"ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION OF STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.

>> CATHY: BIG SHOW FOR YOU TONIGHT WITH PLENTY OF POLITICS.

GOVERNOR WALZ IS HERE.

OUTGOING HEALTH COMMISSIONER JAN MALCOLM IS HERE TOO.

WE'LL HAVE A COUCH FULL OF POLI SCI PROFESSORS, AND MARY LAHAMMER FILLS US IN ON A QUICK START TO THE 2023 LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

>> >> Mary: THE NO LEGISLATURE IS OFF TO A FAST START WITH ONE-PARTY CONTROL TO THE GOVERNMENT.

WE'LL SHOW YOU HOW CHANGE IS ALREADY HAPPENING AT THE CAPITOL.

>> THE ELECTORATE SENT A REALLY STRONG MESSAGE.

>> TO WALK INTO THIS CHAMBER AND WATCH IT FILL WITH PEOPLE WAS AMAZING.

>> Mary: THAT'S COMING UP ON "ALMANAC."

"ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY... GREAT RIVER ENERGY: PROVIDING WHOLESALE POWER TO 28 MINNESOTA ELECTRIC COOPERATIVES.

DELTA DENTAL OF MINNESOTA FOUNDATION: IMPROVING ORAL HEALTH WHILE ADVANCING SOCIAL EQUITIES.

DELTADENTALMN.ORG/TPT.

THE SHAKOPEE MDEWAKANTON SIOUX COMMUNITY: A TRIBAL NATION FOCUSED ON COMMUNITY AND COLLABORATION, ESPECIALLY IN TIMES LIKE TODAY.

AND EDUCATION MINNESOTA: THE VOICE FOR PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

MORE AT EDUCATIONMINNESOTA.ORG.

ONE GREATER MINNESOTA REPORTING ON "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE OTTO BREMER TRUST, WHOSE MISSION IS INVESTING IN PEOPLE, PLACES AND OPPORTUNITIES IN OUR REGION.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY THE BLANDIN FOUNDATION, WORKING TO STRENGHTEN RURAL MINNESOTA.

>> CATHY: COMING UP LATER IN THE HOUR, MIKE OSTERHOLM JOINS US WITH A POST-HOLIDAY SEASON COVID UPDATE.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE POPULATION CHALLENGES FACING THE RED LAKE NATION, AND WE'LL COVER ALL THE POLITICAL NEWS OF THE WEEK, WHICH IS WHERE WE START.

>> ERIC: MINNESOTA'S CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS AND THE LEGISLATURE WERE ALL SWORN IN EARLIER THIS WEEK AND DEMOCRATS ARE NOW OFFICIALLY IN CHARGE OF ALL THREE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT.

GOVERNOR TIM WALZ IS SPENDING THE FIRST FRIDAY OF HIS SECOND TERM HERE WITH US.

WELCOME BACK, GOVERNOR.

SAY, FOR AN INQUIRING NATION, HOW MUCH OF THE SURPLUS DO YOU THINK MINNESOTANS ARE GOING TO GET BACK?

TAX RELIEF?

>> WELL, LAST YEAR I THINK YOU SAW A SENSE OF THIS THAT WE DID A DEAL WHERE WE SPLIT IT UP INTO THIRD, A THIRD IN RAINY DAY FUNDS, A THIRD IN INVESTMENTS WE'LL MAKE IN EDUCATION AND IMPROVING LIVES AND THIRD IN RELIEF TO MINNESOTANS.

I THINK THAT WAS A PRETTY GOOD STARTING POINT AND THERE'S WORK TO BE DONE OBJECT THAT.

I THINK I HAVE A LITTLE MORE OF AN APPETITE FOR DIRECT REBATE COLLECTION TO FOLKS TO MAKE IT AN IMPACTS ON COSTS RIGHT NOW BUT I DO THINK, AND MY PLEDGE WAS IS TO MAKE LIFE LESS EXPENSIVE FOR FOLKS IN THE MIDDLE CLASS, BOTH IN THE SHORT TERM AND THE LONG TERM, REDUCING SOME OF THE COSTS AROUND CHILD CARE, HEALTH CARE, SOME OF THOSE THINGS.

>> Cathy:URE DFL COLLEAGUES WERE A LITTLE COOL TO THE IDEA OF REBATE COLLECTION LAST YEAR.

ARE THEY COMING ALONG?

>> I THINK SO AND I SAY THIS BECAUSE I THINK THERE ARE THINGS THAT WE CAN DO TOGETHER.

I DO THINK WE HAVE TO BE RESPONSIBLE, YOU NOW, THINKING LONG TERM SO WE DON'T CREATE A DEFICITS SITUATION.

I THINK THEY'RE APPEALING TO ME AND I THINK I'M BRINGING THEM ALONG ON THIS IS GETS THAT CASH INTO HANDS OF PEOPLE WHO NEEDS T NOW MAKES A DIFFERENCE AND YOU'RE HIMSELF NOT SETTING UP A CLIFF BECAUSE IT'S ONE TIME.

>> Eric: WITH THE SOCIAL SECURITY TAX ELIMINATION, WOULD THAT KEEP SENIORS IN THE STATE OR IS THAT JUST ANECDOTAL OR DO WE KNOW THAT?

>> NO, I THINK -- I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY MOVE FOR THAT BECAUSE WHEN YOU THINK OF WHAT'S THERE, BUT IGNORE MANY OF US, WE FEEL LIKE THAT ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO WERE PREDOMINANTLY LIVING ON SOCIAL SECURITIES, THAT'S WHY MINNESOTA -- ABOUT HALF OF MINNESOTA SENIORS PAY NOTHING ON THAT AND THEN IT GRADUALLY INCREASES.

WE INCREASE THAT NUMBER, YOU KNOW, TO GO UP FURTHER IN 2019.

I'VE SAID THAT I DON'T NECESSARILY FAVOR THE ENTIRE ELIMINATION BECAUSE THEN YOU'RE GIVING TAX BREAKS TO FOLKS IN THE MILLIONS WHO DON'T NEED THAT, YOU KNOW, ON SOCIAL SECURITY BUT I THINK IT MAKES SENSE.

I'M NOT SURE IF IT'S A MOVING THING BUT I THINK IT'S AN IMPROVEMENT OF QUALITIES OF LIFE.

I THINK THE INVESTMENTS WE MAKE IN LONG-TERM CARE FOR SENIORS, ABOUT KEEPING THEM IN THEIR HOMES, ABOUT ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE, ABOUT LIVABILITY IN THEIR COMMUNITY, WALKABILITY, MINNESOTA RANKS VERY HIGH IN CARE FOR SENIORS.

I THINK THAT'S JUST ONE MORE WAY TO ENHANCE THAT.

>> Cathy: GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP BECAUSE IN YOUR INAUGURATION, YOU SAID YOU WANT MINNESOTA TO E THE BEST PLACE FOR KIDS BUT, YOU KNOW, MINNESOTA IS AN AGING STATE, RIGHT?

>> YES.

>> athy: AND LONG-TERM CARE IS A HUGE ISSUE.

>> YEAH.

>> Cathy: SO HOW HELP FOLKS?

>> YEAH, I FRAMED THAT AS CHILDREN AND FAMILY AND EVERYONE AND WHAT WE KNOW FROM THE RESEARCH IS WHEN YOU SEE CHILDHOOD POVERTY GO DOWN, OBVIOUSLY POVERTY GOES DOWN EVERYWHERE AND WHEN YOU SEE QUALITIES OF LIFE IM APPROACHED FOR CHILDREN, ESPECIALLY ACROSS RACIAL GROUPS, ALL QUALITY DOES.

I THINK YOUR LONG-TERM CARE IS RIGHT.

MINNESOTANS PROBABLY KNOW THIS, THERE IS A HUGE EFFORT THAT HAS BEEN MADE JAN MALCOLM WHO YOU'LL HAVE ON CAN TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS.

MINNESOTA SENIORS STAY IN THEIR HOMES LONGER THAN ANY OTHER STATE BUT WHEN FOLKS GO TO LONG-TERM CARE, THEY TENDS TO HAVE MORE OF THE HEALTH ISSUES THAT COME BECAUSE THEY'RE OLDER AND I THINK JUST TALKING ABOUT SETTLING CONTRACTS WITH OUR PERSONAL CARE ASSISTANTS, ALL OF THOSE THINGS, THAT IS THAT BIGGER PIECE OF THAT.

YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

THINKING ABOUT LONG-TERM QUALITY OF LIFE, HOW DO WE KEEP PEOPLE IN THEIR HOMES AND IN THEIR COMMUNITIES LONGER AND HOW DO WE ADDRESS BOTH SPECIFICALLY LONG-TERM CARE THE WORKFORCE SHORTAGES OF AN AGING POPULATION IS GOING TO FACE.

>> Eric: AT THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE DINNER IT IS OTHER NIGHT, I HEARD YOU SAY THAT YOU WANTED TO MAKE SURE STATE TAXPAYERS FEEL THEY'RE GETTING THE BEST BANG FOR THE BUCK FOR THEIR TAX DOLLARS.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> Eric: AND THAT IMPLIES TO ME THAT YOU CAN RIGHT NOW THEY'RE NOT GETTING A BANG FOR THE BUCK?

>> I DO THINK THEY ARE BUT I THINK WE DON'T DO A GOOD ENOUGH JOB OF MAYBE SHOWING THEM.

WE TALKED ABOUT THIS RESULTS-BASED GOVERNMENTS.

COVID HELPED US DO THAT WHERE YOU COULD GO TO THE WEBSITE, SEE WHERE THE VACCINES WERE, HOW YOU GOT AN APPOINTMENT AND THAT SORT OF THINGS.

IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT BEATING YOUR CHEST.

WE RANK FIFTH IN LOWEST POVERTY RATES WITH MOST PEOPLE, WITH CHILDREN.

WE RANK HIGH IN MANY F THESE ISSUES, BUT I THINK WHEN THERE'S NOT TRUST IN GOVERNMENT, AND WHEN THEY HEAR OF DIFFERENT THINGS OR ARE YOU SPENDING MY MONEY WISELY, ARE THERE SAFEGUARDS IN PLACE, WHAT ARE WE GETTING FOR DOING THIS I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THE BUSINESS COMMUNITIES BECAUSE THEY WANT TO KNOW RETURN ON INVESTMENT, WE'RE NOT A BUSINESS, WE'RE DOING THINGS THAT AREN'T MINUTES TO RUN MONEY, THEY'RE MINUTES TO IMPROVE QUALITIES OF LIFE BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE SHOULDN'T BE THOUGHTFUL OF HOW IT'S DONE AND I THINK TALKING TO THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY, IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT INVESTING, IT'S INVESTING TO GETS RESULTS, MEASURE THEM AND SHOW THE PUBLIC OF WHAT THEY'RE GETTING, AND TO BE VERY HONEST, THEY'RE MAKING THE CASE AND SAID, YOU KNOW, IS IT WORTH MAKING THIS INVESTMENT TO GET THIS MUCH OF A CHANGE THAT WE'RE GETTING?

OR IS THERE SOMETHING ELSE WE CAN DO.

I THINK WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE THAT CASE TO MINNESOTANS LOOKING MORE HO LIST -- HOLISTICALLY AT THE BUDGET, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BEING SILOED UP.

I THINK THERE'S MORE WORK LIKE THE COVID WORK TO BE DONE.

>> Cathy: A LOT OF SURPLUS IS ONE-TIME MONEY, RIGHT?

>> IT IS.

>> Cathy: AND SO HOW DO YOU -- HOW ARE YOU GOING TO BALANCE ALL THIS IN THE EN?

>> YEAH, IT IS ABOUT BALANCING.

THE ONE THING IS THAT MINNESOTANS HAD NOTED THIS, THIS SURPLUS IS MORE OF A -- CERTAINLY ONE TIME BECAUSE OF FEDERAL DOLLARS, SPENDING HABITS THAT CHANGED, LETTING, YOU KNOW, MINNESOTANS KNOW, WE LOWERED TAXES SO THIS IS NOT BECAUSE WE INCREASED TAXES AND TOOK IN A BUNCH MORE MONEY, IT WAS DIFFERENT PATTERNS.

BUT WE ARE CONTINUING TO SEE SOME OF THOSE ARE BEING SURPLUSES THAT ARE GOING YEAR AFTER YEAR AND I THINK THERE IS A RESPONSIBILITY FOR US TO SAY, THESE ARE THE SERVICES YOU'RE GOING TO PROVIDE, THIS IS WHAT WE AGREED UPON.

THIS IS THE LEVEL WE'RE GOING TO AGREE UPON AND WE SHOULDN'T BE COLLECTING MORE THAN WHAT'S IN THERE ON THAT.

AND WHAT I THINK THE THING IS WITH THE SURPLUS AND THE WAY WE'RE LOOKING AT IT IS TO DO A LOT OF THE CATCHING UP THAT'S BEEN THERE AND THEN BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN SOME OF THESE THINGS GOING OUT, OR BE ABLE TO GETS TO THE POINT WHERE WE'RE ABLE TO INNOVATE.

YOU HEARD IT AT THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE DINNER, WORKFORCE, AGING POPULATION, THIS ISN'T JUST, YOU KNOW, A PROBLEM IN MINNESOTA, IT'S NOT JUST A PROBLEM IN THE UNITED STATES, IT'S A PROBLEM IF FINLAND, A PROBLEM IN JAPAN.

I'VE TALKED ABOUT, IF WE CAN MAKE A STATE THAT IS DESIRABLE FOR PEOPLE TO COME, IF THE SERVICES ARE TOP QUALITY, IF YOUNG TEACHERS, YOUNG NURSES, YOUNG ENTREPRENEURS WANT TO COME HERE, THAT HELPS AND THEN WE MAKE SURE THAT THOSE SERVICES ARE PROVIDING THEM WHAT THEY NEED TO THRIVE.

>> Eric: THIS DIDN'T COME FROM YOU, THIS CAME FROM THE LEGISLATIVE LEADERS BUT THEY STARTED THE WEEK REALLY FOCUSING ON ABORTION AND MARIJUANA.

>> YEAH.

>> Eric: I WONDER IF THAT'S THE PLACE TO STARTS.

THE REPUBLICANS WERE CALLING IT CONTROVERSIAL AND DIVISIVE.

>> WELL, I DON'T THINK THE IDEA -- THE VOTERS CERTAINLY DON'T THINK THAT A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO MAKE HERITAGE OWN HEALTH CARE CHOICES AND ACCESS TO RECEIVE, LEGALITY ABORTIONS, THAT'S VERY CLEAR ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND I THINK THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS PLEDGED TO PUT IN PLACE.

LOOK, WE CAN MULTI-TASK.

WE KNOW WE STILL HAVE TO HAVE THE LEGISLATURE DO THEIR WORK.

WE'LL COME IN WITH TARGETS, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS WE'LL DO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT TARGETS, THIS IS HOW MUCH WE WANT TO SPENDS, THIS IS HOW WE'LL SPEND IT, GETTING THAT DONE EARLIER.

AND I THINK THIS DISCUSSION AROUND RECREATIONAL CANNABIS, IT'S BEEN OUT THERE AND I WOULD MANGE A CASE, IT'S CERTAINLY NOT MORE IMPORTANT THAN IT IS LONG-TERM CARE PROVIDERS BUT WE CAN DO IT SIMULTANEOUSLY.

WE'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS FOR A FEW YEARS.

>> Cathy: I WAS THINKING ABOUT THAT, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND THAT THE PROSECUTION OF THOSE WITH MARIJUANA -- BREAKING MARIJUANA LAWS IS -- AFFECTS FOLKS OF COLOR MORE, RIGHT.

>> >> IT DOES.

>> Cathy: COULD YOU MAYBE JUST EXPUNGE -- EXPUNGE RECORDS WITHOUT LEGAL AIDING IT?

BECAUSE YOU HAVE HEALTH CONCERNS, RIGHT, AND PUBLIC SAFETY CONCERNS.

>> RIGHT, I SAID JUST TO BE CLEAR, LEGAL AIDING THIS CAN'T ABOUT TRYING TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO DO IT.

I CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO ENCOURAGE MY CHILDREN TO BUT I WANT AS ADULTS FOR THEM TO MAKE A WISE DECISION, I WANT THEM TO DO IT WHERE IT'S SAFE AND WE KNOW IT'S IN THE PRODUCT, THAT IT'S REGULATED ON THAT AND THE BELIEF IS THAT, AGAIN, IT'S NOT THROWING UP OUR HANDS AND GIVING UP, A PROHIBITION DOESN'T WORK AND IT CAUSES ALL KIND OF ITS OWN PROBLEMS ARE PROBLEMS, CREATES A BLACK MARKET UNDERGROUNDS, CREATES SOME OF THE CRIMES THAT WE KNOW -- IT'S NOT JUST MARIJUANA, ALL THE OTHER THINGS FROM OPIOIDS AND WHATEVER, BUT IN ALMOST 90% OF THESE FIREARM INCIDENCE IN SHOOTING, THERE IS A TIE BACK TO THESE DRUGS AND I SAID I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS IS IF WE KNOW IT'S LEGAL, IT'S SAFER, IT'S REGULATED, BUT I WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR, I'M NOT ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO DO IT.

I DO THINK THERE'S HEALTH CONCERNS, THERE'S HEALTH CONCERNS AROUND ALCOHOL AND SOME OTHER THINGS BUT WE MAKE IT AS SAFE AS POSSIBLE AND REGULATE IT AND JUST BEING REASONABLE.

IT IS CERTAINLY HERE, COULD CERTAINLY BE GOTTEN TO AND THEN I THINK YOU BE VERY SERIOUS ABOUT AFTER THIS IS DONE AND AFTER THINGS ARE EXPUNGED, IF YOU'RE SELLING ON THE BLACK MARKET AFTER IT'S LEGALIZED, THERE NEEDS TO BE SERIOUS PENALTIES FOR THAT.

>> Eric: IN YOUR BUDGET ON JANUARY 24th, WILL WE FIND OUT WHAT IT ACTUALLY COSTOS FULLY FUNDS EDUCATION?

>> WELL, I -- WELL, YEP.

I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS IS THAT IDEA ABOUT FULLY FUNDING IT, I WANT TO BE CLEAR ON EDUCATION.

I TALKED TO EDUCATIONAL LEADERS TODAY, THAT BUDGETS WILL INCLUDE, AGAIN, THAT STUDENT BRINGS EVERYTHING WITH THEM INTO THAT CLASSROOM AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT FULLY FUNDING EDUCATION, WE'RE MAKING SURE WE GET THEM FED.

THAT HENNEPIN COUNTY MEALS FOR ALL, MAKE SURELY THERE'S HOUSING AND VOUCHERS AND A MULTI-PRONGED APPROACH TO EARLY CHILDHOOD.

I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE IS THAT WE GET A HANDLE THEN THIS IS THAT I AM -- LEAKING WHAT'S COMING OUT EARLY N THIS, I'M GOING TO INDEX EDUCATION FUNDING TO INFLATION, AND THAT HAS A LOT MORE TO DO WITH IT BECAUSE WHEN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THIS, WHEN DO YOU FINALLY GET THERE, OKAY, LET'S SAY WE DO 2% ON THE FORMULA EVERY YEAR AND INFLATION OVER THE LAST TEN YEARS EQUALS OUT TO BE 3.5%.

WE'VE ACTUALLY, YOU DO THE MATH, THAT WE'VE GONE DOWN.

I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS WE TALK ABOUT FULLY FUNDING EDUCATION IS MAKING SURE THE SERVICES ARE IN PLACE TO SEE THOSE SUCCESSES.

ONCE AGAIN, FIFTH HIGHEST GRADUATION RATES, WELD BE VERY PROUD OF WHAT OUR SCHOOLS ARE DOING BUT WE CAN TALK ABOUT OUR SUCCESSES STATEMENT OF TALKING ABOUT WHERE THERE'S FAILURES AND I THINK IN MINNESOTA, WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT THIS BECAUSE WHEN I'M OUT THERE PATTING EVERYBODY ON THE BACK, WE'RE FIFTH HIGHEST IN GRADUATION RATES, WE KNOW WHEN YOU DISAGGREGATE THE DATA, WE KNOW WHAT'S THERE.

SAME THING WHEN YOU DISAGGREGATE HOUSING DATA, PAY IN GENERAL AND I SAID I THINK WE'RE TAKING A MUCH MORE MULTI-AGENCY PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP APPROACH TO HOW DO WE GET AT THIS BECAUSE MORALLY WE CAN'T AFFORD TO LETS ANY CHILD FALL BEHIND BUT RIGHT NOW WE KNOW WE CAN'T ALLOW ANYBODY TO FALL BEHIND BECAUSE OF THE WORKFORCE SHORTAGE THAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE.

THIS IS DEMOGRAPHICALLY THERE, IS THERE SOME OUT-MIGRATION BASED OBJECT IT'S TOO COLD OR TAXES OR WHATEVER, SOME, BUT IT'S HAVE BEEN DEEPER THAN THAT.

JUST SIMPLE DEMOGRAPHICS OF AGING AND WHERE THE POPULATION IS SHIFTING.

>> Cathy: FEEDING OUR CHILDREN SCANDAL WAS A IG ISSUE GURG THE CAMPAIGN AND I'M WONDERING DOES THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE OVERSIGHT OF NONPROFITS IN MINNESOTA?

>> LET ME TALK ABOUT THIS.

>> Eric: AND THEY WANT FEWER REGULATIONS OR NO MORE REGULATIONS.

>> NO, THEY ARE IN-MINNESOTA NONPROFITS, BECAUSE OF THE GENEROSITY OF AMERICAN -- MINNESOTANS, ARE SOME OF THE BEST FUNDED AND DO SOME INCREDIBLE WORK.

AND I THINK WHAT I HAVE SAID ON THIS IS THE PUBLIC NEEDS TO BE OUTRAGED.

I AM UTRAGED AT THE THOUGHT THESE PEOPLE WOULD DO THIS BUT I WANT TO BE CLEAR, THIS FRAUD TOOK PLACE OF CRIMINALS JUSTING THE FRONT OF A NONPROFIT TO EXPLOITS THE SYSTEM.

THAT HOULD STONE.

WE SHOULD DO EVERYTHING POSSIBLE WHICH WE HAVE.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE AN I.G.

OVER AT THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, WE'RE GOING TO DO SYSTEM-WIDE GRANT-MAKING, MAKING SURE THERE'S AUDITS ACROSS THE SYSTEM.

WE'RE GOING TO PLAYING SURE THERE'S OUTSIDE EYES ON THIS SO THAT PEOPLE CAN'T EXPLOIT THAT.

MINNESOTANS SHOULD EXPECT THAT TO HAPPEN BUT OUTSIDE OF THAT, THERE WERE SO MANY NONPROFITS DOING SUCH INCREDIBLE WORK FOLLOWING THE RULES, WHAT THEY'RE AFRAID OF IS THAT WE WILL PULL EVERYTHING SO BACK IT WILL MAKE IT SO DIFFICULT TO CROSS THAT THRESHOLD THAT ALL THE GOOD ACTORS CAN'T GETS THERE.

OUR GOAL SHOULD BE TO MAKE SURE GOOD ACTORS CAN ACCESS THIS, DELIVER WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO AND CRIMINALS CAN'T GET AWAY WITH IT.

>> Eric: HAVE YOU TALKED TO YOUR FAMILY ABOUT A THIRD TERM?

>> NO, IT'S THE 6th OF JANUARY, I THINK -- >> Eric: AS YOU MAKE YOUR LONG-TERM PLAN.

>> Cathy: MOST GOVERNORS WHERE YOU ARE RIGHT NOW -- [Overlapping Conversation] >> I'M KIND OF -- I SAID I DID THIS THIS WEEK AND I'VE TRIED TO DO THIS MORE AS I AGE AND TRY TO LIVE IN THE PRESENT, TRYING TO BE PRESENT, TRYING TO BE IN THE MOMENT, ENJOY WHERE WE'RE AT.

I WILL HAVE TO SAY AND CERTAINLY IT HAS TO DO WITH THE MAKE-UP OF THE LEGISLATURE BUT IT HAS TO DO, I THINK, MUCH MORE THAT THIS SENSE OF OPTIMISM THAT I'M FEELING AND I THINK IS REALLY NEEDED SO WE'VE NOT THOUGHT ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

I THINK WE'LL SEE AND LET THE MINNESOTA VOTERS DECIDE, SO... >> Eric: THANKS FOR COMING OVER.

HAPPY NEW YEAR.

>> HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU.

>> Cathy: HAPPY NEW YEAR.

THANK YOU.

STORM >> CATHY: THERE'S OFTEN HIGH TURNOVER IN A GOVERNOR'S CABINET AT THE BEGINNING OF A SECOND TERM.

AND THIS ADMINISTRATION IS NO DIFFERENT.

AMONG THOSE WITH THEIR LAST DAY ON THE JOB THIS WEEK, RETIRING HEALTH COMMISSIONER JAN MALCOLM WHO SERVED IN THAT POSITION UNDER THREE DIFFERENT GOVERNORS AND LED THE STATE THROUGH THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC.

WELCOME BACK.

AND CONGRATULATIONS.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Cathy: WOW, WHERE SHOULD WE START IN YOU KNOW, I WONDER IF YOU HAVE A THOUGHT A LOT ABOUT -- AS YOU'RE LEAVING, THE PANDEMIC IS STILL GOING ON.

YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT NEW VARIANTS THAT ARE RAISING THEIR UGLY HEADS.

>> YEAH.

>> Cathy: AND WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, FIRST OF ALL, I'M SO GRATEFUL TO MINNESOTANS FOR ALL THAT WE'VE DONE TOGETHER.

I MEAN, WE REALLY ARE IN A POSITION NOW WHERE WE CAN MANAGE THIS BUT WE HAVE TO KEEP FOCUSED ON IT.

WE CAN'T JUST IGNORE IT AND PRETEND IT'S OVER.

WE'VE GOT THE TOOLS TO KEEP THIS FROM DISRUPTING OUR LIVES AS MUCH AS IT HAS, AND PROTECTING HEALTH BUT WE NEED TO STAY ON IT.

WE NEED TO REALLY PAY ATTENTION TO THINGS LIKE STAYING UP TO DATE WITH VACCINATIONS, GETTING TREATMENTS, TESTING, ALL THOSE BASIC THINGS.

I JUST HOPE MINNESOTANS CAN LANGUAGE IN THERE AND KEEP DOING THE THINGS THAT WE KNOW WORK.

>> Cathy: BUT PEOPLE SEEM KIND OF OBLIVIOUS AT THIS POINT, RIGHT, SO DOES IT IS MESSAGING HAVE TO CHANGE?

>> EVERYONE'S FATIGUED AND WE CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND THAT BUT IT IS INTERESTING TO ME.

THE MEDIA IS STILL COVERING IT, WE'RE STILL TALKING ABOUT IT ALL THE TIME BUT WE DO HAVE THIS FATIGUE FACTOR, SOMETHING'S GOT TO HAPPEN TO SORT OF BREAK THROUGH AND I HOPE THAT DOESN'T TAKE ANOTHER HUGE SPIKE IN CASES.

AND E JUST HAVE TO FIND WAYS OF MAKING THIS RELEVANT FOR PEOPLE AND HELPING THEM KNOW THAT THAT IS STILL A VERY REAL THREAT.

>> Eric: LOOKING AT THE PUBLIC HEALTH SYSTEM WRIT LARGE, WHAT DID COVID EXPOSE THAT ARE SOFT SPOTS IN THE SYSTEM AND ARE WE CAPABLE OF FILLING THOSE HOLES?

>> WELL, WE'VE LEARNED -- WE SHOULD HAVE LEARNED A LOT OF LESSONS FROM THIS, AND THAT'S SOMETHING I HAVE ENERGY TO KEEP WORKING ON IN THE YEARS TO COME.

WHAT WE SAW WAS THE RESULTS OF CHRONIC UNDERFUNDING OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH SYSTEM, THE WORKFORCE WAS ALREADY REALLY DEPLETED BEFORE THE PANDEMIC HIT.

AND WE'VE GOT THIS PATCHWORK QUILT OF EVERYTHING IS FUNDED, ONE DISEASE AT A TIME.

THERE'S NO FUNDING FOR THE ACTUAL CORE WORK OF PUBLIC HEALTH AT ALL, COMES THROUGH GRANTS OR WORK ON THIS DISEASE OR THAT DISEASE, SO WE REALLY DO NEED TO REALLY SHORE UP THE INFRASTRUCTURE OF PUBLIC HEALTH AT ALL LEVELS.

WE'VE SEEN WHAT A DIFFERENCE IT MAKES WHEN PUBLIC HEALTH WORKS EFFECTIVELY AND WHEN THERE ARE HOLES IN THE SYSTEM.

>> YOUR FRIEND MIKE OSTERHOLM IS GOING O JOIN US HERE MOMENTARILY AND HE SAYS IT'S NOT A MATTER OF IF BUT WHEN THERE IS ANOTHER PANDEMIC.

ARE WE PREPARED FOR THE NEXT PANDEMIC?

>> WELL, WE'VE CERTAINLY LEARNED THAT WE HAVE TO THINK AT A SCALE THAT WE PERHAPS PREVIOUSLY HADN'T.

WE'RE REALLY VERY GOOD AT CONTROLLING OUTBREAKS THAT ARE SORT F MORE DEFINED AND CONFINED, WHETHER THAT'S IN TIME OR IN POPULATIONS.

NOBODY HAD EVER SEEN ANYTHING OF THIS DURATION, THIS SIZE, ALL ACROSS THE WORLD AT THE SAME TIME.

NOW WE KNOW, WE HAVE TO THINK AT THAT LEVEL AND DO A MUCH BETTER JOB OF CONNECTING INTERNATIONALLY, URVEILLANCE HAS GOT TO BE MUCH MORE CONNECTED THAN IT'S EVER BEEN BUT DO I THINK WE'VE LEARNED SOME LESSONS THAT CAN HELP US BE MORE PREPARED.

>> Eric: WHAT WAS IT LIKE BEING A POLITICAL LIGHTNING ROD?

>> WELL, THAT WAS NOT THE MOST FUN THING ABOUT IT IS JOB.

I SUPPOSE IT WAS INEVITABLE BUT THAT WAS ONE OF THE HARD THINGS ABOUT THE PANDEMIC WAS HOW IT DID BECOME KIND OF AN IDEOLOGICAL DIVIDE, AND IT GOT HARDER AND HARDER TO AGREE ON FACTS.

WE COULD DISAGREE ON WHAT TO DO ABOUT THE FACTS BUT IF YOU CAN'T AGREE ON THE FACTS, IT'S PRETTY HARD TO SUCCESSFULLY DEAL WITH PROBLEMS, SO THAT WAS DIFFICULT.

I THINK FOR A LOT OF US, CERTAINLY OUR COLLEAGUES IN LOCAL PUBLIC HEALTH, PROBABLY FELT IT MORE PERSONALLY THAN THOSE OF US AT THE STATE LEVEL BUT THAT -- THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WAS TRULY PAINFUL.

>> Cathy: YOU KNOW, YOU COULD HAVE -- LAWMAKERS ARE CALLING FOR YOUR JOB AND IT WAS JUST SO STRESSFUL, YOU COULD HAVE JUST SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT, I'M DONE WITH THIS.

JUST -- I DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS.

DID YOU EVER THINK OF QUITTING?

>> I REALLY DID NOT.

I THINK THE WORK WAS VERY COMPELLING, I MEAN, IT WAS VERY HARD BUT IT WAS A HUGE PRIVILEGE TO SERVE AT A TIME WHERE OBVIOUSLY WHAT WE WERE DOING WAS SO VERY IMPORTANT.

THERE'S JUST SUCH A DEEP MISSION COMMITMENT THAT FOLKS IN PUBLIC HEALTH HAVE, IT WAS REALLY AN HONOR TO BE PART OF THAT TEAM.

YOU KNOW, I HAD HOPED TO FINISH OUT THE FIRST TERM, THAT SORTS OF WAS APPLES MY PLAN TO JUST DO THE FIRST TERM.

I'M REALLY GLAD THAT WE WERE ABLE TO GET ALL THE WAY THERE.

>> Cathy: NOW, WHAT DO YOU DO FOR FOLKS AS YOU LEAVE?

THERE'S STILL -- AS WE SAY, THE PANDEMIC IS GOING ON, WHAT DO YOU DO ABOUT THE ON IF GOING BURNOUT AND TRAUMA, HOW DO YOU FIX THAT AMONG HEALTH CARE WORKERS?

>> IT NEEDS ATTENTION.

I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT WHICH DON'T IGNORE THAT.

PEOPLE NEED TO REALIZE THE ENORMOUS STRAIN THAT'S BEEN ON OUR PUBLIC HEALTH CARE WORKERS AND OUR HEALTH CARE WORKERS.

FOLKS NEED TIME, THEY NEEDS RESOURCES TO RECOVER AND I THINK JUST THE ACKNOWLEDGEMENT THAT THEY'VE BEEN THROUGH SOMETHING EXTRAORDINARY IS NOT TO JUST SAY, OH, JUST BUCK UP AND KEEP GOING AT 100 MILES AN HOUR.

I THINK PEOPLE NEED A LITTLE RECOVERY TIME.

>> Eric: WELL, THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR SERVICE TO THE STATE.

IT'S BEEN AN EXTRAORDINARY RUN FOR YOU.

>> WELL, T HAS BEEN.

I FEEL VERY, VERY PRIVILEGED AND IT'S BEEN NICE TO SEE YOU GUYS ALL THROUGHOUT, AS WELL.

>> Cathy: WE'VE SPENT A LONG TIME TOGETHER HERE.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

BEST OF LUCK.

>> THANKS.

WE WISH YOU THE BEST IN RETIREMENT.

WE'RE GOING TO GET OUR NEXT GUEST, MIKE OSTERHOLM, SETTLED IN.

WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

>> LATE LAST FALL, THERE WERE CONCERNS OF A "TRIPLE-DEMIC" AS THE FLU SEASON HIT EARLY, COVID NUMBERS WERE RISING, HOSPITALS WERE FILLING UP, AND LARGER FAMILY AND FRIEND GATHERINGS WERE ON THE HORIZON FOR THE HOLIDAY SEASON.

WHERE DO THINGS STAND NOW?

MIKE OSTERHOLM HEADS UP THE U OF M'S CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH AND POLICY.

HE'S BEEN VISITING WITH US NEARLY MONTHLY SINCE THE COVID PANDEMIC HIT MINNESOTA ALMOST THREE YEARS AGO.

DOCTOR, WHAT'S UP WITH CHINA AND IS THAT A PRECURSOR TO THINGS TO COME IN THE PANDEMIC WORLD HERE?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME AGAIN TONIGHT AND BEFORE I ANSWER THAT, LET ME JUST SAY THAT ONE OF THE GREATEST PRIVILEGES OF MY CAREER HAS BEEN WORKING WITH JAN MALCOLM.

SHE IS A TRUE SERVANT LEADER, SHE STAYED WITH THE SCIENCE, SHE WAS INCREDIBLY KIND AND ANYONE WHO'S EVER WORKED WITH HER LOVES HER DEARLY AND APPRECIATES HER.

I'VE ALWAYS SAID, THERE ARE VERY FEW PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD THAT I WOULD DO THIS FOR BUT IF JAN MALCOLM ASKED ME TO TAKE THE HILL, I I WOULD TAKE IT AND KNOWLEDGE COME ACK LATER AND ASK HER WHY WE DID IT.

I HOPE EVERYONE LISTENING TONIGHT REALIZES HOW INCREDIBLY MUCH OF A GIFT SHE'S BEEN DO OUR STATE.

CHINA.

>> Eric: WE HAVE THE BA 275, CHINA'S ENDED COVID-0, WHERE ARE WE AT HERE?

>> WELL, AS I HAVE SAID SHOW AFTER SHOW AFTER SHOW, EXPECT THIS VIRUS TO CONTINUE TO THROW 110-MIME N HOUR CURVE BALLS TO IT.

REMEMBER JUST SIX WEEKS AGO I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE TRIPLE EDENIC AND HOLIDAY SEASON AND TRAVEL, WE WERE GOING TO SEE BIG INCREASES IN CHASES.

IT DIDN'T DEVELOP.

THE TRIPLE DID HE MEANIC, THE INFLUENZA AND RSV IN NECKACHESES WERE VERY EARLY AND YES FOR THE FIRST TIME IN YEARS DID WE SEE THE ACTIVITY AS EARLY AS WE DID ABOUT THE IT IT'S TURNING OUT TO BE AN AVERAGE FLU SEASON AND ABOUT THE SAME WITH RSV.

NOW IN COVID, WE'VE BEEN ON THIS HIGH PLAINS PLATEAU WHERE WE'VE THE BETWEEN 450 AND 650 CASES IN THE HOSPITAL AT ONE TIME.

WE'VE HAD ROUGHLY 180 DEATHS AND IT'S CONTINUED TO STAY LIKE THAT.

THE BIG QUESTION WE'RE GOING TO HAVE WITH THIS NEW XVV 1.5 YOU TALKED ABOUT WHICH IS TAKEN OVER THE NORTHEAST WHERE WE'RE SEEING THE NUMBER OF HOSPITALIZATIONS AND DEATHS RISE RATHER DRAMATICALLY.

WE'VE JUST STARTED TO SEE THAT ENTER HERE IN MINNESOTA AND WE'RE NOT QUITE SURE HOW THAT'S GOING TO PLAY OUT.

>> Cathy: IT'S IMMUNE I WILL LOUIS IRV, IS THAT CORRECT?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

FIRST OF ALL, IT'S VERY HIGHLY INFECTIOUS.

IT HAS A WAY OF ATTACHING TO THE HUMAN CELL THAT IS ENHANCED OVER PREVIOUS STRAINS OF THE VIRUS.

IN ADDITION, FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, IT CAN ALSO EVADE MORE OF AN MMUNE PROTECTION.

SOMETIMES WE THINK THE VACCINES AREN'T PROTECTING.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE OVER 75 AGE, THOSE WHO HAVE HAD THE BIVALENT BOASTER HAVE A LOWER RISK OF DYING THAN THOSE WHO HAVE NOT.

IT'S VERY IMPORTANT WE GET THE BOOSTER DOSES AND WE EXPECT WITH THE NEW VARIANT, MAY NOT PREVENT YOU FROM GETTING -- INFECTED OR BECOMING SERIOUS ILL, BUT YOUR CHANCES ARE GREATLY REDUCED WITH A VACCINATION.

>> Cathy: WITH CHINA BEING A CAULDRON OF COVID AT THIS POINT, ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT OTHER VARIANTS POPPING UP AND COMING ON SHORE HERE?

>> YEAH, WELL, YOU KNOW, IT'S A CHALLENGE HERE.

I THINK ONE OF THE MOST UNFORTUNATE GOVERNANCE ISSUES IN THIS ENTIRE PANDEMIC IS WHAT CHINA DID.

AS YOU MAY RECALL, I ATTACKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE, I DID AN OWEDDEN PIECE IN THE "NEW YORK TIMES" LAST JANUARY, ONE YEAR AGO, IN WHICH WE PREDICTED EXACTLY WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO CHINA, ONCE THEY RELEASED THEIR ZERO COVID POLICY WHICH THEY COULD NOT MAINTAIN.

THEY HAD A YEAR TO BASICALLY GET BETTER VACCINES AND VACCINATE THE POPULATIONS WITH THEIR VACCINES AND THEY DIDN'T DO IT.

ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY PEELED BACK THE ZERO COVID POLICY BAND-AID AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THE WHOLE COUNTRY IS IN DISARRAY.

WE'RE HEARING ABOUT TRANSMISSION THERE NOW UNPARALLELED AT ANY TIME IN THE PANDEMICS, EACH IN PLACES LIKE HONG KONG, WHICH HAD BOTH ITS FOOT IN CHINA AND ON THE WESTERN WORLD.

THIS WEEK IT'S LIKELY THEY WILL ACTUALLY.

HIGHEST MORTALITY RATE, THE NUMBER OF DEATHS PER POPULATION, THAN ANY COUNTRY OR ANY AREA HAS HAD IN THE ENTIRE PANDEMIC.

AND SO IT'S A VERY SEVERE CHALLENGE THERE.

NOW, THE QUESTION YOU ASKED, WHAT WOULD BE MORE VARIANTS COMING OUT OF THERE.

I HAVE TO SAY RIGHT NOW THE VARIANT THAT HAS ME MORE CONCERNED IS THE NORTHEASTERN PART OF THE UNITED STATES.

THE VIRUSES WE'RE SEEING IN CHINA ARE THE ONES THAT WE SAW ALREADY AND THAT DIDN'T MAKES IT HERE.

BUT BECAUSE THERE'S SUCH LITTLE IMMUNITY IN CHINA, THEY'RE CAUSING GREAT HAVOC THERE, SO SURELY A NEW VARIANTS COULD COME UT OF CHILDREN ABUT RIGHT NOW I THINK THE VARIANT THAT IS MORE TROUBLING IS RIGHT HERE AT OUR FRONT DOOR.

>> Eric: SECOND WAVE OF THE FLU?

>> I DON'T SEE IT RIGHT NOW.

IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE I WAS ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO WERE CRITICAL OF THE MEDIA FOR HYPYING WHAT A THOUGHT WAS A TRIP'8" MAN -- TRIPLE DID HE MEANIC AND THEY MISINTERRUPTED WHAT WAS HAPPENING.

IF YOU WENT TO CHILE, ARGENTINA, SOUTH AFRICA, ALSO VERY EARLY FLU SEASON, SIX TO EIGHT WEEKS BEFORE WE USUALLY EVER SEE IT AND THEY DEPARTMENTS SAYING THIS IS TERRIBLE, BY THE TIME IT GOT EIGHT WEEKS OUT, IT STARTED TO BOTTOM OUT AND IT WAS PRIMARILY A PANDEMIC -- AN INFLUENZA SEASON IN KIDS WITH AGE 3 AND 2, WHICH IS THE STRAIN OF THE FLU VIRUS WE OFTEN SEE IN THE ELDERLY.

WE DIDN'T SEE NEARLY AS MANY CASES IN SENIOR CITIZENS SO I THINK THIS IS THE SAME THING THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN HERE, JUST AS WE SAW IN THE SOUTHERN HEMISPHERE, IT WAS EARLY, IT WENT UP QUICK BUT DIDN'T COME UP ANY HIGHER THAN A PREVIOUS YEAR AND SURELY, WE COULD HAVE A REBOUNDS BUT I THINK WHAT WILL CONFRONT US OVER THE MONTHS AHEAD ILL CONTINUES TO BE COVID WHICH AS I SAID KEEPS THROWING MORE CURVE BALLS AT US.

>> Eric: HAPPY NEW YEAR AND KEEP IN TOUCH AND WE APPRECIATE ALL THE WORK YOU'VE DONE FOR US.

>> Cathy: HAPPY NEW YEAR.

>> ERIC: AS WE'VE ALREADY NOTED, THE 2023 LEGISLATIVE SESSION STARTED EARLIER THIS WEEK WITH ONE PARTY CONTROL.

AND CHANGES ARE ALREADY HAPPENING WITH BIPARTISAN VOTES LED BY FRESHMEN WHO MAKE UP MORE THAN A THIRD OF THE NEW-LOOK LEGISLATURE.

MARY LAHAMMER HAS BEEN CHASING ALL THE ACTION THIS WEEK AND SETS THE STAGE FOR WHAT'S AHEAD.

>> Mary: THE HOUSE WILL COME TO ORDER.

>> Mary: THE 2023 LEGISLATIVE SESSION IS OFF AND RUNNING WITH A HEARING CODIFYING ABORTION INTO STATE LAW.

>> THE ELECTORATES CENTER A REALLY STRONG MESSAGE TO THEIR ELECTED LEADERS IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA THAT THEY VALUE THEIR REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM AND BODILY AUTONOMY.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE BODILY AUTONOMY, YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE.

THAT WAS IT IS MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE.

>> WE ARE A PRO-LIFE CAUCUS AND VERY PROUD OF THAT BUT WE NEED TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS.

I DO KNOW THAT MINNESOTANS ARE NOT EXTREME.

ABORTION SHOULD NOT BE LEGAL UP TO THE MOMENT OF BIRTH AND SO THERE'S CONVERSATIONS AND WORK THAT WE WILL E DOING TOGETHER.

>> Mary: HOUSE FILE ONE AND SENATE FILE ONE SLOWED IF I REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS.

>> WHAT HAPPENS TO ROE COULD HAPPEN TO MINNESOTA, TOO.

>> MY DEMOCRAT COLLEAGUES ARE NOT EVEN WILLING TO MAKE CONCESSIONS ON THE MOST EXTREME SITUATIONS.

>> Mary: PAID FAMILY LEAVES AND MARIJUANA LEGALIZATION WILL TAKE SOME TIME, ESPECIALLY IN THE SENATE.

>> MINNESOTANS ARE READY AND I BELIEVE THAT 2023 IS THE YEAR THAT WE WILL LEGALIZE ADULT-USE CANNABIS IN MINNESOTA.

>> WE HEARD REALLY OUD AND CLEAR FROM MINNESOTANS THAT WE CANNOT LEGALIZE CANNABIS WITHOUT EXPUNGEMENT.

THIS IS A RACIAL JUSTICE ISSUE.

>> Mary: ONE ISSUE THAT IS MOVING QUICKLY IN THE LOWS AND SENATE IS FEDERAL TAX CONFORMITY.

>> WE'RE JUST DIVING IN.

WE HAVE SORT OF A TIMING ISSUE ON OUR HANDS AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE MOVING SWIFTLY ON FEDERAL TAX CONFORMITY.

>> WE'RE EXCITED TO AGAIN GET TO WORK, WE WANT TO BUILD AN ECONOMY HAT WORKS FOR ALL.

WE HEARD ON THE DOORS THAT PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THEIR FREEDOMS AND THEIR RIGHTS AND THEY DON'T WANT THEM CHIPPED AWAY AND WE WANT STRONG SCHOOLS AND SAFE CAN COMMUNITIES AND A HEALTHY CLIMATE.

>> WEST DO HAVE A REALLY INCREDIBLE OPPORTUNITY, THE LARGEST SURPLUS IN STATE HISTORY, ONLY THE SECOND TRIFECTA IN 30 YEARS.

>> A SWEET START.

>> JUST GOT TO HIDE IT.

>> BARS FOR THE TEAM.

>> Mary: THE HOUSE IN BACK, COMPLETELY IN PERSON.

>> HOW DIFFERENT DID TODAY FEEL IN-PERSON, TONS OF NEW MEMBERS?

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION, THANK YOU FOR ASKING THAT.

OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS AS WE FACED THINGS WITH THE PANDEMIC, I REMEMBER IN '21 BEING SWORN IN AND I WAS IN MY OFFICE, WE ALLOWED NEW MEMBERS HERE, FAMILY COULDN'T BE HERE TO WALK INTO THIS CHAMBER AND WATCH IT FILL WITH PEOPLE WAS AMAZING.

>> Mary: THE SENATE WITH THE ONE-VOTE MARGIN IS RETAINING SOME VOTING OPTIONS.

>> WE NEED TO BE AT WORK.

THIS IS NOT A JOB THAT IS A HYBRID JOB, THAT WE CAN REMOTE IN.

>> COVERED IS OVER, WE NEED TO MOVE ON, DO THE PEOPLE'S WORK OF THE STATE.

>> AS A WOMAN AND AS A MOTHER-TO-BE, I REFUSE TO ACCEPT THAT IN 2023, WE STILL HAVE SYSTEMIC BARRIERS THAT KEEP WOMEN LIKE MYSELF FROM DOING THE JOB THAT WE NEED TO DO.

>> Mary: OUR VERY, VERY, VERY PREGNANT COLLEAGUE HAS ASKED FOR THIS.

>> Mary: FRESHMEN IN THE SENATE HAVE ALREADY PROVED TO BE A NEW DIVERSE SOURCE FOR CHANGE.

>> I LOOK FORWARD TO SERVING YOU AS PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE.

>> Mary: THE SESSION STARTS WITH RECORD DIVERSITY AND DOZENS OF FRESH LAWMAKERS.

NEW LEGISLATIVE LEADERS ARE IN EVERY CAUCUS.

>> I HIM, TIM WALZ DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR OR AFFIRM -- >> Mary: AND DEMOCRATS AGAIN DOMINATE ALL STATEWIDE OFFICES.

>> THE ERA OF GRIDLOCK IN St. PAUL IS OVER.

MINNESOTANS HAVE CHOSEN.

THEY CHOSE HOPE OVER FEAR.

THEY CHOSE FACT OVER FICTION AND THEY CHOSE ACTION OVER EXCUSES.

>> TO GROW UP AND BECOME THE FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN TO HOLD STATEWIDE OFFICE IN MINNESOTA.

AND A GOVERNMENT THAT LOOKS MORE AND MORE LIKE THE PEOPLE OF MINNESOTA WITH EACH PASSING ELECTION.

[Applause] >> I COME TO YOU WITH A RENEWED SENSE OF VIGOR AND COMMITMENT, PLUS FOUR YEARS OF EXPERIENCE.

>> I LIKE TO SAY THAT I'M IN THE DEMOCRACY BUSINESS.

IT'S A BUSINESS THAT HAS ENDURED QUITE A STRESS TEST THE LAST FEW YEARS, AND WE IN MINNESOTA DIDN'T JUST PASS THAT TEST, WE ACED THAT TEST.

>> WHEN YOU WIN BY 8,425 VOTES, YOU REALLY OWE IT TO EVERYBODY.

THANK YOU.

♪♪ >> FEW PEOPLE WOULD DISAGREE THAT KEVIN MCCARTHY MADE A WHOLE BUNCH OF BLUNDERS IN HIS QUEST TO BECOME SPEAKER OF THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

OH, FOLKS WILL DISAGREE ABOUT THE PRECISE NATURE OF THOSE ERRORS, BUT IT IS UNQUESTIONABLE THAT MISTAKES WERE MADE.

FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, THE BIGGEST BOO-BOO THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS MADE WAS TO TRY TO SETTLE THIS MESS JUST AMONG THE 220 OR SO MEMBERS OF THEIR OWN CAUCUS.

WHEN THINGS GET THAT HEATED, THAT ENTRENCHED, IT'S ONLY LOGICAL TO CALL IN SOMEONE RESPECTED, WITH PERSPECTIVE AND WISDOM.

THERE WAS AN EARLY ATTEMPT AT THIS.

SOMEWHERE BETWEEN BALLOTS THREE AND 915, SOMEONE MENTIONED DRAFTING RETIRED CONGRESSMAN FRED UPTON TO BE SPEAKER.

BUT IF THEY REALLY WANTED TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM, THEY WOULD HAVE TURNED TO THIS GUY.

YEP.

SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE.

MINNESOTA YMCA YOUTH IN GOVERNMENT.

1982.

THIS IS A PICTURE OF ME BEING SWORN IN BY THEN-SECRETARY OF STATE JOAN GROWE.

YOU THINK CORRALLING THE LIKES OF LAUREN BOEBERT AND MATT GATES IS TOUGH?

TRY PASSING LEGISLATION WITH A RAUCOUS DELEGATION OF KNOW-IT-ALL-TEENS WHOSE NERD-ERY IS EXCEEDED ONLY BY THEIR RAGING HORMONES.

LET ME TELL YOU, "LOOKING FOR A CO-SPONSOR" MEANT SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT IN THAT PARTICULAR DELIBERATIVE BODY.

MY WHOLE LEGISLATIVE PHILOSOPHY WAS, "I WANT YOU TO BE NICE.

UNTIL IT'S TIME TO NOT BE NICE."

I DON'T USUALLY LIKE TO TAKE CREDIT BUT THIS CREDO WAS SO POPULAR THAT IT WAS ACTUALLY APPROPRIATED ABOUT A HALF-DOZEN YEARS LATER BY PATRICK SWAYZE IN THE FILM "ROAD HOUSE."

A TOUGH BOUNCER HIRED TO TAME A DIRTY BAR.

A NO-NONSENSE PARLIAMENTARIAN, BRINGING PEACE TO A FRACTIOUS CAUCUS.

I THINK YOU SEE THE CONNECTION.

NOW, GIMME MY GAVEL.

♪♪ >> CATHY: A RECENT WILDER RESEARCH STUDY ON THE RED LAKE NATION'S POPULATION SHOWS THAT IF THE CURRENT BLOOD QUANTUM ENROLLMENT REQUIREMENTS CONTINUE, THE BAND FACES A CATASTROPHIC POPULATION DECLINE IN THE NEXT CENTURY.

CURRENTLY, AN INDIVIDUAL MUST HAVE AT LEAST ONE-QUARTER RED LAKE BLOOD TO CLAIM TRIBAL MEMBERSHIP.

THIS QUANTUM BLOOD SYSTEM WAS IMPOSED UPON THE RED LAKE NATION BY THE U.S. GOVERNMENT.

IT'S USED TO DETERMINE TRIBAL BENEFITS, WHICH WOULD DECLINE OR DISAPPEAR ALTOGETHER AS THE BAND SHRINKS IN SIZE.

THE STUDY OUTLINED OPTIONS FOR CHANGING THAT TRAJECTORY.

HERE WITH MORE, NICOLE MARTIN ROGERS LED THIS PROJECT FOR WILDER RESEARCH.

SHE IS A WHITE EARTH OJIBWE DESCENDANT.

AND JOINING US FROM RED LAKE NATION IN NORTHWESTERN MINNESOTA IS TRIBAL SECRETARY SAM STRONG.

WELCOME TO YOU BOTH.

THANK YOU.

>> WELCOME.

>> Cathy: NICOLE, WHAT DOES YOUR STUDY SHOW JUST IN THUMBNAIL SKETCH HERE FOR FOLKS?

>> SURE.

THE STUDY RESULTS SHOWED THAT IF RED LAKE NATION CONTINUES TO KEEP THEIR ENROLLMENT CRITERIA OF ONE-QUARTER BLOOD QUANTUM, THAT THE POPULATION WILL DECLINE STEEPLY OVER THE NEXT 100 YEARS OR SO AND WE ALSO LOOKED AT OTHER POSSIBLE SCENARIOS FOR TRIBAL ENROLLMENT, AND ONE OF THE SCENARIOS THAT WE LOOKED AT IS LYNN Y'ALL DESCENTS AND THAT SCENARIO WOULD RESULT IN STEEP POPULATION GROWTH OVER THE NEXT CENTURY SO GIVING THE TRIBE A COUPLE DIFFERENT OPTIONS TO LOOK AT OR WHAT THEY MIGHT USE FOR TRIBAL ENROLLMENT.

>> Eric: AND Mr. STRONG, THIS GOES BACK TO A TRIBAL MEMBERSHIP SURVEY THAT WAS DONE IN 1958.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE CONNECTION THERE?

>> YEAH, DEFINITELY.

WELL, I THINK FIRST TO REALLY UNDERSTAND BLOOD QUANTUM, WE HAVE TO TALKS ABOUT ITS ORIGINS AND THOSE COME BACK TO THE TERMINATION ERA POLICY OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, AND SO, REALLY, DURING THIS TIME PERIOD, IT WAS THE INTENT OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO ELIMINATE TRIBAL NATIONS AND SO THEY DID THIS IN A VARIETY OF WAYS.

THEY CENTER OUR ANCESTORS, MY GRANDMOTHER, IN FACT, TO BOARDING SCHOOLS AND HERE THEY TOOK THE LANGUAGE FROM OUR PEOPLE, THEY TOOK OUR CULTURE AND OUR WAY OF LIFE AND, IN FACT, IN MANY WELL-DOCUMENTED CASES, EVEN TOOK OUR PEOPLE'S LIVES.

AND SO HESE BOARDING SCHOOLS WERE REALLY THE START OF THIS TERMINATION ERA AND IT LED UP TO OTHER POLICIES AND ONE OF THE POLICIES THAT REALLY HAS BEEN EFFECTIVE IN ELIMINATING NATIVE PEOPLE IS BLOOD QUANTUM.

BASICALLY, MATHEMATICAL GENOCIDE.

THEY TOOK THE BASE ROLL IN 1958 AND BASED ON THAT BASE ROLL, THEN THESE BLOOD QUANTUMS HAVE SLOWLY DECLINED OVER TIME WITH THE INTENT OF ACTUALLY ELIMINATING NATIVE PEOPLE.

AND SO THIS BASE ROLE REALLY WAS CREATED AS A WAY TO ELIMINATE OUR TRIBAL NATION AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS DURING THE TERMINATION ERA.

AND IT WAS REALLY A BAD THING THAT WAS MEANT TO ELIMINATE ALL THE FUNDING REQUIREMENTS, ALL OF THE TREATY OBLIGATIONS THAT BOTH THE FEDERAL AND STATE GOVERNMENTS ARE MEANT TO COMPLY WITH.

>> Eric: OBJECTION.

>> SO I THINK -- JUST UNPACKING IT FROM THAT LENS, WE REALLY SEE THAT THIS POLICY IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WAS BROUGHT ABOUT BY THE TRIBE BUT MORE AS A MEANS TO ACTUALLY ELIMINATE THE TRIBE.

>> Eric: OKAY.

LET -- >> SO IT'S IMPORTANT WE UNDERSTAND IT FROM THAT CONTEXT.

>> Eric: OKAY.

>> Cathy: SO NICOLE, THAT'S GREAT CONTEXT THERE, SO I'M WONDERING, IS THERE -- WHAT WAS THE TRADITIONAL WAY OF DETERMINING MEMBERSHIP?

>> WELL, THAT'S ONE THING THAT WE'RE RYING TO DISCUSS WITH TRIBAL MEMBERS RIGHT NOW BECAUSE BLOOD QUANTUM WAS NEVER A THING THAT TRIBES USED, RED LAKE OR ANY OTHER TRIBAL AGENCIES USED.

LINEAL DESCENT OR OTHER WAYS OF ANCESTRY, WHO WAS YOUR PARENTS, WHO WAS YOUR MOTHER, WHO WAS YOUR FATHER, WHERE ARE YOU BORN, THOSE WERE MORE TRADITIONAL WAYS OF DETERMINING TRIBAL MEMBERSHIP BEFORE BLOOD QUANTUM.

>> Eric: MR. STRONG, WHAT ARE YOU HEARING FROM TRIBAL MEMBERS?

YOU'VE HAD SOME LISTENING SESSIONS, HAVEN'T YOU?

>> YEAH, DEFINITELY.

I HEAR THE MOST FROM PEOPLE THAT ARE MOST IMPACTED BY BLOODS QUANTUM AND I CAN SHARE SOME OF THOSE STORIES.

YOU KNOW, IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE HAVE OUR IDENTITY AND FOR THOSE MEMBERS THAT FELL BELOW THAT ONE-QUARTER BLOOD QUANTUM AND STILL DO, SOME MAY STILL FALL BELOW IT, WE'RE HOLDING THEM BACK FROM REALLY EMBRACING THEIR OWN IDENTITY FROM UNDERSTANDING THAT KNOWLEDGE OF SELF AND REALLY HELPING THEM UNDERSTAND HOW TO NOT ONLY BE SUCCESSFUL IN TODAY'S WORLD BUT TO DEAL WITH THE ISSUES THAT WE'RE FACED WITH AS NATIVE PEOPLE.

YOU KNOW, SADLY SOME PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITY ARE DEALING WITH SUBSTANCE ABUSE ISSUES OR DEALING WITH MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES AND, IN ACT, OUR IDENTITY, WHICH IS LINKED TO OUR ENROLLMENT, OUR WHOLE WAY OF LIFE IS LINKED TO OUR IDENTITY AND SO BY EMBRACING OUR IDENTITY AND ALLOWING FOR TRIBAL MEMBERS TO BE ENROLLED, IT REALLY HELPS PUSH THEM DOWN THE RIGHT PATH IN LIFE AND SO FOR THOSE PEOPLE THAT ARE MOST IMPACTED BY THIS, WE'RE SEEING A HUGE DESIRE TO HAVE THEIR CHILDREN ENROLLED.

SO OFTENTIMES WE HEAR FROM GRANDMOTHERS AND MOTHERS THAT THEIR CHILDREN CAN'T BE ENROLLED AND THEY FEEL LIKE THEIR LINEAGE IS DYING AND THEIR WAY OF LIFE IS DOING AND SO THIS CHANGE THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT WOULD HELP ALLOW FOR THESE MEMBERS TO BECOME ENROLLED AND ULTIMATELY LEARN MORE ABOUT THEMSELVES AND HELP THEM BECOME SUCCESSFUL ON THEIR PATH IN LIFE.

>> Cathy: NICOLE, IS THIS HAPPENING ACROSS THE COUNTRY, IN OTHER TRIBAL NATIONS?

>> YEAH.

SO WE DID A SIMILAR STUDY FOR MINNESOTA CHIPPEWA TRIBE IN 2015 SO THE OTHER TRIBES IN THE STATE ARE DEFINITELY INTERESTED AND MANY TRIBES ARE STARTING TO LOOK I THINK AT THEIR OWN ENROLLMENT RECORDS AND SEEING HOW THEIR YOUNGER TRIBAL MEMBERS HAVE LOWER AND LOWER BLOOD QUANTITY TUNNEL AND THEY'RE GETTING CONCERNED.

WE'RE ALSO DOING A SIMILAR STUDY FOR THE 12 CON IF I HAD RATED TRIBES OF KOHLVILLE RESOLUTION, WHICH IS IN WASHINGTON STATE AND OTHER TRIBES HAVE CONTACTED US AND BEEN INTERESTED IN DOING SIMILAR RESEARCH TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THEIR POPULATION MIGHT LOOK LIKE OVER TIME.

>> Cathy: THIS MIGHT BE A SILLY QUESTION TO ASK BUT HOW DO YOU PROVE SOMEONE HAS NATIVE BLOOD?

DO YOU HAVE TO BE TESTED?

>> THAT'S THE CRAZY THING ABOUT BLOOD QUANTUM, THERE IS NO DNA TEST OR BLOOD TEST TO PROVE, IT'S BASED PURELY ON WHAT'S ON THE TRIBAL RECORDS BEFORE YOU SO IF YOU ARE O.YOUR PARENT IS ONE-HALF BLOOD QUANTUM AND YOU ONLY HAVE ONE PARENT WITH TRIBAL BLOOD, THEN YOU'RE ONE-QUARTER.

SO IT'S BASICALLY CUT IN HALF EVERY GENERATION.

>> Cathy: OKAY, ALL RIGHT.

BY THE WAY, SECRETARY STRONG, CAN YOU -- CAN YOU JUST GO AHEAD AND CHANGE THE RULES OR DO YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE SAY OF EVERYONE IN THE NATION, EVERYONE IN THE TRIBE?

>> RIGHT.

SO IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE ENGAGE OUR PEOPLE IN HOW WE WANT TO MAKE THIS CHANGE.

I DO BELIEVE IT'S NECESSARY TO MAKES THIS CHANGE, IT'S BASED ON THE NUMBERS BUT FOR US TO REALLY ENGAGE ALL OF OUR COMMUNITY, ALL OF THE COUNCIL MEMBERS AND THE PEOPLE THAT MAKE THE DECISION, I THINK THAT'S REALLY THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THIS PROCESS AND SO WE DO HAVE, YOU KNOW, THE AUTHORITY TO CHANGE OUR OWN LAWS AND TO CHANGE OUR OWN REQUIREMENTS FOR OUR OWN PEOPLE.

HOWEVER, WE NEED TO DO IT IN A WAY THAT REALLY ALIGNS ITH THE WILL OF ALL OF OUR PEOPLE AND SO THAT PROCESS IS REALLY WHAT WE'RE UNDERGOING NOW.

WE'RE GETTING INPUT FROM ALL OVER COMMUNITIES, TRYING TO UNDERSTAND SOME OF THE CONCERNS BECAUSE THERE ARE CONCERNS WITH ADDING MEMBERSHIP TO -- YOU KNOW, THERE'S LIMITED RESOURCES, ACCESS TO NATURAL RESOURCES, MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE DOING IT IN A WAY THAT'S INTELLIGENT AND THAT OUR COMMUNITY AND OUR RESOURCES CAN HANDLE AND SO SOME OF THESE CONVERSATIONS ARE WHAT WE'RE UNDERGOING RIGHT NOW, REALLY MAKING SURE THAT EVERYONE'S ALIGNED WITH WHAT THE RIGHT PATH FORWARD IS AND ULTIMATELY ENGAGING OUR PEOPLE.

ONE OF THE WAYS WE CAN DO THAT IS THROUGH A REFERENDUM VOTE AND HAVING OUR PEOPLE SHOW US THE LEADERSHIP HOW THEY WANT TO PROCEED IN THIS MANNER.

BUT AS A SOVEREIGN TRIBAL NATION, WE DO HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DETERMINE HOW WE MOVE FORWARD.

>> Eric: APPRECIATE YOU JOINING US.

>> Cathy: INTERESTING.

>> Eric: FROM RED AKE.

THANK YOU.

THANKS, GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> Cathy: THANK YOU, NICOLE NICOLE.

♪♪ >> ERIC: WHEN WE ORIGINALLY BOOKED A TRIO OF POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSORS FOR THE FIRST SHOW OF 2023, WE KNEW WE'D TALK ABOUT THE NEW CONGRESS AND THE REPUBLICANS MOVING IN TO THE MAJORITY IN THE U. S. HOUSE.

WHAT WE DIDN'T KNOW IS THAT AS WE GO ON THE AIR FRIDAY NIGHT, THERE HAVE BEEN 13 VOTES OVER FOUR DAYS HELD TO ELECT A SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE AND STILL NO ONE HAS GAINED THAT TITLE.

IN FACT, UNTIL THE 12TH VOTE, DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMAN HAKEEM JEFFRIES HAD GARNERED MORE VOTES THAN REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY.

HERE WITH MORE, DAVID SCHULTZ TEACHES POLITICAL SCIENCE STUDENTS AT HAMLINE UNIVERSITY AS WELL AS LAW STUDENTS AT THE U OF M. THE U OF M'S POLITICAL SCIENCE DEPARTMENT IS HOME TO MICHAEL MINTA AND HIS STUDENTS.

LAST BUT NOT LEAST, CINDY RUGELEY HAS DRIVEN DOWN 1-35 FROM U.M.D.

WHERE SHE HEADS UP THE POLITICAL SCIENCE DEPARTMENT.

WELL, WELCOME ONE AND ALL.

WHAT ARE -- WHAT ARE THE DISSIDENTS' BEEF WITH KEVIN McCARTHY?

>> OH, WOW, IT'S ABOUT REALLY TRYING TO EMPOWER THE RANK AND TIME IN CONGRESS WHERE THEY WANT THE ABILITY TO BASICALLY CALL NO CONFIDENCE VOTES WITH THIS SPEAKER.

THEY ALSO, THEY'RE TIRED OF THE UNANIMOUS CONSENT WHERE A LOT OF BILLS COME BEFORE THE FLOOR WITHOUT REALLY HAVING MUCH INPUT FROM THE RANK AND FILE MEMBERS, AND SO -- AND THEN THEY'RE ALSO IDEOLOGICAL CONCERNS ABOUT -- THEY'RE FEELING THAT LEADERSHIP IS BASICALLY PUTTING THINGS IN BILLS THAT DON'T ADHERE TO CONSERVATIVE VALUES AND MAKING DEALS WITH DEMOCRATS AND THEY JUST DON'T LIKE THAT SO THEY WANT TO TRY TO EMPOWER MORE THE RANK AND FILE MEMBERS AND TAKE SOME OF THAT POWER FROM THE LEADERSHIP.

>> Eric: IF THERE HAD BEEN THE PREDICTED RED TSUNAMI, THIS NEVER OULD HAVE EVEN BEEN A PROBLEM, IGHTS?

>> NO, IT WOULDN'T HAVE AND I THINK IT SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT PERHAPS THERE IS A WING OF THE PARTY THAT LIKES A LITTLE BIT OF CHAOS, AND SO MAYBE McCARTHY IS ENTITLED TO A LITTLE BIT F CRITICISM FOR NOT DEALING WITH THIS WEEKS OR MONTHS AGO RATHER THAN SUBJECTING IT TO 14 VOTES ON THE HOUSE FLOOR.

>> Eric: WHAT DO YOU THINK, PROFESSOR?

>> HOW WOUNDED IS HE, PROFESSOR?

>> IT'S TREMENDOUSLY WOUNDED AT THIS POINT.

IF HE SURVIVES AND GETS THE SPEAKER-SHIP, HE'LL BE ONE OF THE WEAKEST SPEAKERS WE'LL PROBABILITY EVER SEE IN A LONG TIME, NOT JUST BECAUSE OF THE NARROW NEST OF THE MAJORITY BUT BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT ESSENTIALLY, THIS CAUCUS REALLY IS GOING TO HAMSTRING HIM QUITE A BIT.

WHAT I WAS GOING TO ADD INTO HERE IS THAT IT'S MORE THAN JUST SIMPLY ROUGHLY 20 MEMBERS WANTING A VOICE.

I THINK T'S WANTING A VETO AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT I THINK IT'S ABOUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, IS THAT THEY REPRESENT A MINORITY WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY THAT REALLY WANTS TO BE, WHAT, THEY WANT TO SPEAK FOR THE MAJORITY OF THE REPUBLICANS WHEN THEY DON'T AND THEY DON'T SPEAK FOR THE MAJORITY OF THE HOUSE AND THEY REALLY HOLD A SET OF VIEWS WIDOW REPRESENT ONE WING OF THE PARTY UT CERTAINLY NOT THE DOMINANT WING.

SO I THINK IT'S IN PART, AS YOU WERE POINTING OUT HERE, IT'S ABOUT PROCEDURE BUT IT'S ALSO ABOUT, WHAT, POLICY AND IT'S ABOUT VALUES THAT HEY CARE ABOUT THAT THEY'RE NOT WINNING ON AND ABOUT THE FACT THAT, WHAT, THE REPUBLICANS ARE PLAYING WHAT'S REALLY POLITICS.

WHAT, UNI GOSH EIGHT WITH THE OTHER SIDE, THEY DON'T LIKE THAT.

>> Cathy: I WONDER WHEN CONTROL SWITCHES AND IT WILL SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE, DON'T YOU THINK THIS OPENS UP A CAN OF WORMS FORE, SAY, WHEN DEMOCRATS TAKE CONTROL, WHENEVER THAT HAPPENS, THAT THEY'LL DO THE SAME THING, PERHAPS, OR IN TERMS OF A FAX WIN THE CAUCUS, FLEXINGS THEIR MUSCLES?

>> THAT'S WHAT DEMOCRATS ARE POINTING OUT THEY HAD A SIMILAR MAJORITIES OF 222 MEMBERS SO THEY'VE HAD THE SAME MAJORITIES THAT REPUBLICANS HAVE OW AND THEY WERE ABLE TO ORK WITH THE SQUAD MEMBERS TO GET THINGS DONE SO THEY WOULDN'T EVER THESE FIGHTS.

WE HEARD THINGS LIKE WE HEARD MEMBERS WERE GOING TO CHALLENGE INNINGS' PELOSI AND THEY DID NOT, THEY WERE COHESIVE, SO I THINK THAT DEMOCRATS WILL CONTINUES, LOOK, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE DOING AND LOOK AT REHABILITATION, THEY HAD A SIMILAR MAJORITIES TO WHAT WE DID AND THEY CAN'T GETS THINGS DONE SO IT'S GOING TO CONTINUE THIS OMMERCIAL OF THAT REPUBLICANS WHEN THEY GET IN CHARGE, IT'S ALL ABOUT TRYING TO OBSTRUCT RATHER THAN GOVERN.

>> Eric: WE DIDN'T EXPECT MUCH LEGISLATIVE PRODUCT OUT OF THIS CONGRESS ANYWAY WITH DIVIDED OVERNMENT AND THE PRESIDENTIAL CYCLE APPROACHING, SO REALLY WILL THIS MAKE MUCH DIFFERENCE LONG TERM IN WHATEVER WORK PRODUCT THEY COME UP WITH IN THE NEXT TWO YEARS?

>> WELL, IT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING TO SEE EXACTLY WHAT KIND OF DEALS WERE CUT, WHAT THE FUTURE SPEAKER GAVE AWAY.

YOU'RE HEARING THINGS LIKE THAT HE TALKED TO THEM TODAY ABOUT THE DEBT CEILING.

THAT'S THE BIG THING THAT I THINK EVERYBODY NEEDS TO KEEP AN EYE ON IS WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THAT.

YOU KNOW, THAT CAN BE UGLY.

THERE HAS BEEN TALK PREVIOUSLY ABOUT TYING CUTS TO SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE TO IT.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S WHAT WAS INCLUDED IN IT BUT, GAIN, I THINK SOMETHING TO WATCH GROWING FORWARD IS EXACTLY WHAT KIND OF DEALS HE MADE IN ORDER TO GET WHAT APPARENTLY IS HIS CAREER-LONG ANYWAY, IF NOT HIS LIFE-LONG DREAM.

>> Cathy: AND SOME OF THE CONVERSATIONS ARE HAPPENING IN CONGRESSMAN TOM EMMER'S OFFICE.

>> YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

HE SEEMS TO BE SOMEWHAT THE BRIDGE BETWEEN A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT WINGS OF THE PARTIES AND HE'S IN KIND OF A DIFFICULT POSITION BECAUSE HE'S, WHAT, 3rd IN LINE, AT LEAST EVENTUALLY HE'LL BE IN THIRD IN LINE, WE THINK, I SAY WE THINK HE'S GOING TO BE BUT WHO KNOWS WHAT WILL HAPPEN.

BUT HE'S ALSO THIS PRETTY GOOD BRIDGE TO THESE 20 PEOPLE AND HE MAY TURN OUT TO BE A MUCH MORE POWERFUL PERSON THAT BE NUMBER THREE LETS ON BECAUSE THE POWER THAT DEE INVOLVES FROM THE SPEAKER, SOMEONE'S STILL GOING TO HAVE TO HOLD SOMETHING TOGETHER.

HE MAY BE ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO HOLDS THINGS TOGETHER.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS -- KEVIN McCARTHY, HE'S HAVING SIMILAR PROBLEMS THAT PAUL RYAN HAD, JOHN BOY NEAR HAD, AND THIS -- BOEHNER HAD, THESE FAXES ARE NOT THINKING ABOUT THE TEAM.

THE CONTROL OF THE CONGRESS DECIDED BY 25 TO 30 SEATS AND SO THIS LEADERSHIP, THEY HAVE TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THOSE DISTRICTS AND NOT THESE RELATIVELY SAFE DISTRICTS THAT MANY OF THESE LEGISLATORS ARE COMING FROM.

>> I WANT TO THROW ONE MORE THING IN HERE, WHAT'S REALLY INTERESTING ABOUT THE DEBATE, IS THIS TRUMP VERSUS NON-TRUMP PEOPLE?

DONALD TRUMP HAS ENCOURAGED THESE PEOPLE TO REACH OUT AND REACH AN AGREEMENT.

WHEN YOU ALSO HAVE PEOPLE LIKE MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE WHO ARE SAYING AT THIS POINT, COME ON, FOLKS, WE GOT TO COME TOGETHER.

>> AND JIM JORDAN.

>> YEAH, JIM JORDAN, THIS IS LIKE THE OLD, WHAT'S THE PHRASE, POLITICS MAKES STRANGE BED FELLOWS.

THESE ARE SOME STRANGE BED FELLOWS HERE.

>> BACK WHEN WE WERE KIDS, THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE WOULD HAVE ALL KIND OF POWER TO BRING A PRIMARY OPPONENTS AGAINST A DISSENT OR CUT OFF FUNDRAISING BUT IN THE NEW FREE AGENCY OF THE CONGRESS, THEY HAVE THEIR OWN INKED FUNDS RAISING ABILITY AND THEY DON'T REALLY RELY ON THE SPEAKER FOR THEIR LIVELIHOOD.

>> RIGHT, AND AND YOU SEE THE SAME THING IN ALL KIND OF POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS.

THEY ARE MORE PERSONAL CENTERED, THEY DON'T HAVE THE POWER THEY USED TO HAVE, AND, I MEAN, IT'S DIFFERENT.

I MEAN, PEOPLE -- I'M NOT SURE THAT IT WAS EVER AS COLLEGIAL AS PEOPLE SAY IT IS BUT IT CERTAINLY IS MORE POLARIZED NOW.

WE WERE TALKING TO THE GOVERNOR BEFORE HE CAME IN HERE AND HE WAS SAYING, YOU KNOW, BACK WHEN I WAS IN IT, WE COULD GIVE UP TWO OR THREE VOTES BECAUSE WE WOULD GET SOMETHING IN RETURN.

THERE WOULD BE THE COAL ECO LYNN PETERSON WHO WOULD BROKER A DEAL.

BUT OVER TIME, YOU'RE NOT SEEING IT IS CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRATS, THE MORE MODERATE REPUBLICANS.

WE'RE SEEING LESS OF THAT AND IT'S BEEN DEVELOPING OUR TIME AND SO, YEAH, I MEAN THE SPEAKER DOESN'T -- NANCY PELOSI YIELDED WHAT LIMITED POWER SHE HAS VERY, VERY WELL.

>> THIS IS A CULMINATION OF SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR 350 YEARS.

THERE WAS SOMETHING SCALD THE McGOVERN FRAZIER WHICH WAS ALL ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, FORMER DON FRAZIER WHEN HE WAS IN CONGRESS, ALSO, BUT ALSO IN THE EARLY '70s, THERE WAS THIS DEVOLUTION OF POWER AWAY FROM THE CHAIRS AND AWAY FROM THE SPEAKER, AND IN SOME SENSE, I DON'T WANT TO SAY THIS IS A HALF-CENTURY CULMINATION BUT I THINK IT'S A HALF-CENTURY CULMINATION IN DEE INVOLVING AWAY FROM HAVING THAT DEGREE OF CENTRALIZED POWER AND TRYING TO PUTS MORE POWER INTO THE HANDS OF INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS ND THAT'S NOT ALWAYS GOOD.

>> I'M NOT CONVINCED THAT IT'S UNIVERSAL, TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH.

I THINK IT'S -- YOU DIDN'T SEE IT, PELOSI MANAGED IT WHEN SHE HAD HERS.

I MEAN, PERHAPS, YOU KNOW, McCARTHY IS NOT THAT STRONG A LEADER, PERHAPS IT'S MORE THAN JUST WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW THAT IT'S NOT HIM.

>> Cathy: WHAT ABOUT THE LAWMAKING NOW?

WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?

>> WOW, AND THAT'S THE THING THAT THE DEFECTTORS WERE GOING AT.

I THINK THEY'RE REALLY TRYING TO SERVE AS A VETO BY HAVING THIS POWER TO CALL A NO-CONFIDENCE VOTE IN THE SPEAKER, WHEN THE SPEAKER AND LEADERSHIP USUALLY HAS A LOT OF POWER TO GETS THINGS DONE.

NOW IF YOU JUST ALLOW ONE MEMBER, THIS IS THE ALLEGED DEALS THAT THEY'RE MAKING, IT COULD REALLY JUST GUM UP ANY TYPE OF COMPROMISE THAT THE LEADERSHIP DOES WITH -- WITH MEMBERS IN THEIR OWN PARTY, MUCH LESS THE MINORITY PARTY.

SO IT'S GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT.

>> Eric: CALL ON YOUR MICHIGAN ROOTS AND TELL US ABOUT DEBBIE RABBI NO, IT IS LONG-TIME DEMOCRATIC SENATOR NOT RUNNING AGAIN AND DOES THAT COMPLICATE THE '24 CYCLE FOR DEMOCRATS?

>> I SAW THAT, I WAS VERY SURPRISED BY THAT AND SEEMS THAT SHE HAS SOME PERSONAL REASONS FOR STEPPING ASIDE BUT SHE'S ALSO -- SHE FEELS FAIRLY CONFIDENT THAT DEMOCRATS IN THE STATE, THERE ARE QUITE A FEW MEMBERS WHO COULD STEP UP AND RUN AND MAYBE KEEP THAT SEAT WITHIN DEMOCRATIC HANDS, SO DEMOCRATS ARE FEELING-SHE'S FEELING VERY CONFIDENT ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC CHANCES BUT, YEAH, IT WAS A BIG SURPRISE THAT SHE'S STEPPING DOWN.

>> Cathy: DOES GORGE SANTOS STAY OR GO?

[Laughter] >> THERE ARE SOME HOLES IN HIS RESUMÉ.

[Overlapping Conversation] >> WELL, IN A POLICE CAR PROBABLY.

>> I WAS ABOUT TO SAY THAT BECAUSE SOME OF THE OTHER ALLEGATIONS ARE TRUE, WE'VE GOT BOTH A -- WHAT IS IT A SUFFIX COUNTY PROSECUTOR AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IN NEW YORK BASICALLY GOING AFTER HIM AT THIS POINT.

MY SUSPICION IS THERE'S GOING TO BE A POINT WHERE PROBABLY THERE IS AN INDICTMENT THAT WILL HAPPEN AND THAT WILL PROBABLY FORCE HIM OUT MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE.

>> I THINK SHE COULD START A POOL ON WHO'S GOING TO LAST LONGER, IT IS NEXT REPUBLICAN SPEAKER AND GEORGE SANTOS.

[Laughter] >> THIS IS GREAT.

GREAT STUFF.

>> Cathy: IT WAS GREATS HAVING YOU HERE FOR THE FIRST ALMANAC OF THE NEW YEAR.

>> Eric: HAPPY NEW YEAR.

THANKS SO MUCH.

>> CATHY: WE'VE RUN A BIT LONG TONIGHT WITH SO MUCH NEWS STARTING OUT THE NEW YEAR.

WE'LL HAVE OUR HISTORY QUESTION FOR YOU NEXT WEEK.

WE HAVE JUST ENOUGH TIME FOR SOME SHOW-CLOSING MUSIC.

IT WAS THIS WEEK BACK IN 2007 THAT THE LATE GREAT WILLIE MURPHY JOINED US IN STUDIO B. OH, WILLIE, WHAT A CHARACTER.

TAKE A LISTEN AND WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

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