A stunning turn of events on the handgun license bill.

Senator Todd Young on Russia and Ukraine.

Plus, Holcomb's latest position on tax cuts and more for the week ending February 25, 2022.

"Indiana Week in qualify review" is made possible by: This week, in a stunning move, a Senate committee effectively gutted a bill that would've eliminated Indiana's license requirement to carry a handgun in public.

That change came in the final minutes of the hearing, after eight hours of testimony and debate.

The bill, as it stood at the end of the committee hearing, kept Indiana's handgun carry permit system in place.

And it added a new, "provisional" license - a temporary permit a person can use to carry a handgun in public while the state processes their application for the permanent handgun license.

But almost no one testified on such a proposal.

Rather, the eight hours was spent debating whether to eliminate the licenses entirely.

Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter raised eyebrows as he called out Republican lawmakers and their supermajorities.

In impassioned testimony, he said the permit system gives police in the field the only quick way to check whether a person is legally allowed to carry.

>> It's often so easy to talk about your support for public safety.

If you choose to support this bill, you will not be supporting us.

You will not be supporting your frontline officer.

>> Most of the law enforcement groups in the state opposed the original bill - the Chiefs of Police, the Fraternal Order of Police, the Prosecuting Attorneys Council and the State Police.

But law enforcement opposition was not universal.

Martin County Sheriff Travis Roush says the permit system gives officers a false sense of security.

SHERIFF TRAVIS ROUSH: POSSESSING A PERMIT DOES NOT EXCLUDE A HUMAN BEING FROM VIOLENCE >> The next day, Senate GOP leader Rodric Bray announced that the committee's amendment violated Senate rules, halting the bill from moving forward.

But House and Senate leaders intend to resurrect the original permitless carry language in a new landing spot before the end of session.

>> What should we make of the drama around the handgun license bill?

It's the first question for our Indiana Week in Review panel Democrat Ann DeLaney Republican Mike O'Brien Kaitlin Lange, Statehouse reporter for the Indianapolis Star and Niki Kelly, Statehouse reporter for the Fort Wayne Journal Gazette I'm Indiana Public Broadcasting Statehouse reporter Brandon Smith Ann DeLaney, are you surprised by how all this is going down?

>> Well, I -- you know, I'm almost reluctant to compliment.

It will give more ammo to the right wings kooks.

If you are supportive of law enforcement, this is a bad bill.

It just increases the likelihood there will be violence, deaths by handguns, and I think it took a lot of courage for him to stand up there and say what he said.

He spoke the truth.

I give him a lot of credit for that.

I'm sure he's being attacked by the right wing kooks who think the constitution has no restrictions on it.

He's feeling a lot of heat.

He's somebody to be admired for speaking the truth to power.

>> What should we take away from what Doug Carter said?

To call it unusual to see an administration official come to testify in the committee and be that sharply critical of republic lawmakers.

Unusual seems to be putting it mildly, yes?

>> Yes.

It was a long day though.

By the time he got up there was pretty wild.

I think the committee was inclined to not hear that support at all.

There was broad support for this in the House and Senate.

There's not a lot of eight-hour hearings on issues that controversial.

Maybe outside of the education committee.

You know, I think tempers were running pretty hot by that point.

I think people were pretty worn down by the end of the hearing.

I don't say that to say that Superintendent Carter didn't believe what he said or wasn't entirely offbase What you are seeing in the hearing is a wide variety of opinions on the issue.

I think the majority -- I think ultimately it is going to prevail.

I'm not a gun nut.

I don't -- I don't believe that law-abiding gun owners should have to prove first they are not law-abiden gun owners who people are breaking the laws with guns all the time and have no regard for the permit system, much less using the gun for violence.

I do tend to the argument that they penalize the law-abiding gun owners.

That's going to be the debate that wins the day despite of the hearing on Wednesday.

I think we'll see how it plays out in the next week certainly.

I think it will be back.

You know, I think it is probably, ultimately, going to pass.

>> You get to talk twice.

I love it.

You go.

Then I two.

Then you go again.

>> Kaitlyn.

>> It is called final argument.

>> You and I talked about it on Wednesday night.

Which I thought was important.

Everything that Doug Carter said, which I think raised a lot of eyebrows to anyone that was listening.

He wasn't just doing this off of the cuff after hours and hours of testimony.

This was a written, prepared speech.

>> Yeah.

He said nobody had seen the remarks yet.

Sort of saying that.

He had prepared this.

This is something he worked on, thought about, and really wanted to say.

I think it is right that he was really passionate about the topic.

He obviously cares about his police officers.

But it was very surprising to see this from somebody that was appointed by both former Governor Mike Pence and Eric Holcomb, I can't think of a time when we've seen a call out in the administration.

Even when you talk about the court fight between the general assembly and him over the executive powers bill.

Even Holcomb is always very careful to say this is a minor disagreement.

Here you have you can say it is almost a moral failing.

>> The version of the bill is going to come back and pass before the end of the session.

I don't know if Governor Holcomb will sign it.

It gets over written.

You wrote a story this past week that says republicans don't seem to be following their own constituents on the issue.

>> That's true.

I looked at all of the Senate Republican constituent surveys that were posted.

Some were posted and weren't provided to me when asked.

You know, I think 15 of them included a question.

The average when it was just a choice for key to repeal the law was 88% keep and 12% repeal.

Of course these aren't scientific surveys.

They match all of the other polling that you've seen which is a majority of Hoosiers think that's common sense, you know, law.

And that it is not too of much to ask.

One of the more interesting parts of the hearing honestly was the comparison between exercising your right to vote and, you know, you have to register.

They have to make sure you live there.

They have to make sure you are who you are.

You have to show an ID.

That's also an constitutional right that has, you know, regulations.

>> 88%.

>> It does.

The rest of the results.

The rest of the results on a lot of those surveys don't match the "Indiana Week in Review" poll results.

It says they need to be unified and resolute.

Young speaking this week just prior to Russia's invasion of Ukraine was largely complimentary of the Biden Administration's steps.

>> President Biden announced the sanction targeting the ability to move sanctions with the west to clear two Ukrainian region as independent and ordering them as peace keepers.

Young says the sanctions are the right move.

He says any American military action should be limiting to countries that border Ukraine.

>> Our existing NATO allies in order to deter any encroachment on their territory.

>> Asked about former President Trump's comments praising Putin, he didn't rebuke Trump.

>> All of us need to be clear that Putin is a threat to the order that has benefited countless Americans.

>> They stress the need for the account in Germany.

>> Mike O'Bryan, we addressed this.

Why should Hoosiers care what's going on two countries halfway around the world?

>> It is always a challenge to get Americans to care about anything happening outside of their own backyard.

What it means the stabilization in eastern Europe or central Europe and what impact that has on Hoosiers.

I think Russia has become head of the everpresent, you know, political dynamic in our elections.

We certainly saw the effect it had in 2016 and beyond.

You know, as we discovered after the election the impact that -- at least if not the impact then certainly the effort by Russia to destabilize the United States.

He is -- you know, Russia does seem to be taking advantage of disarray in the rest and social unrest in the United States.

You know, the prioritization of those issues to move.

Sanctions, you know, President Biden should put tough sanctions on them.

Sanctions come both ways.

They do have a negative impact on the people that Russia is doing business with outside of Russia.

Whether that's energy exports or agriculture experts, and other things they are banking just the financial institutions.

In Europe and the United States.

There's a real impact.

In NATO too.

It was bizarre I thought Russia presided other the U.N. security council.

It is in everyone's interest looking at history having Russia make a significant move and unprovoked move to reunify Russia and disrupt kind of the post Cold War if not the post World War II order.

>> Todd Young pointed out that Americans should care about what Russia is doing with Ukraine.

If you let Russia do whatever they want here, it is going to embolden others.

To do what they want.

He pointed specifically to China and Taiwan.

Is that a reason to pay attention to what's going on in Europe?

>> I think that's right.

It reminds me so much of what happened to Hitler.

We are talking about all people that speak government.

The Russia wanted the Soviet Union again.

I think Senator Young's endorsement of what President Biden is doing is good and healthy and normal approach to a foreign policy threat like the Russians present.

It was supposed to be united.

We're not supposed to criticize it and call for more action.

I don't know if she's calling for us to invade the Ukraine.

Beside sanctions and putting troops around the Ukraine in our NATO allies which is what President Biden is doing, the next step is invading.

I don't know if that's what she is falling for or not.

I certainly don't appreciate her comments.

Nor do I appreciate Donald Trump's -- >> She's Ukrainian.

I mean.

>> I thought she was Russian.

>> She's got a unique perspective.

>> Ukrainian that speaks Russian or Russian that lives in Ukraine?

>> I don't know.

I think she's more qualified to comment on this than you are.

Whatever she is.

>> Are you trying to have the last word here?

Yeah.

I think you are.

>> Ukraine in Congresswoman.

>> Senator Young is the right approach.

I think -- Mike is right.

Currently imposing these kinds of restrictions on Russia is going to have an impact even on us.

It is still the right thing to do.

You can't let a dictator like him be a threat to world order.

He is.

>> I want to ask in terms of the politics here, we can't avoid the politics here.

Todd Young, I asked him directly.

Former President Trump's comment art Vladmir Putin problematic?

He didn't answer the question.

He gave the answer that we heard in the piece.

Putin is a threat.

He's maintained that throughout Is he walking the fine line that you have to walk without criticizing and not agreeing with him at the same time?

>> Yeah.

I think the republic party is in kind of a weird position right now.

Because Trump's comments were kind of unexpected.

So republicans have the issue do they speak out against President Trump or President Biden here?

Todd Young has been seen in the know on the international issues.

Obviously he gets to bypass the May primary, which I think does help him in the situation stick to what he would have.

That's support what President Biden is doing more or less on the issue I think had he had to compete, we might have seen a slightly different tone from him.

He has to walk the fine line, like you mentioned.

>> It is a long time until November.

Or even May for that matter when it comes to politics.

What kind of impact, if any here at home, and in Indiana, what might we see from this foreign policy conflict?

This is the foreign policy conflict.

It is impossible to engage.

It can be quick, short, or long.

I mean I think the one thing republicans can agree on, if they can't agree on announcing Putin, is they can agree on denouncing Biden.

>> Time now for the feedback.

How concerned are you about Russia's invasion of Ukraine?

A.

Very concerned B.

Somewhat concerned C. Not very concerned D. Not at all concerned Last week's question: Should the Hoosier Lottery offer online games?

76% said yes.

If you would like to take part in the poll go to WFYI.org/IWIR and look for the poll.

Governor Eric Holcomb gave a boost to House Republicans this week, expressing support for more significant tax cuts this session.

Holcomb has, for weeks, largely sided with Senate Republicans who've been reluctant to endorse major tax reductions this session.

The governor's agenda did include a reduction in the business personal property tax, but only on new equipment.

But now, Holcomb says new looks at Indiana's economic picture indicate the state can support both significant tax cuts and the kind of increased spending priorities he's looking for in a new budget next year.

>> Niki Kelly, what kind of leverage does this give House Republicans as they try to get Senate Republicans to budge on tax cuts?

>> I think they are in great shape right now.

The idea that they do the new moddable ing seemed to have shifted the debate of it.

As far as I can tell from Senate Republicans they were against it, they are sticking down to we need to pay down the pension.

As long as that's part of the package whereas they got rid of that.

It sounds like they are going to be willing to give them, you know, some tax cuts.

And it is looking more like the income and the utilities tax than some of the others.

>> Kaitlyn, when we talked to the Senate President, he kept using the phrase they will find a landing spot on the tax cut bill.

It sounds like they are starting to move already, yeah?

>> Right.

I would be shocked if we didn't see some tax cuts in the final bill.

You know, I don't know if we'll get all of them.

But there are definitely some points that seem more likely that both Holcomb and the house seem more confident and more in favor of.

Like the business personal property tax cuts and the income tax cut.

The other thing to keep in mind is there are multiple issues being worked out between Holcomb and the chambers.

This is interesting to see how all of who gets what they want in the end on this the vaccine mandate bill, the handgun bill, critical race theory bill, all of these, I think, it does -- each side will have to pick what they care about the most, I think.

>> Should make for an interesting couple of weeks.

Mike, it sounds to Nicki's point sounds like the income tax or the House Republicans are starting to focus on.

The first initial agenda had the -- or at least one version of the property tax reduction on new equipment in the agenda.

Senate republicans don't seem too favorable on that.

So if we don't end up with the business personal property tax reduction, is that still a loss for Eric Holcomb?

>> I don't think so.

They disagreed on the millions.

Revenue is going to be able to support making the tax reductions.

It is clear they will support and the timing is what you are willing to support The property tax piece there's a lot of different ways to do that in a way that doesn't impact locals and in a way that doesn't impact your bottom line right now and phases over time.

That's a long-term tax.

You buy a piece of equipment today, you are not hitting the 30% floor for sometime.

There's just different levers to pull here.

They are all on the same panels -- on the policy outcome.

They are on different pages on the timing.

As it becomes clear and more reliable, the timetables have been changing.

>> Ann Delaney, the house Republican tax cut was $1.4 billion is what it will cost the state per year eventually when all of the tax cuts are effective.

What do you think the number is -- give me a ballpark of what you think they land on by the end of the session?

>> Probably the $1.5 million.

We're losing out of all of the major development that are comes to states other than Indiana.

We'll cut these back.

The income tax people.

Some of them making $8 an hour.

For everybody else, I hope they give it to charity.

It is meaningless in terms of the quality of life for people.

It is devastating to the state budget.

We should be using those funds to make this a better place for businesses to invest.

We're not doing it.

We all -- they are just a one-trick pony.

Cut taxes.

Cut taxes.

Cut taxes.

No other initiative or policy.

Except their right wing agenda.

>> I will say there's a bill ended up trying to attract more of the major projects.

It's gotten interesting.

Moving on, the Senate committee this week halted a bill that would have made it harder for state agencies to create new rules.

That seals the fate as lawmakers started to turn their eyes towards advancing the issue next year.

>> State agencies pass dozens of rules.

Many republicans, including the bill author believes the state agencies which have been under GOP leadership for over two decades are overly burdensome.

>> I can't understand why they are scared of transparency and oversight.

>> Senate commerce and technology chair largely agrees The perfect block to vote on the bill, because he says he still had two many issues with the measure.

>> There are several things that I support that should be one size fits all.

There were two many things that affected agencies differently.

>> Perfect.

They urged them opposed to the bill to work on the issue before the next session, pledging to revisit it.

>> Kaitlyn Lange, it appears to be dead.

Is it?

>> Nothing is dead until you see it die.

It can easily be inserted into another bill before the end of the session.

I don't know how likely it is with the topic.

You had mentioned.

It might be something for next year instead Governor Holcomb's office has pushed back on this fairly strongly.

Multiple people from the administration were in the audience at the last hearing I was told to show their opposition to the measure.

I think there are plenty of lawmakers who have similar concerns to the Senator that every agency is very different.

What rules they have and how it would impact them even when we were reaching out to agencies some seemed not concerned at all about this.

Just because of their nature of their agency.

Whereas others obviously will be impacted.

It also doesn't seem to be a top priority for any social, conservative groups that I've seen so far or from legislative leadership.

So it is not like the vaccine mandate bill or the handgun carry bill where you are having hours of testimony.

There wasn't that much testimony on the bill.

I don't think the will would be there to go over the head on the issue.

>> At least not this year.

But Nicki, a policy aside, how refreshing was it to hear a committee chair say in a public hearing, hey, I'm not going to advance the bill.

Here's exactly why.

>> Yeah.

Wouldn't that be great?

Can they just do that at all committees?

I would appreciate that.

One thing I want to note on the bill is there's a lot of talk about thousands of agency rules.

There are.

And there are, because the legislature authorized them to make rules to implement laws.

So one of the things that I think that's missing from the debate so far is give me examples of these rules that you think they are doing in some manner that are wrong.

We hear about legislating from the bench.

I feel like they are accusing legislating from the executive branch.

I at leat have asked and not been given any examples of that.

>> I agree.

I thought the same way when covering the bill.

That's "Indiana Week in Review" for this week.

Our panel is Democrat Ann Delaney, Mike O'Brien, Kaitlin, Nicki, and I'm Brandon Smith.

Join us next time.

A lot can happen in an