- [Announcer] Funding for governor's perspectives with Kent Manahan has been provided by NJM Insurance Group, serving the insurance needs of residents and businesses for more than 100 years.

Seton Hall University.

Seton Hall School of Law, and by Connell Foley, LLP.

[upbeat music] - [Kent] Will voters trust November's midterm election results?

Many historians and political analysts believe our democracy hinges on voter confidence in the electoral process.

Without trust people are likely to stay away from the polls, likely to question the election results.

And as we saw on January 6th last year, without trust violence could potentially erupt again.

There's a lot that matters for America in the midterms with concerns about inflation, the economy, voting rights, abortion, the war in Ukraine.

And for some of the results of the 2020 election voters have plenty of concerns on their minds as November approaches.

Former New Jersey governor and us Senator Jon Corzine has concerns too.

- Democracy is at its stake every time an election is up.

I think in the era that we live in because of how the courts have drifted and have decided to side with those who want to narrow the electorate.

I think it's very, very important that people vote recognizing particularly in Senate races, that they're making a statement about what they want to happen.

- [Kent] The league Supreme Court draft opinion on Roe versus Wade has thrust abortion front and center into the midterms.

Polls show a majority of Americans think abortion should be legal.

And governor Corzine believes the issue and the high court's decision will be a priority for voters in November.

- I think the issue of Roe V Wade is at stake in this election very clearly because if the ruling comes down that Roe V Wade is no longer wall or narrow to a very significant degree, then I think it's gonna be up to the Congress to really begin that argument of challenging that by writing new laws.

- [Kent] Before he was elected, governor John Corzine served as new Jersey's United States Senator from 2001 until January, 2006.

During that time he chaired the national democratic senatorial campaign committee.

He knows midterms can be tough for the party in power and has some advice and perspective for democratic candidates running this year.

- I think the most important thing for Democrats to try to convey to the public is that they know what they're doing on the economy.

People care about their pocketbook issues and right now, every time they drive into a gas station or go to a grocery store, doesn't feel good.

And the numbers are very real and it's undermining the credibility of their argument to the people that they're good stewards of the economy.

I think that instead of talking about build back better and economic policies that accompanied that program, I think they should take the capital gains tax increase and the increase in taxes that have been talked about for wealthier Americans and corporations, and put that into a gas tax holiday or a payroll tax holiday that would help middle class Americans and those that are struggling to make ends meet in this inflationary environment, have greater cash flow and be more secure.

And then sunset it as inflation comes down, which many economists and most people expect to happen, leave the taxes on so that we pay down the deficit over a period of time.

Hopefully the white house will help our candidates in both the house and the Senate by doing something that addresses inflation straight on, not secondarily, but straight on through the pocket books of the voters.

- Joining us now to discuss the issues in the Republican strategy in the midterm elections, former governors, Tom Kean, and Christie Whitman.

Welcome back to the program.

So nice to have you here.

Governors, let's talk about some historical perspective because I did a Google search on the midterms and they seem to follow a pattern.

It shows history back to the 1800s that the president's party in power loses seats in the Congress, in the midterm elections, kind of delivering a one, two punch for the incumbent president who's only halfway through first term in office.

Governor Kean help us understand why.

- Well, I think that people have high expectations for new president and they're optimistic about being of a term and even inauguration everything else.

And then the president almost never lives up to expectations.

There's always some sort of a problem problem maybe economic and maybe social, maybe anything, but there's always some sort of problems that develop and people get disillusioned and they figure, well, we don't like what he's doing.

Let's cast a vote for the other party.

So it just you're right.

It seems to happen every single time.

- Well, when you think about it, governor Whitman, is it the electorate who maybe likes divided government?

They think of it as a balance and power between the executive and legislative branches that more will get done in Washington if one is checking the other, but in fact, doesn't it often not happen.

- Now that's certainly what we've seen of late.

that would be what it tells you.

But in general, up until actually what the last three cycles, four cycles they got things done working together.

It's been, well, maybe it's 20 years away, that it really started to go down.

But I do believe it that it's true that people want to believe divided government is better.

You shouldn't put all the decisions in the hands of one party, but up until about 20 years ago, it started to be go down.

They used to be able to work together and get things done.

- Why did it change?

- Well, the parties we, as the American people started to get lazy and we didn't bother to vote in primaries.

And when you had it 10% turnout in primaries, which is what it was averaging until the most recent cycles, 10% percent of the eligible voters voted in primaries.

Those were the most partisan people and they tended to be more extreme.

So we got to the general elections.

And when Congress was the top of the ticket turnout, it's about 34% people are just saying, I don't like either one.

And they take the wrong response, which is I won't vote.

And that makes it.

It exacerbates the divide even more and more.

It means that the parties really start to just worry about what's coming at them from the right or the left, depending on the party.

And it gets more extreme and harder to work together 'cause you're always looking over your shoulder.

- New Jersey's primary is June 7th in this election cycle.

Primaries are important.

And as governor Whitman is saying, people don't always seem to understand that.

- No, and, and this, it was absolutely right.

- [Kent] That's where you pick the candidate.

- Yeah, this very hard right Republican party and hard left in a democratic party is coming because the average person doesn't vote.

So it's only the far right of the fall left votes.

And they're gonna elect the fall right of the fall left.

And if you elect the far light right in the fall left, they're not gonna agree.

They're gonna go like this.

And they go down to Washington and that's what's been happening.

And, but I do feel divided government is not a bad thing 'cause for instance, I don't think this president has talked to this Congress much at all and the Congress hasn't talked it back.

And if the Republicans take one of the houses, they'll be forced to talk.

Well, they get something done.

Another question, but at least be for forced to talk and hopefully get something accomplished.

- Well, the pollsters are predicting a good luck charm for the Republicans in this election cycle, the Republicans need five in the house, five seats and one in the Senate to take control.

What's the strategy to win.

What do voters deserve to hear about the policies in this election when people are concerned about inflation, the economy, the price of gas, the war and Ukraine?

- Well, those are the issues.

I mean, those are some of the big issues and you know but you've got to elect more than those five because both parties have about six or seven people in that party.

We're very close to nuts.

I mean, they're really so far over one way or the other that... - Liberal conservative.

- Yeah, they can't govern.

And so you've got to give the majority, at least a 10 or 12, sorry, majority is that allows them to govern.

If you have less than that, that far hard left group of the far hard right group can hold you up.

And that's the worst possible thing.

- But that would only be if you get those members who are centrist, because if you get a majority of nut cases and believe me, we have more than we should have running across the country.

I mean way out people, if they are in control, they have no institutional knowledge.

They don't understand the constitution or the rule of law.

It's gonna be very difficult for this country.

- Well, do the Republicans have a policy agenda in this election cycle that voters are going to hear about?

Or let me ask you, are they better off without one?

Are they better off talking about the big lie in the 2020 presidential election and aligning themselves with Donald Trump trying to get his endorsement?

- Well, that's what they've decided is the winning strategy is we saw recently in a couple of primaries, it isn't infallible to get Donald Trump's endorsement, but it clearly helps in those districts that are far to the right, the ones that have really bought into it.

And the scary thing for me, for our democracy is there's a concerted effort now you change the rules, you change the referees, and then you can change the outcome of elections.

And we're seeing this happen.

In fact, there are states that have passed laws that now say that if the legislature determines there might have been a problem in a presidential election, let's say they can overturn it doesn't matter how the vote was.

Even if the opposite party won overwhelmingly, if they can point out and say, oh, I think there was a problem here or there.

They can take it back.

The partisan legislature can take it back and throw out the election and give their electoral votes to their candidate.

- If Republicans take control in Washington, what's gonna happen.

- Well, again, first I think the president's gonna be for forced talk to them.

And that's a good thing.

I think the country will get a little more conservative 'cause the house will weigh that, that direction.

I think some of the issues that aren't getting addressed now will probably get addressed.

Overall it'd be a good thing.

I think as long as, and governor Whitman is right, as long as extremists and not in control, if the extremists get in control and who knows what's gonna happen.

But if a normal Republican majority with a democratic president, particularly a moderate democratic president couldn't get a lot accomplished together.

- Do you think there should be a litmus test for Republican candidates to come out and say just how they feel about what Donald Trump stands for in this election cycle?

Because he is so important to the Republican party candidates?

- Well, I don't think it's a litmus test.

I just think that any candidate running for office, the public deserves to know who they are and where they stand on issues.

And so it's up to them to say, this is who I am.

This is if they have a record, this is what my record has been and proven it to be.

I don't think they have to say I'm pro Donald Trump or I'm anti Donald Trump.

Take him out of the equation, tell the people what you're gonna do on the issues about which they care and you outlined them.

And I'd throw in climate change too, is a huge issue.

Particularly if you're a representative from the west where you're losing your water between lake Mead and lake Powell those are the issues that need to be addressed and they have got to focus on their district.

And whether that makes you a Trumper or non-Trumper, that's irrelevant.

It's whether do you fit with your district?

Are you addressing the issues that people want to hear about?

And I would say if there is gonna be a litmus test, the one I'd have is are you willing to work with people from the other side to get things done?

- Let's turn to the recent leaked Supreme Court draft decision on abortion and its impact for Republicans in this election cycle.

There was a recent Monmouth University poll indicating the vast majority of people favor legalized abortion.

How's this going to impact the Republican races do you think?

- Well, it's a very difficult issue.

For example, I've always been right to choose of you, a number of the Republican candidates and often it's right to choose with some caveats you are right to choose, but not in the last couple of months, 'cause then the science shows, the fetus is a real human being and they don't want to have it done then.

So is that right to choose a right to life?

I think it's probably right to choose, but with caveats.

So it's a nuanced issue.

It's not black or white issue.

- But so far we haven't heard much from Republican candidates and leaders in the Congress right now answering the question about how they feel about this decision.

Of course it's not final by yet the Supreme Court.

- That's a problem, that's a problem.

It's speculative at the moment.

By the time they run, the decision will be out.

- Yeah.

- And the resemble this one or won't, but we'll find out.

And at that point I think is when people are gonna be pressed to.

- So that's when Republicans should take a stand on the issue when I think.

- That's when they're gonna have to, they're gonna be pressed by their constituents because it is going to be depending on how it's written.

If it follows the track of what has been leaked, it's gonna become a very controversial issue because as governor Kean says, the majority American people and you mentioned it are pro-choice with some caveats, most people have some caveats I'm pro a woman's right to control her own body.

I'm pro-life because I love life.

I mean, I've got seven grandchildren.

I'm not pro-abortion, but I am pro fervently.

So a woman's right to control her own body.

But when this thing comes out, if there are no exceptions or if it's entirely left to some of the states, you've got states that are now proposing to criminalize a doctor or a nurse who performs or even helps a woman and gives her information on where to go to get an abortion and encouraging average citizens to turn them in.

That's not the kind of country I believe we are, but that's gonna make it a much harder issue for the candidates or make it easier 'cause you can say, look, I'm for it with these restrictions and that's that.

- We hear a lot about the future of our democracy and trust in this election.

So that voters trust that their vote will count.

How important is that gonna be in this discussion among the candidates leading up to the November election?

- It's important issue.

I don't know how it's complex and complexity doesn't usually enter into elections, usually black or white.

And how do you feel on this and very easy statement.

So I think it'll enter into editorials philosophical discussions and it's gonna be expressed it's important for a democracy, but I don't know how I don't think we'll get into the complexities of that issue, this election.

- Well, the Democrats certainly talk a lot about the future of our democracy.

Is that a concern for Republicans and voters deserve to hear more about that from their well... - Yes, Republicans, but I agree governor Kean.

I think it'll become an issue afterwards after the election, because if they don't like the results they'll claim, there was fraud and that's what we're building up to.

That's what this constant drum beat about the 2020 elections having been stolen is really all about it's to undermine the public's confidence in our electoral process.

- And get away from policy.

- And get away from politics just to say... - Policy too, policy agenda.

- Oh, we don't do policy anymore.

Many times, it's everything's looked at through the partisan political prism rather than the policy prism and that skews the outcome to my mind.

But this whole thing is to make it so that the public will feel if they don't get the results that they want, that they'll listen to those.

And we should be celebrating the 2020 election in the midst of a pandemic with an administration that had been talking way before the election, that it was gonna be stolen an administration actually that took money away from the post office to make it more difficult not you can't say to make it, but it clearly made it more difficult to get the ballots to the public, to get mail-in ballots in.

And yet in the middle of a pandemic, people came out and voted in record numbers and there is no proof in any of these over 60 cases that were lawsuits that were heard by judges appointed by Trump liberal conservative justices, that there was judges that there was any there, there.

- Well, it sounds like you're betting that this could happen again in this election.

- Unfortunately I am.

I think that's, what's been planning.

- Governor Kean, let me ask you about your son, Tom Kane, Jr. Is running in the seventh district for the congressional seat there.

He has to win the primary first.

He's favorite to do that.

And in the fall, if he does win, he would face the incumbent Tom Malinowski the Democrat in Congress there.

It's gonna get a lot of national attention that race because in the number of seats that the Republicans want to win only five to take control in the Congress, give us an insider's view.

How's that race going?

- I think it's going pretty well for my son, but it's it's early on.

It's early on, not to give a commercial for my son obviously, but what the Congress needs badly is leadership.

'Cause it hasn't got much and the country knows that and the Congress is very unpopular.

He's the only person running in the state.

Who's had a leadership training leadership experience when he was elected leader in assembly every time and the Senate every time.

And they stuck with him and that's what you need in Congress.

You need people who have the confidence of your party and the other party and can become leaders.

And he's had that kind of experience.

And I think that'll appeal to the people.

- And you need Republican voters to come out in the primary and in the general and given what happened last year in the gubernatorial race here in New Jersey, where the Republicans took seven seats in the legislature, do you think that more Republicans based on what happened in the gubernatorial race, they get the Jack Ciattarelli the Republican candidate gave the incumbent Phil Murphy, a pretty good run for his money.

It was a lot closer race than expected.

Will that help Republicans to come out to vote in this election cycle, in the seventh district and in other districts as well?

- Well, in general, I think people are finally getting the message that elections matter and that primaries matter.

I mean, it's the first time we've heard that I can remember, we've heard as much discussion as we have had about the importance of the elections and the importance of the primaries.

So I think people in general are starting to understand this really does make a difference.

And again, with that leaked Supreme Court potential decision, people are starting to say, oh, how did this come about?

And they're being reminded, doesn't happen in this state.

We don't elect our judiciary, but a lot of states do many states, if not most states do have an elected judiciary and people are starting to say, I guess it really does make a difference.

And of course the Democrats are hammering hard and I think the Republican should as well, that this makes a difference.

You gotta come out and vote because that's the beauty of our democracy.

That's what Ukrainians are fighting and dying for right now.

- Yep.

- Good reminder on that.

Of course this is a blue state, New Jersey is historically a democratic state.

Right now our congressional delegation, two Republicans and 10 Democrats.

It wasn't always that way though.

I mean go back to 2009, there were 13 house seats for New Jersey, but it was a more of a balance Republicans held six and the Democrats held seven of those seats.

What's gonna take to get the Republicans back to that kind of order in the Congress.

- Probably in part a map that isn't gerrymandered, we've got a bad gerrymander for the legislature, a bad gerrymander for the and it's obvious.

- Districts redivide you're saying based on the census, which was.

- We got a terrible system.

We have to pick a democratic map or a Republican map and both of 'em are bad.

And I picked the democratic map almost every time.

So that means it's a gerrymandered districts and the Republicans that have a lot more, have a few more congressmen that have a number of legislators.

If you had a fair map and you don't have a fair map, you should get rid of that system Democrats.

Aren't gonna do it, 'cause that seems to favor them every year.

I agree with governor Whitman.

I think it's gonna be a decent vote this year I think people under getting to understand more of the importance of the individual voter.

- Well, speaking of voting New Jersey has an early voting ability for voters to come out ahead of elections approximately nine days before a primary and a general election.

Is that a good idea in New Jersey?

- I think so.

I think anything that can make it easier for people to cast their ballot, and the interesting thing on some of the studies that I've seen is a majority of Americans would rather ensure that every legal vote is counted, than have their own candidate win.

The most important thing to them is... - Trust in the election.

- The trust in the election and anything that can make it easier for people and we had ballot drop boxes and they have cameras on every one of them.

So you can see what's happening and people should be reassured that they're being watched.

It's safe, they're not being stuffed.

They're no Chinese putting in ballots, which is what in Arizona they were looking for.

They were looking for bamboo when they did their fourth recount, they were looking for bamboo pieces in the ballots because they thought they'd come from China.

- But I do worry.

It gets too early because for, I would've lost.

- Yeah, things changed.

- Yeah, I would've lost because the campaign wasn't over yet.

If people had voted early, I probably wouldn't have been the governor.

- Explain that because this is your first election.

- Yeah, the trend was moving very strong in my direction.

I set off 30 points behind and I was coming up like this.

If the election had been held a week earlier, I think I might've lost if the held a week later or would've won by a lot because that's the way the vote was moving.

People were getting the issues, getting the candidates and they were coming to my side.

But if the election, if people have voted two weeks before I would've lost, so I'm a little sensitive to.

- But I still, I think that people would, if we do it, maybe not in the first cycle, you that's what'll happen.

But I think people then will start to focus earlier too.

It'll have that effect.

So the curve would start earlier.

- If they do focus earlier, I happen to think if election held a week later, we would've a different governor this year.

'Cause I think it was moving that way.

- It may take a cycle or two for it to get for people to really catch on.

- Let me just ask you very briefly from both of you pushing out to 2024, the presidential election in the past New Jersey has tried to move the primary.

So it's earlier in the cycle rather than generally it's in June and it's kind of over by then for the candidates.

Very briefly governor Kean, good idea?

- Yes, very good.

I tried to do it, both parties opposed it.

I couldn't get it done.

- Governor Whitman.

- A good idea.

- Why.

- We need to be relevant.

And because we are such a microcosm of the country with over a 100 different languages spoken in just one city in New Jersey, we represent just the panoply of what the country is.

And we're a purple state.

I would argue with you.

We're not just a blue state, we're a purple state.

So I think we are a good measure for the country where we'd come out in a vote.

- Well the midterm elections have allot at stake for voters and governor Kean, governor Whitman you've helped us understand why it's important to get out there and vote.

It's a privilege and we hope people do thank you very much for giving us your perspective.

- Thank you, again.

- [Announcer] Funding for governor's perspectives with Kent Manahan has been provided by NJM Insurance Group, serving the insurance needs of residents and businesses for more than 100 years.

Seton Hall University, Seton Hall School of Law and by Connell Foley, LLP.

[upbeat music]