[Music] - Welcome to the Aaron Harber Show.

My special guest today is Governor Jared Polis.

Governor, thank you so much for being here today.

- It's great to see you again, Aaron, and it's great to be on the show.

- Okay, well, where's Gia?

- Oh my gosh.

Did I bring Gia for the last one?

I think I did.

- Well, we were at the mansion.

- That's right, that's right.

She's a great little lap dog.

She's doing great.

We have a very dog friendly office at the Capitol, so a lot of our folks always bring in their dogs, and it's fun.

- All right, you'll bring her next time.

- I'll make sure to do it.

- All right, you know, you've been in office for five years, basically.

When you look back already, you've got-- I know we're gonna talk about what you're gonna be looking ahead to as well, but when you when you look back, what are some of the accomplishments that you're most proud of?

- Well, certainly, there's those crisis moments.

I mean, the fires of 2020.

We had the three largest wildfires in the entire history of Colorado in one year.

The global pandemic.

Not just the disease part of it, but then the economic aftermath that affected global supply chains.

You recall hard to get things for a long time.

Construction material cost, inflation.

That was the backdrop of the last few years.

Colorado has come through stronger and better than most.

I'm very proud of that.

We have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country.

We had a very strong economy record surpluses.

So, and we're really upped the bar on fire preparation as well, given that this is, in many ways, the new normal with climate change and the ongoing drought that has affected much of our state.

We've really added capacity.

Firehawk helicopters, aerial capacity, mitigation.

And amidst that backdrop, I focused on my priorities, what I said I would do when I ran for governor, which is universal preschool and kindergarten for every kid.

And we got full-day kindergarten free my first year.

Preschool starts this year.

Kids are back.

It's going great.

44% more kids are going to preschool, Aaron, this year because it doesn't cost money, and that's a big deal because those are all families that wanted preschool and couldn't have afforded it before.

Saving people money on health care.

If we get into that, we could do five shows just on that.

There's a lot of work, but a lot of reaction and fighting against it, but we're doing our best and we're making progress on pricing transparency.

Colorado option, reinsurance, a number of other areas.

The move to renewable energy is very exciting.

And we've cut the income tax twice, and we hope to cut the property tax this November with Prop HH.

- All right, we'll talk about all that.

What about when you look to the next three years?

If there was one accomplishment that you would like to achieve, what would be number one on your list?

- For the next few years did you say?

- Yeah.

- Yeah, I think that when I-- In running for re-election and just hearing from my friends and neighbors, but also business community, so many others, I think that housing costs are really the biggest challenge we face as a state.

In many ways, we're victims of our own success, Aaron.

Colorado is a great place to live, amazing quality of life, but the secret's gotten out, and that's why Denver metro area average home price, $600,000.

Boulder, $1 million.

It passed $1 million average home price last year.

So, this is a problem in our state, and people experience it in different ways.

Young families can't find a place to live, living further and further out, longer commutes, more cars on the road.

And we've got to do better to have more housing, especially the kind of housing inventory that's more affordable, meaning duplexes, triplexes, multifamily, starter homes, homes people homes that people can buy for $250, $300 because a lot of folks might not even be able to afford to save up for a $600,000 home until their kids are grown up and they no longer need it.

And then, they're you know they're on their own and they're looking to downsize.

So, it's really frustrating.

- Yeah, and by then it's a $900,000 home.

- It will be.

That's right.

And by the way, within mortgage rates and interest rates, $600,000 today is what?

40%, 50% more expensive than $600,000 three years ago.

- Right.

Three years ago, that mortgage was maybe $2,500 a month with you know interest, taxes, insurance.

Now, that is more like $5,000 a month.

- That's right.

It's gone up considerably, and so we recently did an executive order in this area.

We can't fix everything with executive order.

I wish I could, but we're turning around State loans and grants quicker.

We're aligning our state housing investment with thoughtful development.

You call smart growth, whatever it is.

What does that mean?

It means we want to have housing and build housing in a way that doesn't add to traffic, that in fact reduces traffic, meaning people should be able to live closer to their jobs if they wanted.

We need to really have better transit systems across the Denver, Colorado Springs metro area, which we're going to work on in the upcoming legislative session, and we need to focus on making sure that people can have housing, have stable housing for rent or for purchase.

- So one of the things I think a lot of Coloradans don't know is some of the roles you play nationally.

You were elected as the vice chair of the National Governance Association, and that's a Bipartisan association, or even nonpartisan.

And then, you're going to become chair of the NGA.

What are some of your aspirations there?

- So, I just finished my year as chair of the Western Governance Association, a bipartisan group of Western states.

The Western states focus more on land, water, fire issues.

Very bread and butter.

My initiative there, it was around geothermal energy, which has enormous potential across the West.

I'm very excited for Colorado.

It's currently not part of our electricity grid.

We're expecting to put the pieces in place where it will be several percent of our electricity grid by the end of the decade.

Reliable, low-cost energy.

With National Governance Association, this is the 50 states and the territories.

You know, Puerto Rico, Samoa, etc.

I was honored to be chosen by my Republican and Democratic colleagues to be vice chair and then chair next year.

I'm currently working with Governor Spencer Cox of Utah, our neighboring state.

- A Republican.

- He happens to be a Republican.

I happen to be Democrat.

What we're working on is the initiative about how to disagree better, meaning how can we restore civility and meaningful dialogue, like the conversations you have on your show, to a political world that has become very petty and more focused often, sadly, on attacking the character or the intentions of people rather than debating the actual issues.

Disagreement is fine.

That's the nature of the system.

Democracy is supposed to have a conversation and compromise about disagreements, but really trying to attack the motives or undermining people on a personal level has become too prevalent in today's America.

Governor Cox and I are really working hard with a number of grassroots events across the country.

We're going to be doing one here in Colorado, I'm sure you'll come and cover it, to really try to restore some of that authentic disagreement, and dialogue, and civility.

- So, that's a great idea.

You and I've talked a little bit about-- In fact, I know you, one of the times we discussed you're ready to jump in and be at one of these events, but we're looking at the American civility initiative, and the idea is similar.

If viewers go to HarberTV.com/civility, they'll see really just a web page with a description of what we're trying to do.

One of the things I found, including on the show, as you mentioned, when you bring people together who disagree and they're in the same room, the tone of the discussion, the rhetoric really is different, and people do tend to be more respectful of each other when they're not at home somewhere typing a message on social media.

- People sometimes forget yes, they're not entirely anonymous when they're doing their social media, but I think that's part of the new technologies have made it easier to kind of disembody and dehumanize the opposition when they're just words on your screen rather than the living breathing person in front of you.

You're right.

When you bring people together, they can have that conversation.

What is your goal in this policy?

Or what are you seeking?

Do you have the same fears, or hopes, or aspirations that I do?

Are there different ways to get there?

Those are the kind of dialogues and conversations that are meaningful and that we owe the people of Colorado and the people of the United States of America.

- One of the topics I really want to talk to you about and where you're, in my thinking, has dovetailed are workforce investments.

I know that's been a focus.

You put me on the Colorado Commission on higher education, and I've been really impressed with the number of Colleges and universities in Colorado, often with a little bit of urging from you, who are focusing on how do we make sure students are on a path to get jobs?

How do we work with businesses to make sure we're meeting their needs as well?

Talk a little bit about what you're doing in that.

- We have a couple.

A lot of innovation.

Thanks for doing that work, Aaron, because it's a very exciting time to be involved with education, workforce, higher ed.

One of the things we've done is we identified a number of sectors where we have severe workforce shortages, and as a whole in Colorado, we have two job openings for every unemployed person.

And often, those who are seeking work don't necessarily have the skills that they need to access those jobs that are available today and pay well.

We identified several sectors in healthcare, law enforcement, construction trades, and it's now free through our community college system to get certified as a phlebotomist, a nurse assistant, construction trades, law enforcement, EMT, a number of different sectors.

I think there's about a dozen or so where cost is no longer a barrier.

Sure enough, enrollment went up.

It's helping with that pipeline of talent, helping people get jobs, good entry-level jobs that pay well.

Many of these can go on to become more.

If you're a nurse assistant, you might want to go back and become a nurse.

Same with EMT.

So, they're upwardly mobile positions.

That's number one, and we're very excited about the impact on that, removing those economic barriers to people who want to upskill and otherwise might not be able to.

The other thing we're gonna be doing-- - The key, I think a lot of people don't realize, and I think we need to get the word out more, these programs are absolutely free.

- It's totally right.

It's a real free, as I like to say.

It's not just no tuition.

It's no textbook cost, no shipping and handling.

They always try to say it's only $9.99, but then there's $15 shipping.

No, it's no cost.

So, textbooks are free.

There's no hidden fees.

It's a real free.

When I was at community college Aurora when we launched this, there was one young man studying to become an EMT.

He said, "with the money I saved by being able to go for free to this program, I was able to fix my car to get to Community College of Aurora.

"” So, this is what it means for people who wouldn't be able to even get there or be part of this without removing that cost barrier.

The other thing we're doing, and it'll be really exciting to see how people use this, is every graduating high school member of the class of '24, this year's senior class, they're gonna get a $1,500 scholarship from the state.

It's more than just a scholarship.

It is a scholarship in the sense they can use it as you normally would a scholarship, but they could also use it for a lot of educational programming that aren't necessarily eligible for Pell Grants, and student loans, and a sort of a suite of federal products we have that make higher education more affordable.

You can use it for a skills academy, you can use it for applying it towards an apprenticeship.

So, there's a number of different ways.

We're doing a lot on apprenticeships as well, Aaron.

We have a very bold goal of increasing participation in apprenticeships several times here in our state.

We're already a leader, but it's a few hundred high school kids a year.

We want to be a few thousand a year, and we've really learned from what they do in Switzerland, and Germany, and other nations about how students can learn while they earn, can graduate high school not just with a high school diploma, but with a marketable skill that allows them to earn a good living and also the potential to be upwardly mobile through seeking a two-year or four-year degree.

- All right, we're already running out of time, so I'm gonna fire a number of questions at you.

We talked briefly-- - It's exciting.

We can talk about work force at education all the time.

- I know.

We haven't even hit healthcare yet.

So, let's talk a little bit about affordable housing.

I think one of the challenges a lot of people in the arena trying to solve that problem don't take into account is that because of the increase in value of real estate, the increase in the price of housing, we're taking what so many units of what had been affordable housing each year out of the market that we're not even coming close to replacing it.

So, how do we really address the challenge in a manner that meets the needs of thousands of Coloradans?

- So, it's not one thing, first of all.

It would be wonderful if there were some public policy silver bullet that would fix housing, but generally speaking, we need to remove the barriers that exist that prevent the kind of affordable housing inventory that we need from being built, and there's a wide variety of those.

They include things like tap fees and parking requirements.

They include things like zoning.

They include things like financing.

So, it's kind of a strategy that's comprehensive is what we are looking at.

My executive order was the first step.

We're looking forward to working with the legislature really again, focusing on the kinds of units that are inherently more affordable, meaning things like accessory dwelling units, multi-family.

We need more housing across the board.

We also as a state need to make sure that it's not further ex-servant sprawl that puts more traffic on the roads, worse air quality, less water efficient.

We need to be more water efficient in our development given the water situation in the West, and we also need to be climate smart and cost smart in helping people save money by offering transit options that are low-cost.

- All right.

I'm gonna jump to universal preschool.

So, we've had a rollout.

As you mentioned, thousands of kids now have access.

Some criticism where not everybody who wanted to take advantage of the program was able to.

How do we finish the pipeline so that everybody can be in it?

- Well, everybody can be in it.

I think it's we have 44% more kids that are in preschool this year because it's totally free.

There's still slots available.

upk.colorado.gov.

There's plenty of room, and you can enroll your kid in this January, December.

It's rolling.

It saves families about $550 a month.

I think what you might be referring to is that more people want full-time preschool, which is great.

If the biggest rap on it is we need more funding for preschool, we're all for that, but this is universal half-day preschool for every child of the state.

That's what the voters approved, and there'll be Prop II on the ballot this November, which will provide funding that will help us have additional full day for some students and make sure we can have a very robust half-day.

We're hoping to get the 15-hour week program to 18 hours a week over the next few years, and Prop II will help us do that.

- That'll make a big difference for a lot of families.

What about mental health?

I know this is something you've watched, you've been concerned with.

You've got a couple young kids, and as they get older, the challenges sometimes increase.

Seems like we've really kind of let a lot of kids down, a lot of young people down when it comes to mental health in Colorado, and my sense is that they've been much more greatly impacted than adults who have already been through a number-- We've all been through a number of crises by the time we're 40 or 50.

What's your take on mental health, and what can we do to help young people?

- Well, we need to do better for people of all ages for mental health and behavioral health needs.

We've taken some of the first steps in the state response by consolidating the mental health work we do in a behavioral health agency.

Certainly working to destigmatize mental health and make sure people are comfortable talking about it and seeking help just as they do for physical health is very important.

It's a dimension of physical health for youth in particular, I think we're in our third year now, and we're expanding it of the I Matters Program.

What a lot of folks don't know if you don't have necessarily kids in high school, every single young person, I think it goes up to 19 in our state, can get five free counseling sessions through I Matter Colorado, and that includes linking them with local resources, somebody to talk to.

There's been great pick up on that, and that's particularly important in areas where there might not be access to a mental health resource, where the kids don't know how to access the mental health resource.

So, just having someone to talk to who has the training they need to make sure that they can help the young person get through the difficulties they're facing is very important.

- So, speaking of young people, this is a topic you and I've discussed a lot when it comes through K through 12 education.

You've been a leader in that field.

You've established schools.

Some of the schools you've helped create have had extraordinary success, but when you look at the whole field and you look at the proficiency rates when it comes to our kids across the state, it seems we really are failing our kids.

What can we do?

Is our entire approach to how we teach kids antiquated?

How do we make a difference for our kids before we lose thousands more?

- That's another topic that we need a whole show on.

In 30 seconds, tell us how to fix education.

As you indicated, this is a big part of my background.

I strongly believe that in the benefits of early childhood education borne out by studies that have been done over decades.

So, what that means is the fact that a lot more kids have preschool now.

43% more went up.

It's universal.

Every kid can have it.

Kindergarten free full day.

This will have a profound impact in three years, in five years, in ten years as kids who otherwise wouldn't have had access to the early childhood enrichment, and academic, and social emotional skills they need to succeed the school.

Think of it from the perspective of a kindergarten, first grade teacher.

They were getting kids that had never been in the classroom before.

That took up a disproportionate amount of their time.

I mean, if you have three kids out of 25 that have never been to school before that are learning, you're spending your time on those.

If kids have been through preschool and kindergarten, you're able to hit the ground running in first grade, and those kids already have the literacy and the content level knowledge that they need to succeed.

So, that's number one.

Number two, obviously, investment and funding.

We expect in our next budget cycle, we're going to be able to fully eliminate something called the budget stabilization factor.

It's a fact of a debt that's owed to our schools, but what this means is the state will finally live up to the state share of funding that was promised schools.

What this means-- - Promised by voters .

- Promised by voters.

This means smaller class size, better teacher pay, which you're already seeing.

You're seeing many districts starting teacher pay $45,000, even $50,000.

You're seeing smaller class size, you're seeing enrichment programs in the arts, and music coming back into schools.

So, that's all a function of resources, and it's an area we want to continue to make progress on.

- I want to talk a little bit, because of your background in high technology, your take on generative artificial intelligence.

How can the state take advantage of it?

Who's thinking about that?

And also in higher ed.

I mean, you've seen the debate in higher ed, I mean, we're seeing in K through 12.

Should students be allowed to use AI, or what kind of guidelines or guardrails should there be, or limitations?

I love the way you identify these topics and we're like, these are whole shows, and let's talk about it for 40 seconds.

I gave the commencement at the CU graduation last May, and my topic was AI.

I actually had AI-- Chat GBT wrote my speech, my first half of my speech, and then midway through the speech, I said, "Up until now, it's been written by--" - All my questions were from Chat GPT.

- I'm sure they were.

My answers, too.

We can just replace ourselves, and go home, and sleep late, right?

This is the first class of students that had to grapple with that.

Not just students, teachers, professors, instructors as well on the grading side, on the content side, the cat-and-mouse game of figuring out what students have done.

So obviously, the societal implications and the economic implications are far beyond higher ed, but I think we are seeing it right now in higher ed, and it's having interesting real-time implications across our community college and college system.

I spoke to that as I said at my commencement address, and we will get you a copy of that as well, but it's really just in the early stages of figuring out how we can make sure that this is leveraged for the benefit of humanity and that we address some of the unintended consequences that can cause challenges and difficulties.

- Speaking of challenges, homelessness, an issue that you've seen, observed, been involved in, and trying to help.

We have a new mayor in Denver committed to really trying to resolve that challenge.

What can the state do to help Denver and other cities throughout the state?

- So, number one is housing costs.

No matter what cities are doing for homelessness and their policies, the single biggest determinant and correlation is high housing costs, more homeless people.

So, if we have more low-cost housing, less people will be homeless, period.

That being said, the strategies of mayors and cities absolutely matters too.

Our approach to Mayor Johnson, same with Mayor Hancock, Mayor Suthers, now Mayor Yemi in Colorado Springs.

It has always been hey, we're here to help.

Let us know your strategy.

If there's a way the state can augment that, can support that, we're happy to do that.

We don't have, and many times it frustrates us, we don't have jurisdiction to go in and do anything in the city, but we can absolutely help when asked, and that includes with resources.

So, we hope that Mayor Johnson succeeds.

We hope that regional mayors across the Denver and Colorado Springs Metro area succeed in significantly reducing homelessness and making sure that we can improve public safety across our major metropolitan areas.

- In terms of public safety, crime during the pandemic really spiked in Colorado.

We were unfortunately at the top of some of the lists in terms of auto thefts and things like that.

If you can tie in our correction system and changes you would like to see there where we spend a tremendous amount of state dollars on corrections, on incarceration, and also, and I know you're a student in all this, just kind of the root causes of crime.

What can we do to address those, and what would you like to see change in corrections?

- So, another goal of my second term is really to make Colorado one of the ten safest states in the entire country.

Again, there's no silver bullet, just like housing.

I wish there was.

You can't just do one thing, and all of a sudden, you're safe.

Comprehensive, comprehensive.

More funding and support for law enforcement.

Absolutely, and we're doing that, by the way.

Law enforcement in our state has historically been locally funded.

I'm talking about your local police department, local sheriff's department.

The state has stepped up now, and we're in the second year where the state is actually supporting recruitment and retention of law enforcement at the local level.

That makes a difference.

Laws that can better make sure that we keep dangerous criminals behind bars, and we increase the penalty for auto theft, as an example, we increase the penalty for fentanyl.

Depending on the amount, very dangerous, deadly drug.

Then, of course, what you mentioned with the detention system.

People are going to get out, except for the few that are there for their lives.

Most people are there for a year, or five years, whatever they're sentenced to.

We want to make sure we reduce recidivism, that they are less likely to commit a crime when they leave and have served their term.

And that means a variety of things.

It means the services they get within the walls while they're there, making sure they have a route to job training and could get a job and a stable housing when they get out, and the support that they need not to be a repeat customer, which is a liability to taxpayers and means that there's other victims as well.

- So, we've got 30 seconds left in the show.

Give me a final thought, a message you'd like to give to Coloradans.

- I think Colorado is the best state in the country.

I'm a big Colorado booster.

A lot of the challenges we face are because that secret's gotten out, and others have moved here and want to be part of what we're doing.

We're not perfect.

No state's perfect, but we're going to tackle our challenges head-on, have authentic conversations and discussions, take good ideas from all sides, and make sure we can move forward and make Colorado an even more amazing place.

- All right.

Well, I'd like to thank Governor Polis for joining me today and how he's been so accessible to Coloradans, especially via my program.

He promised Gia will be on the next show, so make sure you stay tuned for that.

And of course, we just came up with 10 show topics as well.

Remember, you can see our programs on PBS 12 every Friday evening at 9 PM and Sundays at 12 noon, and you can see our shows 24/7 on PBS12.org.

Thanks for watching.

I'll see you next time.

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