This week on To the Contrary.

First: Vice President Kamala Harris steps into the spotlight.

Why now?

Then, women and alcohol.

A disturbing trend in public health.

Intro Music Hello, I'm Bonnie Erbé.

VP Kamala Harris's visibility is rising.

Vice President Kamala Harris is back after lowering her national visibility for most of Joe Biden's term in office.

Reports say she was frustrated while being hidden away.

But now Biden and Harris aides are on the same page.

They want her to speak out more to counter what many see as a Republican extremism on a wide variety of issues.

Biden aides think Harris will connect with black voters, women and young people.

A new poll shows there is more enthusiasm for Harris herself than for Biden.

But her approval ratings with voters in general remain similar to President Biden's.

Joining us this week are Donna Edwards, former Democratic representative from Maryland.

Linda Chavez, chair of the center for Equal Opportunity.

Deborah Carnahan, former judge and federal prosecutor.

And Tiana Lowe Doescher, commentary writer for The Washington Examiner.

Throughout American history, probably, but certainly back to the 20th century, vice presidents jobs were to sit there and be a heartbeat away, literally, and presidents didn't let them do very much else.

Robert Cato wrote about this in his four or five book series on LBJ, who was miserable before Kennedy was assassinated.

Not that Johnson wanted that, but he was miserable.

Standing back and shutting up.

So has the Biden administration been treating Kamala Harris any differently?

And could that be if you think he is, could that be on account of race and or gender?

I don't think so.

I mean, I think all along the president has said consistently that Kamala Harris is a help for him, that he she advises him and now with the campaign and sees and I think she's coming into her zone she's very effective with black voters, young voters with women.

And the issues that are being raised right now actually play to her strength.

And so I think you're going to see her both being aggressive in terms of going at Republicans, which is a help to Biden, but also articulating a message for those hard to turn out groups that Democrats really need for this election cycle.

Well, I think she is effective on the abortion issue, and I think that is a huge issue with Democratic voters, but also with suburban Republican women.

And so I think his use of her on that issue has been effective.

I think she's also going to go hard on race issues.

And certainly we've seen it with respect to the controversial new study plan in Florida for teaching about the African-American experience and in particular, very unfortunate language in that study guide on slavery.

So I think she'll be effective.

I still don't think she has ever measured up to what some of us hoped for when we first saw her on the campaign field.

But look, I think she's doing the job she has to do.

Yeah, I think I agree with Linda and I agree with Donna, and I think that she is very effective for the abortion issue and on the issue of race.

And it is campaign season now right in full swing.

So I just saw my first Trump commercial on the TV.

So I think you're going to see a lot more of her and they're going to use her a lot more.

And I think that's normal.

So, Bonnie, you're obviously right that historically speaking, the VP office has not been incredibly high profile, but we've come off of a slate of incredibly effective and crucial vice presidents.

What do you think of Dick Cheney during the war on terror?

Joe Biden served as a great conduit between the White House and Congress because he obviously was a creature of the Senate, whereas Obama was really only there for two years.

Mike Pence was crucial, not just as a congressional leaders on, but also as we saw, preserving democracy during January 6th.

Kamala Harris doesn't have a great purpose outside of campaigning, which is why now that that presidential election is getting geared up again, she will be much more visible.

Look, Joe Biden doesn't need a conduit to Congress.

He already has those built in relationships.

And unfortunately for her, she hasn't been able to physically leave D.C. because she has because she cannot in order to cast those tie breaking vote, she's already on pace to become one of the most tiebreaking vice presidents in history in the Senate.

Right.

Unfortunately, Kamala is not the sort of candidate that does great in viral moments She is a little bit gaffe prone.

Getting her back on the campaign stage, getting her back on rallies face to face with voters is probably going to be a much bigger boost to her issue than just doing the D.C.

Circuit of of interviews and in speeches in front of just the donor class.

Does anybody think that she will be an asset when it comes to not just the African-American vote because she's half African-American and half Asian-American, but also drawing in Asian Americans who are growing quickly?

I believe there that there's still a small percentage of the U.S. population, about 7%, but they're growing by just about the highest rate of any minority in this country.

Well, I think that that is I do think that's true, Bonnie.

But keep in mind, Kamala Harris has multiple constituencies that she really appeals to.

I saw her, for example, with young people on the climate issue, with women, on abortion, with African-Americans, on race and the economy.

And so she can serve multiple purposes and I think appeal to a broader range of the electorate than she often gets credit for.

But I did hear it said quite frequently that a lot of them, even Democrats, while they liked her a lot, didn't think she was quite ready.

This was right after he was elected, didn't think that she was quite ready for prime time because had only been in the Senate for a while and she for a short while when she was selected as his running mate.

And before that, she had statewide office.

They said the same thing about Barack Obama, too.

Except Kamala Harris came in with the lowest approval ratings that NBC has ever tracked for its vice president, including after Dick Cheney shot someone in the face, including Mike Pence, during the height of the COVID pandemic.

Right.

So she is someone who is she is not getting Barack Obama polling numbers.

And I think we can all recognize that Barack Obama is very much a once in a generation talent.

Look, I think instead of leaning into the identity politics.

Kamala Harris should be coming out talking about the economy.

Don't you think Biden is reserving that topic for himself, as would just about any president in this situation?

Or should they both be out there talking and maybe perchance somebody slightly veers off the path that they've been told to stay on?

And then you have the candidates disagreeing.

Bonnie but it has happened in the past.

Bonnie, I think it's important to recognize that the reason that Kamala Harris did not poll well during the early years is that she has never really demonstrated her ability to take a substantive issue of policy and articulate it and sell it to the American people.

I mean, she had she was given a tough job.

She was given the border, for example, is in her wheelhouse, but she really didn't do great on that.

So I think she's got a challenge and I think most.

May not have done great on that.

Linda, I agree with you.

However, that is, you know, it's kind of like resolving the Middle East crisis.

It's been going on for thousands of years, Or at least in the case of the border, hundreds of years.

It involves so many different countries with different economies and different agendas.

The leaders with different agendas.

It's just impossible to sort out.

What we're missing in this entire conversation, though, is the impact of gender and race politics on the way that Kamala Harris has been attacked on the challenges that she has faced in the job.

And I think that this campaign season actually allows her to play a role that is both helpful to her but also helpful to Democrats.

Democrats are going to have a turnout problem if they can't get out their core base, if they can't get out women voters, if they can't get out black voters.

And so Kamala Harris is playing the exact role that she needs to in this election cycle.

Donna, viewers advising her and that our audience should know, you have been a substitute spokesperson for the Biden campaign and many other Democratic presidential campaigns.

But if what would you tell her?

How does she get over this rap?

Fair or not, race based or not gender based or not, that she is not seen as somebody a lot of voters would want to trust with the reins on the country.

If Joe Biden doesn't make it another four years?

Well, look, I think if Joe Biden didn't believe that Kamala Harris had the right stuff, that you would not see this administration in the White House putting her front and center on some of the most difficult issues that there that there are.

And I think that in this election cycle, I mean, what I would tell her is do your job in terms of getting us to getting Democrats to a second administration.

And really, we've seen that she's actually grown in the job, which I think is what vice presidents are supposed to do.

And I think it's going to put her in a good position in 2028.

You know, the abortion issue polls very, very high.

That Americans are very concerned about it and unhappy with it.

Gun violence also polls very high.

She has a lot of chops on that topic, having been attorney general of California.

And actually somebody said that she hadn't proven herself on some issues, she sure as heck proved herself, made some, you know, people not like her that much in California for being really tough on criminal sentencing.

And the biggest turn out for Democrats is going to be that Donald Trump is likely to be the nominee of the Republican.

That's going to push Democrats, independents and people like me who used to be Republicans to the polls.

Do you think that she will be successful rallying, particularly women and particularly, as you said, Linda, of suburban Republican women to vote Democratic?

She can be effective on the issues that she's comfortable with that she has passion about.

You know, when I said earlier, she didn't sort of show her policy chops.

In part, it's because she's really good when she's speaking and she has deep seated feelings, passion on the subject.

That's why she's so good on race.

That's why she's so good on abortion.

I don't see her going out and giving an economic speech that's going to sway anyone.

But I think using her where she really feels comfortable is the best use of her.

And I don't think you want to put her in a situation where she's uncomfortable because I think that's going to end up backfiring.

Tiana, do you think the current Republican Party, which a whole lot of people say is extremely conservative, not just will take the bait and somehow make race tinged or gender tinged, say that they will say things that will reveal like, you know, Donald Trump saying something about her being African-American or anything about her being a woman.

Do you think that that could happen in this campaign?

Look, Bonnie, I will actually challenge you.

And I'm saying this as someone who has never voted for Donald Trump, doesn't support him in the primary.

Donald Trump is dominating the Republican primary.

He currently has a majority of the national vote share.

Obviously, it's on national election.

But the point is, he's still ahead in Iowa, still ahead in South Carolina, and he is significantly to the left of Ron DeSantis, who is in second place.

I would actually argue that Republicans are choosing in full force a much more moderate candidate.

Right.

People can't get past Trump's insane rhetoric and some of his own solipsism.

They can't see that on the issues.

Donald Trump is actually, you know, quite moderate on economics and on some social policies.

Donald Trump's also the only one who's saying, I'm not doing a national abortion ban.

That's never going to pass.

You know, there are a couple other candidates who have challenged whether or not we should have that debate.

Vivek Ramaswamy, Nikki Haley have challenged having a national abortion ban.

But Donald Trump has really differentiated himself from Mike Pence and Ron DeSantis very much stepping away from Not moderate do any of the rest of you buy that Trump is more moderate?

It's not.

It's not.

It's being phrased wrong.

Wrong.

I think, you know, some of us of my generation like to think of, you know, Republicans as conservative, Democrats as progressive or liberal.

That's no longer the dividing line.

Donald Trump is a populist and populism can be right wing populist populism or left wing populism.

The fact is, it's his populism.

It is his appeal to the masses that is in some ways non-ideological.

It's much more around cultural issues.

It's much more around issues where you can see some Democrats going over as they did.

We're going on to another topic.

You in the audience.

Please let us know what you think.

Follow us on social media.

At To the Contrary.

From presidential politics to a dangerous cultural shift for women and alcohol, a concerning trend has shown up, telling us alcohol related deaths in the U.S. are on the rise.

Predict usually among women 65 and older.

Historically, proportionately more men have died from alcohol related causes.

But the centers for Disease Control and Prevention now say the gender gap is narrowing from 2012 to 2020.

Alcohol related deaths among women 65 and older increased by just fewer than 7% per year, compared with just more than 5% for men in the same age range.

While the study doesn't pinpoint the reasons.

For years, researchers have been noting that women in many age groups are catching up with men when it comes to alcohol consumption.

Linda, I have noticed over the last 20 years this huge growth in the number of women who are getting together with girlfriends to go out for wine, joining wine clubs, drinking a lot of wine.

I'm just wondering if you think that this might be a factor in it.

Absolutely.

I mean, it's really a big change and I think you put your finger on it.

It's wine.

It's not necessarily going out for cocktails.

They aren't sipping Manhattans.

They're they're getting together and they're drinking wine.

It's become a kind of cultural phenomena, I think, particularly among middle and upper middle class women, professional women.

And, you know, I. I come from a family.

My father was an alcoholic.

It dramatically impacted my life.

It kept us in poverty.

It dramatically impacted my mother's life.

So alcohol has never had much appeal to me.

But even I have felt in recent years, you know, everything is you go to reception and there's wine pouring freely.

You go out to dinner, everybody orders wine.

You feel very left out.

You know, if you order a Diet Coke or seltzer water or something.

And so I think there's a lot of social pressure.

And it's also being felt by young people.

I mean, I see it now among my grandchildren they are much more likely to drink than my generation was.

One of my favorite cable channels is Turner Classic Movies.

I love the old black and whites from the twenties, thirties, forties, and they don't run commercials from outside sponsors.

They run commercials for their own clubs and such that they have.

And one of those is a wine club and they show people on.

They also do trips on ships that you can join and go see, you know, meet a couple of movie stars and and it's everybody's always got and they produce their own brands of wine so that everybody's always got a wine glass in their hand is this kind of thing that wouldn't probably appeal much to younger women but to older women because especially in the 65 plus, a wine wasn't something women were drinking all the time.

20, 30 years ago in that age group.

Yeah.

You know, it's interesting because I think if you think about the last couple of decades of television, increasingly you see women in television drinking wine.

I'm thinking about shows like Scandal, where the big jumbo glass of wine was kind of part of the theme, or Sex and the City, where you get together for cosmopolitans.

There are a whole range of so there's social cultural programing that is really encouraging.

This idea of getting together around wine, around alcohol.

So it's not surprising.

Also, I think that the whole norm of women, independent women who are able to make their own decisions, deciding that they want to drink.

And so it doesn't surprise me that those numbers are coming closer.

But I do think it is disturbing.

And I have to admit, I mean, I'm part of that sort of class of women who get together with other women and girlfriends and have a cocktail or a glass of wine.

And we've all been told, oh, there's nothing wrong with, you know, a glass of red wine.

In fact, it's really healthy.

I mean, there are all those messages that are coming through, I think, that have impacted women's decisions around alcohol.

Tiana, what's it going to get to get women your age and younger to stop thinking wine is cool and stop drinking?

Only about 10% of the adult population is consuming more than two alcoholic beverages per day.

So I would say the overwhelming majority of adults who are drinking are doing so in moderation.

Honestly, I'm not super concerned about those who are drinking as a social activity.

What is extremely concerning and we saw it spike up during the pandemic where people who were binge drinking regularly by themselves.

Right.

Which is a downward effect of a lot of greater social trends and atomized society, one where women and men are no longer a part of the church, they no longer are friends with their children's parents.

Everything is done online.

They'll meet their next sex partner on Tinder rather than, you know, at a bar or at a party.

So is some of the mommy wine culture a little bit cringe?

Yeah.

But if you are drinking in moderation, that is not the issue.

we have.

I mean, you have a very different or what you quoted a very different idea of moderation.

Two drinks a day?

Mind you.

That's for men and women, right?

So obviously that number is skewed higher because men can drink more.

The CDC has them a greater allowance.

But my point is, the people we would categorize in problematic drinking is somewhere between only 20 to 10% of the adult population.

My point is the vast swathes of Americans are not engaging in daily binge drinking or even occasional binge drinking.

But the problem is that 20% to 10% is wreaking devastation.

There's a reason why deaths of despair are becoming the most significant cause of death for young people.

A part of that is alcohol abuse.

We have seen upticks in liver cirrhosis that also has something to do with our sugar consumption when you're dealing with much younger folks because sugar consumption can cause fatty liver syndrome.

But it's it's it is a real problem.

We're seeing it with drugs.

We're seeing it with alcohol.

We're seeing it with suicidality.

And we're also seeing it with things like reckless driving that these are all trends that were already on the uptick before COVID, but then during COVID just exploded.

We're seeing the same boomers, that you know did free love that really mainstreamed marijuana, are now not only engaging in alcohol in excess But also prescription drug abuse a big issue in nursing homes increasingly as boomers are entering them, so it is a huge problem and I'm not saying that it isn't I'm just saying vast (inaudible) population and It looks like Gen Z is really curbing this trend away from problematic alcohol consumption.

I find it interesting that just in the last couple of years, a whole lot of states have legalized recreational marijuana.

So maybe when that gets more widely circulated into the adult population, Debra, do you think people will switch or at least switch back and forth marijuana one night because that's not great for your lungs.

Obviously, you're sitting at home smoking marijuana all day long, but if you just take a couple of puffs of it.

Yeah, I actually do think it is a way to tackle it.

And there, you know, goommies out there, gummies, whatever you call them, you know, that you can chew edibles.

They have drinks now.

So another way to relax and kind of, as I like to say, take a chill pill and not have to use alcohol for that relaxing effect.

How about a little transcendental meditation or maybe go for a walk?

Yoga.

-The idea that we have to substances to make us feel relaxed.

You know, I don't think there's any substance, and I sure would not say that cannabis is the solution.

It affects the brain and there are lots and lots of problems.

Well, thank you very much for that point, Linda.

You're spot on.

And it is too bad that people do need to use substances to get relaxed.

But there are all kinds of stories all over the media these days about how uptight we are as a people, how nervous, how, much anxiety we suffer from lives get busier and busier.

And there's, you know, almost more to do for yourself personally.

Doctors registering cars, you know, you name it than you can do and hold on to a full time job.

So that's why I think Americans are feeling this cultural malaise and the substances are what are helping people deal with this situation.

And it is sad.

And we need experts to figure out a way out of it.

That's it for this edition.

Please keep the conversation going on our host of social media platforms.

Reach out to us at to the contrary.

And visit our website.

And whether you agree or think To the Contrary.

The address is on the screen.

And whether you agree or think To the Contrary.

And whether you agree or think To the Contrary.

See you next week.

( Music ) Funding for To the Contrary provided by the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation the Park Foundation and the Charles A. Frueauff Foundation.