF MONEY NO MATTERS WHO MATH YOU ARE USING SO I THINK THOSE ARE TWO BIG CHANGES THAT ARE COMING.

>> Gene: LET ME ASK DANIEL ON YOUR POINT THERE ABOUT THE FINANCIAL IMPACT.

IS IT TOURISTS, NATIVE NEW MEXICANS, WHERE IS THE LARGESS COMING FROM WHEN THIS THING GETS GOING?

>> Dan: I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK YOU'LL SEE A KIND OF LIKE, YOU KNOW, I AM NOT COMPARING THE TWO, SORT OF LIKE THE GAMBLING, RIGHT?

YOU'LL SEE IF YOU ARE LOCATED IN ALBUQUERQUE, YOU'RE PRETTY MUCH ATTRACTING ALBUQUERQUE, IF YOU'RE IN RUIDOSO OR HOBBS YOU'RE ATTRACTING PEOPLE FROM TEXAS.

I THINK THE PEOPLE IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO, I AM NOT SURE THAT IT IS THAT BIG OF A DEAL BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN LEGALIZED IN COLORADO, BUT, YOU KNOW, FOLKS THAT LIVE DOWN ON THE SIDE THAT ARE CLOSEST TO TEXAS, BIG DEAL.

A LOT OF PEOPLE FROM TEXAS WILL COME OVER.

THERE IS DEFINITELY GOING TO BE A TOURISM ASPECT.

LOOK, NEW MEXICO HAS LONG BEEN AN OUTDOORSY KIND OF HIPPIE KIND OF STATE, KIND OF A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE LIKE TO COME TO CHACO CANYON, HAVE A SPIRITUAL INTERACTION.

SO I CAN SEE THIS ENHANCING THAT OPPORTUNITY FOR MORE PEOPLE TO WANT TO COME HERE.

I THINK IT IS ALSO GOING TO BE -- I THINK AT SOME LEVEL YOU'LL SEE INCREASE IN THE USE BY NEW MEXICANS SO THE QUESTION IS WILL YOU SEE A TRADE OFF, YOU KNOW.

WILL PEOPLE STOP BUYING BEER AND ALCOHOL AND USE THAT DISPOSABLE INCOME TO BUY MARIJUANA OR WHAT WILL HAPPEN.

SO, I THINK IT IS GOING TO BE A COMBINATION OF THE TWO.

I THINK GEOGRAPHICALLY IT WILL HAVE A BIGGER IMPACT ON WHERE THAT MONEY, WHETHER IT IS TOURISM OR NOT.

>> Gene: DAN THAT WAS PART OF THE QUESTION WITH JULIE ANN AS WELL.

TWO OR THREE YEARS AGO YOU HEARD THINGS LIKE, OH, WE'LL SCORE 250 TO 300 MILLION OUR FIRST YEAR OF DOING THIS.

NOW YOU HEAR THINGS LIKE 25 TO 50 MILLION COMING IN.

DO WE KNOW HOW MUCH WE'LL MAKE OUT OF THIS IN THE FIRST COUPLE OF YEARS.

>> Dan: NOT ONLY DO WE NOT KNOW HOW MUCH WE ARE GOING TO MAKE.

I WANT TO GO ON RECORD, I HAVE BEEN A FAN, AN ADVOCATE OF DECRIMINALIZING AND LEGALIZATION SINCE I WAS IN THE LEGISLATURE.

DON'T USE IT.

I JUST THINK IT IS ODD THAT YOU CAN GO OUT AND DRINK A PINT OF VODKA AND THAT IS OKAY, BUT YOU CAN'T GO OUT AND SMOKE A LITTLE BIT OF WEED.

MAKES NO SENSE TO ME AND IT IS A PERSONAL CHOICE.

IT IS INTERESTING THAT THE NUMBERS ARE COMING DOWN.

ONE OF THE REASONS THE NUMBERS ARE COMING DOWN IS THE GROWING PROCESS IS BECOMING MORE MANAGEABLE IF THERE IS MORE -- PRICING IS BECOMING MORE EFFECTIVE.

BEING ABLE TO GO OUT AND GET IT.

I THINK THE BIG QUESTION IS GOING TO BE THE LONG-TERM, POTENTIAL LONG-TERM CONSEQUENCES OR WHAT THE NET REVENUE IS GOING TO BE, RIGHT?

ARE WE PUTTING AWAY 10, 15, 20, 30, 100 MILLION DOLLARS TODAY AND THE QUESTION AS YOU HEAR FROM PEOPLE THAT OPPOSED IT, ARE THERE LONG-TERM CONSEQUENCES LATER ON?

ARE WE GETTING THE MONEY TODAY OR MORE IMPORTANTLY, ARE WE PUTTING THAT MONEY AWAY TO SOLVE THOSE CONSEQUENCES LATER.

I THINK 25 IS FAR MORE REALISTIC NUMBER.

REMEMBER, IN THE PAST, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT 2 OR 300 MILLION DOLLARS, WE WERE GOING TO BE ONE OF THE FIRST STATES TO LEGALIZE IT.

SO YOU HAVE PEOPLE -- THERE IS NO DOUBT THERE IS A COMPLETE CANNABIS TOURISM INDUSTRY, RIGHT?

THERE IS AN ENTIRE INDUSTRY GEARED TOWARDS DOING THAT.

NOW THAT WE ARE NOT ONE OF THE TOP FIVE, FIRST FIVE, I THINK THAT REVENUE IS GOING TO HAVE IMPACTS.

>> Julie Ann: I JUST WANTED TO SAY, I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TOO WHEN YOU LOOK AT ALL THE CALCULATIONS ABOUT THE OVER TIME THE CHANGES FOR THIS, YOU KNOW.

OVER TIME, EXPECTATION IS THAT FEWER PEOPLE WILL TURN TO THE ELICIT MARKET AND MORE PEOPLE WILL BE BUYING CANNABIS IN THESE TAXED AND REGULATED INDUSTRY RETAILERS, BUT THAT IS NOT GOING TO BE DEMONSTRATED UNTIL TIME MARCHES ON.

I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF FACTORS THAT WILL FEED INTO IT INCLUDING LIKE WHETHER YOU SEE CITIES AND COUNTIES RAISE THEIR GRT.

THEY ARE ALREADY -- IN THE TAX CODE ALLOWS YOU TO INCREASE YOUR INCREMENT, IF YOU VOTE, SO, KIND OF HOW MUCH CANNABIS IS TAXED IS REALLY GOING TO BE A FACTOR.

THE LAW ALSO CONTEMPLATES CHANGING THE TAX RATE OVER TIME.

IT DOESN'T JUST CONTEMPLATE IT, IT IS THERE.

THE EXCISE TAX STARTS OFF AT A CERTAIN RATE AND OVER SIX YEARS INCREASES ALL THE WAY UP TO 18%.

>> Gene: GOOD POINTS.

REALLY IMPORTANT PART OF THIS SITUATION, HAS THIS BECOME MORE OF A SOCIAL JUSTICE BILL.

>> Sophie: I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY THAT.

IT IS WORTH REMEMBERING THAT THERE WERE REALLY TWO PIECES OF LEGISLATION THAT ADDRESS NEW MEXICO AND CANNABIS THAT CAME OUT OF THE SPECIAL SESSION.

THE FIRST ONE THAT WAS DECIDED WAS AUTOMATIC EXPUNGE-MENT FOR CERTAIN WHAT WERE CRIMINAL OFFENSES RELATING TO CANNABIS AND THAT AUTOMATIC EXPUNGE-MENT WILL MEAN THAT PEOPLE WHO HAVE CONVICTIONS FOR CANNABIS POSSESSION WILL NO LONGER HAVE THOSE ON THEIR RECORDS AND THAT IS A BIG THING.

BECAUSE THAT RECORD CAN FOLLOW AND DOES FOLLOW SOMEBODY AS THEY TRY TO GET JOBS AND AS THEY, YOU KNOW, AS THEY GO THROUGH THEIR LIVES SO THAT EXPUNGE-MENT, THAT CLEARING OF THAT RECORD BECAUSE WE NO LONGER CONSIDER THIS A CRIMINAL MATTER, IS A VERY BIG DEAL AND SOMETHING THEY WERE ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF UP FRONT.

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE COSTS AND, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT IT FROM AN ECONOMIC PERSPECTIVE, IT IS STILL IMPORTANT TO THINK OF THE SOCIAL JUSTICE AND COMMUNITY JUSTICE ISSUES FOR OUR LARGER COMMUNITY IN NEW MEXICO AND ALSO TO RECOGNIZE THAT THERE WILL LIKELY BE SAVINGS IN TERMS OF OUR INCARCERATION COSTS.

OUR POLICING COSTS.

YES, WE WILL STILL HAVE DUI LAWS ON THE BOOKS PEOPLE -- YOU KNOW -- THERE WON'T BE NO CONSEQUENCES IF THERE ARE ISSUES WITH YOUR CANNABIS USE BUT CERTAINLY THOSE SMALLER, WHAT WE NOW CONSIDER PRETTY INCONSEQUENTIAL POSSESSION CHARGES, THEY ARE OUT.

>> Gene: THE GOVERNOR SIGNED A NUMBER OF EDUCATIONAL BILLS INCLUDING TO MAKE SURE FEDERAL AID FLOWS TO LOW INCOME DISTRICTS AS WELL AS MORE STATE MONEY TARGETING MANY OF THOSE SAME PLACES AND ALSO CREATED OMBUDSMAN FOR SPECIAL EDUCATION, LET'S NOT FORGET ABOUT THAT.

AND MORE TEACHERS FROM STATE COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES.

DOES THIS FEEL SIGNIFICANT?

SOMETHING FEELS SIGNIFICANT HERE WHEN YOU TAKE THEM ALL AND PUSH THEM ALTOGETHER IN THE EDUCATION PILE.

>> Julie Ann: WITH THE DEMOCRAT CONTROLLED LEGISLATURE AND GOVERNOR'S PRIORITIES THEY WERE ABLE TO PUSH THROUGH SOME OF THOSE PLANS THAT HAVE BEEN LONG ENVISIONED BY THAT FACTION.

I THINK THAT OVERALL THAT WILL HELP EDUCATION IN NEW MEXICO.

I STILL THINK WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO AND ESPECIALLY WITH SCHOOL JUST RETURNING IN PERSON AND ALL THE KINKS THAT NEED TO BE WORKED OUT WITH THAT, AND THE AWARENESS THAT INTERNET CONNECTIVITY IS REALLY A BIG PROBLEM.

I THINK THAT IT WAS A NEW PROBLEM THAT, YOU KNOW, CROPPED UP BUT IT JUST BECAME -- PEOPLE BECAME MUCH MORE AWARE OF HOW THIS CAN AFFECT A STUDENT'S POTENTIAL OUTCOME, WHETHER THEY HAVE STEADY RELIABLE ACCESS TO THE INTERNET OR NOT.

SO, I THINK THAT WHILE SOME OF THESE BIG FUNDING WRINKLES HAVE BEEN IRONED OUT, THAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A LOT MORE EDUCATION REFORM HAPPEN, I THINK, UNDER THIS CURRENT LEADERSHIP.

>> Gene: YAZZI MARTINEZ IS SORT OF FLOATING OVER THIS WHOLE THING.

DOES IT HELP IN THAT SITUATION, ALL THOSE INDIVIDUAL BILLS GETTING TOWARDS THAT GOAL?

>> Julie Ann: CERTAINLY.

I WASN'T ABLE TO REVIEW EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF THE PACKAGE THAT IS KNOWN AS YAZZI MARTINEZ PACKAGE OF REFORM BUT THAT COURT CASE REALLY MADE A LOT OF DIRECTIVES TO THE STATE WHICH I THINK THE STATE HAS BEEN SLOW TO ROLL OUT.

AND, AGAIN, WITH THE PANDEMIC, THOSE AREAS WHERE THE NEED WAS GREAT, JUST BECAME EXACERBATED, BECAME MORE OBVIOUS HOW GREAT THE NEED IS AND WHAT NEW MEXICO NEEDS TO DO TO SERVE STUDENTS IN RURAL AREAS, FOR EXAMPLE, AND STUDENTS WHO HAVE LANGUAGE DIFFERENCES, WHO HAVE ENGLISH AS A SECOND LANGUAGE AND IN NATIVE COMMUNITIES, THOSE ARE REALLY IMPORTANT.

>> Gene: DAN, BROADBAND CAME UP A LITTLE BIT AGO.

WE HAVE BEEN WATCHING RURAL URBAN DIVIDE.

CREATING OVERSIGHT FOR STATE SPENDING TO LOOK CLOSE TO THAT DIVIDE, DOES IT FEEL LIKE THE STATE IS STARTING TO GET A HANDLE ON WHAT IT IS GOING TO TAKE TO EXPAND BROADBAND?

ARE WE THERE YET OR WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE SOMETHING MORE?

>> Dan: A LOT OF THESE TECHNOLOGY THINGS IN NEW MEXICO, WE ARE ALWAYS A DAY LATE AND A DOLLAR SHORT.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BROADBAND AND NOW, AS SOMEONE WHO OWNS AN RV, PEOPLE ARE NOW TALKING ABOUT SATELLITE CONNECTIVITY IN THAT IT IS $280 A MONTH AND YOU CAN HAVE THIS THING ON YOUR MOTOR HOME THAT ALLOWS YOU TO HAVE BROADBAND-WIDE ACCESS TO THE SATELLITE AS LONG AS YOUR CLEAR TO THE SKY AND HERE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BURYING CABLES AND WIRES AND DIGGING HOLES AND GETTING RIGHT-OF-WAYS.

WE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE ON THE SHOW.

ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IS THAT NEW MEXICO HAS A UNIQUE SITUATION, WHICH IS WE HAVE WIDE SWATHS OF OPEN LAND BETWEEN URBAN AREAS.

SO, BECAUSE YOU HAVE STUFF IN ALBUQUERQUE DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET ALL OF THAT OUT TO WAGON MOUND, NEW MEXICO.

AND IT IS VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE.

SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THEM NOT ONLY TALK ABOUT THIS, BUT HOPEFULLY WITH THIS GROUP THEY ARE PUTTING TOGETHER, THEY ARE GOING TO PUT -- YOU KNOW -- WE HAVE PUT MONEY INTO BEING A SPACE PORT STATE AND OTHER THINGS.

WE SHOULD BE PUTTING MONEY INTO BECOMING A TECHNOLOGY HUB.

BECAUSE WE CAN FIGURE IT OUT HERE.

YOU'RE GOING TO FIGURE IT OUT PRETTY MUCH IN THE WORLD.

IF YOU CAN FIGURE OUT A WAY TO COMMUNICATE FROM CLOUDCROFT OR WAGON MOUND OR CARRIZOZO, YOU'LL SOLVE A LOT OF PROBLEMS AROUND THE COUNTRY AND AROUND THE WORLD AND WE NEED TO FOCUS ON THAT.

WE LOSE THAT LOTS OF TIMES.

WE FOCUS ON HOW DO WE HELP THE MA BELL COMPANIES?

HOW DO WE HELP THE CO-OPS?

HOW DO WE DO THESE OTHER THINGS THAT ARE OUT THERE AND WE FORGET THERE ARE OTHER ALTERNATIVE ANSWERS.

>> Gene: THE GOVERNOR SIGNED THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT THAT ALLOWS CLAIMS IN STATE DISTRICT COURT THAT PREVIOUSLY HAD TO BE FILED IN FEDERAL COURT.

THIS IS A BIG DEAL WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT.

IT REMOVES QUALIFIED IMMUNITY AS AN ACCEPTABLE DEFENSE TO THOSE CLAIMS BUT IT ALSO CAPS CLAIMS.

THIS IS ONE OF MY QUESTIONS.

AT TWO MILLION DOLLARS.

THAT SEEMS BIZARRE TO ME.

IS THAT JUST A STARTING POINT AND COURTS HAVE TO FIGURE THAT OUT AS IT GOES ALONG.

>> Sophie: THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION, BUT THE CAP IS THERE.

MY SENSE IS THAT IT WAS PUT IN PLACE IN PART IN ORDER TO GET THE THING THROUGH BECAUSE THERE WAS A LOT OF PUSH BACK AND STATES AREN'T AS QUITE POWERFUL AND MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENTS ARE QUITE POWERFUL IN NEW MEXICO AND THIS BILL, YOU KNOW, THIS CHANGE REALLY STRIKES AT THE IMMUNITY THAT EMPLOYEES AND THEN THEIR EMPLOYERS HAD IN THE COURTS.

SO, YOU KNOW, QUALIFIED IMMUNITY WAS AN IMPERFECT PROGRAM, DON'T KNOW, YOU KNOW, FRANKLY IT IS KIND OF A MESS BUT WITH NEW MEXICO SWEEPING THAT AWAY, IT REALLY REMAINS TO BE SEEN HOW THIS IS GOING TO WORK IN THE COURTS.

AND I THINK THAT THE COVERAGE THAT WE HAVE SEEN SO FAR HAS MAYBE MISSED ONE DETAIL THAT IS PRETTY IMPORTANT HERE WHICH IS THAT THE QUALIFIED IMMUNITY APPLIES TO VIOLATIONS OF RIGHTS UNDER THE NEW MEXICO CONSTITUTION AND THOSE ARE NOT EVERYTHING, RIGHT?

THAT IS NOT -- YOU CAN'T SUE FOR LITERALLY EVERYTHING.

IF YOU TAKE A LOOK AT BILL OF RIGHTS IN NEW MEXICO CONSTITUTION, IT PICKS OUT DIFFERENT THINGS BUT IT IS NOT -- THAT MAY ALSO NEED TO BE ADDRESSED HOW BROAD THOSE RIGHTS ARE DEFINED WITHIN THAT.

>> Gene: A LONG WAYS TO GO ON THAT BUT IT IS A START, AS THEY SAY.

A LITTLE BIT OF TIME ON THIS ONE, LEGISLATION THAT DIDN'T MAKE THE CUT, TAKE A COUPLE THINGS HERE.

THREE AREAS THAT CAUGHT MY ATTENTION.

POLICE REFORM, PAY DAY LENDING AND PROFESSIONALIZING THE LEGISLATURE.

I AM CURIOUS WHICH OF THOSE THINGS SURPRISED YOU THE MOST WITH ITS UNPOPULARITY?

>> Julie Ann: THESE EFFORTS TO REFORM LENDING IN NEW MEXICO, YOU KNOW, SMALL TIME LENDING SOMETIMES CALLED PAY DAY OR STORE FRONT LENDING, PREDATORY LENDING IS THE TERM WE USE AT SANTA FE REPORTER QUITE A BIT.

THIS IS NOT THE FIRST LEGISLATIVE SESSION IN WHICH LAWMAKERS HAVE ENTERTAINED REFORM, AND, AS YOU MENTIONED, IT WAS A LOSER THIS SESSION.

YOU HAD A BILL THAT WAS INTRODUCED BY SENATOR BILL SOULES THAT WOULD HAVE CAPPED THESE TYPES OF LOANS AT THE SAME RATE THAT THE MILITARY ISSUES A CAP.

YOU CAN'T ISSUE ONE OF THESE LOANS TO A MEMBER OF THE MILITARY FOR HIGHER THAN 36%.

BUT IN NEW MEXICO WE SAID IT IS OKAY TO CHARGE ANY NEW MEXICAN IN NEED OF MONEY 175% INTEREST.

THAT IS WHAT WE THINK IS OKAY, THAT IS WHAT THE LEGISLATURE THINKS IS OKAY.

WE HAVE SOME NEGOTIATION IN THE HOUSE WHERE THEY BIFURCATED THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF PREDATORY LOANS IN TERMS OF TRYING TO SET A HIGHER CAP FOR SOME AND A LOWER CAP FOR OTHERS.

ULTIMATELY THOSE AMENDMENTS WEREN'T FRIENDLY TO THE SENATE AND SO THAT BILL DIED IN THE CONCURRING COMMITTEE AND I'M SURE WE'LL SEE IT COME BACK AGAIN AT A FUTURE SESSION.

>> GENE: THAT WILL DO IT FOR OUR LEGISLATIVE LOOK.

WE'LL NO DOUBT TALK ABOUT ALL THE LAST MINUTE SIGNATURES OR VETOES ON THIS PROGRAM AND ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

JUST SEARCH NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS ON FACEBOOK, TWITTER OR INSTAGRAM.

>> THERE IS NO NEW NORMAL WHEN IT COMES TO THIS RIVER.

WE TALK ABOUT WHAT IS THE FLOW OF THIS RIVER RELATIVE TO THE AVERAGE, TO THE NORMAL.

BUT THE CHALLENGE OF CLIMATE CHANGE IS THAT WE ARE LOSING THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF NORMAL.

>> Gene: THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH ANNOUNCED THIS WEEK THAT ALL NEW MEXICANS OVER THE AGE OF 16 ARE ELIGIBLE TO HAVE THE COVID-19 VACCINE.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN THERE IS A SHOT AT THE READY, THOUGH.

NMIF SENIOR PRODUCER MATT GRUBS TALKED TO HEALTH SECRETARY, DR. TRACIE COLLINS.

>> Matt: SECRETARY DR. TRACIE COLLINS THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR MAKING A FEW MINUTES TO CHAT WITH US.

I AM CURIOUS ABOUT PHASE 2, WHICH IS SORT OF THE REST OF NEW MEXICO.

IF THE WHITE HOUSE HADN'T RECOMMENDED OR ASKED STATES TO GET THAT, WOULD YOU HAVE RECOMMENDED THAT NEW MEXICO GO THERE YET?

>> Collins: THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION.

ACTUALLY WE WOULD HAVE RECOMMENDED IT.

IT REALLY IS A MATTER OF LOOKING AT MAKING SURE THAT WE HAVE SITES THAT CAN PROVIDE VACCINE THAT THEY DON'T BEGIN TO SLOW DOWN, SO WE WOULD HAVE OPENED IT UP, YES.

THANK YOU.

>> Matt: SURE.

AS I UNDERSTAND PHASE 2, IT IS LESS THAN 100,000 PEOPLE.

WE LOOK AT THE 1.68 MILLION PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE POOL OF PEOPLE WHO CAN BE VACCINATED BY DOH AND THE MEDICAL TEAM.

WHAT IS THE PURPOSE, I GUESS, OF HAVING A PHASE 2 IF IT IS THAT SMALL.

I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE THOUGHT, WOW, THAT IS A BIG CHUNK OF NEW MEXICO BUT IT REALLY ISN'T.

>> Collins: GIVEN THAT NEW MEXICO HAS A LOT OF RESIDENTS WITH CHRONIC CONDITIONS, THE LARGEST GROUP ARE REALLY THOSE WHO ARE 16 AND OLDER WITH CHRONIC CONDITIONS.

SO, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT PHASE 2, IT IS REALLY MAKING SURE EVERYONE CAN GET ACCESS TO THE VACCINE EVEN IF THEY DON'T HAVE A CHRONIC CONDITION.

SO, YES, PHASE 2 IS NOT VERY LARGE BUT WE WANTED TO TRY AND PUSH AS MANY FOLKS WHO ARE AT HIGHER RISK TO VACCINES FIRST BEFORE OPENING UP THAT PHASE.

>> Matt: EXPANDING TO PHASE 2 WITH THE REASONING THAT IN SOME PARTS OF THE STATE, LIKE CLOVIS OR ROSWELL WHERE THEY CAN'T FILL ALL AVAILABLE APPOINTMENTS, WOULD ANOTHER WAY TO DO THAT BE TO RETHINK HOW THE STATE DISTRIBUTES VACCINES AND INSTEAD OF CREATING SORT OF A LONGER LINE, AND I SAY LINES BUT WE KNOW THAT IS THEORETICAL.

INSTEAD OF CREATING THOSE LONGER WAIT TIMES FOR PEOPLE, WHY NOT JUST RETHINK WHERE THE VACCINE IS GOING AND SENDING IT TO PLACES THAT NEED IT AS OPPOSED TO PLACES THAT CAN'T FILL THOSE APPOINTMENTS?

>> Collins: THERE ARE MULTIPLE FACTORS THAT GO INTO HOW WE DISTRIBUTE THE VACCINE IN A ROLL OUT.

WE DID DEFINITELY LOOK AT THOSE HIGHER RISK THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

THEN WE LOOKED AT AREAS WITH HIGH SOCIAL VULNERABILITY AND THEN ALSO LOOKING AT VACCINE PROVIDERS.

SO, THERE ARE MULTIPLE FACTORS AND WE'RE TRYING TO ADDRESS ALL OF THOSE, KEEPING IN MIND THE PRIORITIZATION OF THOSE MOST AT RISK.

SO, AS WE ARE LOOKING AT OPENING UP PHASE 2, IT REALLY IS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE THOSE SITES THAT ARE SOMEWHAT SLOWING DOWN ON APPOINTMENTS, THAT THEY CAN KEEP MOMENTUM GOING.

I APPRECIATE YOUR QUESTION BUT THERE ARE MULTIPLE FACTORS THAT PLAYED INTO HOW WE ROLLED OUT THE VACCINE.

>> Matt: OKAY.

YOU HAVE SAID 50% OF NEW MEXICANS ELIGIBLE HAVE RECEIVED THAT FIRST SHOT.

THE NUMBERS THAT YOU SHARED THIS WEEK INDICATED THAT, HOWEVER, LESS THAN HALF OF THE STATE IS IN THE REGISTRATION SYSTEM.

SO, 829,000 PEOPLE, I THINK, WAS THE NUMBER THAT YOU SHARED THIS WEEK IN TERMS OF NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE GONE ON LINE AND REGISTERED TO GET THAT SHOT.

THAT IS LESS THAN HALF OF STATE, LESS THAN HALF ELIGIBLE PEOPLE, I SHOULD SAY.

CAN YOU HELP ME UNDERSTAND HOW THOSE TWO SETS OF NUMBERS FIT TOGETHER?

>> Collins: WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE REGISTRATION ACT, IT WAS ROLLED OUT ABOUT TWO WEEKS AFTER WE STARTED RECEIVING VACCINES.

AND THERE ARE HEALTHCARE WORKERS WHO HAVE BEEN VACCINATED SO THERE IS A LARGE PROPORTION OF THOSE FOLKS WHO DIDN'T REALLY USE THE APP, AT LEAST FOR THAT FIRST SHOT.

SO, WE HAVE THAT COMPONENT.

WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN VACCINATED WHO ARE NOT HEALTHCARE WORKERS WHO ALSO DIDN'T USE THE APP.

SO THERE IS A SUBSET OF NEW MEXICANS WHO HAVE NOT USED THE APP BUT FORTUNATELY HAVE GOTTEN THEIR VACCINE.

NOT EVERYONE IS USING THE APP.

WE DO ENCOURAGE THAT BUT NOT EVERYONE IS USING IT.

>> Matt: IF NOT EVERYONE IS USING IT, HOW ARE THOSE PEOPLE GETTING VACCINATIONS?

>> Collins: EITHER THROUGH A SITE BEFORE -- YOU KNOW, WE ACTUALLY ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO USE THE VACCINE PORTAL TO REGISTER.

BUT THEY COULD ACTUALLY GO TO MAYBE A PHARMACY OR ANOTHER SITE AND WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS THAT DATA WILL SHOW UP IN A REGISTRATION SITE CALLED NEMSIS.

IT IS REQUIRED THAT WE USE THAT SO ANY VACCINE WHICH IS DISTRIBUTED IN THE STATE NEEDS TO BE REPORTED IN NEMSIS BY A VACCINE PROVIDER.

SO SOMEONE COULD GET THEIR VACCINE AND THEN ULTIMATELY WE SEE THAT DATA IN NEMSIS BUT IT IS NOT IN OUR PORTAL.

>> Matt: THIS IS ALL SORT OF BACK END STUFF.

YOUR INTERACTION WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, ET CETERA.

>> Collins: RIGHT.

>> Matt: OKAY.

THE STATE HAS TRIED TO MAINTAIN A HIGH DEGREE OF CONTROL OVER WHO GETS THIS.

AS YOU SAID, YOU HAVE SORT OF TRIED TO TARGET THOSE WHO NEED IT MOST.

IS THERE A POINT AT WHICH THE STATE NEEDS TO SORT OF RELINQUISH CONTROL?

WE HAVE BEEN ASKED THIS FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS AT LEAST.

MAYBE YOU WOULD KNOW BETTER THAN THAT I, 10 WEEKS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT WITH THE PORTAL.

FEWER THAN HALF THE STATE, HALF THE PEOPLE ELIGIBLE ARE ONLINE.

AND I KNOW THERE IS A GROUP OF NEW MEXICANS WHO ARE GETTING VACCINATED WITHOUT THAT, BUT IS THERE A POINT AT WHICH THE STATE JUST NEEDS TO SAY, OKAY, HAVE AT IT?

>> Collins: ACTUALLY WE ARE DOING THAT NOW BY OPENING UP OPTIONS FOR PEOPLE TO SCHEDULE THEIR OWN APPOINTMENTS AND NOT HAVE TO WAIT FOR AN EVENT CODE.

I THINK FOR US, WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO IS KEEP NEW MEXICO SAFE.

SO WE NEED TO HAVE SOME UNDERSTANDING OF WHERE PEOPLE ARE WITH BEING VACCINATED SO WE CAN'T COMPLETELY BACK OFF.

WE REALLY NEED TO KEEP OUR EYE ON THE DATA AND MAKING SURE THAT FOLKS WHO ARE MOST AT RISK ARE GETTING VACCINATED AND THEN THE ENTIRE STATE IS GETTING VACCINATED SO THAT WE CAN REACH THAT POINT WHERE WE CAN STOP THE VIRUS FROM REPLICATING AND FROM MUTATING.

SO I DON'T THINK WE CAN BACK OFF COMPLETELY, IF I AM UNDERSTANDING YOUR QUESTION CLEARLY.

I THINK WHAT WE ARE DOING IS TRYING TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO GET TO VACCINE APPOINTMENTS.

>> Matt: IS THERE -- I GUESS, IF YOU'RE ABLE TO TRACK WHO IS GETTING VACCINATED THROUGH THIS BACK-END SYSTEM WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT CALLED NEMSIS, IS THERE NECESSARILY A NEED FOR THE FRONT-END SYSTEM THAT RESTRICTS WHO CAN GET IT AND WHEN?

>> Collins: AT THIS POINT WE ARE NOT RESTRICTING IT, PER SE.

WE ARE TRYING TO MATCH THE DEMAND WITH WHAT IS AVAILABLE AS A SUPPLY.

SO ON THE FRONT END WE ARE TRYING TO HELP VACCINE PROVIDERS BY PUSHING PEOPLE TO APPOINTMENTS, HELPING THEM UNDERSTAND WHO WANTS AN APPOINTMENT.

SO THAT FRONT-END PIECE IS STILL IMPORTANT.

>> Matt: OKAY.

HERD IMMUNITY, SOMETHING THAT YOU HAVE RECENTLY BEGUN TALKING ABOUT.

I KNOW THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY HASN'T REACHED CONSENSUS.

I AM HEARING AROUND 80%, MAYBE 5 LESS OR 5 MORE.

GIVEN SORT OF THE DIFFICULTY THAT THE STATE HAS HAD IN REGISTERING PEOPLE INTO THAT SYSTEM, AND GIVEN SORT OF THE POLLING THAT WE HAVE SEEN THAT SAYS MAYBE 1/3 OF AMERICANS HAVE THIS CONCERN OR QUESTIONS ABOUT THE VACCINE, DO YOU THINK HERD IMMUNITY IS ACHIEVABLE IN THIS STATE?

>> Collins: IT IS AN EXCELLENT QUESTION AND PLEASE KEEP IN MIND WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT HERD IMMUNITY, THAT IS WHERE YOU REACH A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION THAT YOU CAN HELP, YOU KNOW, EITHER WITH THE VACCINE, YOU KNOW, WITH GETTING THEIR IMMUNE SYSTEM SUCH THAT THE VIRUS CANNOT REPLICATE ANYMORE.

WE ARE STILL LEARNING ABOUT THIS VIRUS.

WE MAY NOT ACTUALLY REACH THAT HERD IMMUNITY.

IT MAY BECOME SOMETHING LIKE INFLUENZA WHERE EACH YEAR WE GET A BOOSTER DOSE OR NEW VACCINE JUST BECAUSE THERE IS SUCH A CHANGE IN THE SEQUENCING OF THE GIVEN VACCINE OR WHAT WE CURRENTLY ARE TREATING.

SO, WHAT I WANT TO MAKE CLEAR, I AM NOT BEING VERY CLEAR RIGHT NOW, IS THAT, FIRST OF ALL, WE DON'T KNOW IF HERD IMMUNITY IS POSSIBLE WITH COVID-19.

IT MAY BE THAT IT IS NOT.

IF IT WERE, WE ARE LOOKING AT NUMBERS AROUND 70% OR SO BUT ALSO KEEP IN MIND WE HAVE NOT OPENED UP VACCINE TO CHILDREN, BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE DATA TO SAY THAT IT IS OKAY TO DO THIS.

WE HAVE SOME DATA FROM PFIZER ON THOSE WHO ARE ADOLESCENTS, 12 TO 15, THAT IT IS ACTUALLY LOOKING LIKE IT IS EFFICACIOUS AND SAFE TO USE IN THAT GROUP BUT MORE TRIALS ARE BEING DONE STARTING NOW WITH CHILDREN WHO ARE YOUNGER INTO THE SUMMER.

PFIZER IS DOING WORK NOW AND MODERNA WILL START IN THE SUMMER.

SO, ONE OF THE CHALLENGES THAT YOU SEE NATIONALLY WITH THIS IDEA OF HERD IMMUNITY, WE DON'T KNOW THAT WE CAN REACH HERD IMMUNITY WITH COVID-19 BUT THE MORE PEOPLE WE GET VACCINATED CURRENTLY THE MORE LIKELY WE ARE TO STOP THE REPLICATION WHICH IS A GOOD THING.

THAT IS MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

>> Matt: NEW MEXICO, AT LEAST AS HIGHLIGHTED IN CDC NUMBERS IN THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL, RANKS WELL IN TERMS OF GETTING SHOTS OR NEEDLES IN ARMS OF THE POPULATION OVERALL, BUT THERE IS SOME VULNERABLE COMMUNITIES THAT ARE BEING MISSED AND THE STATE RANKS FURTHER DOWN THE LIST, 37TH I BELIEVE, WAS THE NUMBER THAT THE JOURNAL REPORTED AS OPPOSED TO FIRST IN PERCENTAGE OF VACCINES IN ARMS.

I KNOW THAT IS SOMETHING THAT YOU ARE LOOKING AT.

SOMETHING THAT YOU ARE NOT INSENSITIVE TO.

CAN YOU HELP ME UNDERSTAND HOW THAT CAME TO BE AND WHAT IS BEING DONE?

>> Collins: SOCIAL VULNERABILITY INDEX INCLUDES 15 FACTORS; HOUSING, WHO IS LIVING IN THE HOUSE, HOW VULNERABLE THEY ARE.

OTHERS SORT OF DETERMINATES OF HEALTH LIKE INCOME, EDUCATION, ALL OF THOSE GO INTO THIS MEASUREMENT CALLED SOCIAL VULNERABILITY INDEX.

AND THAT INDEX, THE HIGHER THE NUMBER THE MORE VULNERABLE YOU ARE.

SO, AS A STATE, AS YOU POINTED OUT, WE HAVE DONE REALLY WELL WITH GETTING SHOTS IN ARMS JUST IN GENERAL.

WHEN WE LOOK AT HOW WE ARE DOING WITH THOSE SOCIALLY VULNERABLE GROUPS, THAT IS WHERE YOU SEE A DISCREPANCY BUT PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT THE DATA LOOKING AT THAT HAS NOT ADJUSTED FOR HOW WE AS A STATE ARE REALLY HIGH ON OUR SOCIAL VULNERABILITY COMPARED TO OTHER STATES IN THE UNION.

SO, WHEN WE CONSIDER THAT AND IF YOU WERE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THAT DATA AND ADJUST FOR HOW VULNERABLE, I AM GOING TO SAY, NEW MEXICO IS AS A STATE, WE ARE ACTUALLY DOING BETTER.

SO THAT RANKING, THAT 37TH, IS A VERY CRUDE AND NOT WELL ADJUSTED ESTIMATE OF HOW NEW MEXICO IS DOING.

IF WE BEGIN TO GO BACK AND LOOK AND SAY NEW MEXICO COMPARED TO MAYBE COLORADO, I AM JUST THROWING THAT OUT AS AN EXAMPLE, WE ARE ACTUALLY PROBABLY DOING BETTER THAN PEOPLE REALIZE EVEN WITH THE SOCIAL VULNERABILITY, JUST THAT WE ARE A SICK STATE.

THERE IS A LOT OF POVERTY A LOT OF PEOPLE WITH CHRONIC CONDITIONS, SO, OVERALL WE RANK HIGH AS A STATE COMPARED TO OTHERS IN THE COUNTRY FOR VULNERABILITY.

>> Matt: DR. TRACIE COLLINS, WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Collins: THANK YOU.

>> Gene: WHAT DOES THE LINE PANEL MAKE OF THE STATE'S PLAN AND EXECUTION WHEN IT COMES TO VACCINE DISTRIBUTION?

LET'S GET INTO IT.

SOPHIE, WHAT IS POINT OF HAVING A PHASE 2 IF FEWER THAN 100,000 PEOPLE ARE IN THAT GROUP?

>> Sophie: THE VALUE OF HAVING A PHASE 2 AND VACCINATING 100,000 PEOPLE IS THAT IS THE NEXT GROUP THAT NEEDS TO GET THE SHOT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, AS OPPORTUNITIES HAVE OPENED UP FOR THE STATE OVERALL, SOMETHING REALLY INTERESTING HAS HAPPENED.

THERE HAS BEEN SOME NOTICE OF APPARENTLY THE FACT THAT STATES LIKE NEW MEXICO THAT HAVE BEEN MORE CAUTIOUS, MORE RESTRICTIVE IN TERMS OF WHO THEY ALLOW TO GET SHOTS WHEN, SEEM TO BE MOVING AHEAD FASTER AND MORE EFFECTIVELY THAN STATES THAT JUST KIND OF THREW THE DOORS OPEN AT THE BEGINNING.

OF COURSE, NEW MEXICO'S NUMBERS, WHICH IF NOT THE BEST IN THE COUNTRY OR SOME OF THE BEST IN THE COUNTRY, ARE REALLY HELPED BY THE WORK THAT HAS HAPPENED ON THE NAVAJO NATION AND WITH OTHER TRIBES IN TERMS OF GETTING TRIBAL MEMBERS AND OTHER COMMUNITY MEMBERS THEIR VACCINES QUICKLY AND EFFECTIVELY AND EFFICIENTLY.

BUT, NEW MEXICO IS IN GOOD SHAPE IN TERMS OF VACCINATION.

>> Gene: DAN, A LOT OF THIS COMES DOWN TO -- HOW SHOULD I PUT THIS?

MESSAGING.

THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE HAS BEEN MESSAGING HARD ABOUT THE GOOD THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON.

DOES IT REALLY MEAN A WHOLE LOT TO THE PERSON ON THE STREET IF THEY ARE 70 AND CAN'T QUITE GET A SHOT OR THEY GET AN APPOINTMENT AND IT IS OUT IN GRANTS OR SOMETHING?

>> Dan: SOME OF THIS IS OUT OF THEIR CONTROL OBVIOUSLY.

YOU GOT PRIVATE VENDORS DOING THIS.

MY WIFE GOT HER FIRST SHOT TWO, THREE WEEKS AGO.

I GOT NOTIFIED MONDAY THAT I AM GOING TO GET MY FIRST SHOT.

MY WIFE IS A FEW YEARS YOUNGER THAN I AM.

NOT MUCH.

DON'T ANYBODY START WRITING LETTERS, IS IN FAR BETTER SHAPE THAN I AM.

LET'S JUST SAY THAT I AM A LITTLE BIT OF A ROUND MOUND TO REBOUND.

GOT PRE-DIABETES AND HERE I AM.

SO I THINK THERE HAS BEEN SOME CONSTERNATION WITH PEOPLE IN GROUPS SAYING, I GOT A SHOT AND HOW DID THAT PERSON NOT GET A SHOT OR HOW DID THIS PERSON NOT GET A SHOT?

THE OTHER THING THAT DOESN'T HELP FOR NEW MEXICO IS THE CONSTANT DRUM BEAT FROM PLACES LIKE TEXAS WHERE TEXAS HAS BEEN JUST GETTING IN LINE TO GET A SHOT.

THEY GOT MORE SHOTS THAN THEY GOT PEOPLE.

I GOT LOTS OF FRIENDS THAT HAVE DRIVEN DOWN TO AMARILLO AND WENT TO THE PLACE IN AMARILLO, GOT THEIR SHOT, CAME HOME, TWO WEEKS LATER, WENT DOWN GOT THE SECOND SHOT, CAME HOME, NO QUESTIONS ASKED AND NO PROBLEMS.

YOU SEE THAT STUFF ON THE NEWS, YOU HEAR THAT STUFF TRAVEL OUT THERE IT MAKES PEOPLE GET FLUSTERED BUT, LOOK, I THINK WE ARE DOING THE BEST WE CAN WITH WHAT WE HAVE I AM AS ARDENT A CRITIC OF THE GOVERNOR AND DON'T MISS AN OPPORTUNITY TO GO AFTER DEMOCRATS WHENEVER I HAVE ONE, BUT, YOU KNOW, THINK WE ALL GOT TO PUMP OUR BRAKES AND REMEMBER THIS PANDEMIC WAS NOT A PLAYBOOK.

YOU CAN'T SAY THIS IS WHAT WE DID 10 YEARS AGO.

THE NEXT PERSON THAT DEALS WITH SOMETHING LIKE THIS, THERE IS A LOT LESS FORGIVENESS FROM THE PUBLIC BUT DEALING WITH WHAT PEOPLE HAD, THE INFORMATION THAT WAS OUT THERE, I THINK THEY ARE DOING THE BEST JOB THEY COULD DO AND EVERYBODY NEEDS TO RELAX.

I THINK WHAT IS GOING TO BE INTERESTING CONVERSATION ABOUT THE SHOTS IN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS IS HOW MANY PEOPLE START SAYING, I AM NOT GETTING ONE, PERIOD.

I AM NOT GETTING IT.

I AM STARTING TO HEAR THAT AND YOU HEAR FROM THE FED'S THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE LIMIT ABILITY TO GET ON AIRPLANES, POTENTIALLY GOING TO BIG PUBLIC EVENTS.

>> Gene: I DO WANT TO GET TO THOSE LAST TWO POINTS.

I GOT A COUPLE MORE BEFORE THERE.

JULIE ANN, THERE IS A QUESTION OF WHETHER THE STATE WOULD HAVE OPENED VACCINATIONS TO EVERYONE IF THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HADN'T DEMANDED IT.

WHAT DO WE GAIN BY TOWING THE LINE?

IT DOESN'T WIN US MORE SHOTS.

AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE?

>> Julie Ann: I DON'T THINK THAT GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM WAS GOING TO BUCK THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IN TERMS OF LIKE THEIR CHANGING PRIORITIES FOR WHO GETS THE VACCINE.

I THINK THAT THE STATE'S PLAN IS NOT -- WASN'T A BIG SHIFT AWAY FROM THE FEDERAL DEADLINES THAT STARTED TO COME OUT, YOU KNOW, ONCE THE FEDS GOT INTO ACTION.

I THINK THAT THE -- I HAVE TO SAY THAT I AGREE WITH A LOT OF THINGS THAT DAN JUST SAID, WHICH, IT PAINS ME TO SAY, BUT I THINK NEW MEXICANS IN GENERAL HAVE HAD A REALLY GOOD, YOU KNOW, SHAKE ON THIS.

AND THAT THERE HAVE BEEN PEOPLE WHO ARE VULNERABLE AND PEOPLE WHO NEEDED EXTRA EFFORTS TO GET IT HAVE RECEIVED THAT EXTRA EFFORT.

I THINK IT IS GREAT TO SEE NEW MEXICO AT THE TOP OF THE LIST.

WE ALL LOVE THAT.

>> Gene: SOPHIE, YOU KNOW, THE GOVERNOR IS CLAIMING 50% OF US HAVE BEEN VACCINATED.

THERE HAVE BEEN STORIES IN THE JOURNAL THAT SAYS, LOOK FOR VULNERABLE COMMUNITIES AND THERE WAS PARTICULARLY INTERESTING STORY IN THE JOURNAL, IT HAS LAGGED WHEN IT COMES TO MOST VULNERABLE POPULATIONS DESPITE SETTING THE STATE UP TO GET AT THOSE POPULATIONS FIRST.

SOMETHING HASN'T QUITE HAPPENED BUT AT THE SAME TIME THAT PERCEPTION IS OUT THERE THAT WE ARE DOING THIS, YOU KNOW, BETTER THAN EVERYBODY OUT THERE.

>> Sophie: THERE IS SORT OF TWO CHANNELS HERE, RIGHT?

THERE IS THE OVERALL PUSH TOWARD HERD IMMUNITY, AND TO CLARIFY, GENE, THAT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT 50%, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT 50% OF ADULTS.

CHILDREN WHO ARE, YOU KNOW, A VERY SIGNIFICANT PART OF THE POPULATION HAVE NOT RECEIVED VACCINES YET.

I BELIEVE IT IS OVER 16 IS WHERE YOU CAN START TO GET VACCINATION.

SO, CERTAINLY WE WANT TO SEE THAT PUSH TOWARD HERD IMMUNITY.

THERE HAS BEEN SOME COVERAGE AND ANALYSIS TO SUGGEST WE MAY BE CLOSER THAN WE THINK WE ARE RIGHT NOW.

THIS IS THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO DID GET THE DISEASE BEFORE VACCINATION AND SO THERE IS THAT ELEMENT.

BUT I THINK YOU BRING UP ANOTHER IMPORTANT ELEMENT, WHEN YOU LOOK AT SUBCATEGORIES WHO HAS BEEN VACCINATED, WE SEE THAT AFRICAN AMERICANS, BASICALLY LATINOS, GETTING VACCINATED AND HAVE BEEN VACCINATED AT A MUCH LOWER RATE AND THAT IS A REAL CAUSE FOR CONCERN.

THERE WERE SOME STATES, I WILL REMIND YOU, THAT ATTEMPTED TO FOCUS ON ISSUES OF RACIAL FAIRNESS AND EQUITY IN TERMS OF THEIR VACCINE DISTRIBUTION AND THAT DID NOT GO OVER WELL IN THOSE STATES.

NEW MEXICO REALLY FOCUSED ON DIFFERENT CATEGORIES OF PEOPLE BUT NOW AS WE LOOK AT THOSE NUMBERS WE CAN SEE THAT WHAT YOU MIGHT HAVE HOPED TARGETING, YOU KNOW, FOCUSING ON PEOPLE WITH PARTICULAR HEALTH CONDITIONS, THINGS LIKE THAT, DIDN'T GET THE STATE AS FAR AS IT WOULD HOPE IT WOULD GET IN TERMS OF AFRICAN AMERICAN, HISPANIC AND TO A CERTAIN EXTENT NATIVE AMERICAN COMMUNITIES.

THAT IS A DIFFICULT CHALLENGE THAT FOLKS IN THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES ARE TELLING US THEY ARE WORKING ON THOSE THINGS.

I THINK AS A COMMUNITY WE HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO HOLD THEIR FEET TO THE FIRE ON THAT.

>> Gene: GOOD POINT.

AS I AM READING IT, ABOUT 26.3% OF AFRICAN AMERICANS HAVE RECEIVED FIRST DOSE HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

HISPANICS AND LATINOS WHO MAKE UP 1/3 OF EVERYONE HERE, THAT IS 32.1%.

THAT WAS AT THE TIME OF THAT STORY COMING OUT A COUPLE DAYS AGO.

DANIEL, IS HERD IMMUNITY A REALISTIC GOAL?

YOU MENTIONED THIS A SECOND AGO.

I WANT TO COME BACK TO YOU, THAT SO MANY FOLKS ARE SAYING THEY ARE NOT GOING TO DO THIS, IS HERD IMMUNITY A REASONABLE GOAL AT THIS POINT?

>> Dan: THE PROBLEM RIGHT NOW THAT I THINK WITH THE COVID-19 STUFF IS THERE IS SO MUCH MISINFORMATION OUT THERE AND DISINFORMATION, IT IS HARD TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS THE RIGHT INFORMATION.

THERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT THINK IT IS, THERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK, HEY, LISTEN WE ARE GOING TO GO AND BATTLE THROUGH THIS LIKE WE DO EVERYTHING ELSE OUT THERE.

OTHER PEOPLE WHO SAY, TAKE THIS SERIOUS, THIS COULD KILL YOU.

I HAD COVID OVER CHRISTMAS.

DIDN'T AFFECT ME AT ALL.

I HAD A SLIGHT FEVER FOR A DAY AND WAS FINE.

I HAVE A LADY THAT WORKS FOR ME WHO LEAVES THE END OF THIS WEEK TO GO TO SEATTLE.

HER 46 YEAR OLD SISTER CONTRACTED COVID-19 IN ARIZONA AND THROUGH ALL THE STUFF THEY HAD TO DO, HER THROAT IS NOW TOO SMALL BECAUSE OF SCAR TISSUE FROM TRACHS.

THEY HAVE TO SEND HER TO SEATTLE TO EITHER GIVE HER A PERMANENT TRACH OR DO SURGERY TO OPEN UP THE THROAT SO SHE CAN BREATH.

THERE IS SO MANY STORIES OUT THERE THAT I THINK SO MANY PEOPLE ARE JUST THINKING, YOU KNOW, I'LL GET, WHAT ABOUT IT?

MY CONCERN IS SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT I HEAR IN MY CIRCLES TELL ME DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT, I'LL GET IT, ARE THE LAST PEOPLE YOU WANT TO GET COVID-19, RIGHT?

IT IS ONE THING FOR MY SON, THE ATHLETE TO TELL YOU, I'LL GET COVID AND LET ME SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

SOMETIMES IT IS ANOTHER THING WHEN YOUR BUDDY IS 68 YEARS OLD, 375 POUNDS AND WHEEZES WHEN HE WALKS, AND HE TELLS YOU I GOING TO GET THE HERD IMMUNITY.

THERE ARE FOLKS THAT SAY IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

AROUND END OF APRIL OR MAY, THERE IS THOUGHTS -- YOU'RE HEARING REPORTS THAT SOMETIME MAYBE AROUND THE END OF MAY THAT WE MAY REACH THAT TIPPING POINT WITH HERD IMMUNITY IN THE U.S.

I DON'T THINK IT IS WORTH RISKING.

>> Gene: LET ME BRING IN ANOTHER THING.

DANIEL MENTIONED THIS IDEA OF VACCINATION PASSPORT OR APP.

LET BUSINESSES KNOW, OTHER PLACES KNOW PEOPLE HAVE HAD THEIR SHOTS, THAT KIND OF THING.

THE STATE HAS BEEN MUM ON THIS SO FAR.

ANY PREDICTIONS WHERE THE GOVERNOR MIGHT BE ON THIS?

IT IS A TOUGH ONE TO SELL TO SOME FOLKS.

>> Sophie: IT IS.

I'LL SAY ANECDOTALLY THERE ARE A HANDFUL OF PEOPLE WHO I HAVE TALKED TO WHO ARE NOT SO SURE ABOUT TAKING VACCINE AND THEN THEY SAY, BUT IF MY FATHER'S NURSING HOME REQUIRES ME TO GET IT IN ORDER TO SEE HIM, I AM GOING TO DO IT.

IF IT IS NECESSARY IN ORDER TO TRAVEL, I AM GOING TO DO IT.

SO, IT SEEMS TO ME THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE ON THE FENCE AND FOR WHOM THOSE INCENTIVES, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL THEM, MIGHT BE EFFECTIVE.

BUT BEYOND THAT WHAT WE ARE SEEING AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL, WHAT WE ARE HEARING FROM THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS THAT IT IS PRIVATE INDUSTRY THAT IS DRIVING A FAIR AMOUNT OF THE INTEREST IN THIS SORT OF PROGRAM.

AIRLINES THINKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW CAN WE BRING PEOPLE BACK ONTO PLANES, HAVE THEM FEEL SAFE.

CRUISE SHIPS, OTHER BUSINESSES.

>> Gene: GOT TO STEP IN, JUST SHORT ON TIME.

WE GOT TO INCLUDE SANTA FE, OF COURSE, FOR JULIE ANN AND HER FOLKS OUT THERE TOO.

A LOT OF TRAVELERS FROM TEXAS.

THIS COULD BE A BIG DEAL.

OUT OF TIME WITH THIS GROUP AND WE TURN TO OUR LAND AND ENVIRONMENT REPORTER LAURA PASKUS.

>> Laura: THIS MONTH ON OUR LAND WE TALK ABOUT THE RIO GRANDE AND WHAT IS HAPPENING THIS YEAR BUT INTO THE FUTURE AS SCIENTISTS LEARN MORE AND MORE ABOUT WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THE RIVER AND RESERVOIRS AND REST OF US WHO RELY UPON THIS WATER AS TEMPERATURES KEEP RISING AND WE KEEP HAVING DIFFICULT CONDITIONS.

THE IMPACTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE DON'T JUST REFLECT ONE DRY YEAR OR ONE BAD SEASON.

THEY INTENSIFY ONE ANOTHER.

THEY BUILD ON ONE ANOTHER.

WE SEE THIS IN OUR FORESTS, OUR RIVERS, ALL ACROSS THE STATE.

ONE PLACE WHERE IT IS PLAIN TO SEE HOW WARMING PLAYS OUT IN OUR ARID STATE IS ELEPHANT BUTTE RESERVOIR IN SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO.

>> Esslinger: RIGHT NOW, I AM SAD TO SAY THAT WE ARE AT 9% CAPACITY.

THIS RESERVOIR CAN HOLD OVER TWO MILLION, TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND ACRE FEET OF WATER AND IN MY TENURE WITH THE DISTRICT I HAVE SEEN IT SPILL OVER THE DAM.

AND I HAVE SEEN IT LOWER THAN IT IS RIGHT NOW.

SO, IT IS AN UNFORTUNATE THING BUT WHEN YOU'RE IN THE WEST, DROUGHTS HAPPEN AND WE ARE IN A MEGA DROUGHT RIGHT NOW.

>> Laura: GARY ESSLINGER STARTED WORKING IN 1978 FOR THE ELEPHANT BUTTE IRRIGATION DISTRICT.

TODAY HE IS TREASURER AND MANAGER RESPONSIBLE FOR BRINGING WATER TO MORE THAN 90,000 ACRES OF PECANS, ALFALFA, CHILE, ONIONS AND EVEN COTTON THROUGH HATCH AND DOWN TO THE MESILLA VALLEY.

LAST FALL, THE DISTRICT TOLD FARMERS NOT TO EXPECT WATER FROM THIS RESERVOIR ON THE RIO GRANDE.

THEY ARE ANTICIPATING THIS COULD BE THE WORST SEASON IN MEMORY.

>> Esslinger: MOST OF THE FARMERS IN THIS VALLEY ARE PRETTY FAMILIAR WITH WHERE WE ARE LOCATED RIGHT NOW AND THEY COME UP HERE AND SEE THE SAME THING.

IT IS NOT ANY NEWS TO THEM THAT WE ARE SHORT OF SURFACE WATER.

WE HAVE BEEN SHORT FOR, YOU KNOW, GOING ON 20 SOME ODD YEARS.

>> Laura: TO SURVIVE, FARMERS HAVE TO ADAPT.

THEY PUMP GROUNDWATER, OR THEY FALLOW FIELDS TO USE WHAT WATER IS AVAILABLE FOR HIGHER VALUE CROPS.

>> Esslinger: I HATE TO SEE I GOT AWAY.

I HATE TO SEE AGRICULTURE DIMINISHED HERE ESPECIALLY BECAUSE IT IS A GREAT PART OF THIS VALLEY FROM HERE ALL THE WAY DOWN TO EL PASO.

IT FLOURISHES AND YOU THINK ABOUT IT AND IT HAS GOT A GREAT ECONOMIC BENEFIT TO THIS ENTIRE STATE.

>> Laura: LIKE MANY DAMS ACROSS THE WEST ELEPHANT BUTTE WAS BUILT BY THE U.S. BUREAU OF RECLAMATION.

DAGMAR LLEWELLYN IS A HYDROLOGIST WITH THE AGENCY.

>> Llewellyn: RECLAMATION IS WHAT THEY DID FROM THE BEGINNING AND IS CHARGED WITH TAKING WHAT CAN BE AN INHOSPITABLE LANDSCAPE FOR HUMAN ACTIVITIES AND FINDING WAYS TO MAKE IT SO THAT WE CAN THRIVE HERE.

THAT IS WHAT WE DID IN THE PAST BY BUILDING DAMS.

THAT WAS THE ACTION THAT WE THOUGHT WAS NEEDED AT THAT TIME.

>> Laura: THE AGENCY HAS EVOLVED THOUGH.

>> Llewellyn: I BELIEVE THAT THE PROGRAMS THAT I WORK ON UNDER THE SECURE WATER ACT ARE WHAT ENABLE US TO DO THE SAME THING NOW.

WHICH IS TO TRY TO FIND WAYS TO TAKE WHAT IS BECOMING MORE AND MORE CHALLENGING AND INHOSPITABLE LANDSCAPE FOR A LOT OF HUMAN ACTIVITIES AND FIND WAYS TO MAKE THEM POSSIBLE AND ALLOW US TO CONTINUE TO THRIVE HERE.

>> Laura: OUR LIVES HAVE CERTAINLY CHANGED SINCE THE EARLY 20TH CENTURY WHEN ELEPHANT BUTTE DAM WAS BUILT AND AS WE PUMPED MORE GREEN HOUSE GASES INTO THE ATMOSPHERE, WE HAVE WARMED THE CLIMATE.

>> Llewellyn: THERE IS NO NEW NORMAL.

WE TALK ABOUT WHAT IS THE FLOW OF THIS RIVER RELATIVE TO THE AVERAGE, TO THE NORMAL.

BUT THE CHALLENGE OF CLIMATE CHANGE IS THAT WE ARE LOSING THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF NORMAL.

>> Laura: FOR CENTURIES FARMERS RELIED ON THE RIO GRANDE AS A SNOW MELT DRIVEN SYSTEM.

>> Llewellyn: THE WATER YOU SEE HERE PREDOMINANTLY ORIGINATES IN THE MOUNTAINS OF COLORADO AND NORTHERN NEW MEXICO.

AND IT BUILDS UP OVER THE COURSE OF THE WINTER AS IT SNOWS INTO A SNOW PACK AND THAT IS THE PRIMARY PLACE WHERE WE ACTUALLY STORE OUR WATER.

>> Laura: SOME MOISTURE WOULD SEEP INTO THE FOREST AND SOME WOULD MELT THROUGH THE SPRING WHEN FARMERS NEED IT TO SUSTAIN CROPS UNTIL THE SUMMER MONSOONS, BUT AS ARID PLACES LIKE NEW MEXICO WARM, THEY ALSO DRY.

>> Llewellyn: THINK ABOUT HOW YOUR HAIR DRYER WORKS.

YOU HEAT THINGS UP SO THAT YOU GET THE MOISTURE TO GO INTO THE AIR BUT IT COMES OUT OF OUR SOILS, IT COMES OUT OF OUR TREE ROOTS AND EVERYTHING THAT USES WATER, OUR RIPARIAN SYSTEMS, OUR CROPS, EVERYTHING ALL THE WAY DOWN NEEDS MORE WATER BECAUSE IT IS WARMER, BECAUSE OF THE WAY YOUR HAIR DRYER WORKS.

>> Laura: ESSLINGER IS AN OPTIMIST AND IN HIS TIME HERE HE HAS SEEN DROUGHTS AND FLOODS AND HE HAS FAITH.

>> Esslinger: WE HAVE TO TRUST MANKIND AND TRUST OUR FUTURE TO THOSE WHO WILL COME IN HERE AND SEE NEW INNOVATIVE WAYS TO HELP DEAL WITH THE SITUATION TO WHETHER IT IS A DROUGHT SITUATION OR FLOOD.

I MEAN, MY GOD, IF WE HAD A FLOOD EVENT HERE, AND I HAVE SEEN THOSE, I HAVE SEEN HATCH UNDER WATER, IT IS TERRIBLE.

IT IS AS TERRIBLE A SIGHT TO SEE AS THIS EMPTY LAKE.

>> Laura: ELEPHANT BUTTE LOW LEVELS DON'T JUST CAUSE PROBLEMS FOR FARMERS HERE.

UNDER THE RIO GRANDE COMPACT, UNTIL THOSE LEVELS COME UP AND NEW MEXICO CAN SEND THE WATER IT OWES TO DOWNSTREAM USERS, WE CAN'T STORE WATER IN SOME UPSTREAM RESERVOIRS EITHER AND THESE PROBLEMS WON'T DISAPPEAR ANY TIME SOON.

>> Llewellyn: WE HAVE A RIVER THAT IS HIGHLY VARIABLE IN ITS FLOWS BOTH WITHIN THE YEAR AND BETWEEN YEARS AND IT IS JUST GOING TO GET MORE VARIABLE.

SO EVERYTHING -- THEY CALL IT INTENSIFICATION OF THE WATER CYCLE.

EVERYTHING IS JUST HAPPENING MORE SO.

>> Laura: CLIMATE OF THE PAST THAT WE ALL CAME TO RELY UPON NO LONGER OFFERS A MAP FOR THE FUTURE.

AND THE BETTER WE UNDERSTAND THAT, ACCEPT THAT, THE BETTER WE CAN KNOW HOW TO FACE THAT FUTURE.

FOR OUR LAND AND NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, I AM LAURA PASKUS.

>> Gene: WE REMAIN FOCUSED ON THE RIVER THIS WEEK AS A NEW EXHIBIT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO ART MUSEUM LOOKS AT THE CHANGING RIO GRANDE.

TAKING THE CONCEPT OF DEEP TIME, CREATORS LOOK AT THE RIVER'S LONG HISTORY.

THEY ALSO TOOK DECADES WORTH OF US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY FLOW DATA FROM THE HEADWATERS TO THE DELTA AND SET IT TO SONG.

THE PROJECT IS CALLED THEIR MUST BE OTHER NAMES FOR THE RIVER.

AND CORRESPONDENT LAURA PASKUS SPOKE WITH ONE OF THE EXHIBITS THREE CREATORS, LONG TIME REPORTER, MARISA DEMARCO.

>> Laura: MARISA DEMARCO, YOU'RE A LONG TIME REPORTER, MUSICIAN AND ARTIST.

HOW DID YOU AND YOUR FELLOW COLLABORATORS TELL THE STORY OF THE RIO GRANDE THROUGH SONG?

>> Demarco: YEAH, SO WE WERE TOGETHER IN A CLASS THAT WAS EVALUATING A CONCEPT CALLED DEEP TIME.

IT WAS NINA ELDERS CLASS AND WE WERE THINKING ABOUT THE AGE OF THE RIVER, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, 5 MILLION YEARS OLD FROM A VERY BEGINNING, MAYBE LIKE A MILLION YEARS OLD FROM THE SHAPE THAT WE KNOW IT TODAY, THE RIVER THAT WE CALL THE RIO GRANDE.

AND WE -- I WAS THINKING MAYBE WE COULD USE PUBLIC FLOW DATA AND TURN IT INTO A GRAPHIC SCORE FOR SINGERS.

SO, WE DID THAT WORK AND THERE WAS A LOT OF DATA CRUNCHING.

MY COLLABORATOR, JESSICA, IT TURNED INTO A BIG MATH PROJECT FOR A COUPLE DAYS, AS THESE THINGS DO.

AND MCLAUGHLIN ALSO WORKED ON THE SHEETS HELPED TURN THAT DATA INTO A SCORE FOR SINGERS.

WHAT WE DO IS, WHEN IT IS PERFORMED LIVE, WE HAVE THOSE SIX SINGERS, EACH OF WHOM IS REPRESENTING A DATA POINT, A PLACE ALONG THE RIVER WHERE DATA WERE COLLECTED.

AND WE HAVE THEM STAND IN THE SHAPE OF THE RIVER AND YOU CAN KIND OF HEAR AS THEY ARE SINGING, THE FLOWS CHANGING FROM YEAR TO YEAR.

SOMETIMES IT CAN FEEL LIKE THE WATER IS COMING DOWN THE RIVER FROM PLACE TO PLACE, FROM THE HEADWATERS ALL THE WAY TO THE GULF.

>> Laura: HOW DID THE PERFORMANCE OF THE RIVER STORY AND SONG, HOW DID IT AFFECT YOU AND YOUR COLLABORATORS, SINGERS AND THE AUDIENCES AS WELL?

>> Demarco: WE HEARD SO MUCH FEEDBACK FROM PEOPLE THAT THEY HAD A REALLY POWERFUL EMOTIONAL RESPONSE BECAUSE AS THE SINGERS ARE SINGING THIS FLOW DATA, WE HAVE THE YEARS KIND OF PASSING ALONG ON A PROJECTOR SO YOU KNOW WHERE THEY ARE IN TELLING THE STORY.

THERE WAS SOME DEBATE INITIALLY ABOUT WHETHER WE SHOULD FULLY DO THAT OR NOT TO ORIENT THE AUDIENCE OR RATHER THEM JUST EXPERIENCE THE PIECE AS A WHOLE BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE WERE LOOKING AT THOSE YEARS AND THINKING ABOUT, OH, THIS IS THE YEAR MY CHILD WAS BORN.

THIS IS THE YEAR I MOVED HERE.

THIS IS THE YEAR MY GRANDFATHER PASSED.

SO, THOSE YEARS AS THEY COME THROUGH, YOU'RE HAVING THESE PLACE MEMORIES TOO, A TIME MEMORY AND A PLACE MEMORY OF MAYBE WHAT YOU'RE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE RIVER WAS LIKE AT THAT POINT, RIGHT?

A LOT OF US HAVE GONE TO THE RIVER FOR NOT JUST EXERCISE AND BEAUTY AND ENJOYMENT BUT FOR REFLECTION, FOR GRIEF, FOR OTHER IMPORTANT BIG MOMENTS IN OUR LIVES AND SO AS YOU'RE LOOKING AT THOSE YEARS, YOU CAN KIND OF REMEMBER THESE TIMES AND SO PEOPLE HAD A REALLY EMOTIONAL RESPONSE.

THE SINGERS AND THE ARTISTS, MYSELF, JESSICA AND DILLON, I THINK WE ALL FEEL THAT PIECE AS A TRIBUTE TO THE RIVER.

SO WE TOOK THE SINGERS, WE PERFORMED IT INDOORS AT NATIONAL HISPANIC CULTURAL CENTER AND ALSO AT UNM ART MUSEUM, BUT WE DID ALSO TAKE THE SINGERS DOWN TO THE RIVER TO DO AN ACAPELLA VERSION OF THE PIECE WITH THEIR FEET IN THE WATER.

AND I THINK THAT PERFORMANCE, WHICH WAS JUST PRIVATE, THERE WAS NO AUDIENCE, JUST US, BUT I THINK THAT FELT REALLY PROFOUND TO ALL OF US, LIKE WE HOPE THAT WHAT WE ARE EXPRESSING IS CONNECTION TO THE RIVER, BUT ALSO GRATITUDE AND KIND OF A WAY TO HONOR THE RIVER.

I THINK WE FELT THAT.

>> Laura: THAT COMES ACROSS IN THE PIECE AND I KNOW I WAS AT YOUR INITIAL PERFORMANCE AT THE UNM ART MUSEUM AND I REMEMBER I FOUND MYSELF BRACING LIKE KNOWING WHAT WAS COMING, YOU KNOW, IN THE 2000'S AS WE SAW THE RIVER LEVELS DROP SO DRAMATICALLY.

LIKE I FOUND MYSELF REALLY BRACING AND WAITING TO SEE HOW THE SINGERS WERE GOING TO EMBODY THE RIVER.

I AM CURIOUS, YOU ALSO PROJECT THE RIVERS FLOWS IN SONG OUT INTO THE FUTURE.

HOW DID YOU DO THAT?

>> Demarco: THERE IS A POINT WHERE THE SCORE JUST KIND OF DISAPPEARS AND THE NEXT YEAR THAT COMES UP IS NEXT YEAR AND THE THOUGHT WAS TO ASK THESE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN REHEARSING THIS PIECE OVER AND OVER AGAIN WHO VISITED THE RIVER, PART OF THE SCORE INSTRUCTION IS THAT THE SINGER SHOULD VISIT THE RIVER THE DAY BEFORE IT IS PERFORMED, RIGHT, WHO ARE FINDING THIS CONNECTION AND WHO NOW KNOW THE DATA, RIGHT, BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN SEEING THIS DATA FOR WEEKS AND WEEKS AND WEEKS, TO THEN, AS PART OF EMBODYING AND CHANNELING THE RIVER, TO THEN PROJECT ITS FUTURE.

SO, THAT IS A COMPLETELY IMPROVISATIONAL SEGMENT OF THE PIECE.

AND IT STARTS WITH THE NEXT YEAR AND GOES OUT A COUPLE THOUSAND YEARS.

WE KNOW THAT -- I THINK WHAT WE HAVE SEEN THAT SCIENTISTS HAVE PROJECTED RIVER'S FUTURE OUT, I THINK, 100 YEARS OR 200 YEARS, BUT WE ARE LOOKING A LITTLE FURTHER AHEAD BECAUSE IF YOU REMEMBER THAT THE RIVER IS A MILLION YEARS OLD, THE LAST 50 YEARS OR SO, 40 YEARS, WHERE WE START TO SEE THE IMPACTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE IS NOTHING, IT IS A BLINK OF AN EYE.

WHEN YOU ASK THEM TO LOOK OUT A COUPLE THOUSAND YEARS, EVEN THAT IS NOTHING TO THE RIVER.

WE ARE TRYING TO IMAGINE TIME MORE FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE RIVER AND I KNOW THAT THE RIVER DOESN'T HAVE A PERSPECTIVE, BUT THINKING ABOUT THE AGE OF IT OUTSIDE OF US AND THINKING ABOUT IT AS AN ENTITY BEYOND US, RIGHT.

>> Laura: SO CAN YOU TELL US WHERE CAN PEOPLE SEE THIS EXHIBIT?

HOW CAN THEY BE INVOLVED AND POSSIBLY CONTRIBUTE OR BE A PART OF THIS AS WELL?

>> Demarco: YEAH.

SO, WE INITIALLY PLAN TO MAKE IT A PHYSICAL INSTALLATION OR ASKED TO MAKE A PHYSICAL INSTALLATION AT UNM ART MUSEUM BUT PANDEMIC GOT IN THE WAY OF THOSE PLANS.

IT IS AT OTHERNAMESFORTHERIVER DOT COM IS WHERE YOU FIND THE PIECE.

WE MADE A WEB-BASED INSTALLATION AND WE ARE ASKING THAT IF PEOPLE WANT TO, THEY CAN CONTRIBUTE.

THERE IS A PAGE THERE CALLED TRIBUTARIES.

AND THE IDEA IS THAT PEOPLE CAN TELL A STORY, THEY COULD FOLLOW THE SCORE, WE HAVE THE SCORE AVAILABLE THERE, IF THEY WANT TO SING IT.

THERE IS A HOT LINE SO IF YOU DON'T HAVE TIME TO LIKE RECORD YOURSELF WITH THE PHONE AND SEND AN EMAIL ABOUT IT, YOU CAN JUST CALL A PHONE NUMBER AND TELL US THE STORY DEPENDING ON YOUR ACCESS TO INTERNET.

WE WANTED TO MAKE THAT AN OPTION FOR ANYONE WHO LIVES ON THE RIVER EVEN IN REALLY RURAL AREAS WHERE MAYBE YOU CANNOT ACCESS THIS BODY, RIGHT.

SO YOU CAN SING US A SONG, YOU CAN WRITE YOUR OWN SONG, RESPOND TO THE PIECE, YOU COULD FOLLOW THE PIECE.

AND THAT PART ENDED UP BEING REALLY EXCITING KIND OF LIKE ONE OF THOSE THINGS WE ARE SO FOCUSED ON THE EXHIBITION BUT WE GOT SUCH GREAT CONTRIBUTIONS RIGHT AWAY TO THE TRIBUTARIES, I LOVED LISTENING TO ALL OF THEM AND THINKING ABOUT THE PERSON WHO OFTEN WOULD PUT A LITTLE INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT THEY WERE THINKING ABOUT AS THEY MADE THAT PIECE OR WHY THEY CHOSE THAT PART OF THE PIECE TO RESPOND TO OR TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHERE THEY ARE SO THAT PART IS REALLY COOL.

SO, TRIBUTARIES ON THE WEBSITE, OTHER NAMES FOR THE RIVER DOT COM.

>> Laura: I LOVE THIS EXHIBIT.

I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE HOW IT CONTINUES TO GROW AND MARISA DEMARCO, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Gene: PUT YOUR HAND UP IF YOU HAVE GOTTEN AT LEAST ONE VACCINE SHOT OF ANY BRAND.

I WOULD BE ONE.

THE GOOD NEWS IS A DECENT NUMBER OF US MAY HAVE PUT A HAND UP, AS MANY AS 50% IN SOME ESTIMATES, COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE COUNTRY WE ARE LOOKING ON TRACK FOR VACCINATION RATES THAT WERE SORT OF MOCKED AROUND THIS TIME LAST YEAR, NO?

THINGS CHANGED, TIMES CHANGE, ATTITUDES CHANGE, ALL THAT.

BUT, WHAT REMAINS IS DAUNTING.

WE HAVE SEEN THE DIRE WARNINGS FROM THE CDC ABOUT A POTENTIAL FOURTH WAVE, THAT MASKS MAY BE A FACT OF LIFE EVERY FLU SEASON.

NEW MEXICO IS DOING WHAT WE CAN AND DOING IT WELL, COMPARED TO OTHER STATES.

AS YOU HEARD FROM THE PANEL, THOSE NUMBERS NEED A DRY EYE WHEN IT COMES TO THE MOST VULNERABLE IN THE STATE.

ALL WE CAN DO FOR THE MOMENT IS STAY PATIENT AND HAVE TRUST THE STATE IS TRYING TO VACCINATE AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE.

UNTIL WE CAN ALL CLAIM TWO SHOTS, TWO WEEKS, LET'S STAY VIGILANT.

THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US AND STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK IN FOCUS.