>> major funding for "Chat Box" with David Cruz is sponsored by the New Jersey education Association, making public schools great for every child.

Promotional support is provided by insider NJ, a political intelligence network dedicated to New Jersey political news.

Insider NJ is committed to giving serious political players and interactive forum for ideas, discussion, and insight.

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♪ David: Hey, everybody, welcome to "Chat Box."

we continue with our one-on-one chats with gubernatorial candidates.

In our second half, we will talk to Republican Mario kranjac, former mayor of Inglewood Cliffs, but we can with the Democratic candidate, Ras Baraka , current mayor.

Early on, and a lot of people we talked to called you a long shot.

They are not saying that anymore.

Same candidate, same campaign, or have you adjusted the message or delivery?

Ras: No, I think we have been saying the same thing.

We have not changed anything we have said.

I think it will just underestimated the time we are in and underestimated our ability to communicate to voters across the state of New Jersey and we have done that.

We have been on the ground working hard, and I think we have been getting dividends because of that, going back to old-fashioned retail politics, not just depending on TV and mail.

David: How did they underestimate you?

What did they think you would not be able to do?

Ras: I think people underestimate me because they underestimate Newark.

They underestimate this area and who I am and they underestimate the people of New Jersey.

They are relying on this concept that New Jerseyans are not ready to elect an African-American man as a governor of the state of New Jersey and they are wrong.

Up and down the state, there are enough people in New Jersey, and the families of all nationalities and backgrounds that are prepared to do that.

I think that assumption is completely incorrect.

David: Businesspeople we talk to about you say they are concerned about your attitude on taxes, mainly that you like them too much.

You got tax cut is in this race on both sides.

How will you differentiate between your attitude on taxes and your opponent's, from either side?

Ras: Mine is about the truth.

I am an mayor and I know how to govern and I know what it takes to govern.

We are not selling pies or cars out the back of city call -- at.

Our money comes from ratables.

You cannot cut everybody's taxes.

You cannot club -- cut working-class families' taxes and at the same time give a tax break to millionaires and billionaires.

Corporate tax rates to those folks and not tax working families.

Somebody has to pay the bill and that is clear.

When people say they will cut everybody's taxes, they are just not telling the truth or they are not planning on having a budget that in fact is usable that they can balance that is not in a deficit.

Somebody needs to pay the bill and we need to do that in a fair and equitable way.

That's all we are saying.

David: I remember when you first ran for mayor a hundred years ago, and I was interviewing you.

I remember it clearly because we were walking down broad, and I said, you don't seem to have fun during this campaign.

You said, well, it's not a party.

Do you still approach at the same way?

Ras: A little different.

At this point, you understand that all the stuff comes with it.

People's ideas, there assumptions.

You are in a competition, debating, trying to push your issues and your message, and, clearly, in order to get the things done that you need to get done, you have to be as collaborative as possible.

These are big things with big ideas and big obstacles that we need to move out of the way, so you need as many people with hands on it as you possibly can.

I remember the business community saying that they thought I would not be good for business in Newark.

I would ask people to talk to any of these business people in Newark right now and see what their positions are.

David: You embraced the term radical when you first ran.

You come from radical roots, obviously.

What kind of radical agenda will you bring to the governor's office?

Ras: I think the things people are assuming are radical, they may be radical in its time, but I think they are commonsense things that need to be done.

Reduction of health care through reference-based pricing, talking about a single-payer system.

Particularly with all the threats to Medicaid and Medicare, it is something we need to begin doing now.

Having a public works project throughout the state, led by the state of New Jersey, financed by a public bank that the state begins to advance, not a commercial bank but an investment bank that they begin to advance is something we need to do.

Combining school districts.

Unified school districts throughout the state.

Not having districts with only one school to me is something that is common sense.

It reduces taxes and streamlines the delivery of government services.

These are things that need to happen immediately.

Some people would call them radically.

-- some people will call them radical.

I think they are things that need to be done and bringing money back to our budget, into our coffers is incredibly important, specifically now since we are in a financial crisis and the government is threatening to take money away from us.

David: What is a Baraka cabinet going to look like?

You have any pix already?

Do you have an LG pic, for instance?

Ras: Not really.

-- do you have any picks already?

Do you have an LG pick, for instance?

Ras: I don't know that I was a matte black and it is my guy right away.

I think that is just a platitude people throughout to make people feel good, but my cabinet would be diverse, diverse in background and nationality but also diverse in expertise and where we find people up and down the state of New Jersey, there are communities we do not reach into.

We need to reach into these communities and find the best folks and pull them out, right?

I don't think there is a distinction or separation between being qualified and be endeavors.

In fact, I think you find more qualified people the more diverse you grow because the pool gets larger, and if the pool gets larger, you are giving yourself an opportunity to find better people.

David: Complaints about the current state of the governor's budget proposal, and a lot of people say $58 billion, that is almost 60% over Chris Christie's final budget eight years ago.

What do you think about the size of this budget, and how would you shrink or conversely grow it ?

Ras: There's a few things.

I think the budget is this way because they are paying bills, paying the pension, fully funding schools.

Some of those things need to be fixed, but that's some of the reason the bill looks that way, and the cost of living is increasing.

Plus, the state of New Jersey and anchor program is driving those costs up.

School funding is driving this concept, but also health care.

Is probably the number one most unpredictable cost that is driving up the spending of the state and driving taxpayer dollars up that we have to institute caps.

We had to do reference-based pricing.

We have to drop those prices down so the state is paying less , and invest more in Medicaid.

Medicare is also part of that cost.

What we do not calculate in that is the tax breaks we have given to millionaires and billionaires.

Bringing that money back will I think help us reduce some of the strain that is on our budget, but spending we can get under control.

If we reduce people's costs, we do not have to throw out state of New Jersey money to folks that are making $500,000 or more.

I think that is a ridiculous use of funding it has to be rethought.

We're looking at some of that and fixing our health care costs.

David: We have to talk about the need for affordable housing in the state.

We see Newark and New Jersey talking about how much affordable housing they have created.

Yet, they are top five at least in terms of most expensive cities in the state as far as housing goes.

Does providing affordable housing require that we accept that 80% market rate versus 20% affordable that we see in these local ordinances?

Ras: We started that in Newark, actually, but I think that is important because you have to force people to build affordable housing.

Jersey City, over 90% of its rents are over $2000.

It is not about how high the rents are.

In Newark, it is about how low wages are.

People need to be at 30% of the area median income in order to afford affordable housing.

That's why public housing is available to folks.

At 40% of the AMI, you have to make about $40,000, so we have raised people salaries to about $40,000 to allow people to afford those units, but there are still a number of people who make below $40,000, so we have to talk about how to raise wages and make the federal government more responsible in making sure they help us subsidize housing costs, help us subsidize mortgages, put people in homes.

That is what needs to be done.

We also create affordability by taking people's section 8 vouchers and turning them into mortgages.

Homeownership is also part of affordability.

Not just the 80/20 rule.

And when you get people who put money in affordable housing trust fund, we use that money to build more affordable housing across the city that has nothing to do with the 80/20 rule.

Across the street from City Hall, there is a 50% affordability in that building.

Some buildings have way about 20% affordability because we put more subsidy in those buildings.

That's what it will take -- more subsidy, more money from the state and federal government and from the private sector.

David: This is a broader political question and I only have a minute for you to answer, but Democrats seem to be trying to rise up after the political election, lots of rallies around the state.

What impact are they having or are they just letting off steam?

Ras: I think they are having an impact.

One thing is allowing people to understand they are not the only ones feeling this way.

That collective action is always important, helping us build coalitions, creating strategy and pushing back and giving people the hope and inspiration and building this kind of momentum that will lead us up into the midterm elections, and hopefully we change what is happening in the Congress and the House and Senate to be able to push back against Donald Trump.

David: What did you think about Cory Booker's .5-hour performance the other day?

Effective or just Cory being Cory?

Ras: I thought it was awesome.

Effectively shut down Strom Thurmond's record.

I think people need to see that.

People have to say that we have some moral high ground, that somebody is pushing back, not sitting around being quiet while they slap us in the face.

I think Cory has definitely done that and captured the imagination of millions of people across the country.

David: Thanks for coming on with us, man.

Ras: Thank you for having me.

David: When it comes to President Trump, no candidate has been as Trumpy as Mario Kranjac, at least according to Mario Kranjac.

Mario: It was not just me.

They would always have these headlines about the Trumpy Mayor of Inglewood Cliffs.

David: Trump is the Republican standardbearer at the moment, but will you still be waiving the Trump banner as vigorously in the general election?

Mario: Of course, absolutely.

I am there for him.

I always was, I always will be.

I don't have to go back and fix the record like others do.

David: What is it about the Trump agenda that New Jersey voters should be feeling so good about?

You have tariffs on, tariffs off, mass deportations.

Mario: It is very simple, he is returning us to a normal state of being a state and a country.

All the nonsense is leaving and we are going back to being normal.

David: Can you expound on that?

>> sure.

We are going to educate our children, not indoctrinate.

We are going to have a country for lawful citizens and lawful visitors.

We are going to have fair trade with the rest of the world.

The globalist agenda will be for the others, not for us.

We are a sovereign country.

We don't surrender our sovereignty to the United Nations, to the people in Davos, or the EU or to China, and Donald Trump understands that.

He understands what Americans want.

That is exactly what we want.

David: What is the impact of those policies and those philosophies on New Jersey?

Mario: The country and the state were built on law and order.

We are returning to being a law and order state, a law and order country.

We will be a state within a country.

We are no longer being a sanctuary state or sanctuary city if you are within the state.

We will follow federal law.

Our governor and elected officials and law enforcement officials take an oath of office to adhere to the laws of the United States and its constitution and also New Jersey and its constitution.

There is no room for what Governor Murphy is doing in terms of telling law enforcement officers to disregard federal law or for himself to even harbor an illegal alien over his garage.

We cannot do that.

We have to send the right message to our own citizens and to the rest of the world that America is here.

We want to be your friend.

Don't be our enemy.

David: You mentioned Governor Murphy.

Can you name two or three ways that this current governor has failed the state if you think he has?

Mario: I already mention one or two, which is he is not following federal law.

He is permitting sanctuary states to exist.

Apparently he and at the time the Attorney General did not think the coronavirus would go to protests.

He was telling the whole state to lock down.

Meanwhile, they were marching hand in hand at mostly peaceful firing protests.

It's just a bad message.

It is not acceptable for a leader to be doing that.

The rest of it is the financial part of New Jersey, and unaffordable state.

It is not a good state to be doing business in any longer.

The taxes are too high and the education system has been completely broken by them because they were looking to indoctrinate, not educate our children.

David: What do you mean by that?

What do you mean they are trying to indoctrinate as opposed to educate?

Mario: Right, so, exactly.

Educate is teaching students math, science, civics.

What Governor Murphy did and his legislators did was they wrote in to the school curriculum the critical race theory Marxist theories that need to be taught to children.

The trans kids.

They are letting boys compete in girls sports.

They have social emotional learning which never works.

They have DEI, diversity, equity, inclusion written into the curriculums.

When I was mayor, we did not teach that.

We let parents be parents and the government be educators and that was it.

David: Is it not the role of educators, for instance, to discuss black history?

Is that not American history?

>> If it is American history, yes, right, David?

Black history is history, but actually putting Marxist oppression thoughts into the curriculum where everyone is either an oppressor or oppressed, that is not history.

David: But, I mean, honestly, that really is an oversimplification.

Mario: No, it's not, actually, because that is what they are doing.

They want children to hate each other because one side will be oppressed and one side will be an oppressor.

That is not education.

Actually, those Marxist theories failed throughout the world -- David: What Marxist theories are you talking about exactly.

I don't want to get sidetracked, but when you say they are teaching Marxism -- Mario: Right, so let's go.

In the rest of the world, Marxism was embedded because of the disparity in incomes.

There was the class and the rest , right?

David: How are they teaching Marxist theory?

Mario: Let me get to that.

Giving a chance.

Here, the Marxist said we do not have those income disparities in America and opportunities are equal, so we will divide the country based on race.

My whole lifetime has been inclusive of everyone.

We grew up in a beautiful country where we treated everyone equally and fairly and as Martin Luther King said, based on character and merit, not on the color of your skin, and unfortunately, what Governor Murphy and everyone else did with the curriculum was they brought in these theories of Marxism into the classroom where people felt oppressed because of the color of their skin or the status of their lives.

That was not fair to children.

You only have one chance to do a childhood right, and the parents are responsible for everything other than what the school should be teaching them.

Parents can teach them things when and how if they want to, but they don't have to be letting the government co-parent with them.

David: Let me move on from that except to say that when Martin Luther King Jr. talked about the content of one's character and being judged that way, he did not say that that was what was happening.

He said that that was something that we should strive for, so there's a little bit of a difference there.

Mario: No, no, we did that during my lifetime, David.

During my lifetime, everyone was treated very fair, and it was in 2020 -- David: Let me move on, Mayor because that is patently untrue.

The state's business community has been frustrated by this administration.

What specific things are you offering to change in the business environment in the state if you think it needs changing?

Mario: It absolutely does need changing.

We have lost so many major companies during my lifetime.

I grew up in Clifton.

We used to have all the pharmaceutical companies based around their actually making things and producing things.

They all left, and the reason they left was because the state became unaffordable for the companies to be here and for the employees of those companies to live here.

They taxes were too high.

Property taxes were too high, income taxes were too high, and the infrastructure was failing and is still failing in this state where the roads are not acceptable.

The train system is not acceptable, but we just keep spending money on it, and it has to stop.

We have to fix this and it will be done through public/private partnerships where you have better transportation, lower taxes.

Once you cut a $58 billion budget down to $45 billion or $40 billion where it should be, you will see that you do not need to tax residents -- David: Where do you cut that?

What is out back on Mario: Thank you for asking that.

In Englewood Cliffs when I became mayor, we were able to cut taxes without cutting services.

The way we did that -- and we did not have a fancy name for it like doge.

We just practically went with a budget and cut all the waste, fraud, abuse, and corruption.

Ray Kelly was the Commissioner in New York at the time making $50,000 less, leading 50,000 police officers, so New Jersey is just full of these sweetheart deals where people have been protecting their political sponsors and being rewarded for it through these insane salaries.

That needs to end and we can make it in New Jersey much more affordable.

I just give you an example, but the state budget is full of consultants who are not needed, law firms that are not needed.

There is a line item in the budget right now that Governor Murphy put in.

It is $1 million earmarked to hire lawyers to fight President Trump's policies.

Gavin Newsom in California has the same line item, and its $50 million.

People don't realize how much they are being ripped off.

David: Is it your opinion that anyone in the country without proper authorization is a criminal, and would you then arrest and deport them all?

Mario: What kind of authorization are you referring to?

David: With papers, as it were.

Green cards.

>> are you saying that if someone in the country -- if someone is in the country unlawfully, they should be deported?

David: Yes.

Mario: Yes, they should be deported and they should have the opportunity if they are not criminals to come back the right way.

David: You would arrest and report them all?

Mario: You are using two words.

I would deport them.

I don't know if you need to arrest them.

David: Well, you have to apprehend them.

Mario: They should not be here in the first place, right?

Wouldn't you agree with me?

David: Is not important what I think about this.

It's at least 500,000 people in New Jersey.

What kind of impact you think that will have on the state's economy, for instance?

Mario: It will flourish.

We will not have to support 500,000 people -- David: And who will take their job?

Mario: Let me finish the answer.

We will be able to take care of the 99,000 in the state who are food insecure, 12,000 who are on house, 1200 of whom are veterans.

We need our money for the people who are here lawfully, not to support people who came from another country unlawfully.

It does not make sense.

David: Should government be playing a role for instance in ensuring affordable housing?

Mario: No.

Government should be playing a role in making sure no one is discriminated against in housing , and if you had a state that is affordable, things would be affordable in terms of housing and everything else that goes with it.

David: Mario Kranjac, Republican running for governor, thanks for taking a few minutes with us, Mayor.

Mario: Thank you for a spirited conversation.

David: That is "Chat Box" for this week.

Just announced this week, "Chat Box" will present a conversation with the Republican candidates for governor, those who have qualified for matching funds.

That is Wednesday, May 7 at 7:00.

More on that in the days ahead.

We are on bluesky now.

You can follow us there and stay current with what the rest of the news team is up to by subscribing to the NJ Spotlight News YouTube channel.

We are off next week for Easter.

We will be back the week after.

We thank you for watching and we will see you in two weeks.

>> Major funding for "Chat Box" with David Cruz is provided by the members of the New Jersey education Association, making public schools great for every child.

Promotional support is provided by insider NJ, a political intelligence network dedicated to New Jersey political news.

Insider NJ is committed to giving serious political players and interactive forum for ideas, discussion, and insight.

Online at insiderNJ.com.

♪