LIVE CC BY ABERDEEN CAPTIONING 800-688-6621 WWW.ABERCAP.COM >> COMING UP NEXT ON "HEADLINE HUMBOLDT", LOCAL ATTORNEY AND POLITICAL COMMENTATOR ERIC KIRK JOINS US TO TALK ABOUT THE RECENT INDICTMENTS OF DONALD TRUMP, HOW HE HAS IMPACTED OUR POLITICS AND WHAT WITH CAN DO TO RECOVER OUR SENSE OF NATIONAL COMMUNITY.

THERE IS A BRIGHT KNEW FLASH OF COLOR TO RECKON WITH ON EUREKA'S MAIN DRAG.

COMING UP NOW ON "HEADLINE HUMBOLDT".

FROM THE TOP OF HUMBOLDT HILL, THIS IS "HEADLINE HUMBOLDT", I'M JAMES FAULK, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

WHATEVER YOUR POLITICS, THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS HAVE BEEN AN UGLY TIME IN AMERICAN SOCIETY, SINCE 2015 AND THE RUNUP TO THE 2016 ELECTION, OUR COUNTRY HAS BEEN DIVIDED AND AT ONE ANOTHER'S THROATS BECAUSE OF DONALD TRUMP.

TWO IMPEACHMENTS, LEVELS OF VITRIOL HIGHER THAN I HAVE SEEN.

AT THE CENTER OF IT ALL IS A MAN WHO HAS BECOME A ROAR SCHACHT TEST.

NOW MANY HAVE STEPPED IN TO BRING IN ACCOUNTABILITY WHILE OTHERS BELIEVE IT TO BE A PARTISAN WITCH HUNT.

WHICH IS RIGHT?

I HAVE A DEFINITE OPINION.

LE THE PROBLEM, OF COURSE, IS OVER THESE SAME YEARS, PEOPLE'S PERCEPTIONS OF THE TRUTH AND ITS IMPORTANCE TO THE SYSTEM AND OUR INSTITUTIONS HAS SUFFERED PERHAPS IRREPARABLE HARM.

THAT IS PART OF WHAT I WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT TONIGHT, WITH OUR GUEST ATTORNEY ERIC KIRK.

HOW CAN WE, AS A SOCIETY, GO BACK TO AN ERA IN OUR DEBATES AND INSTITUTIONS WE ACCEPT WITH AMERICANS THE SAME STARTING FACTS.

CAN IT EVEN BE DONE?

WE'LL BE BACK WITH NEWS AND THE INTERVIEW.

>> THIS YEAR'S STREET ART FESTIVAL IN EUREKA TOOK ON BROADWAY, BRINGING SOME EXTRAORDINARY GRAFFITI AND BRUSH PAINT ARTISTS FROM THOUSANDS OF MILES AWAY TO JOIN LOCAL TALENT WHO MADE A BIG SPLASH OF COLOR OVER OUR MOSTLY GRAY CITY.

THE COLORFUL UPGRADE IS TURNING HEADS.

>> THIS YEAR OVER 600 ARTISTS THREW THEIR HAT IN THE RING FOR ONE OF 18 PROJECTS FOCUSED AND EUREKAA'S ENTRANCE VIA HIGHWAY 101.

>> WE ARE STANDING BY THIS AWESOME MUR RAL BY ONE OF OUR INTERNATIONAL ARTISTS FROM PUERTO RICO AND HE PAINTED TWO PIECES FOR THE FESTIVAL.

THIS IS THE SECOND ONE AND HE JUST WRAPPED IT UP.

HIS FIRST MURAL IS A RETAINING WALL ON THE 101, IS A MIXTURE OF BRUSH PAINT AND SPRAY PAINT.

>> OKAY.

>> THIS PIECE IS ALL SPRAY PAINT.

HE DESIGNED IT IN THIS MON CHROMATIC BLUES TO MATCH THE EXISTING COVERAGE OF THE BUILDING.

THERE IS NOT A FULL COVERAGE MURAL, QUITE A BIT OF THE BUILDING IS POPPING THROUGH.

SO HE WANTED IT TO LOOK LIKE IT BELONGS HERE.

THE BUBBLE MOTIF COMES IN THROUGH HIS WORK.

IT IS FUN TO SEE MULTIPLE PIECES OF AN ARTIST TO SEE WHAT MAKES THEIR WORK THEIR OWN.

WE ARE CURRENTLY ON OUR SIXTH YEAR OF THE ART FESTIVAL AND IT STARTED WHEN MICHELLE, WHO IS ONE OF THE CO-OWNERS OF THE HUMBOLDT CIDER COMPANY IS ON THE COMMISSION.

I GOT ROPED IN BECAUSE I'M AN ARTIST.

THE THIRD OF THE TR TRIO IS A C PLANNER AT THE CITY OF EUREKA.

NOW WE ARE JUST CRUISING IN A LOT OF WAYS.

THE FESTIVAL WAS REALLY BORN OUT OF THIS HOPE TO BRING MORE COLOR TO EUREKA AND TO USE ART AS A TOOL FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.

EVERY YEAR WE ARE BLOWN AWAY BY THE RECEPTION THE COMMUNITY HAS FOR THIS FESTIVAL.

WE ARE USED TO A FESTIVAL WHERE IT IS ONE DAY OR TWO DAYS AND IT IS A BIG PARTY.

THIS IS A LITTLE FORMAT FOR A FESTIVAL.

IT IS A WEEK LONG, PEOPLE ARE PAINTING ALL OVER THE PLACE.

WE ARE SPREAD OUT.

YOU ARE DRIVING DOWN BROADWAY AND WHAT IS THAT?

SO THERE IS AN ELEMENT OF SURPRISE AND DELIGHT PUTTING THESE MURALS UP AROUND TOWN.

ONE THE FESTIVAL IS OVER THESE MURALS STAY UP.

SO WE HAVE SEEN INCREASED TOURISM FOR FOLKS COMING THROUGH EUREKA, WE HAVE SEEN AN INCREASE IN THE LENGTH OF STAY WHILE PEOPLE HANG OUT EXPLORING AND WANT TO CHECK THEM OUT MORE.

>> YEAH.

>> AND WE HAVE SEEN THE ABILITY TO RAISE UP A LOT OF OUR LOCAL ARTISTS WHO ARE MAKING A LIVING AT MURALS OR WHO WANT TO MAKE A LIVING PAINTING MURALS.

>> I MET UP WITH TWO ARTISTS WORKING ON TWO WALLS ON FIFTH STREET IN EUREKA.

>> WE ARE KIND OF MARRYING THE REDWOOD FORESTS WITH SOME BRAZILIAN JUNGLES, GIANT PASSION FLOWER.

THIS BUILDING HASN'T BEEN PAINTED FOR 40 YEARS.

IT IS HEAVILY TEXTURED STUCCO.

SO WE USED ABOUT 120% MORE PRIMARY AS USUAL AND PAINT AS USUAL BECAUSE OF THE SURFACE AREA OF STUCCO.

IT FELT LIKE THE WHOLE BUILDING NEEDED A NEW SKIN SO WE GAVE IT ONE.

I LIKE TO ADD COLOR TO MY PRIMER.

I DON'T LIKE TO DO JUST STRAIGHT WHITE.

IT IS TOO BRIGHT.

NICE MEDIUM TONE OF BLUE.

>> THE PROPERTY OWNERS HAVE AN IDEA WHO THEY WANT TO PAINT AND WHAT THEY WANT SO OFTEN OUR JOB IS TO FACILITATE THOSE CONNECTIONS.

>> WITH A WHOPPING 100 MURALS COMPLETED TO DATE, THE EUREKA STREET ART FESTIVAL HAS BEEN AN OVERWHELMING SUCCESS.

FOR "HEADLINE HUMBOLDT", THIS IS RYAN HUTSON.

>> A NEW ARTS FUND HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED FUNDED BY FERNDALE ARTIST JOAN CATCHRY'S WORK TO ENCOURAGE THE NEXT GENERATION OF LOCAL ARTISTS.

SHE PASSED AWAY LIVING A SIGNIFICANT BODY LEFT BEHIND.

THE FUND WILL BE CELEBRATED THROUGH THE FERNDALE ARTS GALLERY WHERE SHE WAS A LONG TIME MINNER.

>> JOAN CATCHERY WHO WE LOST THIS SPRING, ACTUALLY JANUARY, WAS A LONG TIME MEMBER OF THE FERNDALE ARTS GALLERY.

SHE WAS AN AMAZING ARTIST.

AS A YOUNG WOMAN SHE ATTENDED FERNDALE HIGH, THIRD GENERATION FROM FERNDALE.

HER FIRST BIG PROJECT WAS PAINTING A MURAL OF BEAKERS AND CAPS ON THE SCIENCE WALL AT THE HIGH SCHOOL IN FERNDALE.

I'M CURIOUS TO SEE IF IT STILL EXISTS.

>> YEAH, YEAH.

THAT WOULD BE AMAZING.

>> SHE WENT OFF TO AN ARTS SCHOOL IN OAKLAND AND GOT A DEGREE IN FASHION ILLUSTRATION.

SHE WORKED IN SAN FRANCISCO FOR SEVERAL YEARS.

SHE MOVED UP THROUGH THE RANKS DOING ILLUSTRATIONS FOR THE CITY OF PARIS.

>> WOW.

>> AND EVEN GOT TO WALK ON THE RUNWAY WAS -- I DON'T REMEMBER -- >> A FASHION SHOW.

IN PARIS.

THAT SOUNDS LIKE A BIG DEAL.

>> I THINK SHE PROBABLY GREW BORED AND WENT BACK EAST.

SHE SHOWED IN HUGE, FANTASTIC GALLERIES.

THERE ARE PLACES LIKE MAYOR -- MARRIOT HOTELS OWN A COLLECTION OF JOAN'S WORK.

THERE ARE OWNERS FROM HBO, IBM, A FASHION DESIGN, DESIGN ARTS, I THINK, OWNS HER WORK.

>> YEAH.

>> A LOT OF PRIVATE COLLECTIONS.

BUT WHEN SHE RETURNED HOME, THIS WAS A THRIVING ART COMMUNITY.

EVERY STORE, IT SEEMED LIKE IN FERNDALE, HAS A LITTLE GALLERY.

THERE WERE GALLERIES UP AND DOWN FERNDALE STREET.

>> YEAH.

>> SHE JOINED THE CANDLESTICK GALLERY OWNED BY McBRIDE.

THIS GALLERY WAS JUST STARTING.

IT WAS THE MID 90s.

>> I THINK SHE WOULD BE GLAD BECAUSE SHE TALKED ABOUT HOW HARD IT IS FOR YOUNG PEOPLE COMING ALONG TO BE ARTISTS.

WE HAD AN EASIER TIME.

FERNDALE WAS A MECCA.

ALMOST EVERY STREET WAS A GALLERY.

I GREW UP WITH THE CRAFT FAIRS WHERE PEOPLE COULD MAKE A LIVING JUST SELLING YOUR WORK.

SO WE REALLY ARE APPRECIATIVE OF HOW HARD IT IS FOR PEOPLE NOW.

>> YEAH.

>> TO DEVOTE THEMSELVES TO ART.

SO I THINK THIS MEANS A LOT TO HER.

>> JOAN STARTED THE MEMORIAL SCHOLARSHIP FUND, ONE OF THE NEWEST FUNDS AT THE FOUNDATION.

WE ARE EXCITED AND EXPECTED TO MAKE THE FIRST AWARD IN JANUARY 2024.

OPEN TO ALL HUMBOLDT COUNTY STUDENTS AT HIGH SCHOOLS AND ART STUDENTS AT CR AND CAL POLY HUMBOLDT.

IT MIGHT BE GOING TOWARDS STUDENTS STUDYING PAINTING OR SCULPTURE.

WE CAN OPEN TO ALL FORMS OF ART STUDENTS.

WE ARE EXCITED TO BE PART OF JOAN'S PASSION AND HELPING THE FAMILY CHANNEL THAT PASSION INTO THE COMMUNITY AND THE NEXT GENERATION OF ARTISTS.

>> WE'RE JOINED BY LOCAL ATTORNEY AND POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, POLITICO, AS THEY SAY, ERIC KIRK.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANKS FOR JOINING US ONCE AGAIN.

YOU COME IN AND GIVE A LEARNED RESPONSE TO THE DAY.

AS THE LAST SEVEN YEARS TRUMP IS AT THE CENTER OF THE ZEITGEIST RIGHT NOW, IN A LOT OF WAYS.

SO THREE INDICTMENTS SO FAR, LIKES LIKE THERE MIGHT BE A FOURTH INDICTMENT COMING.

AS A SOCIETY, BOTH SIDES OF THIS DEBATE, HAVE WRESTLED WITH WHERE ARE WE GOING AFTER TRUMP EVEN THOUGH HE IS NOT RETIRED YET.

HE IS RUNNING FOR OFFICE AGAIN.

IN 20 YEARS WHAT ARE PEOPLE GOING LOOK BACK AND THINK ABOUT TRUMP?

BOTH SIDES THINK THEY HAVE IT FIGURED OUT.

HOW IS THIS ENVIRONMENT WHERE WE ARE WITH FOUR INDICTMENTS IN TERMS OF TRUMP'S LEGACY OVERALL.

>> I COULD SPEND HOURS ON THAT.

A LOT DEPENDS ON WHAT HAPPENS NEXT YEAR.

IF TRUMP WINS THE PRESIDENCY AGAIN.

HE IS RUNNING.

IT LOOKS LIKE HE IS GOING BE THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE BECAUSE NOBODY ELSE HAS IT TOGETHER.

>> YEAH.

>> THEN I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CONSEQUENCES WILL BE OF THAT.

OUR INSTITUTIONS, OUR DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS WILL BE TESTED EVEN FURTHER IF HE DOES WIN.

IF HE DOESN'T WIN, WILL HIS MOVEMENT JUST DISAPPEAR?

WILL SOMEBODY ELSE RIDE THE WAVES OF THAT IN?

I DON'T KNOW.

IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE DeSANTIS, HIS CAMPAIGN IS BEING BOMBED AS PEOPLE GOT TO KNOW HIM.

SO WHO REPLACES HIM?

WE'VE GOT -- ACTUALLY, SOME SANE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES, BUT THEY DON'T SEEM TO HAVE A CHANCE, ALTHOUGH THEY WOULD HAVE THE BEST CHANCE.

>> YOU COME TO THE MIDDLE IN THE GENERAL ELECTION AND THEY DO ATTRACT THERE, BUT NOT NECESSARILY WITH THE -- HAVE YOU READ THE INDICTMENTS?

>> I HAVE.

>> SO WHICH OF THOSE THREE PRESENTS THE MOST THREAT TO HIM?

>> DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU MEAN.

WHETHER YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT POLITICAL OR LEGAL.

THE ONE -- THE DOCUMENTS CASE IS THE STRONGEST OF THE THREE AND PROBABLY THE FOURTH THERE IS GOING BE STATE CHARGES IN GEORGIA NEXT WEEK.

>> RELATED TO THE REDOING THE ELECTION.

>> AS A LEGAL CHALLENGE, THE TOUGHEST ONE HE HAS IS THE ONE WITH THE CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS.

YOU HAD DOCUMENTS CLASSIFIED.

HE HAD THEM, REFUSED TO TURN THEM OVER.

IT SEEMS LIKE END OF STORY.

THE OTHER CHARGES ARE A BIT MORE DIFFICULT.

I WAS UNDERWHELMED WITH BRAGG'S CHARGES WITH THE HUSH MONEY IN NEW YORK.

THIS ONE IS MORE SERIOUS IN TERMS OF POLITICAL IMPACT BECAUSE IT MAY BE THE ONE THAT HAS PEOPLE, EVEN SUPPORTERS LOOKING AT IT AND SAYING WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?

>> THE BRAGG ONE?

>> NO.

>> JACK SMITH'S REGARDING JANUARY 6.

>> WHAT IS GOING HAPPEN IS THERE IS A LONG POLITICAL DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED.

THE DEFENSES MAY BE PROBLEMATIC AS A MATTER OF LAW, THEY WILL BE VERY PROBLEMATIC AS A MATTER OF POLITICS.

HE IS SAYING I DIDN'T KNOW, I WAS AN IDIOT, I WAS TRUSTING MY ATTORNEYS.

>> NEVER DO THAT, RIGHT?

>> YEAH.

EXACTLY.

HE HAS A PROBLEM BECAUSE EVERYONE WHO HE APPOINTED ADVISED HIM ONE WAY AND HE BROUGHT IN PEOPLE SAYING THINGS HE WANTED TO HEAR, GIULIANI, POWELL, EASTMAN AND THE REST.

THERE WAS TEAM SANE AND TEAM NOT SANE OR WHATEVER, HOW IT WAS TERMED.

HE WAS COMPLETELY NOT LISTENING TO THE PEOPLE HE APPOINTED, BARR, AND OTHERS WHO TOLD HIM, NO, YOU LOST THE ELECTION.

IT IS DONE.

IT IS OVER.

>> YEAH.

>> AND HE CONTINUED.

OF COURSE THERE IS GOING BE THE FIRST AMENDMENT DEFENSE.

YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO LIE.

YOU HAVE THE FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT TO LIE EVEN IF YOU ARE THE PRESIDENT, BUT NOT IN CONJUNCTION WITH CERTAIN OTHER THINGS.

>> WORKING WITH OTHER PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY THE CONSPIRACY ASPECT, ALL OF THAT.

DID YOU WATCH THE JANUARY 6 HEARINGS WITH CONGRESS?

>> MUCH OF IT.

NOT ALL OF IT, BUT A LOT OF IT.

>> FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, DID IT SEEM LIKE THERE WAS A CHARGEABLE CASE THERE?

>> OH, YEAH.

>> YEAH.

>> AGAIN, A LOT WILL DEPEND ON THE DETAILS THAT COME OUT DURING DISCOVERY.

BUT, YEAH, I MEAN -- I ACTUALLY LEARNED SOMETHING NEW WITH THESE INDICTMENTS.

HE APPOINTED CLARK TO HEAD THE DOJ AS ATTORNEY GENERAL.

I DON'T KNOW HOW IT WORKS.

I DON'T KNOW HOW HE WAS REMOVED.

I HAVE BEEN LOOKING INTO THAT, BUT APPARENTLY FOR A FEW DAYS HE WAS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL WHEN THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE REBELLED AND THREATENED TO QUIT.

I DON'T THINK THEY REALIZED HE HAD DONE WHATEVER NECESSARY TO MAKE IT TEMPORARY.

OF COURSE, IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE CONFIRMED BY THE SENATE.

>> THERE IS A WINDOW WHERE YOU CAN SERVE AND NOT -- >> THAT'S RIGHT.

AND BY THE TIME THAT HAPPENED HE WAS IN THEORY GOING BE OUT OF OFFICE.

IF HE WAS STILL IN OFFICE, WELL, HE WOULD HAVE TO BE CONFIRMED BY THE SENATE.

IF HE WAS STILL IN OFFICE AND FOLLOWING MR. EASTMAN'S ADVICE AND CLARK'S, IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN A COUP, MARTIAL LAW.

>> INSURRECTION ACT.

>> IT IS SCARY.

THIS PLAN DIDN'T REALLY HAVE A CHANCE.

IT WAS STUPID.

IT WAS -- IT DEPENDED ON VICE PRESIDENT PENCE COOPERATING.

IT DEPENDED ON A LOT OF PEOPLE COOPERATING WITH A LOT OF STUFF, BUT THE POINT IS HE TRIED IT.

>> IS THAT AN EXCUSE IN THE LAW, IF YOU PLAN TO ROB THE BANK OF STUPID, IT IS STILL A PLAN TO ROB A BANK.

>> AND YOU TAKE ACTION EVEN IF IT NEVER HAD A CHANCE OF BEING SUCCESSFUL.

YOU DON'T DO THAT.

YOU DON'T MAKE MOVEMENTS TOWARDS THAT, ESPECIALLY IF HE REALLY DID APPOINT CLARK.

THAT'S A BIG DEAL.

>> YEAH.

THE INTERESTING THINGS ABOUT THE DOCUMENTS CASE IS JUDGE EILEEN CANNON, WHO SEEMS TO BE NOT SHY ISSUING RULINGS THAT WILL BE CONTROVERSIAL.

I CAN'T READ HER MIND SO I DON'T KNOW IF THE MOTIVE IS TO HELP TRUMP, BUT IT SEEMS THAT IS THE EFFECT.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN FROM HER, ESPECIALLY THE MOST RECENT CHIDING OF THE PROSECUTION.

>> IT TURNS OUT SHE WAS PROMPTED BY THAT WATCHING RIGHT WING TELEVISION, NOT SURE IF IT WAS FOX OR NEWSMAX.

SHE GOT HER PROMPT FROM THEM.

IF SHE WANTS TO HELP HIM, THAT IS NOT THE WAY BECAUSE SHE IS GOING TO GET HERSELF REMOVED.

>> IS THERE ANY RECOURSE IN TERMS OF THE LONG-TERM PICTURE?

IF THERE IS SOMEONE WHO SEEMS LIKE ACCORDING TO THE MAJORITY OF LEGAL OPINIONS IN THE STATE, DOES THE BAR ASSOCIATION TAKE ACTION?

IS THERE ANYTHING A JUDGE CAN -- HOW CAN THEY BE REMOVED?

>> THE PROSECUTION CAN MAKE A MOTION TO REMOVE HER.

THE COURTS CAN DO IT ON HER OWN.

THAT MAY ACTUALLY HAPPEN.

THE CIRCUIT THAT SHE'S IN LITERALLY NAILED HER TO THE WALL LAST TIME.

>> SHE IS ON THE RECORD AS HAVING BEEN A PROBE YUM OR WHATEVER.

>> RIGHT.

>> I HAVE BEEN WATCHING THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY AS MUCH AS IT HAS GONE ON AND IT SEEMS LIKE CHRIS CHRISTIE HAS CHANGED HIS POSITION FROM BEING A TRUMP SUPPORTER.

WHAT DO YOU THINK HE WILL DO TO GET IN POSITION?

>> I THINK HE WENT IN TO GET IN DEBATE WITH RUBIO AND DESTROY HIM.

MARCO RUBIO FAILED IN A DEBATE AND CRISTIE WAS AGGRESSIVE AND DID THAT.

THAT IS RUMORED TO BE WHY TRUMP IS THINKING MAYBE I DON'T WANT TO BE IN THE DEBATES.

CHRIS CHRISTIE, CAN -- HE WANTS TO SAVE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

>> YEAH.

>> HE HAS BECOME A NEVER-TRUMPER, BASICALLY.

DOES HE HAVE A CHANCE OF WINNING?

I DOUBT IT.

I DOUBT ANYBODY WHO, FOR INSTANCE, HE IS PRO-CHOICE, I DON'T THINK HE CAN GET THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION AND BE PRO-CHOICE.

>> AS I LOOK AT IT, I DIDN'T THINK TRUMP WOULD WIN IN 2016.

I'M NOT SOMEONE YOU WANT TO PLACE BETS ON IN TERMS OF ELECTION PREDICTIONS.

I ALSO THOUGHT, YEAH, WELL, ANYWAY.

LOOKING AT THE SITUATION WITH THE TRIALS AND INDICTMENTS PILING UP, HOW WOULD TRUMP WIN?

A PART OF ME IS LIKE THERE IS NO WAY.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO US HOW YOU THINK THERE IS A POSSIBILITY HE COULD STILL PULL IT OUT EN THOUGH, FOR A LOT OF US IT'S -- >> IT SEEMS HARD.

HIS SUPPORT WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS ACTUALLY INCREASED.

IF I WAS A REPUBLICAN CONSPIRACY THEORIST, I WOULD THEORIZE THAT THE REASON TRUMP IS BEING CHARGED IS TO BOLSTER THAT SO HE BECOMES THE NOMINEE SO IT IS EASIER FOR BIDEN TO WIN, RIGHT?

>> YEAH.

>> BUT I THINK THAT IS VERY ELABORATE.

IF I WAS GOING DO THAT, I THINK HE HAS A CHANCE OF WINNING IN THE GENERAL, ESPECIALLY IF THINGS GO REALLY BAD FOR BIDEN.

IF MORE OF HIS AGE ISSUES COME ABOUT -- >> EVEN THOUGH TRUMP IS CLOSE TO THE SAME AGE.

>> RIGHT.

AND DOESN'T SEEM TO BE AS HEALTHY.

>> BUT I THINK IT IS UNLIKELY HE WILL GET THE INDEPENDENT VOTERS.

HE LOST THEM IN 2020 BECAUSE OF THE CHAOS.

I DON'T THINK HE CAN RECLAIM THEM, ESPECIALLY IF HE IS NOT SHOWING THAT THERE IS GOING BE ANY LESS CHAOS.

HE WILL GET A SOLID 80% OF THE REPUBLICAN VOTE, IT SOUNDS LIKE, BECAUSE THERE IS JUST A COMPLETE DIFFERENT PICTURES OF REALITY THAT TWO, I WON'T SAY HALVES OF THE COUNTRY, BUT TWO 40%S OF THE COUNTRY HAVE OF REALITY.

THEY HAVE A VERY DIFFERENT VIEW OF REALITY.

SO HE PROBABLY CAN WIN THE NOMINATION.

I FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE HE COULD WIN THE GENERAL, BUT LIKE YOU, I ALSO DIDN'T THINK IT WOULD HAPPEN IN 2016.

SO I NEVER SAY NEVER.

WHAT IF SOMETHING HAPPENS WITH BIDEN THAT DEPRESSES THE DEMOCRATIC VOTE?

DEMOCRATIC VOTERS TURN ON THEIR OWN WHEN THEY FEEL THERE ARE SELLOUTS AND IF THEY SIT OUT THE ELECTION AND TRUMP PULLS OUT AN ELECTORAL COLLEGE WIN AGAIN WITH FEWER VOTES, BUT THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE IN HIS FAVOR, I WOULD SAY IT IS POSSIBLE.

I WOULD SAY IT IS UNLIKELY, BUT 2016 WAS UNLIKELY.

>> THE THIRD WAVE, THE GROUP POTENTIAL I WILL TALKING ABOUT MANCHIN.

>> YES.

>> CAN YOU TALK BRIEFLY HOW THAT CAN AFFECT THE RESULTS?

>> I'M NOT SURE HOW IT WOULD AFFECT IT.

KYRSTIN SINEMA HAS SAID SHE WILL RUN.

IT BENEFIS GALLEGO, THE FRONT RUNNING REPUBLICAN, SHE DRAWS MORE REPUBLICANS.

IF KARI LAKE WINS THE NOMINATION, AND SHE DECLARED SHE IS IS RUNNING, IT WILL SPLIT THAT VOTE.

CAN MANCHIN DO THE SAME THING BECAUSE HE HAS AN R IN FRONT OF HIS NAME.

>> AND OPTIONS.

>> THEY LIKE MANCHIN, WHO MAY LEAVE THE PARTY.

I DON'T KNOW WHO IT WILL BENEFIT, THE RUN OF CORNELL WEST WOULD HURT BIDEN.

A CERTAIN NUMBER OF PEOPLE VOTE THIRD PARTY ANYWAY SO HOW MUCH DOES A THIRD PARTY RUN AFFECT THE OUTCOME EVEN IF YOU GET AS MUCH AS 4%.

>> THE ONLY DIFFERENCE WITH THE THIRD WAY, THAT IS THE NAME, RIGHT?

THEY ARE SECURED ON THE BALLOT FOR 50 STATES >> YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO BE ON 50 STATES.

YOU CAN RUN FOR PRESIDENT AS A QUESTION IN THE KEY SWING STATES.

>> IF YOU CAN GET THE VOTES FROM THOSE PLACES.

>> THIRD WAY IS A DIFFERENT REFERENCE.

IT IS A REFERENCE TO THE DEMOCRATS 1990s COMING UP WITH A THIRD WAY ALTERNATIVE LIBERALISM.

>> WHAT NAME AM I GETTING WRONG?

>> THIRD PARTY.

MANCHIN HAS A DIFFERENT NAME FOR WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

I'M FORGETTING WHAT IT IS.

NO LABELS.

>> YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.

NO LABELS.

SORRY ABOUT THAT, FOLKS.

NOW, WE ARE APPROACHING THE TRIALS ON THIS THING.

DO YOU THINK THERE IS TIME BETWEEN NOW AND ELECTION DAY FOR THESE TRIALS TO GET UNDERWAY AND DON'T YOU THINK THAT IS AN ABSOLUTE REQUIREMENT IN TERMS OF HAVING TRIALS LIKE THIS BEFORE AN ELECTION?

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> OSTENSIBLY, ACCORDING TO LEGAL ANALYSTS, WHAT TRUMP IS PUSHING FOR IS TO DELAY THEM TO TEST THE THEORY HE COULD PARDON HIMSELF.

IT DOES LOOK LIKE THE PROSECUTIONS IN ALL THE CASES ARE PUSHING FOR EARLY TRIALS.

JACK SMITH IS LOOKING TO MOVE THE MORE SERIOUS CHARGES UP AS QUICKLY AS JANUARY.

>> YEAH.

I SAW THAT.

>> YEAH.

WHICH WOULD BE RIGHT -- WOULD BE BAD FOR REPUBLICANS BECAUSE IT IS RIGHT AT THE POINT WHERE THE PRIMARIES START.

RIGHT?

AND WHAT KIND OF IMPACT IS IT GOING HAVE THERE?

IS IT GOING WEAKEN THEM?

WILL HE STILL BE NOMINEE?

I DON'T KNOW.

IT MAY NOT BE IN TIME TO AFFECT THE OUTCOME OF THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARIES, BUT DEFINITELY ABLE TO AFFECT A WIN.

EVEN IF HE IS CONVICTED.

IF FACTS COME OUT THAT ARE DEEMED LEGALLY NOT CRIMINAL, BUT THE FACT IS THERE IS GOING BE A NATIONAL DISCUSSION OF WHAT HE DID AND A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE IN DENIAL OF WHAT HE DID.

IT IS NOT GOING BE LIKE THE JANUARY 6 COMMISSION WHERE PEOPLE TUNE OUT AND DON'T WATCH IT.

>> YEAH.

BECAUSE IT IS A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.

WE ARE IN A PLACE WHERE EACH SIDE HAS BEVY OF FACTS, SPHERE OF INFLUENCE.

WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO AS A COUNTRY TO GET BACK TO THE PLACE WHERE WE ALL HAVE THE SAME BASIC STARTING FACTS IN PUBLIC POLICY DEBATES?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

>> YOU DON'T HAVE THE ANSWER?

GET OUT HERE.

>> WE DON'T HAVE WALTER KRONKRITE.

HE WAS ACCUSED OF LIBERAL BIAS BUT HE SAID IF YOU.

I'M WALTER CRONKITE.

WE HAVE TWO MEDIAS, A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT MEDIAS AND SOCIAL MEDIA.

HOW WE HANDLE THAT, I DON'T KNOW.

MERRICK GARLAND DID A SERVICE ANNOUNCING THAT DAVID WEISS WILL BE APPOINTED SPECIAL COUNSEL FOR HUNTER BIDEN.

IF THERE IS SOMETHING THERE, JUSTICE REQUIRES THEY PURSUE IT OR TO THE POINT WHERE THEY SAY NOTHING IS THERE.

THERE NEEDS TO BE SOMETHING DEFINITIVE.

THEY ARE NOT GOING TO GET IT OUT OF REPUBLICAN WEAPONIZATION COMMITTEES.

THAT WILL BE AGENDAIZED.

A FORMAL STATEMENT ONE WAY OR THE OTHER AND PEOPLE WHO WON'T AGREE WITH IT ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

>> AT LEAST YOU GET THE SAME TREATMENT ON THE SURFACE.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

AND THE NOTION THAT IS A PRESIDENT IS NOT A KING AND THEREFORE HIS FAMILY ARE NOT ROYALTY.

>> THAT IS ALL OUR TIME FOR TODAY.

AGAIN, WE COULD TALK ABOUT THIS FOREVER AND EVER AND I'M SURE WE WILL HAVE YOU ON.

>> THANKS AGAIN.

>> THANKS FOR COMING ON THE SHOW.

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT.

STAY TUNED.

STAY INFORMED.