(Music) Governor Holcomb visits Ukraine.

Jennifer McCormick proposes ethics reform.

Plus, vaccination rates are falling and more from the television studios at wfyi.

It's Indiana Week In Review.

For the week ending September 6th, 2024.

Indiana Week in Review is made possible by the supporters of Indiana Public broadcasting stations.

This week, Governor Eric Holcomb was in Ukraine meeting with the president and prime minister to bolster ties between Indiana and the European nation.

Holcomb is the first governor to visit Ukraine since Russia's full scale invasion began two years ago.

Holcomb's visit includes the signing of a memorandum of understanding between Indiana and a Ukrainian province.

The governor says it formalizes relationships and academic, economic and cultural sectors.

Life has to go on and that requires partnerships and that requires trusted, allies working together.

Even in a time of war.

Holcomb's visit comes as leaders in his party have criticized ongoing U.S.A. Ukraine.

But Holcomb says if Ukraine falls to Russia, who will be next?

The price of peace now, will pale in comparison, to the cost of an ongoing and wider, war.

Holcomb says his visit was inspired in part by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyys meeting with the National Governors Association earlier this year.

How important is Governor Holcomb's show of support for Ukraine?

It's the first question for our Indiana Week in Review panel.

Democrat Phyllis Schrock, Republican Jennifer Hollowell, Jon Schwantes, host of Indiana lawmakers.

And Niki Kelley, editor in chief of the Indiana Capitol Chronicle.

I'm Indiana Public Broadcasting Statehouse bureau chief Brandon Smith.

Elise, how important was this visit?

I think the thing that probably made it most important is the fact that he's the first governor, right?

I'm not sure.

Like the president of Ukraine is waking up in the middle of the night going, where is Indiana on this?

But that doesn't make this type of visit any less important.

I'm not trying to, you know, I'm not trying to say it's not important.

I think, any time that we can talk to the importance of democracy, the freedom to, where people can live their fully liberated life, that's something we want as Hoosiers.

The freedom to, live our lives in a healthy way, to love who we love.

to have the type of medical care that we deserve.

That's important.

So I think, you know, the fact that he is there is good.

And, I agree, like the price of peace is is an important thing.

obviously the importance lending to the fact that he was the first governor to go over opening up, hopefully opening the door for others to to also bolster ties.

But how important, too, was it that he is a Republican at a time when many Republicans are saying no more aid to Ukraine?

Well, I think it's really meaningful.

And I'm I'm glad that, I'm glad that he did it.

I think it's a another solid example of Governor Holcomb's leadership.

And, you know, I don't feel like there should be a question as to whether or not we stand with Ukraine.

And so, I think it's good that he's leading on that.

And also, you know, Indiana has a role on the global stage.

We have a lot of, global ties and economic interests.

And so I think anything that we can do to be hopeful and supportive in that way and making a statement is important.

And I'm glad he did.

the tenor to a lot of the things that Governor Holcomb does now, as it is with any governor who's at the end of their term, is well, how much can you promise?

How much will last when you are gone?

we know that Jennifer McCormick stands strongly with Ukraine.

She talked about that this week.

She was supportive of what the governor did and said it's important to do things like that.

I don't know what Donald Rainwater thinks about Ukraine or aid to that country.

Mike Braun is on the record.

Is voting against further aid to Ukraine.

Can these relationships, will these relationships extend beyond Eric Holcomb's tenure as governor?

Well, the governor pointed out that the memorandum of understanding that was signed is essentially good until it expires with the end of his term in the governor's office.

Presumably, his hope is and, the hope on the part of the of his administration is that his successor would pick up the torch and carry it.

It is interesting that you know how much we have changed in the past decade or generation, saying, you know, the Jennifer McCormick is staunchly in support of international the US intervention or involvement and support in Ukraine at a time when the Republican is not.

that's certainly a departure from traditional Republican, thinking on international affairs and international policy and is indicative of where the party it stands now vis-a-vis the past that also, as has been noted, makes it significant that Eric Holcomb was willing to stray from some in his party to to make a statement.

You know, he was the first governor.

And for anyone who has seen the photograph, sorry, radio listeners, he's also the tallest governor.

I believe that ever, maybe has gone there.

He definitely was not recruiting for, the Pacers.

at least not at the prime minister level.

the this does come without a price tag, this this show of support for Ukraine, the memorandum of understanding.

Yes.

It encourages trade and these connections that could lead to money for Indiana and from Indiana down the road.

But at this point, it doesn't come with a price tag the way obviously the military does.

And so if Mike Braun is the next governor, because again, we know what Jennifer McCormick thinks.

If Mike Braun is the next governor, is it easier to continue something like this when it doesn't have the price tag?

I mean, I mean, that memorandum of understanding.

I mean, it's basically symbolic, as the trip was.

It's an important symbolism.

But, you know.

Symbols sometimes matter.

And I think this time it does.

But there's nothing in there that says like, Indiana has to do x, x, y, you know, and I think one thing the governor did and point out in the press conference was, you know, he was pointing out some ways that companies could help from Indiana in philanthropic ways, like with medicine and food production, things like that.

So maybe that will help, the most important thing or the most interesting thing I thought of that is there were certainly some people on Twitter and, you know, saying, good for him.

Great.

I was very intrigued by the number of people who were absolutely silent about it, who are high up in the Republican Party.

One thing that might enhance the shelf life of this memorandum is the fact that Indiana and Ukraine already have, as as has been noted, strong ties.

The former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine was a product of some of the educational programing at IU, and in fact, the current Ukrainian ambassador to the United States is a graduate of the O'Neill School at Indiana University.

so hope my tickets are waiting for me at the football game.

But know there's there are, there are.

She knows Indiana and yeah, their time.

Their time.

It's more than just an arch.

She didn't they didn't have online courses probably when she got her masters.

All right.

Time now for viewer feedback.

Each week we post an unscientific online poll question.

And this week's question is, should the U.S. continue to provide aid to Ukraine?

A yes or B no?

Last week, we asked you whether private schools that receive voucher dollars should be held to the same academic accountability standards as public schools.

A bit of a spike in the number of responses, not a huge one, but 98% of those who responded said yes.

2% said no.

If you'd like to take part in the poll, go to wfyi.org/iwir and look for the poll.

Democratic gubernatorial candidate Jennifer McCormick says one of the state's highest priorities should be ensuring Hoosiers trust their government.

And McCormick is proposing a series of ethics reforms to accomplish that.

McCormick's plan includes a ban on lobbyists giving gifts of any value to lawmakers or state officials.

They're there to advocate.

It shouldn't be an entertainment system, and I've watched too often where people get real comfortable and and and taking some big gifts.

McCormick also wants state officials to have to wait at least three years after leaving government before they can lobby the state.

The current waiting period is one year, and she proposes creating a sexual harassment reporting system at the Indiana Inspector General's office.

There, she wants people to be able to report harassment by any government official or lawmaker, state or local.

There's got to be a mechanism in which someone feel safe to even report, so reporting it to the inspector general would be step one to that reporting mechanism.

McCormick says investigations themselves would be treated separately, in part because the inspector general's office has no authorit Jennifer Hollowell.

This isn't something that I feel like it's talked about very often on elections, but does Indiana need this kind of reform?

Well, I think first of all, I think that disclosure and transparency and accountability are all incredibly important.

we all agree on that.

I think Indiana has a pretty solid record on all of these things.

some of the proposals with regard to like lobbying expenses, gifts, we already are required to report all lobbying expenses and gifts.

So all of that is reported multiple times a year.

And thanks to Capital Chronicles and other, outlets, you know, they scrutinize those reports and make them accessible to the public.

So you know what's going on.

You know who's contributed, you know what's going on.

so then you can make your determinations.

I think that's what's most important, that we have access to the information.

I did think one thing was interesting.

The proposal to have all of the counties include local, you know, county candidate campaign finance reports into the state system so that everyone has access to this.

As someone who has tried to, obtain campaign finance records for, like, candidates for mayor or commissioner around the state, there are a lot of counties that don't provide them online.

And you have to drive to Lake County or drive somewhere and have copies made and pay for them.

And what people are reporting changes a little bit, right, based on the county.

I do think it could be nice to have one statewide system for that.

I don't know what the appetite for that is, though, because it would certainly cost the state more money, would have to increase the budget for Secretary State's office and I don't know if counties want that.

yeah.

So, you know, and lastly, sorry, on the on the sexual harassment proposal, I absolutely believe that we need some mechanism for reporting.

I don't know that it's practical to have local allegations reported to the state inspector general and how that would all work.

Yeah.

Frankly, it's just really frustrating to me that it's 2024 and we still have to have these conversations.

Just about the reporting.

People, the reporting side, and that people still don't know what is and what is not appropriate behavior.

And so I think we need training at every level of government on that.

I want to stay on the sexual harassment, reporting system that McCormick talked about, because I think that's the one of the biggest parts of this.

Does it make sense to you to have somebody who got sexually harassed by the mayor of a small town reporting that to the state inspector general?

I, I think that it has to be as independent as possible.

I think that is a mechanism we have now.

I think that, Jennifer McCormick is right in line with where I'd like to see this go, which is trying to create that independent mechanism.

Personally, I'd like to see it go further.

I'd like to see an ombudsman that was created.

If we can create a quasi public agency to do our economic development, why not create that type of agency to protect our employees, our public employees?

Because what we're seeing right now, we've we're seeing it right now with the hogs that cook scandal in the, in our capital city.

is there is a lack of transparency on how to report things.

There is a lack of, appetite for and, alignment and how to investigate these types of, these types of misconduct incidents.

There needs to be a set way that we can handle these.

There needs to be, some type of victims advocate advocacy mechanism for people who come forward.

Because right now, what we're seeing is to get some type of traction or accountability is women have to basically bleed out.

Women have to go to the media to try and get some kind of accountability.

That's wrong.

That's retraumatizing.

It's harmful.

and it's really sad to see so I am really encouraged to see that Jennifer McCormick was one of the first people to come out and say, hey, this is a systemic problem.

We're going to try to find a systemic solution.

And then she made good on that with this ethics reform.

I think part of the lobbying portion of this is saying, I don't think Hoosiers are when they hear that lobbying is $1 million a session, industry, that they feel great about that.

So if we're not going to create the reporting and, a harassment fix, then we're going to take out the space in which it could happen at the state level, because that is also an area the statehouse.

And that environment is also not safe for women.

And we've seen that with Curtis Hill.

And it's kind of like, where do we report things when it's the chief attorney for the state who is one of the perpetrators?

So the reporting needs to be shored up, the investigation needs to be shored up.

And women or men, anyone who is a victim of this needs to have proper resources, and guidance and help through that process.

We can't just use the media who has been helpful in this case, but they can't be the reason that we have accountability is this.

Again, this is not something that's been really talked about at the state level before now, even even around the Curtis Hill situation where there is there was a lot of confusion over who do I report this to, who would address it if I report it to them in the first place?

And I can imagine that gets worse the further down you go, where it's more splintered.

So is the fact that we that the McCormick is really not starting this conversation, but shining a brighter light on this conversation at the state level, going to spur action in the future regardless of whether or not she wins.

I probably don't think so.

look, I obviously talking about Hill, talking about the Thomas Cook situation, and those were terrible.

And they did come out only because of the media.

but, you know, we have to remember, like, that's very central Indiana based.

We have the rest of the state.

And I just don't know that this is a massive problem statewide where we need a whole state office to oversee municipal government.

I just I think that's a weird, mix of authority.

I mean, I think local governments are elected just like state governments, and people will ultimately be judged at the ballot box.

I'm more a little more interested in some of the lobbying reforms that she suggested.

One was, extending the one year cooling off period between leaving as a lawmaker and going to in the state.

For a state official or.

A state official to lobby to three years, because, I mean, we have definitely I mean, when they put that one year in, I mean, it hasn't slowed down at all.

so we definitely still are seeing people kind of cash in on their state government experience.

And so that's I think an interesting one to have a conversation about.

the total ban on, on gifts, that she's proposing.

Indiana wouldn't be the first state to do this.

I think she said about a dozen other states have have instituted a total ban, as opposed to the limits that Indiana has, plus the reporting, it feels like a weird push and pull on this one for lawmakers, which is you don't want to be seen as saying, no, I want all the gifts.

But on the other hand, what incentive is there for them to pass something like this?

I think that that parts that on arrival, I can't imagine that Indiana would want to join the vanguard of states that ban, gives us all outright and altogether, I think the notion what is often the course that often is sounded at the statehouse is about transparency in that, you know, report it, but don't, ban it.

And then so much of the other elements are when you talk about an ombudsman and so forth, the proof is in the construct, in the construct of a position like that, because we have the public access counselor, which was supposed to serve a similar role until it was essentially not gutted but limited in its impact.

And one of we should point out also that one of the things this proposal would do is sort of put maybe some of the umph back in the, in the stride and in the in the opinions of the public access counselor for Hoosiers who are trying to access meetings and information that just rightly, there's.

All right.

Well, vaccination rates for Indiana toddlers have fallen significantly since their pre-pandemic levels.

And the side effects, public side effects, public media has been, Thorpe reports.

Some health experts worry that growing distrust of vaccines is partly behind that drop.

Before the pandemic.

Some 70% of Indiana children had.

Received the recommended.

Vaccines by 35 months.

The state recommends vaccines for things like polio, measles and mumps.

But so far in 2024, just a little over half of.

Indiana children in that age group have received their recommended vaccines.

Doctor Shannon Dillon is a pediatrician at Riley Children's Health.

She says those numbers are concerning.

so we're definitely starting to see, you know, some of the vaccine hesitancy that develops around the Covid vaccine spreading over into routine childhood vaccines.

Dillon says most vaccines require roughly 80 to 90% uptake in order to be.

Protective against the spread of a disease.

Niki's Niki Kelly.

Im really reading the teleprompter well today.

Niki Kelly, how serious can this become?

Oh, I mean, obviously it has you know, potential of of children dying.

I mean, some of these diseases are fatal if we allow them to, you know, gain a foothold again in society.

And look, I understood back during Covid 19, I completely got that some people were uncomfortable with the speed, with the lack of full testing like we were.

We were reacting on a dime, right.

And we had to take chances.

But calling into question, you know, long term vaccinations that have been taken by hundreds of millions of people for for decades.

You know, I just don't think that that's good for society.

I don't understand it.

we're already starting to see some of these diseases pop up more, and it's only going to grow.

I did note that, Michael Beckwith, the lieutenant governor candidate on the Republican side, he had a media post yesterday really calling into question that and wanting to review school vaccination policies, which is, you know, a pretty big deal if you ask me.

Yeah, we have, we going into the next session, we have, serious, conversations that are going to be had at the state House about health and health care, whether it's Medicaid funding the public health program and its funding.

How can those exist at the same time that we're now potentially having a conversation about, well, let's just not vaccinate kids.

It does fly in the face of sort of conventional wisdom.

I mean, these are serious issues in the Middle East right now.

There's no agreement on anything, but there is a cease fire so that children in Gaza can can get inoculated.

I mean, we don't even have to stop a war here in it in Indiana.

We could just, you know, put common sense in the forefront and get kids vaccinated.

The whole debate over public health, it's certainly, it's long effects of Covid, you know, metaphorical sense.

clearly that created a lot of, skepticism, cynicism and anti sort of government beliefs, anti-science beliefs that seem to be here, quite stubbornly and don't seem to be going anywhere soon.

I've joked before, and I'm not being too flippant, the notion of public health, somebody should come up, you know, wordsmiths should come up with a different moniker because some people think public health is somehow some communist medical program where they give you the shot that, you know, get Marxism in your blood.

it's not we know what public health is, but maybe a rebranding would help.

I want to ask about the Michael Beckwith post.

obviously, he is an incredibly influential figure.

And if he and Mike Braun win will be even more influential.

what will it do to the state and its direction in trying to make Indiana healthier?

If someone like that is saying the things that he says as the next lieutenant governor?

Well, I guess a couple of things.

One, Indiana already has poor public health outcomes.

Right.

So I think that that is what.

Sparked the.

That is important backdrop years ago.

and we have seen vaccines eradicate diseases like so I completely understand the kind of frustration and distrust around some of the Covid requirements as people were learning all through the process.

And so and so I see why that has kind of sparked some of this.

But I think it is I think it is dangerous.

I think, I mean, I think Senator Braun is going to be, as governor, a strong leader, for kind of common sense solutions.

And, and so I have, you know, faith and trust in that.

And, you know, I think there are always going to be other conversations that folks have along the way.

But I think a majority of Hoosiers, believe in these kind of commonsense vaccines for children and others and will continue to if.

You're looking for good news about the future, these vaccination rates certainly aren't telling you that story.

But because they do reflect a growing distrust among the wider public about vaccines in general, and certainly things that the government might mandate.

But at the same time, against that same backdrop, we did have the legislature step up in a big way in a huge bipartisan way for the public health funding program that Governor Holcomb, created a couple of years ago.

And there's, I think, a strong appetite to not just continue that, but even to grow it.

So in that sense, what do you expect from the legislature next session?

Are we going to see the things that might come back with wants, or is it a bulwark against some of that?

Well, it depends who's at the top.

Is it someone who's going to have an impediment towards the education of what these vaccines can do?

Or is it someone who can go full on and attacking this problem?

And you you see a clear delineation with whether or not you have a Ron Beckwith or, McCormick.

Good.

An administration.

I will also say that this isn't just public health.

We're trying to address chronic absenteeism.

And when you have a lower vaccination rate and you have children going or trying to go to school, but getting sick, that also perpetuates things that are far outside of, just public health.

It affects whether or not they can get to their daycare, which affects whether or not, their parents, their parents can get to one of their jobs.

this is a large issue.

And anyone who would erode, common sense science and let science be science is eroding just more than public health.

They're eroding economic development and just Hoosier families being able to thrive and live.

Finally, state, local and national officials unveiled a statue this week of Richard Lugar, Indiana's former U.S.

Senator Jennifer Hollowell.

What was Richard Lugar greatest accomplishments?

And we don't have a lot of time, despite the fact that we could fill the whole show, right?

Certainly.

Well, certainly everyone, I think, would say the proliferation of, nuclear weapons and disarmament from the Nunn-Lugar Act.

But but we have to say, I mean, he was a statesman.

He was a really thoughtful leader who, believed in civility and, you know, always kind of exuded optimism and positivity and all the things that would help lift people up together.

And I think that's important.

Do you think that Lugar spirit is still alive in Indiana?

I think it is for some of us.

I mean, Senator Lugar gave me my first opportunity as a young person in the, Lugar Youth Symposium.

It was a bipartisan opportunity for young people to really get engaged with the process.

and I got chosen to do that as a sophomore in high school, and it has impacted me.

Right.

That's Indiana Week in Review for this week.

Our panel is Democrat Elise Schrock, Republican Jennifer Hollowell, Jon Schwantes of Indiana Lawmakers and Niki Kelly of the Indiana Capitol Chronicle.

You can find Indiana Week In Reviews podcast and episodes at wfyi.org/iwir or on the PBS app.

I'm Brandon Smith of Indiana Public Broadcasting.

Join us next time, because a lot can happen in an Indiana week.

(Music) The opinions expressed are solely those of the panelists.

Indiana Week in Review is a WFYI production in association with Indiana's public broadcasting stations.