FAILING GRADES-- TRUMP TAKES ON HARVARD, AND HIGHER ED.

POOR CREDIT-THE U.S. GETS A DOWNGRADE AS THE HOUSE VOTES FOR MORE DEBT.

AND POLICING THE POLICE.

THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE PULLS BACK FROM COURT-ENFORCED REFORM.

STAY TUNED FOR IVORY TOWER, NEXT.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

I'M JOINED THIS WEEK BY NINA MOORE FROM COLGATE UNIVERSITY, RICK FENNER FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY, ANIRBAN ACHARYA FROM LEMOYNE COLLEGE, AND LISA DOLAK FROM THE COLLEGE OF LAW AT SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY.

PRESIDENT TRUMP IS BRINGING THE HAMMER DOWN ON HARVARD UNIVERSITY.

HE'S DEMANDING CHANGES TO ITS CURRICULUM, HIRING AND ADMISSION PRACTICES.

HE'S CUTTING BILLIONS IN FEDERAL RESEARCH GRANTS AND REVOKING HARVARD'S ABILITY TO ADMIT INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS.

IT'S ALL IN THE NAME OF CURBING WHAT HE SAYS IS RAMPANT ANTI-SEMITISM AT HARVARD.

LISA, IS TRUMP TRYING TO ACTUALLY DESTROY HARVARD AS IT EXISTS TODAY?

>> LOOK, I THINK THIS IS LIKE SO MANY THINGS HE DOES.

IT'S ABOUT OWNING THE LIBS.

IT'S ABOUT APPEALING TO HIS BASE, WHO THIS IS THE KIND OF THING HIS BASE LOVES.

AND I THINK THAT'S HOW IT STARTED, WAS SORT OF MAKING AN EXAMPLE OF A, YOU KNOW, AN INSTITUTION KNOWN FOR-- WELL FIRST OF ALL, AN ELITE, THE MOST ELITE INSTITUTION, AND ONE THAT, YOU KNOW, HAS BECOME KNOWN, UNFORTUNATELY, FOR IT FOR ITS LIBERAL SLANT ON MANY THINGS.

AND, BUT IT NOW SEEMS TO BE ABOUT DIGGING IN AND PUNISHING HARVARD EVEN MORE FOR FIGHTING BACK, RIGHT?

BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY'VE DONE.

AND SADLY HARVARD HAS MADE ITSELF, OVER MANY YEARS, AN EASY TARGET.

AND TO THE EXTENT I ALREADY THOUGHT THAT, IT WAS DRIVEN HOME BY A WONDERFUL OP-ED IN THE SUNDAY NEW YORK TIMES THIS WEEKEND BY A PSYCHOLOGY PROFESSOR THERE NAMED STEVEN PINKER AND WE'VE DISCUSSED THIS AMONG OURSELVES AT THE TABLE BUT FOR ANYONE OUT THERE WHO HASN'T READ IT, I COMMEND IT TO YOU.

IT IS A DEFENSE OF HARVARD, AND A VERY GOOD AND CORRECT ARGUMENT THAT WHAT TRUMP IS DOING IS OUTRAGEOUS AND WRONG IN MANY WAYS.

BUT IT ALSO GOES A LONG WAY TO CATALOGING THE SINS THAT HARVARD HAS COMMITTED ALONG THE WAY.

AND MANY OTHER INSTITUTIONS, RIGHT?

PROMOTING DIVERSITY TO THE POINT WHERE IT BECOMES CALCIFIED INTO RIGID TESTS FOR HIRING, FOR WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE RESEARCH AND WHAT IS NOT, FOR SUPPRESSING ALTERNATIVE VIEWPOINTS, FOR LIMITING ACADEMIC FREEDOM, YOU KNOW, AND THIS PLAYS OUT IN THE FORM OF VASTLY DISPROPORTIONATE NUMBERS OF LIBERAL FACULTY AND SO NATURALLY STUDENTS ARE JUST NOT EXPOSED TO ALTERNATIVE VIEWPOINTS.

AND ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF HYPOCRISY HERE, AND I SAY THAT IS HYPOCRISY BECAUSE THE FUNDAMENTAL MISSION IS TO ENCOURAGE CRITICAL THINKING AMONG STUDENTS AND EXPOSE THEM TO DIFFERENT IDEAS.

BUT ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF HYPOCRISY IS CLINGING TO LEGACY ADMISSIONS WHILE CLAIMING TO BE ALL ABOUT FAIRNESS AND, YOU KNOW, IN THE FORM OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION.

>> HE SAYS IT SHOULD BE MERITOCRACY AND LISA IS SAYING THAT HARVARD SHAHS SHOWN THAT IT IS NOT.

DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT?

>> I DON'T THINK ANY OF OUR UNIVERSITIES OR OUR COUNTRY AS A WHOLE IS MERITOCRACY.

THINK ABOUT THE FACT THAT TRUMP WANTS TO GET RID OF MERIT BASED HIRING IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SO HE CAN APPOINT LOYAL APPOINTEES, BUT I'M NOT SURE THAT I DISAGREE WITH LISA BUT WHAT I WILL SAY IS THIS: I THINK THIS BATTLE IS SO MUCH BIGGER THAN HARVARD.

I THINK THIS IS A BATTLE OVER THE POLITICAL NARRATIVE IN THIS COUNTRY.

OVER WHO GETS TO DECIDE WHAT IS AND ISN'T FACT AND WHAT IS AMERICAN VERS UNAMERICAN AND I'LL GO BACK TO SOME OF THE THINGS THAT LISTA TALKED ABOUT AND IT'S HARVARD.

HARVARD AND THE OTHER IVY LEAGUES THAT HAVE PRETTY MUCH CONTROLLED THAT QUESTION, THOSE KINDS OF QUESTIONS, BASICALLY HAVING THE FINAL DAY OVER THESE THINGS: WHETHER EVOLUTION OR CREATION ITCH IS THE TRUTH-- CREASATIONISM IS THE TRUTH.

WHETHER LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION OR VIABILITY.

WHETHER CLIMATE CHANGE IS HUMAN CAUSED OR A NATURAL PHENOMENON.

AND FINALLY WHETHER GENDER IS BIOLOGICAL OR IF IT'S A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT.

SO I THINK TRUMP AND MAGA BASE HAVE BECOME FRUSTRATED WITH BOTH THE ANSWERS TO THESE QUESTIONS, BUT ALSO THE PROCESSES BY WHICH THE ANSWERS HAVE BEEN ARRIVED AT TO THE EXCLUSION OF THAT BASE AND SET FOR THE MOST PART, BY A VERY TINY TOP 10% IN THE COUNTRY THAT INCLUDES ACADEMICIANS.

>> I THINK HE CLEARLY IS TRYING TO DESTROY HARVARD, AND AGAIN YOU DON'T HAVE TO TAKE MY WORD FOR IT.

STEVEN PINKER PIECE, PINKER HAS BEEN A HUGE CRITIC OF HARVARD FROM WITHIN, BUT THE ISSUE-- I THINK WE'VE GOTTEN TO THIS PLACE BECAUSE TRUMP IS UPSET THAT HARVARD IS NOT BEING COLUMBIA.

TRUMP WENT AFTER COLUMBIA AND COLUMBIA GAVE IN AND THEN COLUMBIA FOUND OUT THAT IT WASN'T GETTING ITS GRANTS BACK AND SO WE GOT DOWN THIS SLIPPERY SLOPE AND HARVARD HAS DECIDED NOT NOT GOING TO GIVE IN AS EASILY AND EVERYBODY IS DOUBLING DOWN.

THAT'S WHAT TRUMP IS DOING.

THAT'S WHY HE HAS GONE EVERYTHING FROM THE GRANTS TO, YOU KNOW, NOT ALLOWING THEM TO HAVE INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS TO SAYING I'M GOING GET RID OF YOUR TAX EXEMPT STATUS.

IF YOU ARE GOING TO GET RID OF THEIR TAX EXEMPT STATUS, THAT CALLS INTO PLAY EVERY INSTITUTION OF HIGHER EDUCATION 'S TAX EXEMPT STATUS.

SO I REALLY DO BELIEVE IT'S HARD TO SEE HOW HE IS NO THE TRYING TO DESTROY THEM.

>> IF THREE QUARTERS OF THE PROFESSORS AT HARVARD IDENTIFY THEMSELVES AS EITHER LIBERAL OR VERY LIBERAL, CAN SOME PRESSURE LIKE THIS WORK TO DIVERSIFY THE VIEWPOINTS.

>> THE PROBLEM IS THAT WE ARE ASKING DIFFERENT QUESTIONS HERE, RIGHT?

AS MOST POLITICAL OBSERVERS AND POLITICAL SCIENTISTS, WE POINT OUT WITH THAT, THIS IS A VERY, VERY SIMPLE THING OF LABEL OF DICTATORS, WANT TO BE DICTATORS TO BASICALLY DESTROY CIVIL SOCIETY IN THE SENSE THAT I WILL GO AFTER UNIVERSITIES AND SHAPE THE UNIVERSITIES BASED ON MY OWN IDEOLOGICAL AND PART PARTISAN MOTIVATIONS.

THAT HAS BEEN CRUCIAL IN THIS CASE.

IT IS NOT VERY MUCH DIFFERENT.

WHAT I WOULD SAY THOUGH, WE SHOULD NOT CONFLATE FREE SPEECH WITH ACADEMIC FREEDOM.

ACADEMIC FREEDOM IS NOT THE COMMENT SECTIONS OF FOX AND FRIENDS.

ACADEMIC FREEDOM IS WHERE YOU DISCRIMINATE AGAINST BAD IDEAS, YOU HOLD PEOPLE TO CERTAIN RIGOROUS STANDARDS OF RESEARCH, RIGOROUS STANDARDS OF METHODS AND YOU DON'T EMPLOY CERTAIN PEOPLE, RIGHT?

ACADEMIC FREEDOM WORKS IN A CERTAIN KIND OF DISCRIMINATORY WAY.

NOT ALLOWING EVERYONE.

NOW, IF YOU WANT TO SAY THAT OH WE WANT TO HIRE SOMEONE WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE IN CLIMATE CHANGE, WHO GOES AGAINST ALL DATA AND ALL EVIDENCE AND WE FEED TO HIRE THEM.

NO, WE DON'T NEED TO HIRE THEM BECAUSE IT IS GOING AGAINST A CERTAIN ASPECT OF RESEARCH THAT IS HELD TO BE.

NOW HAS THAT BEEN A PROBLEM BEFORE.

YES, EUGENICS SEEMS TO BE A SCIENCE AND PRRENOLOGY SEEMS TO BE A SCIENCE AND LATER ON IT WAS DEBUNKED.

ACADEMIA DOES NOT WORK AS A FREE SPEECH CLUB, RIGHT THAT YOU CAN GO OPEN A CLUB.

ANOTHER PROBLEM IS THIS CONSERVATIVES WANT DEI WHEN IT SUITS THEM, RIGHT?

THEY NOW WANT ALL DIVERSITY AND ALL, BUT ALSO SOCIOLOGICAL STUDIES SHOW AS YOU BECOME MORE AND MORE EDUCATED, YOU BECOME LESS CONSERVATIVE EXCEPT FOR ECONOMISTS BUT THAT'S A DIFFERENT THING.

>> YOU ARE CHOCHING AT THE BIT.

>> NOT TO BEAT A DEAD HORSES, BUT I THINK IT'S A MISTAKE TO SEE THIS AS SIMPLY ABOUT HARVARD OR, FOR THAT MATTER,ACADEME BECAUSE IT'S THE SAME PLAYBOOK WE ARE SEEING APPLIED TO THE MEDIA, 50% OF AMERICANS STILL RELY ON THE MEDIA AS A MAIN SOURCE OF NEWS AND INFORMATION.

IT'S THE SAME THING THAT APPLIES TO HIGH SCHOOLS AND THE PUSH FOR SCHOOL CHOICE AND VOUCHERS, THE SAME THING THAT APPLIES TO ELIMINATING TEXTBOOKS IN CERTAIN ELEMENTARY SETTINGS AND THEN FINALLY, IN REGARD TO COURTS, THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS WAGED AND ASSAULT ON COURTS, WHICH ARE ALL ABOUT TRUTH FINDERS AND LAWYERS ARE PART OF THAT PROCESS.

SO IF YOU LOOK AT HOW THIS SAME SORT OF ENTERPRISE OF DECONSTRUCTING TRUTH AND WHO CONTROLS IT, PERHAPS TOWARDS THE ENDS THAT ANIRBAN MENTIONED, IT'S BEYOND ACADEME AND THAT'S WHAT I FIND MOST TROUBLING.

>> TWO THINGS I WANT TO GET IN HERE.

ONE IS THAT IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT HARVARD IS FIGHTING BACK BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, PART OF THIS IS TO TERRORIZE THE REST OF ACADEME AND GET THEM TO FALL IF LINE OUT OF FEAR THAT, YOU KNOW, THEIR INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS, THEY WILL BE DEPRIVED OF INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS WHICH, FOR MANY INSTITUTIONS, IS A SIGNIFICANT SOURCE OF TUITION REVENUE.

AND, YOU KNOW, OTHERWISE GET IN LINE.

THE SECOND THING ABOUT THIS THOUGH THAT OF COURSE DRIVES ME CRAZY IS THAT TRUMP, WHO CLAIMS TO BE ALL ABOUT THE ECONOMY AND THE SO CALLED CONSERVATIVES NOW, CLAIM TO BE ALL ABOUT, YOU KNOW, FREEDOM AND GROWTH OF THE ECONOMY, RIGHT, THIS IS NOTHING BUT PURE ECONOMIC SELF-SABOTAGE.

CUTTING RESEARCH, SENDING THE BRIGHTEST FOREIGN STUDENTS, YOU KNOW, OUT OF THE COUNTRY, ALL THAT DOES IS HURT OUR ECONOMY IN THE LONG-TERM.

>> LET'S TURN TO THE ECONOMY.

THE UNITED STATES NO LONGER HAS TRIPLE-A CREDIT.

THE NATIONAL DEBT IS IN THE STRATOSPHERE.

BOND YIELDS ARE UP, TOO, AND THE DOLLAR IS DOWN.

THE ONE BIG BEAUTIFUL BILL THAT PACKS THE PRESIDENT'S ENTIRE AGENDA INTO SINGLE PIECE OF LEGISLATION HAS PASSED THE HOUSE.

IT WOULD ADD TRILLIONS TO THE NATIONAL DEBT.

THE SENATE NOW GETS ITS SHOT AND THE FISCAL HAWKS THERE SAY THEY NEED MAJOR CHANGES TO CUT SPENDING.

RICK, WHAT IS THE IMPACT OF THE BILL AND IF YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO ADVISE THE SENATE, WHAT WOULD YOU TELL SNEM.

>> FIRST, IT IS A BUDGET BUSTER.

RIGHTS-- IT'S GOING TO ADD UP TO $5 TRILLION TO THE DEBT OVER THE COMING 10 YEARS.

IT REDUCES REVENUE BY MAKING THE 2017 TAX BILL PERMANENT.

AND WHILE 94% OF AMERICANS GET A TAX BREAK UNDER THAT, ABOUT A QUARTER OF THAT GOES TO THE TOP 1%.

IT'S ALSO CALLING FOR POPULOUS MEASURES LIKE NO TAXES ON TIPS OR OVERTIME.

SOME OF THE CUTS, LIKE TO MEDICAID AND HEALTHCARE SUBSIDIES WILL KICK AS MANY AS 13 MILLION PEOPLE OFF OF HEALTH INSURANCE.

NOW WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT THE DEFICIT?

FIRST OF ALL, ANOTHER ISSUE TO SHOW HOW IMPORTANT THE DEFICIT IS, CURRENTLY WE ARE SPENDING ABOUT $880 BILLION ON INTEREST ON THE DEBT.

THAT'S MORE THAN WE SPEND ON THE MILITARY IN 2024.

MORE THAN WE SPENT ON MEDICAID, MORE THAN WE SPENT ON ALL NON-MANDATORY PROGRAMS OUTSIDE OF THE MILITARY.

SO THIS IS BECOMING A HUGE PART OF THE BUDGET.

I THINK WE ARE GOING TOE HAVE TO ADDRESS ISSUES SUCH AS SOCIAL SECURITY.

I HAVE SOME IDEAS THERE BUT I'LL LET MY PANELISTS CHIME IN BEFORE WE GET TO SOME SPECIFICS.

>> ARE WE WHISTLING PAST THE GRAVEYARD HERE.

A SUDDEN CRISIS LOOMING?

>> LOOK, I MEAN, IF YOU ARE LOOKING FROM A WORKING CLASS PERSPECTIVE IN THE UNITED STATES, THERE IS PLENTY TO BE ANGRY ABOUT WITH DEMOCRATS AND I SUPPORT THAT.

BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THIS BILL, THIS IS EXTREMELY-- IT WILL HURT THE WORKING CLASS A LOT.

RIGHT?

WE KNOW FROM RESEARCH THAT 70 MILLION LOW INCOME AND DISABLED AMERICANS, THEIR LIVES ARE SAFE BECAUSE OF MEDICAID AND MEDICARE.

NOW THESE WOULD BE CUT.

THERE WOULD BE THE TAX CUTS, 60% OF THE TAX CUTS WOULD GO TO THE TOP 20%, AS YOU POINT OUT MANY PEOPLE WOULD BE KICKED OUT OF MEDICAID.

THERE IS A WEIRD WORK REQUIREMENTS ALTHOUGH MOST MEDICAID RECIPIENTS ALREADY WORK, BUT THERE IS-- I WOULD SAY IT'S KIND OF THIS, YOU KNOW, A TOUR de FORCE OF CRUELTY.

I DON'T HAVE A BETTER WAY TO PUT IT GRATUITOUS CRUELTY.

I HOPE THE WORKING CLASS AMERICANS SEE THROUGH THIS.

AND AGAIN, I HOPE IN THE SENATE THEY ARE ABLE TO CUT, BUT, YES, WE ARE-- THE WHOLE IDEA WAS TO CUT ALL THESE DOGE CUTS AND YOU END UP ADDING $5 TRILLION TO THE BUDGET.

>> AND THE DOGE CUTS WERE TO OFFSET THE TAX CUT.

>> RON JOHNSON, THE ONLY CHANCE TO RESET TO A REASONABLE PRE-PANDEMIC LEVEL OF SPENDING IS RIGHT NOW WITH THIS BILL HE SAID.

RESOURCES TO PAY OUR BILLS.

WE JUST DON'T HAVE THE POLITICAL WILL.

AND THIS IS JUST A DOWNWARD SPIRAL BECAUSE THE REFUSAL TO MAKE THE KIND OF HARD CHOICES, NOT ON THE DISCRETIONARY BUDGET BUT ON MEDICARE, DEFENSE AND SOCIAL SECURITY, THE BIGGEST, YOU KNOW, DRIVERS OF THE DEBT, AND NOW INTEREST ON THE DEBT IS THE BIGGEST DRIVER OF THE DEBT, YOU THE BUT THE REFUSAL TO MAKE THE HARD CHOICES IS INGRAINED IN OUR SYSTEM BECAUSE THE HARD CHOICES, YOU KNOW, HURT THE CURRENT OFFICE HOLDER ONLY BENEFIT LATER OFFICE HOLDERS.

SO THE INCENTIVE WHEN YOU ARE IN OFFICE, WHETHER YOU ARE THE PRESIDENT OR CONGRESS, IS TO KICK THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD.

>> I AGREE THAT THOSE ARE THE HARD CHOICES THAT HAVE TO BE MADE MOST IMMEDIATELY.

RICK, YOU TOUCHED ON SOMETHING THAT I THINK IS REALLY KEY.

WHEN WE START TALKING ABOUT THIS, WE START IN THE WEEDS.

WE START TALKING ABOUT MEDICAID, DEFENSE SPENDING, HOMELAND SECURITY, BUT THE THRESHOLD QUESTIONS ARE WHERE ARE WE GOING TO GET MORE REVENUES FROM FIRST AND FOREMOST AND THE EXTENSION OF THE 2017 TAX CUT BILL WAS TREMENDOUSLY HURTFUL IN TERMS OF THE FEDERAL TREASURY, AND IT HURT THE FEDERAL TREASURY IN WAYS THAT BENEFITS THE MOST WELL TO DO BY REDUCING THE CORPORATE TAX RATE AND ALSO THE TAX RATE FOR EARNERS OR THOSE WHO EARN MORE THAN $400,000.

SO THE FOLKS WHO ARE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY FOR THAT WON'T BE CORPORATE AMERICA OR HIGH INCOME EARNERS.

BUT INSTEAD THE LESS WELL TO DO.

SO WE ARE IN THE WEEDS WITH THE MEDICAID ISSUE.

IF I DO JUST SAY ONE OTHER THING.

WE ARE HOPING THAT THE SENATE, WHICH IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE NATIONAL BODY, THE MORE DELIBERATIVE BODY THAT IS GOING TO FIX THIS.

IT WON'T BE THE SENATE.

IT'S GOING TO COME DOWN TO THREE PEOPLE IN THE SENATE.

AND THAT IS LISA MIRKOWSKI, SUSAN COLLINS AND JOSH HAWLEY, THE SAME AS WHAT HAPPENED IN 21 WHEN JOHN McCAIN GAVE HIS THUMB'S DOWN TO GETTING RID OF THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT.

>> SO PRESIDENT TRUMP IS A DISRUPTER AND ONE THOUGHT THAT I HAD AS HE TOOK OFFICE, MAYBE HE COULD BE THE GUY TO ACTUALLY DISRUPT THINGS ENOUGH TO MAKE SOME OF THOSE, YOU KNOW, HARD CALLS ON TAXES... >> ABSOLUTELY NOT.

BECAUSE NOW WE HAVEN'T EVEN TALKED ABOUT THE TARIFFS.

AND HOW INTERNATIONAL TRADE RIGHT NOW, WE RELY ON FOREIGNERS TO LEND A LOT OF THOSE DOLLARS THAT WE SEND OVERSEAS BACK TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO HELP SUBSIDIZE OUR DEBT.

NOW IF WE ARE GOING TO INCREASE THE DEBT MORE WHILE WE ARE SENDING FEW DOLLARS OVERSEAS, WHO IS GOING TO STAND UP AND PAY FOR THE EXCESS GOVERNMENT SPENDING?

THIS IS REALLY A LONG-TERM PROBLEM THAT COULD BE A TICKING TIME BOMB FOR OUR ECONOMY.

>> TO DAVE'S QUESTION ABOUT IF HE IS A DISRUPTER, WHAT IS SURPRISING TO ME IS ONE OF TRUMP'S PRIORITIES IS TO PRESERVE FUNDING FOR VETERANS AND ALSO TITLE I FUNDING, WHICH IS FOR LOW INCOME SCHOOLS.

>> THE 1994 CRIME BILL GAVE THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT THE AUTHORITY TO INVESTIGATE LOCAL POLICE AGENCIES FOR UNCONSTITUTIONAL POLICING.

UNDER COURT-ENFORCED "CONSENT DECREES," SOME POLICE DEPARTMENTS AGREED TO A REFORM PLANS.

LAST WEEK, THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE ANNOUNCED IT IS DROPPING CONSENT DECREES WITH THE MINNEAPOLIS AND LOUISVILLE POLICE AND ENDING INVESTIGATIONS OF SIX OTHER DEPARTMENTS.

IT CITED "FAULTY LEGAL THEORIES."

ARE CONSENT DECREES NEEDED TO REFORM DEPARTMENTS AND POLICING?

DO THEY WORK?

>> LET ME START WITH BASICALLY CONSTANT, IT IS LEGALLY BINDING WHERE A COMMUNITY ASKED FOR THIS HELP AND THE COURT SIGNS IT OFF AND THEY GET INTO AN AGREEMENT AS TO WHAT CHANGES COULD BE DONE.

NOW THE RESULT ON THIS ARE THE STATISTICS ON THIS ARE PATCHY.

SOMETIMES IT WORKS, SOMETIMES IT DOES NOT.

BUT THE IDEA IS TO LIKE CREATE VISIBILTY, RIGHT, FOR EXAMPLE, THE NEW YORK DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS MIGHT BE-- THERE WAS A THOUGHT THEY MIGHT HAVE TO BE IN THIS KIND OF CONSTANT DECREES , FOR LOUISVILLE AND SO ON.

EVEN AFTER REMOVING THESE CONSENT DEAGREES AFTER I WAS LISTENING TO THE POLICE OFFICERS FROM LOUISVILLE, THEY ARE SAYING THEY ARE GOING TO CONTINUE WITH THE REFORMS.

THEY'VE DONE THE REFORMS, IT HAS DONE BETTER FOR THE DEPARTMENT.

SO I DO THINK CONSENT DECREES WORK IN THE SHORT-TERM AND ASSUAGE PEOPLE'S FEARS, RIGHT, JUSTICE SHOULD LOOK LIKE JUSTICE.

SO IN THE LONG-TERM, WE DON'T KNOW THE RESULT... >> TO ME A FEDERAL CONSENT DECREE IS AN EVIDENCE OF FAILURE.

IT'S AN EVIDENCE OF FAILURE OF THE LOCAL WILL TO, YOU KNOW, SORT OF IMPROVE THINGS HERE AND I WOULD RATHER EVEN SEE STATE LEVEL, YOU KNOW, THE STATES CAN IMPOSE STATEWIDE REFORMS AND THAT HAS WORKED IN MANY STATES.

SOME OF THESE CONSENT DECREES, I MEAN SOME OF THEM HAVE BEEN GOING ON FOR MORE THAN 20 YEARS AND THEY ARE EXPENSIVE BECAUSE A MONITOR HAS TO BE APPOINTED.

THEY'VE GOT TO BE PAID.

THEY'VE GOT TO REPORT BACK.

TO ME, IT'S THE LEAST BEST SOLUTION.

>> SO MAYBE THERE IS A BETTER WAY.

>> THE INTERESTING THING HERE IS THAT THESE SORTS OF CONSENT DECREES STARTED IN THE 1960s, 1970s TO FORCE SOUTHERN STATES, WHERE MINORITIES HAD LITTLE POWER, TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT.

BUT NOW IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE MOST RECENT MAJOR CONSENT DECREES, THEY ARE IN BLUE CITIES, SO I THINK I WOULD AGREE WITH LISA THAT THOSE WHO LIVE IN THOSE CITIES SHOULD USE THEIR POWER AS VOTERS TO FORCE MANY OF THOSE BLUE CITIES AND BLUE STATES TO DEAL WITH THIS ISSUE.

>> MY PROBLEM REAL QUICKLY IS THAT THE INTENTION HERE, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER THESE CONSENT DECREES ARE WORKING OR NOT.

IT IS GOING BACK TO DENYING THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH POLICING IN THE FIRST PLACE.

>> AND WE SHOULD POINT OUT THAT THE MINNEAPOLIS AND LOUISVILLE CASES CAME AFTER THE POLICE KILLINGS OF BREONNA TAYLOR AND GEORGE FLOYD.

>> MOST OF THESE DO AND THE PROBLEM IS, ALL OF THIS UPROAR BUT THERE IS NO CLEAR SENSE OF WHAT TO DO AND HOW DO WE MEASURE PROGRESS.

>> SO D.O.J., THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE SAID THE CASES WERE IN ERROR BECAUSE THEY WRONGLY EQUATED STATISTICAL DISPARITIES WIN TENSIONAL DISCRIMINATION.

DOES IT MATTER IF IT WAS INTENTIONAL OR NOT IN THIS CASE.

>> LISA CAN SPEAK TO THIS BETTER.

SOMETIMES INTENT-- PATTERNS CAN SPEAK TO INTENT.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

BUT AGAIN I'M GOING STICK WITH MY POINT THAT IT'S THE LEAST BEST SOLUTION.

>> WE ARE GOING TO GO TO OUR AS AND FS AND ANYONA YOUR F. >> OVER THE PAST DECADE, THE CANCER RATE FOR WOMEN UNDER 50, THAT RATE WAS 51% HIGHER THAN MEN.

NOW IT'S 80% HIGHER THAN THE CANCER RATE FOR MEN.

BREAST CANCER CLAIMS 32% OF THE NEW CANCER CASES FOR WOMEN IN THE U.S. WITH LUNG CANCER AND COLON CANCER COMING IN SECOND AND THIRD.

IN ADDITION TO TALKING ABOUT WOMEN'S REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS, THE PAY GAP BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN, WHAT CONSTITUTES A WOMAN, WE SHOULD ALSO BE TALKING ABOUT THE CANCER RATE FOR WOMEN UNDER 50.

>> AND RICK, YOUR F. >> MY F GOES TO THE RAIN.

A SCREEN SHOT I MADE THIS MORNING, THURSDAY, MY PHONE WITH SYRACUSE IN ITS USUAL SPOT IN THE MIDDLE OF A GREEN DOT ON THE RADAR SCREEN, THE LAST WEEKEND WITHOUT REPORTED PRECIPITATION WAS IN NOVEMBER MORE THAN SIX MONTHS AGO AND IT APPEARS THE STREAK WILL NOT BE BROKEN THIS WEEKEND.

IT APPEARS THAT APRIL SHOWERS HAVE BROUGHT WELL, MAY SHOWERS.

PLEASE MOTHER NATURE, GIVE US A BREAK.

>> MAY FLOODS PERHAPS.

ANIRBAN, YOUR F. >> YOU KNOW, THE DEMOCRATS ARE CONTROLLING THE WEATHER.

ACADEMIC FREEDOM FOR YOU.

MY F GOES TO THE VICIOUS MURDER OF ISRAELI AMBASSADOR STAFFERS AND LOVERS.

THESE ATROCITIES HAVE NO PLACE IN THE WORLD OF JUSTICE AND SHARED HUMANITY.

THERE CANNOT BE ENOUGH CONDEMNATION FOR SUCH COWARD, CRUEL AND SENSELESS VIOLENCE.

>> YOUR F. >> MY F GOES TO PRESIDENT TRUMP FOR CONTINUING ABUSE OF THE PARDON POWER.

MASS PARDONING OF JANUARY 6 RIOTERS SENT A MESSAGE OF APPROVAL OF POLITICAL VIOLENCE IN HIS NAME.

RECENT PARDONS IN INCLUDING THOSE OF REALITY TV STARS TODD AND JULIE CHRISLY CONVICTED OF MULTIMILLION DOLLAR FRAUD AND TAX CHEAT PAUL WALDS WALCZAK AFTER HIS MOTHER ATTENDED A MILLION DOLLAR FUNDRAISER APPEAR TO BE ABOUT NOTHING MORE THAN FAVORING PERSONAL ALLIES.

I GOT TO GIVE CRED TO IT TRUMP'S PARDON ATTORNEY, ED MARTIN.

HE APTLY CALLED IT ON SOCIAL MEDIA, NO MAGA LEFT BEHIND.

>> THAT'S SOMETHING I THINK WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DISCUSS MORE FULLY ON THE PROGRAM.

LET'S GO TO THE AS AND ANYONA, YOUR-- NINA YOUR A.

>> I'LL GIVE CRED TO IT TRUMP.

MY A GOES TO HIM FOR HIS RECENT SIGNING OF AN EXECUTIVE ORDER THAT DISCOURAGES THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE FROM PROSECUTING PEOPLE WHO VIOLATE REGULATIONS THAT THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW EXIST.

IT'S A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION TO DEAL WITH THE TWIN PROBLEMS OF THE FEDERALIZATION OF CRIME AND OVERCRIMINALIZATION AT THE STATE LEVEL.

AS THE EXECUTIVE ORDER POINTS OUT, NO ONE EVEN KNOWS HOW MANY SEPARATE CRIMINAL OFFENSES ARE CONTAINED IN THE CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS.

ONE SOURCE ESTIMATES THERE ARE ONE 100 DREADS OF THOUSANDS OF SUCH JUVENILE CRIMINALS.

NO NORMAL HUMAN BEING, INCLUDING THOSE OF US AT THE TABLE, CAN KNOW THEM ALL.

>> RICK.

>> MY A GOES TO AAROUND THE TORN UNCEREMONIOUSLY IT CANCEL AFTER 23 GLORIOUS YEARS.

IT WAS ANOTHER SPORTS ROUNDTABLE DISCUSSION BUT IT WAS MORE SHOWCASING SOME OF THE BEST JOURNALISTS IN THE COUNTRY, INCLUDING BOTH SPORTS NEWS WRITERS DISCOVERING A GENERATION OF YOUNG SPORTS COMMENTATORS AND THE HOST IS THE HEART AND SOUL OF THE PROGRAM.

MY FAMILY ENJOYED WATCHING THE SHOW TGHT EACH WEEK DAY AT 5 FOR MUCH OF THE LAST 23 YEARS AND IT WILL BE SORELY MISSED.

>> MY A GOES TO ISRAELI POLITICIAN LEADER-THE-DEMOCRAT PARTY RESERVE MAJOR GENERAL IN THE ISRAELI DEFENSE FORCES FOR OPEN AND HONEST CRITICISM OF ATROCITIES AGAINST PALESTINIANS.

>> MY A GOES TO THE SCHOOL FOR ETHICS AND GLOBAL LEADERSHIP FOR ITS SEMESTER LONG RESIDENTIAL EXPERIENCE IN WASHINGTON D.C. FOR HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS FROM ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY.

THEY COME TO SPEND A SEMESTER.

FOCUSING ON AN INTENSIVE OPPORTUNITY TO PRACTICE MEANINGFUL CIVIL DISCOURSE, CRITICAL AND ETHICAL LEADERSHIP, NEEDED MORE NOW THAN EVER.

>> ONE FINAL NOTE ON SOMETHING THAT AFFECTS US ALL: RIGHT NOW, FEDERAL FUNDING FOR PUBLIC MEDIA FACES SIGNIFICANT CUTS, PUTTING TRUSTED, IN-DEPTH PROGRAMS LIKE IVORY TOWER AT RISK.

WE ARE ASKING FOR YOUR HELP TODAY TO PROTECT THESE ESSENTIAL SERVICES.

PLEASE CONSIDER SHOWING YOUR SUPPORT FOR IVORY TOWER -- WCNY'S LONGEST-RUNNING SHOW -- BY CONTRIBUTING AT WCNY.ORG/PROTECT THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

FOR COMMENTS YOU CAN WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO VIEW THE SHOW AGAIN YOU CAN VIEW IT ONLINE AT WCNY.ORG.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FOR ALL OF US AT IVORY TOWER, HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.