♪♪ Scott: Former Congressman Doug Ose believes that Gavin Newsom has failed in his management of California, supports his recall, and wants to take his place.

Doug Ose joins us today to make his case that he is the right person to lead California.

Congressman Ose, why do you want to be governor?

Doug: Scott, this state is in complete disarray.

Our schools are not open.

Our businesses are not open.

Families cannot find affordable housing.

The fact is that the people who are sitt-— the person who is sitting in the big chair is in over his head and he needs to be replaced.

Scott: You looked at running in the 2018 race that Gavin Newsom first ran in, and you passed.

What's different today?

Doug: So, in 2018, as you... as you highlighted is, I did travel the state.

I looked extensively into every corner of the state, trying to determine whether or not it was possible to prevail in a-— in the election.

I came to the conclusion that it was not.

Circumstances have changed dramatically since 2018.

In 2018, we had a sense that it was going to be Governor Newsom that won.

We didn't have any idea how he would perform sitting in the big chair.

We now have two years of experience that shows us his abilities that changes the landscape dramatically.

We have a track record that we can draw a contrast with between what he said when he ran and what he has done since.

And I think that opens up a significant opportunity to change who sits in that chair.

Scott: It's interesting because I...

I hearkened back to 2016 in an interview, uh, that you did back then.

There was a really interesting quote where you said, "“You get to a point where you say, you know, um, this is wrong.

"” Doug: Right.

Scott: At the time you were 61 years young, and you said, "“I can see the end of the line, but I am done being quiet about things that I think are very important.

"” Uh, was that prophetic in some ways to the moment that you stand in today?

Doug: No, you... you and I have known each other what?

25 years?

So, I mean, you know, I've always had this interest.

I know you've always had the interest in public affairs.

So, I think that the quote from '‘16 is you do get to a point where you say, if we're going to do something about this, let's do it.

Otherwise let's move to the sideline and let somebody else do it.

Well, I happen to think I've got something to say.

I think I've got solutions to addressing the cost of housing.

I think I've got solutions to address how to deal with the drug addicted or mentally ill folks that are now are homeless.

I think I've got solutions to address what I consider to be a, uh, abysmal failure in terms of the curriculum that is offered in our public K-12 system.

So, I am going to speak up.

I'm going to do so respectfully, but I'm going to draw a contrast between, frankly, where we are today, compared to where I think we ought to be today.

Scott: Okay.

Well, uh, before... before we get there, uh, I want to go back to something that I asked your Republican colleague, former Mayor of San Diego Kevin Faulconer, on our show, uh, recently about how he or any other Republican, uh, thought that they could win in a competitive race, when based on John Cox's performance of only gaining 38% to Gavin Newsom'’s 62%, it doesn't appear that there's any daylight for a Republican.

What's your answer on threading that needle?

Doug: So, I'm going to let Cox and Faulconer make their own case.

And for that matter of the other candidates, too.

My view here is that, I mean, you know-— again, you and I have known each other for 25 years, you know I go at kitchen-table issues.

I kind of-— my first question is, can we get the policy right?

If we get the policy right the politics will take care of itself.

So, let's get the policy right.

Right now, the policy about closed schools in the public K-12 system, that's the wrong policy.

The right policy is, we should have in March figured out what the private schools are doing to protect staff and students and implement those same protocols in public schools.

That's one example that I put forward saying there is an opportunity for a different voice with better solutions to speak to the people of California and say, there is a different way to go.

And it's not... it's not partisan.

I mean, I go...

I go to the groceries...

I mean, I love going to the grocery store.

Most people still think I'm in Congress and they come up to me and I mean, my wife's gone crazy.

She won't go to the grocery store with me anymore because it's like a 2-hour trip '‘cause everybody stops me in the aisle.

They go, "“Listen, my kids need to be in school.

"” Or "“Listen, I need to get unemployment insurance benefits.

"” Or "“I got somebody living in the park across the street who's threatening my family.

"” Those are things that are real life issues.

They affect people's everyday life.

And I think if you talk to people about things that affect their everyday life, you propose solutions that are commonsense based rather than agenda driven, I think you can make that connection and win this election.

Scott: You raise an interesting point, and... and I'm curious just on your take.

What do you think is missing specifically in Gavin Newsom's leadership that a Ose administration is going to provide?

Doug: All right.

Let me... let me just ask you a question then.

Okay.

You-— you've seen me dig a ditch.

In your mind's eye could you ever see Gavin Newsom digging a ditch?

Scott: [Laughs] Doug: You've seen me ride a horse.

In your mind's eye could you ever see Gavin Newsom riding a horse?

I mean just simple things.

It's-— I call it the common touch.

I'm just a regular guy.

All right?

I've had a lot of success, but I'm just a regular guy.

I remember where I came from.

I know how I got to where I am, and I know that pathway is available to others if we'll stop-— if we stop limiting them with education or costs that's out of control for living here in state of Ca-— California.

Excuse me.

There is a pathway for every Californian to enjoy an appropriate standard of living.

And right now, I think, I just don't think Gavin Newsom gets that.

I really don't.

Scott: Now you talk about digging a ditch and riding a horse and all that sort of thing, and that you're a regular guy.

Um, to the contrary, some folks might say that you're part of the elite or aristocracy, particularly from this region, uh, in much the way you talk about the Sacramento elites that I assume you're talking about in... in state government.

Uh, everything from, uh, the... the successful career that you and your family have had, uh, in business, uh, within California, to the fact that from a philanthropic standpoint, you all have also been heavily involved in those issues, including, um, just for full disclosure that our community room, uh, is named for your parents.

Doug: Right.

Scott: So, um, when you talk about being the every man, um, are you sure that you really can wear that label?

Doug: Well, I'll tell you what Scott, why don't you come out and spend a day with me?

We'll just go through my everyday activities and you'll see how common I am.

I mean, literally I-— this morning I was moving rocks.

I had an equipment breakdown.

I had to fix the damn thing.

So, uh, I am...

I am very good at what I do.

I've been successful in business.

I've been successful in government.

I'm the only person so far in this race who can say that he'd been successful on both sides.

I don't tolerate stupidity.

I resent elitists who can tell me what to do, but don't dare come out of their house or their office and get their hands dirty doing it.

So, I mean, you... you can say I've been successful.

You can say that I am wealthy.

I have been successful.

I am wealthier than the normal Californian, but I have not forgotten where I came from.

Scott: Okay.

You-— you've, uh, strongly criticized Gavin Newsom's management of the COVID- 19 pandemic.

What specific actions would you have taken if you had been governor, that Newsom didn't, to get California reopened sooner and with fewer human and economic casualties?

Doug: Number one, I would have figured out what the private schools were doing.

That they-— I mean, if you look at the private schools, it was an existential question for them.

They either solved the problem of staff and student safety, or they died.

In other words, they went out of business.

The private schools figured out the safety protocols that allowed them to stay open and continue in-class learning.

The difference in public K-12 between what we have and what we might've had by adopting those same protocols that the private schools that adopted, is stark.

That's the number one difference between me and an Ose administration versus a Newsom administration.

I would not have been blackmailed by the union bosses telling you, telling me as governor you can't do that until you give Medicare for all.

You can't do that until you defund the police.

You can't do that until we've got childcare for everybody.

I'’d have said...

I'’d have said, "“You can be in the classroom under safe operating conditions.

You need to be there by 8:00 AM tomorrow morning.

"” Scott: Well, let's stay with that for a second.

So, uh, by extension, if we extend what you just said out a little bit further, would you essentially be having a Ronald Reagan moment, to speak to another famous Californian, um, who'’s in government, who back in the first year of his presidential administration, when the air traffic controllers walked off, uh, their watches, he fired them all.

Would you have had a PATCO moment and essentially if the teachers didn't show up, fired them all and replaced him?

Doug: Well, let's be clear.

I'm not Ronald Reagan, right?

I am not Ronald Reagan.

Uh, he is one of my heroes and I just, I admire him so much, but I am not Ronald Reagan.

But I do think the circumstances that existed in the spring of 2020, where the safety protocols had been established and proven in private schools, I think the common sense of going and seeing, just asking a question, "“What have you done to protect staff and students that allows you to be open?

"” For instance, at the school where the governor's children attended, what is it that allowed that school to be open while public K-12 was closed?

And then I'd have taken those same protocols and using the governor's executive order and authorities under the Emergency Management Act, I would have required school districts to use that template to get kids and teachers back in the classroom.

If teachers then opted to say, "“No, I'm not going..."” Scott: What would you have done?

Doug: Obviously... obviously you replace them.

Scott: Okay.

Uh, I... I-— the reason that I asked the question is because, um, we're a year in to the pandemic and last year, uh, was a fairly, uh, extraordinary year on a couple of fronts.

We had devastating wildfires.

Uh, once in a 100-year healthcare crisis and the pandemic, and as a consequence an economy in the free-— in a free fall.

Not to mention crises like, um, the situation you've just described with public education.

Isn't it too easy to armchair quarterback, the governor's actions with the benefit of hindsight, as well as data that exists now?

But no one reasonably had access to that type of data, or had confronted those circumstances.

Doug: So, I...

I share your view about Monday morning quarterbacks throwing solutions on the table after the game has been played.

The flaw in your argument in terms of how it relates to me is, I was saying this in May and June of last year.

So, I'm not a Monday morning quarterback.

Scott: Okay.

Doug: I was saying it then.

Scott: Okay.

Doug: Now obviously... obviously the governor didn't listen to me.

He should have, but he didn't.

He listened to the union bosses at UTLA or whatever.

But he should have listened to me.

Scott: Which... which brings us to another issue.

You talk about him listening to the union bosses at UTLA and other places.

Um, a continuing conversation in California these days is that California has become ungovernable.

And that, um, even with essentially a 1-party government with the Democrats in control, uh, that there-— it is difficult to actually move the state forward on a number of fronts and challenges confronting the state.

What would you as a lone Republican by and large in Sacramento with tiny legislative caucuses who don't have any stopping power, um, do to be able to successfully put forward an agenda and get anything done any better than a Democrat would?

Doug: So, this... this is where I have such a huge advantage over most of these other candidates, is I understand how the legislative system operates.

I know who's in a swing district.

I know who has competing interests in their respective geographic areas.

I know how to use those to force elected officials to do X or Y or Z.

And then you layer on the opportunity that the citizens commission is going to provide with a new map representing new legislative districts at the state and federal level.

I think a person in the governor's office using the bully pulpit of the governor's office can have a profound impact in changing the course of legislative proposals.

Especially, especially because of this reapportionment that's coming.

A lot of these people in the legislative offices at the state and federal level don't have a concrete idea of who they're going to be representing at the election of '‘22.

And frankly, I know how to use that.

I know how to use that, to achieve my goals.

Scott: Hmm.

I want to come back to Governor Newsom.

You stated in one interview that Californians are tired of having a governor whose operating themes are quote, "“hypocrisy, self-interest, half-truths, and mediocrity.

"” Doug: Yep.

Scott: Um, what specific facts were you using to support those statements?

Doug: So, the hypocrisy is clear.

Telling me I can't go out to dinner when he does, The French Laundry incident.

The half-truths are, frankly, you know, the schools are open.

No, the schools are not open.

The schools are not open.

All right?

Ask your neighbor, go down your street.

Your schools are not open.

You know, the governor says they are, but they aren't.

Mediocrity.

There's an-— I mean, it's not even-— Scott, it's not even mediocrity what's happened at EDD.

Okay?

At the Employment Development Department, the level of, uh, management oversight that has been exercised at EDD where the leaders somehow or another decided to waive the requirement for paperwork that would substantiate an unemployment claim.

That waived the prohibition on backdating claims that had two people, at the start of the wave of fraud, there were two people assigned to the fraud division at EDD.

That is-— that's not even a mediocrity that's-— if that was a school with grades A through F that would be an F minus.

So, half-truths, mediocrity, hypocrisy.

This just, it just reeks from this, uh, administration and it needs to change.

Scott: Well, sticking with your, A through F, uh, grading system and our talking about education, given your criticisms of the government using that same system, what letter grade would you give former President Trump's management of the pandemic?

Because this was a lot of what happened at the state did have a nexus to the leadership and actions of the federal government.

Doug: So, I think...

I think President Trump, now President Biden, have their hands full dealing with, uh, protecting the United States.

None of them are gonna get all the answers right.

None of them are going to miss everything.

We are in a system of government that puts different responsibilities on different levels of government.

With respect to the pandemic, I think President Trump almost single handedly changed the manner in which vaccines for this pandemic were developed.

He created multiple channels with multiple providers who could reap rewards by solving the problem with vaccines.

And that approach worked.

There are other things that didn't, and we're having to deal with that.

But the fact that the vaccine that we're all hoping is now successful, the vacc-— that vaccine took nine months to develop when normally it's a minimum of three years and the credit for that goes to Trump.

There's no way you can say that business as usual in the development of that vaccine would have benefited to this country.

Scott: Uh... uh, on... on that point, I think that most people would... would agree.

Um, I would s-— uh, I would say that, uh, for the vaccine portion that, uh, President Trump or the Trump admin-— and the Trump administration, clearly were able to fast-track the vaccines that we're all enjoying.

But beyond that on an A through F grading scale, take that part away, what grade would you give his management of-— Doug: Well you can't... you can'’t-— Scott: The pandemic?

Doug: You can't take the development of the vaccine away from the discussion.

It's part of the discussion.

I'd say it's probably a B minus to a C plus.

I mean, that's kind of the grades that I used to get in college.

So, uh, I mean... Scott: You'’re not the only one.

Doug: So, look again, every president has successes, every president has failures.

Uh... Scott: You'’ve... you've been a supporter of the president's even going back to-— Doug: Absolutely.

Scott: The 2016 convention.

Doug: Yep.

Scott: And, uh, as a matter of fact, Jim Brulte and others gave you, uh, credit for managing, uh, some... some floor fights that essentially, uh, blocked those who were anti -Trump from being able to overturn him getting the nomination.

I assume you supported him in 2020 as well.

Doug: In February of 2016, I came out loud and proud for President Trump.

Then... then it was businessman Trump, but I came out loud and proud for him.

And I took-— I'll just-— I mean, you know Sacramento, I took a lot of spears and arrows for that.

Uh, but I ended up right.

Trump was the only person who could beat Clinton and the Republican voters saw that and gave him the nomination.

When we got the-— Scott: And I assume you supported him in 2020 as well?

Doug: I did...

I did support him in 2020.

I was...

I was with him when it wasn't popular.

And I'm with him when it is popular, and I'm with him when it isn't popular.

And I'm with him when it is... is popular.

I mean, I'm not...

I'm not John Kerry here, so I wasn't there-— I mean, I can't remember what the exact phrase is, but I was with him when it was... well, you know... you know, the allegory, the metaphor.

Scott: I... I-— we all get what you're saying.

We all-— we understand.

I wanted to ask you about that because, uh, President Trump has been, by all polling, wildly unpopular in the state.

And as a matter of fact, I think that while he did get more votes than any other Republican in history in the 2020 election that amounted to about 34% of the electorate.

How will you explain to the voters that you hope to face, your support of Donald Trump in a state that seems to be so adverse to both he as an individual and his presidency?

Doug: In that one's Scott, that one'’s a... that's a soft-— that's a big, fat softball.

So, in 2016, the choice was Clinton or a Republican.

In my view, Trump was the only one who could beat Clinton.

I make no apologies for being right about that.

Scott: And in 2020?

Doug: And in 2020, I know Joe Biden.

I have a great deal of respect for Mr. Biden, now President Biden.

But frankly, Trump's policies appeal to me.

So, I'm going to support the policies.

This is about policy.

You can-— I mean, everybody says things at different times that they regret saying.

So, okay, accept it.

I mean, President Biden said a lot of stuff he regrets saying, too.

But again, get to the policies.

That's what I'’m after.

Scott: Well, let... let's get to the policies.

Doug: Okay.

Scott: Um, in place of the current administration, what would be the priorities of an Ose administration from a policy perspective?

Doug: I'’d get-—okay.

Scott: Name the two or three issues that you would hang your hat on to be judged by your success of.

Doug: Number one, I'd get the schools open.

They'd be open by 8:00 AM tomorrow morning.

If somebody that didn't want to show up for work, I'd find a replacement.

That's policy number one.

Policy number two, I'’d get our businesses open.

Business owners are smart enough to create safe environments for their customers to come into their businesses.

That's policy number two.

Policy number three, I'd make sure that we expanded Drug Courts and Mental Health Courts so that people who are homeless now suffering from drug addiction or mental illness could be assisted back to a productive life.

We went... we went away from that five or six years ago, and we're paying, uh, negative dividends for that.

Number four, I'd put the people that were... were released from prison back in May by Governor Newsom, the 20,000 or so felons that were released back into our communities.

They'd be back in jail, serving the rest of their term.

Number five, I'd make sure that we hired enough additional justice judges so that we could get these 47,000 people who are currently in local jails with... with extensive periods of time incarcerated without having a timely resolution of what they were charged for.

That is an inappropriate, uh, situation that needs to be addressed.

Scott: Well, let me-— Doug: Those are five things right there.

Scott: Our-—in... in our... in our final moments, I'd ask you for a quick response on the following-— what is the one thing that you would do in order to address the income inequality issue that faces our state today?

Doug: I think the income inequality issue requires about a 15-year program.

It starts with an education that gives kids the tools to compete in a global economy.

They have to learn math.

They have to know civics.

They have to learn history.

They must learn economics.

I'd start there.

Scott: And finally, Congressman Ose, whether the recall goes forward or not, are you running for governor in 2022?

Doug: I'’m in Scott.

I'’m running in the recall.

I'’m running in 2022.

I'’ve got something to say and I'’m going to say it.

Scott: And I think we'’ll leave it there.

And that's our show.

Thanks to our guest and thanks to you for watching Studio Sacramento.

I'm Scott Syphax, see you next time right here on KVIE.

♪♪ ♪♪ Scott Syphax: All episodes of Studio Sacramento, along with other KVIE programs, are available to watch online at kvie.org/video.