- [Announcer] Funding for "Governors' Perspectives with Kent Manahan" has been provided by NJM Insurance Group, serving the insurance needs of residents and businesses for more than 100 years, Seton Hall University, Seton Hall School of Law, and by Connell Foley LLP.

[urgent music] - Promote the peace and prosperity.

- And maintain the lawful rights... - And maintain the lawful rights... - Of the said state... - Of the said state... - So help me God.

- So help me God.

- Congratulations, Governor.

[audience applauds] - [Kent] Chris Christie established his political career as U.S. Attorney for the District of New Jersey.

Appointed in 2001 by President Bush, he led a charge against public corruption, prosecuting numerous officials and prominent political party figures.

That record helped establish an opportunity to eventually seek and win the 2009 gubernatorial election.

It was during that first term, with high approval ratings, that some tried to convince Governor Christie to run for president.

He didn't, and in 2013, he was re-elected governor by a wide margin.

- Thank you, New Jersey, for making me the luckiest guy in the world.

[audience cheers] - [Kent] A lot happened during those eight years as governor, from Superstorm Sandy to bipartisan pension reform, a property tax cap, and ultimately, to a huge traffic tie-up on the GW Bridge, AKA Bridgegate.

Here's a brief look back.

- Thank you all for coming today.

I wanna thank the members who are here as well.

And obviously, I wanna thank the president.

We spent a significant afternoon together surveying the damage up and down the New Jersey coastline.

An effort by myself and the Senate president to find common ground in places where we could, and to reach compromise in places where we couldn't.

If I get to like 15 questions in a row, count 'em at home.

[Jimmy laughs] "Oh, he got 15 in a row?"

They're gonna go, "Oh, he's gonna go nuclear now."

- That's what I'm talking about!

All right!

- My presence in these places is to encourage the business owners and the residents here that tourism continues to get better and better in our state post-Sandy.

So listen, you wanna have the conversation later?

I'm happy to have it, buddy.

But until that time, sit down and shut up.

[crowd cheers] I am embarrassed and humiliated by the conduct of some of the people on my team.

I absolutely believe that Donald Trump is the best person on that stage to be president of the United States.

I have put every ounce of political capital I ever had on the line to bring about the changes we have made, and I don't regret one minute of it, despite the impact it's had on my political standing.

- Governor Christie, welcome to the program.

- Happy to be back, Kent.

It's great to see you.

- Good to see you, and good to have you here to talk about your new book, "Republican Rescue," and the insights and issues you raise here.

But I want to begin our discussion stateside, here in New Jersey.

- Sure.

- You were a two-term governor, winning your first term against a Democratic incumbent running for re-election.

Your second term, you won by a wide margin in a very blue state, New Jersey, one of the most Democratic states in the country.

- [Chris] Absolutely.

- Governor, my question to you, does the Republican Party here need to be rescued?

- Well, sure.

I mean, we haven't won now in two cycles, in two gubernatorial cycles.

That's never good.

New Jersey, despite how blue it is, as you know, up until Governor Murphy was re-elected this past time, had not elected a Democrat since 1970s, re-elected a Democrat since 1977, but they re-elected three Republicans, Tom Kean, Christine Whitman, and myself.

So there's a history of Republicans doing well, but they have to be certain kinds of Republicans.

And I think, I've thought a lot about this since Election Day this year, I think so much of it has to do with the appeal of our candidate.

And if you look at each one of those folks who got re-elected, elected and re-elected, Governor Kean, Governor Whitman and myself, while very different people, they all had kind of a unique appeal.

Governor Kean, as we know, one of the most thoughtful and friendly and welcoming personalities you'll ever see in politics, I mean, just incredibly charming, while also having a lot of substance.

Governor Whitman was unique as the first woman to ever get elected, and a woman who had run against Bill Bradley and almost defeated him a few years earlier.

She was seen as powerful and strong, and the first female governor in the history of the state.

- And during her term, from 1992 to 2000, the Republican Party held the Legislature as well as the executive branch.

- Sure did.

We got it before.

We probably could thank Governor Florio for that, 'cause we got it during his term, we got the majorities, and she held it during her period of time right up until after she left.

We lost it in 2001 with Governor McGreevey's election.

Look, I think you need unique characters to be able to appeal to independent voters, and right-thinking, in my mind, right-thinking Democrats in this state.

- Well, you look back to this past gubernatorial election just last year, November, Jack Ciattarelli did much better than the pundits and pollsters could have predicted, a much more narrow win than was predicted for the re-election of Governor Murphy.

The Republicans also gained, what, six seats in the Assembly and one in the state Senate, knocking off the powerful Senate president, Steve Sweeney.

But what does the party have to do, really, to organize and to win elections, in your opinion?

- Well, look, we have to make ourselves different than the Democrats, and in material ways.

Look, I think Jack Ciattarelli did a great job in disqualifying Governor Murphy.

I think his ads regarding Governor Murphy's comments on, "If taxes are your most important issue, we're not your state," were incredibly effective.

They made people understand the import of Governor Murphy's policies.

- Those were Governor Murphy's words in an ad that Jack Ciattarelli ran.

- They were, and I think Jack used it very effectively.

But that's not enough.

- So what is enough, in your opinion?

- If you're a challenger against an incumbent, as I did against Jon Corzine, you first have to raise doubt about the incumbent.

Jack did that, and we did that against Jon Corzine.

But then you have to offer a very stark plan that is different than what the state's been experiencing, and I think Jack just didn't do that well enough to make up the 3% that was the difference in the race.

I'll point out one other statistic to you, Kent, that I think's really important when you're judging how this race went.

When I ran in 2009, we were always affected by the national mood, and we were in this race as well.

Barack Obama in New Jersey, his favorable ratings were plus 21 in New Jersey, plus 21 on Election Day when I beat Jon Corzine.

This time, Joe Biden's ratings were minus six in blue New Jersey on Election Day.

This is a race where we should have done better than we did.

I'm happy about how we did.

I'm not happy we didn't win the governorship.

But we've gotta do better, and we've gotta distinguish ourselves with charm and charisma, but also really different policies than the Democrats.

- In the primaries here in New Jersey, are the party leaders, both Democrat and Republican, but I'm interested in the Republican from you, are they just too powerful, in that they get to select the candidates and give them the line to run in the primary, and thus really doesn't generate as much interest in other candidates running for that office and in voters coming out to the polls to vote?

- It wasn't my experience, Kent.

I think they're pretty practical.

Look, those county chairman giving out the lines?

They're not giving out the lines 'cause you're their friend.

They give out the lines 'cause they think you can win the general election.

'Cause they know if you don't win the general election, no use in having you on the ballot, right?

So I think that as in other states where they have similar type of systems, we haven't had the same problems.

We have nominated, I think, over the years, really good, competitive Republican candidates, For the most part.

I think the only time in my recent history that you could say we didn't have a competitive candidate was in those early 2000s with Bret Schundler and Doug Forrester were not competitive candidates.

But the rest of the time, I think we've had very competitive candidates.

We've won more times than not.

So we've done pretty well.

I think the county chairmen and chairwomen are practical people who wanna pick somebody and give the line to someone who they believe can win the general.

- Let's talk about your book.

The full title of the book, "Republican Rescue: Saving the Party from Truth Deniers, Conspiracy Theorists, and the Dangerous Policies of Joe Biden."

Since you've written this book, Governor, have you heard from Republican Party leaders, from colleagues, from other GOP people around the country giving you an "Attaboy, you did the right thing.

Good for you.

You're taking on the conspiracy theorists and talking about truth."

Have you heard from those people that you've done the right thing?

- I have, from a number of them, and then there's some who whispered it, 'cause they didn't wanna be heard publicly.

- More whisperers than not?

- More whisperers than not, sure, still at this point.

But what I was doing in writing the book, Kent, was to give everybody else cover.

No one could call me a never-Trumper.

When I dropped out of the race in 2016- - You supported him.

- I was the first major elected official in the country to support Donald Trump.

I chaired his transition.

I chaired his opioid commission.

I prepared him for the debates in '16, and in '20.

But he crossed a line on Election Night of 2020 when he stood in the White House and said that the election had been stolen when he had no evidence that it was.

And that conduct has continued now for the better part of the next 15 months.

And I'm sorry, I can't support that.

I can't support leading the American people to believe that somehow this election was stolen when all the evidence, as I've laid out in my book, is quite to the contrary.

- Why are you the person to be the truth-teller?

- 'Cause I can provide cover to everybody else.

Yeah, if somebody who's been a supporter of the president's does it, I think that gives it more credibility.

If I was never-Trumper, if I were Mitt Romney, for instance, no one would believe it, and they would think it was just, "Romney never liked Trump, and therefore, he's writing this book."

Everybody knows that not only did I support him politically, but that we have a 20-year friendship.

And so to write that book was not easy, but it's absolutely vital for the future of our party.

Remember, Kent, the last time that we lost the House, the Senate, and the White House in two years, in fact, the only other time, except this time, that we did was 1930 to 1932, with Herbert Hoover, and after that, Democrats had the White House for 28 of the next 36 years.

So we'd better get to it and not take anything for granted, and that's what the book is about.

- Can the party survive if Donald Trump wins, or runs first and then wins, an election in 2024?

Can the party survive?

- Well, if he runs, I'm one of those people who believe that there will be significant competition against him.

- So I don't- - Do you think he will run?

- I don't know whether he will or he won't, but if he does, I think there'll be significant competition against him.

And I think it's very much a jump ball as to whether he runs or not, Kent.

The president loves attention, and he loves throwing that out there to get attention.

But it's hard running for the president of United States, and I don't know whether he wants to do that again or not.

But if he does, I think there'll be significant competition for the nomination, and I do not think, no matter what the poll numbers say today... it's like they ask you in the polls, "If the election were held today."

Well, the one thing we know is it's not.

it won't be held until Iowa, New Hampshire, two years from now.

So it will take some time.

- Of course, the question for you, Chris Christie, about running, I know you're not gonna tell us here, but you can, if you want to, [Chris and Kent chuckles] your intentions for 2024.

But are you out now, speaking engagements, writing the book, talking to people, are you raising money at this point?

- I am not.

I am not, Kent.

The only thing I'm doing, in terms of fundraising, is I'm co-chair of the RGA's fundraising effort, Republican Governors Association, I'm helping my former colleagues in a significant way this year, and I'm also co-chair of the National Republican Redistricting Trust with former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, and we're helping Republicans as they go through congressional redistricting around the country.

But I'm not raising any money for myself.

I don't have a PAC that I'm raising money for right now.

What I want to do is focus on getting Republicans elected at the gubernatorial level and in the House and Senate in '22.

And then, you know, a year from now, Kent, we'll make a decision about what we're gonna do about the presidency.

But right now, there's no reason to make a decision.

It'd be kinda foolish to.

- Let's talk about January 6th.

You write in the book about your efforts and others'.

Kellyanne Conway, a close confidante and advisor to the president, you were back and forth talking to each other, trying to reach the president to discourage him and to encourage him to make a statement on television to call off the terrorists, those attacking the Capitol.

You indicate you were unsuccessful in getting through to him.

What does that say to you about the mindset and the concern of President Trump on that day and what was going on?

- He knew what I was gonna say, and he didn't wanna hear it.

- Well, what- - That's what I've concluded.

I was gonna tell him- - What about the mindset of his, in terms of what was going on that day?

- Oh, my sense is he was enjoying it, Kent.

My sense is that he thought that those people fighting for him, as he saw it, was something that he was enjoying.

And I think once it got completely out of control, he then finally did make a statement, as you'll recall, to try to get people to calm down.

But it was too little, too late, and I think he was wrong.

He was wrong not to intervene immediately.

He was wrong to have that rally on the Ellipse and tell people to go to Capitol Hill and "fight like hell."

I mean, words matter, and words matter most particularly when you're president of the United States.

And I think it was wrong for him to do that.

But I'm not one of those people who thinks he incited the riot on January 6th.

I think he was doing it from Election Day forward.

And when you continue to tell the American people, "This election was stolen, it was rigged," It's gonna anger the American people, 'cause we care about our democracy and the fairness of it.

So I think January 6th was just the capper.

I think what was going on from Election Night at the White House forward by the president was very, very damaging to the country and to our democracy, and something where he put himself and his own personal ego, his anger, his disappointment, ahead of the interests of the country.

- And you couldn't get through to him at all?

- Not on January 6th, yeah.

- Because, you're saying because he knew what you were going to say?

- Oh, he knew what I was gonna say, yeah.

I mean, the president and I have known each other for 20 years.

He knew exactly what I was gonna say.

- Knowing what we know now about those who have testified and given reports to the January 6th committee looking into the attack on the Capitol, does it surprise you that Liz Cheney was the only Republican congresswoman, of course, she serves on that committee, was the only one in attendance that day at the memorial on January 6th, this month?

- I expected it, because I think it's become so partisan, Kent.

I think one of the big mistakes Speaker Pelosi made when she established the committee was that she didn't let Kevin McCarthy, the minority leader, put on the members he wanted to put on, because she objected to those particular members.

That's never been the case in Congress.

The minority leader, Democrat or Republican, always gets to put on the people that they wanna put on.

I think it made it more partisan than it needed to be.

And I think it extended to, and I, quite frankly, was disappointed in much of President Biden's speech that day as well, Kent.

I think that was an opportunity to bring the country together.

And did he have to say some things about President Trump?

Absolutely, like I just did.

But you didn't need to make the whole speech about that, and to have it be that partisan.

Joe Biden ran for president saying he was gonna bring the country together.

And I think the reason his poll numbers are as bad as they are right now is 'cause he hasn't.

He hasn't governed that way.

He's governed as a partisan Democrat.

His choice, but his choice are having political ramifications for him, and ramifications, I think, for the politics of our country.

- Let me ask you, are there, in your opinion, and perhaps you know, rightly, members of the Republican Party who would just like to be done with the Trump gang, the chaos, and the "Big Lie," and the conspiracy theories, just like to be done with it and move on, as you're suggesting in your book?

- Sure.

Sure there are.

And there are people who like to separate it, as I do, between some of the policies that were pursued during the Trump administration that we support, it's the tax cuts, or the regulatory reform, or of some of the issues regarding trade and the border.

But I some of the chaos was a little something that, not a little something, it was something that really concerned many of us.

And look, I think if the former president would just stop with the election stuff, I think he could help the party in the country significantly, and I've told him that.

I've told him that I think he needs to concede.

I think he needs to say to Joe Biden, he needed to do this long ago.

I think he should have been at Joe Biden's inauguration.

I think he should have welcomed Joe and Jill Biden to the White House on the morning of the inauguration, as we've done throughout our entire history.

And I think all those things, Kent, were lost opportunities to bring the country together.

And I fear that President Biden's going down the same path.

And all those things concern me.

And our party, I think, wants to get back to talking about the issues we care about, because I think those issues are better for the country than the Democratic issues, and that's what debate's supposed to be all about.

- President Trump is backing Republicans in any number, dozens and dozens of races around the country to run against Republican incumbents.

That just seems so counterproductive.

What's your thought on that?

- Well, I think in general, it's counterproductive.

I mean, I would look at each one of those races and decide whether I felt that person was worthy of support or not.

But I think what you're seeing, Kent, is that what he's doing is, it's vendetta execution.

If those people voted for impeachment, or if those people were not completely supportive of him in other ways, he's decided he's gonna go and try and make an example of them.

I don't know how successful that's going to be for him personally.

It's not good for the party, but I don't even know how successful it's gonna be for him personally.

I think whenever you put yourself ahead of the issues, when you put yourself ahead of the citizens you're asking to have the honor to represent, you may do okay in the short run, but in the long run, the long run, you wind up losing.

- You're very open about the approach from Donald Trump In terms of your role in the administration.

You write about it extensively in your book.

At one point, there was talk that you'd be the VP on the Trump ticket.

Chief of staff you were offered in the Trump administration, which you turned down, the head of COVID response in the White House, and so on and so forth.

I think you say that almost every job was offered to you.

But the job you really wanted was that of attorney general.

Why do you think you didn't get that position?

- Don't know.

- Is that the job you wanted?

- That was the one job I would've taken.

Other than vice president, the one job I would have taken was attorney general, because I think it was the job that I was best suited for, the job that I was trained for, having been U.S. Attorney here in New Jersey for seven years.

And I think that that was the one I would have been most enthusiastic about to leave my family and go to Washington, 'cause I think I could have made a difference.

Listen, presidents get to make those choices.

The president and I had lots of conversations about we being attorney general, and he never came through with an offer.

His choice, his call.

You know, Bill Barr, I think- - [Kent] Why not?

- He never told me.

He never told me why not.

- Did you ask?

Did you ask?

- [Chris] That's a good question, Kent.

I don't know.

I don't think I did.

'Cause I think that's kinda weird, right?

Do you really want to look at the president and say, "I didn't get this job.

You gave it to Jeff Sessions.

Why?"

I think with a president, or a governor, for that matter, if you don't get offered something, you move on, because it's that person, the governor or the president, who gets to make those choices.

And it was very rare that I ever had anybody ask me why they didn't get something when I was governor, and I think I'd follow that kind of ethos, so I didn't ever ask.

That's a good question.

No one's ever asked me that before.

But I didn't ask him why.

I just accepted it and moved on.

And as for Bill Barr, for instance, I've known General Barr for a lot of years, and I couldn't object to him being made attorney general.

Jeff Sessions, it was another story.

But Bill Barr, I think, was an excellent attorney general, and a great lawyer, and a very good person.

So I couldn't really argue too much with that.

- Does it surprise you, does it shock you, that recent polls are showing that about 40% of Americans think that violence against the government is okay right now?

- It does surprise me, Kent.

It does.

And it's on both sides, too.

I think it was 25% of Democrats said they thought that was okay.

Look, we're in a situation right now where, I don't know if you experience this, but Mary Pat and I will go to cocktail parties, and not as many as we used to because of COVID, but cocktail parties or dinner parties where politics used to be a big topic of conversation, and it isn't anymore, because people are so angry.

And you can't have a civil conversation with folks about politics right now.

That's an awful place for our country to be.

And I think that poll number is just another indicator of that divide that's in the country.

And I think the only thing that can bring the country together is a chief executive who knows how to bring people together.

And I was hopeful with Joe Biden.

I didn't vote for him.

But when he got elected, I was hopeful that President Biden would do just what he promised to do.

So far, I've been disappointed.

He's still got three years to figure it out.

But we need someone who's gonna bring us together.

- Do you think that Republican candidates this year can win in 2022, the congressional elections coming up?

Can they win without fully embracing the idea of the "Big Lie"?

- Oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

I don't think it's gonna be an issue in the general election of 2022.

I really don't.

I think that the American people sent a signal in 2021, both here in New Jersey and more particularly in Virginia, where you had Glenn Youngkin run a campaign that talked about eliminating the grocery tax and putting parents more involved in their children's education, in public schools, and growing jobs.

And Terry McAuliffe ran a race against him where he spent two-thirds of his money on ads about Donald Trump.

I don't think that works.

I think the American people want forward-looking campaigns, not backward-looking ones, and all of them have made their judgment of Donald Trump.

That much I can guarantee you, is they've made their judgments in that regard, and I don't think it's gonna affect the congressional races all that much, not nearly as much as the issues that are gonna be front-and-center, kitchen-table type issues in the fall of '22.

- So Chris Christie has about two and a half years ahead before 2024.

You say you're going to make up your mind after the 2022 election this November, and then you'll let people know what your decision will be.

In the meantime, you're traveling the country, you're talking to groups, you're talking to people.

You say you're not raising money at this point.

But if you run again, will you be better at that the second time around?

What are you going to bring to that effort the second time around?

- I mean, the experience of having done it before.

I mean, Kent, there's just no substitute.

No matter what races you've been in, and I had two, as you know, statewide races in New Jersey that, in this state, politics is a contact sport.

And so whether it was against Jon Corzine in '09, or Barbara Buono in 2013- - You know that in New Jersey well.

- Yeah, and so, but it didn't prepare me for running for president in the way that running for president actually does.

It is a whole different level of scrutiny, a whole different level of attention, on a whole different level of competition.

And so, having done it once before, there's no doubt I'll be better at it than I was last time.

I don't know if that changes the result or not, if I run.

But I'll definitely be better at it.

But it also, Kent, would be one of the things that would make me not run, because I don't need to do it to have the experience.

I've already had the experience of running for president of the United States, which is an extraordinary experience, but I don't need to do just for the experience.

- Well, Governor Christie, thank you very much for sharing your perspective on the insights that you discuss in your book "Republican Rescue."

We appreciate the time.

- It's great to be back with you, Kent.

Thanks for having me.

- Thank you.

- [Announcer] Funding for "Governors' Perspectives with Kent Manahan" has been provided by NJM Insurance Group, serving the insurance needs of residents and businesses for more than 100 years, Seton Hall University, Seton Hall School of Law, and by Connell Foley LLP.

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