>> The horrific mass shooting at a Texas elementary school has once again renewed calls for action against gun violence.

We reconnect with Miss Whitney Austin, who herself survived being shot 12 times in Cincinnati.

The mass shooting in 2018.

That conversation now on connections.

Thank you for joining us for this edition of connections.

I'm Renee Shaw.

We had to have to do this kind of conversation yet again.

But too often we find ourselves in this position after horrific mass shooting this time, a Texas elementary school that claimed more than a dozen lives of little children and 2 teachers.

Today's guest knows what that experience is like.

Whitney Austin.

She survived a mass shooting in 2018.

The Cincinnati bank.

She was shot 12 times and she has been a tremendous advocate for sensible, reasonable, pragmatic gun control legislation.

And she'll talk more about that.

And Whitney, thank you for being with us today.

Thank you for having me.

I have to say, you know, I've I've talked to you a few times about these issues, Whitney, and it's always after we have this magnitude of of mass shooting and I just wonder, first of all, I'm sorry to have to to talk with you under such circumstances, but what does this do to you personally, when you hear of these incidents over and over and over again, >> it's a cycle of >> despair and frustration and then it evolves into action.

>> So currently and be activated stage where I feel this tremendous responsibility to do everything within my power to bring the people together to help reduce gun violence.

So it's an ebb and flow.

>> You know, I and I know media often ask you about your experience that September September 6, I believe it was 2018 when you were just doing your job walking through the doors of the bank that you vice president the time there if you can, for viewers that don't know your story.

We'll share that with us.

You know, you know.

>> My experience was very different than what happened on Tuesday.

I'm an adult and certainly no adult deserves to be caught up in a mass shooting.

But certainly our children are innocent children do not.

And so what happened to me on September 6?

It's likely not all that different from what happened to the savings on Tuesday.

I was going into work at 5th 3005th bank headquarters in Cincinnati, Ohio, thinking it was just going to be another day of project work.

And instead I walked into a mass shooting that had erupted.

When I walked into the building high use the revolving door that I always used.

And I was immediately had fire barrages of bullets forcing me to collapse in this quadrant of the revolving door, thinking through what are my options for survival?

And I'll tell you that all I thought about my children, my babies getting back to them and surviving so that I could be reunited with my family.

And because of the Peru police officers and physicians and nurses at UC Hospital.

I did.

But as you shares, it is a complete miracle.

I was shot 12 times and not once did any of those bullets hit and major organ for artery.

And so I have so much gratitude for the gift of life that I was given.

so much purpose.

And that is that I want to make sure that nobody else experiences these horrific events.

And here we are today, 3 days after it happening to the most innocent among us.

I truly believe as Americans, we have responsibility to protect our innocent children.

A message that you would send 2 congressional leaders because that's where the the largest cry and call for action is happening now.

We've heard some pretty impassioned speeches.

>> Since those killings from those who want something done this time around.

I mean, what would you say to them about what kind of action should be taken in the near future?

>> You know, want to get this point.

It's not so much about specifically what we want them to do.

It's generally we want them to do something.

And so that's what I have asked our supporters to do.

That is our call for action.

You know, at this point, it really resides with the Senate at the federal level and it requires 10 members from one side or the other to join the rest of them.

And you know, what I actually believe the seven-year-old goals and those specific adults were called to solve our problems.

And this is a very clear problem in the United States.

And so what I would ask is come together.

You're smart people.

There are plenty of policies rooted in the evidence.

We know work.

Find the ones that you can come together on and pass those.

And I don't think that my clean the place of those who says all that different than the American public.

We we just need to see our press do something.

I do want to let people know and they'll see this as we we talk.

They'll be some information.

The bottom of the screen, you started an organization called Whitney Strong co-founded back to the president and CEO of this organization.

>> Committed to bipartisan solutions that you recognize that this is a very difficult conversation to have for gun rights proponents and for those who advocate for gun control.

But Whitney Strong as dedicated to finding something in the middle.

That doesn't isolate either side.

What have you come up with?

>> You know, so that was really important to us as we started the organization where gun owning never forget sitting in the hospital in Cincinnati and getting text messages from everybody loves us because I it was it wasn't available to me after the shooting but into my husband's cell phone.

And I was thinking, look at really doesn't matter if you're a gun owner in on another, regardless of which side of the political aisle you sit on, you support reducing gun violence.

It really just boils down to what are those common ground solutions that everybody can get behind?

And so it was because of the support from a very tight group, diverse group of people.

But we said this is how we do with the strong.

We want to be big tents that everyone feels comfortable with.

Then.

And so when it came to policy solutions, which by the way, 2 thirds of what Whitney Strong does is not focused on legislation that its work within the community of up to one 3rd of the work that we do that is focused on legislation.

We chose a policy that started out as a red flag lowered extreme risk protection order but a bold into something that was custom made for Kentucky.

And we're proud to share that from the beginning.

It has had bipartisan support with Senators Warren back and Senator McCarthy.

>> And let's just point out for viewers who may not know Senator Paul hardback as a Republican of Shelby and Senator Morgan McGarvey, who is he was secure the Democratic nomination for the 3rd district of Kentucky for Congress.

He is the current leader, minority leader and the state Senate.

So you had to different legislators from each side of the aisle to come together.

What did you have to say to convinced a Senator Paul cornerback to get aboard that perhaps you didn't have to say to a Democrat Morgan McGarvey or vice versa.

>> Well, it was 2 totally different Senator McGarvey came to my house when I came home from the hospital.

He was the very first guest who I didn't know it all.

By the way.

And he came in and said here basically a bunch of articles regarding polled say you review that and you tell me what you want to take up and help you there by your side.

So it was immediate support and encouragement and advice.

I didn't know what to pursue.

I didn't know anything about any of was a banker, right?

And so further research that more land and on, I would like something like an extreme risk protection order because it is rooted in evidence and it is effective at preventing the exact thing that happened today.

And furthermore, at the time there was good bipartisan support for this policy.

Everybody from President Trump, 2 senators on both sides of the political aisle.

That was a few months later that I got the opportunity to meet Senator quarterback in Shelbyville on horse farm actually.

we started our relationship on common ground as governors and individuals who support gun ownership ownership.

For the many reasons that people want to own guns.

But also recognizing that we had a brewing problem in our country.

And that is these moments of crisis, whether it's what happened to me at 5th 3rd bank.

What happened to these innocent children and taxes or even incidence of suicide?

That could be prevented we really came to a place of common ground that we can do.

We can do something.

And so he joined in shortly and I'm very thankful for both of them and their ability to work together because both have had to sacrifice to get to a solution that works.

Yeah, we'll talk a little bit more in detail about what's called the crisis a version and rights.

>> and rights retention and just a moment.

But I do want to ask you Whitney about your gunmen where there are indications that there were some mental instability issues with the gunman and it was that a part of of your story and your experience?

>> Yeah, I do want to say that I don't think they investigated my situation enough that we could say 100%.

The crisis aversion and rates retention could have made a difference.

But in researching his history after the shooting, there were many in other states where he where law enforcement have been called in where he was court ordered into mental health treatment.

And so was similar with him.

Too many mass shooters is that there are warning signs and we see that 65% of the time MASH shooters week.

Their plans and so you have to approach this from 2 sides.

One side is as a society, we need to be better informed so that we can identify these warning signs we need to have better support so that we can.

We're for these people over systems and services that can help them in their time of crisis.

And then lastly, we need a tool.

We need a legal tool to temporarily transfer that firearm as they approach that crisis moment.

And so really all 3 of those come together and and while I can't say with certainty, it's it's certainly a possibility that this tool could have been used to prevent mass shooting.

>> And when you mentioned, that's a startling number, Whitney, that 65% of these mass shootings, there were signs warning signs left by that the perpetrator of these horrific crimes.

What do you think as a as a community member, we all should be doing if we hear something or see something.

It sounds like we should just say something.

Do you think that would make a tremendous difference?

>> It's a start.

You know, I think some people don't say something because they don't want to jump to conclusions or they would like to do it in an anonymous way.

And also they like to feel as if person they're concerned about would be given the support they need to be rehabilitated because that's an option here.

You know, there is an option to rehabilitate these people so that they don't end up in a crisis moment.

And unfortunately, we don't have the services the institutions necessary to really wrap our arms around these 2 people.

But until we get there and I certainly hope this is one of the things that Congress is working on right now.

You should still do something.

And as to what that something should be, it really depends upon the circumstances.

If it's a student, can go to the administration within the school, if it is someone that involve that law enforcement needs to be contacted, been contact law enforcement, but for God's sake, don't just keep it inside.

You.

We have the opportunity to prevent these moments.

>> Let's talk a little bit more in detail with me about the crisis aversion and rights retention policy proposal that you have worked with.

The 2 senators you mentioned before and probably will continue that work in the session of 2023. specifically, what is it designed to do and and how would it work?

In actuality?

>> So specifically it is designed to prevent crisis moments in crisis.

Moments are when someone is intent upon harming self like suicide or harming others.

In the case of mass violence could be domestic violence really could be anything.

And the way the process works is set up to ensure that there are many controls in place and that this is a targeted intervention that is meant just for high and risk people.

And so he's given this just because someone who is potentially suicidal make up that it's my brother.

And so in this instance, I would go to law enforcement, which is the first filter to say here's all my evidence as to concerns that my brother is going to hurt himself and all of my efforts up to this point to temporarily transfer the fire out of the home are now working.

I mean, some assistance and then it is law enforcement's responsibility to examine the evidence, assess the risk and determine is this is this real right to I need to move for us.

And if law enforcement does Dean that were they?

They would move it to the court system.

And so think of the district court judge who then under the responsibilities of the judge, certain burden of must at the judge, really even has the responsibility to determine should this order be issued.

And so if the judge determines the order should be issued, law enforcement has been tasked with going to my brother's home serving the order and then temporarily transferring a firearm for firearms for that matter out of his home.

My brother is then going to have the opportunity to have a hearing is going to have an opportunity to be represented in that hearing.

He can no provide whatever evidence through.

His attorney asked to why he agrees or disagrees with the order that has been placed for my example.

We're going to continue with no, he really a suicidal and nothing center.

It's been 2 weeks and it is not safe we unify re reunite him with that far.

And so at this point, there is another burden of proof, a higher level that needs to be minutes.

And then the judge determines do we extend it in this case?

The burden of proof is at the orders extended for up to one year and then this is a really important piece of legislation.

You know, there's pushback sometimes that you just temporarily transfer this firearm.

You have not stopped the problem.

The press pause you this highly lethal means that there's something within the person that has led them to this crisis moment.

So we're going to do about that.

And so that's another important piece of the legislation.

Is that services could be provided to ensure that that person gets the help that they need so that they can get back into back to play so much competition is safe.

And so that's how it works.

Yeah.

>> So that only PLA applies to gun ownership.

But there are other lethal weapons by which someone could choose to exercise, you killing or killings.

And you mentioned the temporary nature of after that year.

Would they be able to have permanent restoration of the possession of firearms or is there a constant reassessment of that person's stability to make that determination?

>> So with that second order, the judge is going to determine how long to extend it or in the maximum gusts up to one year.

As you get closer to that one year, Mark, if there's a reason to be concerned that one year isn't enough, requests can be made to the court to extend it and then the reverse can happen.

So it my brother you know, makes use of those services and he is no longer in a place that was suicidal thoughts and he could petition or, you know, honestly, but their purpose could work with them, assuming it is working with a therapist to petition a court together and then instead of it being a full year, it the reduced to a shorter period of time.

They're on ramps and off ramps for how to make this custom to the individual.

>> But there is a requirement or a court mandated treatment.

Is that correct?

That they seek a professional provider of some sort?

>> No, that's not So you have to start to wrap your mind around people in crisis moments.

Get there for different reasons.

Not everybody in a crisis moment struggling from a mental illness or has mental health issues such as it's because of its in their life and maybe they can benefit more from anger management therapy.

Maybe they could benefit from having access to employment.

And so there are any number of reasons.

The important piece of legislation is to encourage people and provide access to those resources but not to mandate that you would have to do any particular one.

>> Right.

So if they refuse outright than their firearms are not returned to them, correct.

>> Right.

But they would be returned to them even if they didn't make use of the services, the orders for whatever period of time the judge decides.

>> And when you mentioned about if there seem to be some suicidal ideation or tendency, but determining whether someone is homicidal.

Is that is clear.

Cut it.

>> Well, so this is where you have the bull, multiple filters in place.

So first, you have law enforcement deciding if that should move further and we feel many feel that law enforcement is the perfect group to assess that kind of risk.

And then if law enforcement determines that it should move forward, then it goes to the judge, which is also a great place to assess risk.

So it's up to those 2 groups to determine if this is really an imminent threat because that's part of the language.

This is not something that could happen 6 months for them.

This is right now imminent threat, a self or others right?

>> And if this legislation were to become adopted passed and signed into law, would there have to be some kind of expansion of the current judicial system or expansion of mental health courts to make sure these cases are adjudicated.

>> So we just told a panel with a local bar association and Judge Stephanie per participated the way it's written right now.

We're district courts that would handle these But there is some requests to come to consider additional ports, especially as you move into areas where there's just no less people in those positions.

So to provide some more support and more capacity that has not yet been written to >> And so we'll look for hopefully movement on this in 2023 when perhaps you have new sponsors of this legislation.

Did you hear from other lawmakers that, yes, this is the right thing to do and of course, when they April 14th, the Texas event had not occurred, but even during the session when maybe they hadn't had this top of mind because of an incident.

Were you hearing that those who might have been resistant because of their position on on gun rights and gun ownership?

We're coming around.

>> Every single week I had a new conversation.

It's not daily with someone as to why this was important for the state of Kentucky.

And so while we ended the session with the takes aim to senators that have been on our side from the beginning, that doesn't mean that there are conversations happening and senators getting closer to joining in the effort.

So what people should know about me is one.

I have this deep well of gratitude that keeps me going all never give up.

And I'm also an internal optimist and sort of had many, many good conversations, not ready to say that.

I have more senators but I don't think it will be much longer before I can say that right.

And we'll be following and hopefully we can have good news to report on that end.

>> You know, with the 5 minutes or so remaining I think the country is reeling and of course, Texas.

>> In the community affected.

I can't imagine their pain and losing so many people and such a short period of time and so young, I mean, we call him the innocence T S right for so many reasons.

And I just have to ask you about how do you emotionally heal from that level of trauma, whether you were directly impacted or indirectly, what would you say helps get you on a path to recovery when it comes to emotional and mental wellness.

>> You know, it's really important for me this year.

What I experienced is not what those closest to the victims experienced.

I got home.

I got reunited with my family.

Got to be a mother.

Again, a white thing in and so for me, it has always the eye and so grateful to God.

But I got back to the and it has not been about trauma and has that about hope and about making sure I can do everything within my power to prevent it from happening to others.

When it comes to those families in Texas.

I don't know what to say to them because it is my worst nightmare.

And I think if people were being honest, it is their worst nightmare.

So that is why it is incumbent upon elected officials who were put in that position to solve our problems to help solve our problems.

And this is a really big one.

Him.

>> I do think about your your children who are a little older now when they hear the news of these types of incidents.

>> Is is there a trauma for them and what could have been for their mom?

>> You know, you know, miners still little enough that I didn't even didn't know how to address this, but I didn't want them to hear about it at school away from, you know me and this safe, a safe place that are provided home.

So we did have a conversation about it and I surprise to, you know, you hear a lot from parents that have older children that this is just their generation, that they go to school with him.

Our hearts they know about the drills and they just been hard.

And in this way.

And I was really surprised that that's that sort of how it was received by my children, maybe not for the same reason.

But they've already seen their mother shot.

Right?

What innocents today have left.

And so it was a difficult conversation.

But I was thankful that it could be, you know, our family and that it didn't have outside of the safety of our home him.

You know, trying to to shield children from a harsh reality, but also letting them understand and know what the reality is.

>> I mean, what a balancing act that Whitney.

The one thing that I've learned about you and the last couple years I've you is that you are hopeful.

It's like that should be your middle name.

Hope and to found this purpose and your Did you ever think that you would be on this path?

I mean, hope you don't think this sounds.

Insensitive.

Has is your life.

Been enriched in some way or change for the positive in some way because you went through this.

>> Yes, I know.

That sounds weird.

How could anybody say I've been shot 12 times and I'm grateful.

Yeah, but doesn't make that there.

There's certainly things that I wish for.

I'm not the case.

I'm physically and mentally, but it I survived something that no one survives.

I have friends doing this work who were shot one or 2 times and are confined to a wheelchair for the rest of their life.

But somehow I got 12 and okay, I can walk and and second run.

And so.

No, I didn't imagine other ever do any of It was perfectly happy solving problems behind a computer.

I'm enjoying banking, but sometimes you get assigned message and you have to move forward with it.

And so that's what I'm doing.

And I'm sure we'll be ready.

He's watching is invested in that mission in support of that mission and will join in because Whitney Austin alone cannot make this country safer.

It takes all of us to raise your voices.

Your states centers and your representatives know that you're not okay with our kids being shot in schools and they want them to come together and find solutions to stop it.

Whitney Austin, those are fine words to end our conversation on.

Thank you for your advocacy.

Thank you for your hope and your gratitude.

>> To see you and hear you.

Certainly it is overflowing and I appreciate the work that you're doing will be following it along the way.

Thank you, Whitney.

>> Thank you.

>> Thank you for joining this edition of connections.

I'm Renee Shaw.

You can always follow us on Facebook, Twitter podcast.

You can listen to them there and see previous episodes of Connections on our website.

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