[upbeat music plays] - Hello, I'm Nido Qubein, welcome to Side by Side.

Our guest today is the student who went to A&T University and then became it's chancellor, Dr. Harold Martin.

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[upbeat music plays] ♪ - Dr. Martin, welcome to "Side by Side".

I have been wanting to ask you some questions.

I get to see you every so often, but this is gonna be a wonderful time where I dig into your heart and your mind and get some answers.

I am so impressed with you.

You have done so much for the world of higher education.

You're the son of a minister.

You grew up in Winston-Salem.

Your daddy was a dedicated father.

He was a minister on the one side.

He had to drive a truck to supplement your upbringing.

In spite of it, your parents saw to it that you and your two siblings went to college.

You went to A&T, all three of you, and now you're the chancellor of the largest HBCU, historically black college and university, in all of the land.

You know a lot about education as it is education, as it is going to be.

You were the president, chancellor of Winston-Salem State.

And of course, you were in the UNC System as senior vice president for many years.

Harold, what do you see as the future of education in America?

When you talk about affordability, when you talk about some people in the media saying going to college is not important, when you talk about online versus in-person.

All these elements and all these forces are working for the good or for the not so good, I'm not quite sure.

What is it that you see?

- Great question.

First and foremost, I'm absolute delight to be here with you.

I always enjoy our conversations, quite honestly, and this is a great opportunity to share perspectives that we mutually have interests in.

I think higher education though, first and foremost, is too critically important to our nation and to the world.

First and foremost, on the importance of higher education in my own personal life and how it's been very transformative in that of my brother and my sister.

And many of those bright and talented students we had a great pleasure of serving at North Carolina A&T.

- [Nido] How many, how many students altogether?

- [Harold] 13, two.

- 13, 13,200.

[Harold] - That's correct.

And so we anticipate that based on all of the conversations I have and my colleagues and I have with business leaders all over the world, higher education is still critically important to help them to prepare a workforce that constantly ensures that these organizations are globally competitive in very significant ways, and are changing in very significant ways as well.

So, first and foremost, I believe universities must be continually reflecting on the needs of these industries and organizations who are looking for our graduates and ensuring that we are being as flexible as we can to deliver education in a quality way, to meet their needs, but also believe that those who are seeking our education are demanding that it'll be delivered to them in very different ways, as well, in a much more flexible way.

More want, certainly, online education to meet their needs at very different times per their work schedules and the like.

And we have to continue to deliver in that space.

Affordability continues to be a big part of that conversation as well, because we cannot continue to price ourselves out of the market.

So, so many areas of continuing debate and conversation, however, in my mind, and that of those with whom I interact, higher education is still critically vital and important to our nation and the world as a whole.

- I mean, in certain corners of the world, they believe in higher education so much, certain countries, that they even want to send their students to America, to learn the American way and learn how to be marketers and managers and all and all the rest.

But, but when I, when I read, as you read, all these journal articles and essays, all this, supposedly, empirical research about what is and what can be, when I read all of the journals, whether it's the Chronicle of Higher Education, Inside Higher Education, any of those, there's a significant amount of questioning about who we are and who we can become.

And that's the genre of my question.

And I just heard you say that we have to prepare students for their tomorrows too.

So, so is it safe for me to say to you that therefore going to college is not simply about attaining knowledge?

- It's not just about attaining the knowledge.

It's about gaining the civic skills and cultural skills and enrichment skills that are necessary, in addition to, those strategic skills that are necessary to be successful in work and in life, quite honestly, understanding what's going on around them, and in the world around them, but also appreciating the differences in a multitude of individuals, both in their communities and their places of work, as well as in the world, because of the significant importance of respecting and appreciating individuals of difference.

- You know, Harold I'm familiar with, with a survey or the research that spoke about the five reasons why college graduates, upon graduation, upon entry into the workforce, why they sometimes fail.

Fail, not as in being demolished, but fail as not achieving the highest level of their potential.

And one of those, one of those questions in that survey was asking about the percentage of colleges that are providing for students technical skills versus life skills.

It was making the point that employers want graduates to be familiar with life skills, you know, communication, teamwork, decision-making, problem solving, a future view of trends.

All of those things that are imperative.

Some are technically oriented and some are more emotionally oriented, if you will, EQ and IQ merged together.

What do you think are the one or two things that a college graduate must possess to be truly valuable in the workforce, in the workforce, that is changing every day dynamically so?

In a world that is flat, what is it that they must know to prepare themselves for the world as it is going to be?

- Well, I think one of the critical issues, of course, as you've mentioned, the ability to communicate effectively to work in teams, but also to have a great sense of flexibility.

As individuals move into the workplace, workplace continually changes.

We've seen it in our university, the talents we continue to recruit to our universities, but graduates we are producing, we are driven to encourage them strongly to continue to value the importance of lifelong learning.

Continuing to engage in building their skills, understanding how to engage, understanding how the technologies are changing around them, quite honestly.

And how they see themselves continue to contribute to those organizations as well.

But in my mind, it's also equally as important for those individuals, not only what they do within their workplace, but how they expand themselves and how they make contributions and enhance the quality of their communities as well.

That takes one a very different set of skills as well.

- What are some of those skills?

- [Harold] Some of those skills are understanding what those needs are.

Not everyone in their communities are benefiting from education and wealth and et cetera.

There are those who have great needs, the homeless, those without health insurance, for example, those who are struggling in school and need help with support in school, for instance.

Those individuals in our community who are without food and are living in food deserts.

- Enrolled in the university?

- Enrolled in university.

We're finding it throughout higher education in much more significant ways.

We have incredibly bright students who are going to college in general, and we have them attending our university or coming from varying backgrounds, incredibly bright, but they need assistance in all of those support areas.

Those things we call wraparound services that are critically important to ensuring that they are going to be successful and not distracted by life's issues, so that they can continue to focus on the academics as well.

- And, Harold, I think you'd agree with me that there are a lot of people out there opining about higher education.

You hear comments like, you know, colleges are about indoctrinating students.

Colleges are bastions of fill in the blank, whether it's political leaning, whether it's some other leaning and so on.

And there is some disenchantment in our country about, if not the value, about the structure or the delivery of higher education.

- Where am I wrong?

- I think higher education has always been about providing information and challenging young people and students to think.

Not what to think, but how to think.

And lots of information is shared by a diverse group of faculty members and experiences and technical competencies.

And that's what higher education is all about.

It's teaching young people and students, how to think, how to decipher information that they are receiving from a variety of spaces and making good personal decisions.

From my own personal experiences as a student and subsequently as a faculty member and as an administrator, I'm not seeing the evidence of universities, and I've worked in a number, and I've led at least two institutions where there's evidence that the institutions and their faculty are conscientiously seeking to indoctrinate students by any measure.

One of my former leaders at our university said to our university and our students, "It is not our responsibility to teach you what to think, but how to think."

- [Nido] Yes.

- And I think institutions in the, in the most form, seek to try to do that.

- [Nido] So you're suggesting that to do that, to accomplish that, occasionally you have to give varying points of view, sometimes quite different points of view about different matter.

And it is up to all of us to bring that together.

I, I believe it is the duty of educators and leaders of universities, you and, and, and me included in that.

And we have to interpret the value of a university in ways that the general public, and certainly the employers out there for our students acknowledge the truth in what we say.

- [Harold] Absolutely.

And perception, you know, is reality, so said Tom Peters many years ago.

Sometimes that's true.

Sometimes that's not true, but, but I do think we have a challenge in higher education and it's changing.

And we are getting students today that are quite different.

They, see generation Z, for example, is quite different than, than how most people work in the university understand.

And we have to constantly educate.

And so on.

You do a lot of research at A&T.

That's one of your strengths at A&T.

What is, what areas is that research in and where have been some of your major successes?

- Much of our research, we are a land grant institution, That's why we are heavily STEM.

Although we valued the importance of the arts and the humanities and health sciences, et cetera, much of our research has been focused on science.

Agriculture, we are interested in the science for enhancing, producing more abundant food harvest, changing irrigation systems, the impact of pesticides on foods and food production, for example.

Technologies out of our College of Engineering on nano science in engineering, academic folk, who are looking at ways to improve technologies that enhance communications.

Some of the innovations that have grown out at our faculty, for example, let's take agriculture.

One of our scientists has been working on removing the antigen in peanuts that as an allergen, that causes people to not be able to eat peanuts because it creates in them a reaction, an allergic reaction.

That has been an incredible innovation.

Matter of fact, it's looking now to be commercialized.

One of our faculty members has created and has been focused on new materials being made from a variety of fibers that have tensile strength and compression strengths that are comparable to steel, which allows, and is very lightweight, which allows these new materials to be used for defense manufacturing of aircraft or ships, for example, or in automobile manufacturing, for instance.

And so a variety of technology developments and out of that technology, innovation has grown patents and patent disclosures.

And several companies have spun out of the university as a result, creating jobs in our community and in our state and the nation as well.

And so it's what universities do and what we are excited about.

What our faculty do in that space.

And so it makes a difference.

- [Nido] What, what percentage of your 13,000 students would you say are engaged in, in that type of research?

I mean, they're engaged in many, many kinds of research.

I get that.

But in that research, that scientific research, is it 10%?

Is it 5%?

- It's about 10%.

- [Nido] Are they just engineers, are they?

- They're engineers, they're scientists, they're agricultural animal scientists, if you will, they're social scientists.

We also have social scientists looking at the impact of how technology impacts society.

How it impacts when you get in an automobile and the, the surroundings in ergonomics, are we comfortable in these automobiles?

Or how do we ensure that this technology is not having a damaging impact on society or on the environment?

So social scientists are involved.

Political scientists are involved, for example.

Educators are involved, as we train teachers.

So the teachers are better prepared as we engage with young people and from kindergarten through elementary and high school.

So that they're better informed about the environment.

Lots of discussions are going on today about science and the importance of science.

- [Nido] Yes.

- The importance of the environment and the impact of the environment that humans are having that are changing the society in significance as well.

And so our faculty are engaged, our students are engaged in that high level of research that is making a difference in our community and our society.

- So, Harold, I want to switch this discussion to perhaps some more sensitive issues.

I trust your, your judgment in how you answer some of my questions.

I interviewed one time Dr. Condoleezza Rice, and she said something that impacted me very measurably.

She said she grew up in heavily segregated Birmingham, Alabama in a poor home.

And yet she went on to become as you know, a classical pianist.

She became an expert on Russian politics and history.

She became the only woman, the youngest person, the only Black to become the Provost at Stanford University.

Amazing achievements in spite of amazing adversity.

I want to get into Harold Martin's heart.

You grew up in Winston-Salem probably in segregated times.

How did you become so educated, so learned and such a leader of both our community at large and university campus.

Tell me about the process that you employed, that you became the person that you are.

- You know, I credit first and foremost, my parents.

Very disciplined.

The rules were clear on behavior and expectations and how we would not only engage in our family around the dinner table and the conversations we would have, how we would contribute to the work and survival and support in our home.

But our parents also were clear about the importance of education.

That we were going to do well in school.

And we were expected to go to college and take advantage of the opportunities afforded to us.

But I also think our parents trusted the teachers that they engaged and passed us on to every day in our schools.

K-12 that taught us, influenced our thinking, influenced our performance.

And during that era, a little corrective behavior in your discipline was also appropriate as well.

And those - [Nido] I relate to that.

I've been there.

- Yes.

And so those teachers were an extension of our parents and our family and their values.

And that continued to engage us as we grew up as well.

- [Nido] So, how commonly applicable is that?

Why is our society in such turmoil?

Why are we experiencing, in some cases in our relationships, you know, I don't want to call it lack of civility, but you know what I'm saying?

- [Harold] Yes.

- We are as a whole in America good people and we can do good things.

And yet, sometimes we find this turbulence that goes all around us.

I know it breaks your heart when something like that happens.

Why isn't everybody like Harold Martin?

- I think so much has happened in our society, the breakdown of our communities, We've seen some breakdown and deterioration of our families in our communities as well, where much of that early engagement and training and trust and values are deployed.

And children, as they're being raised, quite honestly, the trust of our school system and teachers who engage children along the way as well.

The church which is critically important in my family, with my father being a minister and the values of religion and Christianity in my own family, quite honestly.

And so we see the loss and lack of influence.

- [Nido] How are we gonna change that?

How are we going to turn this around somehow so that we don't have this, this turmoil?

I mean, I, you would agree with me that universities, for example, play a big part in economic impact in their community, right?

- Yes.

You spoke of research, other ways you and I are involved in some committees in North Carolina and beyond that is, committees are trying to help in economic development and perhaps in HBCUs investments and all those things.

But I'm not quite sure that, that, that sometimes I understand.

I know about affordability.

I know about all the challenges that socially we have, but we have got to turn things around in this country.

- [Harold] I agree, wholeheartedly.

Wholeheartedly.

And that's why I think people like you and people like me have to continue to be out and engage in our communities and organizations and having these important discussions and insisting that we be more inclusive in these discussions and focusing on those things that matter most.

It's more than just about economic growth and prosperity of the community.

It's also about the quality of life and the engagement of supporting those in our community who need our help, who need our assistance, quite honestly.

- [Nido] Yes.

- I am very passionate about this and the work I do with our university, how we engage our students.

We know they come from a very diverse set of circumstances.

They're bright and prepared, but they also come from very different backgrounds and support.

And we have to ensure, as you are ensuring with your influence here at High Point University, that we are creating an environment, a culture that values the differences of our students, and we value how we intake them, but we also are critically focused on how they appear when they leave our universities upon graduation.

- [Nido] Well you nourish their minds nurture their souls.

- [Harold] Absolutely.

- In the time that we have left here, just a couple of minutes.

I want to ask a rapid series of questions.

Just give me a sort of one or two word answers.

Hobbies?

- I Love golf.

Time with family.

Doing fixer-uppers around our home.

My wife has lots of things to do, and those are part of the way I grew up.

And that's how I rest.

- [Nido] Okay.

You've gotten many awards.

What's what's one award that meant the world to you?

- The most significantly recognized award I would probably suggest has been the award by Thurgood Marshall College Fund for contributions to higher education.

- What do you see in the future of Harold Martin?

You're a chancellor of A&T now.

You're, you're a relatively young man.

You have a lot of runway ahead of you.

What is it you want to do with the rest of your life, Harold?

- I want to continue to engage in the transformation of our university.

I want to continue to ensure that what we do as a university, as we do as a community, continues to uplift and ensure the inclusivity of all citizens benefiting from the great qualities of our great state of North Carolina and our great nation as a whole.

And I want to spend more time, increasingly, with my grandchildren.

- [Nido] There you go.

Now, now you're telling the real truth there about that.

Naming one, one hero model, mentor of yours and a lesson you learned from him.

- Probably the most significant hero in my life was my high school coach, second to my father.

- You were a football player?

- [Harold] I was a basketball player - That, basketball player, okay.

- Who was also an A&T graduate, who took particular interest in me as a middle schooler and in a similar way as a father, mentored and engaged and pushed me to be the very best I could be, - To believe in yourself?

- To believe in myself.

Never compromising on standards and performance, but also viewed the importance of treating people right.

And so I have always highly regarded his contributions and significant transformation in my life.

- You know, Harold, you've had a rich, rich life across North Carolina in the UNC system clearly, and now at A&T, but I can tell you my friend, that people who know you and know you well, describe you as this terrific steward who cares deeply about relationships, who honors other people, who respects varying points of view.

And in the end, you're, you're a peacekeeper.

You're a lot better than me about that.

You listen, you process and you bring people together in a very healthy way.

And for that, I just want you to know, I honor you.

Thank you so much for being with us on Side-By-Side.

And I hope that we will get to talk about these things and more next time we get together.

Thank you, sir.

- Thank you.

- [Announcer] Funding for Side By Side with Nido Quebein is made possible by - [Announcer] Here's to those that rise and shine.

To friendly faces doing more than their part.

And to those who still enjoy the little things.

You make it feel like home.

Ashley HomeStore.

This is home.

- [Announcer] The Budd Group is a company of everyday leaders making a difference by providing facility solutions through customized janitorial landscape an d maintenance services.

- [Announcer] Coca Cola consolidated is honored to make and serve 300 brands and flavors locally.

Thanks to our teammates.

We are Coca-Cola consolidated.

Your local bottler.

[upbeat music fades]