- We're now joined by Harry Lee, President and CEO of the New Jersey Public Charter School Association.

Harry, good to see you.

- Great to be here, Steve, thank you for having me.

- You got it, the website is up.

Let's clarify.

There are 86 New Jersey charter schools?

- Yes, there are 86 public charter schools in the state of New Jersey serving 63,000 students.

- That's 4% of New Jersey's public school students, correct?

- That is correct, but in our former Abbott SDA district, Schools Development Authority districts, we are about one in five students in our urban communities.

- Okay, let's do this.

Check out our interview with Senator Vin Gopal, the Chair of the Senate Education Committee, because we talked to the senator about a lot of things regarding charter schools and other educational issues.

But one of them was this report on NJ.com, Advance Media NJ.com.

We talked about a charter school, abuse in this charter school, exorbitant payment to those running the charter school, that those charter schools were run by people who do not live in New Jersey while teachers and administrators in public schools, which charter schools are, have to live in New Jersey.

It's a long-winded way of getting to this.

There are hearings being held as we do this program, we'll talk about them after, that look into charter schools and whether those are the aberrations, the norm, what?

You say, what, Harry Lee?

- Obviously the stories that have been out there on NJ.com are concerning, but they're absolute outliers.

The vast majority of our 86 charter schools are doing the right things by kids and families.

And while the issues that have been raised are small in number, we know that we do need meaningful reforms for some of these issues that, one, put guardrails on these bad actors, but also preserve the autonomy of our schools.

And charter schools are public schools.

These are public funds and they must be spent responsibly and fairly.

And so we plan to address these issues directly.

We've been working with Senator Gopal and a number of other lawmakers on common sense reforms.

And so, from a policies perspective, we need to make sure that salaries are in line with the market, number one.

We need to make sure that in terms of governance, that our charter boards have the proper training, as well as they're properly vetted and they don't live outside of the state of New Jersey.

And third is really around transparency, making sure that charter school budgets are transparent and that there are salaries that everyone knows about.

And so we expect a cooperative effort and are working with Senator Gopal and others to make sure that we take a surgical approach to these solutions.

- All right, lemme ask you something.

How does something like that happen?

In the charter school that's featured in this report in NJ.com, a married couple reportedly earning combined over $600,000 while living in Florida, as I talked about.

You're supposed to live in New Jersey.

- Yeah.

- These hearings are being held.

We'll talk to the senator after that.

But my question is, how the heck does that happen?

I mean, do you regulate yourselves?

- No, I, and I do not see this- - Or that's Department of Education's role?

- That is the Department of Education's role.

And I do not see this as a charter school failure.

I see this as part of human failure, that you had individuals who are not doing the right thing.

Those have since been reported and those schools must be held to account.

And so we have been talking to the Department of Education on these issues that have been highlighted, and we expect them to investigate and take appropriate action.

- Okay, so the Trump administration takes office, all kinds of talk about the Federal Department of Education, gonna get rid of it, gonna downsize it and cut back funds to state and local school districts.

What, if anything, do you believe the potential impact of any of this would have on the charter school movement in the state of New Jersey?

The public charter school movement.

- This, if this election taught us anything, it is that we have to listen to the voices of our working class families, especially our Latino and black families.

And so we hope that the Secretary of Education, Linda McMahon, listens to those voices, especially when it comes to public charter schools, especially when it comes to making sure that resources go to under-resourced communities and our educationally disadvantaged children.

And so there are a lot of rumors going around about what may happen.

I don't wanna speculate.

It's a wait and see, but I will say from our perspective, we will work with everyone who wants to ensure that there are positive impacts for students and families, especially those who are economically disadvantaged and in our urban communities.

- By the way, I wanna make it clear as we're doing this program, Linda McMahon has not been confirmed by the Senate.

She's expected to be the Secretary of Education on the Federal.

Let me ask you this.

As it relates to urban public charter schools, what are two or three keys, Urban Education that Works that makes those schools work well, please, Harry?

- Absolutely.

And primarily in New Jersey, charter schools serve urban communities.

We have 63,000 students.

44% of public charter school students are black.

41% are Latino.

70% come from economically disadvantaged backgrounds and 10% receive special education services.

And last week, the New Jersey Department of Education put out their 2024 state assessment results.

And students of color in public charter schools are knocking it out of the park and so- - Define knocking it out of the park.

- Absolutely.

Black, Latino, and economically disadvantaged students are outperforming their statewide counterparts in every grade and subject.

And I have to brag about Newark, whenever we talk about charter schools.

We have 20,000 public charter school students in Newark.

80% come from low income households.

For the second year in a row Newark Charter School students are outperforming the state average in reading.

So I want us to take a step back and think about that.

We have what is widely regarded as the number one public education system in the country.

Newark Charter students are outperforming the state average in reading for multiple years in a row.

And these simply put, these are some of the best public schools ever created.

And we have to support those schools, celebrate the schools, and share best practices.

- I've said this before, my dad started the first charter school, my late dad started the first charter school in the, I believe, in the state of New Jersey, the Robert Treat Academy that I know very well and continues to do important work.

So lemme just share that.

Go on our website, you can find out more.

Harry Lee, President and CEO of the New Jersey Public Charter School Association.

Harry, good to see you.

We'll have you on after Senator Gopal's Education Committee hearings to try to make sense of what has taken place and what needs to be done moving forward.

Thank you, Harry.

- Thank you Steve, appreciate it.

- You got it.

Stay with us, we'll be right back.

- [Narrator] Think Tank with Steve Adubato is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Celebrating 30 years in public broadcasting.

Funding has been provided by New Jersey Children’s Foundation.

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And by The Adler Aphasia Center.

Promotional support provided by Meadowlands Media.

And by New Jersey Globe.

- At the New Jersey Children's Foundation, we believe all children should have access to a high quality public education regardless of where they live.

We believe schools should place students on paths to success, and we invest in schools and educators who are meeting those needs.

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