>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS CLIMATE BILLS BURIED.

THREE ENVIRONMENTALISTS EXPLAIN WHAT WENT WRONG AT THE ROUNDHOUSE THIS YEAR AND CONSEQUENCES OF CONTINUED INACTION.

>> Feibelman: IF WE DO NOT DO SOMETHING NOW, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT AGRICULTURAL COLLAPSE.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SKYROCKETING FOOD PRICES.

>> Gene: PLUS, GUN SEIZURES AT SCHOOLS.

AN ALBUQUERQUE STUDENT REMAINS IN JAIL AFTER POLICE SAY HE  BROUGHT TWO HANDGUNS ONTO SCHOOL GROUNDS.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I AM YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

WE HAVE NEW REACTION TO THE  DECISION FROM PROSECUTORS TO DROP THE INVOLUNTARY  MANSLAUGHTER CHARGE AGAINST ALEX BALDWIN.

PROSECUTORS SAY THEY NEED MORE TIME TO REVIEW NEW FACTS IN  THE DEADLY RUST FILM SHOOTING AND THEY HAVE ALSO PUSHED BACK  THE NEXT HEARING IN ARMORER HANNAH GUTIERREZ REED'S CASE  AS WELL.

AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HOUR I  ASK THE LINE OPINION PANELISTS IF THEY EXPECT CHARGES TO BE  REFILED.

IN ABOUT 25 MINUTES WE LOOK  BACK ON A LEGISLATIVE SESSION WITH NEXT TO NO ACTION ON  CLIMATE, DESPITE SEVERAL MEASURES PASSED BY THE  DEMOCRATIC CONTROLLED LEGISLATURE.

OUR LAND LAURA PASKUS SITS DOWN WITH LEADERS FROM THREE  ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS TO ASK IF THOSE IDEAS FELL THROUGH THE  CRACKS OR IF THERE WAS A MORE CONCERTED AGENDA AT WORK.

WE ARE ALSO TAKING A CLOSER LOOK AT A NEW REPORT ALLEGING  DOZENS OF INSTANCES OF ABUSE AND NEGLECT BY DEVELOPMENTAL  DISABILITY CARETAKERS.

IN LESS THAN 15 MINUTES, I'LL  ASK OUR LINE OPINION PANEL IF THE STATE SYSTEM FOR  INVESTIGATING THOSE CLAIMS STANDS UP.

BUT FIRST, A LOCK AT ALBUQUERQUE PUBLIC SCHOOLS,  WHERE GUN SEIZURES HAVE ALREADY PASSED LAST YEARS NUMBERS WITH JUST OVER A MONTH REMAINING IN THIS SPRING SEMESTER.

LET'S GET TO THE LINE.

WELCOME TO OUR LINE OPINION PANELISTS FOR THE WEEK.

WE'RE HAPPY TO BE JOINED IN PERSON IN OUR ALBUQUERQUE  STUDIO BY ATTORNEY SOPHIE MARTIN, ONE OF OUR REGULARS.

ACROSS THE TABLE, THAT DAN BOYD, CAPITOL BUREAU CHIEF AT  THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL.

AND BACK BESIDE SOPHIE, THAT  CATHRYN MCGILL, FOUNDER AND DIRECTOR OF THE NEW MEXICO BLACK LEADERSHIP COUNCIL AMONG OTHER THINGS.

THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE.

AN ALBUQUERQUE HIGH SCHOOL  STUDENT REMAINS LOCKED UP AS OF THIS TAPING AFTER POLICE  SAY THEY FOUND HIM WITH TWO HANDGUNS AT A CHARTER SCHOOL  IN ALBUQUERQUE.

PROSECUTORS SAY THE WEAPONS  ARE TIED TO MORE THAN A DOZEN SHOOTINGS AROUND THE CITY,  INCLUDING A DRIVE-BY AT SANDIA HIGH SCHOOL.

THE 18 YEAR OLD STUDENT AT LA ACADEMY DE ESPERANZA IS FACING  A WEAPONS CHARGE AND ANOTHER FOR RECEIVING STOLEN PROPERTY,  BUT HE IS NOT CHARGED IN ANY OF THOSE SHOOTINGS.

ALBUQUERQUE HAS, AS YOU KNOW, A HISTORY OF GUN VIOLENCE.

CATHRYN START HERE.

I AM TRYING TO SLOT THIS CASE.

MAKE MORE OF IT THAN IT MIGHT  BE OR LESS OF IT.

IT'S KIND OF HARD TO FIGURE OUT.

IS THIS AN INDICATOR OF SOMETHING ABOUT GUN VIOLENCE, GUNS IN SCHOOLS?

WHAT IS THE BIG OVERALL PICTURE HER WHEN YOU THINK  ABOUT TWO STUDENTS IN A HIGH SCHOOL WITH GUNS?

WHAT COMES TO MIND?

>> Cathryn: I THINK WHAT WE  SEE, THE PROGRAMS THAT ARE TARGETING GUN VIOLENCE, THE  NEW DA'S, YOU KNOW, PLAN INTERVENTION AND IN THE  SCHOOLS TO GO AND TALK TO STUDENTS ABOUT GUNS, YOU KNOW,  TELLS US THERE IS A REAL ISSUE, A REAL CONCERN.

I WAS JUST RECENTLY ON A RIDE ALONG WITH SOME ALBUQUERQUE  POLICE DOWNTOWN ON ST. PATRICKS DAY.

IT WAS JUST REALLY A CAUTIONARY TALE AS WE ARE  GOING THROUGH PARKING LOTS AND THERE ARE KIDS WHO ARE, YOU  KNOW, TEENS, 14 AND 15, 16, SITTING IN CARS AND, YOU KNOW,  WHAT I AM BEING TOLD IS WE KNOW THEY ALL HAVE GUNS.

THEY ARE NOT EVEN OLD ENOUGH TO GO INTO THE CLUBS WHERE AT  ABOUT 1:30 IN THE MORNING THERE WILL BE ALL KINDS OF  SHOOTINGS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO THE AVAILABILITY OF THOSE GUNS AND JUST SORT OF THE  STREET CRED THAT YOU GET IF YOU HAVE A GUN, SOME, NOT  EVEN, YOU KNOW, ACCORDING TO WHAT WE HEAR FROM APS  OFFICIALS, THEY WEREN'T INTENDING TO DO ANY HARM WITH  THEM AT SCHOOL BUT THEY ARE BRINGING THEM TO SCHOOL.

AND SO WE KNOW THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM.

THERE IS TOO MANY GUNS ON THE STREET AND WE HAVE TO DO  SOMETHING ABOUT THE NUMBER OF GUNS AND THE EASY ACCESS TO  GUNS ON ALBUQUERQUE STREETS AND IN THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO.

SO THE ISSUE IS ABOUT ACCESS TO THEM.

>> Gene: DAN, DETAILS OF THE STORY ARE DISTURBING, TO SAY THE LEAST.

STUDENT ACCUSED OF TRYING TO BUY TWO 9 MILLIMETER HANDGUNS  FROM ONE STUDENT, LATER ROBBING THAT STUDENT OF THE  HANDGUNS WITH THE HELP OF AN ACCOMPLICE WHILE USING A RIFLE  OF THEIR OWN.

COME ON GUYS.

STUDENT THEN IS ACCUSED OF BRINGING THE STOLEN HANDGUNS  TO SCHOOL TWO DAYS LATER TO SELL TO THEIR CLASSMATES.

TEACHER OVERHEARD THE CONVERSATION.

REPORTED THEM.

THANK GOD FOR THAT TEACHER,  HOLY SMOKES.

WE HEAR A LOT OF ABOUT  HARDENING SCHOOLS, METAL DETECTORS, THINGS LIKE THAT.

MIGHT THIS HAVE BEEN A CASE WHERE THAT MIGHT HAVE WORKED  OUT, YOU KNOW?

>> Dan: LIKE CATHY SAID IT  WOULD NICE TO LOOK AT THIS AS AN ISOLATED INCIDENT BUT I  DON'T THINK FROM WHAT WE HAVE SEEN AND 12 GUNS SEIZED FROM  ALBUQUERQUE SCHOOLS ALREADY THIS SCHOOL YEAR, YOU KNOW.

I THINK LEGISLATORS HAVE TRIED TO ADDRESS PASSING A LAW THAT  THERE COULD BE SOME LIABILITY FOR PARENTS IF MINORS ACCESS  TO FIREARMS, BUT CLEARLY THAT IS KIND OF AN AFTER-THE-FACT  PUNISHMENT.

I THINK TO TRY TO PREVENT GUNS  FROM GETTING IN SCHOOLS, I MEAN, WHETHER THAT MEANS METAL  DETECTORS AT THE FRONT OF SCHOOLS, I AM NOT EVEN SURE  THAT WOULD WORK, BUT TRYING TO GET AT THE ROOT OF THIS  PROBLEM, AND OTHER BILLS AT THE LEGISLATURE TO KIND OF  CRACK DOWN EVEN MORE ON AUTOMATIC WEAPONS FAILED, SO  CLEARLY IT IS NOT A UNANIMOUS SUPPORT FOR DOING THAT, BUT IT  DOES SEEM LIKE THIS TREND IS WE ARE SEEING MORE GUNS IN  SCHOOLS AND ALREADY WE HAVE SEEN DISASTROUS RESULTS,  TRAGIC RESULTS OF THAT.

>> Gene: SOPHIE, INTERESTINGLY  DAN MENTIONED SOME LEGISLATION, HOUSE BILL 9,  WHICH MAKES IT A CRIME FOR A FIREARM TO BE NEGLIGENTLY  STORED IN A WAY THAT A MINOR COULD ACCESS IT.

ALL WELL AND GOOD, I DON'T THINK THAT APPLIES TO THIS CASE.

>> Sophie: THERE IS NO SUGGESTION THAT THESE ARE PARENTS FIREARMS.

I AM REMINDED OF A COUPLE OF THINGS.

ONE IS WE KNOW THAT CHILDREN DO NOT HAVE FULLY DEVELOPED  BRAINS.

THEY ARE NOT, YOU KNOW --  SORRY KIDS, THOSE OF YOU WATCHING THE SHOW TONIGHT --  THEY ARE NOT GOOD AT MAKING NECESSARILY MAKING GOOD  DECISIONS.

AND YET WE CONTINUE TO MAKE  FIREARMS ACCESSIBLE TO A GROUP THAT I BELIEVE REALLY SHOULD  NOT HAVE THAT ACCESS.

AND SO WE CHIP AWAY AT THE  PROBLEM HERE, WE CHIP AWAY AT THE PROBLEM THERE.

I THINK THESE LAWS ARE IMPORTANT.

THERE IS NO DOUBT IN MY MIND ABOUT THAT, BUT I THINK GOING  BACK TO WHAT CATHRYN WAS SAYING, WE HAVE A REAL ACCESS  PROBLEM HERE.

WE HAVE A GLUT OF GUNS  AVAILABLE NOT JUST IN NEW MEXICO BUT ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND THIS NEWS ABOUT THESE KIDS IN THIS HIGH SCHOOL HAS TO BE  VIEWED IN THE CONTEXT OF THE SHOOTINGS THAT WE SEE BOTH BY  MINORS AND BY ADULTS TARGETING FOLKS IN -- TARGETING VICTIMS  IN SCHOOLS.

THE HARDENING THAT WE HAVE  SEEN SO FAR DOESN'T SEEM TO HAVE DONE ENOUGH.

AND I THINK THAT THE ARGUMENT THAT HARDENING -- I AM NOT  SUGGESTING THIS WAS WHAT YOU WERE SAYING, BUT HARDENING A  SCHOOL IS A SOLUTION ON ITS OWN, IS JUST NAIVE.

AND JUST PLAYS INTO, I THINK, THIS IDEA THAT MORE MEANINGFUL  RESTRICTIONS SHOULD BE PUT IN PLACE.

THEY NEED TO HAPPEN.

OUR COUNTRY IS CALLING OUT FOR THIS.

>> Gene: INTERESTING, TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE GETTING SHOT AT PULLING INTO THE WRONG DRIVEWAYS RIGHT NOW.

GETTING A LITTLE CRAZY, FOLKS.

TO DAN'S POINT, IT IS 14 INCIDENTS INVOLVING GUNS ON SCHOOL CAMPUSES THIS YEAR.

APS SUPERINTENDENT SCOTT ELDER TOLD THE JOURNAL LAST MONTH,  THE DISTRICT HAS INVESTED IN FENCING, LOCKS, CAMERA SYSTEMS  AND IS CONSIDERING WEAPON DETECTION SYSTEMS FOR SCHOOLS.

YOUR THOUGHTS, CATHY.

>> Cathryn: MAKING SCHOOLS A  FORTRESS, IS THAT THE ANSWER?

I HAVE TO SAY WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING.

I SIT ON SEVERAL SCHOOL COUNCILS.

>> Gene: IS IT NOT UNREASONABLE TO EXPECT A LAST CHECK AT THE DOOR WITH A METAL DETECTOR FOR A NINE MILLIMETER?

WE ARE TALKING NINE MILLIMETERS.

>> Cathryn: I THINK THAT IS WHERE WE ARE.

HOW WE GOT THERE IS JUST UNFATHOMABLE LIKE HOW WE COULD ALLOW THESE KIND OF THINGS TO HAPPEN.

AND I THINK THE LARGER QUESTION OR THE QUESTION THAT WE NEED TO ASK IS WHOSE JOB IS IT TO STEM THIS TIDE.

AND HOW MANY TIMES DO WE NEED  TO SAY TO ELECTED OFFICIALS AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL, AT THE  STATE LEVEL, AT THE CITY LEVEL, DO SOMETHING.

AND SO WE KEEP ASKING.

>> Gene: ARE WE AT THE END OF  THE ROAD ON THOSE ASKS?

HAVE THEY DONE EVERYTHING THEY  COULD DO WITH LEGISLATION?

>> Cathryn: I DON'T THINK  EVERYTHING HAS BEEN DONE THAT CAN BE DONE WITH LEGISLATION.

HOWEVER PEOPLE ARE STILL TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE'S SECOND  AMENDMENT RIGHTS TO BEAR ARMS.

SO, AT WHAT POINT DO WE NEED  TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT AND SAY WE MUST DO SOMETHING BECAUSE,  YOU KNOW, THE ACCESS IS THE ISSUE.

>> Gene: THE POLLING OUT THERE, I AM BEING LOOSE WITH  THIS, BUT THERE IS SUPPORT OUT THERE, DAN, FOR THESE KIND OF  HARDENING PERHAPS THEY ARE REACTION TO WHAT WE SEE AROUND  THE COUNTRY, WHO KNOWS, BUT THERE IS ALSO THE IDEA THAT  PERHAPS ARMING TEACHERS MIGHT HELP WITH THIS A LITTLE BIT  AND IT JUST GIVES ME -- REACTION AT THE TABLE IS KIND  OF SIMILAR TO WHAT MY GUT -- DO WE REALLY WANT TEACHERS  SHOOTING IT OUT WITH STUDENTS WITH NINE MILLIMETERS?

IS THAT THE ANSWER?

>> Dan: DEPENDING ON YOUR  PERSPECTIVE ON THE ISSUE BUT I CERTAINLY HAVEN'T SEEN THAT  GETTING MUCH TRACTION IN NEW MEXICO AND IT DOES SEEM THERE IS A LOT OF WAYS THAT COULD GO VERY WRONG.

I THINK JUST THIS ISSUE THAT CATHY TOUCHED ON, KIND OF THIS  CULTURE THAT KIND OF GLORIFIES HAVING GUNS.

AND I THINK THE POSITION WE ARE NOW JUST THERE ARE SO MANY  GUNS OUT THERE AND HOW DO YOU GET THEM OFF THE BLACK MARKET.

THAT'S NO EASY ANSWERS.

>> Gene: DURING THE PANDEMIC  SALES OF HANDGUNS SKYROCKETED AND NOW THEY ARE ALL FILTERING  OUT.

>> Sophie: THERE ARE SOME  THINGS THAT WE HAVE SEEN THAT MADE A DIFFERENCE.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THE BAN ON ASSAULT RIFLES THAT  UNFORTUNATELY EXPIRED.

I THINK UNFORTUNATELY LIKE  THAT WASN'T INTENTIONAL BUT THAT DID EXPIRE, AND WE SAW A  REAL INCREASE, A VERY DRAMATIC INCREASE IN GUNS ON THE  STREETS FOLLOWING THE EXPIRATION OF THAT  LEGISLATION, THAT LAW.

BUY-BACK PROGRAMS SEEM SO  PODUNK BUT THEY DO SERVE TO PULL GUNS OFF THE STREET, BUT  THOSE PROGRAMS CAN ONLY BE EFFECTIVE IF WE ARE ALSO  LIMITING THE ACCESS TO GUNS AT THE ORIGIN.

>> Cathryn: AT THE ORIGIN.

CAN I JUST SAY THAT YOU KNOW  85% OF TEACHERS SAY THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO CARRY A GUN IN  SCHOOL, THAT IS NOT WHAT THEY ARE THERE FOR.

AND WHY CAN'T WE LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENS IN OTHER COUNTRIES  RELATED TO GUN VIOLENCE, YOU KNOW?

CAN WE LOOK TO SEE WHAT OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE DONE, WHY THEY  DON'T HAVE THE SAME KIND OF MASS SHOOTINGS WE HAVE IN THE  U.S. >> Gene: SOPHIE, CAN I BOUNCE  BACK TO YOU FOR A QUICK SECOND.

DAN, I WANT TO GET YOU IN ON THIS TOO.

FOR YEARS WE HEARD CONCERNS FROM THE GOVERNOR, THE LEGISLATORS, PRE-TRIAL  DETENTION SYSTEM ISN'T WHAT IT SHOULD BE, STRICT ENOUGH, BUT  THIS ARRESTED 18 YEAR OLD WHO WAS ONE OF THE STUDENTS ON  CAMPUS I MENTIONED EARLIER IS -- DOESN'T APPEAR TO HAVE A  CRIMINAL RECORD AND IS BEING HELD AFTER PROSECUTORS FILED A  PRE-TRIAL DETENTION MOTION.

IS THAT PROOF THE SYSTEM IS  NOT AS LAX AS PEOPLE COMPLAIN?

>> Sophie: I THINK IT IS A  SIGN THAT PROSECUTORS WERE SUCCESSFUL IN PUTTING TOGETHER  THE ARGUMENT TO KEEP HIM BEHIND BARS.

THERE ARE MANY MOVING PIECES LIKE THE LAW DOES NOT WORK IN  THE ABSENCE OF ACTION ON THE PART, IN THIS CASE, OF THE  PROSECUTION.

I THINK I FIND IT HEARTENING  THEY WERE ABLE TO -- I DON'T KNOW HEARTENING IS THE WORD I  WANT, BUT THIS LOOKS LIKE A DENT IN THIS.

>> Gene: IS THIS THE KIND OF CIRCUMSTANCE, DAN, WHERE YOU  HAVE GOT A BOOKING OF AN 18 YEAR OLD.

MAYBE YOU MAKE A POINT HERE, A BIG PUBLIC POINT HERE OF WHAT  IT IS TO BE OF AGE BUT BRINGING A GUN ON CAMPUS.

IF THERE IS NO CONSEQUENCES HERE, THE PUBLIC IS NOT GOING  TO BE TOO HAPPY ABOUT IT.

>> IF I WAS A PARENT AT THIS  HIGH SCHOOL, I AM LOOKING FOR CONSEQUENCES HERE, BRINGING  TWO NINE MILLIMETERS INTO A SCHOOL CAMPUS SETTING.

>> Dan: YEAH, AND I THINK THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF  POLITICAL ATTENTION ON DETENTION.

THERE HAS BEEN CASES WHERE JUDGES HAVE RELEASED  INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE GONE ON TO COMMIT OTHERS AND EVEN IF  THOSE ARE THE SMALL MINORITY OF CASES, THEY GET A LOT OF  ATTENTION AND RIGHTFULLY SO.

I THINK JUDGES DO TRY TO WEIGH  ALL THE EVIDENCE IN A CASE AND OBVIOUSLY WHAT PROSECUTORS PUT  IN FRONT OF THEM.

SOMETIMES THEY USE THE ARNOLD  TOOL AND THINGS LIKE THAT TO MAKE THESE DECISIONS BUT I  THINK ON A GUT LEVEL, I MEAN, SOMETIMES THERE IS A COMMON  SENSE FACTOR.

CERTAINLY IN A CASE LIKE THIS,  IT SEEMS LIKE FOR OTHER PARENTS TO HAVE SOMEONE LIKE  THAT BEING RELEASED PENDING TRIAL WOULD BE, YEAH, NERVE  RACKING TO SAY THE LEAST.

>> Gene: SOPHIE MAKES A GOOD  POINT EARLIER ABOUT ALL OF THIS, IT JUST -- WE HAVE GOT  TO GET OR ARMS AROUND GUNS.

WE HAVE TO GET OUR ARMS AROUND  IT OUR TOWN.

WE ARE SUFFERING.

PEOPLE ARE SUFFERING FROM VIOLENCE.

THERE IS RIPPLE EFFECT WHEN SOMEONE IS A VICTIM OF GUN  VIOLENCE THAT LASTS FOR GENERATIONS.

WHAT HE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THAT.

SO THANKS TO THE LINE OPINION PANEL ON THAT ONE.

WE'LL MEET BACK HERE IN LESS THAN A MINUTE TO TALK ABOUT  THE STATE'S HANDLING OF DEVELOPMENT & DISABILITIES  PROVIDERS AFTER A REPORT SHOWS DOZENS OF INSTANCES OF NEGLECT  OR ABUSE.

YOU'LL HEAR ABOUT THAT IN JUST  A SECOND.

>> Schlenker: WHAT GOVERNOR LUJAN GRISHAM DOES NOW, WHAT THE LEGISLATURE DOES NOW IN THE COMING YEAR OR TWO WILL  DICTATE WHAT NEW MEXICO'S FUTURE IS 10 YEARS FROM NOW, 20 YEARS FROM NOW.

THAT IS GOING TO BE CONTINGENT  ON GROUPS LIKE OURS ORGANIZING TO COUNTER THE POWER OF THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY.

>> Gene: WELCOME BACK TO THE LINE OPINION PANEL.

OVER THE COURSE OF ONE MONTH, NEW MEXICO DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH CONDUCTED MORE THAN 6800 UNANNOUNCED, IN-PERSON  WELLNESS VISITS FOR CLIENTS RECEIVING SERVICES THROUGH  DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES WAIVER.

THE DD WAIVER, WE'LL TALK ABOUT HERE IN A SECOND.

THE CHECKS FLAGGED ABOUT 70 SITES FOR REPORTS OF ABUSE,  NEGLECT, EXPLOITATION OR OTHER MORE BENIGN SHORTCOMINGS.

DAN, YOU WROTE A GREAT ARTICLE ABOUT THIS LAST WEEK, FOR THE  ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL.

CAN YOU START BY EXPLAINING  THIS SYSTEM FOR US BRIEFLY?

WHAT IS THE DD WAIVER PROGRAM  AND WHY DOES IT EXIST AT ALL HERE IN NEW MEXICO?

WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THIS?

>> Dan: THE DD WAIVER PROGRAM  IS A PROGRAM TO PROVIDE SERVICES AND ASSISTANCE TO  INDIVIDUALS WITH DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES, AUTISM, THINGS  LIKE THAT.

A LOT OF THESE FOLKS ARE STILL LIVING AT HOME BUT THEIR  PROVIDERS OR PARENTS OR ANOTHER RELATIVE.

FOR A LONG TIME THE PROGRAM HAD A REALLY LONG WAITING LIST  TO GET IN FOR YEARS.

>> Gene: HOW LONG?

I AM CURIOUS.

>> I SHOULD KNOW THAT BUT --  >> Sophie: IT WAS NOTORIOUS.

>> Dan: YEAH, SO THERE IS THAT  FEELING -- SO THERE HAS BEEN A CONCERTED EFFORT, ESPECIALLY  GIVEN OUR REVENUE SITUATION TO REALLY TRY AND GET RID OF THAT  WAITING LIST.

I THINK THIS IS GOOD  INTENTIONS TO TRY TO ALLOW MORE PEOPLE TO PARTICIPATE.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THE PANDEMIC THEN PLAYED A ROLE TOO, FOLKS  WEREN'T ABLE TO GO OUT INTO THE FIELD AND DO THE USUAL  KIND OF CHECKS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

WHAT WE SAW ABOUT A MONTH AGO, APPARENTLY SOME PRETTY BAD  ABUSE CASES AND WE STILL DON'T KNOW THE EXACT DETAILS OF  THOSE CASES YET, BUT THAT PROMPTED THE LUJAN GRISHAM  ADMINISTRATION TO SAY WE ARE GOING TO DO HOME VISITS FOR  EVERYONE INVOLVED IN THE PROGRAM AND MAKE SURE THEY ARE  OKAY AND CHECK OUT THE SETTINGS.

I THINK THEY -- THERE WAS A PUSH TO GET THIS DONE QUICKLY.

TO DO THAT IN A MONTH IS PRETTY AMBITIOUS.

SO THE STORY I WROTE LAST WEEK, WE HEARD REPORTS FROM  DIFFERENT INDIVIDUALS THAT SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO WERE  SHOWING UP AT THEIR HOUSE MAY NOT HAVE NECESSARILY HAD THE  TRAINING OR THE BACKGROUND IN THE PROGRAM.

AND SO TO HAVE PEOPLE SHOWING UP AT YOUR DOOR AND DEMANDING  TO BE LET IN AND INSPECT CONDITIONS AND TALK WITH THE  INDIVIDUALS AND -- >> Gene: THESE ARE DOH EMPLOYEES.

>> Dan: THEY ARE DOH EMPLOYEES, BUT OTHER AGENCIES AS WELL.

THEY PULLED FROM OTHER STATE DEPARTMENTS AS WELL.

YOU KNOW, I HAVE HEARD FROM A FEW STATE WORKERS WHO WERE  INVOLVED IN THIS, AND THEY WERE TOLD HERE IS YOUR LIST OF  HOUSES TO GO TO, NOT GIVEN A LOT OF BACKGROUND, AND YOU'RE  GOING TO WORK AS MANY HOURS AS IT TAKES TO CLEAR THIS BACKLOG.

AND OBVIOUSLY SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT THEN RESULTED MAYBE PREDICTABLY.

>> Gene: IT BEGS THE QUESTION ABOUT THE QUALITY OF VISITS IF  THAT IS NOT YOUR THING.

>> Dan: RIGHT AND I THINK SOME  OF THESE ISSUES THAT WERE FLAGGED CERTAINLY THERE COULD  BE SERIOUS ABUSE CASES BUT SOME OF THE OTHER ONES WERE,  YOU KNOW, A DEFECTIVE FIRE ALARM OR THINGS LIKE THAT, AND  YOU KNOW, EVEN SOME OF THE STATE EMPLOYEES I HAVE HEARD  FROM SAY THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO LOOK FOR, WHAT QUESTIONS TO  ASK.

SO EVEN IF THERE WAS ABUSE  GOING ON AT A HOUSE, WOULD THEY EVEN KNOW HOW TO IDENTIFY  THAT?

>> Gene: SOPHIE, TO YOU ON  THAT.

DO WE KNOW THE KIND OF  TRAINING THESE FOLKS HAVE TO LOOK FOR SIGNS?

>> Sophie: SOMEBODY KNOWS BUT THAT HAS NOT, TO MY KNOWLEDGE,  BEEN RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC.

THAT IS UNCLEAR TO ME.

I THINK, TOO, I JUST WAS STRUCK AS DAN WAS TALKING  ABOUT THE VULNERABILITY OF SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ON  THE DD WAIVER PROGRAM WHERE SOMETHING DISRUPTIVE LIKE A  PERSON COMING IN, WHO THEY DON'T KNOW UNANNOUNCED, I AM  TALKING ABOUT THE INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE THE DEVELOPMENTAL  DISABILITY, HOW VERY DISRUPTIVE THAT CAN BE AND  THEY HAVE BEEN IN THESE CIRCUMSTANCES AND IF THE FOLKS  COMING IN DON'T HAVE TRAINING IN HOW TO NOT EXACERBATE  ISSUES THAT ALREADY EXIST, THAT COULD HAVE BEEN QUITE  COUNTER PRODUCTIVE.

I REALLY UNDERSTAND AND  APPRECIATE THE DESIRE TO GET THIS DONE QUICKLY BUT IT DOES  FEEL LIKE IT WASN'T FULLY THOUGHT THROUGH AND THESE  REPORTS ARE REALLY CONCERNING.

>> Gene: ALMOST LIKE A NUMBERS  GAME CATHY, OH, WE DID THIS AMOUNT BUT HOW WE DID IT IS  NOT THE ISSUE OR QUALITY OF THE HOW.

LET ME GO OVER SOMETHING DAN MENTIONED.

STATE HEALTH SECRETARY PATRICK ALLEN, QUOTE, THERE IS SOME  TRAINING WE DO PUT THEM THROUGH BEFORE THEY DO THESE  VISITS.

WE ARE PULLING PEOPLE WHO HAVE  A FAMILIARITY WITH THE PROGRAM AND POSSIBLE SIGNS OF ABUSE.

ARE YOU BUYING THAT?

HOW MUCH TRAINING CAN ONE GET  IN A SHORT TERM TO BE ABLE TO RECOGNIZE A VERY COMPLICATED  THING LIKE ABUSE.

IT IS NOT A MOVIE.

PEOPLE DON'T SHOW UP AT THE FRONT DOOR WITH A BLACK EYE  AND SAY, I HAVE JUST BEEN HIT.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME TRAINING  IN THESE THINGS.

>> Cathryn: I WANT TO PREFACE  WHAT I SAY BY SAYING THAT WE NEED THIS PROGRAM.

IT IS VERY, VERY BENEFICIAL.

IF ANYONE HAS EVER BEEN A  CAREGIVER FOR SOMEONE WITH SEVERE DEVELOPMENTAL  DISABILITIES UNDERSTAND THIS PROGRAM IS NEEDED.

THE SUPPORTS ARE NECESSARY.

AND I RECOGNIZE, AS SOPHIE AND  DAN HAVE SAID, THAT WE DID NEED TO DO THE INSPECTION.

THE PROBLEM COMES WITH GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS WHERE IT  IS SO REACTIONARY.

LIKE WE KNOW THAT THERE IS AN  ISSUE NOW, WE GOT TO DO THESE HURRY UP HUDDLES AND GO SAY  LET'S GET A WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE OUT THERE AND SAY,  LOOK, WE SOLVED IT.

NOT TRUE.

WE NEEDED TO KNOW THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING INTO THE  HOMES HAVE THE ABILITY TO LOOK AT WHAT IS HAPPENING THERE AND  MAKE A CRITICAL ANALYSIS OF WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN, YOU  KNOW, OR THAT THIS IS A HOME THAT IS THINGS ARE BEING  HANDLED WELL.

TO HAVE PEOPLE SHOWING UP AT  THE DOOR WHO MAY NOT BE TRAINED IS POTENTIALLY  DETRIMENTAL TO BOTH THE PEOPLE IN THE HOME AND TO THAT  STAFFER WHO IS GOING OUT, WHO IS NOT PROPERLY PROTECTED, WHO  DOESN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY NEED TO BE LOOKING FOR.

AND IF THEY HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE KIND OF TRAINING THAT  WOULD BE NECESSARY, THEN, PLEASE TELL US WHAT THAT WAS,  SO THAT WE CAN HAVE THE CONFIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOU  BECAUSE WE UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS A PROGRAM THAT IS VERY  NEEDED.

DOING 6800 SITE VISITS IN A  MONTH, YOU KNOW, I THINK, MAYBE THEY PROBABLY SHOWED  THEM HOW TO USE GOOGLE MAPS OR THINGS LIKE THAT, HOW TO GET  TO THE HOUSE, BUT WHAT DID YOU DO BEYOND THAT?

>> Gene: YOU MADE A POINT ABOUT REPORTING OUT, ARE THESE  PEOPLE REPORTING OUT THESE 6800 VISITS AND WHAT DID THEY  SAY?

THERE IS ALL KINDS OF THINGS  THAT SOUND LIKE JUST A BIG PUSH.

YOU SPOKE WITH SOMEONE WHO CARES FOR HER SISTER WITH  DOWN'S SYNDROME.

SHE SAID THE STATE EMPLOYEE  SHOWED UP UNANNOUNCED AND THREATENED HER.

WHAT ALL DID SHE TELL YOU ABOUT THAT INTERACTION?

WHAT WAS THAT ALL ABOUT?

>> Dan: I HAVE TALKED TO A FEW  OTHER PEOPLE WITH SIMILAR EXPERIENCES AND THESE  EMPLOYEES SHOWING UP AND HAVE HAD GOOD INATTENTIONS, BUT  INSTRUCTIONS WERE YOU WILL ALLOW US INTO THE HOUSE TO  INSPECT AND THREATENING TO CALL LAW ENFORCEMENT.

IF SOMEONE SHOWS UP UNANNOUNCED IN THE EVENING AT  YOUR HOUSE, AND YOU DON'T KNOW FOR SURE WHO THEY ARE AND  THEIR IDENTITY.

I MEAN, I CAN UNDERSTAND THE  RELUCTANCE.

THIS WOMAN SAID SHE FELT LIKE  A CRIMINAL IN HER OWN HOME AND NOT KNOWING EXACTLY WHAT THEY  ARE LOOKING FOR.

I MEAN, I CAN CERTAINLY SEE  THE TRAUMA FROM THAT.

AND I CAN'T REMEMBER WHO  MENTIONED BUT SAID A LOT OF THESE FOLKS DO THRIVE ON  ROUTINE AND TO HAVE THAT UPENDED AND DISRUPTED I THINK  CAN BE PROBLEMATIC.

I EVEN HEARD THAT THERE MAY  HAVE BEEN SOME VISITS TO SPANISH SPEAKING HOMES WITH  STATE EMPLOYEES WHO DON'T SPEAK SPANISH, THINGS LIKE  THAT, WHERE THAT LANGUAGE BARRIER AND ADDING KIND OF TO  THAT FEAR OF WHAT IS GOING ON AND WHAT IS HAPPENING?

>> I THINK IT WILL -- WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT NOW THAT  THEY HAVE CONDUCTED THIS ROUND OF -- THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SOME  CASES THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN MONITORED MORE CLOSELY BEFORE  AND I WOULD EXPECT WHAT WE MIGHT SEE CRIMINAL CHARGES  THERE, BUT I THINK THE WAY THESE WERE CARRIED OUT IT DOES  RAISE SOME RED FLAGS.

>> Gene: INTERESTING POINTS.

SOPHIE BACK TO THOSE 70 RESIDENTIAL SITES I MENTIONED.

ALLEGATIONS RANGE FROM POSSIBLE ABUSE, OF COURSE, TO  MISSING BATTERIES ON SMOKE ALARMS.

DRASTICALLY DIFFERENT OFFENSES.

SHOULD THE CRITERIA FOR FLAGS USED BY DOH BE A LITTLE MORE  NUANCED TO YOU?

>> Sophie: IT DOES FEEL THAT  WAY, DOESN'T IT.

I MEAN IF IT CAN BE RESOLVED  WITH A TRIP TO THE HARDWARE STORE, THAT IS DIFFERENT THAN  THESE MORE TROUBLING CASES.

AND IT MAY BE THAT INTERNALLY  THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH DOES HAVE A SYSTEM FOR RANKING  THOSE, BUT PRIORITIZING THEM BUT, AGAIN, NOT SHARED WITH US.

SO WE REALLY DON'T HAVE THAT INFORMATION.

>> Gene: IS IT WITHIN OUR RIGHTS AS TAXPAYERS TO ASK FOR SOME KIND OF REPORTING OUT ON THIS?

THEY STEPPED INTO THIS.

IT IS NOT CYFD.

DOH STEPPED INTO THIS.

>> Sophie: THANK YOU FOR SAYING THAT.

THEY DID STEP INTO THIS AND IT FEELS TO ME LIKE THEY WERE  UNPREPARED TO PROVIDE THE LEVEL OF TRANSPARENCY THAT THE  COMMUNITY WOULD ASK FOR.

ONE OF THE THINGS I WAS  THINKING ABOUT WITH THE TRAINING ISSUE IS WE DON'T  KNOW WHAT THE TRAINING WAS.

WE ALSO DON'T KNOW WHAT  QUALIFICATIONS WERE NECESSARY.

SO, KIND OF SOUNDS TO ME ONE  OF THE QUALIFICATIONS WAS THAT YOU WERE ALREADY ON THE  STATE'S PAYROLL, THAT IS STEP ONE, BUT WHAT WERE THE OTHER  THINGS THAT WERE NECESSARY IN ORDER TO GET THESE PEOPLE OUT  IN THE FIELD?

>> Gene: HAVE YOU HEARD FROM  OTHERS SINCE YOUR STORY?

>> Dan: I HEARD FROM A NUMBER  OF PROVIDERS AND STATE EMPLOYEES WHO HAVEN'T WANTED  TO SPEAK ON THE RECORD BUT WHO HAVE SHARED SOME OF THEIR OWN  CONCERNS ABOUT HOW THIS WAS DONE AND HOW THE INSTRUCTIONS  AND PROTOCOLS WERE KIND OF SHIFTING AS THE PROGRAM WENT,  WHICH IS PROBLEMATIC, AS WELL.

THE STATE DID EVENTUALLY, WHEN  THEY WERE REPORTING THE NUMBERS, DISTINGUISHING  BETWEEN POSSIBLE ABUSE AND NEGLECT AND THESE  ENVIRONMENTAL FACTORS.

THEY DID MAKE THAT CHANGE, BUT  WE STILL DON'T KNOW THE FOLLOW-UP ON THOSE AND WHAT IS  GOING TO BE DONE EXACTLY.

I WAS TOLD THEY EVER WERE ALL  REFERRED FOR FURTHER INVESTIGATION BUT EXACTLY WHAT  THAT MEANS -- >> Gene: LET'S GET REAL HERE.

WHEN PEOPLE COME TO THE FRONT DOOR, IF THERE IS SITUATIONS  LIKE ABUSE, THESE PEOPLE ARE VERY GOOD AT HIDING THINGS.

THAT IS WHAT THEY DO.

SO YOU HAVE TO HAVE A VERY  GOOD RADAR FOR THAT KIND OF THING.

YOU CAN'T WALK IN WITH A TRAINING LIST OF THINGS AND  SORT OF WATCH FOR THEIR REACTION TO QUESTIONS.

YOU HAVE GO TO KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON HERE.

I GOT TO WONDER, FOLLOW-UP COMING DOWN THE ROAD WILL BE  INTERESTING TO READ.

THANK YOU FOR THE WORK ON  THIS, WITH THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL.

REALLY EYE OPENING.

THANKS AGAIN TO OUR LINE  OPINION PANEL.

WE'LL MEET BACK HERE IN LESS  THAN 20 MINUTES FOR FINAL CONVERSATION OF THE WEEK WHEN  WE REACT TO THE DECISION TO DROP THE INVOLUNTARY  MANSLAUGHTER CHARGE AGAINST MR. ALEX BALDWIN.

WE'LL ASK OUR PANELISTS IF THEY THINK IT WILL EVER BE  REFILED.

>> Bernal: DOCTRINE OF DISCOVERY WAS NOT ABOUT CLAIMING LANDS AS ONE'S OWN AND DOING WITH IT WHAT ONE WANTED TO DO, BUT IT WAS GENOCIDE.

IT WAS THE MASSACRE OF WHOLE NATIONS OF PEOPLE AND I WANT TO HEAR THE VATICAN ADDRESS THAT.

I WANT TO HEAR OUR ARCHDIOCESE HERE IN NEW MEXICO ADDRESS THAT.

SO THAT WE CAN PROPERLY HONOR AND REALLY THIS IS WHAT THAT WORK IS ABOUT.

IT IS TRUTH, JUSTICE AND HEALING AND IT IS ABOUT HONORING THOSE WHO NEVER MADE IT HOME.

>> Gene: 2023 WAS A GRIM YEAR IN THE LEGISLATURE FOR PROGRESS ON CLIMATE CHANGE.

LAWMAKERS PASSED VERY FEW BILLS.

AND THOSE THAT DID GET THROUGH FELL UNDER THE VETO PEN OF DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM.

THIS WEEK OUR LAND SENIOR PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS GOT TOGETHER WITH LEADERS OF THREE NONPROFITS FOR A CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT WENT WRONG AND WHY.

WE ALSO TALKED ABOUT WHY CLIMATE CHANGE NEVER SEEMS TO  RISE TO THE TOP OF THE POLITICAL AGENDA EVEN IN THE  STATE WHERE THE PUBLIC CLEARLY WANTS POLITICIANS TO MOVE ON  CLIMATE CHANGE.

>> Laura: WE ARE HERE TODAY TO  TALK ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE AND POLITICS.

WE HAVE JULIE BERNAL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE  PUEBLO ACTION ALLIANCE.

CAMILLA FIEBELMAN, DIRECTOR OF  THE RIO GRANDE CHAPTER OF SIERRA CLUB AND ERIC SCHLENKER-GOODRICH, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE WESTERN ENVIRONMENTAL OFFICE.

WELCOME.

SO, IT SEEMS LIKE THERE WAS MOMENTUM ON CLIMATE CHANGE  AHEAD OF THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION THIS YEAR, BUT IT  ENDED UP BEING ANOTHER REALLY DISAPPOINTING YEAR FOR CLIMATE  ACTION IN THE NEW MEXICO LEGISLATURE.

IN A NUT SHELL, CAMILLA, WHAT WENT WRONG THIS YEAR?

>> Feibelman: IT IS SIMILAR TO WHAT HAS GONE WRONG THE LAST THREE YEARS IN A ROW THAT WE HAVE TRIED TO BRING  COMPREHENSIVE CLIMATE LEGISLATION.

WE WERE PRESENTED WITH A DRASTICALLY WEAKENED BILL BY  THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SESSION,  ASKED TO SUPPORT IT, AND OFFERED SOME STRONGER WAYS  FORWARD BUT WERE TOLD THAT THERE WOULDN'T BE A BILL IF WE  WEREN'T GOING TO SUPPORT THE ONE THAT WAS THERE.

SO, WE TOOK A DIFFERENT PATH OF TRYING TO PUSH FORWARD FIVE  DIFFERENT CLIMATE TAX CREDITS THAT WERE, TO THE CREDIT OF  HOUSE AND SENATE LEADERSHIP, INCLUDED IN THE COMPREHENSIVE  TAX PACKAGE AND THEN WERE PART OF A BIG LINE ITEM VETO IN  THAT BILL BY THE GOVERNOR.

AND THAT AMOUNTS TO ZERO  ACTION ON CLIMATE IN THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION EVEN  THOUGH THERE WAS GOOD NEWS IN MANY OTHER REALMS IN THE  ENVIRONMENT, JUST NOT ON THE CLIMATE.

>> Laura: INTERESTED IN WHAT ARE SOME OF THOSE BEHIND THE  SCENES CONVERSATION THAT HAPPEN LEADING UP TO THE  SESSION.

WHO WAS TALKING?

WHO IS MAKING THESE THINGS HAPPEN OR NOT HAPPEN?

>> Schlenker: I THINK ONE WAY TO THINK ABOUT IT IS OVER THE  COURSE OF THE GOVERNOR'S LEADERSHIP OVERALL IN HER  FIRST TERM AND NOW INTO HER SECOND TERM.

I THINK IN THE FIRST TERM SHE DID EXERCISE LEADERSHIP IN  TERMS OF PROMULGATING, PIONEERING METHANE RULES BOTH  THROUGH THE OIL CONSERVATION DIVISION AND NEW MEXICO ENVIRONMENT DEPARTMENT.

SHE ALSO PASSED THE ENERGY  TRANSITION ACT WHICH IS HELPING IN THE SAN JUAN BASIN  BOTH TO RETIRE COAL FIRED POWER BUT THEN TO ALSO PUT  MONEY ON THE GROUND FOR COMMUNITIES TO TRANSITION AWAY  FROM DEPENDENCY ON FOSSIL FUELS.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE ARE THINKING ABOUT AT WESTERN  ENVIRONMENTAL LAW CENTER IS, WHAT IS THE GOVERNOR'S AGENDA  ON CLIMATE IN HER SECOND TERM?

AND DOES SHE EVEN HAVE ONE?

THERE IS A SENSE THAT SHE CHECKED A BOX ON THE METHANE  RULES, SHE CHECKED THE BOX ON THE ENERGY TRANSITION ACT AND,  IN FACT, DOESN'T HAVE AN AGENDA ON CLIMATE ACTION FOR  HER SECOND TERM.

WHEN I THINK ABOUT WHAT THE  REASON IS FOR THAT, I THINK IT IS THE ENTRENCHED POWER OF THE  OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY AND AN UNWILLINGNESS OF THE STATE  POLITICAL LEADERSHIP, STARTING WITH THE GOVERNOR, TO TRULY  CHALLENGE THAT POWER AND TO POSITION NEW MEXICO FOR THE FUTURE, TO REALLY OPEN NEW DOORS FOR A THRIVING,  RESILIENT FUTURE THAT ISN'T CONTINGENT ON THE VOLATILITY  OF OIL AND GAS REVENUE, WHICH ULTIMATELY IS GOING TO GO AWAY.

>> Laura: LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT WE ARE AN ENERGY PRODUCING STATE AND WE ARE SEEING IMPACTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE.

HOW DO WE DECOUPLE OIL AND GAS FROM OUR ECONOMY?

HOW DO WE RECTIFY THESE TWO PARTS?

>> Bernal: THANK YOU ERIK FOR WHAT YOU HAD TO SAY.

I THINK -- I FEEL LIKE IN A SENSE THEY ARE LIKE -- I FEEL  LIKE SHE DOES HAVE AN AGENDA WHERE IT IS BASED ON  SUPPORTING FOSSIL FUELS STILL AND USING -- UTILIZING WHAT  ARE CALLED MARKET-BASED MECHANISMS TO ALLOW THE  CONTINUATION OF FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRIES SO APPEASING TO  THAT CONSTITUENCY IN NEW MEXICO, BECAUSE, OF COURSE, WE ALL KNOW THAT NEW MEXICO IS VERY SEVERELY ADDICTED TO FOSSIL FUEL REVENUES, BUT I FEEL LIKE A LOT OF WHAT GRASS  ROOTS, INDIGENOUS YOUTH ORGANIZATIONS ARE REALLY  LOOKING TO IS HOW DO WE DIVERSIFY OUR ECONOMY.

HOW CAN WE ALSO STIMULATE THE ECONOMY?

IS THAT THROUGH A COMMUNITY SOLAR GRID PROJECT.

IS THAT BY CREATING ECONOMIES AROUND REMEDIATION AND CARE.

I THINK THAT THERE IS A LOT OF THINKING BEHIND WHAT A TRULY  EQUITABLE, JUST TRANSITION COULD LOOK LIKE, BUT IT IS NOT  GOING TO BE A SOLUTION THAT IS GOING TO APPEASE THE OIL AND  GAS INDUSTRY OR EXTRACTIVES IN GENERAL.

SO, THAT IS, I THINK, THE DUALITY OF THIS ISSUE IS THAT WE ALL RECOGNIZE THAT NEW MEXICO IS IN SEVERE NEED OF JUST TRANSITION BUT WE CAN'T DO THAT WHILE ALSO BOLSTERING  THE FOSSIL FUEL ECONOMY.

>> Schlenker: IF I MAY, WHAT  JULIA IS SAYING REMINDS ME THAT, IN FACT, MAYBE THERE IS  AN AGENDA AND PART OF THAT AGENDA IS FOSSIL GAS HYDROGEN.

IT IS INTERESTING THAT ON FRIDAY, AFTER THE SESSION, SHE  VETOED THE FIVE TAX CREDITS AND THEN ON THE MONDAY, THE  NEXT BUSINESS DAY, SHE THEN SUBMITTED THROUGH HER AGENCIES  A 1.25 BILLION DOLLAR HYDROGEN HUB PROPOSAL THAT VERY MUCH  WAS GROUNDED IN FOSSIL GAS HYDROGEN.

THE WAY WE THINK ABOUT HYDROGEN, AND I SUSPECT JULIA  ECHOS THIS, IS THAT THAT IS A WAY TO PERPETUATE OUR  DEPENDENCY ON OIL AND GAS, NOT A WAY FOR US TO TRANSITION  AWAY FROM THAT DEPENDENCY AND NOT A WAY TO TRULY ADDRESS  CLIMATE ACTION IN SUPPORT OF FRONT LINE COMMUNITIES.

>> Laura: I FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY AFTER A YEAR  LIKE 2022 THAT WAS HARD ON MANY NEW MEXICANS IN CLIMATE  RELATED WAYS.

PEOPLE ARE SAD, PEOPLE ARE  OVERWHELMED.

THEY WANT TO DO SOMETHING AND  I HEAR FROM PEOPLE A LOT WHO ARE WORRIED ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE.

AND I OFTEN SAY TO THEM, TALK TO YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS, MAKE SURE YOUR ELECTED  OFFICIALS KNOW THAT YOU CARE ABOUT CLIMATE, ENERGY, WATER.

AND YET HERE WE ARE IN A STATE WHERE WE ARE NOT LIKE TEXAS OR  FLORIDA.

OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS  UNDERSTAND CLIMATE CHANGE, UNDERSTAND WHY IT IS HAPPENING  AND YET IT SEEMS TO ME LIKE DEMOCRATS WILL NOT DELIVER ON  CLIMATE ACTION.

WHAT ARE THE ROADBLOCKS?

WHAT ARE THE BARRIERS TO THIS?

JULIA, DO YOU HAVE A SENSE?

>> Bernal: THIS IS SPEAKING FROM, LIKE, A YOUNG PERSON  THAT HASN'T BEEN IN THIS WORK AS LONG AS CAMILLA OR ERIK.

IN THEORY DEMOCRACY AND DEMOCRATIC PROCESS IS LIKE,  YOU KNOW, PARTICIPATION AND, LIKE, HAVING THE ABILITY TO  TALK TO YOUR POLITICAL LEADERS AND, LIKE, SEE THE DEBATE OUT  IN THE LEGISLATURE.

BUT, WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS  THAT A LOT OF THESE DEBATES AND TOPICS ARE REALLY  DEPENDENT ON RELATIONSHIPS THAT PEOPLE HAVE, WHETHER THAT  IS WITH THE GOVERNOR, WITH ORGANIZATIONS AND THEIR  POLITICAL LEADERS OR LEGISLATURES.

AND THAT, I FEEL, IS ALSO A DETERRENT FOR LIKE FORWARDING,  LIKE, REAL CLIMATE ACTION AND REAL PROGRESS BECAUSE THERE IS  A LOT OF POLITICAL CAPITAL THAT I THINK A LOT OF FOLKS  ARE REALLY TRYING TO PROTECT.

I UNDERSTAND THAT LIKE HAVING  RELATIONSHIPS WITH PEOPLE IS A MECHANISM TO SEE YOUR AGENDA  GO THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE, BUT, LIKE, LET'S HAVE THE DEBATE.

LET'S, LIKE, SEE HOW DEMOCRACY IS SUPPOSED TO WORK WITHOUT GETTING IN THE WAY OF  PERSONALITIES OR RELATIONSHIPS.

>> Feibelman: I'LL JUST ADD A LITTLE BIT.

AFTER THE GOVERNOR VETOED THOSE FIVE TAX CREDITS, YOU  SAW AN OUTPOURING OF GRASS ROOTS COMMUNITY CONCERN ON TO  THE OPINION PAGES, FULL PAGES OF LETTERS TO THE EDITOR  ASKING WHY IN A YEAR LIKE LAST YEAR WHERE WE SAW MASSIVE  FIRES, AT ONE POINT IN EVERY COUNTY IN THE STATE,  GENERATIONAL HOMES BURNED, FLOODING AS AN AFTER CONSEQUENCE.

IF WE DO NOT DO SOMETHING NOW WE ARE TALKING ABOUT AGRICULTURAL COLLAPSE.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SKYROCKETING FOOD PRICES.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT LEAVING OUR KIDS AN UNINHABITABLE  LANDSCAPE.

AND I THINK THAT THERE WAS A  CALCULATION THIS YEAR IN THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE THAT SHE  COULD CUT THE BUDGET BY CUTTING PROGRESS ON CLIMATE  THROUGH THE TAX PACKAGE.

AND I THINK THE CLEAR ANSWER  FROM OUR GRASSROOTS ALL AROUND THE STATE IS THAT THAT WILL  NOT WORK.

WHEN IT COMES TO THOSE  RELATIONSHIPS, WHAT WE ARE DOING IS ASKING OUR MEMBERS TO  REACH OUT IN A VERY PERSONAL WAY TO THEIR LEGISLATORS.

YOU KNOW, WE MADE SOME GOOD PROGRESS IN THE LEGISLATURE ON  BANNING THE TRANSPORT OF HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE HERE,  FINALLY GETTING A PERMANENT FUND FOR CONSERVATION EFFORTS,  AND I THINK LEGISLATORS MORE THAN EVER ARE HEARING FROM  THEIR CONSTITUENTS SAYING, YOU HAVE GOT TO DO SOMETHING HARD.

YOU KNOW, WE DID VOTING RIGHTS.

WE DID GENDER AFFIRMING AND ABORTION CARE, BUT WHEN YOU'RE  STANDING UP AGAINST THE WELL MONEYED OILED AND GAS  INDUSTRY, IT IS GOING TO BE THAT MUCH HARDER BUT THERE IS  NOT A SINGLE DOLLAR THAT COMES INTO THIS STATE THAT CAN  JUSTIFY A KID'S ASTHMA ATTACK, THE HEALTHCARE THAT PEOPLE  HAVE TO GET BECAUSE OF THE IMPACTS NOT JUST OF CLIMATE  AND ON HEALTH.

AND WE WILL WORK HARDER THAN  EVER AS WE ALWAYS HAVE, A BIT OF CASSANDRA, YOU KNOW,  CALLING ON PEOPLE TO ADDRESS THIS CRISIS.

BUT WE WILL KEEP DOING THAT AND WE WILL DO IT UNTIL WE DO  SOMETHING DIFFERENT, BUT IT IS GOING TO REQUIRE A  TRANSFORMATIONAL APPROACH.

WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LEAVE  OIL AND GAS.

WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO SAY  GOOD-BYE AND I THINK IT IS WORTH RECOGNIZING THAT NO  MATTER HOW WELL OR POORLY OIL AND GAS ARE DOING, IT DOESN'T  SEEM TO CHANGE HOW WELL NEW MEXICANS ARE DOING.

THOSE JOBS ARE DANGEROUS.

PEOPLE GET BURNED AND SCARRED  FROM DOING THOSE JOBS AND SO DOES OUR PLANET SO WE HAVE GOT  TO JUST KEEP COMING BACK, AS DISAPPOINTING AS IT MIGHT BE,  AS SCARY AS IT MIGHT BE OUR KIDS DESERVE WE DO NOT QUIT.

>> Laura: I AGREE WITH YOU AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THE  POTENTIAL FOR SORT OF PLANETARY DESTRUCTION DOESN'T  RISE TO THE TOP OF PEOPLES' POLITICAL AGENDAS, BUT IT JUST  FEELS TO ME LIKE SOMETHING NEEDS TO CHANGE BECAUSE I  STARTED COVERING THE ENVIRONMENT IN THE RICHARDSON  ADMINISTRATION AND WE WENT THROUGH EIGHT YEARS OF A  REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR WHERE BILLS WEREN'T GOING TO GET  INTRODUCED BECAUSE SHE WASN'T GOING TO SIGN THEM.

I FEEL LIKE WHAT REALLY NEEDS TO CHANGE IN HOW WE ARE  APPROACHING THIS?

>> Schlenker: I FEEL THERE IS  A POLICY ANSWER AND NON-POLICY ANSWER.

THE NON-POLICY ANSWER IS WHAT JULIA WAS TALKING ABOUT IN  TERMS OF RELATIONSHIPS.

ONE THING WE ARE ALL THINKING  ABOUT IS HOW DO WE BUILD SOLIDARITY AND POWER IN THE  PROGRESSIVE SECTOR SO THAT IT IS NOT VIEWED AS A STOVEPIPE  ISSUE BUT AS AN ISSUE THAT IS REALLY ABOUT THE FUTURE OF NEW MEXICO OVERALL.

THIS IS A MOMENT FOR US TO ACT.

WHAT GOVERNOR LUJAN GRISHAM DOES NOW, WHAT THE LEGISLATURE DOES NOW IN THE COMING YEAR OR  TWO WILL DICTATE WHAT NEW MEXICO'S FUTURE IS 10 YEARS FROM NOW, 20 YEARS FROM NOW.

THAT IS GOING TO BE CONTINGENT  ON GROUPS LIKE OURS ORGANIZING TO COUNTER THE POWER OF THE  OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY.

THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY  PROVIDES A HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY TO POLITICIANS.

IT ALSO PROVIDES A HUGE AMOUNT OF REVENUE TO THE STATE, TO  THE STATE COFFERS, AND IT IS ALSO THE RELATIONSHIP THAT  MOST POLITICAL LEADERS ARE USED TO AND COMFORTABLE WITH  LISTENING TO THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY, NOT LISTENING TO THE  PEOPLE.

I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT  REALLY NEEDS TO CHANGE.

FROM A MORE POLICY  TECHNOCRATIC PERSPECTIVE, IT IS REALLY TRANSITIONING AWAY  FROM OUR DEPENDENCY ON FOSSIL FUELS REVENUE WHILE  CONCURRENTLY PROVIDING SUPPORT FOR COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE  STATE, ESPECIALLY IN THOSE OIL AND GAS PRODUCING REGIONS, TO  BE ABLE TO RETRAIN THEIR WORKERS AND MOVE FORWARD.

I THINK THINKING BACK ABOUT THIS SESSION, THAT IS ONE OF  THE MOST FRUSTRATING THINGS BECAUSE THERE WERE BILLS TO  START BUILDING OUT A GEOTHERMAL INDUSTRY IN NEW MEXICO THAT WOULD BE VERY CONSISTENT AND SUPPORTED BY THE CONSERVATION COMMUNITY AND THE CLIMATE COMMUNITY TO HELP  MAKE THAT TRANSITION, BUILD NEW INDUSTRIES.

AND WE SAW THOSE BILLS AND THOSE TAX CREDITS ALSO VETOED.

SO I THINK RIGHT NOW WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS THE GOVERNOR  ESSENTIALLY NOT LEADING, INCLUDING AT THE LEGISLATURE,  AND PASSING UP WHAT IS OTHERWISE AN AMAZING  OPPORTUNITY TO SET THE STAGE FOR NEW MEXICO'S FUTURE.

THAT IS JUST NOT HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.

>> YOU TALKED ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS AND KIND OF, YOU  KNOW, THE WAY I WAS THINKING ABOUT IT IS SORT OF BACK ROOM  DEALS BETWEEN LOBBYISTS AND LAWMAKERS.

I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE OTHER KINDS OF RELATIONSHIPS THAT WE  NEED TO BE BUILDING TO BE ADDRESSING CLIMATE CHANGE  MITIGATION AND ADAPTATION.

WHAT ARE THOSE TYPES OF  RELATIONSHIPS.

>> Bernal: YEAH, SO, WE ARE A  PUBLIC ACTION ALLIANCE.

WE ARE AN INDIGENOUS PUEBLO  ORGANIZATION AND SO A LOT OF OUR CAMPAIGN DEVELOPMENT AND  PROGRAMS WITHIN OUR ORGANIZATION ARE REALLY ROOTED  IN OUR VALUES AS PUEBLO INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.

A LOT OF THOSE VALUES ARE ALSO THESE RELATIONSHIPS THAT WE  HAVE WITH THE NATURAL WORLD AND WITH OUR COMMUNITIES AND,  YOU KNOW, IN THIS BIGGER GLOBAL CONVERSATION AROUND  CLIMATE MITIGATION AND ADAPTATION, IT HAS BEEN STATED  NUMEROUS TIMES THAT INDIGENOUS TRADITIONAL KNOWLEDGE OR  TRADITIONAL ECOLOGICAL KNOWLEDGE IS GOING TO BE A  MECHANISM TO GETTING TO THOSE CLIMATE GOALS.

AND A LOT OF WHAT INDIGENOUS GROUPS ACROSS THE WORLD ARE  TRYING TO DO IS CENTER THAT ANALYSIS BECAUSE ULTIMATELY IF  YOU'RE DOING THAT, YOU'RE THEN STARTING TO LOOK AT, YOU KNOW,  YOU'RE STARTING TO LOOK AT THE WORLD DIFFERENTLY, NOT AS A  RESOURCE BUT AS AN ENTITY, AS A LIVING ENTITY.

THAT RELATIONSHIP THAT WE HAVE WITH THE NATURAL WORLD IS  REALLY A PART OF OUR ANALYSIS AS CLIMATE ACTIVISTS OR  CLIMATE ADVOCATES, WHATEVER WE CALL OURSELVES.

AND I FEEL LIKE THAT CONCEPT ISN'T ALWAYS AS INTUITIVE TO  NONINDIGENOUS PEOPLE AND MAY EVEN SEEM A BIT, LIKE, NEBULOUS OR NOT GROUNDED IN ANYTHING THAT CAN BE ACTION ORIENTED.

BUT ULTIMATELY IT IS.

YOU KNOW.

I THINK THAT HAS BEEN A BIG CHALLENGE IN PARTICIPATING IN  THE LEGISLATURE BECAUSE ULTIMATELY A LOT OF THE TIMES  WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WATER, LAND, RESOURCES, WE ARE  TALKING ABOUT THEM AS MATERIALS RATHER THAN LIKE  BEINGS AND OUR RELATIVES.

YOU KNOW, ULTIMATELY, IT IS  JUST A CHALLENGE THAT WE ARE CONSTANTLY HAVING TO FACE,  BUT, AGAIN, I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT IT IS GOING TO BE VERY  VITAL FOR THE FUTURE TO CENTER THOSE TYPES OF CONCEPTS AND  IDEOLOGIES.

>> Laura: YOU ALL ARE WITH  DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS AND HAVE DIFFERENT STRATEGIES AND  CAMPAIGNS, BUT I WOULD LIKE FOR EACH OF YOU JUST TO VERY  BRIEFLY, WHAT IS THE ONE MISTAKE YOU THINK NEW MEXICO CANNOT MAKE RIGHT NOW?

>> Feibelman: DOING WHAT WE ARE DOING RIGHT NOW.

WE REALLY NEED A CLEAR, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.

60% OF THE GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS THAT WE ARE EMITTING  AS A STATE COME FROM OIL AND GAS AND INDUSTRY.

WE NEED TO KNOW THAT OPERATING OIL FACILITIES ARE COMPLYING  WITH THE STRONGEST RULES AND WE NEED TO KNOW THEY ARE WORKING.

AND WE NEED TO DO MORE IF THEY ARE NOT.

WE ULTIMATELY NEED TO KEEP IT  IN THE GROUND OR WE WILL NOT CREATE THE FUTURE WE NEED.

BUT WE ALSO HAVE HUGE -- >> Laura: YOU ONLY GET ONE.

>> Feibelman: WHAT ABOUT THE CARS, THE BUILDINGS, THE FOSSIL FUEL, THE HYDROGEN, THERE'S SO MUCH TO DO.

>> Laura: I KNOW, IT'S SO OVERWHELMING.

ONE THING WE CAN'T AFFORD TO NOT DO RIGHT NOW.

>> Schlenker: WE HAVE A WEALTH OF RESOURCES AT THE TABLE IN NEW MEXICO IN TERMS OF STATE REVENUE.

WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT  STATE REVENUE IS DIRECTED TO GOOD THINGS NOT THE BAD THINGS.

IN OTHER WORDS, DON'T DIRECT THAT TOWARDS FOSSIL GAS, HYDROGEN, DIRECT THAT TOWARDS COMMUNITY.

DIRECT THAT TO THE BUILD OUT OF CLEAN ENERGY INFRASTRUCTURE LIKE GEOTHERMAL, LIKE SUN,  LIKE WIND, AND MAKE USE OF THAT OPPORTUNITY.

I THINK WHAT IS KEY HERE IS CREATE A SENSE OF BELONGING  AMONG THE PEOPLE OF NEW MEXICO.

THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY SHOULD NOT DICTATE OUR ENERGY  FUTURE.

THE PEOPLE SHOULD DICTATE OUR  ENERGY FUTURE.

>> Laura: ONE THING --  >> Bernal: ERIK KIND OF -- I AM TRYING TO TRANSITION.

WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY, I'LL JUST ADD QUICKLY THAT NEW MEXICO IS REALLY UNIQUE IN ITS DIVERSITY OF TRADITIONAL LAND-BASED PEOPLE, WHETHER THAT IS INDIGENOUS PEOPLE,  ACEQUIA COMMUNITIES AND THOSE TYPE OF COMMUNITY MODELS  AROUND LAND AND WATER STEWARDSHIP ARE REALLY GOING  TO BE IMPORTANT FOR CLIMATE ADAPTATION.

IT WOULD BE A HUGE MISTAKE IF THOSE IDEAS AND MODELS WERE IGNORED BY THE STATE.

>> Laura: ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE TODAY.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> Gene: WELCOME BACK TO OUR LINE OPINION PANEL FOR ONE LAST SEGMENT.

PROSECUTORS HAVE DROPPED THE CHARGE AGAINST ACTOR-PRODUCER  ALEC BALDWIN IN THE DEADLY SHOOTING OF THE RUST  CINEMATOGRAPHER HELENA HUTCHINS.

THEY DISMISSED THE CHARGE WITHOUT PREJUDICE.

THE FILM ARMORER HANNAH GUTIERREZ REED IS NOW THE LONE  DEFENDANT IN THE CASE AND FACES A FOURTH DEGREE FELONY  COUNT OF INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER.

PRE-TRIAL HEARING FOR HER HAS BEEN DELAYED FROM MID MAY TO  MID AUGUST.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR A CASE  TO BE DISMISSED WITHOUT PREJUDICE?

WHAT SHOULD THE PUBLIC TAKE FROM THAT MOVE BY PROSECUTORS?

>> Sophie: WELL, THERE ARE A COUPLE OF THINGS TO NOTE.

THE FIRST IS THE PROSECUTOR IS RESERVING THE RIGHT TO REFILE  THE CASE.

SO, THEY ARE SAYING, WE ARE  NOT GOING TO MOVE FORWARD RIGHT NOW, BUT IT IS POSSIBLE  THAT CIRCUMSTANCES WOULD NECESSITATE FILING AGAIN IN  THE FUTURE, EITHER THE SAME CHARGES OR DIFFERENT CHARGES,  BUT RESERVING THE RIGHT TO FILE ON THE SAME CHARGES.

THIS IS PRETTY TYPICAL, I THINK, IN SITUATIONS WHERE  THERE IS AN EVOLVING CASE.

THEY DON'T QUITE KNOW WHAT  EVIDENCE MIGHT COME FORWARD, YOU KNOW, BE BROUGHT FORTH IN  THE FUTURE.

>> Gene: THE TWO FOLKS THAT ARE ON THE CASE MADE THAT POINT.

WE ARE LOOKING AT A LOT OF EVIDENCE NOW.

>> Sophie: I THINK THAT IS AN IMPORTANT THING TO NOTE IS THAT NEW EVIDENCE IS RUMORED  TO HAVE COME TO THE FORE AND THERE IS SOME GREAT REPORTING  THAT HELPED TO SORT OF EXPLAIN THAT TO THE COMMUNITY.

BUT WE ARE NOT GOING TO SORT OF JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS.

WE ARE GOING TO DO THE DUE DILIGENCE THAT IS NECESSARY  AND MAKE SURE THAT THE CHARGES THAT WE ARE BRINGING, SORT OF  SPEAKING IN THE VOICE OF THE PROSECUTOR WHICH I DON'T  NORMALLY DO, BUT THE CHARGES THAT ARE BROUGHT FORWARD,  PROSECUTORS WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE ONES THAT THEY HAVE  THE LIKELIHOOD OF WINNING, RIGHT?

THEY HAVE GOT TO GET THROUGH SEVERAL STEPS.

PART OF THE PURPOSE OF DISMISSING THE CHARGES WITHOUT  PREJUDICE AT THIS POINT, AND I'LL SAY MAYBE THIS WAS IMPLIED.

IF YOU DO IT WITH PREJUDICE, THAT MEANS WE ARE DONE HERE.

IF YOU DO IT WITHOUT  PREJUDICE, PART OF IT IS IT STOPS THE CLOCK ON NEW MEXICO'S SPEEDY TRIAL REQUIREMENT.

THERE IS A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME THAT CAN ELAPSE FROM WHEN YOU BRING CHARGES TO WHEN THE TRIAL HAPPENS.

THERE IS FLEXIBILITY IN THERE BUT THEY ARE BASICALLY SAYING,  WE ARE GOING TO STOP THE CLOCK ON THIS ONE BECAUSE WE DON'T  WANT TO RUN UP AGAINST THAT LIMITATION.

IF YOU LOOK AT ME AND ASK ME HOW MANY DAYS THAT IS, I WILL  SAY, I FORGOT THAT RIGHT AFTER LAW SCHOOL BECAUSE I DON'T  WORK IN CRIMINAL LAW.

>> Gene: DAN, INTERESTING,  SOPHIE MENTIONED ABOUT NEW THINGS THAT COMING UP.

THE UNNAMED SOURCE TOLD PHAEDRA HAYWOOD AT THE SANTA  FE NEW MEXICAN THAT THE REVOLVER MR. BALDWIN USED FOR  THE DEADLY SHOT HAD BEEN FITTED WITH A NEW HAMMER AT  SOME POINT.

THAT'S A BIG DEAL BECAUSE THE  FBI REPORT STATED THE GUN COULDN'T HAVE FIRED BY ITSELF  AND, OF COURSE, THIS IS TO BE DETERMINED LATER IN THE COURT  CASE, BUT THAT IS AN INTERESTING LITTLE TWIST THERE.

WE HAVE SORT OF BEEN LOOKING AT THAT GUN AND HOW MR. BALDWIN HANDLED IT, BUT  NOT NECESSARILY THE WEAPON ITSELF.

WHAT DOES THIS SAY TO YOU?

>> Dan: THAT GOES TO SOPHIE'S  POINT A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS EVOLVING EVIDENCE IN THE CASE,  YOU KNOW.

IT DOES RAISE QUESTIONS IN MY  MIND ABOUT THE INITIAL INVESTIGATION, TOO, BUT  CLEARLY MAYBE SOME NEW EVIDENCE HAS COME TO LIGHT,  YOU KNOW, ABOUT THIS GUN AND EXACTLY IF IT COULD HAVE FIRED  ACCIDENTALLY OR NOT.

SO, I MEAN, THAT MAY WELL BE  BEHIND SOME OF THIS DECISION.

I THINK POLITICALLY IT KIND OF  RAISES THE QUESTION WHETHER THE DA MIGHT HAVE GOTTEN A  LITTLE IN FRONT OF HER SKIS A LITTLE BIT WITH THE INITIAL  CHARGES, SO THAT WILL BE -- >> Gene: THE ENHANCEMENT THAT  WAS DROPPED.

>> Dan: RIGHT.

A LOT OF THAT HAS COME FROM A POLITICAL PERSPECTIVE, BUT  FROM A LEGAL PROSECUTOR, THE SPECIAL PROSECUTORS THAT ARE  NOW ON THE CASE SEEM TO BE PROCEEDING A LITTLE CAUTIOUSLY  WITH THIS, WHILE STILL LEAVING THE DOOR OPEN FOR WHAT KIND OF  EVIDENCE DOES EMERGE.

>> Gene: KERRY MORRIS AND  JASON LEWIS, OF COURSE, NAMED THEM EARLIER, THANK YOU FOR  DOING THAT, SPECIAL PROSECUTORS, AND DOES THIS  FEEL MORE LEGITIMATE TO YOU THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE ON BOARD?

THE TONE HAS CHANGED A LOT, HASN'T IT?

>> Cathryn: YEAH, I THINK THE PROSECUTOR BECAME THE STORY AND ALL OF THE MEDIA CIRCUS  THAT WAS INVOLVED IN IT.

NOW IT SEEMS LIKE PERHAPS THEY  ARE DOING SOMETHING THAT IS A LITTLE MORE PASSIVE, BUT THE  CLOCK DOESN'T STOP ON PUBLIC OPINION RELATED TO WHAT IS  HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.

AND IT LOOKS LIKE ALEC BALDWIN  IS LET OFF BECAUSE HE IS A CELEBRITY AND THEY JUST ANNOUNCED THAT FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE THAT, WELL, IT IS OVER, YOU KNOW.

SO, THAT BECAME THE STORY THAT  THE CHARGES WERE DROPPED IS WHAT THEY ANNOUNCED TO EVERYONE.

THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE START TO SEE AND THEN THEY QUESTION THAT.

SO I DO HOPE THAT PEOPLE WILL NOT FORGET HELENA HUTCHINS.

WHO LOST HER LIFE.

THROUGH NO FAULT OF HER OWN  AND SOMEBODY IS RESPONSIBLE.

>> Gene: ON THAT VERY POINT  CATHY MCGILL, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

SOPHIE, TURN TO YOU.

I GET THIS QUESTION A LOT.

WE HAVE A PERSON WHO PLED OUT OR APPARENTLY GOT A PLEA DEAL.

CAN THOSE BE TURNED AROUND?

I HAVE HAD PEOPLE ASK ME, DOES  THIS GUY KNOW SOMETHING AND WHY WAS HE ALLOWED TO DO THIS  DEAL AND CAN WE UNDO THE DEAL?

>> Sophie: THE MAJORITY OF  CASES ACTUALLY DO END UP IN PLEA AGREEMENTS.

SO, I THINK THAT IT IS SHORTSIGHTED TO LOOK AT THAT  AND SAY, WELL, THAT IS THE SIGN OF SOME SORT OF SMOKING GUN.

IT COULD BE SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS HE DIDN'T HAVE THE RESOURCES TO FULLY DEFEND  HIMSELF, FELT THAT HE WASN'T GOING TO GET -- I MEAN, I  DON'T WANT TO IN ANY WAY IMPUGN THE EXPERTISE OF THE  PUBLIC DEFENDERS, BUT THEY WILL HAVE BEEN TALKING WITH  HIM, IF THAT IS WHO HE WAS WORKING WITH.

I ACTUALLY DON'T KNOW IF HE HAD PRIVATE COUNSEL OR NOT,  BUT THERE IS A CALCULATION THAT IS MADE IN MANY CRIMINAL  TRIALS WHERE A PERSON SAYS, I CAN END THIS NOW, AND ALL THAT  MEANS, OR I CAN GO TO TRIAL AND THERE ARE GREATER RISKS TO ME.

I THINK IT IS WORTH KEEPING IN MIND THE MAJORITY OF CRIMINAL CASES WE DO SEE THESE OFFERS  FOR PLEA DEALS AND OFTEN DO SEE THAT THEY ARE TAKEN.

>> Gene: DOES IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE THAT THE PLEA DEAL  WAS MADE WITH THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY BUT NOT WITH THESE SPECIAL PROSECUTORS.

DOES THAT MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN  THE LEGAL WORLD?

>> Sophie: I DON'T BELIEVE  THAT IT WILL.

I DON'T BELIEVE THAT IT WILL.

THAT IS ACTUALLY AN INTERESTING WRINKLE THAT I HAVEN'T THOUGHT ABOUT BEFORE.

>> Gene: PEOPLE ARE SPEAKING,  CATHY, IN SORT OF THIS CRYPTIC LANGUAGE NOW THAT WE ARE  BACKING UP A LITTLE BIT, WE ARE TAKING A LOOK AT OTHER  THINGS.

ARE WE ANTICIPATING SOME MAJOR  THING TO COME DOWN HERE?

I AM NOT SURE PERSONALLY I CAN  SEE SOMETHING.

CAN YOU SEE SOMETHING THAT  THESE FOLKS CAN COME UP WITH?

>> Cathryn: I DON'T SEE ANYTHING.

IT HAS BEEN ALMOST TWO YEARS NOW AND CERTAINLY THERE HAVE BEEN INVESTIGATIONS.

I HOPE THOSE INVESTIGATIONS WERE COMPREHENSIVE AND THEY  HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION THAT THEY NEEDED TO MAKE A DECISION  ABOUT PROSECUTION.

SO I DON'T SEE ANYTHING NEW.

>> Gene: WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, DAN, WE HAVE HAD THE STATE  POLICE INVESTIGATE, FBI INVESTIGATE, DA'S OFFICE HAS  INVESTIGATED.

SHERIFF'S OFFICE.

SANTA FE SHERIFF'S OFFICE.

EVERYBODY HAS INVESTIGATED.

BUT WE HAVE ALL THESE DIFFERENT ANGLES OF ATTACK HERE.

THERE IS NOT A SINGLE COHESIVE LINE OF REASONING HERE, WHICH IS WHY WE GO TO COURT, OF COURSE, TO SUSS THESE THINGS OUT.

BUT WHAT DOES IT SAY ABOUT THIS CASE?

IS IT REALLY ALL THAT COMPLICATED THAT ALL THESE  INVESTIGATORS ARE COMING UP WITH DIFFERENT CONCLUSIONS?

>> Dan: MAYBE IT IS, BUT I THINK ALSO WHEN YOU GET THAT  MANY JURISDICTIONS INVOLVED, EVERYBODY HAS THEIR OWN LITTLE  TAKE OR THEIR OWN FOCUS OF AN INVESTIGATION.

IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE IT SHOULD BE THAT COMPLICATED, LIKE,  CATHY MENTIONED TWO YEARS ALMOST AFTER THE FACT.

BUT CLEARLY THERE IS STILL UNRESOLVED ISSUES THERE.

I WAS INTERESTED THAT THEY ARE GOING ON WITH FILMING THE SHOW  AFTER ALL THIS, NOT IN NEW MEXICO, BUT IN MONTANA, I BELIEVE.

>> Gene: LIKE IT NEVER HAPPENED.

>> Sophie: THAT IS AN ELEMENT OF THE CIVIL CASE IN WHICH MS. HUTCHINS' HUSBAND, IN ORDER TO RECEIVE A PAY OUT ON  THE CIVIL CASE, HE IS NOW PRODUCER ON THE SHOW.

AND I THINK THIS IS ACTUALLY -- I DON'T MEAN THIS  FACETIOUSLY -- I AM QUITE CONFIDENT THAT HE IS A  PRODUCER THAT DOES NOT HAVE ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR  FIREARMS ON THE SET.

AND IT IS WORTH NOTING THIS IS  ALSO AN ELEMENT OF IT.

THIS IS THE SORT OF WHO HAS  RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT?

>> Gene: EVEN AS A PRODUCER,  NOT NECESSARILY.

>> Sophie: EVEN AS A PRODUCER.

>> DAN, THE MEDIA.

IS IT REASONABLE AT THIS POINT  TO TALK ABOUT WHAT THE RESPONSIBILITY WE HAVE TO GIVE  THE ENTIRE PICTURE TO THE PUBLIC IN SOME WAY, BUT THIS  IS AN EVOLVING CASE AS WELL.

YOU CAN ONLY REPORT SO MUCH OF  THE FACTS BUT IN A HIGH PROFILE CELEBRITY DRIVEN CASE  THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN, DOES IT?

IT IS A CIRCUS.

IT IS A MEDIA CIRCUS.

HOW DID WE DO ON THIS ONE IN  YOUR OPINION?

>> Dan: WITH THE CAVEAT I  HAVEN'T COVERED THIS CASE MYSELF, BUT MY COLLEAGUES HAVE  AND I THINK WHEN YOU HAVE THE INTERNATIONAL MEDIA SHOWING UP  FOR -- AND I THINK SOME OF THE LOCAL AUTHORITIES MAYBE AREN'T  USED TO THAT, THAT KIND OF LEVEL OF MEDIA VERY  AGGRESSIVE, SO I DON'T KNOW, I THINK THERE HAVE BEEN SOME  THINGS THAT MAYBE HAVE BEEN -- SOME HEADLINES THAT MAYBE ARE  A LITTLE STRONGER THAN THE FACTS AND THERE IS MORE  NUANCES TO THE CASES ESPECIALLY WITH THE CASE BEING  DISMISSED BUT POSSIBLY BEING REFILED.

I DON'T KNOW THAT THE MEDIA -- I THINK THE LOCAL MEDIA DID A  GOOD JOB.

I AM NOT SURE WHETHER THOSE  NUANCES WERE REALLY CONVEYED  FROM THE TOP PRESS.

>> GENE: I APPRECIATE YOU  SAYING IT THAT WAY.

THANKS AGAINST TO THE LINE  PANEL AS ALWAYS.

BE SURE TO LET US KNOW WHAT  YOU THINK ABOUT ANY OF THE TOPICS THE LINE COVERED ON OUR  FACEBOOK, TWITTER OR INSTAGRAM PAGES AND CATCH UP ON ANY  EPISODE YOU MIGHT HAVE MISSED ON THE PBS APP OR YOUR ROKU OR SMART TV.

AS ALWAYS, THANKS AGAIN FOR  JOINING US AND STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK, IN FOCUS.

FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.