♪ opening music ♪ ♪ Gavin>> Welcome to This Week in South Carolina.

I'm Gavin Jackson.

In South Carolina law and order is a phrase that many leaders use while talking tough on crime, just not all crime.

Hate crimes, which are on the rise in the state are not specifically addressed in statute.

Despite our state's dark history, and recent tragedies centered around race and hate.

All crimes like assault and murder are on the books.

Crimes proven to be motivated specifically by hate involving a person's immutable characteristics, like race, gender, or religion, among others, do not receive a tougher sentence, since legislation enhancing penalties for offenders has never moved through the statehouse.

During this legislative session, the hate crimes bill was one of several social justice measures that received renewed attention following nationwide protests in 2020, but with three working days left in session, nearly all the measures meant to address inequality issues in the criminal justice system, as well as being tough on hate crimes are set to fail.

crowd chanting "Black Lives Matter" There was a roar for change that preceded the two year legislative session overall that started from the last breaths of George Floyd and Ahmaud Arbery.

A roar for change that flooded streets across the world, country and South Carolina in May 2020.

Thousands took to the Statehouse grounds in May 2020, and throughout the summer, demanding reforms to police tactics, civil asset forfeiture, sentencing reform for low level drug offenders, stronger accountability measures like fully funding police body cameras and more.

The push came after the horrific murder of George Floyd at the hands of Minneapolis Police.

George Floyd>> Please your knee in my neck... Minneapolis Police Officer Derek Chauvin knelt on Floyd's neck for eight minutes and 46 seconds, leading to his death.

All of it was filmed by Darnella Frazier in a video that shook a world locked down by the COVID pandemic, but it was the second most shocking video released in May 2020, involving an unarmed black man being murdered by a white man.

In February 2020 Ahmaud Arbery was gunned down, rather lynched in broad daylight went out for a jog in Brunswick, Georgia.

At the time, the shooting was merely a blip on the national nonstop news cycle, which was focused on the Democratic presidential primary at the time, and then later, the pandemic.

(gunshot) Gavin>> Arrests weren't made for two months, until a video filmed by the neighbor of the two men who murdered Arbery, surfaced in days later in early May.

Arrests for all three were finally made.

Arbery's horrific murder forced Georgia lawmakers to pass a law enhancing penalties for such crimes.

That law's passage leaves just Wyoming and South Carolina as the only two states without a Hate Crimes bill on the books.

As a result of the summer of 2020 protests, House leaders acted to fix that by creating the House Equitable Justice System and Law Enforcement Reform Committee.

Rep. Simrill>> ...If you look at the issues that we have faced in South Carolina over the last decade, under the leadership of Speaker Lucas, we have taken the approach to be inclusive and forthright in all of those issues.

This one is none different.

Gavin>> The committee held several meetings to evaluate current laws and craft legislation to reform things like civil asset forfeiture, aligning state guidelines with federal ones that President Donald Trump signed into law in 2018, that eliminated mandatory minimum sentences for drug offenders and reduced current sentences for those with no parole drug offenses.

Despite early momentum from in depth media reporting on the disturbing use of civil asset forfeiture by police departments around the state and the bipartisan passage of the Sentencing Reform bill by House members last April, both measures stalled.

>> This bill only deals with drug offenses.

This bill is in line with what our neighboring states do, and I know that some of y'all might have received a letter from our Attorney General, where, you know, we're going to have the weakest laws in the state or in the southeast.

Let me tell you something.

Alan Wilson has not talked to me one time about this bill, and at the 11th hour, he sends a letter trying to claim that we're trying to weaken our drug laws.

We're not.

We're doing the exact same thing that President Trump did when he was elected and reformed the federal drug laws, because our laws are antiquated and need to be reformed.

Gavin>> But the Hate Crimes bill has made it the farthest, despite opposition for years, including on the Republican gubernatorial debate stage, or in 2018, Governor Henry McMaster and other Republicans who unsuccessfully challenged him were vocally against the measure.

McMaster>> We have enough Hate Crime laws.

Those things are hard to define.

People forget that we have so many laws.

It's getting to where we are criminalizing things that are not even crimes.

I look at what's going on in the universities, for example, you can hardly express your own opinion, exercising the First Amendment without getting carried into some sort of court to be held accountable on some, some spacious sort of sensitivity that nobody really ever even understood years ago was being other than just expressing your own opinion.

We have laws on the books and I've helped get a lot of them on there for gangs, for domestic violence, for financial crimes.

I don't think we have a problem with our laws.

What we have is a problem is we need more economic strength and development in South Carolina.

Gavin>> Four years later, McMaster, a former US attorney and State Attorney General says his stance has not changed.

He's not alone, even though House Republicans heavily amended the Hate Crimes bill to remove any language that could potentially infringe on first amendment rights, a fear of conservative religious groups, among others.

>> But I think the goal here is to get a bill that we're going to be able to pass, not only in judiciary, but in the House as well.

So, the first part of the amendment, and this is a strike and insert would reduce the number of protected classes to the six protected classes used widely in hate crime legislation, and that would - the protected classes would be race, color, religion, sex, national origin, and physical or mental disability.

Gavin>> The Hate Crimes bill passed the Republican controlled House by a vote of 71 to 28 in early April 2021, leading to bipartisan celebration, and a full throated pressure campaign on the Senate, with just days left in the session that year, >> Legislation will not stop someone from hurting or killing, but I submit to you, we submit to you today that real solutions such as this can eliminate some of the damage and at the same time, it will send a message that South Carolina understands the need to protect all citizens.

As a lawmaking body, we must continue to create policies that aim to protect our citizens.

Gavin>> Within a week, the Hate Crimes bill was assigned a subcommittee, then by a close vote, it was passed out of the full judiciary and put on the Senate Calendar with four days into the last day of the 2021 session.

>> Alright, so a show of hands of those who support moving out again, with all reservations, because clearly, folks, this bill, if it's got to have any life is going to be addressed on the floor.

So, I make no grand illusions of advancing this bill that it will have life but again, that is the hope here.

So those in favor of a favorable vote as amended, please raise your left or right hand.

Gavin>> Since May 5 2021, the bill has sat on the Senate Calendar with a fluctuating number of Republican senators, currently five, objecting to any debate on the bill.

This just nearly seven years after one of the worst hate crimes in the state's history took the life of one of the Senate's own Senator Clementa Pinckney.

dial tone <Polly Sheppard on phone> Please answer.

Oh God.... Dispatch>> 911 What's the address of the emergency?

Polly>> Please, Emanuel church.

There's plenty of people shot down here.

Please send somebody right away.

Dispatch>> Emanuel Church?

Polly>> Emanuel AME 110 Calhoun.

Dispatch>> And there's people shot?

Polly>> Yeah, he shot the pastor.

He shot all the men in the church.

Please come right away.

Dispatch>> Okay, my partner is going to be getting some help on the way while, I get a little bit more information from you.

Okay, stay on the line with me.

Are you safe?

Polly>> He's still in here, I'm afraid.

He's still in here.

Gavin>> Polly Sheppard's life was spared by murderer Dylann Roof so she could tell the world of the horror he wrought through the massacre of nine black parishioners at Mother Emanuel AME Church on June 17 2015, in Charleston, a massacre he hoped for prompt a race war that led to unification and spurred the removal of a divisive symbol from Statehouse grounds.

The very symbol that Roof embraced, the Confederate battle flag.

South Carolina lawmakers didn't change any laws or discuss hate crimes legislation.

They did something that at the time seemed impossible to do for decades.

And in July 2015 the Confederate battle flag was furled.

(crowd cheers) Gavin>> Looking back Colleton, Democratic Senator Margie Bright Matthews, who was elected to Clementa Pinckney's seat after his death, said the move was just enough at the time, nothing more.

>> I think sometimes they're saying, Well, we did what they wanted at the time.

Well, there are a lot of things we fix every year in this General Assembly.

That's why we're here.

It's time for us to fix this.

Gavin>> The Mother Emanuel massacre wasn't the only tragedy to rock the state in 2015.

Just months before, the world watched as Walter Scott was shot five times in the back while running away from North Charleston Police Officer Michael Slager, who fired eight rounds at Scott following a traffic stop.

After which Slager said Scott got control of his taser, pointed it at him and moments later Slager said he felt total fear and then ran from him.

Slager was charged but not convicted of murder.

He later pled guilty to violating Scott's civil rights and was sentenced to 20 years in prison.

The objective cell phone video led South Carolina to become the first in the nation to mandate police body cameras, but now seven years later, Walter Scott's brother Anthony said more remains to be done.

>> After my brother, they got the body cam passed, then four months later after the nine got killed, then they got they lower the flag, but then they stopped.

They stopped and now they're actually put - They're just pushing back all together, and it's and it's awful, but it's we have suffered long enough.

We've been disregarded long enough, and it's time for South Carolina to do the right thing.

We should - we need to lead the pack again.

Only thing this time in the right thing.

Gavin>> House lawmakers approved $30 million dollars for body cameras armor and professional development for officers in their budget this year, but if another Walter Scott situation happened today, it's likely the officer again wouldn't be convicted of murder, while a bipartisan bill would create minimum policing standards for departments and fine those not in compliance as well as outlawing choke holds, in nearly all situations, the bill set to reach the governor's desk this year wouldn't address excessive force.

>> We won't get to the fact that the law doesn't cover what we're talking about, because if you think about it, and you looked at George Floyd and you watch those nine minutes, is it murder?

Well, the jury in Minnesota didn't find him guilty of first degree murder, which is our equivalent.

So, in South Carolina, the answer would be no.

The answer would be no.

The answer when Walter Scott was shot in his back running away, the answer... was no.

Remember, it was a mistrial.

So, an officer can shoot someone in the back.

And it's not even unlawful use of force, because we didn't put that in the statute.

Gavin>>Several reforms in the bipartisan House Committee were adopted into the measure and will make it, while others will die this year.

Despite the state's troubled past and the social upheaval in 2020 that reverberated on the streets of South Carolina and in the halls of the Statehouse in Columbia, the Hate Crimes bill is set to fail.

Despite law enforcement calls for such a measure, including by Richland County Sheriff Leon Lott.

>> For three weeks in Richland County in the Columbia area, we had two individuals that terrorized our Hispanic community.

Over a three week period of time they robbed 27 Hispanics in 17 separate robberies.

Now we did catch them, but our Hispanic community lived in absolute fear for those three weeks.

Now these two individuals that committed these robberies, we haven't charged with robbery.

We don't have anything that we can charge them with, when we discovered the fact that they only robbed Hispanics, and that's what they focused on.

They went on a hunt just for Hispanics.

How do we know that?

Through their text messages?

We obtained a text message that showed, "Let's go get some Mexicans tonight" and other comments they were saying.

We can actually prove that all their robberies were based on the race of the individuals that became their victims.

Gavin>> This anecdote aligns with national data showing hate crimes rose to the highest level in more than a decade in 2019, and the highest number of hate motivated killings were recorded since the FBI started tracking such data in the early 1990s.

Assistant US Attorney General for Civil Rights, Kristen Clark elaborated on the data before a Senate panel in March >> Since January of 2021, we have charged more than 30 defendants with federal hate crimes.

We've also secured convictions and sentences in more than 20 Hate Crimes cases.

Gavin>> Senator Tim Scott was recently before a Senate panel and spoke of the rising threats against historically black colleges and universities in South Carolina and elsewhere.

Scott's statements came shortly before his Anti-lynching bill, legislation that was more than a century in the making, was sent to President Joe Biden's desk for his signature.

>> Hate never goes away.

It only hides.

It hides under the rocks, given just a little bit of oxygen, it comes roaring back out, screaming.

What stops it...is all of us.

Not a few.

All of us have to stop it.

Gavin>> Senate Minority Leader Brad Hutto said it's obvious that hate still has oxygen in South Carolina.

Just look at the murder of Senator Pinckney and his eight parishioners.

>> We passed a bipartisan Hate Crimes bill in 1998, in the Senate, did not pass the House.

Now the House has passed one.

Nothing really has changed other than we've had a colleague of ours assassinated in a hate crimes act of violence.

If anybody should pass a Hate Crimes bill it should be the South Carolina Senate.

It is a big deal.

We have a right now.

We have the potential to lose business investment in South Carolina.

We're one of only two states that doesn't have a Hate Crimes bill.

Our own Republican Senator Tim Scott just got the Anti- lynching bill through the US Congress.

We can't get a simple Hate Crimes bill through the South Carolina Senate, is really a shame.

Gavin>> Senate Republican Leader Shane Massey, who is not objecting to debate, said on a recent interview on This Week in South Carolina, that such a bill isn't necessary.

>> I think it's unlikely anything's possible, but I think it's unlikely.

I mean, there's significant opposition.

And I don't know that there is as much support for that as some of the advocates and proponents would lead others to believe.

So I think that was going to have a very, a very steep uphill climb in the Senate.

Gavin>> Several senators have removed their objections to the bill, but five currently remain.

I went to speak with several at a recent Senate Judiciary Committee meeting, including Anderson Republican Senator Richard Cash, who wouldn't comment.

Cash>> I'm not interested in talking about that.

Gavin>> Last year, however, Cash did have something to say before the committee voted on the legislation.

>> ...So how many ...different classes are we going to create of people who get extra, extra protection or extra ...I don't know what you'd call it, extra punishment because their perpetrator did something to them and they fell into a protected class that we decided was good enough to put into the law.

I think it's just endlessly divisive.

Gavin>> Greenville Republican senator Dwight Loftis did make some time to discuss his objections to the bill.

Loftis>> Well it's not going to pass and I think it just needs to be worked on.

Gavin>> What are your concerns about all of this.

>> Hate crime and hate speech is next.

Gavin>> So you're worried that it might infringe on the person... >> I think that's enough.

Gavin>> What about the workplace?

The language in the bill really doesn't specify anything about language though, in terms of First Amendment... Loftis>> Have you ever heard of amendments?

Gavin>> Or you worried about the amendments on the bill?

>> Yeah, and it's just moving in that direction.

You had you had ministers, sermons, subpoenaed or at least the threat of a subpoena back in 2014, because they were preaching something from the Bible that somebody disagreed with Gavin>> But don't you think that's a little bit different than someone maybe getting assaulted or murdered for - because of their skin... >> Yes, but there's more, more reasons for that.

Police officers are getting a shot in their car.

For what?

You know... were they charged with that?

Someone from another country running down a street parade street, were they charged with a hate crime?

That's hard to determine.

Gavin>> So that's like - do you debate on the floor?

>> I think it's too late, this year to do that.

Gavin>> It is indeed too late.

The protests have subsided and the two year legislative session ends May 12.

Proponents optimism from a year ago has been replaced by fear that such a bill will never become law until it's too late, when another person or persons are terrorized and or killed, because they are different.

To continue our look at the Hate Crimes bill.

I'm joined by Charleston, Republican Senator Sandy Senn.

Senator Senn, thanks for joining us.

>> Yes, thanks for having me.

Gavin>> So Senator Senn you sat on the Senate subcommittee for the Hate Crimes bill, that was in their subcommittee last April, last May got to the floor of the Senate calendar.

and I want to ask you, it's been there again since May, last May.

We're approaching the end of session this year.

What's been going on with that bill?

What is your understanding about why it's just been stuck on the calendar?

Sen. Senn>> Well, it's stuck on the calendar because I think there were seven objections.

I think at one point, there might have even been eight.

And so when that happens, basically the only way to get it through would be to put it on special order.

I have seen no effort out of leadership to get it put on special order.

I do hope that that's going to change.

There's a very slight chance it could change this year, but I really think we're looking at trying to give it another go next year, even if it's put on special order, with that many senators objecting they could mount a successful filibuster.

So that's not something that we want that would take up, you know, a month on the Senate calendar with that many people attempting to filibuster.

So really, I think we're just going to need to work with those senators who object and see if we can come to some type of common ground.

Gavin>> Yeah, filibuster with, I guess about four days left right now by that - by the time this show airs, it'll be three days left in the session, but I want to ask you, you were on that subcommittee, what are some of those concerns that folks have about this bill that you heard that worked through the committee process?

Sen. Senn>> Certain members of my party believed that a hate crime isn't necessary because a crime is a crime is a crime, and you don't need to add anything on to it for hatred.

And they say that you can't really climb into the heart of people to know whether this crime was committed out of hate, but in some cases, you most certainly can.

It's not going to be something easy to prove, even if or I'm going to say when we eventually pass the hate crimes bill.

It's not going to be something easy to prove, you know, prosecutors are going to have to have that added burden to convince a jury of an entirely separate crime, that this, whatever the act was, was done out of hatred, then it would tack more onto their sentence.

And that is good for several reasons.

Number one, when you have dual sentences that run back to back, you have to serve out the first sentence up to 85%.

And when you have another sentence running consecutively, then that really is going to help ensure truth in sentencing.

So for instance, if somebody murdered somebody out of hate, like Dylann Roof did, and you know that it's hate.

He even wrote a manifesto, then that is a situation where clearly a prosecutor would...have an easier time at prosecuting it.

So I mean, and even smaller things, think about graves that just get desecrated with BLM.

You know, because this hate crimes more of ways if... a member...you either, a lot of people that were whether they were under the guise of BLM, or were actually part of the movement, they committed what I would consider hate crimes as well, looting a bunch of cities, a number of police officers got shot, as you know, ambush style back during COVID, when all that stuff was going on.

So this is not just about protecting African Americans.

It's about protecting everybody from crimes of hate.

And, you know, I think that we just we need to keep pressing and keep trying to educate my colleagues, that this is something that's going to be hard to prove.

But when it's proven, it's needed.

Gavin>> And what about the concern about free speech issues, too?

That's something that I heard from Senator Dwight Loftis and some others.

>> What?

I don't, I'm failing to understand how Gavin>> - in terms of harassment of, harassing language can be misconstrued as hate speech, or they can be, you know, prosecuted under this bill, even though they're, that language has been taken out of it.

Sen. Senn>> Well, like I said, Yes, you need to look at the language of the bill, because it's changed some but then again, I mean, all that would be...an element of the offense.

It's something that the prosecutors would have to look at, and the judge would have to decide whether it's admissible or not, for instance, if somebody starts throwing out the N word, or calling somebody a Jew, or, you know, telling a female that she's, you know, whatever the bad names are that you want to use during the act of the crime.

I would say that would just be one piece of the evidence.

But again, that's not even in the bill anymore.

So, there's no argument.

Gavin>> ...Senator wrapping up really quick, I want to talk about a bill that is moving forward that will likely get to the governor's desk, and that's age 30, 50, that's looking at some police reforms here, would create...minimum policing standards for all state agencies, state law enforcement agencies, you know, ranging from on when to pursue someone in a vehicle, choke holds, etcetera.

Can you talk to us about that bill that just passed the Senate and what's in it exactly?

>> So I represent law enforcement.

That's what I do for a living and I have for more than 30 years now.

I shepherded that bill through even though it was a House Bill, I was very happy to get it and we do not call it police reform.

If you haven't noticed, we are down 30% police now.

So, if we keep knocking our police and making them think that they're so bad, they need to be reformed, We're going to lose ground, what the I call it is as a betterment act, and really what this bill is aimed at management.

It is not aimed at the street officer, as you may know, especially in small towns, hiring a police officer is a revenue generator with speeding tickets and whatnot.

But along with putting an officer out on the street, that officer needs to be trained, and right now, many agencies are putting officers out on the street with a badge and a gun without training, and they can do that for up to a year, and that's absolutely insane.

That's no better than calling Bubba next door if you're hurt, or you need help, and now they do have to have gun training for them to carry a gun, but otherwise, they need to act as a police officer for a year.

This bill is going to make sure that for the towns that do that they are going to have to have a true certified officer in the car, so you don't just put a person that has not gone through Academy out into the streets for a year.

That's something that we really need, these policies and procedures.

We're not telling the towns how to - what their policies and procedures have to be, but we are going to say you have to have certain policies, whether it's only use of excessive force, high speed pursuits, things of that nature, and we will help them so it won't be a fiscal impact to them.

They don't have to go through CALEA like most of the big towns do, and so the bill really won't impact the larger agencies, but it will impact the smaller agencies, but we were going to give them draft bills and let their chiefs and their mayors decide which they want to implement, but they're going to at least have to have a policy.

Gavin>> Gotcha.

So, some big changes happening there.

While we kind of watched the Hate Crimes bill stall this session.

Thanks again to Republican Senator Sandy Senn.

>> Thank you.

Appreciate it.

>>To stay up to date with the latest news throughout the week.

Check out the South Carolina Lede.

It's a podcast that I host twice a week that you can find on South Carolina public radio.org or wherever you find podcasts.

For South Carolina ETV, I'm Gavin Jackson.

Be well, South Carolina.

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