(instrumental music) Narrator: Today on Spectrum Hawaii, three accomplished musicians come together to play great music.

The artistic director of the Hawaii Guitar Festival, Byron Yasui, hosts a musical interview with bossa nova and jazz virtuoso Charlie Byrd.

Later in the program, the renowned classical guitarist Carlos Barbosa-Lima will join the conversation.

(instrumental music) Byron Yasui: Yeah, Charlie, that's fine.

Yeah.

Thank you.

You know I was sitting here listening to you play, and I was wondering how, how you got into playing acoustic guitar, jazz on acoustic guitar, because most guitarists play their jazz on the, the solid body electric guitar.

Charlie Byrd: Well, I had an electric guitar when I was about 10 years old.

I was one of the first kids in Southeastern Virginia to have an electric guitar.

Seasonal Buck.

60 bucks, including the amplifier.

But I played that for a while, and I, I, grew up on the electric guitar players, Charlie Christian and all that.

We had Les Paul, but when I heard Segovia for the first time, roughly in 1946 and I had heard a few flamenco players and things like that before, but that really struck me.

And I said, you know, I want to know something about this way of playing the guitar.

This seems to me that's that's got a long history, and it's something I would like to know.

So, I got very interested in studying that.

And I sort of abandoned jazz for about 10 years.

And when I got back to thinking about jazz, I had acquired this, some classical techniques, so I thought I should apply it.

Byron Yasui: You studied with Segovia?

I did, yes.

You also studied with Papas Sofocles?

Yeah.

And how did you ever get into the bossa nova movement?

Your name is associated with the, the early stages of bossa nova in America.

Charlie Byrd: Well, I got that was just pure luck.

I had an opportunity to go to Brazil, and bossa nova had been popular, and I had heard a couple of records, but I hadn't, I hadn't had any first-hand knowledge of it.

I'd always liked Brazilian music.

I liked Carmen Miranda, the music and the musicians that played with her very much.

And and I had heard Laurindo Almeida, of course, and I liked where he played very much.

But went to Brazil and had a chance to stay up and and jam with some Brazilian musicians and learn these wonderful new tunes, primarily by by Jobim, but also some wonderful tunes by Roberto Menescal and Luiz Bonfa and other people as well.

So that's how that happened.

Byron Yasui: Your present situation, you're doing concerts in the DC area pretty much?

Charlie Byrd: Well, I travel a lot.

I've been to Europe four times.

All right, you're just in England with Carlos, just in England with Carlos, and I was in Germany two different tours already this year, so.

Byron Yasui: But how active are you with the Washington guitar quintet?

I know you play with them, and you've recorded with them.

Charlie Byrd: We haven't got much going right now.

We played, we played a couple of concerts earlier in the year, and we have some more coming up later, but nothing right now.

Byron Yasui: What's in store for you now recording wise, are you?

Charlie Byrd: I've done an album this year with with the Great Guitars formula again, we went back to that, which is two electric guitar players and myself.

Who?

We used Herb Ellis still, and this time we used Mondello.

Oh.

And we also added a fourth one, Larry Coryell, so we have four on some tracks.

Byron Yasui: Too bad you, we're going to miss the there's a tribute to Tal Farlow, I think, in New York, just about the time we're going to be giving our concert in Hilo.

That's right, yes.

But I suppose you were.

Charlie Byrd: I was invited, and I sent him a telegram to be read at the concert that says, When I grow up, I want to be just like you.

Byron Yasui: Your, your classical guitar technique has it helped you a lot in jazz.

Charlie Byrd: Well, I think it makes me approach.

I think it gives me a little different approach than most jazz players.

Although I tried to, well, I don't really try to incorporate any sort of style.

I've just listened to a lot of jazz, and a lot of a lot of the technique of the traditional jazz players come through.

Byron Yasui: You don't use a pick anymore at all.

I never used a pick.

Oh, you never did even on the electric?

Charlie Byrd: Well, I did then, yes, but I haven't used pick in years.

But I've developed some things I do with my index finger that I. Byron Yasui: I noticed.

I pick like.

And that strumming thing you're doing with what finger was, had your index index finger?

Charlie Byrd: Well, sometimes I do it like a (strumming), more like the flamenco players, but yeah, but a lot of it's more like a banjo.

(strumming) Byron Yasui: You do any classical guitar, like pizzicato things in your playing, too, and harmonics?

Charlie Byrd: I do some of that.

I didn't think of that before.

Yeah, yeah, Byron Yasui: Your repertoire is pretty much straight ahead jazz there, right?

I mean, you're associated with the bossa nova movement, but do you mostly play traditional, standard jazz in your concerts?

Charlie Byrd: I do, yes.

A few original tunes.

And I do a lot of bossa nova and some some traditional Latin tunes, Mexican songs.

Yeah.

Byron Yasui: Yeah.

People have asked me to told me to ask you, who are some of the big-name jazz musicians you performed with?

Charlie Byrd: Performed with?

Well, I guess I'd have to put Stan Getz at the top of the list because we had a very successful bossa nova record.

I performed with, way back with Charlie Parker.

He's, I mean, I never recorded on the electric guitar.

On the electric guitar, yeah.

Byron Yasui: What year was it when you switched to classical guitar?

Was it a sudden switch or a gradual shift?

Charlie Byrd: Gradual.

Gradual shift.

I started playing classical guitar about 1947 and by about 10 years later, I had totally abandoned the other one.

So, it was gradual.

Byron Yasui: You prefer you're happy with this.

I like it very much.

I see now you have a new kind of you've abandoned the footstool, and now you have this new rest.

Charlie Byrd: Well, it's a new way.

It's a new way that brings the guitar up into playing position.

Yeah, great.

Byron Yasui: Well, this is the first time we've, we've, we're working you into the Hawaii Guitar Festival and the 1996 University of Hawaiʻi summer session Guitar Festival.

I hope you're having a good time.

I know you just arrived last night, so you're probably getting more jet lag from Washington, D.C. Charlie Byrd: Still a little of that, but I'm doing pretty good.

Byron Yasui: Yeah.

More and more jazz guitars, I noticed, are switching to classical, the acoustic guitar, you know, Gene Bertoncini and Jeff Linsky are two that I can think of off-hand.

Charlie Byrd: Yeah, there's more traffic between the two worlds nowadays than they used to be.

Yeah.

Byron Yasui: And I think it's a very positive thing for classical guitarists, because young classical guitar students see that jazz is, you know, playable on the classical guitar, so now they can hopefully open up their, their eyes to playing different types of music on the acoustic classical guitar.

Charlie Byrd: I think so.

It takes a little, you know, improvising in particular.

It takes a little more thinking about it to do it with, with the hand, rather than a pick.

Because a pick you only have up and down and it's, less things to deal with.

But I think the possibilities for what you can do is so much, especially from an expressive point of view, it's so much more with the hand, I think.

Yeah.

Byron Yasui: We're going to play another piece at least, and this, tell us this tune.

Charlie Byrd: This is a song by Harold Arlen, one of my favorite songwriters, and it's called.

He wrote Over the Rainbow, I believe, awesome.

That was one of his most famous, but he wrote a room full of tunes, yeah.

And this is very nice one called This Will be my Shining Hour.

Let it rip.

(instrumental music) Charlie Byrd: Hey, very nice.

I enjoyed that.

(instrumental music) Byron Yasui: Yeah, that's nice Carlos.

Thank you.

You know we talked earlier and I know you have a very interesting story about the start, you know, when you started to play the guitar when you were about 9 years old.

Tell us about that story.

Carlos Barbosa-Lima: My father wanted very much to take a few lessons because I had an uncle, my Godfather, he played the guitar a little bit.

He was a doctor.

And so, my father bought a guitar and found some teacher.

Took lessons for eight, nine months.

And during that period, he made very little progress, you know.

But I was watching the lessons, and apparently took up a great interest.

And I was picking up everything from the lessons, visually and by ear.

So, in eight, nine months he decided to let me go.

Because I was very much involved and attracted to the guitar.

So, that's the way I got into guitar.

Byron Yasui: You told me that he, he would, you would sit on the floor and watch him take lessons with Moreira, I think his name was, Benedito Moreira.

Yeah, no, yeah.

Later on, yes, later on, and you would watch his lesson, and then when he when the teacher would leave, he'd put, your dad would put the guitar down, and then you would pick up the guitar and play the lesson through that your dad had a hard time playing.

Carlos Barbosa-Lima: Absolutely.

Yeah.

That was very spontaneous.

Yeah.

Byron Yasui: I think God made you to be a guitarist.

And then, then a turning point was when your dad took you to music store in Sao Paulo, yes, just noodling around.

Carlos Barbosa-Lima: Two years later, I, I, you know, the, of course, the tradition of Italian Brazil very good.

In that particular moment, Luiz Bonfa was playing a lot his records around, and Laurindo Almeida and others, you know.

So anyway, the influence of Luiz Bonfa was very powerful, because he was there and we met in a musical store a guitarist store actually, Casa De Ovechio downtown, Sao Paulo.

It used to be a kind of a meeting place for guitarists.

Byron Yasui: And he heard you play?

Carlos Barbosa-Lima: He heard me play, and he was very impressed.

And he said that the right person for me lived right in Sao Paulo.

And was his teacher too.

Byron Yasui: And his name again?

Luis Bonfa.

No, the teacher.

Carlos Barbosa-Lima: The teacher is, Isaias Savio.

Savio was born Uruguay.

He came to Brazil in 1931 I believe.

And he lived there for the rest of his life, dedicated very much to teaching and composing, writing.

Byron Yasui: And this is a big turning point, very big.

How long did you study with Savio?

Carlos Barbosa-Lima: Well, I studied for about five, six years after that moment.

But the point is that Savio put me against the wall, put that to hand, asked me that famous question, do you want to really do it and have a career concept, make your life out of this you can take if you take it seriously, I'll take you.

I'll treat you seriously too, not like a kid, but like would be a grown up.

Byron Yasui: And so, then you committed yourself?

Carlos Barbosa-Lima: I committed myself, and he told me the conditions I had and all of that, but it would be hard work, including some reshaping certain things that he wanted to to correct.

He made a plan for two years, and I in one week, I pretty much got it.

Things went pretty fast.

and he became a friend forever.

Byron Yasui: How long did you study with him in total?

Carlos Barbosa-Lima: Total about five years as a pupil and teacher, and then friends forever, as I said, because we would get together.

I was already in the United States in the 70s when his health was coming down, and I would go back there, would visit and chat about things, because he was a very well-read man.

And so, music was part of culture in general, and he was very insistent about that.

So, he left a very good legacy in Brazil.

And he was very interested in the Brazilian music.

Yeah, yeah.

Byron Yasui: Could you play us a solo?

Sure.

Something.

What are you going to play?

Carlos Barbosa-Lima: I'm going to play a piece by a wonderful composer from Venezuela, Antonio Lauro, guitarist, and with a great tradition of that country.

And this is called Venezuelan Waltzs number three, Natalia.

He gave titles to each of them named after his nieces.

I think this one is one of his daughters, Natalia.

(instrumental music) Byron Yasui: Bravo, bravo, bravo.

Well, it's great Having you both here for the 1996 University of Hawaiʻi summer session Guitar Festival.

Carlos, you've been coming here every year since about 1984 or so on your own.

And Charlie, this is your first involvement with the Guitar Festival.

But you were here in ‘87, ‘87.

Charlie Byrd: And I hope it's not my last.

Byron Yasui: It won't be.

I guarantee.

Yes, I remember we played together in the great guitars concert at the Neal Blaisdell concert hall.

It was you and Barney Kessel and Joe Diorio.

Charlie Byrd: It was great concert.

I enjoyed that very much.

Byron Yasui: I liked our rehearsal session, just sitting in the hotel room talking through the show and say, okay, let's do it, you know.

Charlie Byrd: You can't, you shouldn't rehearse jazz, not session too much.

No, you, you rehearse all the soul out of it.

Byron Yasui: That's right, just like with a recording studio, you over, you know, do something over and over again.

You you lose, you lose the spirit.

Charlie Byrd: The spontaneity is one of the great parts of it.

Carlos Barbosa-Lima: Yeah, I remember I was here that year too, beautiful concert.

Byron Yasui: Well, let's play some more music.

Maybe get into Triste, some Brazilian music and let me change instruments, and then we'll get into it.

Okay.

(instrumental music)