[♪♪] good evening.

Welcome to Kentucky Tonight.

I'm Renee Shaw.

Thanks for joining us.

Our topic tonight: Gun Laws.

Americans continue to debate what should be done about gun violence.

It’s proving to be another deadly year.

The Gun Violence Archive reports more than 18-thousand people have died in 2023, as a result of all gun violence.

That includes murders, homicides, accidental deaths, and suicides.

And there have been 276 mass shootings this year.

One of them: the Old National Bank shooting in Louisville, April tenth, where five people died.

Nickolas Wilt, an officer shot in the head while responding, continues to recover.

To discuss the pros and cons of new gun laws, we’re joined in Lexington, by: Rich Zimmer, president of the League of Kentucky Sportsmen; and Mark Bryant, executive director of the Gun Violence Archive.

Joining us from our Louisville studio: Whitney Austin, a mass shooting survivor and gun safety advocate.

And by SKYPE: State Senator Whitney Westerfield, a Republican from Fruit Hill and chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Over the weekend, gun safety advocates rallied to show support for victims of gun violence and their families.

On Saturday, we caught up with the Moms Demand Action group in Lexington.

>> ORANGE IS THE COLOR OF SAFETY.

SO PEOPLE KNOW WHEN THEY ARE HUNTING THAT WE DON'T SHOOT IN THAT DIRECTION.

SO WE WEAR ORANGE FOR OUR LOVED ONES THAT WE'VE LOST TO GUN VIOLENCE.

TODAY'S EVENT IS JUST ABOUT SUPPORTING SURVIVORS.

SURVIVORS ARE GOING TO BE GETTING UP AND TELLING THEIR STORIES.

IT IS A WAY FOR THEM TO LET THE INFORMATION THAT THEY WANT TO TELL ABOUT THEIR LOVED ONE BE TOLD.

THEY ARE ABLE TO TELL STORIES AND ABLE TO TALK ABOUT AND FEEL THE LOVE FROM PEOPLE AROUND THEM.

IT'S ALSO WHERE WE CAN COME TOGETHER AS SURVIVORS AND LOVE ON EACH OTHER BECAUSE OUR GROUP IS GROWING UNFORTUNATELY AND THERE'S STILL A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT DOESN'T KNOW WE HAVE THESE GROUPS THAT THEY CAN BE A PART OF.

AND HAVE SOMEONE WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE FEELING OR WHAT THEY ARE GOING THROUGH.

>> THERE HAVE BEEN 17,959 GUN VIOLENCE DEATHS IN THE YEAR OF 2023 WE ARE IN JUNE.

I STARTED WRITING THIS SPEECH A WEEK AGO TODAY WHEN I WROTE THE STATISTIC IT WAS 17,160.

THAT IS 799 DEATHS THIS WEEK.

>> I STARTED WORKING WITH THIS GROUP IN 2019.

MY SON SEAN HOWARD WAS MURDERED IN 2017 AUGUST FIFTH.

AND I TOOK SOMETIME TO GRIEVE.

AND A VERY, VERY, VERY DIFFERENT ANITA FRANKLIN REACHED OUT AND SAID YOU NEED TO BE A PART OF SOMETHING AND HELPED ME GET OUT OF THE HOUSE AND GET INTO SOMETHING.

SHE INTRODUCED ME TO THE LADIES OF MOMS AND INTRODUCED ME TO A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT COULD HELP IN THAT STEP AND MOMS HAS BEEN A BIG SUPPORT FOR ME, MY FAMILY, A LOT OF SURVIVORS IN LEXINGTON THEY ATTEND A LOT OF EVENTS, PEACE WALKS.

AND OUR BIG SUPPORT AND BACKERS TO HELP SAY, HEY, IF WE DON'T HAVE A VOICE ALONE WE HAVE A BIG ONE TOGETHER.

IT'S BASICALLY A LOT OF LOVING AND CARING PEOPLE WHO CAME TOGETHER AND DECIDED HEY WE'RE LOSING TOO MANY PEOPLE.

HOPEFULLY WE WILL BE ABLE TO SEND THE MESSAGE THAT WE'RE HERE IF YOU NEED US.

THERE'S PLENTY OF PLACES TO PLUG YOU IN AND GET YOU INVOLVED AND MOSTLY JUST TO MAKE THE PUBLIC AWARE THAT HEY, GUN VIOLENCE IS BECOMING SUCH A BIG EPIDEMIC WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING BECAUSE WE'RE LOSING SO MANY PEOPLE.

AND IT MAY NOT HAVE AFFECTED ONE PERSON'S FAMILY HERE OTHER THAN US SURVIVORS BUT YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TOMORROW AND THAT'S THE SCARY PART.

>> Renee: WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU TONIGHT ON THIS IMPORTANT TOPIC AND THOSE ARE THE WAYS ON THE SCREEN YOU CAN SEND US YOUR QUESTIONS BY TWITTER AT KY TONIGHT KET.

AN E-MAIL TO KY TONIGHT AT KET.ORG OR YOU CAN USE THE WEB FORM AT KET.ORG/KY TONIGHT OR CALL 1-800-494-7605.

WELCOME TO THE GUESTS BOTH YOU SEE THE QUAD BOX HERE IN LEXINGTON AND IN FRUIT HILL IN WESTERN KENTUCKY SENATOR WESTERFIELD AND MS. AUSTIN.

WE APPRECIATE EVERYONE'S TIME.

I WANT TO START WITH Mr. BRYANT FIRST YOU HEARD THE NUMBERS AND THEY WERE SAID PRETTY RAPIDLY.

YOU WANT YOU TO GIVE US CONTEXT OF THE NUMBERS AND HOW THIS YEAR SEEMS TO KEEP PACE OR OUTPACE PREVIOUS YEARS WHEN IT COMES TO GUN VIOLENCE.

>> 2021 WAS THE BENCHMARK THAT WAS THE HIGH NUMBER THAT WE THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO SEE.

2022 DROPPED A LITTLE BIT.

BUT AS WE'VE HIT 2023 WE ARE SEEING MORE MASS SHOOTINGS, WE'RE SEEING MORE PUNISH SHOOTINGS.

WE'RE SEEING MORE INDIVIDUAL SHOOTINGS A LOT OF EXTRA DOMESTIC VIOLENCE INCIDENTS.

AND SOMEWHERE IN THE RANGE OF 10-12% MORE AT THIS POINT IN THE YEAR AND THE BUSY SEASON STARTED THIS PAST WEEKEND.

>> Renee: EXPLAIN THAT.

WHY DO YOU SAY THE BUSY SEASON?

>> HISTORICALLY, THE FIRST THREE OR FOUR MONTHS OF THE YEAR ARE NOT AS BAD AND THEN JUNE, JULY, AUGUST, SEPTEMBER FROM MEMORIAL DAY THROUGH LABOR DAY, MORE PEOPLE ARE OUT, MORE PEOPLE ARE DRINKING MORE PEOPLE ARE JUST INTERACTING.

AND WITH ALL OF THAT, YOU HAVE MORE OPPORTUNITIES FOR FIGHTING.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SEEING WITH THAT.

YOU DON'T SEE THAT IN THE WINTER.

NOBODY IS OUT FIGHTING IN JANUARY.

THEY ARE NOT OUT AT PARKS THEY ARE NOT PLAYING BASKETBALL DOING ALL THE THINGS THAT THEN CAUSE ISSUES TO OCCUR.

SO WE'RE SEEING MORE THIS YEAR BEFORE MEMORIAL DAY THAN WE PREVIOUSLY HAD.

>> Mr. ZIMMER THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

IT'S YOUR FIRST TIME ON THE PROGRAM WE APPRECIATE YOU JOINING US.

WHEN YOU HEAR THOSE NUMBERS AND YOU KNOW YOU'VE HEARD THE TESTIMONY WE'VE HAD RECENT INCIDENTS IN OUR BACKYARD ESSENTIALLY IN KENTUCKY WITH WHAT HAPPENED AT OLD NATIONAL BEIGE ON APRIL 10TH.

WHEN YOU HEAR ABOUT THESE SOMEONE REPRESENTING THE SPORT MEN GROUP AND ADVOCATE FOR SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS WHAT DOES IT STRIKE YOU WHERE THE COUNTRY'S CONVERSATION NEEDS TO GO?

>> IT'S SCARY.

IT REALLY IS.

BUT I THINK WE NEED TO FOCUS ON THE EDUCATION AND WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHY EVERYBODY THE ANGER PART OF IT.

THE CONFLICT RESOLUTION IS THE BIGGER THING WE HAVE TO LOOK AT.

AND WHY ARE WE RESULTING IN USING WEAPONS TO KILL?

I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WE CAN'T HAVE CONFLICT RESOLUTION.

WHY WE CAN'T HAVE A TALK AND JUST SOMEBODY JUST GIVE SOMEBODY A KNUCKLE SANDWICH ANYMORE.

IT'S SCARY TO BE A PARENT WE WATCHED ON THE RALLY FOR THE PARENTS THERE IN ORANGE THEY HAD ONE UP IN THE NORTHERN KENTUCKY AREA OVER THE WEEKEND ALSO AND IT'S VERY ALARMING TO WHY WE'RE HAVING SO MUCH GUN VIOLENCE IN THE UNITED STATES AND IN THE KENTUCKY ALSO.

>> Renee: MANY PEOPLE AND SOME THAT WE SAW WEARING ORANGE WOULD SAY IF YOU REMOVE THE MEANS, WE WILL REDUCE THE NUMBERS.

YOU SAY TO THEM WHAT?

>> NO.

IT'S YOU CAN LOOK AT AUTOMOBILES AND KNIVES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

IT STILL AND I THINK I WILL SPEAK FOR ALL SPORTSMEN THROUGHOUT THE STATE THAT THE GUN IS LAYING ARREST.

IT'S NO DIFFERENT THAN A CAR.

YOU CAN KILL SOMEBODY WITH A CAR ALSO.

IT'S THE MOTIVE BEHIND THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE TO GET DOWN TO WHAT IS THE MOTIVE, WHAT IS THEIR WHY ARE THEY THINKING THE WAY THEY'RE THINKING THAT THEY HAVE TO USE A GUN TO RESOLVE THE SITUATION.

>> Renee: AND WE'LL TALK PERHAPS ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH AND THE CONNECTIONS THERE.

>> ABSOLUTELY THAT IS A BIG ONE.

>> .

>> AND EDUCATION.

>> YES.

I WANT TO GO TO YOU MS. AUSTIN YOU HAVE BEEN ON THIS PROGRAM AND OTHERS AT KET MANY TIMES.

AND I THINK OUR VIEWERS KNOW YOUR STORY AND YOUR HEROING EXPERIENCE WHEN YOU WERE SHOT 12 TIMES AT A CINCINNATI BANK AND WHEN LOUISVILLE HAPPENED ON APRIL 10TH I CANNOT IMAGINE THE THOUGHTS AND PERHAPS THE EXPERIENCES RELIVED FOR YOU.

TALK TO US ABOUT WHERE YOU THINK THIS CONVERSATION NEEDS TO GO AND EVEN IN LOUISVILLE PEOPLE WHO MIGHT HAVE BEEN RESISTANT TO HAVING A GUN SAFETY OR GUN REFORM CONVERSATION, ARE THEY COMING AROUND BECAUSE IT HAPPENED SO CLOSE TO HOME?

>> YEAH WHEN I THINK BACK ON APRIL 10TH I WAS IN A STATE OF DISBELIEF THAT ALMOST EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED TO ME HAD HAPPENED ALL OVER AGAIN IN MY HOMETOWN IN THE CITY THAT I LOVE.

AND YOU KNOW WITH GREAT TRAGEDY COMES OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO COME TOGETHER AND TO FIGURE OUT WHERE WE ARE ALIGNED ON THIS ISSUE AND WHERE WE CAN MAKE PROGRESS.

AND SO I CERTAINLY WANT TO SHARE THAT THERE ARE MANY VERY POSITIVE CONVERSATIONS HAPPENING WITHIN THE STATE LEGISLATURE IN FRANKFURT THAT MAKE ME BELIEVE THAT WE CAN SEE A CHANGE ON THIS ISSUE.

BUT IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO BALANCE THE RIGHTS OF GUN OWNERS BUT ALSO BALANCE THE RIGHTS OF EVERYDAY AMERICANS WHO WANT TO FEEL SAFE IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

AND WE JUST DON'T ANYMORE.

WE ARE LIVING IN AN ENTIRELY NEW WORLD AND WE NEED TO PUT PRECAUTIONS AND CONTROLS IN PLACE TO MAKE SURE WE'RE ALL SAFE.

>> Renee: AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT A PROPOSAL THAT YOU HAVE BEEN WORKING ON QUITE SOMETIME HERE IN KENTUCKY.

AND THIS GIVES ME AN OPPORTUNITY TO BRING IN MR. CHAIRMAN WESTERFIELD, SENATOR FROM FRUIT HILL.

THANK YOU YOU'RE CHAIRMAN OF THE SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE AND I KNOW YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH THESE ISSUES AND OTHERS.

WE KNOW THAT WE'VE HEARD THAT REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE THEY ARE HAVING CONVERSATIONS ABOUT HOW TO MOVE FORWARD.

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING ABOUT THE CLIMATE AND THE TEMPERATURE OF EMBRACING PERHAPS MAYBE NOT GUN REFORM BUT GUN SAFETY LEGISLATION AND DOES LANGUAGE REALLY MATTER WHEN WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION?

>> WELL, THANK YOU RENEE FOR HAVING ME ON.

WHAT I'VE HEARD IS CONSISTENT WITH WHAT YOU HEARD MS. AUSTIN SAY.

WHITNEY FRAMED THE ISSUE WELL.

YOU HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE CONCERNED ABOUT PROTECTING THE RIGHTS THAT WE HAVE AS AMERICAN CITIZENS ENSHRINED IN OUR CONSTITUTION CLEARLY, VERY PLAINLY AND BALANCING THAT WITH THE INTERESTS AND THE CONCERNS OF PUBLIC SAFETY AND CLEARLY THERE'S A CONCERN THERE.

AND Mr. ZIMMERMAN HIGHLIGHTED THE SAME ISSUE.

WE ARE IN AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE THERE'S A REACTION TO RESPOND TO WHATEVER ISSUES ARE TROUBLING US AS INDIVIDUALS WITH GUN VIOLENCE INSTEAD OF OTHER THINGS.

THAT THE LANGUAGE IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT, THOUGH.

AND IT REALLY ALL BOILS DOWN TO WHAT THE SECOND AMENDMENT ALLOWS.

AND YOU MAY HAVE HAD DESIGNS TO GET INTO THIS OR NOT, BUT WITH THE BREW INDECISION IN 22 AND THE CASE OUT OF THE FIFTH CIRCUIT OUT OF TEXAS, CURRENTLY ON APPEAL BEFORE THE U.S. SUPREME COURT, EVEN THE RESTRICTIONS WE ONCE HAD AND RENEE I'M SURE YOU ARE AWARE THE RAHIMMY CASE DEALS WITH THE RESTRICTIONS ON POSSESSION RATHER FOR THOSE THAT HAVE DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ORDERS ISSUED AGAINST THEM.

THAT HAS BEEN SOMETHING WE'VE USED IN KENTUCKY FOR MANY YEARS WITHOUT A LOT OF PUSHBACK WITHOUT ANY CONCERN.

AND NOW EVEN THAT RESTRICTION HAS BEEN PUT IN CHECK BY THE FIFTH CIRCUIT AND IS ON APPEAL BY THE U.S. SUPREME COURT AND PEOPLE ARE FILING BRIEFS AS OF A WEEK AGO.

THERE'S NO ARGUMENT SCHEDULED YET.

THE QUESTION WHAT THAT LANGUAGE LOOKS LIKE AND HOW WE CREATE PROTECTIONS IF WE CAN, THAT STRADDLE THE DIVIDE THERE IS VERY IMPORTANT.

AND PEOPLE VERY MUCH WANT TO PROTECT THE SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS AND VERY MUCH WANT TO CREATE GREATER PUBLIC SAFETY ARE CONCERNED VERY MUCH ABOUT THAT LANGUAGE.

>> Renee: I WANT TO BRING AND I KNOW THAT WHITNEY AUSTIN HAS BEEN A BIG PROPONENT OF THIS AND THAT IS THE CRISIS AVERSION RIGHTS RETENTION EFFORT.

AND THIS STARTED BACK WHEN MORGAN McGARVEY A DEMOCRAT AND SENATOR PAUL HORN BACK A REPUBLICAN FROM SHELBYVILLE WERE SERVING IN THE KENTUCKY GENERAL ASSEMBLY, AND YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH THIS MR. CHAIRMAN AS WELL AND WE'VE HAD CHUCK EDDIE FROM LEXINGTON WHO ASKED IF YOU SUPPORT THAT BILL THAT WOULD REQUIRE THE TEMPORARY REMOVAL OF FIREARMS FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE DEEMED TO BE A RISK TO THEMSELVES OR TO OTHERS.

MAKING SURE THAT DUE PROCESS RIGHTS ARE PROTECTED AS WELL.

IF YOU CAN TALK TO US ABOUT WHAT THAT EVEN MEANS FOR THE AVERAGE VIEWER WHO IS TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT DOES DUE PROCESS MEAN IN THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION?

>> I APPRECIATE THE QUESTION.

THE CAR BILL, I ACTUALLY VERY MUCH AM INTERESTED IN.

IT WAS MAY 24 OF LAST YEAR THE DAY OF THE UVALDE SHOOTING THAT I REACHED OUT TO LRC AND OPENED UP A BILL DRAFT I WILL START WITH SENATOR McGARVEY'S LAST VERSION AND NOW CONGRESSMAN'S McGARVEY'S LAST VERSION OF THIS AND ADJUST IT IN THE WAY THAT ADDRESSED THE DUE PROCESS CONCERNS.

WHAT THE VIEWER IS TALKING ABOUT IS THE VERY FIRST CRITICISM OF THE SO-CALLED RED CONFEDERATE LAWS THAT ARE -- RED FLAG LAWS IN STATES AROUND THE COUNTRY AND IT ALLOWS WITH A PETITION THAT MEETS A CERTAIN STANDARD IT ALLOWS A COURT TO HAVE AN EXPARTE HEARING.

IF I FELT RENEE SHAW WAS GOING TO DO SOMETHING DANGEROUS AND I WANTED TO FILE A PETITION TO HAVE HER GUNS REMOVED TEMPORARILY I COULD DO THAT AND HAVE THE HEARING IN FRONT OF THE COURT AND HAVE RENEE SHAW NOT THERE TO DEFEND HERSELF OR EXPLAIN HER SUFFICIENT OR EXPLAIN WHY SHE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO KEEP HER GUNS OR WHAT SAFETY MEASURES SHE MIGHT TAKE.

THAT HAPPENS WITHOUT YOU KNOWING.

THAT IS THE PROBLEM THAT RUNS AFOUL OF THE SECOND AMENDMENT.

THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS AND CONTINUE TO BE DISCUSSIONS AND DEBATES AND DRAFTS OF VERSIONS THAT TRY TO ADDRESS THAT CONCERN.

SO I'VE GOT A COUPLE DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF THE CAR BILL.

I WOULD LIKE TO THINK WE CAN COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT MEETS IN THE MIDDLE.

I'M LOOKING AT LAWS LIKE IT AROUND THE COUNTRY.

SO IT'S MY HOPE WE CAN DO SOMETHING THAT CREATES PROTECTIONS.

RENEE AS WE SIT HERE RIGHT NOW WE HAVE RESTRICTIONS ON GUN OWNERSHIP AND POSSESSION TODAY IN KENTUCKY AND AROUND THE COUNTRY THAT AREN'T IN THE CONSTITUTION.

IF YOU ARE A CONVICTED FELON YOU CANNOT HAVE A FIREARM.

THAT IS NOT IN THE CONSTITUTION.

SO THERE ARE LIMITATIONS AND RESTRICTIONS THAT EVERYONE BELIEVES ARE REASONABLE.

I THINK IT'S WORTH TALKING ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THERE ARE OTHER RESTRICTIONS THAT EVERYONE CAN AGREE ARE REASONABLE.

AND IF THAT MEANS WE NEED TO PUT A ROBUST PROTECTIONS IN FOR GUN OWNERS SO THEY ARE NOT DEPRIVED OF THEIR SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHT WHEN THEY HAVE NOT BEEN CONVICTED OF A CRIME.

>> Renee: Mr. ZIMMER YOU'VE HEARD THE CRISIS AVERSION OR CAR FOR SHORT IDEA EXPLAINED.

HOW DOES THAT SIT WITH YOU WHEN IT'S TRYING TO KEEP DANGEROUS LETHAL FIREARMS OUT OF THE HANDS OF THOSE WHO ARE NOT IN A STABLE POSITION TO POSSESS THEM?

>> IT'S DESIGNED TO DO THAT.

WE DON'T NEED FIREARMS BEING IN THOSE TYPE OF PEOPLE WITH MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES OR GOING THROUGH A CRISIS IN THEIR LIFE AT THE MOMENT.

BUT THAT IS WHERE I BELIEVE THAT ALSO OUR FRIENDS OUR NEIGHBORS AND FAMILY WE HAVE TO BE AWARE OF THOSE PEOPLE ALSO.

NO DIFFERENT THAN IF YOU SEE A FRIEND THAT MAY BE STARTING TO HAVE A DRINKING PROBLEM.

ARE YOU GOING TO SAY, HEY WHAT'S UP.

WE NEED TO BE AWARE OF THAT ALSO.

I AM IN FAVOR OF MAKING SURE THAT WE CAN TAKE CARE OF THOSE PEOPLE AND REMOVE THOSE WEAPONS IF THEY ARE IN A DANGER BUT WE NEED TO HAVE A GOOD DUE PROCESS TO MAKE SURE THAT PERSON IS ABLE TO REPRESENT THEMSELVES OR HAVE SOMEBODY REPRESENT THEMSELVES ALSO ON THAT.

SO THAT THEY CAN CAN SAY OK AM I HAVING JUST A BAD DAY OR THERE ARE PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THE GUN VIOLENCE THAT ARE JUST GOING TO GO AFTER THAT PERSPECTIVE ANOTHER WAY BECAUSE THEY A REVENGE FACTOR.

YOU DID SOMETHING TO ME, GUESS WHAT I WILL SAY YOU ARE A THREAT TO YOUR FAMILY AND THREAT TO YOUR KIDS AND NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN YOUR GUNS ARE REMOVED FROM YOUR HOME AND POSSIBLY SOMETHING EVEN WORSE.

YES.

>> Renee: MS. AUSTIN I WANT TO COME BACK TO YOU AND ASK YOU ABOUT THE DUE PROCESS CONCERNS AND AS WE RAMP UP THOUGH IT'S JUST JUNE, THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY WILL BE HERE JANUARY SECOND BEFORE WE KNOW IT.

WE KNOW IT WILL BE A ROBUST YEAR WITH BUDGET ET CETERA.

ARE YOU EMBRACING THE LANGUAGE CHANGES PERHAPS THAT WE INSURE THOSE DUE PROCESS CONCERNS ARE ADDRESSED?

OR IS IT A GAME-CHANGER FOR YOU IN WHAT YOU ORIGINALLY ENVISIONED?

>> I THINK THAT WE ARE OPEN TO HAVING CONVERSATIONS OF ANY KIND TO SEE HOW WE CAN MOVE FORWARD TO PROTECT KENTUCKIANS.

BUT THAT'S THE KEY PART OF THIS.

WE NEED TO PROTECT KENTUCKIANS.

WHAT PEOPLE DON'T ALWAYS UNDERSTAND IN THE STATE OF KENTUCKY IS THAT THE MAJORITY OF GUN DEATHS IN OUR STATE ARE ATTRIBUTED TO SUICIDE BY FIREARM.

AND THOSE RATES ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY HIGHER IN OUR RURAL AREAS THAN IN OUR URBAN AREAS.

IF WE'RE ALL HERE BECAUSE WE CARE ABOUT GUN OWNERS I AM A GUN OWNER I CARE ABOUT GUN OWNERS THEN WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE WE NEED A TOOL TO HELP THEM.

IN THE INSTANCE IN WHICH A FRIEND OR A FAMILY MEMBER CAN DO THAT TEMPORARY TRANSFER WITHOUT LEGAL INTERVENTION AWESOME.

DO IT.

BUT THERE ARE ALSO MANY INSTANCES IN WHICH THAT IS NOT GOING TO WORK.

IF WE CARE ABOUT GUN OWNERS IF WE CARE ABOUT PROTECTING THEM AND REDUCING GUN DEATHS IN THE STATE WE NEED A SOLUTION LIKE CAR.

SO I THINK, YES, BUT WE'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE WHEREVER WE LAND IT IS NOT HARMFUL IT'S ACTUALLY GOING TO PROTECT GUN OWNERS THAT ARE IN A CRISIS MOMENT.

>> Renee: Mr. BRYANT YOUR THOUGHT?

I KNOW YOU AND MS. AUSTIN OFTEN SPEAK YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH THIS CONCEPT OF CAR.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> I THINK IT IS A VERY GOOD FOUNDATION.

WE NEED TO LOOK AT IT.

I THINK THAT WE NEED TO SEE HOW WHEN WE LOOK AT DUE PROCESS WE HAVE TO LOOK AT IT IN AN EXPEDIENT WAY SOMETIMES AND THAT DOES NOT ALWAYS MAKE IT EASY FOR HAVING EVERYBODY SITTING IN THE COURTROOM.

WE LOOK AN INCIDENT THAT OCCURRED IN UTAH JUST A FEW WEEKS AGO.

A COUPLE MONTHS AGO NOW.

WHERE THEY WERE TRYING TO GET A RED FLAG LAW ADDRESSED FOR SOMEBODY THEY DID NOT GET IT DONE FAST ENOUGH AND HE ANNIHILATED HIS ENTIRE FAMILY OF SEVEN.

WE'VE GOT TO BE ABLE TO MOVE ON THIS.

WE CAN'T HIDE BEHIND I'M VERY ADAMANT WE CAN'T HIDE BEHIND THE SECOND AMENDMENT BECAUSE WE'RE HIDING BEHIND THE SECOND HALF OF THE AMENDMENT AND EVERYONE FORGETS THE FIRST HALF OF THE MILITIA PART AND WELL REGULATED.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THIS, WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT NOT ONLY HOW WE'RE GOING TO DEAL WITH DUE PROCESS AND HOW ARE WE DEALING WITH OUTSIDE INFLUENCES LIKE THE NRA WHO TAKES THE BILLS LIKE THE RED FLAG LAWS AND TIES THEM INTO KNOTS AND SENDS THEM INTO APPEALS COURTS AND DOES ALL OF THIS.

AND FUNDS THE CONFUSION THAT WE SEE IN ALL OF THESE BILLS RIGHT NOW.

AND THAT'S GOT TO BE RESOLVED.

>> Renee: SO I WANT SENATOR WESTERFIELD TO SPEAK TO THAT.

THE NRA NOT FAVORABLE TOWARD THE CAR APPROACH.

THAT MATTERS IN KENTUCKY, YES, SIR?

>> IT DOES.

I MEAN THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT.

THEY ARE NOT FOND OF ANY PROPOSAL THAT LIMITS IN ANYWAY A FREE CITIZEN TO GET A FIREARM.

BUT YOU KNOW THEY ARE ENTITLED TO ADVOCATE FOR WHAT THEY WANT AND NRA HAS A LOT OF MEMBERS JUST LIKE THE ADVOCATES FOR GUN CONTROL HAVE LOTS OF MEMBERS.

NONE OF THEM HAVE THE MARKET CORNERED ON BEING RIGHT 100% OF THE TIME.

JUST BECAUSE THIS LOBBY OR THAT LOBBY OR THIS GROUP OR THAT GROUP HAS INTEREST IN THE POLICIES WE'RE DEBATING DOESN'T MEAN WE DON'T HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT THE BILL SHOULD LOOK LIKE OR WHETHER THERE SHOULD BE A BILL AT ALL.

THERE IS A A PROBLEM IF THERE'S ANY ADVOCACY GROUP ON ANY ISSUE IF THEY ARE SO POWERFUL AND SO STRONG WE CAN'T HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT IT, I THINK THAT IS A PROBLEM.

BUT I CAN TELL YOU FROM FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE HAVING BEEN IN THE ROOM WITH THOSE CONVERSATIONS THAT THAT IS NOT HAPPENING.

IT DOESN'T MEAN THERE'S NOT A LOT OF RELUCTANCE BUT I CAN SAY THIS WHEN I GOT THE JOB 11 YEARS AGO THIS IS NOT A CONVERSATION PEOPLE WERE HAVING.

IT IS A CONVERSATION PEOPLE ARE HAVING NOW.

AND I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S ANYTHING GROUP ON EITHER SIDE CAN DID ANYTHING ABOUT THAT.

YOU HAVE A LOT OF LAWMAKERS IN BOTH PARTIES REPUBLICAN, TOO, WHO HAVE AN INTEREST IN FINDING SOME SORT OF MIDDLE GROUND HERE AND THAT IS WHERE GOOD POLICY CAN BE BORN.

IN FACT SOME OF THE BEST POLICIES ARE THE ONES IN THE MIDDLE ON ISSUES THAT ARE SO DIVISIVE AND PEOPLE GET FIRED UP ABOUT.

IF THERE IS A PATH DOWN THE MIDDLE THAT HONORS THE RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES IT'S WHAT MAKES THE CAR NAME SO PERFECT.

WE'RE TRYING TO AVERT VEEU CRISES AND RETAIN RIGHTS THAT CLEARLY EXIST IN OUR CONSTITUTION.

IS IT A POWERFUL GROUP?

SURE.

IS IT PERVASIVE?

SURE.

BUT THEY DON'T RUN THE PLACE.

AND THE PEOPLE THAT THEY'VE ENDORSED MYSELF INCLUDED IN PRIOR CAMPAIGNS ARE FREE TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT IT AND WE ARE.

>> Renee: I DO WANT TO ASK YOU BECAUSE WE WANT TO GET TO THOSE OTHER REASONABLE RESTRICTIONS PERHAPS THAT YOU WERE THINKING OF SENATOR WESTERFIELD AND MAYBE THERE'S CONVERSATIONS ABOUT.

BUT AFTER THE OLD NATIONAL BANK SHOOTING WE HEARD MAYOR CRAIG GREENBURG AND OTHERS CALL FOR THE FACT THAT A WEAPON THAT WAS USED, THE AR-15 THAT WAS USED TO.

>> I KNOW WHERE YOU ARE GOING.

I SUPPORT CHANGING THAT.

>> Renee: WE HAVE TO TELL OUR VIEWERS WHAT THAT IS AND -- SOMETIMES WE IS CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION WITHOUT USING ALL THE WORDS AND WE OFTEN DO BUT FOR OUR VIEWERS THE FACT THAT THAT GUN COULD BE RECYCLED THROUGH AUCTION AND PUT BACK ON THE STREETS AGAIN.

DO YOU THINK THAT THAT IS JUST A NO-BRAINER THAT THAT POLICY NEEDS TO CHANGE?

>> OF COURSE IT IS A NO-BRAINER.

I MEAN, THERE ARE PLENTY OF GUNS AND PEOPLE ARE FREE TO BUY GUNS ALL THE TIME.

I THINK IT IS OK FOR THESE GUNS SO LONG AS THE COURT PROCESS IS DONE.

IF THERE WERE A CRIMINAL CASE GOING ON, IT'S NOT GOING FOR FORFEITED YET.

I'VE BEEN A PROSECUTOR WHERE THE FIREARMS HAVE BEEN FORFEITED THAT EVENTUALLY ARE EITHER DESTROYED OR SOLD.

DIDN'T REALIZE THAT THAT WAS THE LAW AT THE TIME.

BUT I THINK THAT IS AN EASY REALLY LOW HANGING PIECE OF FRUIT THAT IS EASY TO GET AND CHANGE.

>> Renee: AND THAT WOULD BE A STATE LAW, RIGHT?

THE CITY OF LOUISVILLE JUST COULDN'T DO IT ON ITS OWN AND WE'VE HEAR MAYOR GREENBURG ASK FOR MORE AUTONOMY.

>> NO REASON WHY WE CAN'T PASS A LAW THAT DOES THAT.

I HAVEN'T TAKEN THE TEMPERATURE ON ANYONE IN THE CAUCUS AND I'VE HEARD IT DEBATED ON YOUR FINE PROGRAM WITH GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATES AND WAS AWARE OF IT IN THE NEWS COULD HAVE RENS PRIOR TOOTOO THAT THE I THINK IT IS AN EASY THING TO PASS.

>> Renee: Mr. ZIMMER WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT IS THAT A NO-BRAINER FOR YOU?

>> NO, IT'S REALLY NOT.

BECAUSE ONCE AGAIN THE PERSON PULLING THE TRIGGER THE DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND WILDLIFE HAS SURPLUS AUCTIONS AND CONFISCATED AUCTIONS ALL THE TIME.

THE PROCESS WITH THAT IS YOU HAVE TO BE VETTED TO MAKE SURE THE BACKGROUND CHECK BUT THE FUNDS ARE BEING REUSED FOR POSITIVE PURPOSES.

THE SALE OF THOSE FIREARMS THE SALE OF THOSE CONFITSIATED BOW AND ARROWS AND THE TREE STANDS USED IN AN ILLEGAL ACT OF TAKING A DEER OR WILDLIFE THOSE FUNDS ARE NOW REUSED IN THE STATE OF KENTUCKY FOR POSITIVE PURPOSES FOR HABITAT, FOR EDUCATION AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

IF WE NEED TO MOVE THAT FORWARD MAYBE WE CAN DO THAT.

>> HE IS NOT WRONG ABOUT THAT AND THE FORFEITURE FUNDS THAT ARE OBTAINED THROUGH THE ORDERS AND THROUGH THE SALE OF ANY SORT OF FORFEITED PROPERTY NOT JUST FIREARMS THEY DO FUND LAW ENFORCEMENT INITIATIVES AND TRAINING.

IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN PROSECUTORS USE IT FOR PROSECUTOR TRAINING IN THE OFFICES AND LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AND I FORGET WHAT THE PERCENTAGE BREAKDOWN IS IF THE COUNTY'S ATTORNEY'S OFFICE HEARS A FORFEITURE ORDER AND THERE'S CASH, I THINK IT'S SOME 85% GOES TO ONE AGENCY, 15% TO ANOTHER.

I FORGET WHAT THE BREAKDOWN IS.

HE IS NOT WRONG ABOUT THAT.

I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH FIREARMS THAT HAVE BEEN CONFISCATED BUT A MURDER WEAPON I THINK IS OK TO DESTROY.

>> Renee: AND SO THIS IS A HUGE REVENUE GENERATOR FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT?

AND THE NEXT QUESTION WOULD BE WOULD STATE LAWMAKERS BE WILLING TO REPLACE ANY DEFICITS THAT THOSE LOCAL LAW ENFORCERS WOULD ENDURE.

>> THIS ONE WOULD.

>> YOU ARE ACCOUNTED FOR.

BUT HAVE YOU CHECKED THE TEMPERATURE OF YOUR CAUCUS TO SEE IF THEY WOULD GO ALONG WITH AN IDEA.

>> IT HAS NOT COME UP AS A CONVERSATION WE HAVE NOT MET SINCE WE ADJOURNED.

THIS HAS NOT COME UP.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE REST OF THE GROUP STANDS WITH REGARD TO A MURDER WEAPON THERE WOULD BE BROAD CONSENSUS AND DEBATE ABOUT EXTENDING IT BEYOND THAT.

BUT WHATEVER THAT DOLLAR FIGURE IS, OF COURSE, WE SHOULD IF IT'S FOR TRAINING AND EQUIPMENT, THEY ARE A STATE AGENCY WHY AREN'T WE FUNDING THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE?

>> Renee: YES.

SO Mr. ZIMMER DOES IT MATTER THAT IT WAS USED IN THE ACT OF COMMITTING A MURDER WHETHER MULTIPLE OR SINGLE?

>> I THINK HE HAS A GOOD POINT THERE.

THAT JUST FOR THE SAKE OF THE VICTIMS AND THE VICTIMS' FAMILIES AND THINGS LIKE THAT, LET'S HOPE WE NEVER HAVE TO DO THAT IF IT WAS FOR A MURDER WEAPON.

LET'S HOPE WE NEVER EVER HAVE TO HAVE ONE.

BUT I THINK THAT THAT MAY BE A THAT CIRCUMSTANCE I THINK THAT WOULD BE WORKABLE FOR MOST PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THE VIOLENCE THAT THAT ONE WEAPON OCCURRED AND THE ABILITY OF IT AND IT'S GOING TO GIVE CLOSURE PROBABLY TO THE FAMILY ALSO.

>> Renee: MS. AUSTIN YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT PARTICULAR IDEA?

>> YES.

I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU.

I THINK IT IS A GOOD EXAMPLE TAKING SOMETHING THAT COULD PUSH US INTO OUR CORNERS AND NOT FIND A SOLUTION IN THAT BRIEF EXCHANGE WE GOT TO A GOOD PLACE WHICH IS FOR THE SPECIFIC SCENARIO PUTTING THE VICTIMS FIRST AND DOING WHAT IS NECESSARY TO HELP THEM HEAL AND THEN ALSO PUT THE WHEELS IN PLACE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT A NEW REVENUE STREAM COULD BE TO TAKE CARE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT WHICH IS ALSO REALLY IMPORTANT TO ME.

I JUST WANT TO GIVE AN EXAMPLE THERE.

WE KIND OF WORKED THROUGH THAT.

AND I THINK WE COULD GET TO A GOOD SOLUTION.

>> Renee: EVERY NOW AND THAT THAT HAPPENS ON KENTUCKY TONIGHT.

NOW I WILL MOVE INTO PLACES PROBABLY IT WILL BE TOUGHER TO GET TO THAT POINT.

BUT WE HAVE GOOD QUESTIONS COMING IN.

THIS QUESTION FROM AN ANONYMOUS VIEWER WHY CAN'T WE MAKE GUN OWNERS RESPONSIBLE PERHAPS WITH A FINE WHEN A GUN IS LOST, STOLEN OR SOLD AND LATER USED IN A CRIME.

SENATOR WESTERFIELD?

>> WELL, THERE ARE ALREADY PENALTIES THAT WE HAVE ON THE BOOKS FOR PEOPLE WHO CARELESSLY USE FIREARMS OR RECKLESSLY USE FIREARMS OR ALLOW THEM TO BE USED BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T STORE THEM PROPERLY OR I CAN THINK OF A HANDFUL OF CASES RIGHT NOW WHERE A JUVENILE GOT AHOLD OF A FIREARM OR ANOTHER FAMILY MEMBER AND THREATENED TO USE IT THERE ARE CRIMINAL CHARGES THAT EXIST FOR THAT.

ENFORCEMENT OF THAT IS A DIFFERENT QUESTION.

AND I DIRECT YOU TO YOUR LOCAL COUNTY AND COMMONWEALTH'S ATTORNEYS TO MAKE SURE IT'S BEING ENFORCED.

THE GENTLEMAN Mr. ZIMMER MENTIONED IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN HE TALKED ABOUT EDUCATION.

I THINK THAT IS ALSO IMPORTANT.

I GREW UP RESPECTING FIREARMS AND FEARING FIREARMS A HEALTHY FEAR, I THINK.

THEY WERE KEPT IN A SECURE LOCATION AND I COULDN'T GET THAT WITHOUT PERMISSION FROM MOM OR DAD.

AND THAT'S THE KIND OF HOME THAT I'M BRINGING MY CHILDREN UP IN.

BUT THAT IS NOT THE CASE EVERYWHERE.

IT'S WORTH HAVING A CONVERSATION ABOUT IF THERE ARE PROPOSALS AND THERE HAVE BEEN IN THE PAST.

I KNOW SENATOR KNEEL FILED ONE HE MADE I DON'T THINK HE'S FILE TO DO EVERY YEAR BUT A NUMBER OF TIMES IN THE PAST REGARDING A SAFE STORAGE.

I THINK THAT'S A CONVERSATION WORTH HAVING.

IT GETS TRICKY BECAUSE YOU DO NOT WANT TO INTERFERE WITH ONE'S ABILITY TO PROTECT THEIR HOME IF IT BECOMES CUMBERSOME TO ACCESS WHEN YOU NEED IT THE MOST YOU'VE HURT A HOMEOWNER OR SOMEONE THAT NEEDS TO USE A FIREARM IN A JUSTIFIABLE WAY.

AGAIN THERE IS A DIFFICULT BALANCING ACT THERE.

YOU HAVE TO FIND THE MIDDLE COURSE.

I'M OPEN TO HAVING THE CONVERSATIONS.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ANSWERS LOOK LIKE TODAY BUT I'M WILLING TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION, FOR SURE.

>> Renee: Mr. BRYANT WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

WOULD MAKING GUN OWNERS RESPONSIBLE WHETHER THAT IS FINE OR USED IN THE COMMISSION OF A VIOLENT CRIME EVEN STIFFER PENALTIES THAN THAT?

>> I AM VERY MUCH AN ADVOCATE THAT THE GUN OWNER NEEDS TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR PROPER STORAGE OF THEIR WEAPONS.

THE SENATOR SUGGESTED THAT IF THEY ARE REQUIRED TO LEGALLY STOW IT TO WHERE IT TAKES AN EXTRA THREE SECONDS TO GET THAT THAT IS GOING TO BE THE DIFFERENCE.

AND WE KNOW THAT'S NOT THE CASE IF SOMEONE IS BREAKING INTO A HOUSE.

THAT THERE'S VERY QUICK ACCESS TO THESE GUNS.

NOW, THE PROBLEM THAT WE SEE IS SO MANY GUNS ARE NOT PROPERLY STOWED.

PEOPLE KEEP THEM IN THEIR CAR.

THEY DON'T LOCK THEIR CAR.

THE GUNS GET STOLEN.

THE GUNS END UP IN BALTIMORE IN NEW YORK AND CHICAGO AND PEOPLE DIE BECAUSE NOBODY'S WILLING TO PROPERLY STOW THEIR GUNS AND LEGISLATURE JUST DOESN'T THEY DON'T WANT TO PUSH THAT.

THEY LEAN BEHIND THE SECOND AMENDMENT AGAIN.

THAT THAT IS AN INFRINGEMENT WHICH IT IS NOT.

BUT IT SUGGESTS THAT THEY ARE MORE INTERESTED IN LAYS SAY FAIR WHEN IT COMES TO GUNS AND AN ABSOLUTE OPPOSITE WHEN THEY ARE DISCUSSING SOME OTHER SOCIALLY SIGNIFICANT SUBJECTS.

AND THAT'S FRUSTRATING TO SEE.

BECAUSE PROPER STORAGE IF YOU QUIT -- IF YOU HAVE PROPERLY STOWED GUNS TWO THINGS HAPPEN YOU HAVE FEWER STOLEN GUNS AND FEWER CHILDREN WHO FIND DADDY'S GUN THAT HE DIDN'T LOCK UP AND THEY BLOW THEIR FACE OFF.

SO WE HAVE FEWER OF THOSE.

AND I'M KIND OF OF THE OPINION THAT WE NEED FEWER KIDS SHOOTING THEMSELVES WITH DADDY'S GUN BECAUSE THAT DOESN'T -- DAD DOESN'T WANT TO PROPERLY STOW IT.

>> Renee: Mr. ZIMMER?

>> THERE'S RESPONSIBILITY WITH OWNING A GUN ABSOLUTELY.

WHEN YOU ARE A YOUNGSTER AND THEY DO A LOT WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND WILDLIFE THROUGH EDUCATION AND PROPER WAYS TO HANDLE THE FIREARM OR WHETHER IT BE A BOW OR A KNIFE OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE ABSOLU ABSOLUTELY.

THERE IS A REASON THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT WEARS THEIR GUN ON THE HIP BECAUSE IT NEEDS TO BE READILY QUICKLY AVAILABLE.

BUT I AGREE IT NEEDS TO BE WITH THE NEW TECHNOLOGY IF YOU DON'T HAVE TO PUNCH IN BUTTONS THEY HAVE NEW SAFES THAT YOU CAN HIT YOUR THUMB PRINT AND IT WILL POP OPEN.

AND I DON'T KNOW THE STATISTICS BUT THE AMOUNT OF HOME INVASIONS WHERE YOU NEED TO GET THAT GUN LICK KITY FLIGHT ARE PROBABLY SLIM BUT THAT ALL STARTS IN THE HOME AND WITH THE RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNER.

AND THE RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNER IS GOING TO HAVE A SAFE.

THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE THEIR GUNS LOCKED UP FOR THE REASON THAT THEY DON'T WANT THEM TO BE STOLEN AND IF YOU HAVE A NICE SAFE AND GOT THAT SOMEBODY COMES TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOUSE THEY WILL SEE YOU HAVE A SAFE, THEY ARE GOING TO GO TO THE GUY NEXT DOOR AND START LOOKING THAT WAY.

ABSOLUTELY.

EVERYBODY NEEDS TO BE A ADVOCATE FOR GUN SAFETY AND TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE A PROPER TRAINING OF THAT.

AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THIS DAY AND AGE YOU CAN GO AND BUY A WEAPON RIGHT OUT OF SPORTSMAN WAREHOUSE OR BASS PRO AND THERE'S REALLY THEY DON'T MAKE YOU TAKE A SAFETY COURSE.

>> Renee: THAT IS MY NEXT QUESTION.

WHEN KENTUCKY PASSED THE PERMITLESS CARRY LAW IN 2019 AND WE ARE ONE OF 26 STATES THAT HAVE THAT BUT THERE'S NO TRAINING REQUIREMENT, RIGHT?

>> BUT THAT'S WHERE THE RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNER NEEDS TO TAKE THAT UPON THEMSELVES TO GO AND DO THAT ALSO.

YOU KNOW, I HAVE MY CONCEAL CARRY PERMIT I WENT THROUGH THE TRAINING AND THEY TEACH YOU HOW NOT JUST WHERE AND WHERE YOU CANNOT HANDLE IT, BUT HOW TO HANDLE THE FIREARM AND WHAT TO DO IN SITUATIONS WHEN TO SHOW YOUR FIREARM AND WHEN TO NOT.

BECAUSE THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT.

>> Renee: IT'S ALSO PROTECTION FOR THE GUN OWNER AND SENATOR WESTERFIELD I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THAT, IT SEEMS LIKE SHOULD THAT NOT HAVE BEEN A COMPONENT OF THAT PERMITLESS CARRY LAW TO REQUIRE THAT TYPE OF EDUCATION AND TRAINING TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S PROTECTING THE GUN OWNER THEMSELVES OR TO WERE BRYANT'S POINT A CHILD DOESN'T GET IT AND DO DEADLY HARM?

>> YEAH, THAT WAS IF MEMORY SERVES CORRECTLY DEBATED QUITE A BIT AT THE TIME INTERNALLY.

IT MAY NOT ALL MADE IT TO THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE FLOOR BUT THERE WAS A LOT OF DISCUSSION AND THE ADVOCATES FOR AND AGAINST THAT BILL WERE BRINGING THAT ISSUE UP.

I THINK THERE IS A GOOD ARGUMENT FOR REQUIRING SOME SORT OF FUNDAMENTAL BASIC TRAINING INVOLVED LIKE YOU HAVE TO DO WHEN YOU GET A CARRY CONCEAL DEADLY WEAPON I HAVE A LICENSE THOUGH WE DON'T NEED IT ANYMORE.

AND IT ALSO THAT SAME TRAINING Mr. ZIMMER IF YOU RECALL YOU HAD TO FIRE THE FIREARM WITH SOME DEGREE OF LIKE A BASIC PROFICIENCY OF SOME KIND BEFORE YOU CAN GET THE PERMIT.

I THINK THAT IS A GOOD THING.

THE ARGUMENTS AGAINST IT ARE NOT TO GIVE OUR GUN VIOLENCE DATA GENTLEMAN ANY ADDITIONAL ARGUMENTS HERE, BUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT TRAINING.

IT DOES SAY KEEPING OF A WELL REGULATED MILITIA WHICH YOU COULD ARGUE INDICATES TRAINING.

AND AGAIN PEOPLE MADE THAT CASE.

I WOULD BE OK WITH SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

PARTICULARLY FOR YOUNGER FOLKS OR FOLKS THAT NEVER OWNED A FIREARM BEFORE THAT IS THE RESPONSIBLE THING TO DO.

BUT OBVIOUSLY THAT WASN'T A PREVAILING THOUGHT IT DID NOT MAKE IT INTO 2019 AND WHENEVER THAT YEAR WAS THAT DIDN'T MAKE IT INTO THE BILL.

>> Renee: I THINK IT WAS 2019.

MS. AUSTIN, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT REASONABLE RESTRICTIONS AND THE REALITY IS THAT KENTUCKY HAS EXPANDED ACCESS TO GUNS AND EXPANDED SOME WOULD SAY ACCESS TO SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS AND RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS IS THAT GOING IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION IN YOUR VIEW WHERE THE STATE SHOULD BE GOING CONSIDERING WHERE WE ARE WITH GUN VIOLENCE DEATHS?

>> I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO START WITH COMMON GROUND.

AND I'M NOT SURE THAT IS WHERE WE STARTED WHEN WE PASSED PIECES OF LEGISLATION IN THE PAST.

I THINK WE WERE VERY MUCH LOOKING TO EXTEND THE RIGHTS OF GUN OWNERS AND NOT AT ALL CONSIDERING THE RIGHTS OF EVERYDAY AMERICANS WHO NEED TO BE PROTECTED.

COMMON GROUND IS WHERE WE WENT.

COMMON GROUND IS WHERE WE MAKE PROGRESS.

SO I THINK THERE ARE A WHOLE HOST OF POLICIES THAT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED AT THIS TIME THAT DO THE RIGHT BALANCE OF PROTECTING THE SECOND AMENDMENT AND ALSO MAKING OUR COMMUNITIES SAFER.

BUT IN ALL THESE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT WHERE WE CAN MEET IN THE MIDDLE IT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT WE JUST LIVE IN AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT ENVIRONMENT THAN WE DID RELATIVE TO GUNS, RELATIVE TO MENTAL HEALTH THAN WE DID IN THE PAST.

IN THE 1980s AND THE 1990s.

WE KNOW THAT WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF A YOUTH MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS.

AND WE'VE SEEN FIREARM SUICIDE RATES WITH OUR YOUTH INCREASE 66% IN THE LAST 10 YEARS.

MARK HAS TOLD YOU ABOUT THE INCREASED LEVELS IN MASS SHOOTINGS.

WE'RE JUST NOT WHERE WE ONCE WERE.

SO GUN OWNERS WHO I TRULY BELIEVE ARE MOSTLY RESPONSIBLE, YOU NEED TO BE THINKING ABOUT THOSE GUN OWNERS AMONGST YOU WHO ARE IRRESPONSIBLE THAT ARE FALLING DOWN ON THEIR JOB AND THEY ARE ALLOWING THEIR FIREARMS TO BE PICKED UP BY THEIR SUICIDAL YOUTH FOR PURPOSES OF SUICIDE.

THEY ARE ALLOWING THE FIREARMS TO BE PICKED UP BY TROUBLED YOUTH THAT END UP IN A POSITION OF WANTING TO COMMIT AN ACT OF MASS VIOLENCE.

ARE YOU LEAVING YOUR FIREARMS NOT SAFELY STORED IN YOUR CAR SO THAT THEY CAN BE STOLEN AND USED FOR CRIMINAL PURPOSES.

WE JUST HAVE TO THINK DIFFERENTLY ABOUT THIS ISSUE.

BECAUSE CERTAINLY THERE ARE IRRESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS AMONG US AND NONE OF US ARE SAFE.

NONE OF US ARE SAFE BECAUSE THEY ARE OUR WEAKEST LINK.

>> Renee: MS. AUSTIN I WILL POSE THIS TO YOU WOULD THIS NOT PERHAPS MAKE A GOOD PUBLIC SERVICE CAMPAIGN FOR FOLKS WHO ADVOCATE FOR BIPARTISAN APPROACHES TO GUN SAFETY, TO PARTNER WITH THE NRA TO HAVE ADS THAT TALK ABOUT RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERSHIP.

WHAT ARE THE CHANCES YOU GIVE FOR THAT KIND OF COLLABORATION TO HAPPEN?

>> OF COURSE, I SAY I WILL WORK WITH ANYBODY THAT IS SET UPON DOING GOOD.

AND WE HAVE NOT PARTNERED WITH THE NRA BUT WE HAVE REGULARLY PARTNERED WITH THE NATIONAL SHOOTING SPORTS FOUNDATION TO DISTRIBUTE GUN LOCKS AND EDUCATE PEOPLE ON THE WARNING SIGNS OF SUICIDE.

SO, YES, I WOULD WORK WITH ANYBODY TO DO GOOD.

AND THAT INCLUDES BOTH LEGISLATIVE AND NON-LEGISLATIVE SOLUTIONS.

>> Renee: Mr. ZIMMER IS THAT A CAMPAIGN YOU COULD GET BEHIND WITH THE KENTUCKY SPORTSMEN?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I AM INVOLVED IN QUITE A FEW CLUBS THAT DO A LOT OF YOUTH EVENTS.

AND WE BASICALLY TEACH THE SAFETY TO YOUNGSTERS AND KIDS, 10, 11, 12 YEARS OLD HOW TO HANDLE A GUN.

THE PROPER WAYS TO POINT THE GUN AND WHAT IT CAN DO.

BECAUSE THAT IS A DEADLY WEAPON.

THERE IS A RESPONSIBILITY WITH THAT.

BUT ABSOLUTELY.

SO WHEN WE HAVE THESE EVENTS WHETHER WE'RE HAVING ONE IN JULY CALLED QUAIL FOR EVERYONE.

WE HAVE 400 KIDS THERE AND WE WILL HAVE MEMBERS FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND WILDLIFE AND MEMBERS FROM SHOOTING SPORTS IT IS A HUGE EXPOSURE.

WE WILL HAVE NORTHERN KENTUCKY STRAIGHT SHOOTERS A LOT OF OLDER GENTLEMEN THAT WILL TAKE THE TIME TO PROPER INSTRUCT CHILDREN ON HOW TO USE THAT FIREARM AND WHAT IS THE PROPER WAY TO DO THAT.

ALONG WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND WILDLIFE SO THEY CAN HAVE YOUR SHOOTING TEST FOR YOUR ORANGE CARD WHICH YOU HAVE TO HAVE TO BE A LICENSED HUNT ARE IN THE STATE OF KENTUCKY.

>> Renee: I WANT TO COME BACK TO A QUESTION THAT WE GOT FROM A VIEWER.

FROM BRYANT DO YOU HAVE QUALMS ABOUT A 10 OR 11-YEAR-OLD BEING PROPERLY TRAINED ON USING A FIREARM?

>> I DO NOT THINK IT'S TOO YOUNG I WAS TRAINED AT 10, 11, 12 YEARS OLD.

THE FIRST TIME I SHOT WAS A SUNDAY AFTERNOON THAT WE WOULD GO OUT TO THE GARBAGE DUMP AND SHOOT RATS AND I WAS FIVE.

AND SO THAT IS WHAT ALL THE DADS DID.

THERE WAS NO CABLE TV THERE WAS NO GOLF.

>> .

>> Renee: AND THERE WAS NO RAT PROBLEM.

>> AND THERE WAS NO RAT PROBLEM AT THE GARBAGE DUMP.

WE WERE ABLE TO DO THAT.

AND I LIKE THE IDEA OF BOY SCOUTS OR OTHER YOUTH GROUPS TEACHING THAT SAFETY.

IT'S DONE IN A CONFINED SPACE.

IT'S CONTROLLED.

AND EVERYBODY LEARNS FROM THAT.

AND STATISTICS HAVE SHOWN SINCE THAT MY JOB, THEY ARE VERY, VERY, VERY FEW INCIDENTS OF VIOLENCE IN THOSE TRAINING EXERCISES.

>> IT GETS THE YOUTH TO DEVELOP THE CORRECT HABIT BEFORE THEY GET TO 15, 16, 17 AND THEN THEY HAVE THERE ARE BAD HABITS OR THEY THINK THEY KNOW BUT THEY DON'T KNOW.

>> Renee: IT TEACHES THEM A HEALTHY FEAR.

>> ABSOLUTE SLY.

>> .

>> Renee: THIS QUESTION FROM KATHY HOBART, WHY DOES ONLY THE U.S. HAVE THIS EPIDEMIC OF GUN VIOLENCE?

MORE THAN ANY OTHER INDUSTRIALIZED NATION EXCEPT FOR CONFLICT AND WAR RIDDEN AREAS IT'S BEEN PROVEN THAT WE HAVE MORE GUN VIOLENCE THAN ANY OF THOSE INDUSTRIALIZED NATIONS?

>> I THINK SOME OF IT IS OUR EDUCATION AND THE WAY THAT OUR YOUTH THIS DAY AND AGE HAS CONFLICT RESOLUTION AS I SAID BEFORE.

WE HAVE WE USED THE WORD EPIDEMIC ESPECIALLY IN THE TEENS.

WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO HANDLE OUR PROBLEMS WE'RE GOING THROUGH IN LIFE.

AND I THINK THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS AND THE FACT THAT WE DON'T HAVE A SIMPLE CONVERSATION WE TALKED ABOUT THIS EARLIER, NOBODY WANTS TO HAVE A FACE TO FACE CONVERSATION EVERYTHING IS THROUGH SOCIAL MEDIA AND EVERYTHING LIKE THAT ANYMORE.

AND I BELIEVE THAT IT'S THE ONLY WAY THAT THEY KNOW TO FIGURE SOMETHING OUT ANYMORE.

AND IT'S EITHER ME OR YOU AND YOU'RE DONE.

WE CAN'T FIGURE OUT WE CAN'T GET TO THE COMMON GROUND.

IT'S EITHER I'M RIGHT OR YOU'RE RIGHT AND THAT IS NOT HOW IT WORKS.

>> THERE ARE 256 SHADES OF GRAY.

>> SENATOR?

>> I THINK WE'VE ALSO CONTINUED TO ESCALATE WITH EACH ONE OF THE SHOOTINGS EVERY TIME ONE HAPPENS WE BECOME ANOTHER DESENSITIZED TO IT AND OUR CHILDREN BECOME MORE DESENSITIZED TO IT.

IT BECOMES LESS OR MAYBE NOT LESS IS THE RIGHT WORD IT BECOMES MORE NATURAL OR MORE LIKE THE THING TO DO OR THAT'S THE ONLY SOLUTION OR THE ONLY RESOLUTION OR THE WAY THAT I CAN ACHIEVE WHATEVER I'M DEALING WITH.

AND WE HAVE NOT YET SPOKE BEN MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES BUT BEHAVIORAL HEALTH IS A HUGE COMPONENT I DON'T WANT THAT IS THE OTHER THING Mr. BRYANT TALKS ABOUT PEOPLE HIDING BEHIND THE SECOND AMENDMENT I THINK WE DO BECAUSE THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS THERE AND THAT IS WHAT THE LAW REQUIRES AND THE CONSTITUTION PROTECTS THAT RIGHT.

BUT I ALSO WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T JUST PUT ALL OF OUR EGGS IN THE BEHAVIORAL HEALTH BASKET EITHER.

BUT TO IGNORE IT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM AS WELL.

THERE ARE AND YOU CAN THE PANDEMIC DIDN'T HELP WITH THIS AT ALL, BUT SUICIDE RATES ARE CLIMBING.

THE INCIDENTS OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, DRUG ABUSE AND DRUG OVERDOSES WENT UP DURING THE PANDEMIC.

THEY WEREN'T ALL GLOWING STATISTICS BEFORE THE PANDEMIC TO BEGIN WITH.

AND WITH EACH ONE OF THESE NEW EVENTS WHICH SEEMS TO COME WITH GREATER FREQUENCY I THINK IT ESCALATES AND GETS EVEN DEEPER AND DARKER.

THAT SCARES ME.

AND THAT REALLY BOTHERS ME.

WHEN I REACHED OUT TO MAKE THAT BILL REQUEST ON MAY 24 WHICH STRUCK ME SO MUCH WASN'T BECAUSE IT WAS ANOTHER SCHOOL SHOOTING SADLY WE HAVE TO REFER TO IT AS ANOTHER SCHOOL SHOOTING BUT BECAUSE THAT TIME I IMAGINED MY CHILDREN IN THAT ENVIRONMENT AND THAT TROUBLES AND SCARES ME EVEN NOW.

BUT THAT'S WHAT OUR CHILDREN ARE ACCUSTOMED TO.

WHEN I WENT TO SCHOOL WE WHAT WAS AN ACTIVE SHOOTER DRILL?

AND NOW THOSE ARE PART THAT IS ROUTINE FOR SCHOOLS TO HAVE.

THE ENVIRONMENT WHITNEY TALKED ABOUT THIS, TOO THE ENVIRONMENT WE LIVE IN TODAY IS WILDLY DIFFERENT FROM THE ONE WE HAD 30 AND 40 AND 50 YEARS AGO.

>> Renee: YES.

ABSOLUTELY THAT ACTIVE SHOOTING DRILLS WERE NOT PART OF THE LEXICON PARTICULARLY WHEN I WAS GROWING UP.

I DO WANT TO GET TO THAT POINT.

SENATOR WESTERFIELD THAT YOU MAKE BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT THE SHOOTER IN THE LOUISVILLE BANK SHOOTING HE LEFT A COUPLE OF NOTES.

AND ONE OF THE NOTES REVEALED THAT PART OF HIS GOAL WAS TO SHOW HOW EASY IT WAS IN AMERICA FOR SOMEONE WHO IS STRUGGLING WITH A MENTAL ILLNESS A SERIOUS MENTAL ILLNESS TO BUY AN ASSAULT STYLE WEAPON.

NOW LET'S HAVE THAT CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT DOES THE MENTAL HEALTH COMPONENT LOOK LIKE.

AND FOR MANY PEOPLE A RED FLAG LAW IS THE PLACE THAT GO TO IN THINKING ABOUT THAT.

HELP US THINK OF THAT MORE BROADLY?

>> I THINK THE CAR BILL IS EXACTLY WHY THAT'S A PERFECT PLACE TO START FOR A RESPONSE.

YOU'RE TRYING TO INTERVENE BEFORE SOMEBODY HAS THAT SORT OF EPISODE.

IT'S GETS TO THE CRUX OF THE PROBLEM.

IF YOU WERE TO DO SOMETHING THAT IS A STANDARD RED FLAG LAW THAT YOU SEE IN OTHER STATES, IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT THE CAR BILL IS TODAY OR WHAT THEN SENATOR McGARVEY HAD IT'S THAT EXPARTE HEARING00 THE GUN IS WITHDRAWN.

THAT IS THE SAFEST PATH.

YOU RUN THE RISK THAT Mr. ZIMMER TALKS ABOUT THAT A JUDGE THAT REALLY AS AN AXE TO GRIND GRANTS A PETITION THAT MAYBE ON THE EDGE IFY OR LEGITIMATE.

AND I THINK THAT'S BOUND TO HAPPEN JUST LIKE YOU SEE IN OTHER CASES.

BUT IT'S PROBABLY A SMALL MINORITY OF CASES.

BUT FOR THE CASES WHERE THERE IS A LEGITIMATE ISSUE YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO INTERVENE BEFORE SOMETHING HAPPENS.

IF YOU REMOVE THAT EXPARTE HEARING WHICH WOULD PROTECT YOU UNDER THE SECOND AMENDMENT THEN YOU WOULDN'T HAVE THE SECOND AMENDMENT PROBLEM BUT THEN YOU RUN THE RISK OF NOTIFYING THE PERSON YOU ARE WORRIED HAS BEHAVIOR HEALTH ISSUE MAYBE ON THE VERGE OF A PSYCHOTIC BREAK OR SOMETHING YOU MIGHT PROMPT THEM TO DO IT IF YOU ARE GIVE THEM NOTICE IN ADVANCE WE THINK THERE'S A PROBLEM WE WANT TO INTERVENE HERE IS THE HEARING NOW MATTER HOW QUICKLY YOU HAVE THAT HEARING THAT'S THE ARGUMENT THAT IS GOING BACK AND FORTH AND TRYING TO FIND SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE IS THE DIFFICULTY FROM A CONSTITUTIONAL PERSPECTIVE.

>> Renee: I THINK OTHERS ASK IF YOU THINK ABOUT IN THE CASE OF THE LOUISVILLE BANK SHOOTER HIS PARENTS THEY HAD THEY DID NOT REALIZE THE DEPTH OF HIS -- >> THAT'S PART OF THE ISSUE.

AND I WILL TELL YOU BASED ON PEOPLE WHO LOOKED AT THE STATISTICS AND Mr. BRYANT MIGHT HAVE NUMBERS ON THIS NATIONALLY AND I DON'T KNOW THEM BUT IN THE STATES COUPLE DOZEN STATES THAT HAVE SOME SORT OF CAR TYPE BILL, EVEN IN THOSE STATES IT'S UNDERUTILIZED AND I DON'T KNOW IF THAT IS BECAUSE OF IGNORANCE OR LACK OF NONG OR INFORMATION ABOUT IT.

BUT EVEN WHEN WE LOOK BACK AT SHOOTINGS WE'VE SEEN IN THE RECENT HANDFUL OF YEARS THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL INSTANCES EVEN IN THE STATE WHERE A CAR TYPE BILL WAS IN PLACE WHERE NO ONE TOOK ADVANTAGE OF IT.

SORE IF THEY DID, THE PERSON STILL MANAGED TO FALL THROUGH THE CRACKS ALL THE SAME.

THERE WASN'T ENOUGH OF A FLAG RAISED.

>> Renee: GO AHEAD.

>> SO WE KNOW THAT MOSTLY WHEN IT COMES TO INCIDENTS OF MASS VIOLENCE THERE ARE WARNING SIGNS THAT SOMEONE CAN ACT UPON AND SENATOR WESTERFIELD IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT THAT WE CAN LOOK AT THE 19 STATES AND THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA ACROSS THE COUNTRY THAT HAVE SIMILAR LAWS AND THERE ARE INSTANCES OF NOT USING THIS TYPE OF LAW TO PROTECT AMERICANS.

BUT WE ALSO GOT A BIG WIN LAST SUMMER AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL WITH THE BIPARTISAN SAFER COMMUNITIES ACT AND WE HAVE DOLLARS THAT ARE NOT YET SPENT FOR THE STATE OF KENTUCKY AND DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE DOLLARS ARE FOR?

ARE TO EDUCATE THE PUBLIC ON BILLS LIKE CAR ONCE THEY PASS.

SO THAT THEY UNDERSTAND I HAVE THIS TOOL.

ALSO THEY NEED TO BE TRAINED ON WHAT THE WARNING SIGNS ARE SO THEY CAN REACT TO THEM BUT THEY HAVE THE TOOL AND IT SHOULD BE UTILIZED.

WE KNOW THAT BILLS SUCH AS CAR ACROSS THE UNITED STATES ARE VERY EFFECTIVE AT REDUCING SUICIDE, VERY EFFECTIVE AT REDUCING MASS VIOLENCE BUT YOU CAN'T JUST PASS THE LAW YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE YOU FOLLOW IT UP WITH AN EDUCATIONAL CAMPAIGN SO THAT PEOPLE KNOW IT EXISTS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

AND THE LAST PIECE OF THAT IS ALSO MAKING SURE THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT IS TRAINED ON HOW TO UTILIZE THE LAW AS WELL AND TO PUT THEM IN THE BEST POSITION TO BE ABLE TO ASSIST THAT GUN OWNER IN THEIR CRISIS MOMENT.

WE ACTUALLY HAVE UNUSED DOLLARS THAT ARE FOR THIS EXPRESS PURPOSE WHICH IS ANOTHER REASON THAT WE NEED TO PASS CAR.

>> Renee: Mr. BRYANT?

>> THE CAR BILL AS IT'S PROPOSED IN KENTUCKY WOULD ELIMINATE A LOT OF BOGUS COMPLAINTS OR PETITIONS THAT Mr. ZIMMER TALKED ABOUT.

BECAUSE I CAN'T FILE ONE.

IN THE HYPOTHETICAL, I THINK RENEE SHAW NEEDS TO HAVE HER FIREARMS TAKEN AWAY, WHITNEY CANNOT FILE ONE I HAVE TO SEEK A LAW ENFORCEMENT PROFESSIONAL TO COMPLETE THAT PETITION AND THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT PROFESSIONAL MAKES THAT DECISION I TRUST THEM MORE THAN I WOULD AN ESTRANGED FAMILY MEMBER.

SO I THINK THAT ELIMINATES THAT CONCERN.

IT PROVIDES PROTECTIONS THAT WE DON'T HAVE.

>> I AGREE YES THAT IS WHAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT PROVIDING AS MANY PROTECTIONS AS WE CAN FOR FAMILIES.

WE'VE HAVING TOO MANY MURDER/SUICIDES THAT ARE OCCURRING AND THEY ARE ESCALATING MUCH LIKE MASS SHOOTINGS ARE.

AND ONE INTERESTING THING ABOUT ALL OF OUR CONVERSATION TODAY WE'RE TALKING A LOT ABOUT MASS SHOOTINGS AND THESE PUBLIC SHOOTINGS WHICH ARE CAUSING A MEDIUM GRADE TERRORISM FEEL FOR THE COUNTRY.

BUT THEY ONLY ACCOUNT FOR 6% OF ALL THE SHOOTINGS IN THE COUNTRY.

SO WHAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT IN A LOT OF RESPECTS IS THAT OTHER 94% THAT WE'RE NOT TOUCHING BECAUSE THE MASS SHOOTINGS TEND TO GET MOST OF THE MEDIA.

>> Renee: WELL, AND THIS QUESTION COMES IN FROM SOMEONE WHO SAYS SINCE MOST OF THE MASS SHOOTINGS OCCUR UTILIZING A MILITARY TYPE OF WEAPON WITH LARGE CAPACITY MAGAZINES IS THERE ANY REAL PURPOSE FOR THE WEAPONS OTHER THAN QUOTE THEY ARE FUN TO SHOOT?

>> THERE ARE MENTIONS THE SHOOTING SPORTS THAT IS A HUGE POPULAR THING THAT HAS GROWN AND GROWN AND GROWN.

BUT ONCE AGAIN, SOMETIMES THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE'RE ALWAYS GOING TO MASS DESTRUCTION.

IF YOU'VE GOT A 10 OR 12 ROUND CLIP MOST GUNS POLICE OFFICERS SIDE ARM WILL HOLD 9 OR 10 BULLETS.

IF YOU HAVE TO GET IN SOME SORT OF CONFLICT UNLESS IT'S VERY, VERY CLOSE THAT WAY, THERE ARE OTHER USES FOR THAT PLATFORM.

IT IS A GUN IS A GUN IS A GUN.

IT'S JUST HOW MANY WILL DO THAT.

BUT THERE ARE SHOOTING SPORTS THAT UTILIZE THOSE TYPE OF WEAPONS AS ARE BLACK POWDER TYPE WEAPONS AS ARE PRIMITIVE WEAPONS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO YOU CAN MOST OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT HAVE THOSE LARGER CAPACITY MAGAZINES A LOT OF THEM HAVE TO HAVE THEM SPECIALLY MADE THEY MAKE THEIR OWN GUNS.

AND THERE'S PEOPLE THAT GO OUT AND SHOOT PROFESSIONALLY IN COMPETITIONS.

>> Renee: Mr. BRYANT THE NEED FOR THAT?

>> NO.

A GUN IS A GUN IS A GUN IS NOT RIGHT AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS, I CAN TAKE A RIFLE AND DO ALL THE THINGS THAT AN AR-15 CAN DO THAT YOU CAN JUSTIFY.

AN AR-15 IS DESIGNED TO KILL AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE.

A 30 ROUND, 60 ROUND, 100 ROUND DRUM MAGAZINE IT'S THERE TO IRRADICATE EVERYTHING IN ITS PATH THAT IS ITS JOB IT WAS DESIGNED FOR THE MILITARY AND THAT IS HOW IT'S SETUP.

AND SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE ONLY JUSTIFIABLE THING YOU HAVE AS YOU SAID IT'S FUN TO SHOOT.

YOU WILL SEE SOMEBODY LOAD UP 100 ROUNDS WHICH IS EXPENSIVE AND THEY BLO BURP OFF 100 ROUNDD THEY HAVE A SMILE ON THEIR FACE AND THAT IS FINE.

BUT IS IT DO WE NEED THAT?

I MEAN I CAN HAVE A CAR THAT GOES 250-MILES-PER-HOUR DO I NEED THAT?

AND THE ANSWER IS GOING TO BE NO.

SO I THINK WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE AR-15 AND THE AK-47 AND THOSE VARY RANTEDS, THEY ARE -- VARY ANTS THEY ARE SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT THAN MOSTLY EVERY OTHER GUN.

FROM HOME DEFENSE FOR USING AN AR-15, NO.

THAT IS AN OFFENSIVE WEAPON IT IS NOT A DEFENSIVE WEAPON.

A SHOTGUN IS MORE OF A DEFENSIVE WEAPON A.38 THOSE ARE WEAPONS FOR HOME USE.

THE AR-15 NOT SO MUCH LEFT.

>> I WANT TO THANK WHIT BHIT WHO JOINED US FROM OUR LOUISVILLE STUDIO, ESTIMATE SENATOR WESTERFIELD JOINING US BY SKYPE AND MARK BRYANT AND RICH ZIMMER THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE IN OUR LEXINGTON STUDIO.

YOU CAN WATCH THE PROGRAM AGAIN ON-LINE AND OTHER PROGRAMS ON-LINE AT KET.ORG.

AND AS A REMINDER WE WILL BE WITH YOU AT 6:30 EASTERN EACH WEEKNIGHT AS WE CONNECT INFORM AND INSPIRE YOU WITH STORIES THAT IMPACT YOU ON OUR PROGRAM KENTUCKY EDITION.

TUNE IN EACH WEEKNIGHT TO LEARN ABOUT ALL OF THE ISSUES AFFECTING YOU AND YOUR FAMILY.

AND FRIDAY, AT 8:00 P.M. BILL BRYANT IS IN THE STUDIO WITH A TEAM OF JOURNALISTS TO BREAKDOWN THE NEWS OF THE WEEK ALL TO GET YOU COVERED AND KEEP YOU INFORMED.

I'M RENEE SHAW AND I WILL SEE YOU TOMORROW NIGHT.